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 Antibiotics
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 20 Oct 08:01

An Italian news channel is reporting that the UK HEALTH minister is proposing to allow antibiotics to be sold over the counter, without prescriptions. What an absolute idiot! This will accelerate the evolution of superbacteria which are immune to these antibiotics. Utter madness.

Apparently, some people have been taking them when they`ve had Covid, against which antibiotics are completely ineffective.



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 Re: Antibiotics
Topic Originator: EastEndTales  
Date:   Thu 20 Oct 08:30

If people are stupid enough...

Ep. 4 of East End Tales is out now with Colin Miller, talking about Tannadice from 1996

https://www.buzzsprout.com/1972630/11735127
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 Re: Antibiotics
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 20 Oct 09:25

Quote:

EastEndTales, Thu 20 Oct 08:30

If people are stupid enough...


There`s a limit to human intelligence, but not to stupidity. 🙁

Why would the health minister want to make antibiotics more readily available? I can`t believe she`s sought medical opinion on her proposal. She might even be more stupid than those who have taken them for Covid.



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 Re: Antibiotics
Topic Originator: EastEndTales  
Date:   Thu 20 Oct 10:09

Probably pharmaceutical money. Always money with the tories, never assume otherwise.

Ep. 4 of East End Tales is out now with Colin Miller, talking about Tannadice from 1996

https://www.buzzsprout.com/1972630/11735127
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 Re: Antibiotics
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Thu 20 Oct 11:09

I think she admitted that she had given antibiotics to relatives, some she had leftover!🤔

She ain`t the sharpest tool in the box!🤑
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 Re: Antibiotics
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Thu 20 Oct 11:14

Quote:

LochgellyAlbert, Thu 20 Oct 11:09

I think she admitted that she had given antibiotics to relatives, some she had leftover!🤔

She ain`t the sharpest tool in the box!🤑


But she is a tool.

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 Re: Antibiotics
Topic Originator: TAFKA_Super_Petrie  
Date:   Thu 20 Oct 11:16

Would be handy for stuff like tonsilitis (sp?) if you get it often enough you know what the script is; quick flash of your phone torch to confirm the white puss and then phone the Drs to then be told you have to attend in person for them to just do exactly the same process and write you a line for penicillin/amoxycillin etc.

Appreciate it`s not as cut and dry as that in all cases but as an example it does seem a bit of a waste on resources and appointment slot.

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 Re: Antibiotics
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 20 Oct 11:36

Resistance to antibiotics directly results in well over one million deaths globally each year and is a contributing factor in another five million deaths. That`s covid levels of death each year and it`s only going to get worse. Two things can help ease this crisis. One is to stop the unnecessary issuing and improper use of antibiotics.
The other way is to develop new antibiotics. I believe they have only discovered one new type of antibiotic in the last forty years.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: Antibiotics
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Thu 20 Oct 11:41

As someone that works in healthcare, the number of times someone demands antibiotics for quite literally anything would shock you. You`ll have people taking these on the regular thinking it`ll help them with a cold, flu or with that sore back they`ve had for years.
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 Re: Antibiotics
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 20 Oct 12:15

Quote:

TAFKA_Super_Petrie, Thu 20 Oct 11:16

Would be handy for stuff like tonsilitis (sp?) if you get it often enough you know what the script is; quick flash of your phone torch to confirm the white puss and then phone the Drs to then be told you have to attend in person for them to just do exactly the same process and write you a line for penicillin/amoxycillin etc.

Appreciate it`s not as cut and dry as that in all cases but as an example it does seem a bit of a waste on resources and appointment slot.


My son used to get tonsilitis about once a fortnight when he started school. Our GP used to automatically prescribe amoxicillin. I knew it wasn`t effective against viral infections, so I asked him how he could tell if it was viral or bacterial? He said he couldn`t and that 80% of the time it was viral but he prescribed it anyway as it wouldn`t do any harm and if it was bacterial it would help. 😨

He ended up getting his tonsils out a year later. Doctors are far less likely to prescribe them so indiscriminately nowadays.



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 Re: Antibiotics
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 20 Oct 12:16

Quote:

Andrew283, Thu 20 Oct 11:41

As someone that works in healthcare, the number of times someone demands antibiotics for quite literally anything would shock you. You`ll have people taking these on the regular thinking it`ll help them with a cold, flu or with that sore back they`ve had for years.


I refer you to my post at 9.25, Andrew. 🙂



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 Re: Antibiotics
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Thu 20 Oct 14:21

What Coffey said about handing out her unused medicines to relatives etc was disgraceful and stupid. Someone who has been prescribed a course of medication should take it to the end, to avoid the situation where bacteria survive the initial dose and develop resistance to the medicine

But her point about using pharmacies to prescribe antibiotics actually has some merit. In Scotland there is already the NHS Pharmacy First Scotland service, which allows specified community pharmacies to offer treatment (including some antibiotics) to patients presenting with certain minor conditions. This is NOT a free-for-all, there are strict controls on the training of the pharmacists and the conditions they can prescribe for.

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 Re: Antibiotics
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 20 Oct 19:17

Quote:

Stanza, Thu 20 Oct 14:21

What Coffey said about handing out her unused medicines to relatives etc was disgraceful and stupid. Someone who has been prescribed a course of medication should take it to the end, to avoid the situation where bacteria survive the initial dose and develop resistance to the medicine

But her point about using pharmacies to prescribe antibiotics actually has some merit. In Scotland there is already the NHS Pharmacy First Scotland service, which allows specified community pharmacies to offer treatment (including some antibiotics) to patients presenting with certain minor conditions. This is NOT a free-for-all, there are strict controls on the training of the pharmacists and the conditions they can prescribe for.


Your post provides a bit of perspective, Stanza, but it still arguably makes it easier for people to obtain antibiotics they may not need to take. It`s not inconceivable that at least some pharmacists may dish out medicines more readily than GPs.

I`ve been in Italy and a young guy on a building site managed to get a bit of mortar in his eye. He went to the local pharmacy and was told by the pharmacist to wash his eye out with cold water and given some eye drops. I told him to get along to A&E. They cleaned out his eye, put him on antibiotics and gave him an eye patch to wear for 3 days....



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 Re: Antibiotics
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Thu 20 Oct 19:33

No they won`t G.G. They are all well trained and responsible and will not hand out medication to all and sundry

Well done for your advice to the boy

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Antibiotics
Topic Originator: Parfect68  
Date:   Thu 20 Oct 20:48

Quote:

GG Riva, Thu 20 Oct 19:17

Quote:

Stanza, Thu 20 Oct 14:21

What Coffey said about handing out her unused medicines to relatives etc was disgraceful and stupid. Someone who has been prescribed a course of medication should take it to the end, to avoid the situation where bacteria survive the initial dose and develop resistance to the medicine

But her point about using pharmacies to prescribe antibiotics actually has some merit. In Scotland there is already the NHS Pharmacy First Scotland service, which allows specified community pharmacies to offer treatment (including some antibiotics) to patients presenting with certain minor conditions. This is NOT a free-for-all, there are strict controls on the training of the pharmacists and the conditions they can prescribe for.


Your post provides a bit of perspective, Stanza, but it still arguably makes it easier for people to obtain antibiotics they may not need to take. It`s not inconceivable that at least some pharmacists may dish out medicines more readily than GPs.

I`ve been in Italy and a young guy on a building site managed to get a bit of mortar in his eye. He went to the local pharmacy and was told by the pharmacist to wash his eye out with cold water and given some eye drops. I told him to get along to A&E. They cleaned out his eye, put him on antibiotics and gave him an eye patch to wear for 3 days....


Perhaps the a&e were a bit slap happy with the antibiotics and the pharmacist was right GG? ....

Only pulling your leg.
As noted by Stanza there is already antibiotic prescribing through community pharmacist`s in Scotland as part of pharmacy first for more common conditions like impetigo or urine infections. There are strict protocols and certain patient groups are exempt and would be referred to the GP. Overall it has saved thousands of GP appts in Scotland over the last 3-4 years, joined up thinking between health professions and Scottish government. Works by being specific conditions with specific clear antibiotic protocols. Scope to extend wider to more conditions. This could be the model that Coffey was looking to roll out to England but her briefing was completely cack handed and she blew it by admitting passing on antibiotics to friends and family, not only highly stupid and increases resistance but also breaks the law as illegal to pass on prescription only Medicines to others- not a good look for a health minister

Post Edited (Thu 20 Oct 20:55)
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 Re: Antibiotics
Topic Originator: Parfect68  
Date:   Thu 20 Oct 20:53

P.s. and I would definitely argue against your suggestion that pharmacists would give out antibiotics more freely than GPs GG. My experience from my community pharmacy colleagues is they would be more cautious if anything! They`ve studied 5 years to be the medicine experts, our GP colleagues are the diagnostic experts
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 Re: Antibiotics
Topic Originator: JTH123  
Date:   Thu 20 Oct 21:50

I went up to the asda pharmacy with an infected bump on my shin a couple of months ago. Expected to get some kind of cream for it but no it was a course of antibiotics issued there and then. It was a bit of a surprise but they did the trick.
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 Re: Antibiotics
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 21 Oct 12:06

"P.s. and I would definitely argue against your suggestion that pharmacists would give out antibiotics more freely than GPs GG. My experience from my community pharmacy colleagues is they would be more cautious if anything! They`ve studied 5 years to be the medicine experts, our GP colleagues are the diagnostic experts."

I certainly wasn`t trying to imply that there would be some kind of free for all with pharmacists eagerly boosting their sales at every opportunity. Here`s the line you`re referring to:-

" It`s not inconceivable that at least some pharmacists may dish out medicines more readily than GPs."

I was alluding to patients who don`t really need them. I know GPs occasionally prescribe placebos - I don`t know if pharmacists can do the same.



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 Re: Antibiotics
Topic Originator: Parfect68  
Date:   Fri 21 Oct 17:11

No worries GG, days of formally placebo prescribing in any setting long gone. Even drugs deemed of low clinical value less and less used . All about the evidence base......
Patients have high expectations of medicines which often can`t be met.We need far more honest conversations, discussions of risk and shared decision making.
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