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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Fri 6 Dec 16:52
This is a discussion between me and Bletchley Par. Others can join in of course, but let`s see if we can make it a proper discussion. Let`s see if we can adhere to proper positive societal values of tolerance, and not get ratty!
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From the football forum thread, started by GG Riva: `Rainbow Armbands.`
To a post by Paralex,(Thu 5 Dec 23:25,) I responded:
"I can`t help thinking - what a chance your God missed when he wrote the ten commandments. He could have included: Thou shall not have wars!
I think the ten commandments weren`t bad for the time they were written, but I`d say a better place to look for appropriate guidance regarding inclusivity is the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights"
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Bletchley Par`s response to that:
(Fri 6 Dec 01:39)
"He did not miss any chance, it shows how little you know of the testament that you could even suggest such a thing."
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Onandup:
(Fri 6 Dec 10:26)
"If I know so little, could you show what it is you know that I don`t, regarding the ten commandments?"
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Ref: Bletchley_Par
(Fri 6 Dec 13:58)
"If there was a commandment [stating] "thou must not commit war" it would [be]at odds with all the other stuff in scripture about warring with the heretical Canaanites or going to war against idolatrous cities.
Usually when discussing this it moves onto "ahh but what about Thou shalt not kill" but there is really a mistranslation of that line from the original Hebrew "ratsah" which the closest translation would probably be "unjustified killing".
Happy to take this discussion to offtopic if you wish to debate further on it onandupthepars, while I am an existentialist I do enjoy discussing ancient texts."
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Righty-ho, we`re up to date.
Obviously, going to war against the Canaanites and heretical cities, shows there was a complete intolerance of other beliefs. Would it not be like justifying war against any other non-Christian or non-Jewish society today?
I understand the point you make about "Thou shall not kill", which is really why I put the suggestion that "Thou shall not have wars," would have been better, because it would be more definite, perhaps less easy for anyone to get around.
If there was a Biblical commandment that forbade wars - then for thousands of years, Jews and Christians would have been obliged to find ways to resolve differences without war. By now they, and perhaps others, might have developed much expertise in the field of conflict avoidance, and there could have been significantly better relations between countries than exist now.
Post Edited (Fri 06 Dec 17:20)
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Fri 6 Dec 17:12
This was the title of this thread. I don`t know why it disappeared. To continue...
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Topic Originator: Back_oh_the_net
Date: Fri 6 Dec 22:20
Bible thumping forum for this p!sh
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Topic Originator: Alter Ego
Date: Fri 6 Dec 22:31
Fek religion and all followers. I don’t get folk believe in a person in the sky who tells all his followers/deciples what to do…Folk are absolutely mental to believe in this nowadays🤷🤷
Mon the Pars!
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Sat 7 Dec 01:35
Ref: Back_oh_the_net
Fri 6 Dec 22:20
"Bible thumping forum for this p!sh"
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How long have you been doing after dinner speaking Back oh? Whatever they`re paying you it`s not enough.
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Sat 7 Dec 01:44
"Ho hum, just another scintillating discussion on dotnet Off Topics."
Post Edited (Sat 07 Dec 01:45)
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Topic Originator: Paralex
Date: Sat 7 Dec 02:28
Think I`ve explained quite clearly on previous threads that very few wars have anything to do with religious differences. It`s a very severe fallacy to claim that religion is a maincause of wars. Let`s go back to
1.the Napoleonic wars, nothing to do with religion, the cause, French conquest of Europe.
2.Boer war, ethnic struggle.
3. Crimean War. Land grab.
4. American Civil War. Preservation of the Union becoming emancipation of slavery.
5. First World War. Disputes between European powers. Not religion.
6. Second World War. Caused by Hitler`s desire to rectify perceived injustice of surrender terms of first World War.
None of these wars were caused by differences of religious beliefs.
Some wars are unavoidable. Some must be fought to challenge and overcome tyranny, such as the holocaust, and to protect your country from hostile invaders. The heart of the problem is the problem of the human heart.
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Sat 7 Dec 14:23
Paralex,
I`m not into discussing the causes of all wars here. As you know, the Bible contains info about wars authorized by the God, so it`s not just a problem of the human heart, it`s also a problem having Holy books which promote Gods who are into making war. As well as the Bible, other Holy books are also guilty of normalising war.
The main point I`m making is that a God who was deeply interested in the welfare of every individual could certainly have done more for the world than to issue the ten commandments and leave it at that.
But then, the Bible is not interested in every individual.
It was written by the self-proclaimed chosen ones, and so it is hardly surprising that it is primarily interested in the chosen ones. And a commandment against war would not have served their agenda, neither at the time the commandments were written, nor right now as it is being furthered in Gaza.
Post Edited (Sat 07 Dec 15:46)
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Topic Originator: Paralex
Date: Mon 9 Dec 01:36
Sadly there came a point in human history where the good God who gave us all life became so sorry that he created mankind that he ended the lives of many. If you look at the account of Sodom and Gomorrah in the book of Genesis you will get the gist of the depths of depravity that some people had descended to. God is not to be trifled with. Sin is serious and has repercussions. That`s why we all die. The God who gave us life wants us to acknowledge Him in our lives. The chief purpose of mankind is to glorify God and enjoy Him for ever. So says the shorter catechism. " Don`t be deceived, whatever a man sows, that shall he reap" the Bible. In the old testament God indeed required his people, Israel, to fight against and destroy nations which, it seems, had descended into the depths of depravity similar to Sodom and Gomorrah. God said enough was enough and acted to end their lives. There is a judgement day for all of us as well.
But you say that God issued the commandments and left it at that. I don`t know what Bible you`ve been reading, onandupthepars, but nothing could be further from the truth.
God came to earth in the form of His Son Jesus ( Immanuel. God with us), Christmas and all that. As John the Baptist said, behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world. Through His death on the cross, by confessing our sins and believing in Him, we are justified ( just as if I`d never sinned) ransomed, redeemed, restored and forgiven. God has provided the remedy for our problem, it`s up to us to accept the free gift. Wars are the result of mankind`s rejection of God and the Saviour He sent to rescue us.
Jesus told His disciples and that includes Christian believers in our generation to go into all the world and preach the gospel because God so loved the world that He sent His only Son that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. But salvation is not automatic, it is by God`s grace through FAITH. He has provided the way, we just have to take it.
As far as the actions of Israel in modern times is concerned it has to be understood that they are not Christians. They haven`t (as yet) recognised their Messiah. If they had, I would consider that they would have dealt differently with the situation.
Post Edited (Mon 09 Dec 01:46)
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