DAFC.net
Home 20 September 2021 
 Post Message  |  Top of Board  |  Go to Topic  |  Search  |  Twitter Updates  |  Log In   Forum Rules  |  Newer Topic  |  Older Topic  |  end 
[ please login to use the Like feature ]
 The Orange Order
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 1 Jul 08:28

An insightful read into the OO as we approach the traditional marching season. I know these marches were cancelled last year because of the pandemic but not sure if they will be allowed to take place this summer.

https://www.scottishreview.net/TomDevine577a.html

It's astounding that this organisation has thrived for so long and continues to do so, in this supposedly enlightened age.

God's ain wee country, right enough.....



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Thu 1 Jul 10:07

I hope wet get Indy before reunification of Ireland as really don’t want another wave of that loyalism coming over as they ‘flee’ the Dáil Éireann

Post Edited (Thu 01 Jul 10:20)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: Parplod  
Date:   Thu 1 Jul 10:38

Was always amazed that when applying to exercise their right to march that they never chose a direct route from A to B. There was always a detour via a chapel and they tried to time it to coincide with a service.
Fashion icons with the ladies in their lace brimmed hats and the gents with their trousers at half mast, white socks and moccasins marching as if their ankles were tied together.
It was the hangers on who caused the problems and if you asked one of them to explain the history behind the march they didn’t have a clue.
I should point out that my recollections are purely Glasgow based.



Post Edited (Thu 01 Jul 10:46)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 1 Jul 11:12

No place for it in 21st century Scotland but not helped by the powerful people who have sashes under their suits.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: MDCCCLXXXV  
Date:   Thu 1 Jul 12:47

It's not just a Scottish problem GG, I was in Liverpool around 10 years ago and witnessed the biggest orange walk I'd ever seen, I've also seen a walk in Blackpool and was shocked to see an orange lodge in Manchester.

East End Park is a symbol of all that is DAFC.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 1 Jul 13:19

Quote:

MDCCCLXXXV, Thu 1 Jul 12:47

It's not just a Scottish problem GG, I was in Liverpool around 10 years ago and witnessed the biggest orange walk I'd ever seen, I've also seen a walk in Blackpool and was shocked to see an orange lodge in Manchester.


I wasn't aware of that, Roman. I thought it was all down to the Irish folk who moved to Scotland, but significant numbers must have also relocated in Manchester and on Merseyside. I imagined the Irish in Lancashire were from the Republic and therefore almost exclusively Catholic.

Every organisation has a right to exist and protect its rights and beliefs, but what is the point of one which appears to exist mainly to hate another group of people?



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 1 Jul 16:02

Forget the Orange Order and the Masons. It's those Muslims we need to watch...apparently.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Thu 1 Jul 17:32

Jake89 is spot on

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 1 Jul 18:09

Quote:

Buspasspar, Thu 1 Jul 17:32

Jake89 is spot on


What do you mean, BPP? I'm sure Jake was being facetious.

Maybe you were, too, but a wee 😉 would have ensured there was no misinterpretation.



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Thu 1 Jul 18:20

G.G. I don`t want to go into it in any depth for fear of reprisals but just lets say the Muslim grand plan is on course :(

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Thu 1 Jul 18:24

Quote:

Buspasspar, Thu 1 Jul 18:20

G.G. I don`t want to go into it in any depth for fear of reprisals but just lets say the Muslim grand plan is on course :(


You are not wrong.

[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Thu 1 Jul 18:33

Pretty sure the majority of the 1billion+ Muslim population don't have much in the way of a grand plan - other than to live their lives and look after their family.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 1 Jul 18:40

I take this Muslim grand plan then has united the schism between Sunni and Shia. Fair play they have kept that quiet and have really committed to keeping up the charade.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: MDCCCLXXXV  
Date:   Thu 1 Jul 18:42

I know a few Muslims and nicer people you couldn't meet

East End Park is a symbol of all that is DAFC.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 1 Jul 18:50

I was being sarcastic 🤦‍♂️
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Thu 1 Jul 19:18

Quote:

MDCCCLXXXV, Thu 1 Jul 18:42

I know a few Muslims and nicer people you couldn't meet


Same here, some very good people. The lass I used to sit beside at work is Muslim, although she did make a phone call while I could hear, to her husband asking him to get some food for a party they were having. He asked if it should be halal and she said "no dont worry, it's only for white folk". She then realised what she had said as I was PMSL.
He definitely wasn't laughing when she introduced me to him, and I said "she's like my work-wife" - that didn't go down too well.
The local Muslim community have done a lot of good work during the Lockdown too. Good bunch
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Thu 1 Jul 19:21

The orange/green split was once a feature of Liverpool politics. The formidable local MP in the 1950s, Bessie Braddock, relied on the orange vote to get herself elected. Ian St.John, the Liverpool striker, was once an honorary guest of the Liverpool Orange Order. The question has often been asked as to why the Everton/Liverpool rivalry did not divide on a religious basis and it seems that the clubs shared the same founder originally so the support developed along geographical lines. This is in contrast to the founding of Celtic and Rangers which were clearly set up as focal points for the Catholic and Protestant population respectively.

Having seen a few marches pass below my window I awaited the ambulance siren with a sense of inevitability for there were always a few casualties at such events. As Parplod indicated the violence was probably committed by hangers-on, keenly aware that a detour past a chapel or a bar considered `Celtic/Hibs` offered an opportunity for provocation.

The article referred to the erosion of heavy industry undermining the working class protestant way of life but it has affected catholics as well. Factories and mining were places the two religions had to sink their differences and sectarianism was always denounced by trade union leaders such as Jimmy Reid, Alex Kitson and Mick McGahey. These voices are not around us today and working class people have never welcomed being lectured to by what they perceive as `do-gooders.`

sammer
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 1 Jul 20:20

I believe there is an (at least one) Orange Walk in the Republic of Ireland - in Donegal, or so I have been told.

There is one aspect which has always puzzled me - why do the vast majority of their members never go near a church year after year ?

Then bleat on about preserving religious freedom of worship.

Seems a strange one......................



Post Edited (Thu 01 Jul 20:22)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Thu 1 Jul 20:38

Quote:

PARrot, Thu 01 Jul 18:24

Quote:

Buspasspar, Thu 1 Jul 18:20

G.G. I don`t want to go into it in any depth for fear of reprisals but just lets say the Muslim grand plan is on course :(


You are not wrong.


A bit of explaining needed here by you two. What’s the grand plan?
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Thu 1 Jul 21:44

There is, was unlucky enough to get stuck behind it once in Rossnowlagh in co. Donegal (not Donegal the town) - we were there for the gorgeous beach (where they all drive their cars on the beach which seemed strange to me) but went from an beautiful location watching all the surfers, to being forced to listen to the Neanderthals and totally embarrassed by all the saltires being waved about

Post Edited (Thu 01 Jul 21:45)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 2 Jul 05:42

A quick google revealed that the parades are returning this month:-

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/7211237/orange-walk-glasgow-bridgeton-order-parade-lodge/

Is it just senior members of the OO who are allowed to wear bowler hats? I don`t suppose any dotnetters are members, but may have a relative who is. (A former colleague of mine had an uncle in the OO who stopped speaking to him when he heard that his nephew had accepted a promoted post in an RC school.) We used to have a poster who went by the name of `villager` who was and proud of himself, too. He got a fair bit of stick on here and eventually stopped posting.



Not your average Sunday League player.


Post Edited (Fri 02 Jul 06:45)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: parsmad68  
Date:   Fri 2 Jul 08:15

Probably put more time into band practice than they do to attending any religious service.
Anyone remember the Robbie Coltrane character Mason Boyne as a parody of the archetypal orangeman “laying down their purely symbolic batons” was always a line I remember.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: dave67  
Date:   Fri 2 Jul 09:44

https://youtu.be/oSwGpTwneow


The only way to enjoy the marches
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: MDCCCLXXXV  
Date:   Fri 2 Jul 09:49

GG I went online to check how many orange lodges were in England and could not find an answer ,but was shocked to find there are 92 orange lodges in 10 areas of Liverpool, not including Bootle where there are another 20
I had imagined that the OO was formed around 1690, shortly before or after the BOTB, but was equally shocked to find out the first orange order established in Northern Ireland didn't happen until 1795. So I don't get the whole "its our birthright to march through the Catholic areas of Belfast" argument, As they didn't take place until 105 years after the BOTB
The 1st orange walk in Glasgow didn't take place until .......yep you guessed it 1872, the year rangers were formed.

East End Park is a symbol of all that is DAFC.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: MDCCCLXXXV  
Date:   Fri 2 Jul 09:51

Lol Dave

East End Park is a symbol of all that is DAFC.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 2 Jul 12:13

"Probably put more time into band practice than they do to attending any religious service."

If only it could become a banned practice !!!

I wonder how many people know that a former cabinet minister was an member of the OO ?

https://www.theglasgowstory.com/image/?inum=TGSA05092

He upset the loyal brethern big time by refusing to endorse the Church of Scotland`s notorious 1923 report "The Menace of the Irish Race to our Scottish Nationality" - a publication that the CoS has since apologised for at the highest level.

[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Fri 2 Jul 16:10

I remember as a boy being enthralled by the whole circus and we would follow the band round Clackmannan .. The big drum made the store windaes rattle
Catholic families hanging out their windows waving at the band and the band waving back as they all knew each other ..

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Fri 2 Jul 18:31

Quote:

sammer, Thu 1 Jul 19:21
This is in contrast to the founding of Celtic and Rangers which were clearly set up as focal points for the Catholic and Protestant population respectively.


Quote:

MDCCCLXXXV, Fri 2 Jul 09:49
The 1st orange walk in Glasgow didn't take place until .......yep you guessed it 1872, the year rangers were formed.


I can't remember where, but I once heard/read that Rangers were formed as a normal club with no religious/sectarian significance. It was only much later, after the formation of Celtic, that the proddy/orange/anti-catholic/anti-Irish element coalesced around them. The thing is, it could well have been any one of the other Glasgow clubs.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference



[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Fri 2 Jul 19:57

Yes, I was wrong and you are right. Maybe the change came when Celtic poached Hibs` best players and threatened to become dominant in the Scottish game. I assume Rangers were initially protestant lads, or were seen to be, and that their location in the Govan area made them the team to support if you wanted to stop a Celtic hegemony.

sammer
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: MDCCCLXXXV  
Date:   Sat 3 Jul 11:36

I was lead to believe the East end (parkhead) area of Glasgow was predominantly a rangers area, whilst the largest Catholic population is based in the Govan area

East End Park is a symbol of all that is DAFC.

Post Edited (Sat 03 Jul 11:40)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Sat 3 Jul 13:46

Quote:

PARrot, Thu 1 Jul 18:24

Quote:

Buspasspar, Thu 1 Jul 18:20

G.G. I don`t want to go into it in any depth for fear of reprisals but just lets say the Muslim grand plan is on course :(


You are not wrong.



What a vile couple of posts.

Jake was obviously taking the mick, Lord knows what you two are on about.

Post Edited (Sat 03 Jul 13:47)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Sat 3 Jul 13:54

Quote:

Grant, Sat 3 Jul 13:46

Quote:

PARrot, Thu 1 Jul 18:24

Quote:

Buspasspar, Thu 1 Jul 18:20

G.G. I don`t want to go into it in any depth for fear of reprisals but just lets say the Muslim grand plan is on course :(


You are not wrong.



What a vile couple of posts.

Jake was obviously taking the mick, Lord knows what you two are on about.


Maybe they are taking the mick
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Sat 3 Jul 14:47

Quote:

red-star-par, Sat 3 Jul 13:54

Quote:

Grant, Sat 3 Jul 13:46

Quote:

PARrot, Thu 1 Jul 18:24

Quote:

Buspasspar, Thu 1 Jul 18:20

G.G. I don`t want to go into it in any depth for fear of reprisals but just lets say the Muslim grand plan is on course :(


You are not wrong.



What a vile couple of posts.

Jake was obviously taking the mick, Lord knows what you two are on about.


Maybe they are taking the mick


Hopefully!
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sat 3 Jul 15:28

Quote:

DA-go Par Adonis, Thu 1 Jul 18:33

Pretty sure the majority of the 1billion+ Muslim population don't have much in the way of a grand plan - other than to live their lives and look after their family.


Absolutely. There is still a grand plan though and they are innocent participants.

[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sat 3 Jul 15:34

Quote:

Grant, Sat 3 Jul 14:47

Quote:

red-star-par, Sat 3 Jul 13:54

Quote:

Grant, Sat 3 Jul 13:46

Quote:

PARrot, Thu 1 Jul 18:24

Quote:

Buspasspar, Thu 1 Jul 18:20

G.G. I don`t want to go into it in any depth for fear of reprisals but just lets say the Muslim grand plan is on course :(


You are not wrong.



What a vile couple of posts.

Jake was obviously taking the mick, Lord knows what you two are on about.


Maybe they are taking the mick


Hopefully!


Nothing vile about it.
Islam wants to dominate and has a plan to do so.

The vast majority of muslims wish to do this peacefully.
Unfortunately the less moderate take control as the plan progresses and the moderates conform or pay the price.

I base my opinion on this report. It doesnt matter who wrote it. What matters is are the facts correct...you decide and I will happily concede if They are not correct.

https://www.godreports.com/2015/09/how-islam-takes-over-countries/



Post Edited (Sat 03 Jul 16:02)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 3 Jul 15:59

Don't most religions want to take over? Certainly the case in South America with Christianity where missionary groups are effectively bribing people to convert. If that were to be Islamists the Daily Mail would be going crazy.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sat 3 Jul 16:01

Quote:

jake89, Sat 3 Jul 15:59

Don't most religions want to take over? Certainly the case in South America with Christianity where missionary groups are effectively bribing people to convert. If that were to be Islamists the Daily Mail would be going crazy.


Yes. Islam is no different.
And American white evangelists are a bigger threat to Christianity than Islam ever will be.



Post Edited (Sat 03 Jul 16:31)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sat 3 Jul 16:52

Grant
There was nothing vile about mine or PARots post. We said nothing against them ..there was no racist remark or intent.. The militants muslims have a plan and if you can be bothered to go and research you will see that it is not only on course as my post stated ...... but probably ahead as we speak.... whether it will succeed or not time will tell



Post Edited (Sat 03 Jul 16:54)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Sat 3 Jul 17:20

Godsreport.com



I'll pass on that one.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sat 3 Jul 18:31

Quote:

Grant, Sat 3 Jul 17:20

Godsreport.com



I'll pass on that one.


Like I say, its written by a Christian group but the facts are either facts or not. You decide, or are you just prejudiced against a particular groups view.

Incidentally, I have many muslim friends who I could comfortably discuss this issue with so calm doon.



Post Edited (Sat 03 Jul 18:42)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sat 3 Jul 18:34

Quote:

Buspasspar, Sat 3 Jul 16:52

Grant
There was nothing vile about mine or PARots post. We said nothing against them ..there was no racist remark or intent.. The militants muslims have a plan and if you can be bothered to go and research you will see that it is not only on course as my post stated ...... but probably ahead as we speak.... whether it will succeed or not time will tell



Exactly.

Christians have n evangelical plan

Mormons have a very agressive evangelical plan

Islam has a political plan.

All seek to expand.
Helluva job if you cant discuss the processes without being accused of being vile.

[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sat 3 Jul 19:46

Err.... How did we get from the OO (which really is a vile organisation) to Islam, Muslims and the Grand Plan?



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sat 3 Jul 20:19

Because G.G.there is no difference in an individuals interpretation of the words vile organisation if it so happens to contradict his/hers personal thoughts ..upbringing.. religion and views .. You have made your own personal thoughts and prejudices known many times .. others are entitled to do so .. so stop playing the daft Laddie



Post Edited (Sat 03 Jul 20:20)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sat 3 Jul 20:22

Topic Originator: jake89 like | nolike
Date: Thu 1 Jul 18:50

I was being sarcastic 🤦‍♂️

No Jake89 you sh1t yer pants as always
Pathetic



Post Edited (Sat 03 Jul 20:25)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sat 3 Jul 20:49

Quote:

Buspasspar, Sat 3 Jul 20:22

Topic Originator: jake89 like | nolike
Date: Thu 1 Jul 18:50

I was being sarcastic 🤦‍♂️

No Jake89 you sh1t yer pants as always
Pathetic



Na. I think it is obvious he was being sarcastic.

[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sat 3 Jul 21:31

Quote:

Buspasspar, Sat 3 Jul 20:19

Because G.G.there is no difference in an individuals interpretation of the words vile organisation if it so happens to contradict his/hers personal thoughts ..upbringing.. religion and views .. You have made your own personal thoughts and prejudices known many times .. others are entitled to do so .. so stop playing the daft Laddie



You've lost me there BPP. Let me see if I've got this right. There are over one billion Muslims around the world, many of whom live in abject poverty, but you think they are part of a Grand Plan to dominate the world? Of course there are some real fanatics in organisations like ISIS, but what %age of the world's Muslim population do they represent?

By contrast, the OO is tiny in comparison and they make no secret of their hatred of Catholics, particularly those of Irish descent - the Fenians. What adjective do you think I should use to describe an organisation which despises a group of people, purely on religious grounds. This is often described as sectarianism, but it would be more accurate to term it as anti-Catholic prejudice.

I am intrigued as to the "personal (thoughts and) prejudices" you have picked up in my posts "many times." Perhaps you could put up a list, if it's not too much trouble?



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sat 3 Jul 21:56

The vast majority of muslims are oblivious to the plan. They are decent people who just want to get on with their lives in peace.
There is still a plan and I posted it earlier if you want to see it.
Take each country and stat one at a time and address whether the comments are true or false.

Now im not going to accept criticism for saying any expansionist organisation has a plan. Of course they have a plan, how can you expand without one?
Communist, christian, fascist islamic, whatever. All have expansion plans. It is no insult to any of them to suggest so.

[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sat 3 Jul 22:03

G.G. go and read your own posts and save an auld man the bother

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Sat 3 Jul 23:39

Quote:

PARrot, Sat 3 Jul 18:31

Quote:

Grant, Sat 3 Jul 17:20

Godsreport.com



I'll pass on that one.


Like I say, its written by a Christian group but the facts are either facts or not. You decide, or are you just prejudiced against a particular groups view.

Incidentally, I have many muslim friends who I could comfortably discuss this issue with so calm doon.




Rest assured parrot, those who say "I've got a friend who's *insert group of minority they're about to insult*" are belters.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Sat 3 Jul 23:42

Quote:

Buspasspar, Sat 3 Jul 20:22

Topic Originator: jake89 like | nolike
Date: Thu 1 Jul 18:50

I was being sarcastic 🤦‍♂️

No Jake89 you sh1t yer pants as always
Pathetic




I think I know who Jake is.

He didn't sh¡t his pants, he was having a laugh and I'm sure he had no idea what was about to follow.

If he is who I think he is he's a good guy who was having a laugh.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Sat 3 Jul 23:57

Quote:

PARrot, Sat 3 Jul 18:34

Quote:

Buspasspar, Sat 3 Jul 16:52

Grant
There was nothing vile about mine or PARots post. We said nothing against them ..there was no racist remark or intent.. The militants muslims have a plan and if you can be bothered to go and research you will see that it is not only on course as my post stated ...... but probably ahead as we speak.... whether it will succeed or not time will tell



Exactly.

Christians have n evangelical plan

.



The absolute state of this, to then have the brass neck and proclaim that your version of supporting a certain sky fairy is somehow nicer than another version is nonsense.


To look at the history's of Christian expansion and to proclaim it's evangelical is wild, I can't imagine parrot had a straight face.

To say that Muslims have some grand plan, in the sinsisiter way put across in this forum is wild. Islam, like all religions want everyone to beleive it,like Christianity, no difference, not at all. Quote that nonsense website all you want I've never seen a less reputable source quoted on this website in an argument ever.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sun 4 Jul 00:13

Quote:

Grant, Sat 3 Jul 23:39

Quote:

PARrot, Sat 3 Jul 18:31

Quote:

Grant, Sat 3 Jul 17:20

Godsreport.com



I'll pass on that one.


Like I say, its written by a Christian group but the facts are either facts or not. You decide, or are you just prejudiced against a particular groups view.

Incidentally, I have many muslim friends who I could comfortably discuss this issue with so calm doon.




Rest assured parrot, those who say "I've got a friend who's *insert group of minority they're about to insult*" are belters.


No you are wrong there. And i didnt say a friend i said lots of friends. I also specifically stated that I could have this discussion with them comfortably, which was my point...the point that you missed.

[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sun 4 Jul 00:16

Quote:

Grant, Sat 3 Jul 23:57

Quote:

PARrot, Sat 3 Jul 18:34

Quote:

Buspasspar, Sat 3 Jul 16:52

Grant
There was nothing vile about mine or PARots post. We said nothing against them ..there was no racist remark or intent.. The militants muslims have a plan and if you can be bothered to go and research you will see that it is not only on course as my post stated ...... but probably ahead as we speak.... whether it will succeed or not time will tell



Exactly.

Christians have n evangelical plan

.



The absolute state of this, to then have the brass neck and proclaim that your version of supporting a certain sky fairy is somehow nicer than another version is nonsense.


To look at the history's of Christian expansion and to proclaim it's evangelical is wild, I can't imagine parrot had a straight face.

To say that Muslims have some grand plan, in the sinsisiter way put across in this forum is wild. Islam, like all religions want everyone to beleive it,like Christianity, no difference, not at all. Quote that nonsense website all you want I've never seen a less reputable source quoted on this website in an argument ever.


Your making stuff up. I made a point, several points of stating there is no difference. Expansionist plans are what they are regardless of the group involved.

The christian instruction was to evangelise to those who would listen. I believe the original islamic instruction was similar. However, both were hijacked by militant expansionists and the innocents have suffered in all cases.
Your posts are a classic case of assuming you know what I believe and consequently misrepresenting my comments in retorts.



Post Edited (Sun 04 Jul 00:26)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sun 4 Jul 00:47

This is reportedly how the more radical elements of islam expand their influence.
The facts and stats are here and we know from history and events how accurate they are.
By all means tell me where the report is wrong. I daid I would happily concede.

In Dr. Peter Hammond’s book, “Slavery, Terrorism and Islam,” he documents the way Muslims slowly develop a presence in various countries and as their population numbers build, become more aggressive and assertive about exercising Sharia law.
“Islam is not a religion, nor is it a cult. In its fullest form, it is a complete, total, 100% system of life,” Dr. Hammond notes in his book. “Islam has religious, legal, political, economic, social, and military components. The religious component is a beard for all of the other components.”
Their takeover of a country, what Dr. Hammond refers to as “Islamization,” begins when the population of Muslims reaches a critical mass, and they being to agitate for various privileges.
Open, free, democratic societies are particularly vulnerable. “When politically correct, tolerant, and culturally diverse societies agree to Muslim demands for their religious privileges, some of the other components tend to creep in as well,” he notes.
This is how it works, according to Dr. Hammond:
When the Muslim population remains under 2% in a country, they will be seen primarily as a peace-loving minority and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the current situation in:
United States — Muslim 0.6%
Australia — Muslim 1.5%
Canada — Muslim 1.9%
China — Muslim 1.8%
Italy — Muslim 1.5%
Norway — Muslim 1.8%
As the Muslim population reaches 2% to 5%, they begin to recruit from ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, within prisons and street gangs. This is happening in:
Denmark — Muslim 2%
Germany — Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom — Muslim 2.7%
Spain — Muslim 4%
Thailand — Muslim 4.6%
“From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population,” Dr. Hammond notes. “For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food” and increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature such food on their shelves — along with threats for failure to comply. This is happening in:
France — Muslim 8%
Philippines — 5%
Sweden — Muslim 5%
Switzerland — Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands — Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad & Tobago — Muslim 5.8%
Soon they begin to apply pressure to allow Sharia law within their own communities (sometimes ghettos).
“When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions,” Dr. Hammond notes. “In Paris, we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam, and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam, with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam.” These tensions are seen on a regular basis in:
Guyana — Muslim 10%
India — Muslim 13.4%
Israel — Muslim 16%
Kenya — Muslim 10%
Russia — Muslim 15%
The violence increases when the Muslim population reaches 20%. “After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues,” such as in:
Ethiopia — Muslim 32.8%
“At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare,” such as in:
Bosnia — Muslim 40%
Chad — Muslim 53.1%
Lebanon — Muslim 59.7%
From 60%, persecution of non-believing “infidels” rises significantly, including sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia law as a weapon, and Jizya, a tax placed on infidels, such as in:
Albania — Muslim 70%
Malaysia — Muslim 60.4%
Qatar — Muslim 77.5%
Sudan — Muslim 70%
After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out “infidels,” and move toward a 100% Muslim society, which has been experienced to some degree in:
Bangladesh — Muslim 83%
Egypt — Muslim 90%
Gaza — Muslim 98.7%
Indonesia — Muslim 86.1%
Iran — Muslim 98%
Iraq — Muslim 97%
Jordan — Muslim 92%
Morocco — Muslim 98.7%
Pakistan — Muslim 97%
Palestine — Muslim 99%
Syria — Muslim 90%
Tajikistan — Muslim 90%
Turkey — Muslim 99.8%
United Arab Emirates — Muslim 96%
A 100% Muslim society will theoretically usher in their version of peace — the peace of ‘Dar-es-Salaam’ — the Islamic House of Peace. “Here there’s supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrassas are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word,” such as in:
Afghanistan — Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia — Muslim 100%
Somalia — Muslim 100%
Yemen — Muslim 100%

Quite extreme views about the more extreme elements...but how much is accurate?

....and yes militant Christianity was no better.



Post Edited (Sun 04 Jul 00:57)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Sun 4 Jul 01:15

`Slavery, Terrorism and Islam` sounds a very neutral title; maybe I should read Hammond`s book since he has the letters `Dr` before his name.

Then again, maybe I will file him alongside Nazi propagandists like Julius Streicher. In pre Nazi Germany the Jews made up 1% of the population, although you might have been forgiven for believing it was much higher when reading one of Streicher`s columns which even Hitler was embarrassed by. Yet even when the war was being lost the Nazis were employing massive resources to exterminate a religious group that was minimal in its own terms. It was lunacy on a grand scale, a hatred or fear of something which was no real threat.

I have no idea who Hammond is, but given his obvious targets such as Gaza and Palestine I do not think it would be difficult to see where his funding comes from.

sammer
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Sun 4 Jul 02:04

From what I can gather Hammond was a South African who discovered God just as the apartheid regime was being overthrown. He claims to hate Communism because it is atheistic although I would suspect his wallet or property is more the reason. Nonetheless he is the type of religious crank who can found picketing abortion clinics which he views as `marxist.` By his own account Hammond had a meeting with Nelson Mandela which is rather odd given his poor opinion of the man. Below is a quotation ascribed to Hammond:

`Nelson Mandela Promoted Communism, Abortion, Terrorism and Pornography, In His Fight Against God, Truth, Prayer and the Bible`

The title `Dr` I suspect has been earned like the one given to `Dr` Ian Paisley: viz, by his association with a religious cult. I can find no record of Hammond criticising the apartheid regime despite being born in 1960, so I assume he is comfortable with racism. The statistics offered by Parrot above are in keeping with his academic credentials. DAFC.net is not an academic forum of course but I think we are entitled to something a little better.

sammer
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sun 4 Jul 03:19

Quote:

sammer, Sun 4 Jul 01:15

`Slavery, Terrorism and Islam` sounds a very neutral title; maybe I should read Hammond`s book since he has the letters `Dr` before his name.

Then again, maybe I will file him alongside Nazi propagandists like Julius Streicher. In pre Nazi Germany the Jews made up 1% of the population, although you might have been forgiven for believing it was much higher when reading one of Streicher`s columns which even Hitler was embarrassed by. Yet even when the war was being lost the Nazis were employing massive resources to exterminate a religious group that was minimal in its own terms. It was lunacy on a grand scale, a hatred or fear of something which was no real threat.

I have no idea who Hammond is, but given his obvious targets such as Gaza and Palestine I do not think it would be difficult to see where his funding comes from.


I dont know anything about him but I didn't want to hide the source as it is obviously relevant. Nonetheless what do you make of the suggested procedure. Is this accurate?
Are the actions he attributes to rising percentages really what is happening in the countries listed or is he wrong.

If he is accurate then it is a threat to moderate muslims as much as non muslims.

Personally I don't feel threatened. This may be the tactics of more extreme islamists but i dont see it as a real threat to the UK or western Europe. There are countries who are in the higher percentages who may have reasons for concern though....if the illustration is a true reflection of what is happening.
Is there evidence that the actions he claims occur at each percentage level do actually happen.
I am aware of some, particularly the cartoon incidents and The obvious militant presence in some countries. Im not fussed about Halal food and fail to see why that should be an issue. I have heard of pushes for Shariah Law in some communities but that could be just right wing propaganda.



Post Edited (Sun 04 Jul 03:50)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 4 Jul 07:57

Quote:

Buspasspar, Sat 3 Jul 22:03

G.G. go and read your own posts and save an auld man the bother


Oh dear, is that a cop out?

You make quite a serious accusation of prejudice about a fellow Pars fan you've never met, (oh, the irony) citing his posts on this forum and when asked to produce some evidence, you suggest the accused finds the evidence for himself. Eh?

Can you at least expand on the prejudices you have noted in my posts? Maybe I can be of some help? Racism? Homophobia? Misogyny? Sectarian? Anti-Semitic?

If you cannot be more specific, I'll have to conclude that your accusations are completely scurrilous - if you will not, I have to ask, why?



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 4 Jul 08:19

OK you win G.G. lets move on :)

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 4 Jul 08:22

"I think I know who Jake is."

"He didn`t sh¡t his pants, he was having a laugh and I`m sure he had no idea what was about to follow."

Ok Grant my apologies to jake

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 4 Jul 09:25

Quote:

Buspasspar, Sat 3 Jul 20:22

Topic Originator: jake89 like | nolike
Date: Thu 1 Jul 18:50

I was being sarcastic 🤦‍♂️

No Jake89 you sh1t yer pants as always
Pathetic



Don't make a fool of yourself, BPP. Maybe get back to those re-runs of Love Thy Neighbour on Yesterday.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 4 Jul 09:29

For clarity, my point was that we see the media go on about secrecy in Mosques but you never hear the same about predominantly white organisations such as the OO and the Masons. It's not Muslims (or any other religion) we should be worrying about, it's the corruption that is the problem in society.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 4 Jul 10:34

"Don`t make a fool of yourself, BPP. Maybe get back to those re-runs of Love Thy Neighbour on Yesterday."

Lol .. I`m good at it jake89 :)

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 4 Jul 10:48

Quote:

Buspasspar, Sun 4 Jul 08:19

OK you win G.G. lets move on :)


I wasn't looking to win anything, BPP and happy to move on. I obviously touched a nerve when I asked how this thread about the OO had moved on to Muslims, Islam and the so-called Grand Plan. I was taken aback when you alleged that I had demonstrated my prejudices many times and asked you to show me the evidence. You have been unable/unwilling to do this.

I see you apologised to Jake, in a round about sort of way. A direct apology to me would have been the classy thing to do, instead of an invitation to "move on" as if you had done nothing wrong. I would have accepted your apology and put it down to a bit of misguided "banter" on your part.



Not your average Sunday League player.


Post Edited (Sun 04 Jul 10:48)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 4 Jul 12:07

Please accept my apology G.G.

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sun 4 Jul 12:46

Quote:

jake89, Sun 4 Jul 09:29

For clarity, my point was that we see the media go on about secrecy in Mosques but you never hear the same about predominantly white organisations such as the OO and the Masons. It's not Muslims (or any other religion) we should be worrying about, it's the corruption that is the problem in society.


Thought that was pretty obvious but I responded to BBPs post as i was aware of the report that I posted. I think its a good discussion point whether it is concidered or debunked.
Likewise, its the advancement of any totalitarian system that concerns me, regardless of culture.



Post Edited (Sun 04 Jul 12:49)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Sun 4 Jul 15:46

Quote:

Buspasspar, Sun 4 Jul 12:07

Please accept my apology G.G.


Now, that's sarcasm.... ;)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 4 Jul 16:31

Quote:

Buspasspar, Sun 4 Jul 12:07

Please accept my apology G.G.


Apology accepted, auld yin, but only because you started it with "please." 😉

Tbh, I wasn't looking or asking for an apology, but now feel bad as I appear to have extracted one from you, by bringing up the lack of one in my previous post. I genuinely regret that now. I'm sure you will agree that a spontaneous, unsolicited apology is more valuable and would have been much appreciated.

I've never asked for or demanded an apology from anyone in my life, as it's worthless unless the person offering it really means it. Only you will know if your apology is genuine, but I'm happy to take it at face value and move on.

Now perhaps we can get back on topic and those wanting to discuss the Islam's Grand Plan can start their own thread?



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 4 Jul 17:13

Things is GG, as ridiculous as a Muslim masterplan to dominate world is (ask the Uighur Muslims in China how that is working out), I`m not sure what the point of this topic really is apart from the Orange Order is a bit of silly organisation to non members.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 4 Jul 18:00

G.G. I will never fall out with anyone my mistake was not to apologise before i said move on .. you have no need for regret .. lives too short ..

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 4 Jul 18:12

"Things is GG, as ridiculous as a Muslim masterplan to dominate world is"

Is it ridiculous towk ?

Blame jake89 he started it :-))

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 4 Jul 18:20

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sun 4 Jul 17:13

Things is GG, as ridiculous as a Muslim masterplan to dominate world is (ask the Uighur Muslims in China how that is working out), I`m not sure what the point of this topic really is apart from the Orange Order is a bit of silly organisation to non members.


I would contend that the OO is an odious organisation rather than merely a silly one, TOWK. An organisation celebrating an obscure battle in a remote part of Ireland more than 300 years ago and whose principal raison d'etrè is their hatred of Catholics. I can't get my head round that at all. Many of them have aligned themselves with a big Glasgow club where they sing their hate-filled songs with impunity.



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 4 Jul 18:22

Quote:

Buspasspar, Sun 4 Jul 18:00

G.G. I will never fall out with anyone my mistake was not to apologise before i said move on .. you have no need for regret .. lives too short ..


I've already forgotten it and moved on, BPP. It's in the past so let's leave it there.



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sun 4 Jul 18:30

It wasnt an unimportant battle. It was actually a very important battle. More to do with religious freedom than hatred of catholics. So much so that the Pope paid for the scandanavian mercenaries who enhanced the protestant ranks.
Catholics nowadays are catholics by choice. Had James won that battle we would all be catholic or else!
It wasnt just about the restoration of the Stewart dynasty.

[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 4 Jul 19:15

Quote:

PARrot, Sun 4 Jul 18:30

It wasnt an unimportant battle. It was actually a very important battle. More to do with religious freedom than hatred of catholics. So much so that the Pope paid for the scandanavian mercenaries who enhanced the protestant ranks.
Catholics nowadays are catholics by choice. Had James won that battle we would all be catholic or else!
It wasnt just about the restoration of the Stewart dynasty.


Thanks for your input, Parrot. It was still a helluva long time ago and maybe we need to leave it in the past now. Catholics are not Catholics by choice, btw. They are born into Catholic families and baptised, as babies usually. Afaik, you can't be unbaptised but you can choose to stop being a practising Catholic and approx 9 out 10 baptised Catholics exercise this option.

I don't think Catholics are a threat to Scottish Presbyterians and vice versa. Why can't we all live peacefully together without all the animosity and hatred which manifests itself in not only at certain football matches, but in Scottish society in general.



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Sun 4 Jul 19:33

Because GG Riva religion is the cause of so many wars/fallouts etc. It’s nonesense and is getting worse.

[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 4 Jul 19:38

"I don`t think Catholics are a threat to Scottish Presbyterians and vice versa. Why can`t we all live peacefully together without all the animosity and hatred which manifests itself in not only at certain football matches, but in Scottish society in general."

Back in the day G.G. we lived beside the Hanlons .. a catholic family ..John was my best pal but he went to St. Mungo`s and I went to Clackmannan school .. there in lies the first divide in a harmonious religious community .. we only met at nights and week-ends .. His uncle George took us to our first Celtic v Pars game in 1960 and I was hooked .. John also .. but to George`s dismay we were both hooked on the Pars
There was no animosity and hatred back then in the small villages and towns we all accepted each other irrespective of religion .. I honestly don`t know where it has all gone wrong ..If only we could go back

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 4 Jul 19:55

Separating schools based on religion is a nonsense. I'm sure many local authorities would love to do away with this but it's obviously very political. Seems ridiculous that that the new Woodmill and St C's will share a campus but remain separate.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Sun 4 Jul 20:07

I worked on contract jobs in Belfast for 2 years and it was council so worked either side of Shankhill road estates….. that was a massive eye opener as a 26 year old lad.
You were told by the locals when you could enter each estate and as our standard uniform was blue I was given black unbranded and all vans were not sign written etc. All sides of houses painted with slogans and pavements in colours… 4 x 12hr shifts and you could tell you were getting watched all the time…

[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 4 Jul 23:15

"It wasnt an unimportant battle. It was actually a very important battle. More to do with religious freedom than hatred of catholics. So much so that the Pope paid for the scandanavian mercenaries who enhanced the protestant ranks.
Catholics nowadays are catholics by choice. Had James won that battle we would all be catholic or else!
It wasnt just about the restoration of the Stewart dynasty."

It wasn`t principally about religious freedom either.

The Pope and William of Orange formed a convenient alliance to thwart the power and threat of France, who supported the Stuarts.

William accepted the offer of the British Crown in order to join his native Holland with that of the UK in the face of his mortal enemy Louis XIV.

A political accommodation that ticked the boxes on that agenda.

[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Mon 5 Jul 06:49

"Because GG Riva religion is the cause of so many wars/fallouts etc. It’s nonsense and is getting worse."

That`s not strictly true, EEP. All the world`s main religions preach tolerance and acceptance of other religions. Quite often, religion is merely an excuse for different political ideologies, as is the case in N. Ireland. I do agree, like John Lennon sang in "Imagine", that the world might be a better place if there was no religion.

"Back in the day G.G. we lived beside the Hanlons .. a catholic family ..John was my best pal but he went to St. Mungo`s and I went to Clackmannan school .. there in lies the first divide in a harmonious religious community .. we only met at nights and week-ends .. His uncle George took us to our first Celtic v Pars game in 1960 and I was hooked .. John also .. but to George`s dismay we were both hooked on the Pars
There was no animosity and hatred back then in the small villages and towns we all accepted each other irrespective of religion .. I honestly don`t know where it has all gone wrong ..If only we could go back."

That`s a nice, if slightly rose-tinted tale from your childhood, BPP. In the West of Scotland, where there was a much higher concentration of Irish Catholics, the situation was rather less rosy. The UK Government agreed to fund separate schools for Catholic children as long ago as 1918, in response to the endemic bullying of these children by the Presbyterian majority. Remember too, that Scottish and N. Irish newspapers routinely carried job adverts with "Catholics need not apply" at the bottom, a practice which continued until the late 50s.

I do believe that the time is now ripe to start making some progress towards the integration of faith schools, but I fear it`s a nettle that politicians are scared to grasp, in case it costs them votes. I doubt we`ll see it in our life times.

"Separating schools based on religion is a nonsense. I`m sure many local authorities would love to do away with this but it`s obviously very political. Seems ridiculous that that the new Woodmill and St C`s will share a campus but remain separate."

I think I`ve answered your post above, Jake. The irony is that over 90% of people in Scotland, of all faiths, are not regular church attenders, so religion is not an important part of their lives. A further irony, in the example you allude to, is that St Columba`s HS would not be viable if it was only attended by children from Catholic families. I don`t know what the proportion is now, but when I taught there, there were approx 400 pupils out of 900 who were not Catholics but attended through parental choice. I can`t give you any indication of the breakdown at Woodmill, but I know of two Catholic families who chose to send their children there instead of St Columba`s, so there already is some unplanned integration.

"I worked on contract jobs in Belfast for 2 years and it was council so worked either side of Shankhill road estates….. that was a massive



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Mon 5 Jul 08:06

Oops! Cut off in my prime. :-)

"I worked on contract jobs in Belfast for 2 years and it was council so worked either side of Shankhill road estates….. that was a massive eye opener as a 26 year old lad.
You were told by the locals when you could enter each estate and as our standard uniform was blue I was given black unbranded and all vans were not sign written etc. All sides of houses painted with slogans and pavements in colours… 4 x 12hr shifts and you could tell you were getting watched all the time…"

I was in NI myself a couple of years ago. Walking along "Derry`s Walls" immortalised in song by fans of a certain Glasgow club, was a real eyeopener for me, too. Huge murals of young boys, shot by British soldiers on the Catholic side and red, white and blue kerbstones and Union flags on the other. People on both sides regarded us with suspicious glances all the while.

It made me profoundly sad to think that here we have people of the same nationality who have to live separately in a fragile peace which could explode into violence at any time.



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 5 Jul 13:12

That's partly my point, GG. There should be no need for St C's. They should be at Lochgelly, Beath, Dunfermline etc. I suspect a fair few of the students there are there because their parents see it as a better school than the catchment one.

Let's be honest, religion is just an excuse here. It's preominantly people from Irish and Scottish backgrounds being mean to each other. It shouldn't be tolerated in 21st Century Scotland but continues to be brushed under the carpet.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Mon 5 Jul 13:21

Some parents here in Lochgelly didn't want their kids to go to Lochgelly High due to its reputation, they sent them to Beath High instead.

They found out later that the latter was no better, regular shoplifting trips at lunchtime was the normal in those days, think the new head got it sorted.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: MDCCCLXXXV  
Date:   Mon 5 Jul 13:44

The Catholic primary (St Kenneths) in Ballingry has taught in non-Catholics for as far back as I can remember , as has St Pats in Lochgelly. I also remember loads of Catholics attending Ballingry high school in the 80's. My nephew has 3 kids at St Kenneth's, neither him or his wife are Catholics, they just didn't want their kids going to Benarty primary.

East End Park is a symbol of all that is DAFC.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Mon 5 Jul 13:59

sectarianism has nothing to do with the fact that your next door neighbour went to St. C`s and you went to Dunfermline High... in the modern day, religious based sectarianism is nothing more than a front for aggressive and often violent nationalism - and that`s true whether you`re talking about what`s been going on in NI, RoI or Scotland - change the religions and you could just as easily be talking about the Balkans

all of those negative behaviours are learned at home, so even if all kids went to lochgelly and sat next to each other in double maths... there`d still be idiots in the lodges that evening

There`s no separate school for white kids but we still have racism

what i find most sad is folk like the Orange Order (and all the idiot hangers on and saturday afternoon bigots - which i don`t believe you can be BTW) who celebrate what has happened in (the island of) Ireland.

Why any sane person or organisation could find pleasure in (and want to propagate) the recent history in Northern Ireland is beyond me - it`s been nothing short of tragic for all directly and/or indirectly involved

edited to say this was always the saddest bit about Brexit for me, the more European we all become, the less these sort of things would matter… I could say I’m from Scotland and you say your from Britain but it doesn’t matter as we’re both European and that’s the overriding identity. Basque, Catalan or Spanish/Irish or British/Flemish or Belgian - irrelevant as both European,

Post Edited (Mon 05 Jul 14:52)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 5 Jul 14:54

Society needs to learn from the past and move on.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Mon 5 Jul 16:32

Excellent post DBP.

Quote:

jake89, Mon 5 Jul 13:12

That's partly my point, GG. There should be no need for St C's. They should be at Lochgelly, Beath, Dunfermline etc. I suspect a fair few of the students there are there because their parents see it as a better school than the catchment one.

Let's be honest, religion is just an excuse here. It's preominantly people from Irish and Scottish backgrounds being mean to each other. It shouldn't be tolerated in 21st Century Scotland but continues to be brushed under the carpet.


You can argue there's no need, but it will remain as long as its roll makes it a viable school. West Fife parents, from non denominational backgrounds, who choose to send their children there believe they will get a more rounded education - I'm not in a position to comment on that but if the demand is there it will continue. Tbh, Fife could probably integrate all its schools with minimum fallout but the same could not be said of some other regions, particularly Glasgow, Lanarkshire and Ayrshire, where suspicion, mistrust and prejudice are still all too apparent.



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 5 Jul 17:03

I perhaps live in an ideal world where kids go to the local school and each school is given what it needs to best support its kids. I don't think it's bad in Fife but in Edinburgh you'd have people renting flats near the good schools to get their kids in before they'd end their lease. What these parents miss is that the best thing they can do is ensure their child is supported outside of school and given encouragement.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: parsmad68  
Date:   Mon 5 Jul 17:25

Quote:

jake89, Mon 05 Jul 17:03

I perhaps live in an ideal world where kids go to the local school and each school is given what it needs to best support its kids. I don't think it's bad in Fife but in Edinburgh you'd have people renting flats near the good schools to get their kids in before they'd end their lease. What these parents miss is that the best thing they can do is ensure their child is supported outside of school and given encouragement.




Definitely happens in Fife. Both my kids moved their family for catchment area reasons but you may be correct that it seems less prevalent than city areas. More now than anytime previously parents have a larger influence in a child’s education due to the pandemic.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: MDCCCLXXXV  
Date:   Mon 5 Jul 17:36

I used to go on the Rangers bus in the early 80s, I met one of the guys I used to go with in a pub a few years back, he told me that him and his brother were members of the OO. I have to admit I was shocked as he never came across as anything but a really nice guy. I was more shocked to find his brother that was in the OO travelled all over watching Celtic,

East End Park is a symbol of all that is DAFC.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 5 Jul 17:46

This is what Scotland's up against - mother can't touch the green part of a Norwich scarf as she's a Rangers supporter. Take it she also doesn't like grass, trees, vegetables etc?

Billy Gilmour's mum doesn't like green
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: parsmad68  
Date:   Mon 5 Jul 18:11

Quote:

jake89, Mon 05 Jul 17:46

This is what Scotland's up against - mother can't touch the green part of a Norwich scarf as she's a Rangers supporter. Take it she also doesn't like grass, trees, vegetables etc?

Billy Gilmour's mum doesn't like green



No vegetables in her diet. Just in her heid!
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Mon 5 Jul 20:15

Strangely enough Gilmour`s father is a Celtic fan and his son actually started off as Celtic youth before he switched to Rangers because it was easier for his dad to take him there as it was closer.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Mon 5 Jul 20:45

Just for a bit of balance... (and in no way do I support their beliefs)... I know three guys in the O O... All three are very nice guys. 2 of them. I've known since 1987.
They never talk about it though.
Must be a big secret 🤣


[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Tue 6 Jul 14:44

Quote:

widtink, Mon 5 Jul 20:45

Just for a bit of balance... (and in no way do I support their beliefs)... I know three guys in the O O... All three are very nice guys. 2 of them. I've known since 1987.
They never talk about it though.
Must be a big secret 🤣


Certainly the Masons is all about the ability to keep a secret. The higher you get the bigger the secrets become. Allegedly, it's all about the abuse of little boys
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Tue 6 Jul 15:10

Quote:

red-star-par, Tue 6 Jul 14:44

Quote:

widtink, Mon 5 Jul 20:45

Just for a bit of balance... (and in no way do I support their beliefs)... I know three guys in the O O... All three are very nice guys. 2 of them. I've known since 1987.
They never talk about it though.
Must be a big secret 🤣


Certainly the Masons is all about the ability to keep a secret. The higher you get the bigger the secrets become. Allegedly, it's all about the abuse of little boys


I fervently hope there's not a shred of truth in that allegation, Red Star. We have more than enough paedophiles in other groups of society.



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: The Orange Order
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Tue 6 Jul 16:28

this is by no means trying to indirectly appoint guilt or trying to add weight to red star`s claim... but i have been listening to a podcast called Bad People hosted by a criminal physcologist...

i`ve just started listening to it and episode 9 (which i`ve just finished) is on that very subject... what shocked me was that there is two groups when it comes to paedophiles and abuse of kids

abuse is behaviour and may not be about primary fantasy or sexual attraction to children (so abusers of kids may not be actually be paedophiles - more it`s abuse of power and kids are easier victims, ease of access, etc

fantasy is where you have a primary or at least a sexual attraction to children and the scary stat is that according to the national crime agency, here in the UK, 1 in 35 adult males falls into this category - the great majority do not act upon that fantasy but even so!

so any convergence on a large scale of like-minded people on either of those two subjects would not surprise me

anyway - its a pretty good and informative podcast: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p08lj2sz

[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Top of Board  |  Forum List  |  Threaded View   Forum Rules  |  Newer Topic  |  Older Topic  |  end 


Rows: 0
 Forum List  |  Need a Login? Register Here 
 User Login
 User Name:
 Password:
 Remember my login:
   
 Forgot Your Password?
Enter your email address or user name below and a new password will be sent to the email address associated with your profile.
Security : type 'pars' in the box:
email:
© 2021-- DAFC.net