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 Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu  
Date:   Tue 14 Jul 21:42

BRE has been stopped by police , handcuffed and taser pointed at him.
A footballer is seeking legal advice after being stopped by police and handcuffed.

Ben Richards-Everton, who plays for Bradford City, was confronted by officers as he left a shop in Sutton Coldfield, near Birmingham.

In a video filmed by his girlfriend he is seen asking why he is being handcuffed and why an officer is holding a Taser.

West Midlands Police said they detained the car driver while officers carried out a search as the number plate flagged up warning markers for drugs and firearms.

"Nothing was found in the car and it’s now thought that the number plates, which sparked the suspicion, are cloned.

"Given the intelligence around potential firearms one of the officers drew a Taser. It was put away shortly after without being used," they said.

Mr Richards-Everton told the BBC he had had the car for three weeks when the incident happened in June and it was bought via a reputable firm. He's now considering making a formal complaint against police.

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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: wetherby  
Date:   Tue 14 Jul 22:29

Saw the report on the news ( Yorkshire) at tea time. He was sporting quite a beard.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: parfection  
Date:   Tue 14 Jul 23:40

Poor guy. I’ve never suffered the indignity of wrongful arrest, but I have had my number plate cloned and used in an armed robbery. It is scary when you get the dreaded knock at the door.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Tue 14 Jul 23:55

Quote:

parfection, Tue 14 Jul 23:40

Poor guy. I’ve never suffered the indignity of wrongful arrest, but I have had my number plate cloned and used in an armed robbery. It is scary when you get the dreaded knock at the door.

Oh aye? How were you dreading the knock at the door? If your number plate was cloned and used in an armed robbery, then surely you would know nowt about it, and so you wouldn't be dreading any knock at the door? The wording of your statement seems to suggest you were waiting for the Police to call. I put it to you sir, that you were indeed, the mastermind behind this criminal endeavour
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: Frank Butchers LoveHandles  
Date:   Wed 15 Jul 00:41

Quote:

red-star-par, Tue 14 Jul 23:55

Quote:

parfection, Tue 14 Jul 23:40

Poor guy. I’ve never suffered the indignity of wrongful arrest, but I have had my number plate cloned and used in an armed robbery. It is scary when you get the dreaded knock at the door.

Oh aye? How were you dreading the knock at the door? If your number plate was cloned and used in an armed robbery, then surely you would know nowt about it, and so you wouldn't be dreading any knock at the door? The wording of your statement seems to suggest you were waiting for the Police to call. I put it to you sir, that you were indeed, the mastermind behind this criminal endeavour


Agreed he sounds guilty as charged.

Awight Pat!
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: parfection  
Date:   Wed 15 Jul 00:54

Oh all right - I admit it. Actually the dreaded knock was a bit of poetic licence - my wife had just left the house when the police car drew up. She spotted them and hurried back, fearful that something had happened either to me or to our daughter. Mercifully no guns or tasers were involved. The police were quickly able to check that we were at work at the time of the robbery (including cctv of our car in the car park) - The robbery took place in England.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Wed 15 Jul 01:50

Had it all planned out didn't you? And you would have gotten away it if it wasn't for that pesky Red-Star.

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: average white par  
Date:   Wed 15 Jul 09:56

Trust me, Pars fans... I've been an occasional passenger in parfection's car, and aside from a dubious dark brown stain on the back seat, a lingering coppery metallic smell and his somewhat unnerving tendency to burst suddenly into the German language, I always found it to be be a safe and pleasurable experience...

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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: parfection  
Date:   Wed 15 Jul 10:09

Thanks awp. I’m going to question the brown stain and the coppery smell - I’m happy to be guilty of the German outbursts - and happy to know that it was a pleasurable experience. Hope you’re well buddy 😀.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu  
Date:   Wed 15 Jul 10:12

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-birmingham-53411354/footballer-demands-answers-as-he-s-handcuffed-by-police

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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: JTH123  
Date:   Wed 15 Jul 10:18

What a nightmare for the lad.
I mean BRE not AWP btw.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Wed 15 Jul 10:40

Who'd be a police officer? You're told that the car in front is connected to drug and firearm offences and it's your duty to stop the car and question the driver. BRE deserves sympathy because of the inconvenience and distress caused to him but the bad guys in this story are the scumbags who cloned his regie plates not the police.

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 15 Jul 10:46

Sorry TOWK I agree to an extent on who the villains of the piece are but the cops should have been able to work out quite quickly he wasn't involved.

No need to cuff him if he's unarmed and not being belligerent.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Wed 15 Jul 10:54

"Who'd be a police officer? You're told that the car in front is connected to drug and firearm offences and it's your duty to stop the car and question the driver."

It's this in a nutshell. So alternatively, the police have a wee look, the guy looks a decent enough guy, so they do nothing.

Half an hour later, driver holds up a petrol station.

"He was on the police radar but, as usual, they did nothing"

They can't win.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: MDCCCLXXXV  
Date:   Wed 15 Jul 11:05

After looking at the video on the link saltonsgonagetu put up , I would cuff him too. We all know BRE is a big guy, but the officer standing behind him (presumably at the handcuffs) is the height of a primary school pupil and about 1/3 of his weight.

East End Park is a symbol of all that is DAFC.

Post Edited (Wed 15 Jul 11:07)
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Wed 15 Jul 11:11

We don't know your partner, for goodness sake Ben played for Dunfermline. One of the most famous football teams in the world. How stupid the police are not to recognise him. Keep your head up Ben and don't let these small people annoy you.

matt forsyth
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 15 Jul 11:48

Quote:

da_no_1, Wed 15 Jul 10:54

"Who'd be a police officer? You're told that the car in front is connected to drug and firearm offences and it's your duty to stop the car and question the driver."

It's this in a nutshell. So alternatively, the police have a wee look, the guy looks a decent enough guy, so they do nothing.

Half an hour later, driver holds up a petrol station.

"He was on the police radar but, as usual, they did nothing"

They can't win.


Why did he need to be handcuffed?
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Wed 15 Jul 12:34

LPF why would they not handcuff him? Do you think that someone who may be in possession of firearms and drugs should be asked to just stand for a minute while they search the car and there is no chance that they would either (a) flee or (b) grab a hidden firearm?

You’re probably right the police should probably take a chance with their lives for the folded arms pursed lips brigade.

Ben is within his rights to be upset considering issues highlighted by the BLM movement and the police are within their rights to take reasonable precautions to protect their and bystanders lives. There was no unreasonable use of force or violence by anyone on that video.




Post Edited (Wed 15 Jul 12:35)
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Wed 15 Jul 13:02

If the police suspect his car has firearms and/or drugs in it I'd be disappointed if they didn't handcuff him - no matter how "nice" he seemed.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Wed 15 Jul 13:18

a suspended prison sentence for assault in 2012 wont have helped when his name came up too.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: Athletico  
Date:   Wed 15 Jul 13:27

Based on the video, taser drawn and handcuffed is an over the top reaction, impressed with BREs other half remaining calm and collected.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: dd23  
Date:   Wed 15 Jul 13:52

I think everyones actions were commendable. BRE, his partner and the police. It was an unfortunate situation that needed to be dealt with. The police calmly explained why they did what they did, and BRE and his partner weren't over the top at all. Don't see any need for a complaint though.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Wed 15 Jul 14:00

Compensayshun

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Wed 15 Jul 14:02

Quote:

dd23, Wed 15 Jul 13:52

I think everyones actions were commendable. BRE, his partner and the police. It was an unfortunate situation that needed to be dealt with. The police calmly explained why they did what they did, and BRE and his partner weren't over the top at all. Don't see any need for a complaint though.


Perfect sum up. I would just laugh it off. Another story to tell the grandkids. It's not in the BLM category by any means.

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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Wed 15 Jul 16:12

Handcuffs I can just barely understand, but a taser? Well within his rights to raise a complaint.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Wed 15 Jul 16:25

Tasers are an instrument of torture that the Gestapo would have embraced with enthusiasm. They should not be carried by police officers in a civilised country. If a police officer, male or female, cannot make good use of a truncheon then they have chosen the wrong career.

As for laughing it off, I am not convinced this is what many people would do who had been handcuffed and had a taser pointed at them. I agree with the bit about telling the grandchildren though.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Wed 15 Jul 16:28

Quote:

sammer, Wed 15 Jul 16:25

Tasers are an instrument of torture that the Gestapo would have embraced with enthusiasm. They should not be carried by police officers in a civilised country. If a police officer, male or female, cannot make good use of a truncheon then they have chosen the wrong career.

.


Once again, I suspect you're on the wind up.



I hope you are.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Wed 15 Jul 16:49

Quote:

sammer, Wed 15 Jul 16:25

Tasers are an instrument of torture that the Gestapo would have embraced with enthusiasm. They should not be carried by police officers in a civilised country. If a police officer, male or female, cannot make good use of a truncheon then they have chosen the wrong career.


Trying too hard

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Wed 15 Jul 16:51

Been tasered, not pleasant.

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Wed 15 Jul 17:03

Not at all Grant.

Shooting electricity through the body is an act of torture in most people's book. I think an 80 year old man was a victim some years ago. The fact that western police have become militarised will be more obvious to people of my generation who remember UK society before Orgreave. That was when police were citizens with legal training and power of arrest: not playing at being soldiers.

Police used to be trained how to 'drop' a man: that was a truncheon blow across either the shoulders or the knees. I saw this technique used outside a dance hall once and it seemed mighty effective.

Police work is dangerous by its nature of random contact with the public but rarely fatal. The last Fife police officer killed on duty was kicked to death in a flat near Kirkcaldy harbour. That was in the late 1880s, a century and a half ago.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: Gareth Keenan Investigates  
Date:   Wed 15 Jul 17:17

Be interesting to know if he was acting the billy big baws before the camera came out which potentially aggravated the situation. Not saying that this is the case but he certainly has previous around the town for running his mouth when he was up here before. Would maybe explain the cuffs etc.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu  
Date:   Wed 15 Jul 17:32

I don't know what BRE was doing before filming ,but I do know that black people in a nice car will be getting stopped by police .
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jul/06/bianca-williams-athlete-stopped-by-met-police-being-black-is-a-crime

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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: neils  
Date:   Wed 15 Jul 17:51

Had she not been stopped something insane like 15 times?

I also agree with Sammer, I have respect for police, but they are NOT the law ( this also applies to schools re the named persons act) there is a worrying trend in increasing powers to public sector bodies who have no capabilities or responsibilities to carry out.

Clearly BRE looks an innocent mistake, but nonetheless scrutiny has to be transparent, nothing is ever exposed internally, so public scrutiny and strict parameters must be the norm.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: davepars  
Date:   Wed 15 Jul 19:23

My wife is a cop. I'd rather she was safe than sorry and comes home to her kids after each and every shift.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: Stoo  
Date:   Wed 15 Jul 20:13

If what has been reported is accurate this isn't a news story and it was handled pretty well.

Like others have said it was an unfortunate consequence of someone elses crime.

He wasn't stopped for being a black man in a nice car.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Wed 15 Jul 20:25

Quote:

sammer, Wed 15 Jul 17:03
.

Police used to be trained how to 'drop' a man: that was a truncheon blow across either the shoulders or the knees. I saw this technique used outside a dance hall once and it seemed mighty effective.

.



I'd far rather be tasered that have my knees smashed.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Wed 15 Jul 22:28

Quote:

davepars, Wed 15 Jul 19:23

My wife is a cop. I'd rather she was safe than sorry and comes home to her kids after each and every shift.


👍

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 00:05

Quote:

Gareth Keenan Investigates, Wed 15 Jul 17:17

Be interesting to know if he was acting the billy big baws before the camera came out which potentially aggravated the situation. Not saying that this is the case but he certainly has previous around the town for running his mouth when he was up here before. Would maybe explain the cuffs etc.


Or it could be the cops being over zealous tw@s?
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 00:05

'davepars,
My wife is a cop. I'd rather she was safe than sorry and comes home to her kids after each and every shift.'

I’m sure Sheku Bayoh felt the same. But he didn’t make it home. Eight Fife police saw to that. He was a big, strong black man so maybe it took eight.

Grant,
if you want to put your taser/truncheon to the test I am sure Police Scotland, the grand name by which they are now known, will be happy to oblige. Their report on your trauma will be available in 2031. In the meantime Rastapari might offer you some advice.

The police are safer than miners ever were or construction workers (whose trade union was smashed in the 1970s) have ever been. They are a sacred cow because they protect the elite, not because they protect the average citizen.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 00:35

The police commanded general support before they allowed themselves to become politicised during the miners’ strike in 1984. They took Thatcher’s gold and laughed all the way to the bank, as they thought, but are now realising they have meagre public support. Of course they can often be heard shouting at the public to ‘Get out of the Way’ and let the ‘professionals’ do the job with their array of military weaponry, but at heart they are no longer policising but controlling society.

Here’s a story from better days. It’s of a nobody called Neilson from the mid 1970s who wanted to be a somebody. He committed armed robberies on sub post offices and eventually graduated to kidnap with horrific consequences. He was tagged the 'Black Panther'. He escaped arrest for some time until two police officers in a patrol car were sharp enough to call him over one December night in Mansfield. Neilson pulled a shotgun and took control of them, but the police were bold enough to crash the car into railings next to a chip shop. The gun went off and deafened one of the police for life, but two miners came out of the chip shop and subdued Neilson so he could be handcuffed to railings. He was given a good doing and the police ended up having to protect Neilson from the two miners. That was how policing was done back then.



By 1984 these two miners would have been truncheoned on the head for attending picket duty. They were dubbed ‘the enemy within.’ That was policing Thatcher style and it broke public trust. They need their fancy torture weapons now because they do not have public trust.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 01:45

Quote:

sammer, Wed 15 Jul 16:25

Tasers are an instrument of torture that the Gestapo would have embraced with enthusiasm. They should not be carried by police officers in a civilised country. If a police officer, male or female, cannot make good use of a truncheon then they have chosen the wrong career.

As for laughing it off, I am not convinced this is what many people would do who had been handcuffed and had a taser pointed at them. I agree with the bit about telling the grandchildren though.


I would far rather be tasered than hit with a truncheon any day of the week. Those things are not made of balsa wood you know!

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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 02:33

Well, you can take the test if you believe that. But not on the genitals I am sure. The taser is not about public order, which we all support, but about domination. It is sadistic by nature and infliction. Any police officer prepared to use such a weapon is a Nazi. Pure and simple. Any citizen who welcomes its use is screaming, ultimately literally, for a police state.

A truncheon on the shoulder or knees will be painful but it is not an attack on the central nervous system. A taser is torture which is why it has such a flashy American name. It's an electric shock; it's torture under any conceivable definition but has slipped into the modern UK police 'kit' as a means to defend the rich.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 06:27

Quote:

sammer, Thu 16 Jul 02:33
. Any police officer prepared to use such a weapon is a Nazi. Pure and simple. Any citizen who welcomes its use is screaming, ultimately literally, for a police state.
.



A reminder that whenever Sammer starts a thread you have some people mewling about the quality of his posts, absolutely mental.

Post Edited (Thu 16 Jul 06:29)
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 09:09

We have a cop or two on this forum - please correct me if I'm wrong.

Police officers are instructed in the deployment and use of tasers as part of their basic training.

A taser can only be drawn where there is a perceived threat of violence by a suspect, or actual violence is taking place.

Police officers must give a clear verbal warning when a taser is drawn and that he/she is prepared to use it if necessary.

Each incident of a discharged taser has to be reported up the chain of command and reviewed by senior staff.

If so, I don't see what the problem is ?

Also, it's standard operating procedure to handcuff suspects where serious crime is suspected - that obviously includes drugs and firearms investigations.

BRE (it seems) was the unfortunate "victim" of the circumstances and would have been handcuffed if he were of any ethnic background, including a white person.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 09:45

I got handcuffed while in Chester train station, was wearing a kilt and someone had alerted the transport police to me having a knife on my possession.

Cuffed, waited for a police sergeant to rock up who then told the transport police bloke that a sgian dubh was cultural and you couldn't arrest someone for having one in their sock when appropriately dressed.

Uncuffed, he apologised , I laughed about it, everyone moved on. I didn't question why I'd been cuffed because I took it that due to me having a knife in my sock the transport police bloke was concerned for his safety, and it's very much better to be safe than sorry.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: jdafc  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 09:58

I have read the comments above and can add my tuppence worth to the conversation.
As a serving prison officer for 25 years I have a perspective that maybe a few of those who have posted don't.
We are not issued with Tasers, but with extendable metal batons. While Tasers are regarded as an incapacitant, batons (or the old staves or truncheons) are for breaking things.
A hit from a Taser will leave the recipient in a bit of pain and physically exhausted due to the effects of the electrical pulses on the muscles. These symptoms ease fairly rapidly.
A hit from an extendable metal baton will leave the recipient most likely with broken bones. These take a bit longer to heal.
I have never had to draw my baton on normal duty, but I have been involved in suppressing riots on more than one occasion and I can assure you that if I had to, I would have used my baton with every ounce of strength I could muster.
The paperwork we have to put in is similar to that of the police if we draw our batons. It is a pain in the bum having to justify the fear you may have for your own safety or the safety of others, but ultimately it is to ensure that these things do not happen for no reason.
I don't think it is remotely fair to assume that I (or police officers) routinely go around with a swagger and pointing our batons, Tasers or pepper sprays at innocent people. Incidentally, prison staff don't have pepper spray either. And I definitely find it a bit offensive to be calling people who do a very difficult job under very difficult circumstances Nazis.
I spend every minute of every working day confronting convicted criminals. I take the necessary precautions to ensure my and their safety. The police officers involved with the Richards-Everton incident were under the impression that there may be drugs or firearms involved. I think they behaved and acted in the manner appropriate to the information they possessed. The search was carried out and their stance was explained. If I was carrying out a search in those circumstances I would have done exactly the same.
I apologise for the length of this post, but I couldn't bite my tongue (or typing fingers) any longer. There were just too many ill informed and opinionated comments from people who simply don't have a clue what it is like to work on the front line every day and take the risks to keep the rest of us safe.

Always a Par

JD
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 09:59

Except better safe than sorry isn't the standard the police are meant to operate to. They're meant to use the minimum amount of force necessary to detain someone even in serious circumstances.

If you're happy being cuffed in that scenario it's up to you. Personally I'd be raging. They could easily have taken the sgian dubh off you and questioned you without restraints.

In BREs case he's been approached coming out of a shop facing a guy with a taser drawn and then been cuffed despite not threatening anyone. The police have acted first based on fear of what might happen rather than respond to what is happening. The guys is in his shorts and t shirt with his missus so the chance of a concealed weapon are low and he's also unlikely to escape from where he is if he does make a run for it. If that was a genuine concern they could have asked him to sit in the back of a police car while they carried out their checks.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: jdafc  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 10:04

Standard practise is that searches are carried out in front of the person. Not out of their line of sight. That would only be done as a last resort.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 10:17

LPF how do you know he came out of the shop to be met with a police officer with tazer drawn? The video doesn't show that. In fact it seems that the video only begins (or we're only being shown it) after the initial interaction has passed. I suspect the tazer was drawn as a precaution because if someone was guilty of being involved with drugs and firearms the moments before being cuffed would their last chance of escape. Fortunately unlike most European countries our police aren't armed with lethal handguns.

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 10:17

Quote:

londonparsfan, Thu 16 Jul 09:59

Except better safe than sorry isn't the standard the police are meant to operate to. They're meant to use the minimum amount of force necessary to detain someone even in serious circumstances.

If you're happy being cuffed in that scenario it's up to you. Personally I'd be raging. They could easily have taken the sgian dubh off you and questioned you without restraints.

.


I wasn't going anywhere, it made absolutely no difference to me if I was cuffed, it wasn't painful, it didn't bother me, why would you have been raging?

The bloke had literally just pulled a (what was in his view) a knife from my sock, who's to say I've not got another one hidden somewhere else? He hadn't heard of the cultural law that meant you can carry a sgian dubh, and if you're not aware of it then it does sound absolutely mental. So in his view I was a bloke with a knife, I won't get angry at anyone for putting their safety, and that of the public first.

With BRE his plates had been cloned and they believed they were pulling over a guy on drugs and firearms offenses, BRE is an absolute unit of a bloke and if he had been the guilty party who would fancy themselves in restraining him? They acted with the information they had.

I know of people that have been pulled due to cloned plates, same procedure.

Would love to know the size of the b******s of some in here, get told to pull somewhere over because he's driving a vehicle connected to drugs and firearms offences and 6'5 BRE walks out, with muscles in places most people don't have places! Aye right you're just going to casually ask him for a chat.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 10:27

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Thu 16 Jul 10:17

LPF how do you know he came out of the shop to be met with a police officer with tazer drawn? The video doesn't show that. In fact it seems that the video only begins (or we're only being shown it) after the initial interaction has passed. I suspect the tazer was drawn as a precaution because if someone was guilty of being involved with drugs and firearms the moments before being cuffed would their last chance of escape. Fortunately unlike most European countries our police aren't armed with lethal handguns.


I think that was the claim in the video which admittedly you don't see.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 10:33

Quote:

Grant, Thu 16 Jul 10:17

Quote:

londonparsfan, Thu 16 Jul 09:59

Except better safe than sorry isn't the standard the police are meant to operate to. They're meant to use the minimum amount of force necessary to detain someone even in serious circumstances.

If you're happy being cuffed in that scenario it's up to you. Personally I'd be raging. They could easily have taken the sgian dubh off you and questioned you without restraints.

.


I wasn't going anywhere, it made absolutely no difference to me if I was cuffed, it wasn't painful, it didn't bother me, why would you have been raging?

The bloke had literally just pulled a (what was in his view) a knife from my sock, who's to say I've not got another one hidden somewhere else? He hadn't heard of the cultural law that meant you can carry a sgian dubh, and if you're not aware of it then it does sound absolutely mental. So in his view I was a bloke with a knife, I won't get angry at anyone for putting their safety, and that of the public first.

With BRE his plates had been cloned and they believed they were pulling over a guy on drugs and firearms offenses, BRE is an absolute unit of a bloke and if he had been the guilty party who would fancy themselves in restraining him? They acted with the information they had.

I know of people that have been pulled due to cloned plates, same procedure.

Would love to know the size of the b******s of some in here, get told to pull somewhere over because he's driving a vehicle connected to drugs and firearms offences and 6'5 BRE walks out, with muscles in places most people don't have places! Aye right you're just going to casually ask him for a chat.


I'd have been raging mainly because I hadn't done anything wrong and i don't fancy the public embarrassment of being hand cuffed because someone didnt know the scope of the powers they were entitled to exercise. If you're cool with that it's fair enough. I wouldn't be.

On the tackling someone bigger than me point i used to work as a security guard and that was difficult enough so I'm quite happy to admit that i wouldnt have the bottle for it which is why I would never join the police. I probably couldn't do the job to the standards both the police and the public would expect. Unfortunately you get some folk that take the money and are happy to act first.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 11:09

Quote:

londonparsfan, Thu 16 Jul 10:33

Quote:

Grant, Thu 16 Jul 10:17

Quote:

londonparsfan, Thu 16 Jul 09:59

Except better safe than sorry isn't the standard the police are meant to operate to. They're meant to use the minimum amount of force necessary to detain someone even in serious circumstances.

If you're happy being cuffed in that scenario it's up to you. Personally I'd be raging. They could easily have taken the sgian dubh off you and questioned you without restraints.

.


I wasn't going anywhere, it made absolutely no difference to me if I was cuffed, it wasn't painful, it didn't bother me, why would you have been raging?

The bloke had literally just pulled a (what was in his view) a knife from my sock, who's to say I've not got another one hidden somewhere else? He hadn't heard of the cultural law that meant you can carry a sgian dubh, and if you're not aware of it then it does sound absolutely mental. So in his view I was a bloke with a knife, I won't get angry at anyone for putting their safety, and that of the public first.

With BRE his plates had been cloned and they believed they were pulling over a guy on drugs and firearms offenses, BRE is an absolute unit of a bloke and if he had been the guilty party who would fancy themselves in restraining him? They acted with the information they had.

I know of people that have been pulled due to cloned plates, same procedure.

Would love to know the size of the b******s of some in here, get told to pull somewhere over because he's driving a vehicle connected to drugs and firearms offences and 6'5 BRE walks out, with muscles in places most people don't have places! Aye right you're just going to casually ask him for a chat.


I'd have been raging mainly because I hadn't done anything wrong and i don't fancy the public embarrassment of being hand cuffed because someone didnt know the scope of the powers they were entitled to exercise. If you're cool with that it's fair enough. I wouldn't be.


I reckon he's allowed to detain someone who's got a bladed weapon on them, I doubt the transport police in Chester have dealt with many people in kilts and as such it was a honest mistake, quickly rectified with an apology with no harm being done to anyone. I just didn't see any point in being annoyed by that, let alone "raging".
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 14:31

Quote:

sammer, Thu 16 Jul 02:33

Well, you can take the test if you believe that. But not on the genitals I am sure. The taser is not about public order, which we all support, but about domination. It is sadistic by nature and infliction. Any police officer prepared to use such a weapon is a Nazi. Pure and simple. Any citizen who welcomes its use is screaming, ultimately literally, for a police state.

A truncheon on the shoulder or knees will be painful but it is not an attack on the central nervous system. A taser is torture which is why it has such a flashy American name. It's an electric shock; it's torture under any conceivable definition but has slipped into the modern UK police 'kit' as a means to defend the rich.


Absolute *****. Should be deleted.

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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 14:39

I hope Ben gets an apology and that the police do some work and find out about the clone car.

matt forsyth
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 14:39

Quote:

jdafc, Thu 16 Jul 09:58

I have read the comments above and can add my tuppence worth to the conversation.
As a serving prison officer for 25 years I have a perspective that maybe a few of those who have posted don't.
We are not issued with Tasers, but with extendable metal batons. While Tasers are regarded as an incapacitant, batons (or the old staves or truncheons) are for breaking things.
A hit from a Taser will leave the recipient in a bit of pain and physically exhausted due to the effects of the electrical pulses on the muscles. These symptoms ease fairly rapidly.
A hit from an extendable metal baton will leave the recipient most likely with broken bones. These take a bit longer to heal.
I have never had to draw my baton on normal duty, but I have been involved in suppressing riots on more than one occasion and I can assure you that if I had to, I would have used my baton with every ounce of strength I could muster.
The paperwork we have to put in is similar to that of the police if we draw our batons. It is a pain in the bum having to justify the fear you may have for your own safety or the safety of others, but ultimately it is to ensure that these things do not happen for no reason.
I don't think it is remotely fair to assume that I (or police officers) routinely go around with a swagger and pointing our batons, Tasers or pepper sprays at innocent people. Incidentally, prison staff don't have pepper spray either. And I definitely find it a bit offensive to be calling people who do a very difficult job under very difficult circumstances Nazis.
I spend every minute of every working day confronting convicted criminals. I take the necessary precautions to ensure my and their safety. The police officers involved with the Richards-Everton incident were under the impression that there may be drugs or firearms involved. I think they behaved and acted in the manner appropriate to the information they possessed. The search was carried out and their stance was explained. If I was carrying out a search in those circumstances I would have done exactly the same.
I apologise for the length of this post, but I couldn't bite my tongue (or typing fingers) any longer. There were just too many ill informed and opinionated comments from people who simply don't have a clue what it is like to work on the front line every day and take the risks to keep the rest of us safe.

Always a Par

JD


Well said. The Nazi comment from Sammer was well out of order and should be removed. An apology from Sammer is due too.

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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 15:00

I'm astonished at Sammer posting guff like that.

"Fortunately unlike most European countries our police aren't armed with lethal handguns."

I didn't realise the Carabinieri were actually miltary police until I was on holiday in Italy a few years ago.

The Guarda Civil also has military status in Spain.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: neils  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 15:08

Yep, most countries in Europe have paramilitary police divisions, under no circumstances should we.

The Guardia civil are notoriously thuggish and thick.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: neils  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 15:12

For me, policing by consent which is what we have, works brilliantly, I am old enough to remember small town police thuggery and like everything, if there are procedures and checks and accountability combined with proper training, works well for everyone.

Seems to have worked well during this lockdown.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 15:16

Quote:

veteraneastender, Thu 16 Jul 15:00

I'm astonished at Sammer posting guff like that.

.


Can't say I am tbh.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 15:25

I believe that France has 2 levels of police. However when we had the BLM demonstrations I noticed that there was 2 type of policing, the ordinary ones and those dressed in black with masks and shields.

matt forsyth
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: Kintos  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 17:40

What an absolute nonsense regarding a "truncheon". A baton is a far stronger (and potentially more fatal) use of force than a taser!

Being Pava'd is even worse than having a taser discharged on you.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 17:46

I'm still arguing that neither they nor the hand cuffs were needed here 😂
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 17:55

Quote:

londonparsfan, Thu 16 Jul 17:46

I'm still arguing that neither they nor the hand cuffs were needed here 😂


Pretty much.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: Kintos  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 18:09

Put yourself in the officer's shoes LPF... You've just stopped a car that has flagged for having drugs and FIREARMS markers.

Really can't understand why you wouldn't handcuff the driver/keeper. 9 times out of 10, this marker would be accurate and not, as in this case, a rare thing such as it being cloned plates. Therefore it is highly likely that the officers would be dealing with someone dangerous.

Dale Cregan was said to have conducted himself mannerly with police during interactions. I would suggest that doesn't preclude him from being cuffed when stopped. And to these officers, they are dealing with someone who potentially has the same markers...
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 18:11

Quote:

Kintos, Thu 16 Jul 17:40

What an absolute nonsense regarding a "truncheon". A baton is a far stronger (and potentially more fatal) use of force than a taser!

Being Pava'd is even worse than having a taser discharged on you.


I've had both, give me the truncheon any time.

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: Kintos  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 18:16

Likewise Rasta.

Taser everyday of the week for me. Each to their own I suppose
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: Kintos  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 18:21

Actually, I assume you are talking about the old school truncheon and not the current extendable baton which the police use? If so, I can't comment as I've never been on the wrong end of one of them, but would imagine by their design, they wouldn't inflict as much damage. The baton hurts like buggery!

Admin, don't think this thread belongs on the football forum tbh
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 18:27

I’m not sure what I’m supposed to be apologising for. I made a number of points that have hardly been disproved.

The taser is an instrument of torture. The fact there are guidelines is neither here nor there: there will be guidelines for any form of legalised torture from giving electric shocks to water boarding.

The police have been militarised. Just a glance at any police photos prior to Lewisham Town Hall in 1979 (the first time shields were used-to defend a National Front march) to the present day makes that obvious. They are no longer citizens with power of arrest but rather look dressed for battle in their all black garb.

The police do not command the general acceptance that they previously did. There are ample phone videos from the last few weeks that show police being driven out of certain areas. Those who own property are far more supportive of the police than those who don’t.

In terms of danger, policing is potentially less fatal than other less celebrated jobs, two of which I named. Where confrontations with the public turn violent the chances of injury are far higher for the member of the public than for the police officer.

A police officer using a taser is by definition a Nazi. That’s not technically correct since the NSDAP no longer exists but the taser is an instrument of torture and anyone who willingly wields one is certainly operating within a Nazi mindset of inflicting fear and pain on behalf of the state apparatus.

More generally it seems I am being viewed as anti-police. Well I am certainly opposed to how their role has been militarised and politicised over my lifetime. I am sure front line policing is a thankless job at times and would be very sympathetic to any officer who lashed out in exasperation after being goaded by a crowd. But at the same time, the best defence any police officer has is the support of the public and no amount of protective gear, weaponry and high tech surveillance can replace that.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: Kintos  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 18:43

The best defence a police officer has is the support of the public...

When we live in a age where the public would rather get their phone out and video a cop getting a kick in, this statement falls into the "utter bollocks" category.

And I don't think you should apologise at all, you're giving your opinion, that's all. Just because some are offended by it, why should you apologise? That'd be like asking the far right to apologise for abhorrent crap they come out with...
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: Darrenwntr1984  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 18:57

https://www.bradfordcityfc.co.uk/news/2020/july/club-statement-ben-richards-everton/

Darren winter
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: Mon-pa  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 19:43

Nothing to do with football - should flip this thread elsewhere / other forum for such debates

ARTY
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 20:20

Quote:

Kintos, Thu 16 Jul 18:09

Put yourself in the officer's shoes LPF... You've just stopped a car that has flagged for having drugs and FIREARMS markers.

Really can't understand why you wouldn't handcuff the driver/keeper. 9 times out of 10, this marker would be accurate and not, as in this case, a rare thing such as it being cloned plates. Therefore it is highly likely that the officers would be dealing with someone dangerous.

Dale Cregan was said to have conducted himself mannerly with police during interactions. I would suggest that doesn't preclude him from being cuffed when stopped. And to these officers, they are dealing with someone who potentially has the same markers...


I have tried to look at it from their perspective as well and yes it would be scary and no I wouldnt fancy it as a job but they're trained and expected to deal with those scenarios.

Even when you're on heightened alert for a higher threat you've still got respond to what you see and that's a guy out with his Mrs with someone with a taser drawn keeping him covered. He's not been belligerent and is actually quite compliant. I dont think he needs to be handcuffed there.

As much as the cops have a right to defend themselves innocent people also have a right not to be getting handcuffed.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 20:25

'The best defence a police officer has is the support of the public...

When we live in a age where the public would rather get their phone out and video a cop getting a kick in, this statement falls into the "utter bollocks" category.'

I think you're helping me make the point. The police should have public support but often have less than they need. The relationship between the public and the police is not good enough and unlike some commentators here I do not believe this is all the fault of the public.

Regarding the phrase 'abhorrent crap' which I assume was indirectly aimed at me, the UN Convention against Torture identified the taser as a weapon of torture some years ago. Amnesty International's position is more nuanced, stating that the taser can be a weapon of torture if used inappropriately by police. If that's abhorrent crap then there is a lot of it around.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 20:44

Surely a truncheon used inappropriately can be a weapon of torture as well? I'm sure real Nazis like Ernst Rohm's SA thugs did some real damage to people's bodies in alleyways and dimly lit streets with only truncheons.

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 20:54

Going off on a tangent but handcuffs are defined as torture items too.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 21:00

So can a feather tickle stick and some people might use them in tandem with the handcuffs 😮

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 21:02

No need to being your private life into this TOWK 😉
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 21:15

Was actually referring to Ken Dodds run in with the taxman.😅

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: Kintos  
Date:   Thu 16 Jul 21:51

Then you assume wrong Sammer as it was a direct statement intended for exactly who I referred it to. If anything, I know you are poles apart in your ideologies compared with that mob. Sorry if you feel otherwise.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 18:31

"Going off on a tangent but handcuffs are defined as torture items too."

Therefore, every police force and law enforcement agency across the world is inflicting torture on anybody and everybody who is placed in cuffs ?

Lunatics and asylum spring to mind.

For the record, what is their definition of torture ?
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 18:46

Quote:

veteraneastender, Fri 17 Jul 18:31
.

For the record, what is their definition of torture ?


Watching the football team you support trying to defend a narrow lead at 1650 on a Saturday?
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 18:50

In that case my "Human Rights" have been denied for the best part of 60 years - and I have the mental scars to prove it !!!
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 19:00

Sorry I should have added can be defined as torture items. The police ones aren't. I meant to make reference to the fact there are some things on the torture list that might seems a bit surprising but didnt mean to imply the police were torturing you when putting you in handcuffs although it probably did read like that without the distinction so apologies for that.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 19:01

The ones that are considered as torture items are smaller than the police issue ones.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 20:33

There was another incident in Islington last night of a black man being restrained by two policemen, one of them with his knee on the guy's neck as he lay on the ground. Meanwhile a crowd gathered recording the action on their phones. A Deputy Commissioner said the incident was extremely disturbing and that the technique wasn't taught in police training. It's almost as if the police on the beat are totally unaware of all the ramifications of acting like this in the current climate. One onlooker said he was worried the man might have died if it wasn't for the presence of the crowd.
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: EastEndBoy  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 23:42

I often find that those with the biggest chip on their shoulder about the police are the ones who have the greatest difficulty staying out of their way in the first place.

...ken?
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Sat 18 Jul 10:22

Quote:

wee eck, Fri 17 Jul 20:33

There was another incident in Islington last night of a black man being restrained by two policemen, one of them with his knee on the guy's neck as he lay on the ground. Meanwhile a crowd gathered recording the action on their phones. A Deputy Commissioner said the incident was extremely disturbing and that the technique wasn't taught in police training. It's almost as if the police on the beat are totally unaware of all the ramifications of acting like this in the current climate. One onlooker said he was worried the man might have died if it wasn't for the presence of the crowd.


It's reported the person being arrested was charged of being in possession of a knife in a public place, so seems like he can't really complain
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 18 Jul 10:27

The fact that the guy is likely a scumbag isn't the point. The police can't be kneeling down on someone's neck. I believe the officer involved has now been suspended.

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: Kintos  
Date:   Sat 18 Jul 17:54

Shocker from the officer involved. How, after everything that has occurred recently, can he think this is an appropriate course of action is beyond me. Absolute clown
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: Parplod  
Date:   Sat 18 Jul 18:30

Spot on Kintos
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 Re: Ben Richards Everton
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Sun 19 Jul 13:48

This is all going to get a lot worse before it gets better
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