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 Lockdown
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 4 Jan 14:13

From midnight. Hopefully just for this month. Sounds like England may be even longer.
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: the saline hill puma  
Date:   Mon 4 Jan 14:30

Pointless waste of time unless they have a proper plan for getting out of lockdown

Post Edited (Mon 04 Jan 14:37)
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: dd23  
Date:   Mon 4 Jan 14:34

Not really. They’ll monitor the situation and the plan will develop as the evidence is analysed. It’s a journey in which you can’t plan all the details before you set off.
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: Angus_W  
Date:   Mon 4 Jan 14:41

....Surely the plan is to lockdown the country & throw everything at vaccinating the population.

Save as many lives as possible.
Take the pressure of the NHS.

It will take time but at least we have an endgame this time round.

“.........your on mute Jordan” 😀
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: parsmad68  
Date:   Mon 4 Jan 15:03

Is football off again?
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Mon 4 Jan 15:22

Panic buying has started again Daughter just back from Aldi and folk going daft buying up all the long life milk, pasta etc.

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Mon 4 Jan 15:24

``They’ll monitor the situation and the plan will develop as the evidence is analysed.``

Wise words, but they could just as equally give licence to a bunch of chancers who are making it up as they go along. That is the view of my daughter who works for NHS in Fife and has had a first vaccination that made her feel pretty bad for a couple of days; her second instalment has now been delayed and she does not know what form it will take.

``It will take time but at least we have an endgame this time round.``

There may be no endgame if Hancock’s reported fears about the mutated Covid proving resistant to present vaccines is correct. Prepare for Lockdown in perpetuity.

``Save as many lives as possible.
Take the pressure of the NHS``

Rather than protecting the NHS the political class is protecting its own reputation. They have complied with the defunding of the NHS since the early 1980s when the Thatcherite mantra was that every public service should be run like Marks and Spencer and are now reaping the whirlwind. No surprise that higher tax countries such as Norway and Denmark have fared better in their medical response. Casting around for scapegoats like ‘Covidiots’ or ‘Anti-vaxxers’ is a desperate attempt to shift the blame from themselves for criminal negligence.

sammer
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: dander par  
Date:   Mon 4 Jan 17:23

Quote:

sammer, Mon 04 Jan 15:24

``They’ll monitor the situation and the plan will develop as the evidence is analysed.``

Wise words, but they could just as equally give licence to a bunch of chancers who are making it up as they go along. That is the view of my daughter who works for NHS in Fife and has had a first vaccination that made her feel pretty bad for a couple of days; her second instalment has now been delayed and she does not know what form it will take.

``It will take time but at least we have an endgame this time round.``

There may be no endgame if Hancock’s reported fears about the mutated Covid proving resistant to present vaccines is correct. Prepare for Lockdown in perpetuity.

``Save as many lives as possible.
Take the pressure of the NHS``

Rather than protecting the NHS the political class is protecting its own reputation. They have complied with the defunding of the NHS since the early 1980s when the Thatcherite mantra was that every public service should be run like Marks and Spencer and are now reaping the whirlwind. No surprise that higher tax countries such as Norway and Denmark have fared better in their medical response. Casting around for scapegoats like ‘Covidiots’ or ‘Anti-vaxxers’ is a desperate attempt to shift the blame from themselves for criminal negligence.


Good post . This is tyranny and lockdown s are to make us want to take bill gates (mr depopulation) vaccine n make us think we ll get back to some kind of normality. It ll only get back to normality when we the people take to the streets and say no .
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Mon 4 Jan 17:39

It’s depressing. The mutant variations are a real concern




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Mon 4 Jan 17:39

Well that puts to bed the vaccine buying us freedom.
Having a colleague and a mate take their own lives because of isolation, another bury his laddie after an overdose, found days after passing because of lockdown...and my close friends "paused" cancer treatment....he didn'tmake it..I could go on.
I'm personally ready for the conversation about a tually protecting those at risk and giving our children a hope of life, nothing will shame me from that.
Two weeks to flatten the curve, I was laughed at for saying power taken won't be relinquished, look at us now.
Blame each other all you want but the money thieved speaks volumes, take what you want, trust who you want...
Settle for what you are given.
You won't change a thing.

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Mon 4 Jan 17:56

It’s not quite tyranny: that would be when a government vaccinated its own supporters and denied the rest any medical care.

Confining people to their houses and increasing the social pressure to be vaccinated is more what I’d term ‘authoritarian’ but given the record so far of governments world wide, I would put this down more to hysteria and panic rather than some great conspiracy hatched by the Bilderberg Group or Bill Gates.

The roots of this panic lie in the big idea of the Reaganite/Thatcherite world view which I understood Donald Trump fully supported: that less public service provision and regulation frees benevolent entrepreneurs (and their friends) to become much richer whilst the wealth ‘trickles down’ to the plebs. To encourage an entrepreneur you offer him more money: to encourage an unskilled worker you offer him less money so he has to work harder.

Anyone straying from this orthodoxy is demonised as a Communist or ‘the enemy within.’ Once you transfer this paranoia (fully supported by MSM) onto a virus that is being treated by a skeleton health service (a policy hitherto fully supported by mainstream political parties) then it’s understandable that the populace would shout for strong measures to deal with the problem. Especially since many have little to no savings to fall back upon. What none of us yet knows, is what will happen politically if or when these strong measures prove as inadequate as they have done for the last nine months.

sammer
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: brian  
Date:   Mon 4 Jan 17:58

"take to the streets "
aye that will be right. how do you think the virus is progressing ?
we aint`t going to get anywhere when people come out with statements like that.

sorry to hear about the lives of your friends and colleagues, rastapari,
I don`t have any answers and not sure the government do either but I`m sure they are trying to do their best ?

Surely the vaccine will alleavite the situation but again will need a lot of time ?
surely trying to keep apart is one way to prevent the virus, though small bubbles to help people would be another solution.

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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Mon 4 Jan 18:36

Quote:

brian, Mon 4 Jan 17:58

"take to the streets "
aye that will be right. how do you think the virus is progressing ?
we aint`t going to get anywhere when people come out with statements like that.

sorry to hear about the lives of your friends and colleagues, rastapari,
I don`t have any answers and not sure the government do either but I`m sure they are trying to do their best ?

Surely the vaccine will alleavite the situation but again will need a lot of time ?
surely trying to keep apart is one way to prevent the virus, though small bubbles to help people would be another solution.


It didn't progress when protests were stayed sanctioned.

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Mon 4 Jan 18:53

An interesting take from a Scottish doctor....

https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/12/30/what-is-left-to-say/

I'm not sure why, but his assertion that political leaders around the world don't really know what they're doing or why they're doing it, cheered me up. Common sense dictates that we should be quite concerned.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Mon 4 Jan 18:53

A question I was asked today “would there have been any covid 19 or mutant strength if there had been no social media platforms etc”?
I very much doubt there would have been any lockdowns.

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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 4 Jan 18:54

I'm always bewildered by anyone describing the UK or Scotland as being some sort of police state. If it was, I would have seen umpteen people lifted today for breaching tier 4 rules.

Let's be honest, we end up with stricter rules because some are too selfish or stupid to follow them. These are the people that the message that salted peanuts contain nuts are for.
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Mon 4 Jan 19:22

Quote:-

Topic Originator: GG Riva like | nolike
Date: Mon 4 Jan 18:53

An interesting take from a Scottish doctor....

https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/12/30/what-is-left-to-say/

I`m not sure why, but his assertion that political leaders around the world don`t really know what they`re doing or why they`re doing it, cheered me up. Common sense dictates that we should be quite concerned.

G.G. That has to be one of the best article`s I have read on Covid 19
especially this :-

The ‘COVID19 s the most terrible infection ever, and we must do everything in our power to stop it, whatever the cost’ banner.

Or the ‘What on earth are we doing? This is no worse than a bad flu, and we are destroying the world economy, stripping away basic human rights and killing more people than we are saving’ banner.

I have had the same thoughts since Covid appeared and I think posted something yonks back

I am friendly with ex work colleagues who work in care homes and they told me last year that every death was marked on the certificate as Covid

I also have a good friend who`s Mother died from a heart attack and when He saw the death certificate it stated Covid as the cause of death

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Mon 4 Jan 19:28

The doctor linked by GG Riva, name of Kendrick, has been saying this since at least last summer: that Covid has been overplayed by governments keen to be seen to be doing something. Any government not doing something is then made to appear callous in comparison. I`m no great reader of charts so would be interested in what others make of his argument.

Here is a list picked up on The Guardian comments section without any link so it`s not verifiable. Like Kendrick the list focuses on `extra deaths` rather than the more subjective areas such as causes of death or rate of infection or mortality rate. The figures claim, by the blogger, to be from the last year and are the percentage of excess deaths per country, although not every country is listed. Again I warn: these figures are merely stated, no source is provided.

Spain 19.2
United States 16.8
Chile 16.7
Belgium 15.2
England & Wales 13.4
Czechia 12.2
Northern Ireland 11.9
Bulgaria 11.6
Portugal 11.5
Netherlands 11.3
Scotland 10.8
France 9.8
Austria 9.8
Israel 9.5
Italy 9.5
Slovenia 9.4
Canada 9.4
Switzerland 9.3
Poland 7.9
Sweden 5.6
South Korea 5.2
Luxembourg 4.8
Lithuania 4.4
Greece 4.0
Hungary 3.6
Finland 2.9
Germany 2.7
Estonia 2.6
Iceland 1.4
Denmark 1.1
Slovakia 0.3
Taiwan -0.2
Norway -0.7
New Zealand -0.8
Latvia -0.9
Croatia -1.4

sammer
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Mon 4 Jan 19:32

Sorry to hear about the friends you have lost, Rasta 😔




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 4 Jan 20:14

Excess deaths are probably the figures to look at (realise this sounds morbid). If COVID is "no worse than the flu" then the figures should reduce given all the additional measures. They haven't. They've gone up.

One reason for this may be that more people are dying due to not receiving treatment as a result of delays caused by the focus on COVID or because they didn't want to risk a GP visit. However, it's far more likely that COVID is a contributing factor in many cases.

Really sorry for your losses, Rasta. One thing that seems to be significantly overlooked is the impact on peoples health (including mental health). I'm fortunate to have family around me and be able to work from home where I see and speak to people daily. My in-laws live in the country so are very isolated. I can see how deflated they are to the point of questioning "what's the point?". Both retired and were looking forward to holidays and spending time with the grandkids. Instead they've had a year of seeing us now and again.
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Mon 4 Jan 21:17

Would we have any lockdowns etc if there was no social media?
I doubt it tbh and we would all be doing what we do etc!

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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Mon 4 Jan 22:09

If nothing else that's a very interesting read GG

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Mon 4 Jan 22:27

At what point of being locked in our home unable to hold or comfort our own ****ing families do we not accept this?
I actually pray none of you feel the guilt of friend you should have seen but didn't.
I leave yours to yours, leave mine to mine.

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: fcda  
Date:   Mon 4 Jan 23:32

Quote:

Rastapari, Mon 4 Jan 22:27

At what point of being locked in our home unable to hold or comfort our own ****ing families do we not accept this?
I actually pray none of you feel the guilt of friend you should have seen but didn't.
I leave yours to yours, leave mine to mine.


Rasta, if you need to, you're allowed to visit a vulnerable person.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-stay-at-home-guidance/

[I]Examples of reasonable excuses to go out: 
...
to provide care, assistance, support to or respite for a vulnerable person

to provide or receive emergency assistance.
...
You can go into another person’s house only for certain reasons... This can include providing emotional support for someone whose wellbeing is at risk[/I]
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Tue 5 Jan 00:05

Rasta you need to take a break from .net man. Go hug your family and do what you like. It's your choice. Please stop slagging off folk who are doing nothing else but trying to get out the erse end of this by simply following government guidelines which are now law

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"

Post Edited (Tue 05 Jan 00:06)
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Tue 5 Jan 08:33

Quote:

Rastapari, Mon 4 Jan 22:27

At what point of being locked in our home unable to hold or comfort our own ****ing families do we not accept this?
I actually pray none of you feel the guilt of friend you should have seen but didn't.
I leave yours to yours, leave mine to mine.


But as stated you could have visited these people at any time if you or they felt vulnerable. You clearly haven't read the rules properly.
I've visited a few people and also helped a friend get cancer treatment. They were too worried to approach the hospital or GP until I discussed it with them. I had some experience of cancer treatment due to my own experiences.
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: davepars  
Date:   Tue 5 Jan 22:03

79% of people support the third national lockdown according to a YouGov poll.

Poll results:
51% - Strongly support
28% - Somewhat support
9% - Somewhat oppose
7% - Strongly oppose
6% - Don`t know

Happy I`m in the majority to be honest.

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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Tue 5 Jan 22:14

Fair enough, but as things stand the score at present is:

Virus 3 Lockdown 0

At some point ahead Lockdown will be seen as a failure unless it can be supported by other methods to deal with the virus. On its own it is only a well intentioned gesture which saves some lives at the expense of others. It has been a failure across the board thus far.

sammer
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 5 Jan 22:59

Thats actually not true and lockdowns have been proven to have saved lives.
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: fcda  
Date:   Tue 5 Jan 23:01

Quote:

sammer, Tue 5 Jan 22:14

Fair enough, but as things stand the score at present is:

Virus 3 Lockdown 0

At some point ahead Lockdown will be seen as a failure unless it can be supported by other methods to deal with the virus. On its own it is only a well intentioned gesture which saves some lives at the expense of others. It has been a failure across the board thus far.


Do you not think there would have been far more deaths from Covid if there had been no lockdown? Plus preventable deaths from other causes due to hospitals being overwhelmed?
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Tue 5 Jan 23:48

I wish I could answer with more certainty one way or the other.
Lockdowns must be effective in so far as they decrease transmission, although I don`t think the scientists have fully grasped all the methods by which the virus might be transmitted. But overall yes, Lockdowns must have a beneficial effect in reducing transmission.

The problem is that after 9 months countries which have Lockdowned are little better off than when they started. There is a possibility that Lockdown only prevents the inevitable, a bit like kicking a can down the road. This seems to have been the case in countries like the Czech Republic and Hungary. One country which did not initially Lockdown- Sweden- should have been decimated by now yet its death rate per citizen is average for European countries. For some reason Sweden is always compared unfavourably with its Nordic neighbours and last week we had an article in The Guardian saying its policy had `failed.` Maybe it has, but not as badly as the Lockdown countries of Belgium, Spain and the UK.

Counting excess deaths is the only reliable method of gauging the severity of the threat but even that is fraught with difficulty: it is as difficult to judge how many have died as a result of Lockdown- and clearly there must be some- as it is to determine how many have died as a direct result of the virus. That`s why I said we are protecting some lives to put others at risk, although I have no way of measuring how they measure up.

If Lockdown is the least worse policy then there should at least be an acknowledgment that it comes at a price in terms of social and psychological health, particularly in regard to children. That will damage will be long term. Economically it hits those at the lower end of society, those with minimal savings, very hard indeed. It is not a simple matter of supporting Lockdown, patting oneself on the back and looking down on Covidiots.

sammer
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Wed 6 Jan 01:27

Quote:

sammer, Tue 5 Jan 22:14

Fair enough, but as things stand the score at present is:

Virus 3 Lockdown 0

At some point ahead Lockdown will be seen as a failure unless it can be supported by other methods to deal with the virus. On its own it is only a well intentioned gesture which saves some lives at the expense of others. It has been a failure across the board thus far.


That is not true at all mate. Lockdown done properly does work as proven in other island countries like Australia and New Zealand, South Korea etc etc

The big thing as far as the UK as a whole is concerned with protecting the NHS.
Advocating herd immunity would absolutely cripple it as well as killing off many hundreds of thousands of old or vulnerable people before their time.

Lockdown isn't a cure but it definitely buys time and now we have a range of vaccines, it is without any question the right thing to do.

Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: dander par  
Date:   Wed 6 Jan 07:32

Quote:

davepars, Tue 05 Jan 22:03

79% of people support the third national lockdown according to a YouGov poll.

Poll results:
51% - Strongly support
28% - Somewhat support
9% - Somewhat oppose
7% - Strongly oppose
6% check who owns yougov. None other than nadhim zahawi. The Covid minister.Using propaganda to keep m asses believing it’s for the good. When really lockdown s cause more harm to mental health and the elderly by excluding them from families etc . The nhs is always overwhelmed at this time of year as it’s flu season. But they won’t tell you how much staff are off sick or isolating 🇺🇸🎺🚄

Post Edited (Wed 06 Jan 08:18)
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Wed 6 Jan 08:40

Quote:

londonparsfan, Tue 5 Jan 22:59

Thats actually not true and lockdowns have been proven to have saved lives.


Didn't save the 6 people I know that passed.

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 6 Jan 09:02

Sorry to hear of your loss. Unfortunately it can't save everyone but there are now quite a few studies that show lives have been saved by doing it.

There was also recent research that estimates over 20,000 lives could have been saved if the last lockdown had been been brought in just a week earlier.
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Wed 6 Jan 09:13

Quote:

Rastapari, Wed 6 Jan 08:40

Quote:

londonparsfan, Tue 5 Jan 22:59

Thats actually not true and lockdowns have been proven to have saved lives.


Didn't save the 6 people I know that passed.


Covid deaths?
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Wed 6 Jan 09:49

Quote:

londonparsfan, Wed 6 Jan 09:02

Sorry to hear of your loss. Unfortunately it can't save everyone but there are now quite a few studies that show lives have been saved by doing it.

There was also recent research that estimates over 20,000 lives could have been saved if the last lockdown had been been brought in just a week earlier.


Come on don't you know that in conspiracy land anecdotal evidence always trumps actual research.
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 6 Jan 10:09

I can understand folks frustration mate and we're having to rely on lockdowns now because of past policy failures by the Government. If we'd acted decisively early doors there's a better chance we wouldn't be where we are now and by that I mean less deaths and potentially less need for the level of restrcitions we have in place just now.

Unfortunately when we needed leadership BoJo was banging on about superman capes and not bothering to turn up to meetings on the virus.
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 6 Jan 10:40

And knowing about a new strain back in September and still encouraging people to eat out and go down the pub 🤦‍♂️
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 6 Jan 10:44

That was just bonkers as was sending confirmed covid patients into care homes. We could be here a while if we are charting failures.
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Wed 6 Jan 11:00

I really don`t understand this :-

Nursery schools present "very little risk" and are Covid-safe, vaccine minister Nadhim Zahawi has said, as he defended keeping them open.

Mr Zahawi contrasted nurseries with schools, which were closed because they had been "vectors for the new variant".

The Unison union has called for nurseries to close to all but vulnerable children and those of key workers.

We know parents in our Town who are in bed right now with covid and it was passed to them from their daughter`s nursery school !!!

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 6 Jan 11:10

How did it get into the nursery in the first place? All the kids are made to sanitise at the front door, one parent in at a time. Any child in a household where someone has symptoms is to stay off for 10 days unless tested and has a negative result.

I'll share a story I heard recently. Guy had clear coronavirus symptoms but continued to go to work, as did his wife. They didn't want to be isolating at Christmas so didn't get tested. After Christmas he gets tested and is found to be positive. Over Christmas they'd been to see family. One absolute bellend who didn't want his Christmas ruined has now potentially spread the virus to friends, family and colleagues. This is why the virus spreads. People say it's no worse than flu - it is. Not only is it worse, it spreads far more easily, which then raises the likelihood of someone who could die from it catching it.

What I want to know is why we seem to so disorganised in terms of the vaccination programme. We've had months to prepare but it seems like they're making it up as they go along. I know there are a lot of unknowns right now but it feels like boards aren't ready for this.
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Wed 6 Jan 11:14

It`s worth noting that schools aren`t closed. Pupils just haven`t to go in. Teachers, admin staff, janitors, cleaners and catering staff are in as normal. Seems bonkers but there you go.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 6 Jan 11:21

Is that not because they're still open for the children of keyworkers?
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Wed 6 Jan 11:52

Yeah that`s right. That`s every school open though not like last time when it was just hubs.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 6 Jan 12:03

Seems a bit daft having them all open. Suppose they probably need some in just to check the buildings. Prime time for burst pipes and leaky roofs.

Interesting that things have been so bad down south that Scottish labs are having to analyse the covid tests.
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Wed 6 Jan 12:07

Nurseries are only open in England. They are closed in Scotland. Children of key workers aren’t being taught either, they are just being looked after.
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: Mr Mac  
Date:   Wed 6 Jan 12:39

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Wed 6 Jan 11:52

Yeah that`s right. That`s every school open though not like last time when it was just hubs.


I don't know about Fife, but here they had problems when it came to re-opening because there had been nobody in; things like water safety and so on that are more readily maintained by occupying the premises....... not just schools but other authority buildings.

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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Wed 6 Jan 12:48

I would think teachers etc will need to be in to prepare for online teaching.

Hopefully it will be better than the last time which was completely rubbish.
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Wed 6 Jan 12:53

Stats at my work today (employer of 65,000 UK wide) in March last year (lockdown) we had 3-5 infections per day amongst staff, current numbers are 50-100 per day.

Here is a sobering and scary read;

https://unherd.com/2021/01/inside-the-covid-ward/


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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: Rusty Shackleford  
Date:   Wed 6 Jan 12:57

Quote:

P, Wed 6 Jan 12:53

Stats at my work today (employer of 65,000 UK wide) in March last year (lockdown) we had 3-5 infections per day amongst staff, current numbers are 50-100 per day.

Here is a sobering and scary read;

https://unherd.com/2021/01/inside-the-covid-ward/


I read that earlier P. Really sobering.
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Wed 6 Jan 14:12

Quote:

moviescot, Wed 6 Jan 09:13

Quote:

Rastapari, Wed 6 Jan 08:40

Quote:

londonparsfan, Tue 5 Jan 22:59

Thats actually not true and lockdowns have been proven to have saved lives.


Didn't save the 6 people I know that passed.


Covid deaths?


No, 3 suicides due to being denied support, 2 cancer deaths, treatments "paused" and a mates some, overdose, poor boy wasn't found for days.

All we hear is covid covid covid, nothing of any substance regarding help for those that struggle in isolation or those whose treatment has been put on the back burner.

So far isolation/lockdown 6 Covid 0, hence my scepticism and at times anger.

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Wed 6 Jan 14:15

Quote:

sadindiefreak, Wed 6 Jan 09:49

Quote:

londonparsfan, Wed 6 Jan 09:02

Sorry to hear of your loss. Unfortunately it can't save everyone but there are now quite a few studies that show lives have been saved by doing it.

There was also recent research that estimates over 20,000 lives could have been saved if the last lockdown had been been brought in just a week earlier.


Come on don't you know that in conspiracy land anecdotal evidence always trumps actual research.


Those 6 deaths are very much not "conspiracy land".
Way to be a cretin though, I await your hurt feelings response no doubt.

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 6 Jan 14:27

It obviously won't be any comfort to you but suicides in general are quite significantly down over the period of lockdown and furlough compared to previous years.

I wouldn't blame lockdowns for those deaths but I do think it's important that wider health care services continue to operate as much as possible so people that need support are supported whether that is mental health support or continuing support for important procedures such as cancer treatment, diabetes treatment, heart disease etc.
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh  
Date:   Wed 6 Jan 14:34

"Stats at my work today (employer of 65,000 UK wide) in March last year (lockdown) we had 3-5 infections per day amongst staff, current numbers are 50-100 per day."

These numbers might look scary, but they need to put into a bit of context.

There were around 10 times more positive cases in October/November when compared to March/April, but half as many deaths in the following weeks.

If the death rate from the virus has remained stable, then this means the detection methods have

In the example above this would mean that number of infections now is approximately the same as in March/April. That`s not particularly good, but it is nowhere near as frightening as it looks.

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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Wed 6 Jan 15:12

Quote:

Rastapari, Wed 6 Jan 14:12

Quote:

moviescot, Wed 6 Jan 09:13

Quote:

Rastapari, Wed 6 Jan 08:40

Quote:

londonparsfan, Tue 5 Jan 22:59

Thats actually not true and lockdowns have been proven to have saved lives.


Didn't save the 6 people I know that passed.


Covid deaths?


No, 3 suicides due to being denied support, 2 cancer deaths, treatments "paused" and a mates some, overdose, poor boy wasn't found for days.

All we hear is covid covid covid, nothing of any substance regarding help for those that struggle in isolation or those whose treatment has been put on the back burner.

So far isolation/lockdown 6 Covid 0, hence my scepticism and at times anger.


That's quite sad. The people I know with cancer etc have not had any treatments paused and are doing as well as expected. Even myself who is 7 years remission from cancer is still getting my regular check ups.

Did the suicides not have any friends that could have provided support?

My wife went through a period of about 3 years where she felt worthless and she admits she felt like not continuing. There was little or no external support for her at the time. She got through it partly with my help and partly with the help of the pharmacist she worked with.

GP's were useless. They just prescribed drugs. Luckily she is a pharmacy dispenser and was able to research the best treatment with the pharmacists help.

She then had to go the GP and tell them what to prescribe. She was on the drugs for about 12 months then gradually weaned herself off them. All this shows is that mental health issues are not well understood and treatment for them is poor. I don't think much has changed throughout lockdowns other than additional pressure on the people suffering.

Post Edited (Wed 06 Jan 15:13)
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 6 Jan 15:22

GPs are dealing with so many that they've almost become robotic. Feeling down? Here's some citalopram. Got a sore back? Here's some codeine.
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Wed 6 Jan 16:28

Quote:

londonparsfan, Wed 6 Jan 14:27

It obviously won't be any comfort to you but suicides in general are quite significantly down over the period of lockdown and furlough compared to previous years.

I wouldn't blame lockdowns for those deaths but I do think it's important that wider health care services continue to operate as much as possible so people that need support are supported whether that is mental health support or continuing support for important procedures such as cancer treatment, diabetes treatment, heart disease etc.


The notes left mentioned loneliness, isolation, unable to cope with lockdown amongst other things.
Mental illness can be devastating, people go through a period of denying themselves the comfort of friends.
The two cancer deaths were directly caused by lockdown, they were as far as I know experimental treatments the doctors "paused" because of not being able to observe the treatment properly...there may be fault, maybe not
One family is taking legal advice, the other just trying to come to terms.
I can say 100% if lockdown happened 7 or 8 years ago there's no way I would have lasted the journey.

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 6 Jan 18:00

Really sorry to hear that mate it certainly does sound from what you've described that the lockdowns have been a contributing factor. I don't where you strike the balance between one type of protection for one issue when it can cause severe issues for others mental health. I think it's a difficult balance to get right.

On the wider treatment front whilst there are obviously resource issues I can't help but feel we should have been able to organise that a bit better as that's more of a management and funding issue that we should have been able to do more on. Its vital that people that need those kind of services continue to get them and the staff that provide them are properly protected and looked after.
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Wed 6 Jan 18:44

Quote:

londonparsfan, Wed 6 Jan 18:00

Really sorry to hear that mate it certainly does sound from what you've described that the lockdowns have been a contributing factor. I don't where you strike the balance between one type of protection for one issue when it can cause severe issues for others mental health. I think it's a difficult balance to get right.

On the wider treatment front whilst there are obviously resource issues I can't help but feel we should have been able to organise that a bit better as that's more of a management and funding issue that we should have been able to do more on. Its vital that people that need those kind of services continue to get them and the staff that provide them are properly protected and looked after.


It was a hard 3 or 4 months for me, for the families....I hate to think.
You are right it is a hard balance, it's the lack of any real engagement with issues out with covid that angers me, just last night when mental health was mentioned....nothing but quote a funding amount....and how much of that will go to Tory mates as opposed to actual frontline services?
Being starved of essential counselling and comfort in these times is just too much for some folks.
We have to start talking seriously about the protection and shielding of the most vulnerable instead of blindly and excruciatingly breaking the majorities will or hope for future.
I have no shame in saying I want more than this for my child or in law grandkids....I want them to be young and have a life.

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Wed 6 Jan 19:01

Quote:

jake89, Wed 6 Jan 15:22

GPs are dealing with so many that they've almost become robotic. Feeling down? Here's some citalopram. Got a sore back? Here's some codeine.


GP's are with some minor exceptions not properly trained in mental health issues. My wife found everyone at her practice to be absolutely useless and actually made her worse.

They generally only have a little knowledge about appropriate drugs. Your much better speaking to a pharmacist who always have a more in depth knowledge of drugs.
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 6 Jan 20:33

And mental health referrals are like hen's teeth. If you want immediate counselling you'll be paying £40 a session. Affordable for many but not for someone who's depressed due to being made redundant or working ridiculous hours for little reward.
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 Re: Lockdown
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Wed 6 Jan 20:48

Quote:

jake89, Wed 6 Jan 20:33

And mental health referrals are like hen's teeth. If you want immediate counselling you'll be paying £40 a session. Affordable for many but not for someone who's depressed due to being made redundant or working ridiculous hours for little reward.


Exactly.

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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