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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Fri 20 May 16:59
The train now leaving
Is the last of the evening
It’s not very late
Just gone eight
so if you’re frae Fife
run for your life!
To compound the impending impact on folk looking to enjoy a drink, a meal, take in a show, the world’s biggest arts festival is just few months away. What a country, what a state.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 20 May 17:15
There`s an awful lot of criticism around of all these cancellations but I haven`t actually seen any constructive alternative solutions to the problem pending resolution of the pay dispute. I know train drivers do a very responsible job which requires a lot of training but I must admit I was staggered to learn they earn over £50,000 pa. I wonder if the travelling public are aware of that?
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 20 May 17:40
The issue is that if wages go up, ticket prices go up.
Everyone is feeling the pinch so increasing prices will reduce users. If you have fewer users then then you reduce the service. Reducing the service means fewer rail staff required.
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Topic Originator: P
Date: Fri 20 May 21:09
If their ongoing resourcing plan is to depend on people working their rest days then their model is broken already
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Topic Originator: P
Date: Fri 20 May 21:16
Quote:
wee eck, Fri 20 May 17:15
There`s an awful lot of criticism around of all these cancellations but I haven`t actually seen any constructive alternative solutions to the problem pending resolution of the pay dispute. I know train drivers do a very responsible job which requires a lot of training but I must admit I was staggered to learn they earn over £50,000 pa. I wonder if the travelling public are aware of that?
That seems rather dismissive of train drivers, how much do you think they should earn?
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 20 May 21:46
How is it dismissive to say they do a very responsible job which requires a lot of training? I`m never been clear how salaries are arrived at for various jobs in the public sector and how to evaluate a train driver against, say, a teacher, a policeman or a nurse. With no idea how it`s done I thought a train driver might earn between £35,000 and £40,000.
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Topic Originator: P
Date: Fri 20 May 22:03
To say I wonder if the travelling public are aware of that reads to say that the travelling public should be outraged that they earn this amount of money
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Topic Originator: doctordandruff
Date: Fri 20 May 22:03
The TFL drivers earn an astonishing amount due to their ability to grind London to a hault if they down tools.
There are undergrounds around the World that operate without drivers at all. It`s only a matter of time before London bites the bullet and gets rid of them.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 20 May 22:16
`To say I wonder if the travelling public are aware of that reads to say that the travelling public should be outraged that they earn this amount of money`
Not `should be outraged` but maybe `would be surprised` or even `staggered` as I was.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 20 May 22:44
Would be shocked or surprised if a bus driver earned 50k per annum?
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 21 May 00:00
Yes, I would be. I`m not sure what point you are making.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sat 21 May 00:57
I wasn`t actually directing that at you Eck. Why should a bus driver be paid less than a train driver? I mean what level of training does a train driver require to do their job?
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sat 21 May 06:40
I`ve never driven a train or bus but I can guarantee their job is mentally and physically more demanding than mine.
I don`t know the ins and outs of the offer but a 2% rise seems pretty good in the current situation.
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Topic Originator: rikaka
Date: Sat 21 May 06:45
Why would you see 2% as good? The job market is booming, there is a driver shortage and inflation is at 10%
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sat 21 May 06:59
"in the current situation". 🙂
I`m not seeing many massive pay rises going on right now. Whilst I think rail workers (and EVERYONE) need decent rises, I do think it`s a difficult one to achieve without raising ticket prices.
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Sat 21 May 09:57
If the £50,000 figure is accurate (employers often use a headline wage to suggest all workers are paid that amount) then according to figures on here last week, that means train drivers are being paid about half the money of a couple of Dunfermline Athletic players.
Pars players carry responsibility too and can drive us into deep depression when they get things wrong, but if a train driver slips up then it might be a matter of life and death. He or she can also be jailed if there are fatalities due to negligence, whereas financiers who crash the economy are more likely to be rewarded with a knighthood.
sammer
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Sat 21 May 10:19
The current situation for employers is really challenging. The amount of flexibility in the job market means that folks are often negotiating higher salaries than expected given the market competition.
If it goes on for much longer I suspect there will be a noticeable difference between long term and more recent employees.
This is going to be particularly tricky for normally long tenure professions (I`m assuming drivers generally have longer than average tenure).
Roll that into a high inflation environment and it is a bit of nightmare. When family budgets are already tight, 10 percent inflation is a big impact on most. 2 percent isn`t enough IMO.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 21 May 10:22
Comparing train drivers` pay with footballers` pay is maybe not that meaningful given that the latter is heavily distorted by TV money. A comparison with, say, nurses` pay would be more meaningful.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sat 21 May 10:38
Employers are dealing with people getting hacked off generally rather than just about pay and leaving. The concept of a job for life is over.
Rail workers have slightly less choice but not really any different to a public sector worker where grades/bands are the same.
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Topic Originator: widtink
Date: Sat 21 May 14:46
I know 2 bus drivers.... Neither of them are on anywhere near 50k for info.
Think but not sure its about 30... Ish
Admin
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Sat 21 May 16:21
My mate is a train driver who after privatisation started getting paid a fortune…
He often says that he’s really glad he didn’t get an education as he earns more than a lot of our professional friends
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Topic Originator: arpar
Date: Sat 21 May 16:41
If you were earning 50k a year why would you feel it necessary to work you rest days. Surely train drivers have a life outside work like everyone else.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sat 21 May 17:37
Quote:
arpar, Sat 21 May 16:41
If you were earning 50k a year why would you feel it necessary to work you rest days. Surely train drivers have a life outside work like everyone else.
Is it not written into their contracts? There`s a driver shortage due to COVID.
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Topic Originator: rikaka
Date: Sat 21 May 20:48
To earn more?
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Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu
Date: Sat 21 May 21:55
The Scottish Rail system is dependent on driver`s and guards doing overtime which is pretty poor management .
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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Sun 22 May 07:56
The management of Scotrail is now in the hands of ex Uni vice chancellor Joanne Maguire, whose only experience of running trains is running to catch one.
You couldn’t make it up.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Sun 22 May 08:03
How many MSPs have experience of running a railway ?
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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Sun 22 May 08:16
...or ferries and an airport? They have might as well go for the hat trick
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Topic Originator: P
Date: Sun 22 May 08:31
Quote:
wee eck, Sat 21 May 10:22
Comparing train drivers` pay with footballers` pay is maybe not that meaningful given that the latter is heavily distorted by TV money. A comparison with, say, nurses` pay would be more meaningful.
I know pilots who are responsible for a similar amount of peoples lives (and remember airplanes take off and land by wire these days) and they earn £150k plus so is that a better comparison?
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Topic Originator: P
Date: Sun 22 May 08:33
Quote:
arpar, Sat 21 May 16:41
If you were earning 50k a year why would you feel it necessary to work you rest days. Surely train drivers have a life outside work like everyone else.
If I earned £50k pa I would work every opportunity I can as I couldn’t get by on that so it’s all perspective- £50k to one person is a lot but to another it really is not
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sun 22 May 10:08
Comparing train drivers` pay with pilots` is certainly more meaningful than comparing it with footballers` who, certainly at the top level, are part of the entertainment industry where different factors come into play in determining remuneration. You could then question why pilots are paid a lot more than train drivers. I don`t know the answer but could it be linked to the educational qualifications and training required for the respective jobs? As I said earlier it has always puzzled me how salaries in different jobs are arrived at. Maybe there`s a `formula` that gives different weights to different factors.
On the subject of governments `running` public services, is this really the case? Does public ownership entail day-to-day management? Wouldn`t that be like saying the shareholders of a big public company were responsible for its performance and efficiency? A lot of the scandals that come to light and are placed at the door of governments must be the responsibility of the people working in the failing organisations eg clinicians at a hospital, designers or engineers involved in the construction of a building or public work. Governments may be involved in appointing professionals involved in these enterprises but often seem to take a disproportionate part of the blame when things go wrong.
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Topic Originator: arpar
Date: Sun 22 May 10:15
Quote:
P, Sun 22 May 08:33
Quote:
arpar, Sat 21 May 16:41
If you were earning 50k a year why would you feel it necessary to work you rest days. Surely train drivers have a life outside work like everyone else.
If I earned £50k pa I would work every opportunity I can as I couldn’t get by on that so it’s all perspective- £50k to one person is a lot but to another it really is not
What are you trying to earn the money for though if you don`t get any time off?
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Topic Originator: P
Date: Sun 22 May 13:09
Quote:
arpar, Sun 22 May 10:15
Quote:
P, Sun 22 May 08:33
Quote:
arpar, Sat 21 May 16:41
If you were earning 50k a year why would you feel it necessary to work you rest days. Surely train drivers have a life outside work like everyone else.
If I earned £50k pa I would work every opportunity I can as I couldn’t get by on that so it’s all perspective- £50k to one person is a lot but to another it really is not
What are you trying to earn the money for though if you don`t get any time off?
Maybe to give their families the best life available 🤷🏻
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sun 22 May 13:11
The average wage in Scotland is 30 per annum. Which I know will probably surprise many who are struggling by on a lot less. Less than 10% are in top tax band which kicks in at 43k.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: arpar
Date: Sun 22 May 13:20
Quote:
P, Sun 22 May 13:09
Quote:
arpar, Sun 22 May 10:15
Quote:
P, Sun 22 May 08:33
Quote:
arpar, Sat 21 May 16:41
If you were earning 50k a year why would you feel it necessary to work you rest days. Surely train drivers have a life outside work like everyone else.
If I earned £50k pa I would work every opportunity I can as I couldn’t get by on that so it’s all perspective- £50k to one person is a lot but to another it really is not
What are you trying to earn the money for though if you don`t get any time off?
Maybe to give their families the best life available 🤷🏻
Money doesn`t give your family the best life. Spending time with them is more important. Something you can`t do if your always at work.
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Topic Originator: P
Date: Sun 22 May 13:40
Quote:
arpar, Sun 22 May 13:20
Quote:
P, Sun 22 May 13:09
Quote:
arpar, Sun 22 May 10:15
Quote:
P, Sun 22 May 08:33
Quote:
arpar, Sat 21 May 16:41
If you were earning 50k a year why would you feel it necessary to work you rest days. Surely train drivers have a life outside work like everyone else.
If I earned £50k pa I would work every opportunity I can as I couldn’t get by on that so it’s all perspective- £50k to one person is a lot but to another it really is not
What are you trying to earn the money for though if you don`t get any time off?
Maybe to give their families the best life available 🤷🏻
Money doesn`t give your family the best life. Spending time with them is more important. Something you can`t do if your always at work.
It’s not for you or I to tell people how to prioritise their time
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Sun 22 May 17:20
Quote:
Parboiled, Sun 22 May 08:16
...or ferries and an airport? They have might as well go for the hat trick
I suspect you’ve missed the point - ministers with specific portfolios have civil service with expertise in the relevant area.
When was a former soldier, for example, appointed Minister of Defence at UK level ?
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Sun 22 May 18:15
Quote:
veteraneastender, Sun 22 May 17:20
Quote:
Parboiled, Sun 22 May 08:16
...or ferries and an airport? They have might as well go for the hat trick
I suspect you’ve missed the point - ministers with specific portfolios have civil service with expertise in the relevant area.
When was a former soldier, for example, appointed Minister of Defence at UK level ?
Lol....yes, that would never happen.😀
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Sun 22 May 18:20
The late George Younger - exception to the rule perhaps ?
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sun 22 May 18:35
Far be it from me to defend the Tories but isn`t Ben Wallace an ex-soldier?
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Sun 22 May 19:23
Quote:
wee eck, Sun 22 May 18:35
Far be it from me to defend the Tories but isn`t Ben Wallace an ex-soldier?
Hence my lol....
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 22 May 19:43
Wait until people find out Humza Yousaf wasn`t a nurse and Shirley-Anne Somerville wasn`t a head teacher 😂
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Mon 23 May 10:45
Quote:
ipswichpar, Sun 22 May 19:23
Quote:
wee eck, Sun 22 May 18:35
Far be it from me to defend the Tories but isn`t Ben Wallace an ex-soldier?
Hence my lol....
Not sure, good spot.
Does our Transport Minister need to have been a train or bus driver ?
Keith Brown was an ex Marine.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Mon 23 May 12:26
`Keith Brown was an ex Marine.`
He still is.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Mon 23 May 15:29
Scottish Government getting pelters for this despite inheriting the pay dispute that was ongoing prior to renationalisation, even DROSS putting in his twopenceworth.
Meanwhile down south a national rail strike could be called this week, with the Tories trying to take the union to court, to prevent them from striking!
Going to get interesting!🤔😲🤬
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Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Mon 23 May 15:46
On the subject of pay. The £50k is a headline pay. This is dependent upon the run. Not every driver receives this.
I remember seeing before Dunkeld bend an intercity train managing to stop short in time of a tree down. It was a matter of feet in a blind bend. This is where these lads earn their money and have my total respect.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Mon 23 May 16:05
Douglas Ross may want to be careful. It`s looking likely there will be a strike affecting services in England, Wales and parts of Scotland.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Mon 23 May 17:18
Quote:
wee eck, Mon 23 May 12:26
`Keith Brown was an ex Marine.`
He still is.
True, but he is no longer Transport Minister.
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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Wed 25 May 16:16
On Monday the Current Transport minister took time off from doing sod about the Scotrail shambles to grandstand at the opening of a new station at Reston in the borders.
It should have a reliable service, Scotrail don’t go there
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