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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Tue 3 Feb 16:39
I had the pleasure of meeting Alfons Amade on a visit to Cairneyhill PS yesterday. Born and raised in Germany, the first thing that struck me about Alfons was his near perfect English. Fluent, sophisticated, and with no hesitation whatsoever. As a bilingual myself, it was obvious to me that he thinks in English when he speaks it and in German when he speaks that. I didn`t ask him, but his parents are from Mozambique, and I wouldn`t be at all surprised if he also speaks fluent Portuguese.
So what you might say? Well, he only studied English at school in Germany. Most Scottish children are nowhere near as fluent and confident in languages such as French and Spanish when they finish their schooling. They don`t generally appear to have the motivation and determination to learn a new language, according to my modern language colleagues when I was teaching. It`s unlikely to be vastly different now.
Tbf, English is so widely spoken around the globe that many kids don`t feel the need to learn a second language in the way that foreign kids want to learn English. It`s the language of IT and music, after all. What many people perhaps don`t realise is that learning a second language can inform your first and expand your vocabulary. e.g. how many of you know the meaning of the verb "masticate" without googling it? š¤
Not your average Sunday League player.
Post Edited (Tue 03 Feb 17:56)
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Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par
Date: Tue 3 Feb 17:00
Itās sadly an example of how widely English is spoken - I learned French, but whenever I speak it, the other party recognises my shoddy accent (yeah, and grammar) and answers me in Englishā¦
The problem is that English is the worldwide business language used in airlines and banking/financial services, which pretty much covers Lux - as well as typically being the ācommon languageā spoken by most politicians and governmental bodies.
Both my kids are fluent in French, pretty decent in German and Luxembourgish - which is not uncommon here - hell, the taxi drivers speak 5 or more languages.
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Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par
Date: Tue 3 Feb 17:01
Oh, Iād need to chew over an answer to your masticate questionā¦
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Tue 3 Feb 17:02
I remember seeing a TV programme about kids and languages. It was quite common for kids in London to have parents whose native language was not English but different from each other`s and the children were fluent in both as well as English which was the common language at school of course. They could switch between them without thinking. Apparently kids are most receptive at a very young age to learning different languages. A friend who worked for a while in Belgium where a few languages are spoken told me his kids were much more fluent in them than their parents and he often had to ask them about the meaning of words in the different languages.
`Masticate`, GGR? Wash your mouth out!
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Topic Originator: neilholland999
Date: Tue 3 Feb 17:28
A lot of the highest selling/most popular movies and songs etc are performed in English, so more people are also exposed to the language on a regular basis.
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Tue 3 Feb 19:18
"e.g. how many of you know the meaning of the verb "masticate" without googling it? š¤"
If its good enough for COWS its good enough for me :-o)))
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Tue 3 Feb 19:58
Germans are probably only second to the Dutch for their excellent grasp of English.
Like Lux, I find if I attempt French or German they just take pity and respond in English.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Tue 3 Feb 22:21
I never really understood why French was taught, Spanish is spoken in a lot more countries.
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Tue 3 Feb 22:28
As I lived in Germany, I learned it from scratch really not through school or books.
It took me a good two years to hold a half decent conversation in German but it benefited me in that I got to learn all the nuances that go with learning a new language such as various dialects in different areas of Germany.
Most Germans it has to be said thought I was Dutch as I presume they have that brusque way of talking like Scots.
Very few referred to me as an Englander as they are easy to spot.
I can also tell you the moment when I knew I cracked it.
I began to dream in German.
Never looked back and even yesterday I struck up a conversation in a shop with two German women and hadnāt forgot much at all 8 years after coming back home.
Zwei Pints Bier und ein PƤckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par
Date: Tue 3 Feb 23:29
Quote:
jake89, Tue 3 Feb 19:58
Germans are probably only second to the Dutch for their excellent grasp of English.
Like Lux, I find if I attempt French or German they just take pity and respond in English.
Iāve worked beside a load of Scandiās (Swedish bank with English as working language - Swedes, Finnās & Danes) and they are as near as dammit to fluent in English too.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Wed 4 Feb 06:17
Quote:
LochgellyAlbert, Tue 3 Feb 22:21
I never really understood why French was taught, Spanish is spoken in a lot more countries.
It`s fairly straightforward, LA. At one time, French was considered the second most important language after English. It was the language of the fledgling Common Market in the 50s. Language students studied French at universities. Those who became teachers taught French. I`m fairly certain that would have been the case when you were un petite garƧon. š
Later, university students were encouraged to study more than one foreign language. By this time, West Germany had overtaken France in importance in Europe, so many new teachers could also teach German and schools could offer both. In more recent years, Spain has become a favourite holiday destination for Brits and there is more appetite among school children to learn Spanish. Many schools now offer French and Spanish rather than German. Some Edinburgh schools offer Italian if they have staff who are qualified to teach it.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: auldpar
Date: Wed 4 Feb 07:16
`Petit` garƧon! š tut tut! My oldest granddaughter, 5 , living in Toronto goes to kindergarten and although it`s an English-speaking part of Canada, she`s taught in French and can already converse in both languages.
Post Edited (Wed 04 Feb 07:16)
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Wed 4 Feb 07:36
They say that for Scots, German is the easiest language to pick up, I think because of things like that āchās at the end of words like Loch and Nicht etc.
I done German in school, never continued it when left but do know the basics still and tried my best to use them during our trip for the Euros.
Does anyone else feel a sort of embarrassment when trying it though? Possibly why most just stick to English.
And donāt get me started on trying French or some French peoples attitudes towards folk that donāt speak itā¦..
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Wed 4 Feb 08:57
Quote:
Dave_1885, Wed 4 Feb 07:36
They say that for Scots, German is the easiest language to pick up, I think because of things like that āchās at the end of words like Loch and Nicht etc.
I done German in school, never continued it when left but do know the basics still and tried my best to use them during our trip for the Euros.
Does anyone else feel a sort of embarrassment when trying it though? Possibly why most just stick to English.
And donāt get me started on trying French or some French peoples attitudes towards folk that donāt speak itā¦..
Maybe for the pronunciation of certain words, Dave, but German`s sentence structure with the verbs coming right at the end, makes it quite difficult for foreign students to master.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: DJAS
Date: Wed 4 Feb 10:55
Made an attempt to learn German after I booked up for the Euros. Spent 6-7 months but failed in the end š
Predictor league winner 2012/2013
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Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey
Date: Wed 4 Feb 14:13
Have used Duolingo for German and its brilliant, can now watch interviews and understand key words etc enough to get context whats happening etc. Can discuss basics etc directions and ordering food
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Wed 4 Feb 18:06
I know someone who is from China and is over here teaching mandarin in a small private school. They take languages very seriously and every child reaches a good level of fluency.
Whatās interesting is that they teach all the kids, the only two languages they offer, mandarin and Spanish.
Their view is that if pupils finish school being able to speak English, Spanish and mandarin then they are basically sorted regardless of where in the world they are (as the people will very likely speak one of those as a first or second language)
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Wed 4 Feb 20:36
Quote:
neilholland999, Tue 3 Feb 17:28
A lot of the highest selling/most popular movies and songs etc are performed in English, so more people are also exposed to the language on a regular basis.
We met a couple of Belgian lads on holiday in Italy a few years ago, their English was as good as ours (no comment) - they explained that they got popular UK terrestrial television broadcasts due to living near the coast.
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Topic Originator: Big T Par
Date: Wed 4 Feb 23:45
Always look forward to Rammstein releasing new material, so that I can update mein Deutsch.
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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Thu 5 Feb 13:33
Interesting thread and always enjoy hearing about others` language journeys. I did French until S2 and then took an Italian class during S6 to fill a gap in my timetable, which was what really got me interested in languages again. Ended up doing a few elementary Russian courses with Lund Uni while working as well to couple with the Russian/Soviet History/Politics courses I was doing - case system there was just insane though!
I learned Swedish during my 9 years over there and would say I got pretty good at it and was always told my pronunciation was very good, but the difficult thing was always the rhythm of the language which is the giveaway for not being a native speaker. The other thing I found was that I developed a very specific vocabulary and taking about Chemistry or Physics was fine, but trying to sort out insurance or online banking could sometimes leave could leave you quite stumped!
Also found that I could communicate easily with the Norwegians in our respective language and the Danes too depending on where they were from, but the throatiness of Danish sometimes made it a nightmare to listen too. Easy enough to read either though. And I did find that it helped my random German knowledge that I picked up during my time over there improved a helluva lot because of Swedish, but that really translated as receptive skill rather than productive skill - was often mistaken for being Dutch I spoke German with the Swedish grammar, which has maybe about 1/3 of the rules of German.
My son is also half Japanese and so I`ve been investing time in that and its a completely different beast from anything else - 100% memory work and brain training to the point where you basically need to learn grammar on a contextual basis and remembering the specific conjugation for the sequence can really mess with your brain!
Being based in Hong Kong though, just have to say that Cantonese is mental - 9 possible tones per syllable...Mandarin/Putonghua is a lot better though with just 4 but prefer not to use that here as its widely disliked although you can get away with it as a foreigner.
During my days in the Scientific field, I always enjoyed reading papers and tried to avoid looking at the names while trying to guess what nationality the authors were. German speakers always had really long sentences with loads of caveats, the Italian ones were always quite colourful in terms of descriptions and the best-written were always the Greek papers, which I certainly wouldn`t have expected based on national second language ability.
I have to disagree slightly with Jake on the Germans though: I`d say the Swedes, Danes, Norwegians, Icelandics and Finns would be on par with the Dutch in terms of English. The younger generation of Estonians as well. If you know enough German then generally you do hear bits of word-for-word translation "I have played guitar since 7 years" is one I always remember and "I drive the bike" was another.
Also agree on the the points above about Anglophones perhaps not having the same motivation to learn a second language as others. I have always wondered if they start language lessons too late in Scottish schools - teachin
Post Edited (Thu 05 Feb 13:37)
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Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower
Date: Thu 5 Feb 14:07
I think learning a different language is like committing a murder ā you need means, motive and opportunity.
Means is a lot more straightforward now, with apps and web-based courses freely available.
Motivation is a big issue for anglophones. If you were Swedish, for example (and I`ve just seen HJ has posted with practical experience) then thereās a big incentive to learn English ā hardly anyone speaks Swedish outside Sweden, except maybe for some parts of Finland. Possibly you could get by in Denmark or somewhere, but other than that, no-one will understand you.
There I guess you will be taught English at primary school and you will hear songs in English and watch English language films and TV shows, and talk about them and quote them the next day at school.
Whereas in the UK ā which language do you learn? And when would you ever use it? I can think of two occasions when Iāve been abroad and the person Iāve been trying to speak to didnāt speak English ā one an Arabic speaker in a hotel in Tunisia, one an Italian taxi-driver in Turin. Both spoke French as their second language.
Then thereās opportunity. You need to practice the skill ā use it or lose it. A conversation class once a week might help, but I think, as has been said, something like immersion is the best way. That time I was in Tunisia there were a couple of people from Cambodia on my tour, and they didnāt speak a word of English (so that makes a third occasion), but I found that after only a couple of days I was able to make basic conversation in French relatively naturally (rather than think of something, try and translate it, realise I couldnāt think of the word, so try to say something else).
Other languages certainly teach you about English grammar ā which was never formally taught in my day ā things like tenses, moods, voices, inflection of nouns and so on, although this is often en passant ā there seems to be a reluctance to suggest learners sit down and learn some basic rules.
I read somewhere that to have a basic understanding of a language you need to know 800 ālemmasā or root words. To understand TV programmes you would need to know 3.000, and to read well 8,000 to 9,000. I would have thought reading a different language was easier than listening to one, but maybe I misunderstood. A native speaker might have 20,000 such root words at their disposal.
Iāve tried German on Duolingo ā Iām finding it really hard, compared to other languages. I think itās the word order. Also, the aging process ā learning things take about 4 times as long as it used to.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 5 Feb 16:52
Good shout, HJ. Immediately after I posted my mind went to the Scandinavian countries. I went to uni with quite a few from Norway, Sweden and Finland and their English was superb. It really does put us to shame but then I think there IS an advantage that it`s easy to be immersed in English compared to many other languages. I`d love to learn Cantonese but it has the additional complication of a different alphabet and structure - or that`s my excuse!
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Fri 6 Feb 10:33
What an enjoyable read this thread is. It`s really interesting to read the stories and experiences of other posters in relation to other languages. Who would have thought that dotnet was a hive of erudite linguistic scholars? š¤
Much as I admire anyone who strives to learn another language, I have some sympathy for Scottish secondary schoolchildren. It can`t be easy for them. It`s too late for a start. Starting in P1 would be far better, but very few primary teachers have a degree in a second language. Some lip service is paid to the practice, but few kids leave primary with more than a smattering of words in French or Spanish. Learning in a classroom setting doesn`t really cut the mustard either. There`s no doubt that immersion is far and away the best way to learn a new language. Nobody ever learned to swim without getting wet.....
After visiting Barcelona 20 years ago, I resolved to learn a bit of Spanish. I thought it would be relatively straightforward, given I`m fluent in Italian and the languages are so similar in structure, with many similar words. I bought 16 CDs called Learn Spanish, put them on my Walkman, and listened to them right through time and again, when I went out running. (I could manage 10 miles in around 85 mins back then.) After a couple of months of repetition, I managed to get the hang of it, but initially I thought I never would.
"`Masticate`, GGR? Wash your mouth out!"
Aye, I was a bit of a naughty teacher, wee eck. If I spotted some young lad chewing in class, I`d ask him if he was masticating. They were always horrified for some reason. Heads would turn, girls would giggle and the boy in question would turn red and deny it vehemently. "OK, mastication is just another word for chewing", I`d explain. "Just put the gum in the bin, please, before it ends up under your bench." It never failed to get the desired result. Now, when I think back, it was a bit cruel.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: Tad Allagash
Date: Fri 6 Feb 19:56
Interesting thread even for a monoglot like me.
Should we bring back Latin to our schools?
I think itās interesting that it is still widely taught in posh private schools, but comprehensives including the Catholic school I attended abandoned it decades ago.
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Fri 6 Feb 20:39
Quote:
Tad Allagash, Fri 6 Feb 19:56
Interesting thread even for a monoglot like me.
Should we bring back Latin to our schools?
I think itās interesting that it is still widely taught in posh private schools, but comprehensives including the Catholic school I attended abandoned it decades ago.
Indeed. Most European languages derive from Latin so it would make it easier for people to learn other languages.
Zwei Pints Bier und ein PƤckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Fri 6 Feb 21:20
Interesting thread, over the years I`ve worked with loads of Swedes, Polish, Italians and Spanish people and their command of English and vocabulary in general has been very good, both written and spoken. Many of them speak better English than most people I know.
My language skills are terrible, only really had a couple of years of French at secondary school and some Spanish at Uni. I lived and worked in Spain for a while and was keen to speak it whenever I could but as soon as people sussed you spoke English, then they wanted to speak English to practice their second language.
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Topic Originator: Jeffery
Date: Fri 6 Feb 22:28
I took German at school, and although I couldn`t have recalled much of it on demand, when I went over there and was immersed in it, it all came back.
The organisation of memories and how they can be recalled by a word, sight, smell, sound really is an incredible thing.
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Sat 7 Feb 01:45
Quote:
Jeffery, Fri 6 Feb 22:28
I took German at school, and although I couldn`t have recalled much of it on demand, when I went over there and was immersed in it, it all came back.
The organisation of memories and how they can be recalled by a word, sight, smell, sound really is an incredible thing.
Thatās absolutely true.
I said earlier Iāve been back here about 8 years from Germany but I surprised myself in a shop by how much I remembered.
Language is a jigsaw puzzle which, when comes together is a joy to behold and you see it in another light.
German for example is often seen as the least romantic language in existence but itās not true when you know it and the culture that goes with it.
Zwei Pints Bier und ein PƤckchen Chips bitte
Post Edited (Sat 07 Feb 01:46)
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Topic Originator: neilholland999
Date: Sat 7 Feb 10:53
Quote:
Tad Allagash, Fri 6 Feb 19:56
Interesting thread even for a monoglot like me.
Should we bring back Latin to our schools?
I think itās interesting that it is still widely taught in posh private schools, but comprehensives including the Catholic school I attended abandoned it decades ago.
Not a bad shout. My mother in law used to teach Latin at a private school until the school closed and she lost her job a few years ago. She now offers online lessons to lots of kids across the UK and further afield. It is still considered a good foundation for understanding the background and mechanics of many other languages.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 7 Feb 11:13
I did Latin to O Grade and found it provided a good grounding in English grammar and vocabulary. I think it may have been mandatory to Higher Grade if you wanted to study medicine or am I misrembering?
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Sat 7 Feb 12:08
I did it at DHS and itās come in handy in legal work.
āBuffyās Buns are the finest in Fifeā, J. Spence 2019ā
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 7 Feb 12:39
`Labor omnia vincit!` `Quidquid agis age pro viribus!`
Does DHS still have a school motto?
Post Edited (Sat 07 Feb 19:11)
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Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Sat 7 Feb 12:57
Went to Munich to meet customers who I was told would need a German translator. Turns out they had better English than me!
Was great to meet my pal Abdel from France (originally Algeria) who was luckily there at the same time, who can speak Arabic, French and English fluently. He was telling me that they donāt get on with Morocco with their border now closed, when we got into discussing World Cup things.
When flying Qatar airways, I love listening to the Qatari safety announcement. It is like music to the ears. No idea what is being said but sounds great.
Post Edited (Sat 07 Feb 13:00)
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Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower
Date: Sun 8 Feb 20:58
I did Gaelic at school, for a year. It was compulsory, and not very well taught. I think one issue was we had an old teacher (although all teachers were old) and a classful of kids who werenāt particularly interested. Almost all of us gave it up as soon as we could. Looking back I think the only people who kept it going were second generation Gaels.
I took up Latin instead. It seemed more modern and useful. And it certainly helped with introducing concepts of grammar that were no longer taught elsewhere.
I think for the Romance languages once youāve mastered a little bit of grammar itās largely vocabulary, a lot of which you can guess. So you can understand a fair bit of the written word. Speaking them is harder because you need to know more rules, like which preposition to use and how to form the future tense. Pronunciation generally isnāt a particular problem.
German has the word order issue. Gaelic has word order and spelling. And sound different sounds. And more grammar. Greek and Russian have the different alphabet, but I donāt think that in itself is a major hurdle. Arabic and the oriental languages have completely different character sets. How easy it is to get beyond that Iām not sure.
Being a tourist is different from any serious attempt to learn ā you can get by with knowing a handful of words and guessing the rest in Western Europe and the Nordic countries - so you see the word āFarmaciaā for example and can guess itās a pharmacy. Eastern Europe is harder, I think. I imagine further afield may be a bit harder still.
I was trying to remember Oban High Schoolās motto ā so I googled it. This is the answer I got: āThe motto of Oban High School is āĆrd-sgoil an Ćbainā ā this translates to āSchool of the Gaelicā in English.ā This is wrong and wrong.
(Itās āDia ar n-uilā by the way.)
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Topic Originator: Big T Par
Date: Sun 8 Feb 21:07
Remember one time when I was in Germany and we were in a restaurant and I thought I`d impress the family by asking for the bill in German. I sneakily had my phone down by my knee and typed in, what I thought was, Can I have the bill please. Back came the translation, but unbeknownst to me I had put bell, instead of bill. So I proudly said, in my best German, Kann ich bitte die Glocke haben?
The Fam were most impressed, until the waitress looked at me, rather confused, and started going, ding ding and hitting an imaginary bell with a hammer.
What a riddy š«£š«£š«£
Post Edited (Sun 08 Feb 21:08)
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Mon 9 Feb 08:36
Quote:
Big T Par, Sun 8 Feb 21:07
Remember one time when I was in Germany and we were in a restaurant and I thought I`d impress the family by asking for the bill in German. I sneakily had my phone down by my knee and typed in, what I thought was, Can I have the bill please. Back came the translation, but unbeknownst to me I had put bell, instead of bill. So I proudly said, in my best German, Kann ich bitte die Glocke haben?
The Fam were most impressed, until the waitress looked at me, rather confused, and started going, ding ding and hitting an imaginary bell with a hammer.
What a riddy š«£š«£š«£
ššš
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Mon 9 Feb 09:20
Quote:
Big T Par, Sun 8 Feb 21:07
Remember one time when I was in Germany and we were in a restaurant and I thought I`d impress the family by asking for the bill in German. I sneakily had my phone down by my knee and typed in, what I thought was, Can I have the bill please. Back came the translation, but unbeknownst to me I had put bell, instead of bill. So I proudly said, in my best German, Kann ich bitte die Glocke haben?
The Fam were most impressed, until the waitress looked at me, rather confused, and started going, ding ding and hitting an imaginary bell with a hammer.
What a riddy š«£š«£š«£
ššš
Zwei Pints Bier und ein PƤckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Mon 9 Feb 23:10
Iāve got family in Eastern Europe. Have made a tube of myself numerous times. Told my mother in law I was away to shower my undercarriage and I still donāt know what I said wrong š¤·š»āāļø
But yeah I do recognise speaking in a bad accent and then ending up speaking English š¤·š»āāļøš
Genuinely though, I get a large amount of positive feedback just for trying
COYP
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Topic Originator: Big T Par
Date: Tue 10 Feb 07:37
Was down at the BVB Spurs game recently and my mate, who`s a fluent German speaker, was talking to an older lady, and she told him that his fly was down, and he started laughing. Asked him what was funny and he said that the literal translation of, your fly`s down is, The key to your pants is open š
Post Edited (Tue 10 Feb 07:38)
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Topic Originator: Paralex
Date: Thu 12 Feb 19:20
The problem that English speakers have in speaking another language, as has already been said, is the global popularity of English. I learned a bit of French at school and to be fair, was awful at it, although I do know many nouns, basic phrases and some of the grammatical nuances. Having holidayed in France many times, maybe as much as 20, I can understand enough to get by with little difficulty but my speech is of the pigeon variety. And in that style one of my party tricks is describing, in French, our experience of sitting on the grass, dans une parc en Amiens and watching une grande television screen, to see le coup de monde finale, a la France et l`italia. I also describe how le capitain a la France, Zinidane Zidane, was awarded le carte rouge, for putting la tete on an italian defender. One other problem is that, whether in Paris, or caravan sites in Normandy, Brittany, la Cote d `Azure or elsewhere, you tend to meet other holiday makers, who don`t speak French.
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Thu 12 Feb 20:49
Quote:
Paralex, Thu 12 Feb 19:20
The problem that English speakers have in speaking another language, as has already been said, is the global popularity of English. I learned a bit of French at school and to be fair, was awful at it, although I do know many nouns, basic phrases and some of the grammatical nuances. Having holidayed in France many times, maybe as much as 20, I can understand enough to get by with little difficulty but my speech is of the pigeon variety. And in that style one of my party tricks is describing, in French, our experience of sitting on the grass, dans une parc en Amiens and watching une grande television screen, to see le coup de monde finale, a la France et l`italia. I also describe how le capitain a la France, Zinidane Zidane, was awarded le carte rouge, for putting la tete on an italian defender. One other problem is that, whether in Paris, or caravan sites in Normandy, Brittany, la Cote d `Azure or elsewhere, you tend to meet other holiday makers, who don`t speak French.
Yeah it takes a lot of discipline to properly learn a different language and most importantly confidence to pull it off as the first thing you have is shyness as you donāt want to make a fool of yourself even when you have enough understanding of said language.
I do find that natives will help you out when they see you making a genuine effort.
Zwei Pints Bier und ein PƤckchen Chips bitte
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