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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Fri 8 Dec 19:32
Rovers go top 2pts ahead of Dundee United
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
Post Edited (Fri 08 Dec 21:40)
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Fri 8 Dec 19:38
buffy that so scary I just logged in to write these very same words
Mon the wee team
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 8 Dec 20:00
What a soft goal.
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Fri 8 Dec 20:37
At HT Rovers go top with a 2 points advantage over Dundee United
After the equaliser penalty by B Graham they’re back in 2nd
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
Post Edited (Fri 08 Dec 21:06)
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Topic Originator: Angus_W
Date: Fri 8 Dec 20:46
First time I’ve watched the Rovers this season without a vested interest. Got to hand it to them they are a good team. Moving the ball about at pace with some very clever passing & movement of the ball. It’s going to be tough getting anything of them this season.
“.........it ain’t over till the Pars score!”
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Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Fri 8 Dec 20:52
Look like the Rovers are dismantling Thistle the way they did with us!
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Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Fri 8 Dec 20:55
Maybe not! Spoke too soon 🤣
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Fri 8 Dec 20:55
OG by O’Reilly
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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Topic Originator: Rusty Shackleford
Date: Fri 8 Dec 20:56
Repeating what I said on a different thread but it`s going to be phenomenal when we finish twenty five points behind them then dump them out the play offs.
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Fri 8 Dec 20:56
Game on
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Fri 8 Dec 21:01
Raith look like quite a good squad this year. It could be a season in the sun for them. I had actually briefly felt a bit envious of them but when I think about it, I`d prefer to be in the situation we are.
They appear to be flinging a bit wedge at it this season, but the majority of their first team are solid Championship players nearing 30, so while they have the experience, they are also at their peak and have reached their limit, so there is going to be no real sell on value for those players.
They are flying high and are still no where near attracting the sizes of crowds we are.
I`m fairly content that we have invested in players for the future. Soon, the natural order of things will be restored
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Fri 8 Dec 21:03
Penalty to Thistle
Goal
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Fri 8 Dec 21:05
Brian Graham is a great player. He`d have a barrow load if he played for us.
Had a wee flutter on him scoring at anytime tonight, as well as both teams to score, safe money
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Fri 8 Dec 21:12
Thistle come from behind to now lead
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Fri 8 Dec 21:12
Meltdoon
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 8 Dec 21:14
Rovers getting a taste of their own medicine.
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Fri 8 Dec 21:22
Quote:
wee eck, Fri 8 Dec 21:14
Rovers getting a taste of their own medicine.
Hope there`s still plenty left in the bottle....
Spoke too soon
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
Post Edited (Fri 08 Dec 21:23)
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Fri 8 Dec 21:23
Smith equalises for Rovers
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Fri 8 Dec 21:25
Rovers ahead again!
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Fri 8 Dec 21:26
Cracking game!
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Topic Originator: TAFKA_Super_Petrie
Date: Fri 8 Dec 21:32
Great game even with an awful refereeing performance
---------------------------------------------------------------
"People always talk about Ronaldinho and magic, but I didn't see him today. I saw Henrik Larsson; that's where the magic was."
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Fri 8 Dec 21:41
Quote:
TAFKA_Super_Petrie, Fri 8 Dec 21:32
Great game even with an awful refereeing performance
Referee was awful. So many unlikeable wee rats in that Raith team.
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: bigdonnie
Date: Fri 8 Dec 21:43
even though cant stand them the wee team are unbelievable never beaten i can see them winning the league utd are nothing great
donald mcneil
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 8 Dec 21:52
Rovers are pretty lethal when they get into the final third of the field.
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Topic Originator: gordi-b
Date: Fri 8 Dec 21:56
Quicker and slicker than us I’m afraid
G.B
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Fri 8 Dec 21:58
Murray having a wee dig there, when Jonathan Sutherland mentioned them celebrating on the bench, he replied "better not tell Dunfermline"
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Fri 8 Dec 22:00
We really do live in their heads
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Fri 8 Dec 22:00
Quote:
gordi-b, Fri 8 Dec 21:56
Quicker and slicker than us I’m afraid
Not just us
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 8 Dec 22:02
Quote:
da_no_1, Fri 8 Dec 21:41
Quote:
TAFKA_Super_Petrie, Fri 8 Dec 21:32
Great game even with an awful refereeing performance
Referee was awful. So many unlikeable wee rats in that Raith team.
Dundee Utd not much better tbh. Horrible club.
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Topic Originator: Gem 1977
Date: Fri 8 Dec 22:44
Couldn`t give a ***** about them tbh. COYP 🏁🏁🏁🏁
Here's to the first of the day, fellas! To old D.H. Lawrence.
Neh! Neh! Neh! Fuh! Fuh! Fuh! Indians
Post Edited (Fri 08 Dec 22:44)
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Fri 8 Dec 22:56
It`s a good result for us because, with our two games in hand, we could potentially narrow the gap on Thistle in 3rd to just one point.
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Topic Originator: Paralex
Date: Fri 8 Dec 23:28
Good goal from Calum Smith. He has certainly beefed up a bit since he played for us.
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Topic Originator: Pars11
Date: Sat 9 Dec 00:49
The Wee Team are grinding out results but are spending huge on players and backroom staff. Not so long ago they were contemplating part-time status again. They cannot attract a crowd in their home end above 2500 at most games. They must be struggling to balance the books. Pity we blew our Scottish Cup game with them. A Livingston win in the next round would be a sore one for them, 5000 at that match would be the best they can hope for so no big pay day other than an early exit fee and possibly a live TV match fee. If they win that match they will get serious money that will balance their books. All in all a huge gamble on making this season a success.
Bluebell Polka
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Topic Originator: chris1883
Date: Sat 9 Dec 09:28
Pars11 wrote:
> The Wee Team are grinding out results but are spending huge on
> players and backroom staff. Not so long ago they were
> contemplating part-time status again. They cannot attract a
> crowd in their home end above 2500 at most games. They must be
> struggling to balance the books. Pity we blew our Scottish Cup
> game with them. A Livingston win in the next round would be a
> sore one for them, 5000 at that match would be the best they
> can hope for so no big pay day other than an early exit fee and
> possibly a live TV match fee. If they win that match they will
> get serious money that will balance their books. All in all a
> huge gamble on making this season a success.
>
>
You keep bringing up the fact that we are "Spending huge on players"... with no qualification at all. Looking at our recent signings, nothing suggests they are on `big money` - most were signed from lower league clubs. Our squad is relatively small... to the extent we had to sign an out of work defender for two months... and he is of dubious quality.
If you go through our recent signings:
Dabrowski - out of favour at Hibs, had been loaned out to places like Civil Service Strollers, Cowdenbeath, Dumbarton, QOS
DIck- been with us since 2021
Mullen - signed from Scunthorpe
Watson - Signed from Ross County who didn`t renew his contract
Murray - signed from Hartlepool
Connelly- been with us since 2021
Mathew`s- been with us since 2013
Mullen- signed last season, but been on loan to us since 2019
Vaughan- been with us since 2018
Smith - signed from Airdrie
Mullen - signed from Ayr
Stanton - signed from the Irish league
Hamilton - signed from Livi, but had been on loan to lower league clubs since 2017
Brown - signed from Peterhead
Easton - signed from Airdrie
O`reily - signed for 2 months, was out of work
You also need to remember we lost a good number of players when McGlyn left, hence the number of signings.
I just don`t see where it suggest `cash has been splashed`, it just seems like our squad is working well together. It was mentioned last night that a huge emphasis has been put on fitness... and I think this is the difference we are seeing.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Sat 9 Dec 09:41
They`ll struggle to hold on to their management team till end of season, especially if Hibs do their usual.
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Sat 9 Dec 09:45
Let’s see what the next couple of months brings, Chris1883
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Sat 9 Dec 10:10
It`s a well.known fact that most clubs only outgoings are the playing squad. Everyone else works for free.
Rovers are an excellent team who play really good football but it`s naive in the extreme to suggest it`s being done on the cheap
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: fcda
Date: Sat 9 Dec 10:11
Quote:
chris1883, Sat 9 Dec 09:28
I just don`t see where it suggest `cash has been splashed`, it just seems like our squad is working well together. It was mentioned last night that a huge emphasis has been put on fitness... and I think this is the difference we are seeing.
Hug? 🤗
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Topic Originator: chris1883
Date: Sat 9 Dec 10:16
fcda wrote:
> Quote:
chris1883, Sat 9 Dec 09:28
>
> I just don`t see where it suggest `cash has been splashed`, it
> just seems like our squad is working well together. It was
> mentioned last night that a huge emphasis has been put on
> fitness... and I think this is the difference we are
> seeing.
>
> Hug? 🤗
It generally takes a few pints before I get `huggy`! Haha
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Topic Originator: EastEndTales
Date: Sat 9 Dec 10:17
I`ve not seen a single Pars fan being gracious in how Rovers have done this season. Its always about how much cash they`ve spent and/or a crowd w@nk about how they don`t have as many fans as we have.
All seems rather petty and sprinkled with huge amounts of jealousy in some places. They`re doing very well with what they`ve got.
Ep.17 of East End Tales is out now with Andrius Skerla
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1972630/15082607
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Sat 9 Dec 10:26
They lord administration and the "cheats" tag over us every hour of every day. They hate us more than they like their own club. Every song they sing is about us (apart from that Geordie Munro sh1te)
Yet you seem surprised we`re not being gracious?
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
Post Edited (Sat 09 Dec 10:26)
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Topic Originator: chris1883
Date: Sat 9 Dec 10:32
da_no_1 wrote:
> They lord administration and the "cheats" tag over us
> every hour of every day. They hate us more than they like their
> own club. Every song they sing is about us (apart from that
> Geordie Munro sh1te)
>
> Yet you seem surprised we`re not being gracious?
>
>
>
> Post Edited (Sat 09 Dec 10:26)
Erm... are you OK?
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Sat 9 Dec 10:39
Quote:
chris1883, Sat 9 Dec 10:32
da_no_1 wrote:
> They lord administration and the "cheats" tag over us
> every hour of every day. They hate us more than they like their
> own club. Every song they sing is about us (apart from that
> Geordie Munro sh1te)
>
> Yet you seem surprised we`re not being gracious?
>
>
> Post Edited (Sat 09 Dec 10:26)
Erm... are you OK?
I`m fine thanks. Just find it weird that some football fans can`t get their heads round this thing called football rivalry?!
Like I said elsewhere, Raith are a really good team who play football the right way. That`s undeniable
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: chris1883
Date: Sat 9 Dec 11:00
da_no_1 wrote:
> Quote:
chris1883, Sat 9 Dec 10:32
>
> da_no_1 wrote:
>
> > They lord administration and the "cheats" tag over us
> > every hour of every day. They hate us more than they like
> their
> > own club. Every song they sing is about us (apart from that
> > Geordie Munro sh1te)
> >
> > Yet you seem surprised we`re not being gracious?
> >
> >
> > Post Edited (Sat 09 Dec 10:26)
>
> Erm... are you OK?
>
> I`m fine thanks. Just find it weird that some football fans
> can`t get their heads round this thing called football
> rivalry?!
>
> Like I said elsewhere, Raith are a really good team who play
> football the right way. That`s undeniable
>
>
Personally, when it comes to rivalry when our teams go head to head, I want to beat you lot. I hate your team for the 90 mins they are on the pitch, and then get over it. I want rovers to be above Dunfermline in the league... but I genuinely want your club to be alright. I love being in the same league as you, and being `close` in terms of success and ability makes things better IMO.
Scotland`s footballing product is made better by rivalries. My view, however, is always that we should always keep this relative. None of us will ever have big money so we should look after what we have by being sensible about it all.
I have willingly financially supported all Fife`s clubs in the past when they needed it, and will do so in the future. For me, rivalry is at its best when we are all doing well.
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Sat 9 Dec 11:10
Good post, Chris 👆
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Sat 9 Dec 11:22
Quote:
Raymie the Legend, Sat 9 Dec 11:10
Good post, Chris 👆
Agreed. He seems a really sound guy......for a Raith fan 🤔
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: Milos Drizzle
Date: Sat 9 Dec 12:20
Always keep things in perspective. Should be able to have a pint with a Wee Teamer with gentle banter. Which reminds me, I must look out my hazmat suit should the opportunity arise.
This is my signature
Post Edited (Sat 09 Dec 12:20)
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Topic Originator: RossF
Date: Sat 9 Dec 12:24
Raith have been the best team I’ve seen us play this season and unfortunately for us, they seem to get stronger each time. I wouldn’t be surprised to see them win the league. They’ve signed extremely well in the summer and look strong in every position. Sam Stanton is far too good for this level. He always seems to pop up with important goals for them. I also think Lewis Vaughn could have been at a similar level to Nisbet/Shankland if it wasn’t for the brutal injuries he has suffered. Hopefully we can build a stronger a team for next season and be in the same position they are just now.
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Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Sat 9 Dec 13:11
Hi Chris1883, I was interested if the Rovers are actually the wee team with the starting 11 height. They must be one of the smallest teams in the League. Brave
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Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Sat 9 Dec 13:12
…..brave with it. We have played some big lads in this league this year.
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Topic Originator: Par
Date: Sat 9 Dec 13:28
To tell the truth I like all the smaller Fife teams to have their day, there is no hatred towards any of them, they are neighbours.
Our real rivals are Falkirk and that is where the hatred lies, the Pars Falkirk games have much more passion.
We don`t even hate you Rovers and good luck, you have a good team at the moment and deserve your place at the top the league. It is just unfortunately the people of Kirkcaldy don`t back their local team.
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Topic Originator: pacifist
Date: Sat 9 Dec 13:29
Didnt quite catch something Ian Murray said after the game yesterday, "don`t tell Dunfermline" or something to the interviewers. No idea why hes still thinking about us whilst just going top of the league?
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Topic Originator: fcda
Date: Sat 9 Dec 13:29
Quote:
EastEndTales, Sat 9 Dec 10:17
I`ve not seen a single Pars fan being gracious in how Rovers have done this season.
I`m gracious. Pat on the head for the wee team. "We don`t even hate you..."
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sat 9 Dec 13:37
Quote:
pacifist, Sat 9 Dec 13:29
Didnt quite catch something Ian Murray said after the game yesterday, "don`t tell Dunfermline" or something to the interviewers. No idea why hes still thinking about us whilst just going top of the league?
Because it`s part of a manufactured rivalry. Sadly, the locals in Kirkcaldy care even less about Raith than Dunfermline do 😂
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Sat 9 Dec 13:47
Quote:
EastEndTales, Sat 9 Dec 10:17
I`ve not seen a single Pars fan being gracious in how Rovers have done this season. Its always about how much cash they`ve spent and/or a crowd w@nk about how they don`t have as many fans as we have.
All seems rather petty and sprinkled with huge amounts of jealousy in some places. They`re doing very well with what they`ve got.
The Rovers have done exceptionally well so far this season, have built a quality Championship squad and have managed to secure points out of nothing at times (including their 6 v us this season).
That doesn’t mean that people cant question their spending/income and say it could be a year of glory or bust for them…Chris has ran off a list of their squad and where they got them from - although Vaughans been at them since 2011 not 2018…but lets not pretend that squads come cheap.
Byrne, Millen, Murray, Stanton, Mullen, Dabrowski will all be on higher wages than most if not all of our squad members (excluding maybe Mehmet/Bene). These guys have been around a fair bit and come with that baggage. Nothing wrong with splashing the cash either, when available. Theyve gone for a smaller squad but better squad - remind you of anyone in recent years?
I do believe they are trying a big push for promotion this year though - if they get into the Premiership, it will alleviate the costs of this years squad comfortably. If they don’t, then some will leave, some wont.
Ps - Easton is far too good for the Championship!
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Topic Originator: weemike
Date: Sat 9 Dec 13:55
* they were on higher wages doesn`t mean they are now.
Our wage bill will be quite high as well. I`m willing to guess it`ll be in the top half of the league easily
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Topic Originator: Berkey
Date: Sat 9 Dec 14:12
Yeah I kind of don’t buy the raith spending outwith their means and we can’t compete.
Raith have done very well in the transfer market. Did we actually go for Murray but raith offered more? Same with Byrne? The only one I would think is on good money would be mullin having come from down south.
Whilst we have no idea what we paid for KRH and Etoo and how much this might have hit the playing squad budget, surely we should be competing in the same market for these players? It’s more down to mcpake going with experienced players he knew where as raith cast the net wider and had more quality to pick from.
Raith have done well in the summer window, far better than us.
The post below replying to me is by one of .nets finest champions of mediocrity!
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Topic Originator: weemike
Date: Sat 9 Dec 14:19
Quote:
Berkey, Sat 9 Dec 14:12
Yeah I kind of don’t buy the raith spending outwith their means and we can’t compete.
Raith have done very well in the transfer market. Did we actually go for Murray but raith offered more? Same with Byrne? The only one I would think is on good money would be mullin having come from down south.
Whilst we have no idea what we paid for KRH and Etoo and how much this might have hit the playing squad budget, surely we should be competing in the same market for these players? It’s more down to mcpake going with experienced players he knew where as raith cast the net wider and had more quality to pick from.
Raith have done well in the summer window, far better than us.
Short term yes, but longer term Otoo, Todd and McCann might either A. Elevate the club to a higher level or B. Bring in a transfer windfall.
I think if we just keep plugging away, signing youngster`s and the odd journey man. We will be absolutely fine.
Moffat is too good to sign for us I feel and summers was locked down by celtic.
But if the management team keep their ear to the ground and get a couple more with potential we will be in a very good place.
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Topic Originator: shellypar
Date: Sat 9 Dec 14:19
Quote:
Berkey, Sat 9 Dec 14:12
Yeah I kind of don’t buy the raith spending outwith their means and we can’t compete.
Raith have done very well in the transfer market. Did we actually go for Murray but raith offered more? Same with Byrne? The only one I would think is on good money would be mullin having come from down south.
Whilst we have no idea what we paid for KRH and Etoo and how much this might have hit the playing squad budget, surely we should be competing in the same market for these players? It’s more down to mcpake going with experienced players he knew where as raith cast the net wider and had more quality to pick from.
Raith have done well in the summer window, far better than us.
I wont lie, i do know from primary sources how much wages some of their players are on, and it is much higher than our highest paid, also remember the work they have done to their stadium etc
COYP
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Topic Originator: Pars11
Date: Sat 9 Dec 14:27
Well I seem to have flushed out a Wee Team fan on here. He cannot even digest the main point inwhat I said. The Wee Team are overspending on the squad players and backroom staff. It costs money just to keep players and it costs money to bring in any players. It costs money to have a top heavy management team. Must be a hard facts in life for him to swallow. Going on the defensive is just failure to acknowledge the situation they are creating with finances with low crowd averages being the normal. I for one helped bail that lot out the last time they went tits up, no way would I do that now. Come Christmas will be interesting if The Wee Team have a small squad as the disciplince totting up takes its toll along with the any injuries. Granted the transfer window opens but again that cost even more money to run the club. Pumped off of Livingston will be a worry for them, they cannot afford that. Money is easily squandered in football, John McGlynn signing David Goodwillie cost them more than the money they got from a visit to Ibrox in the Scottish Cup. Will be amusing if this occurs.
Bluebell Polka
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Sat 9 Dec 15:28
As ever the usuals never fail to disappoint.
The guys kicking a ball around the pitch on a Saturday are just a fraction of their expenditure. It's crazy to suggest they haven't pumped a small fortune into the club.
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
Post Edited (Sat 09 Dec 15:35)
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Topic Originator: EastEndTales
Date: Sat 9 Dec 15:58
You do realise that spending doesn`t automatically mean success? Bigger teams I`m sure have spent more and failed miserably. Just got to look at ourselves for that.
Ep.17 of East End Tales is out now with Andrius Skerla
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1972630/15082607
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Sat 9 Dec 16:42
Quote:
EastEndTales, Sat 9 Dec 15:58
You do realise that spending doesn`t automatically mean success? Bigger teams I`m sure have spent more and failed miserably. Just got to look at ourselves for that.
I dunno if you`re arguing with me but I never said spending guaranteed success. I do think when you are a player looking for a deal and one club offers you a few hundred quid more a week it may explain why a player chooses one club over another.
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
Post Edited (Sat 09 Dec 16:42)
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Sat 9 Dec 17:29
Quote:
weemike, Sat 9 Dec 13:55
* they were on higher wages doesn`t mean they are now.
Our wage bill will be quite high as well. I`m willing to guess it`ll be in the top half of the league easily
We more than likely are, but excluding Dundee Utd, we have comfortably the largest fanbase in the division as well, meaning we can generate more income through those streams. Also, then money made on Nisbet has clearly been invested back into the club in various means.
The point I was really making is that they have signed more experienced, quality pros who will demand higher wages. To think these guys will be earning a pittance is naive at best. They have a smaller squad though, so overall we probably arent far off equality in spending, but we have a higher opportunity to sell on for higher fees - Todd, Edwards, McCann, Otoo etc
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Topic Originator: weemike
Date: Sat 9 Dec 17:38
Quote:
Dave_1885, Sat 9 Dec 17:29
Quote:
weemike, Sat 9 Dec 13:55
* they were on higher wages doesn`t mean they are now.
Our wage bill will be quite high as well. I`m willing to guess it`ll be in the top half of the league easily
We more than likely are, but excluding Dundee Utd, we have comfortably the largest fanbase in the division as well, meaning we can generate more income through those streams. Also, then money made on Nisbet has clearly been invested back into the club in various means.
The point I was really making is that they have signed more experienced, quality pros who will demand higher wages. To think these guys will be earning a pittance is naive at best. They have a smaller squad though, so overall we probably arent far off equality in spending, but we have a higher opportunity to sell on for higher fees - Todd, Edwards, McCann, Otoo etc
They didn`t spend a year in league one
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Topic Originator: EastEndTales
Date: Sat 9 Dec 19:23
Quote:
da_no_1, Sat 9 Dec 16:42
Quote:
EastEndTales, Sat 9 Dec 15:58
You do realise that spending doesn`t automatically mean success? Bigger teams I`m sure have spent more and failed miserably. Just got to look at ourselves for that.
I dunno if you`re arguing with me but I never said spending guaranteed success. I do think when you are a player looking for a deal and one club offers you a few hundred quid more a week it may explain why a player chooses one club over another.
No, you`re too tall to argue with.
Ep.17 of East End Tales is out now with Andrius Skerla
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1972630/15082607
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Sat 9 Dec 19:34
Especially in his stilettos eep :-))
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: chris1883
Date: Sun 10 Dec 09:32
I always love the comments like "I know from a primary source how much their players are on and it`s more than ours".
So, what you are saying is both our board have disclosed to you the individual wages of our players, AND your board has done the same so you can compare. Let`s be honest, this has not happened.
There was also talk about the investment in non-paying staff. There has been, but you need to take this relatively. A lot of the community based staff are funded through non-footballing staff (just like your club).. Several of our non-playing staff are part-time (just like your club) and numbers wise, our backroom staff is actually comparable in size and roles to yours.
Our first-team squad is 22 (including our GK Coach & 1 jr), yours is 25. Realistically our current playing pool is actually 20.
In terms of finances - nobody but the board know the true numbers, but I would suggest our revenues will be up. Home gates are up substantially on last season, shirt sales are also up (thanks to the away shirt popularity).
I do get that it is an easy thing to do to say that a rival team are only more successful because they are over spending and living outwith their means... but clutching to this without evidence (other than a person on a forum claiming they have seen the players payslips) is just folly.
In terms of terminating Goodwillies contract - an amount of £105k is listed in the accounts for `Player Terminations`. This wouldn`t just be for him, but I am sure that it would be a good amount of it. John Simm in the same period waved £99.5k of rent for the ground - ultimately canceling the majority of that out.
The accounts for last term (available publicly) are not the rosiest thing you have ever seen, but they aren`t atrocious either and are comparable to most clubs of a similar size... and certainly less complex than yours.
Although not close to anyone one the board, I know a couple of the gents and going by the way they operate their own businesses I would be very, very surprised they would operate a way that would be financially irresponsible.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 10 Dec 09:39
No-one but the board knows the finances...except they`re publicly available on companies house 😂
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Topic Originator: chris1883
Date: Sun 10 Dec 10:16
jake89 wrote:
> No-one but the board knows the finances...except they`re
> publicly available on companies house 😂
Yes - because only historical finances are available via Companies House. No company needs to, or can, provide a live overview of current finances.
I`m not sure if you genuinely don`t know how company finances and reporting works or you are trying to poke fun at me and ridiculing yourself... but her goes anyway:
- Companies have something called a `financial year`. Something they select the start date for
- At the end of the financial year they (or their accountants) need to collate a set of accounts. This date is known as `year end` The depth these accounts go into vary by company size.
- The accounts must be submitted within 9 months of year end.
- Accounts must be true and auditable.
- Because of this, you can only really see how the company has performed in the last financial year (or even the year previous to this, if you are within 9 months of year end and accounts have not been submitted)
- All limited accounts are publically available via companies house.
So yes - only the board of directors know how their business is currently performing financially, but anyone can find how their club has performed in the past.
I trust ths clarifies how Limited Compay accounting works :)
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Topic Originator: fcda
Date: Sun 10 Dec 11:13
Quote:
chris1883, Sun 10 Dec 10:16
I`m not sure if you genuinely don`t know how company finances and reporting works
Don`t worry brother, we`ll stand beside you with the collection buckets if it goes t*ts up 🤜🤛
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Topic Originator: Kdy Par
Date: Sun 10 Dec 11:23
Quote:
fcda, Sun 10 Dec 11:13
Quote:
chris1883, Sun 10 Dec 10:16
I`m not sure if you genuinely don`t know how company finances and reporting works
Don`t worry brother, we`ll stand beside you with the collection buckets if it goes t*ts up 🤜🤛
*when
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Sun 10 Dec 11:27
If anyone is thinking this is sustainable then they are either incredibly naive or a wee bit stupid. I`m sure the owners are successful businessmen but that doesn`t always mean they make sound financial decisions when it comes to football. We know that only too well.
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 10 Dec 11:34
Quite aware of how company accounts work, Chris.
You said the information wasn`t available then conceded that it`s publicly available.
You also commented on people claiming to be in the know then you yourself claimed to know people involved.
You`re not having a very good day.
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Sun 10 Dec 11:37
Quote:
da_no_1, Sun 10 Dec 11:27
If anyone is thinking this is sustainable then they are either incredibly naive or a wee bit stupid. I`m sure the owners are successful businessmen but that doesn`t always mean they make sound financial decisions when it comes to football. We know that only too well.
It can be sustainable in one sense - they earn promotion this season or maybe even next. Failure to do so would be bad for them, but they achieve it and they are in the big league with the big crowds, therefore it could work - stay up for 2/3 years and they will be financially sound.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sun 10 Dec 11:47
I`m beginning to think we are as obsessed with them as we claim they are with us...
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Topic Originator: chris1883
Date: Sun 10 Dec 12:13
Jake89 wrote:
> Quite aware of how company accounts work, Chris.
>
> You said the information wasn`t available then conceded that it`s publicly
> available.
>
> You also commented on people claiming to be in the know then you yourself
> claimed to know people involved.
>
> You`re not having a very good day.
Firstly, I`m having a lovely day. It`s raining and I`m stuck in the house... but I have the house and TV to myself - I`m even considering opening a beer and a packet of Doritos! Could you want anything more?
Secondly I Said (go back and read it) "In terms of finances - nobody but the board know the true numbers, but I would suggest our revenues will be up. Home gates are up substantially on last season, shirt sales are also up (thanks to the away shirt popularity)." So I am talking about THIS SEASONS finances... which nobody but the board will know about.
I then went on to state "The accounts for last term (available publicly) are not the rosiest thing you have ever seen, but they aren`t atrocious either". I think the use of the phrase "last term" clearly indicates I was talking about the last set of accounts.
So, to clarify... this seasons accounts are not available and only the board will know what the true financial state is. Last seasons accounts are publically available. I felt this was clear in my post, but hope this helps your understanding.
Thirdly, to clarify what I said regarding my connection to board members... I did state "Although not close to anyone one the board, I know a couple of the gents". To give further details for your understanding Jake, I have worked with one of the board members companies in the past - if I seen him in the street today I would say `hello` and ask how he is, but we are acquaintances and not friends. I went to school with another, when we were in our teens we would occasionally play football. We also had a catch up a few years ago and he was clearly successful going by what he had managed to achieve. I have his phone number, but other than sending a few messages a few years ago, we aren`t exactly in touch and not `best buddies`. Hope this clarifies that statement.
Finally, as Wee Eck states, you are clearly more interested in convincing yourselves that the current league table reflects Rovers financial mis-management over anything else. I have tried to demonstrate how I think both clubs are operating in a comparable manner, but you all seem to be banging the drum that it is because the club are spending more money than is sustainable. If you are concerned about financial mis-management, you may wish to have a wee look at your outstanding debts and compare then to the Rovers.
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Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis
Date: Sun 10 Dec 12:15
When you`ve got a Rovers fan on the forum trying to make out they`re balancing the books when they`re clearly not, what do you expect?
That`s not to say it`s not sustainable per se. The owner seems to have a steady income stream, which he can no doubt use to plug the shortfall for as long as he wants to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Sun 10 Dec 12:22
Rovers are more than due their time in the top flight. Its nearly 25 years since they were there so you can totally understand the wave of optimism currently at Starks. Might explain Chris trawling other clubs forums desperately seeking comfort that everything will be OK.
Watching them on Friday night I have to admit a tiny bit of envy. They play excellent football and I`m beginning to think they have what it takes to push United all the way. Good luck to them.
Still think it`s built on sand but there you go
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Sun 10 Dec 12:25
Quote:
DA-go Par Adonis, Sun 10 Dec 12:15The owner seems to have a steady income stream, which he can no doubt use to plug the shortfall for as long as he wants to.
That`s the point. Chris and others try to make out that they`re definitely not living outwith their means, which is the stick they have constantly beat us with since 2010, when it`s obvious that the new owners are funding this, saying otherwise is just daft
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: weemike
Date: Sun 10 Dec 12:51
There is more than one way to skin a cat. Regardless if they are spending more than us this season. The Rovers are going to have a greater prize money return than us this season. And are one game away from that income being 6 figures greater than ours.
The current board in KDY may consider that money well spent and that`s what matters
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 10 Dec 13:09
Thanks for reiterating, Chris, that the accounts are available and that the "gents" you know are a completely different kettle of fish to the people Shelly claims to know. Great points, well made.
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Topic Originator: chris1883
Date: Sun 10 Dec 13:25
da_no_1 - "trawling other clubs forums desperately seeking comfort that everything will be OK".
The reason I actually posted here was after the game with us you all were condemning your team, many were calling for the sacking of your manager. I posted here to state that I felt your team were going to be OK, they needed a bit of confidence and that I had faith they would turn it around. I was clearly right.
It was you lot that then started lambasting my team stating (with no evidence at all) that:
- Our players were on higher wages than yours
- We had spent too much on a backroom team
- We are living outwith our means
- We have a club `built on sand`
From my point of view, you lot are the ones trying to justify your struggles and failures by offsetting them against unsubstantiated negative reasonings o others.
I have stated, and will continue to do so, that I want your club to be alright. I enjoy derby games and I love the competitive nature of our teams.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 10 Dec 13:34
I think most Pars fan can be content that:
- Got promoted first time out a league where our main rivals have been languishing for a few seasons now
- Training academy now underway
- Solid on season ticket numbers
- Appear to be doing okay financially.
The frustrations relate to a perceived lack of signings but it`s a limited pool of players and Brexit has made bringing in international players more difficult.
It`s barely a decade since we almost went bust forever thanks to severe financial mismanagement by people predicting ridiculous average crowds as a result of spending for success.
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Sun 10 Dec 13:44
Quote:
jake89, Sun 10 Dec 13:34
I think most Pars fan can be content that:
- Got promoted first time out a league where our main rivals have been languishing for a few seasons now
- Training academy now underway
- Solid on season ticket numbers
- Appear to be doing okay financially.
The frustrations relate to a perceived lack of signings but it`s a limited pool of players and Brexit has made bringing in international players more difficult.
It`s barely a decade since we almost went bust forever thanks to severe financial mismanagement by people predicting ridiculous average crowds as a result of spending for success.
Great post Jake. I`ll not add anything further. I'll sleep tonight knowing that Chris thinks we`ll be "alright"
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
Post Edited (Sun 10 Dec 13:44)
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Topic Originator: theparsman1885
Date: Sun 10 Dec 13:47
The new Rovers board have not put a foot wrong yet.
Barrowman and Potter did exactly what they did at Kelty, with good success, and now on a slightly bigger scale.
I don’t buy that Rovers are spending completely out their means, it looks much more like a targeted investment and plan with a number of different fast moving key investments and targets, looking to get a good income return. Our footballing transfer and wage bill for playing and management will be pretty similar to theirs this season, not massively different as some on here will make out. Off the pitch, we now have a much larger commercial department with paid employees than we have had for a long time.
It’ll be interesting to see how it all pans out. In the accounts at the end, let’s see how the balance sheets compare. I suspect a few on here might be eating their words. After all with the training complex lease and no free hold, we may well find our assets v liabilities have gone down, while rovers have gone up.
To compare the reckless spending of our Masterton era in the 00’s to what Raith is doing just now is wrong.
That all said, I do think there is a bubble within their playing team, and hope that United spear them by a good 4 or 5, and we hear a satisfying “POP” coming from KY1, and a sinking down the table. The lauded Ian Murray is found out not to be the tactical masterclass tutor, but a bang average League 1/Championship manager that he always had been. They aren’t THAT good, but mentality and momentum are two powerful things, and they have those in abundance at this time.
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Sun 10 Dec 15:57
You’re always welcome here, Chris.
Pit yer money where your mouth is though and have a shot at our predictor 😉
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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Topic Originator: Stanza
Date: Sun 10 Dec 16:39
I admire the calm way in which chris1883 responds to goading.
It`s surely beyond contradiction to say that only the Board members know the actual current financial state of the company. Anyone, even a paid employee who claims otherwise, is IMO deluded unless they have access to figures for the club`s monthly revenue/expenditure, assets/debts and investment plans.
The accounts of football clubs are in general pretty opaque and capable of many interpretations. That applies from Manchester City downwards, as the EPL is laboriously finding out.
Similarly, the time lapse between accounts being published and the present day means that the accounts are a snapshot of the past. I think it`s correct to say that the last published accounts for DAFC only go up to May 2022, and circumstances have changed significantly since then.
And Dunfermline`s complex ownership structure, with various companies and individuals having an interest in the football club and/or the stadium, makes it difficult to see the complete picture - although one paragraph in the 2022 DAFC accounts stands out:
"The directors acknowledge that the company’s liquidity position relies on the directors continuing to review the
club’s budget and ensure that costs are controlled, and should it be necessary, further support from DAFC Fussball GmbH."
In other words, Dunfermline, perhaps just like Raith, is ultimately dependent on the goodwill of people with money continuing to invest it in the club.
_________________
 Support Dunfermline Athletic Disabled Supporters` Club (DADSC) when you shop online with one of 8000 firms: https://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/causes/dadsc[
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Sun 10 Dec 17:37
Superb Post Stanza
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: goldensixties
Date: Sun 10 Dec 17:38
Good post Stanza. Hopefully our club will continue to make steady progress both on and off the field.
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Topic Originator: shellypar
Date: Sun 10 Dec 19:16
Quote:
chris1883, Sun 10 Dec 09:32
I always love the comments like "I know from a primary source how much their players are on and it`s more than ours".
So, what you are saying is both our board have disclosed to you the individual wages of our players, AND your board has done the same so you can compare. Let`s be honest, this has not happened.
There was also talk about the investment in non-paying staff. There has been, but you need to take this relatively. A lot of the community based staff are funded through non-footballing staff (just like your club).. Several of our non-playing staff are part-time (just like your club) and numbers wise, our backroom staff is actually comparable in size and roles to yours.
Our first-team squad is 22 (including our GK Coach & 1 jr), yours is 25. Realistically our current playing pool is actually 20.
In terms of finances - nobody but the board know the true numbers, but I would suggest our revenues will be up. Home gates are up substantially on last season, shirt sales are also up (thanks to the away shirt popularity).
I do get that it is an easy thing to do to say that a rival team are only more successful because they are over spending and living outwith their means... but clutching to this without evidence (other than a person on a forum claiming they have seen the players payslips) is just folly.
In terms of terminating Goodwillies contract - an amount of £105k is listed in the accounts for `Player Terminations`. This wouldn`t just be for him, but I am sure that it would be a good amount of it. John Simm in the same period waved £99.5k of rent for the ground - ultimately canceling the majority of that out.
The accounts for last term (available publicly) are not the rosiest thing you have ever seen, but they aren`t atrocious either and are comparable to most clubs of a similar size... and certainly less complex than yours.
Although not close to anyone one the board, I know a couple of the gents and going by the way they operate their own businesses I would be very, very surprised they would operate a way that would be financially irresponsible.
Nah am pals wi one of your new big signings, im what your big boys are on and its not cheap at all buddy
COYP
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Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis
Date: Sun 10 Dec 21:25
"It`s surely beyond contradiction to say that only the Board members know the actual current financial state of the company. Anyone, even a paid employee who claims otherwise, is IMO deluded unless they have access to figures for the club`s monthly revenue/expenditure, assets/debts and investment plans.
My starting point is looking at Kelty Hearts spending habits from 2018 to mid-2023. I am then looking at Raith Rovers ability to attract the likes of Murray, Byrne, Hamilton, Smith etc., when there would have been competition from elsewhere, plus appoint Barrowman and Potter, on the back of a couple of thousand season tickets.
I`ve no issue with it, just to be clear. Murray is doing a fantastic job and their ability to win so many tight games with late goals shows that they have great belief and spirit within the squad.
It`s just implausible to suggest that it`s been funded solely by the revenue the club produces, thanks to them selling a bunch of yellow shirts this time around.
Post Edited (Sun 10 Dec 21:34)
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Topic Originator: manic preacher
Date: Sun 10 Dec 22:13
You there is more carp about the Rovers, than the great result against airdrie
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Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis
Date: Sun 10 Dec 22:34
That`s because this discussion has evolved in to one about numbers and people like discussing numbers - as evidenced by your own post...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Sun 10 Dec 23:33
Quote:
manic preacher, Sun 10 Dec 22:13
You there is more carp about the Rovers, than the great result against airdrie
I`m hooked
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Mon 11 Dec 00:12
Quote:
da_no_1, Sun 10 Dec 23:33
Quote:
manic preacher, Sun 10 Dec 22:13
You there is more carp about the Rovers, than the great result against airdrie
I`m hooked
There`s definitely a couple of people fishing on this thread
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Topic Originator: Jeffery
Date: Mon 11 Dec 10:36
Quote:
DA-go Par Adonis, Sun 10 Dec 21:25
"It`s surely beyond contradiction to say that only the Board members know the actual current financial state of the company. Anyone, even a paid employee who claims otherwise, is IMO deluded unless they have access to figures for the club`s monthly revenue/expenditure, assets/debts and investment plans.
My starting point is looking at Kelty Hearts spending habits from 2018 to mid-2023. I am then looking at Raith Rovers ability to attract the likes of Murray, Byrne, Hamilton, Smith etc., when there would have been competition from elsewhere, plus appoint Barrowman and Potter, on the back of a couple of thousand season tickets.
I`ve no issue with it, just to be clear. Murray is doing a fantastic job and their ability to win so many tight games with late goals shows that they have great belief and spirit within the squad.
It`s just implausible to suggest that it`s been funded solely by the revenue the club produces, thanks to them selling a bunch of yellow shirts this time around.
Completely agree. You`ve also missed Stanton from your list.
For me it`s not the overall number of players, or massive salaries, it`s the cost of those not playing that would concern me.
On Friday night Rovers bench had 6 who I would say would be starting in other seasons and would get a game for other decent teams in the league. The ages of those on the bench were 28, 27, 24, 24, 30, 29, 21 and 2 x 18 so some really experienced and you would imagine decent waged players there. Even with our injured players fit our bench wouldn`t be anywhere near as experienced as that.
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Topic Originator: TAFKA_Super_Petrie
Date: Mon 11 Dec 11:01
Odd season throw money at it with only one automatic promotion spot (still think Dundee Utd will win it by 10+ points).
---------------------------------------------------------------
"People always talk about Ronaldinho and magic, but I didn't see him today. I saw Henrik Larsson; that's where the magic was."
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Topic Originator: Geordiepar
Date: Mon 11 Dec 11:49
Raith have started fantastically well.
However the idea that the only people who know about the finances of the club are the directors are totally miscounted. Especially in relation to wages, agents, players, payroll staff etc will be aware of the wages being paid. Certainly they will be aware if they are paying wages that are substantially higher than other clubs. There has been a lot of noise in relation to this, which suggests that there may be some element of truth in it.
Having said that, all teams in the Championship/League One are financially supported by their owners, just to different extents. Our board have a long term plan, whereas the Raith plan seems shorter term and as mentioned a higher finish results in additional income. Slightly riskier policy, as if the additional income doesn’t relate to results then the club needs additional support from the owners.
But so far the policy seems to be working, so well done to them - they’re certainly producing results and also performances and look able to challenge Dundee Utd for the title.
I’m still confident we’ll be competing for a play-off spot and more than happy with the approach our own club is taking. As always most people will argue one extreme or the other, whereas the actual position is somewhere in the middle of both.
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