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 God.
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 17:49

I have started this thread as Ben'sthread was being diverted from it's purpose so it would be better to take the conversation branch over here.

Quote:

Paralex, Thu 4 Jun 14:27

To be fair sadindiefreak, I thought it was a fairytale too but I found out very clearly that it wasn't. He is able to transform our lives but He won't do it unless we ask Him.


What actual evidence do you have of the existence of god that led you to believe you found out it was not a fairytale?

Do you honestly think that no children who were being raped by priests prayed to god to make it stop?

Why would an all powerful being with the ability to make it stop do nothing to intervene?

FYI I don't blame god for anything, I don't see any evidence for his existence. I can't blame something I don't believe exists.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 18:18





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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 18:20

I see the evidence for God in creation. I have looked very carefully into scientific theories for the existence of the universe and the solar system and human and animal life. That leads me to the very firm conclusion that there is a designer responsible for it. That doesn't necessarily mean that the designer is the God of the Bible but whoever or whatever it is the whole cosmos and life has not come about by accident or unguided forces.

I see the evidence for God in people I have met. I first saw it in a man called Richard Wormbrandt who was a Czech minister who was tortured for his faith by the communist regime in the 1960's. He was on television and his face radiated with love for God. I then saw it in the face of a schoolmate when I was 16 and he was bold enough to stand alone in the school playground and tell schoolmates about the Christian gospel. I have known many good Christian people in my life and none of them would ever dream of hurting a child. Jesus speaks very seriously in the gospel of Matthew of the grave nature of hurting doing evil to children. There are many things that God allows and I don't have easy answers to why but I do know that it is not God who does the evil it is people under the influence of the spirit of evil that is also very real.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 18:34

But I also see God in my own experience. When I turned 16 I thought that if God was real that he had nothing to do with Jesus or the Bible because I had been sent to Sunday school by my parents who didn't go to church and I thought Jesus was just for keeping the kids from under their parents feet for a while. I was in the Boys Brigade in Glasgow and the minister of the church didn't seem to believe the Bible, nor did any of the BB officers but somehow I wanted to find out if God was real so I asked Him if he was to please show Himself to me. He did through the boy in the playground at school but in some ways it made me feel uncomfortable because if I was going to become a Christian my life and attitudes would have to change.

The boy gave me a wee booklet called Becoming a Christian by John Stott. I was going to throw it away when he wasn't looking but I kept it and for a week or two God impressed Himself upon me in a spiritual sense that I came to the end of my pride and read the wee book, asked Jesus to be my saviour and from that point I was like a new person. I could speak to God and knew he was in my life and the Bible that had been boring before came alive to me.



Post Edited (Thu 04 Jun 18:36)
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 18:51

God phoned GG from an unobtainable number.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 19:17

If you see a creator in the world around you then you don't really know what you are looking at. Douglas Adam's summed it up when he described a puddle looking at the hole it was in and thinking wow, this hole looks like is was designed just for me.

None of what you say is evidence is actual evidence, it's a feeling that you have.
People radiating with the love for god is not evidence of the existence of that god. It's evidence that that person believes it. People of other religions also go through similar experiences. Hindus and Buddhists would make claims very like yours but they can't be correct if you are.

As for what Jesus supposedly said, the Bible is full of Historical errors, Geographical errors and the gospels even contradict themselves at times. Yet you would have us believe that they accurately tell us the words Jesus said.
When they were not written by eye witnesses, were written decades after his death, the earliest being 66 AD, latestst 110AD.
I don't have a problem with the words attributed to Jesus, I am simply questioning the chances of them being accurate.

How do you know that it is not god who does evil?
There are many examples in the bible of gods actions which I would consider to be just that.
Exodus 21, God gives instructions on slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave.
2 Kings 10, God has all the followers of Baal murdered.
Then we have the Flood where everyone on earth is killed apart from one family.
Judges 21, Everyone in Jabeshgilead is murdered apart from the virgin girls who are raped and forced to marry. All under instruction from god.

I could go on all day about the evil committed in the bible at the instructions of god. So if you are correct about there being a god how can you so easily discount him being the source of any evil we see.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 19:48

Perhaps we need to move this thread along again to sadindiefreak v paralex
The Atheist versus the Christian .....Give it a rest guys ....Live and let live
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 19:54

Topic Originator: ipswichpar like | nolike Like: 1
Date: Thu 4 Jun 18:51

''God phoned GG from an unobtainable number.''

Now you tell me. If he didn't want me to call him back, why the hell did he phone me in the first place?



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 20:04

Not that I don't hold all you fellow Pars chaps in high esteem but if this is off topic why are you so interested to join in the melee. Not wishing in any sense to curb your inverted enjoyment but you can butt out at any time and leave me to give some kind of answer to sadindiefreaks quite searching questions.



Post Edited (Thu 04 Jun 20:05)
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Stoo  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 20:05

People who believe in God and people who dont are working in different realms of reality. It doesn't do any good to even discuss it, let it go, life is too short.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 20:26

Sadindiefreak you are looking for proof. You will get none by looking for it. "By grace are you saved through faith" not by getting proof. Oh but you do get a guarantee. I suppose that is a kind of proof but the problem is that you have to exercise some degree of faith before you get the guarantee. I must confess that when I followed the instruction of the wee book which told me to confess my sin and ask Jesus to be my Saviour that I wasn't 100% convinced that I was any different. It told me to tell someone the next day that I had become a Christian so I told my dad who was very negative about the idea and a guy in my BB who ridiculed me and said it wouldn't last. I told the guy at school on the Monday and he said that's great I had to help hom to evangelise the school of which he was the Scripture Union leader. Sometime in these first few days I recognised that I had indeed changed and I had a new power inside me which I recognised through that Spirits interaction with Bible chapters and verses as the Holy Spirit. That Spirit brought the Bible to life for me and although I knew it a bit before it seemed like a new book full of life and power. Jesus came alive in the pages and I knew that His death was for my sins and that I was acceptable to God. I could speak to Him and even at the age of 16 I spent an hour at a time just speaking to God. My experience was exactly the same as many other Christians I met. I was born again by the Spirit of God John chapter 3.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 20:39

Jesus says I have given my Spirit as a guarantee. That is the proof we get but we need to take the step of faith before we get the proof. I came to the point where I was hungry for God and I wanted Him more that the sins that were in my life even at the age of 16.

Correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I know Bhuddism and Hinduism don't actually worship a creator God. Bhudism seeks an inner peace and harmony and Hinduism has several Gods but not I think a creator.

People get themselves in knots about all sorts of convoluted ideas as to the nature of God but in fact it's staring us in the face. The Bible is not a highly complicated book the main points can be understood by a child or an old wifie with no education.

Here it is:- God loves us and does not want us to perish because of our sinful nature, which will happen because we have sinned and fallen short of His standards. So he sent Jesus into the World to die on the cross and pay the price of our sins. When we come to speak to Him in repentance and faith He comes into our hearts by His Holy Spirit and He gives us eternal life. To be honest I don't know how it works but it does. I did that when I was a young lad and it is the best thing I ever did.



Post Edited (Thu 04 Jun 23:42)
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 20:48

When you look into it the Bible is amazingly accurate. The gospels are written by two eye witnesses if Matthew and John are the two disciples of that name that I have no reason to doubt. Luke is a brilliant writer and historian and was very careful to get accurate accounts. Mark being in my opinion John Mark, who accompanied Paul on his first missionary journey was in ideal position to assemble accurated information. They give accounts from different viewpoints on the the life of Jesus and all agree that this man Jesus died on the cross and came back to life and ascended into heaven.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 20:52

Well stoo I'm so glad that somebody took it upon themselves to challenge me when I didn't believe in God because it brought me into a quality of life that I couldn't have dreamed about. Life is too short not to find answers to what life, death and eternity is all about.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 21:19

Exodus 21

There is no indication in the chapter that God is advocating slavery and the slavery that is described is not slavery as we understand it in the American South. These laws are more of an antidote to the abuses that could be perpetrated. It seems more like in most cases a work contract for a certain number of years and are designed to protect the rights of the workers. It doesn't seem an ideal situation but don't forget that many of the human rights that we take for granted are based on Christian ethics and and the abolition of slavery in the UK was championed by a Christian Member of Parliament, William Wilberforce. It is stretching things a little to suggest that a man was being commanded to sell his daughter as a sex slave. Perhaps there were situations in the ancient middle east where fathers were seeking to make ends meet by seeking a suitable attachment for his daughter with a wealthy landowner and the provisions of this chapter are to protect the interests of the woman in the situation, not to advocate the practice. Our country has been blessed by the practice of Christian marriage but where that doesn't happen now our Government that is historically based on Christian concepts would seek to uphold the rights of men and women equally.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 21:33

2 Kings 10

God has all the followers of Baal murdered.
Well, He will have you and me murdered too. People are dying every day. If God has given us life He has the right to take it away. The wages of sin is death. At the time of the flood God looked at all He had made and saw that the people He had made had descended into gross evil. The type of people that you so rightly condemned earlier sadindiefreak, those who do harm to children. It would be better for them said Jesus as if they had not been born. Like you perhaps, I don't know why I have been born into a corrupt world where men and women do evil things and where I am part of that becausemy sins too cause me to fall short of Gods requirements. God can choose to say that He's had enough and finish our lives here and He has done that in the past. People have the capacity to do indescribable acts of evil and whose to say, given the circumstances and opportunity that we wouldn't do them too. So we have a problem and it's pur problem not God's. But He has given us a way out.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 22:19

I think this thread is illustrating perfectly why people believe in God. Brainwashing. They were missing something in their lives and allow themselves to become brainwashed by this nonsense. Many people do have a void in their lives and this fills it for them. I don't mind it, but the issue I have is that they all try and shove it down your throat. They look for the weak, the helpless and they use their techniques to reel them in
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 23:01

No need for you to read this thread redstarpar. I'm replying to sadindiefreak, nobody else. He has put questions to me to answer and I'm doing that. It's off topic, no need for anyone else to chip in especially if they are liable to find things not to their taste.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 23:19

Judges chapter 21

To get the context we have to read a few chapters before 21. There was a big problem. Some of the men of Gibeah raped a woman and abused her to the point that she died. This was rightly seen as an outrage in Israel. The eleven tribes of Israel demanded that those responsible should be handed over for punishment but the tribe of Benjamin to whom the men of Gibeah belonged refused to hand them over. So a war took place with several battles. In the course of the war many of the women of Benjamin were killed and the tribe of Benjamin were left with no women because the other tribes of Israel had taken out a solemn vow not to let their women marry into the tribe of Benjamin. The men of Jabesh Gilead had not joined in the battles and it seems that they had forfeited some rights because of that. They were tricked into a situation where their young women were given to the young men of Benjamin. There is no indication that God gave his assent to this arrangement and there is no indication that the young ladies were abused in the situation. They were taken into arranged marriages which perpetuated the tribe of Benjamin which may in fact have worked out for the young ladies. Not a situation that we in our modern western Christian culture, heavily influenced by Christian values would like but these were different cultures and different times.



Post Edited (Fri 05 Jun 11:45)
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 23:37

The earlier points that you make about children being abused and wishing it to stop emphasises quite plainly that we are living in a seriously corrupt world that badly needs to be fixed. By all accounts it's happening right now by parents and relatives of children who are being abused in lockdown. The problem is with us, not God. We human beings are the ones who are perpetrating the evil, not God. He has given us free will to choose between right and wrong and we have a great capacity for choosing wrong. I am no fan of established religion and neither was Jesus but given the right circumstances and inclinations we could be shocked as to the depths of depravity that we might be capable of. We might look up to God and blame Him for not intervening but if He did He would be removing our right to choose, for good or evil. We all have scars of some sort to carry through our lives. Our experience in this world is transitory. There is another world where there will be no sin and no evil and where all wrongs will be righted and no more tears.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 23:48

Quote:

Paralex, Thu 4 Jun 23:01

No need for you to read this thread redstarpar. I'm replying to sadindiefreak, nobody else. He has put questions to me to answer and I'm doing that. It's off topic, no need for anyone else to chip in especially if they are liable to find things not to their taste.


Take this to a private chat then, rather than bashing your Bible on a public forum.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 00:39

There is a creator god in Hinduism. Brahma.
Some branches of Hinduism believe it is Vishnu who came to Earth in the form of Krishna but generally it is Brahma.

As for requiring faith before you will get proof, I was Christian for 14 years before I became atheist as I saw no proof. Why did I not see any?
On the multiple Alpha courses and Bible study I have gone to I have heard many many stories of people who didn't believe finding proof before having faith. Why not me?

"God doesn't want us to fail" One of the properties Christian's assign to god is omniscience. He knows what is going to happen before it does. He has set us up to fail as he already knows we will.
What is a sin? Is breaking a commandment a sin? Honour they father and mother, but what is your father rapes you?
You shall have no other gods before me?
What about all the people on the planet who simply by an accident of where they are born and a different religion. They are now condemned to eternal torture through no fault of their own.
Something and omniscient being already knows.

God is also omnibenevolant and omnipotent (all good and all powerful) why can't he just forgive us? Why the convoluted nonsense of sacrificing himself to himself in order for us to be forgiven.
It's not even like he remained dead, he came back 3 days later. So a minor inconvenience for an all knowing all powerful being.

The question of who wrote the gospels.
It certainly was not Matthew Mark Luke and John.
None of them spoke Greek and all the gospels were originally written in Greek.
There is much more evidence that they are not eye witness accounts but I really don't feel the need to go further as not being able to speak the language they are composed in should be more than enough.

Exodus 21.
Yes there are bits in there about indentured servitude and working for a certain time.
This part only applies to the "children of Israel"
Every other people held as slaves was for life.
Their children then became slaves.
I absolutely suggest you reread this as there is no doubt these are instructions on how to treat your slaves.
These passages were used in the slave states in America as justification for what they were doing.
Surely an all knowing being would know this was going to happen and not allow it.

"God has given us life, he has the right to take it away"
Great, then why doesn't he, like in the example of child raping priests. Why doesn't he just smite them?
You may say they will face judgement when they die. I would maybe even be happy if that were the case but all they have to do is repent and ask for forgiveness and they get off scott free. But me who can't just simply make myself believe something I am to be tortured for eternity.

Judges 21
"Different cultures different times."
Again and omniscient god would know that this is not acceptable behaviour.
Virgin girls have their whole families massacred and are then forced into marriage with the very people who committed the genocide.
How as a Christian can you justify these actions done in gods name.

It just seems I have much higher moral standards than god.
If I'm wrong and he does exist he is not worthy on worship as he is morally repugnant.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 00:59

I never took it here BigJ it was sadindiefreak. But obviously you were interested enough to tune in.



Post Edited (Fri 05 Jun 01:00)
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 01:20

These are good points that you raise sadindiefreak and there are many things that challenge our faith as we go through life. I find the Bible quite honest about that too. Look at the Book of Job. I suppose the Christian who perseveres has the overriding conviction that through all the turmoil and pain that God is with them in it and presumably like Job they have experienced the overwhelming love of God that is powerful and gives them strength to keep going. Jesus went to the cross for the joy that was set before Him and a Christian experiences that joy through the pain. If this life wasn't difficult and didn't test our faith how else would God be able to produce people of Christian character that he wants to be with Him in heaven. I don't know why there are so many dilemmas in life but I do know that God loves me and has helped me through some very painful times. There is a mighty battle between good and evil and I believe that Jesus will finally deal with Satan when He returns.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 01:32

God just can't just forgive us because He wants people to come to Him of their own free will and for them to be aware of their sinfulness. The Bible speaks of humanity in it's natural state being at emnity with God. That barrier is broken down when we come to Jesus in repentance and faith. We then find that we are friends with God and have a loving relationship with Him. As I said before I don't the mechanism of how a man dying 2000 years ago makes all the difference for me but it does. It works.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 01:58

Do you actually understand what is happening in Job?

It's probably one of the most abhorrent things god does in the bible.

There is some swearing in this cartoon if you can get past that this is an excellent portrayal of the story.
https://youtu.be/QVgZqnsytJI
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 02:19

Quote:

red-star-par, Thu 4 Jun 22:19

I think this thread is illustrating perfectly why people believe in God. Brainwashing. They were missing something in their lives and allow themselves to become brainwashed by this nonsense. Many people do have a void in their lives and this fills it for them. I don't mind it, but the issue I have is that they all try and shove it down your throat. They look for the weak, the helpless and they use their techniques to reel them in


Utter garbage!

Now Im going back to my popcorn.

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 09:16

Each to their own.
I personally think it’s a load of bollocks but if faith makes people happy then go for it.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 11:27

We are seeing with different eyes sadindiefreak. The book of Job is one of the most glorious pieces of literature ever written. The mighty God who has given us all life admires and trusts this man Job to face him up to Satan himself. What God produces in him is spiritual character that was not just for this world but would last for eternity. Through his great suffering Job was still able to trust God and not curse Him and die as his wife suggested. In the course of his suffering he comes out with some of the greatest statements in scripture. I know that my redeemer lives, when he has tried me I shall come forth as gold. He foreshadows Gods champion Jesus. Behold the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. Give your heart to Jesus, you will never regret. Bearing shame and scoffing rude in my place condemned He stood, sealed my pardon with His blood, hallelujah what a Saviour.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 11:34

Quote:

Paralex, Fri 5 Jun 11:27

We are seeing with different eyes sadindiefreak. The book of Job is one of the most glorious pieces of literature ever written. The mighty God who has given us all life admires and trusts this man Job to face him up to Satan himself. What God produces in him is spiritual character that was not just for this world but would last for eternity. Through his great suffering Job was still able to trust God and not curse Him and die as his wife suggested. In the course of his suffering he comes out with some of the greatest statements in scripture. I know that my redeemer lives, when he has tried me I shall come forth as gold. He foreshadows Gods champion Jesus. Behold the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. Give your heart to Jesus, you will never regret. Bearing shame and scoffing rude in my place condemned He stood, sealed my pardon with His blood, hallelujah what a Saviour.


Fairy story all the same
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 13:33

Sure Job is probably the most well written book of the bible and is a classic piece of literature.
The story itself is utterly vile.
What wrong did Jobs children do that they deserved to die. Over a bet god had with the devil.
It's absolutely sick.
If you think this is ok I would actually question your moral compass.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 14:18

Quote:

EEP, Fri 5 Jun 09:16

Each to their own.
I personally think it’s a load of bollocks but if faith makes people happy then go for it.


Nah **** that, religion is indeed bollocks but I don't subscribe to the train of thought that if it makes you happy then just batter on.
Being a nonce made Jimmy Saville happy and letting him batter on ruined loads of childhoods through sexual abuse.


Just like the church.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 14:24

It's a fact of life sadindiefreak that we could all be taken away from this life at any time. Job's sons did not ultimately owe their life to Job but to God because He is the source of all life. We are all told to be ready for we don't know when our lives may be required of us. That's why it's best to place our lives into His care. God gives and God takes away said Job, I trusted Him when my life was easy, I will trust Him in my grief. We are all going to die because we are all sinners and after death we will be required to give an account of how we have lived to God but if we have Jesus as our advocate He will see us through. That is the gospel, that is the good news. One of my best friends had a son and two daughters. He lost both his daughters in the space of a few years. He still loves God and trusts that his daughters are far safer now than they ever were down here. There was a man from my area of Glasgow who penned the lines, I trace the rainbow through the rain and feel the promise is not vain that life shall endless be. The Christian gospel can give powerful hope to all of us because we all face the day of our death and the day and hour is in the providence of God, whether we like it or not.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 14:28

Quote:

Grant, Fri 5 Jun 14:18

Just like the church.


Not all churches but it is a bigger problem than people imagine.
Everyone always associates it with the Catholic church but last year in America there were more cases of sexual abuse against children in Evangelical churches.
So people who suggest allowing priests to marry would resolve the issue are wrong since Evangelical ministers tend to be married.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 14:32

Quote:

Grant, Fri 5 Jun 14:18

Quote:

EEP, Fri 5 Jun 09:16

Each to their own.
I personally think it’s a load of bollocks but if faith makes people happy then go for it.


Nah **** that, religion is indeed bollocks but I don't subscribe to the train of thought that if it makes you happy then just batter on.
Being a nonce made Jimmy Saville happy and letting him batter on ruined loads of childhoods through sexual abuse.


Just like the church.


You mean the whole church Grant or a specific denomination or church age or specific people within different denominations. Do you include Paralex and me in there too?

This sort of garbage is precisely why I stopped commenting in depth on religios threads. It just brings out the bigots on both sides of the argument.

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 14:43

Hope you are not calling me bigoted on this issue PARrot.
I deal only on actual facts.

Any situation where adults are left alone with kids can be exploited by sexual predators.
Church if just one example, youth clubs, scouts, football teams, you name it all have seen instances of abuse.

Churches and the Catholic church in particular are however guilty of hiding these things when they come to light.
Even moving priests to other parishes where they would go on to continue the abuse.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 14:51

Are we not due an appearance of god this year with how everything is going? Perhaps the discovery of an ancient, previously submerged city rising from the seas and the Great tentacled Lord making his maddening presence known to his insane followers? Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 14:57

That's why it is important to choose your church carefully. These abuses are apparently rife in all walks of life, and we are told being perpetrated in locked down houses right now. All people are prone to sin but as I said Jesus warns very clearly about sin against children. I have been a member of an evangelical church in Glasgow since I was 16 and over all the years there has never been even a hint of any sexual wrongdoing of any kind. My involvement with childrens camps and missions in Scotland, England and China has witnessed these being carried out with the greatest integrity and care for the children and young adults. Some football managers had the great gift of being great judges of character regarding ha young players. People need to exercise similar discernment when sizing up ministers and churches.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 14:57

Quote:

sadindiefreak, Fri 5 Jun 14:43

Hope you are not calling me bigoted on this issue PARrot.
I deal only on actual facts.

Any situation where adults are left alone with kids can be exploited by sexual predators.
Church if just one example, youth clubs, scouts, football teams, you name it all have seen instances of abuse.

Churches and the Catholic church in particular are however guilty of hiding these things when they come to light.
Even moving priests to other parishes where they would go on to continue the abuse.


No I certainly wasnt referring to you. Im outa here now. Its getting madder by the minute



Post Edited (Fri 05 Jun 14:58)
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Thaipar  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 14:58

If God had a name what would it be?
And would you call it to his face?
If you were faced with Him in all His glory
What would you ask if you had just one questionIf God had a name what would it be?
And would you call it to his face?
If you were faced with Him in all His glory
What would you ask if you had just one question?

And yeah, yeah, God is great
Yeah, yeah, God is good
And yeah, yeah, yeah-yeah-yeah

What if God was one of us?
Just a slob like one of us
Just a stranger on the bus
Tryin' to make his way home?

If God had a face what would it look like?
And would you want to see if, seeing meant
That you would have to believe in things like heaven
And in Jesus and the saints, and all the prophets?

And yeah, yeah, God is great
Yeah, yeah, God is good
And yeah, yeah, yeah-yeah-yeah

What if God was one of us?
Just a slob like one of us
Just a stranger on the bus
Tryin' to make his way home?

Just tryin' to make his way home
Like back up to heaven all alone
Nobody callin' on the phone
'Cept for the Pope maybe in Rome

And yeah, yeah, God is great
Yeah, yeah, God is good
And yeah, yeah, yeah-yeah-yeah

What if God was one of us?
Just a slob like one of us
Just a stranger on the bus
Tryin' to make his way home?

Just tryin' to make his way home
Like a holy rolling stone
Back up to heaven all alone
Just tryin' to make his way home
Nobody callin' on the phone
'Cept for the Pope maybe in Rome



And yeah, yeah, God is great
Yeah, yeah, God is good
And yeah, yeah, yeah-yeah-yeah

What if God was one of us?
Just a slob like one of us
Just a stranger on the bus
Tryin' to make his way home?

If God had a face what would it look like?
And would you want to see if, seeing meant
That you would have to believe in things like heaven
And in Jesus and the saints, and all the prophets?

And yeah, yeah, God is great
Yeah, yeah, God is good
And yeah, yeah, yeah-yeah-yeah

What if God was one of us?
Just a slob like one of us
Just a stranger on the bus
Tryin' to make his way home?

Just tryin' to make his way home
Like back up to heaven all alone
Nobody callin' on the phone
'Cept for the Pope maybe in Rome

And yeah, yeah, God is great
Yeah, yeah, God is good
And yeah, yeah, yeah-yeah-yeah

What if God was one of us?
Just a slob like one of us
Just a stranger on the bus
Tryin' to make his way home?

Just tryin' to make his way home
Like a holy rolling stone
Back up to heaven all alone
Just tryin' to make his way home
Nobody callin' on the phone
'Cept for the Pope maybe in Rome

Please don't book me Admin, it will ruin my life.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 20:11

[Post Deleted] - Personal attack on another subscriber
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 20:38

[Post Deleted] - Whinging
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 21:01

Amen and goodnight to all my beloved Pars fans.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 21:16

Shalom to your good self Paralex!
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 22:15

Quote:

BigJPar, Thu 4 Jun 23:48

Quote:

Paralex, Thu 4 Jun 23:01

No need for you to read this thread redstarpar. I'm replying to sadindiefreak, nobody else. He has put questions to me to answer and I'm doing that. It's off topic, no need for anyone else to chip in especially if they are liable to find things not to their taste.


Take this to a private chat then, rather than bashing your Bible on a public forum.


This comment is ridiculous mate.

1. You know what the thread is about.

2. Who are you to decide what people talk about?

3. Just don't f*****g open the thread!

If you only turn up to moan then do it elsewhere
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 22:34

Shalom to you AAPS...🀞
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 22:45

Never got people who post on threads asking people to go elsewhere to comment on things.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 22:59

Quote:

Paralex, Fri 5 Jun 14:57

That's why it is important to choose your church carefully..


Aye, don't choose any at all.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Sat 6 Jun 00:48

The name of your 5h1tlord God isYahmeh, the name of a fusion of a mesopotamian 'Weh' and Sumerian 'Ya'. Chritians are some of the most deluded people on earth imo. Imagine believing in an entity that causes global strife, sits back as his children murder each other and then is happy branches of his faith rape children.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sat 6 Jun 01:40

Quote:

Andrew283, Sat 6 Jun 00:48

The name of your 5h1tlord God isYahmeh, the name of a fusion of a mesopotamian 'Weh' and Sumerian 'Ya'. Chritians are some of the most deluded people on earth imo. Imagine believing in an entity that causes global strife, sits back as his children murder each other and then is happy branches of his faith rape children.


You mean YHWH. Moses asked him his name. He said, "I am who I am, tell them I am sent you". YHWH being Hebrew for I am.
This is ultimately why Jesus was charged with blasphemy as he told the sanhedrin, "Truly Truly I tell you, before Abraham was, I am." Litteraly he said he was God.

The rest of your post doesn't merit a response.



Post Edited (Sat 06 Jun 01:46)
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Sat 6 Jun 02:03

Quote:

PARrot, Sat 6 Jun 01:40

Quote:

Andrew283, Sat 6 Jun 00:48

The name of your 5h1tlord God isYahmeh, the name of a fusion of a mesopotamian 'Weh' and Sumerian 'Ya'. Chritians are some of the most deluded people on earth imo. Imagine believing in an entity that causes global strife, sits back as his children murder each other and then is happy branches of his faith rape children.

.

The rest of your post doesn't merit a response.



He's not wrong though is he.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sat 6 Jun 14:59

Quote:

Grant, Sat 6 Jun 02:03

Quote:

PARrot, Sat 6 Jun 01:40

Quote:

Andrew283, Sat 6 Jun 00:48

The name of your 5h1tlord God isYahmeh, the name of a fusion of a mesopotamian 'Weh' and Sumerian 'Ya'. Chritians are some of the most deluded people on earth imo. Imagine believing in an entity that causes global strife, sits back as his children murder each other and then is happy branches of his faith rape children.

.

The rest of your post doesn't merit a response.



He's not wrong though is he.


He couldnt be more wrong.

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: halbe  
Date:   Sun 7 Jun 15:34

Topic Originator: PARrot | Like: 1
Date: Fri 5 Jun 14:32

This sort of garbage is precisely why I stopped commenting in depth on religious threads. It just brings out the bigots on both sides of the argument.



Gave up after sadinediefreaks first 30000 posts with the same argument- decided sticking pins in my eyes more fun that wading through all this again although I know for him its all deeply personal.

Looking at some of the comments on this thread the bigots are only one side.


Quote:

Andrew283, Sat 6 Jun 00:48

The name of your 5h1tlord God isYahmeh,



Nobody even objects to this - that's tolerance.


Anyway looking forward to hearing their views on Islam at some point and Andrew283's name for Allah - suspect they would need to grow a pair before they get into that though.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Stoo  
Date:   Tue 9 Jun 15:59

Telt ye's.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 9 Jun 18:32

Quote :-
Topic Originator: Paralex like | nolike
Date: Thu 4 Jun 20:04

Not that I don't hold all you fellow Pars chaps in high esteem but if this is off topic why are you so interested to join in the melee. Not wishing in any sense to curb your inverted enjoyment but you can butt out at any time and leave me to give some kind of answer to sadindiefreaks quite searching questions.


Honest question Paralex ...No hidden agenda ... just curious ... and I realise it is very topical just now but no offence to anyone intended

Was Jesus black ?
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Tue 9 Jun 18:41

Of course Jesus was black
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh  
Date:   Tue 9 Jun 20:46

I don't know what colour Jesus was, but I do know that he can't stand christians. Hundreds of millions of the buggers trolling him with crosses round their necks.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: MikeyLeonard  
Date:   Tue 9 Jun 21:14

Quote:

red-star-par, Tue 9 Jun 18:41

Of course Jesus was black


No, jesus was Batman.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Tue 9 Jun 21:18

Surely batman was Jesus... πŸ€”



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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: MikeyLeonard  
Date:   Tue 9 Jun 21:20

That was Bruce Wayne.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Tue 9 Jun 21:22

Jesus was Bruce Wayne?
Well now I'm totally confused πŸ˜•



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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Tue 9 Jun 21:26

I used to think Hamish French my lord was god!
All this absolute nonesense about God does my nut in. Where is god? What is he doing to help us? What is he doing to help his cult of followers at this moment?
NOTHING as he or she is not real.... I honestly don’t understand how people look to god now?
There’s no churches open anyway but surely god would have made these churches safe for his followers?
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Wed 10 Jun 02:52

Quote:

Buspasspar, Tue 9 Jun 18:32

Quote :-
Topic Originator: Paralex like | nolike
Date: Thu 4 Jun 20:04

Not that I don't hold all you fellow Pars chaps in high esteem but if this is off topic why are you so interested to join in the melee. Not wishing in any sense to curb your inverted enjoyment but you can butt out at any time and leave me to give some kind of answer to sadindiefreaks quite searching questions.


Honest question Paralex ...No hidden agenda ... just curious ... and I realise it is very topical just now but no offence to anyone intended

Was Jesus black ?


No. He wasn't black. He was a person of colour. Most likely light brown. Black enough to pi55 off right wing evangelicals and mormons though.

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Wed 10 Jun 04:28

I don't believe in God per se. I am not a religious man. Seeing the vicious hatred and persecution that religion ignited as I grew up in Scotland totally turned me against all faiths.

That said, I do believe the Quakers come closest to my sense of being. They maintain that there is a living, dynamic, spiritual presence at work in the world which is both within us and outside of us.

The Buddhists actually are quite similar in that they don't believe in a personal god either. To them, nothing is fixed or permanent and that change is always possible.

We have all experienced that sense of wonderment at some time or other, whether it is when we are walking on the hills, or finding a peaceful spot in the garden on a summer's day or simply watching a child break into a smile. It is a light that sparks inside of us.

To me, it is not about some supreme being who is looking over us or turning up habitually to a church, a kirk, a mosque or a synagogue. It is simply about appreciating what is around you today, being kind and engaging in what life has to offer you.



Post Edited (Wed 10 Jun 05:03)
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Wed 10 Jun 08:24

Good post OzPar and very similar to my own outlook and feelings

I have nothing against anyone who believes in his god and it pleases me that their believe gives them comfort

I was brought up in the early 50's and attended Kincardine church every Sunday with my Gran then Sunday school after Church ...I still have the attendance prize books :)
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Wed 10 Jun 17:45

One of the Elders at a church in Glasgow where I attended an Alpha course was brought up in a Quaker household.
The violence he talked about children suffering from their parents in the Quaker faith was brutal. All as punishment for very small things.
From the outside they seem nice behind closed doors it is a savage environment.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: helensburghpar  
Date:   Wed 10 Jun 19:13

Don't know much about Quakers. Their porridge oats are decent though.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Tue 16 Jun 20:35

Having read some of the previous threads on this forum it's obvious that while so many of you say that you don't believe in God, that you can't somehow get Him out of your minds. Maybe deep down you want it to be true that there is a God because this life is pretty meaningless if we just live and die and then everything ends as if we had never existed. If you don't recognise that there is a God, surely you can see quite plainly that there is a Devil, a powerful spirit of evil that influences people to do unspeakably wicked things to other human beings. You seem to want to blame God for all the evils in the world without acknowledging the fact that there is also an evil spirit who has contaminated all of human life, including you and me. Why do evil things happen? Is it because God does it? No, it's because people have allowed themselves to be contaminated by evil that leads to death and disease and covid-19. Is there an answer? Yes God has provided a way out ( as outlined earlier in this thread). Is life meaningless? Dear fellow Pars fans, it doesn't need to be.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: shrek par  
Date:   Tue 16 Jun 23:06

I'm glad you have faith and find comfort in it. I've always been led to believe it was a personal thing and everyone's version differs. To you, your faith appears to fulfil and gives meaning to your life whereas others may see your posts as a tad overzealous, pontificating and even misguided. Your point has been made and maybe it's time to share less with those such as myself who don't share or find any of your beliefs or faith remotely comforting and borderline questionable in their content.

Admin.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Tue 16 Jun 23:25

Christian faith is not something you make up yourself and it's certainly not my version. Maybe what Jesus said about Himself is true and that through Him we find our way to God. He tells Christians to go out into the world and preach the gospel. It just occurred to me that from some of the posts on here that some people want to know if God exists. I am just telling them that Satan exists too and our involvement with him has led to all our troubles including coronavirus
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: shrek par  
Date:   Tue 16 Jun 23:39

I was being generous in the fact I was allowing that these were your interpretations of the learnings. Your latest post would suggest you are merely spouting forth the "faith " you have learned rote and blindly from without your own interpretation? That these are the cornerstones that you base your life on yet have chosen not to relate your own thoughts and experiences to whilst learning?
Then all you have said thus far is devoid of value.

Admin.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Tue 16 Jun 23:48

Religion is the cause of war... FACT!
Believe what you want but all war comes down to religion!
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: dd23  
Date:   Tue 16 Jun 23:51

Quote:

EEP, Tue 16 Jun 23:48

Religion is the cause of war... FACT!
Believe what you want but all war comes down to religion!


Apart from the first world war.
And the second world war.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Wed 17 Jun 01:33

Quote:

EEP, Tue 16 Jun 23:48

Religion is the cause of war... FACT!
Believe what you want but all war comes down to religion!


Utter pihs!

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Wed 17 Jun 01:34

If you accept the notion of 'Satan' then you will require an execution squad of some description.

It is obvious that given the weakness in mankind which you have outlined that there will always be those who choose the wrong path. Some may be taken back into the fold but the recalcitrant will have to be eliminated. That was pretty much the rhetoric we heard from professed Christians Bush and Blair as a justification for invading Iraq outwith UN approval. To remove evil from the world.

Man creates 'God' in his own image: and 'Satan' too. We'd find it hard to kill otherwise.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Wed 17 Jun 01:55

Not at all Shrek. The fact is that I discovered, in contrast to what some people were trying to teach me and in my own experience, that what the Bible teaches about Jesus is true. Learning stuff by rote doesn't change a person's heart, it only affects the brain. Jesus doesn't just wash our brains, He cleans up our whole life.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: shrek par  
Date:   Wed 17 Jun 02:24

Completely contradictory statement to what you disagreed with initially. Make your mind up, you either have or have not thought or interpreted for yourself to suit your needs?

Admin.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Wed 17 Jun 12:56

My needs or what I perceive them to be are incidental. I have been convinced that what Jesus said about Himself is true because I have experienced it working out in my life and in the lives of others. One of the Psalms says taste and see that God is good. It's not head knowledge or external religion. God comes into our lives and becomes part of our experience.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: shrek par  
Date:   Wed 17 Jun 13:20

Your answers are like the "good" book itself, vague and contradictory.

Admin.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Wed 17 Jun 17:18

As far as what we need to know to get our lives right with God, the Bible is not in the least vague. It is so straightforward that a child could understand it.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Wed 17 Jun 22:32

Paralex just go and do one? Find your god or whatever pihs you come up with.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Wed 17 Jun 22:55

Paralex,

I'll be more direct about a question you declined to answer earlier:

Did you, or did you not, support the invasion of Iraq by American and British troops to topple the government of Saddam Hussein?
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Thu 18 Jun 04:31

Quote:

EEP, Wed 17 Jun 22:32

Paralex just go and do one? Find your god or whatever pihs you come up with.


Paralex was invited to comment in this thread by the OP. You were not. Why would you get involved in a debate that has nothing to do with you personally, and tell the key participant to, "Do one"?

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Thu 18 Jun 04:44

Quote:

sammer, Wed 17 Jun 01:34

If you accept the notion of 'Satan' then you will require an execution squad of some description.

It is obvious that given the weakness in mankind which you have outlined that there will always be those who choose the wrong path. Some may be taken back into the fold but the recalcitrant will have to be eliminated. That was pretty much the rhetoric we heard from professed Christians Bush and Blair as a justification for invading Iraq outwith UN approval. To remove evil from the world.

Man creates 'God' in his own image: and 'Satan' too. We'd find it hard to kill otherwise.


Satan was not made in God's image. Only Man was made in God's image. Both male and female. Satan is an angel, not Man.
Exp...https://answersingenesis.org/genesis/what-is-image-of-god/

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Thu 18 Jun 10:10

From an atheist perspective both were created in man's image though Parrott.

And it is easy to see why we might think that - they are both remarkably human-like in their motivations.

The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel the warmth.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Thu 18 Jun 11:57

Well Sammer, I very much doubt that I would take any guidance from George Bush or Tony Blair about my philosophy regarding war and peace. I am instructed by the words " as much as it is in your power to do so, live peacably with all".



Post Edited (Thu 18 Jun 11:58)
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Thu 18 Jun 16:29

Quote:

Paralex, Thu 18 Jun 11:57

Well Sammer, I very much doubt that I would take any guidance from George Bush or Tony Blair about my philosophy regarding war and peace. I am instructed by the words " as much as it is in your power to do so, live peacably with all".


It looks to me like Ritchie had returned and been super charged. πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ‘
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Thu 18 Jun 20:06

In the beginning was matter and energy which blew itself into space forming the planets and our solar system, which finely tuned itself to incredibly fine parameters to be able to support life. Life came about from chemicals which by an unguided, undirected process of evolution acting on random variations based on natural selection and mutations produced all of the animals we now see and man became the most successful in this process and then some of the weakest of them conceived of God and Satan because they foolishly thought that good and evil existed and couldn't understand how they came about.

It takes an awful lot of faith to be an atheist, much more in fact than to believe in a powerful transcendent non material mind as the creator and upholder of the universe.



Post Edited (Thu 18 Jun 20:11)
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Thu 18 Jun 23:49

Paralex wtf are you on about? Can you tell that god to open up car showrooms so I can buy a car for my work?.... I’m praying with whatever you want fellow god manπŸ˜€πŸ€·πŸ»β€β™‚οΈπŸ€·πŸ»β€β™‚οΈπŸ€·πŸ»β€β™‚οΈ
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Fri 19 Jun 01:00

Maybe went over your head EEP but signed up atheists should get the drift.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Fri 19 Jun 04:01

Quote:

EEP, Thu 18 Jun 23:49

Paralex wtf are you on about? Can you tell that god to open up car showrooms so I can buy a car for my work?.... I’m praying with whatever you want fellow god manπŸ˜€πŸ€·πŸ»β€β™‚οΈπŸ€·πŸ»β€β™‚οΈπŸ€·πŸ»β€β™‚οΈ


If he doesn't get you a car try praying for a motorbike. God apparently favours motorbikes. He gave one to Moses....Moses Triumph was heard throughout Israel. Exodus 32:18
Mind you it could have been a Triumph Herald.
Also He drove Adam and Eve out the Garden of Eden in a Fury (I wonder if the Plymouth Brethern recommended that), and in Acts 5:12 the apostles were all in one Accord. Hope they didnae get pulled over. 12 folk in a Honda canny be legal!
Seems like he's intae cars too EEP. Keep up the prayers - ye nivver know!

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Fri 19 Jun 10:49

And if you want to get into the Latin you'll get plenty Fiats and there's lots of Fords too, one more river to cross and all that. But alas no Maseratis or Chevrolets.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Fri 19 Jun 23:56

Oh a wee lovers guide to god between paralex and parrot! Get a room u 2 or does the bible not allow itπŸ˜…πŸ˜…
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sat 20 Jun 05:31

Quote:

EEP, Fri 19 Jun 23:56

Oh a wee lovers guide to god between paralex and parrot! Get a room u 2 or does the bible not allow itπŸ˜…πŸ˜…

Awe EEP are you feeling missed out. We love you to pal....honest!

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