|
|
Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Sat 30 Dec 13:57
Should poetry and art be inoffensive?
If anyone wants to post something about poetry and art that could be construed as political (!) - as if - please be aware that I`ve started another thread on the Politics forum.
Post Edited (Sat 30 Dec 14:12)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par
Date: Sat 30 Dec 15:07
Art should be pointless from the artist, then if a critic finds it offensive it is all in the critics mind.
Unfortunately many modern or post modern artists and creators do not have the ability to separate their own politics from their art.
Woke = "The insertion of politics, especially identity politics into systems that do not benefit from it."
Hence why Hollywood is failing, Disney is failing, the comic book industry is failing and the BBC will fail.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Sat 30 Dec 15:44
Bletchley,
You`re advocating a branch of art, called "pointless art?" Plenty of that about! Especially in big collections.
Where d`you get the "woke" quote from?
It`s not a word I use, but according to the Merriam-Webster dictionary, it`s a byword for social awareness.
Artists of all kinds are free to use whatever medium they prefer. There are lots of socially aware artists and socially aware art. I don`t think it`s a big player on the world stage, but I think some is effective in what the artist sets out to do.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Sat 30 Dec 16:01
Please, if you haven`t already - read my posts on the Politics Forum, on the thread that is also called `Being Inoffensive` - it`s a different thread with different posts to those on here.
It contains my inoffensive explanation about a poem, complaints about which are said to have been the reason for completely deleting two of my threads from Off Topics.
Also have a read on Admin Issues, `Thread Disappeared,` if you want their explanation for why my threads were deleted.
Post Edited (Sat 30 Dec 16:06)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Sat 30 Dec 16:03
Its very ironic the number of people who take offence at “wokeness” - is most of it a case of being offended for the sake of it?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sat 30 Dec 17:16
People using "woke" as an insult don`t appear to realise how thick it makes them. They`re insulting themselves and don`t realise it 😂
What they mean is they`re more traditional, and that`s totally fine.
Bletchley`s mention of Disney is an interesting one. My understanding is they`ve gone a bit crazy with the inclusiveness. I personally don`t really care what the likes of Disney do. If I was big into Marvel or Star Wars I might be annoyed. Personally, I am all for being more inclusive, but not where it`s unrealistic.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Sat 30 Dec 18:51
To be fair, Disney are verging on going too far…wanting to cast Michael B Johnson as Hercules is a step too far IMO - Hercules was a greek god - I don’t mean to sound bad or anything here, but he really doesn’t fit the profile of a Greek God in my view. Or, Im sure, in historys view either…
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Sat 30 Dec 21:36
OnAndUp
It was me who asked for the poem to be removed. It was vile and the language used in it was not something which I felt should be on a football forum, off topic or not. We have readers of all ages and I think you (and others) should consider that in your future posts.
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Sat 30 Dec 22:17
Thank you Buffy for letting me know. I agree the poem is adult content, but if you are going along with sammer`s view you`re completely wrong about it. As I`ve explained on the politics forum, it is a poem expressly directed at a Russian Militiaman, from someone who is furious at what`s happening in Ukraine. The poet is speaking directly to people waging war in Ukraine. It`s how he feels about that and what he`d say to them. He did say it to them, via youtube. I assume you are utterly repulsed by the military actions in Ukraine? So am I and so is that poet, and he`s a lot closer to it than we are. He also stood in the open, exercising a complete lack of caution in respect of his own safety to publicise his anti-war stance and he`s got seven years for it.
Maybe we need an adult or x-rated section.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Sat 30 Dec 22:49
What a bizarre take on my explanation.
I have no comments to make on the war in Ukraine.
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Sat 30 Dec 23:55
By "adult content" I mean violence, not the other stuff, if that makes any difference.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: DBA
Date: Sat 30 Dec 23:57
Quote:
buffy, Sat 30 Dec 22:49
What a bizarre take on my explanation.
I have no comments to make on the war in Ukraine.
That may be true, but to report it was wrong IMO.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Sun 31 Dec 00:34
Inoffensive art and poetry has a got a place of course. I`m a fan.
`Leisure`, by W.H.Davies is a favourite. "What is this life, if full of care, we have no time to stand and stare..."
`Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening`, by Robert Frost:
"...My little horse must think it queer
to stop without a farmhouse near
between the woods and frozen lake
the darkest evening of the year
He gives his harness bells a shake
To ask if there is some mistake
The only other sound`s the sweep
of easy wind and downy flake..."
I don`t go along with the interpretation some put on that poem. I like to think of it literally as them paused by the woods, in silence, and the horse shaking his harness.
A beautiful poem that has a great sense of stillness is `Frost at Midnight`, by S.T. Coleridge:
"The frost performs its secret ministry,
...The inmates of my cottage, all at rest,
have left me to that solitude, which suits
Abstruser musings: save that at my side
My cradled infant slumbers peacefully.
`Tis calm indeed! so calm, that it disturbs
And vexes meditation with its strange
And extreme silentness. Sea, hill, and wood,
with all the numberless goings-on of life,
inaudible as dreams! the thin blue flame
Lies on my low burnt fire, and quivers not;
only that film, which fluttered on the grate,
still flutters there, the sole unquiet thing.
Methinks its motion in the hush of nature
Gives it dim sympathies with me who live..."
I can well remember the pleasure of watching a fluttering flame on a coal fire. And I`ve been to Wordsworth`s house at Grasmere, where Coleridge used to visit. I picture him in such a place in the middle of the night, with his baby in the cradle, and the coal fire for company. (By the way, the museum there, at Dove Cottage, is fab - got loads of fascinating stuff, including lots to do with WW and his sister Dorothy, who lived with him and kept a diary that brings it to life.)
Post Edited (Sun 31 Dec 00:51)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Sun 31 Dec 00:54
Anyone else care to share some favourite inoffensive art or poetry?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: P
Date: Sun 31 Dec 11:21
Quote:
buffy, Sat 30 Dec 21:36
OnAndUp
It was me who asked for the poem to be removed. It was vile and the language used in it was not something which I felt should be on a football forum, off topic or not. We have readers of all ages and I think you (and others) should consider that in your future posts.
Genuine question and not intended as confrontational but why did you object to the poem but not Sammers post which is far more offensive and uses graphic language?
Post Edited (Sun 31 Dec 11:21)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sun 31 Dec 13:07
Buffy can speak for herself but it`s probably that it was whole content of the thread and not just one specific post which Buffy found offensive. The initial poem was then referenced and discussed in subsequent posts. It was probably easier just to delete the whole thread rather than delete only certain posts which would have made the thread indecipherable anyway.
The original thread was titled `Ukraine` and I thought it was going to be about Russia bombing a maternity hospital a few days ago but it was about a controversial poem
The point being that someone in Russia was sentenced to a number of years in prison for writing a poem. Maybe he recited it as well I don`t know. This is on the back of some woman being sent down for replacing price stickers in shops with anti war stickers. Oh the humanity! As someone far more intelligent than me once said `the more corrupt the state , the more numerous the laws`.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Sun 31 Dec 14:34
Ref: EastEndTales like
Date: Sun 31 Dec 10:36
"There was a man from Nantucket
Sadly I forgot the rest."
-------------------
Lovely EET, I like humorous verse. A few options there.
such as,
There was a man from Nantucket
Sadly he kicked the bucket.
I think yours is better though.
Post Edited (Sun 31 Dec 14:34)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: P
Date: Sun 31 Dec 15:16
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Sun 31 Dec 13:07
Buffy can speak for herself but it`s probably that it was whole content of the thread and not just one specific post which Buffy found offensive. The initial poem was then referenced and discussed in subsequent posts. It was probably easier just to delete the whole thread rather than delete only certain posts which would have made the thread indecipherable anyway.
The original thread was titled `Ukraine`.
Fair enough, I’m just surprised that the quote in the god thread is fine to be left considering it’s content is pretty graphic
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: EastEndTales
Date: Sun 31 Dec 15:16
I chatted once with a man named de Gier
All the way via zoom from here
He`s known to be Dutch, and thus as such
He knows how to drink lots of beer.
Ep.16 of East End Tales is out now with Steven Mill
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1972630/14949749
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Sun 31 Dec 18:46
😊Very good EET. Do you write poetry yourself?
If you like budgies, you might like this poem called `Our Budgie`, by Harri Webb (no, not `Cliff the pilchard`) - I remember my gran`s budgie gawn it`s dinger, and the poem describes all the funny and crazy things they do. It`s important - for the punch line at the end - to know Harri was Welsh.
Our Budgie
Our budgie lives in a cage of wire
Equipped to please his each desire,
He has a little ladder to climb
And he`s up and down it all the time.
And a little mirror in which he peeps
As he utters his self-admiring cheeps,
And two little pink plastic budgie mates
Whom he sometimes loves and sometimes hates.
And a little bell made all of tin
On which he makes a merry din.
Though sometimes, when things aren`t going well,
He hides his head inside the bell.
His feathers are a brilliant green
And take most of his time to preen,
His speech is limited and blurred
But he doesn`t do badly, for a bird.
And though he can but poorly talk
If you ignore him he`ll squawk and squawk
And fly into a fearful rage
And rattle the bars of his pretty cage,
But he won`t get out, he`ll never try it,
And a cloth on the cage will keep him quiet.
This futile bird, it seems to me,
Would make a prefect Welsh M.P.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Sun 31 Dec 19:02
Ref: P Sun 31 Dec 15:16
"I’m just surprised that the quote in the god thread is fine to be left considering it’s content is pretty graphic"
-------------------------------------------------
I was looking for a gif of Stan Laurel saying, "It most certainly is". I couldn`t find one, but I think this`ll do just as well:
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: pars4life1
Date: Sun 31 Dec 19:03
To answer the original question. Art can be inoffensive, but there’s nothing inherently wrong with it being offensive, indeed it is sometimes essential.
If it is to be offensive, as the creator I think you should be asking a few questions, Who is going to be offended? Why are they going to be offended? And Can I stand by my convictions?
As for separating yourself from the art, isn’t the entire point of art is to be an expression of yourself?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Sun 31 Dec 20:10
I go along with that pretty much, pars4life.
Your last sentence is really good. I think it covers about everything. I used to think the point of art was to communicate. I couldn`t understand it when people said it isn`t. Now, you`ve got me to think of it differently. An expression of yourself might be to communicate, but it might be other things as well. It`s a bigger field the way you put it. Not that self-expression alone is the aim. Or is it? Is it a case of just do your thing and hope somebody gets it?
You can tell I`m not an artist! Are you?
Post Edited (Sun 31 Dec 20:25)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Sun 31 Dec 20:23
EastEndTales,
This is my only effort at a limerick:
A very small gent from Kent
Fell in some quick-drying cement
In case took for a gnome
He ran all the way home
as hard as he ever had went.
Post Edited (Sun 31 Dec 20:24)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: pars4life1
Date: Sun 31 Dec 21:12
I’m no artist, just a consumer, preferably of music.
I was maybe a bit restrictive in my language to say it’s the entire point, it of course could be other things too. I have heard it said that by some that they made what they wanted and if others got it they’d be delighted but if no one did they’d be happy with what they’ve produced. Of course others would like to more to happen, whether that’s to communicate with others, change opinions, draw attention to a cause or slightly of cynically for some ultimately help pay the bills.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Sun 31 Dec 22:02
Yeh, I guess the main thing for an artist might be to have the drive to produce stuff, in whatever medium you can handle best. I think the drive to express something must be a start!
I sometimes start to make something but give up when the results are poor or it becomes far beyond my capabilities. I`ve got about a quarter-made marionette (string puppet) of a deer. It`s got all the moving parts - but I haven`t filled out the body, or started to string it. Now if I could just get the drive to go on with it. New Year Resolution!
What sort of music you into? Music is important, washing up is much harder without it. And I have a few favourites to get me going if I`m sluggish in the morning. One of them is `Heading for the Light` (Travelling Wilbury`s); it used to be Hawkwind`s album `Doremi`. Mellow now.
Post Edited (Sun 31 Dec 22:04)
|
|
|
|
|
|
