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Topic Originator: twin par
Date: Wed 10 Aug 22:51
Let me get this right.Over the years,I have read,about some outrageous,behaviour, from that area.I was brought up in wedderburn crescent.Nae angels, We,had the odd fall out with neighbours, but nothing physical.In izatt, Drugs,alcohol abuse,seems to be common place,and that`s involving youngsters. Where have the parenting skills gone ? Spoke ,to the janny, at St.leonards,a while ago, and he,told me that the behaviour, of the parents, and pupils,is horrific. No respect, for staff,if you pulled the kids up,you got abuse,from the parents,and that includes violent threats.Where,has respect gone for people, that are trying to teach their kids?
Post Edited (Wed 10 Aug 23:12)
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Thu 11 Aug 02:13
We’re of a similar age I think and both denizens of Abbey View housing estate which had a poor reputation when I was growing up there. The street I lived in was, a policeman once told my mother, known as ‘Little Chicago.’ A ridiculous exaggeration I’m sure for my memories are similar to yours in terms of abiding by the law. According to policemen, teachers and the older generation, things are always going to the dogs.
Unfortunately, the problem is that they might be right. Foreign visitors who have accompanied me on my visits back to the UK are surprised by the casual yobbishness they see in public places. Litter is a serious problem: Britain must be one of the dirtiest countries in Europe. Public female drunkenness, which I never saw in China, Italy or Russia, is a feature of many high streets at weekends from Brighton through Hull to Dunfermline. Police presence seems negligible in areas where you might expect them to anticipate problems with public disorder. Law abiding citizens are nervous when confronted with anti-social behaviour, whereas in other countries they confidently confront such breaches, believing that they will be supported by fellow citizens and the swift arrival of the police.
It’s easy to point a finger at the police or the legal system but I think the main problem is the deterioration of civic society. A poncey phrase I admit, but unless a person has a sense of obligation to something bigger than himself then anything goes really. Good parents have always inculcated this in their children but the problem is the shamelessness of those who have not. After all they claim, in some perverted misunderstanding of their democratic rights, who are you to tell me how to bring up my kids? They demand their rights and fail to execute their duties. Much of this trickles down from the political and economic system but I will leave that argument for the politics forum.
sammer
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 11 Aug 07:06
That part of Dunfermline is almost separated from the rest as it sits to one side between a dual carriageway and the railway line. I suspect it`s been the dumping ground for a couple of bad families, which is all it takes to ruin a whole area.
I don`t know the ins and outs, but things like poor access to mental health support, reduced policing and minimum unit pricing, which has pushed many with alcohol problems onto cheap drugs, have all had effects in recent years.
My kids are at a really good school. However, there are still plenty of bam parents. You hear them before you see them. Nothing is their fault, always the school.
Abbeyview isn`t like how it used to be. Most of it is well kept and the people are decent. What`s likely happened is some of bad ones from Abbeyview have ended up in Izatt Avenue. They`ll cause issues there before being moved to Rosyth and then to Touch and then...
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Topic Originator: twin par
Date: Thu 11 Aug 10:13
Good post sammer.Great points.
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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Thu 11 Aug 11:27
UK Town centres can be awful as the night wears on, and I can only comment on the comparative behaviour of locals in the limited number of countries I’ve visited.
Some raucous but non threatening in Canada and USA. Nothing much to recall in Europe, though admittedly we are not late nighters and pick quiet areas anyway.
Italy is our favourite. I can honestly say never saw any drunkenness at all. It’s not the place for touristy young groups and clubbers and I believe Italians regard such behaviour by their fellow citizens as weak and to be pitied.
Post Edited (Thu 11 Aug 11:36)
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Topic Originator: Digs
Date: Thu 11 Aug 12:37
I grew up in Brucefield, John St to be precise, and that area has always been like that. When I say `like that`, I mean a few folk who were well known by their reputations, ie the same as every other working class area.
The rest of the area round there is full of normal families. You have a few council houses left, lots of private owners and quite a few private lets and social housing too. That being the case, the demographic is always going to be mixed.
It`s no rougher than any other working class area in Dunfermline like Abbeyview, Townhill, Headwell, Wellwood etc.
No-on there is doing anything different from what they were doing 30-40 years ago, trust me. I knew just as many bams from Wedderburn as I did Izatt Avenue.
Post Edited (Thu 11 Aug 12:38)
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Topic Originator: Grant
Date: Thu 11 Aug 14:05
Nice house went up for sale in Izatt Avenue a couple of weeks back.
Interesting post sammer but why the specification on female drunkenness, is this any worse than male drunkenness?
Concur about how dirty it is though, just back from Munich which is absolutely pristine.
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Topic Originator: widtink
Date: Thu 11 Aug 14:27
As someone who has lived in various locations in and around the town... Touch, kingseat, Abbey view,Rosyth, Cairneyhill, Rosyth again. And lived in Inverness for a year... I can confirm that there are bams in every area you go but there`s also a lot more good people than bams.
I`d hazard a guess that the "good people to bams" ratio© (if that`s a thing... If not im copyrighting it) ... Is about 5 to 1...or maybe even 6 or 7 to 1.
Certainly in my street alone there are about 6 or 7 bams... But about 30 odd ish good decent folks.
Obviously more research needs to be done on this important subject.
I suggest a "bam vs good folk count" something along the lines of the national census.
Maybe im considered "a bam" by other folk.
What makes "a bam"?
Its all very complicated and open to interpretation.
What i consider to be "bam ish behaviour" might be the norm for someone else.
So who decides if you`re a bam or a normal person?
If i swear at the guy in front of me when he stalls his car when the traffic lights go to green am i then labelled a bam? Even though i consider myself as not being a bam... I could be.
Can bam status be redeemed or is once a bam always a bam?
I`m pretty sure from about high school til sometime in my 30s i was probably a bam. And sometimes still i can be "bamish"©(if that`s a word... If not im copyrighting it).but my bamish behavior doesn`t last long.
But does that mean I`m a bam for life?
All very complicated I`m sure you will agree.
Admin
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 11 Aug 14:59
I saw that house you saw, Grant. I think it may still be up. Well priced and looked quite nice.
It only takes one family to ruin an area.
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Thu 11 Aug 16:13
Pretty good post there from Sammer. I reckon the lack of respect and tolerance for other people and the reduction in community values stems directly from Maggie Thatchers time in power. Izatt area is probably not bad, with regard to the majority of people that live there, and has probably been brought down by the behaviour of generations of a particularly bad family
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Thu 11 Aug 17:00
Hi Grant,
Yes, showing my age regarding the reference to female drunkenness in public. I can remember when women were not allowed in bars; there were lounge bar areas open at weekends where they could go – but only if in male company.
Drunkenness is generally tolerated, in fact even encouraged, within UK culture as evidence of a good night out. Newspapers with contempt for common people- like the Sun and the Daily Express- revel in publishing photos of drunk women tottering around in high heels to convince us that Britain is the most fun place around. A few days later expect to see some editorial condemning binge drinking and feckless motherhood.
I think Digs is right to warn about imagining some golden age of good civic behaviour in the past. But there have been changes in how society is shaped and how people see themselves within it. If the term ‘bog standard’ is bandied around regarding state schools then a bad parent has an easy excuse when their offspring are disrupting learning. When the term ‘social housing’ is used to indicate failure for those who have not joined the ‘property ladder’ (an admission that the housing ‘market’ is about accumulating wealth) then bad neighbours can shrug their shoulders as their children run amuck through back gardens. Private=good; public=second rate; this has been a mantra for some time and has had its effects.
sammer
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 11 Aug 17:36
I`ll be the exception to the rule. I`ve owned three properties. All were privately owned but different types and with different tenancy of the neighbours. No matter where I`ve been there`s always at least one bammy or weird neighbour.
My view is that if you think there`s no bams on your street, you`re the bam 😂
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Topic Originator: twin par
Date: Thu 11 Aug 23:11
I am 65,remember, being told by my dad,stay clear of wardlaw . And a lot of folks won`t agree , but it was trouble .Went round once and got our bikes nicked. Lesson learned .Some kids ,are brought up with had no respect, or morals,scum bag parents,and generations of them in families. I could name them,but would only get myself into bother.
Post Edited (Thu 11 Aug 23:48)
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Fri 12 Aug 00:31
Wardlaw and Halkett Crescents were considered places best avoided in the 1960s, but I imagine if you actually lived there then things would be reasonably OK. I was taught by a young woman who lived there and she was given the Qualifying class in Primary 7 because she had the knack of getting good results. She was also ferocious: it was Fergie hair drier treatment with the belt as backup. Not a woman to be crossed, so for boys starting to kick against the traces just what we needed. I can’t believe any hooligan from Halkett or Wardlaw would have had the nerve to play ‘chap door run’ at her expense.
Years later I was told that when talking about the difficult homes some of her pupils came from, she used to become quite tearful and upset. So although she dealt ruthlessly with the symptoms of bad behaviour she wasn’t blind to the causes.
sammer
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Topic Originator: twin par
Date: Fri 12 Aug 01:06
Agree,sammer. Think we are of same generation.
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Topic Originator: Grant
Date: Mon 15 Aug 11:31
Fair Sammer and thanks for explaining your train of thought, it`s not something that bothers me massively but I see where you`re coming from.
Interesting that Halket has been brought up, it`s where I grew up and it was an absolute hole.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Mon 15 Aug 12:48
Is the likes of Halkett Crescent still bad? Always look alright anytime I`ve been down that way. I was always under the impression that the bad bits of Abbeyview/Brucefield were the flats that were demolished to make way for the newish houses on Trondheim Parkway.
Most of Abbeyview looks perfectly presentable these days. The Co-op building is a bit of a state due to being subdivided and extended.
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Topic Originator: Grant
Date: Tue 16 Aug 00:01
Quote:
jake89, Mon 15 Aug 12:48
Is the likes of Halkett Crescent still bad? Always look alright anytime I`ve been down that way. I was always under the impression that the bad bits of Abbeyview/Brucefield were the flats that were demolished to make way for the newish houses on Trondheim Parkway.
Most of Abbeyview looks perfectly presentable these days. The Co-op building is a bit of a state due to being subdivided and extended.
No idea truthfully, I`ve not lived there for over a decade now.
Apparently it`s not too bad, they knocked down half of wardlaw and re built it aswell into it`s current version of Leishman Drive.
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