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Topic Originator: PARrot
Date: Thu 27 Jun 12:54
I hear this all the time, but I don`t get where this dillusion comes from.
We had a great spell in the 60s, then a disastrous spell in the 90s where we tried to buy success, got to a few cup finals, cacked ourselves in Europe, and nearly lost the club.
Apart from that, we have been a yoyo team through all the divisions.
Our greatest rivals have a better head to head with us.
We have a big stadium thanks to the 60s era and a cheating bank official. It wasn`t earned by our stature.
It is actually a millstone round our necks.
I don`t think many professional footballers view us as a big club.
We have no reason to expect any of them to choose us over any other Championship club.
That could change if our long-term plan works.
Our larger crowds are not larger enough to make much difference at this level.
Post Edited (Thu 27 Jun 12:54)
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Topic Originator: kozmasrightfoot
Date: Thu 27 Jun 13:39
OMG! A sensible post. I`ve never bought into this `The Pars are big club`. Averaging 500 - 1000 more fans at our home games compared to others isn`t really all thar much. If we had an extra 10000 - 50000 more fans,then we could claim such an honour.
Dunfermline, Kilmarnock, Motherwell, F#lkirk, Hamilton, Raith etc are all much of a muchness (is that even a saying?), and it would be no surprise to see any of these teams in the top flight or the or the third. It all comes down to the correct hiring, recruitment and being lucky/clever enough to have it all click at the right time.
It`s the same in England, look at the likes of Portsmouth, Bolton and Derby. All big teams that could argue their case for being in the EPL. This paragraph would have been more relevant a year ago seeing as they`ve all been promoted to the Championship. I`m just going to shut up.
Post Edited (Thu 27 Jun 13:39)
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 27 Jun 13:44
It always amuses me when players who join us say the club is `massive`. By what standards?
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Thu 27 Jun 13:49
Although it’s not an exact science the size and stature of clubs is roughly equivalent to the size of city or town.
Two biggest in Glasgow - two in Edinburgh - not forgetting Aberdeen - then Dundee.
Followed by the bigger towns such as Motherwell and Kilmarnock etc. and so on.
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Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu
Date: Thu 27 Jun 14:07
Quote:
PARrot, Thu 27 Jun 12:54
I hear this all the time, but I don`t get where this dillusion comes from.
We had a great spell in the 60s, then a disastrous spell in the 90s where we tried to buy success, got to a few cup finals, cacked ourselves in Europe, and nearly lost the club.
Apart from that, we have been a yoyo team through all the divisions.
Our greatest rivals have a better head to head with us.
We have a big stadium thanks to the 60s era and a cheating bank official. It wasn`t earned by our stature.
It is actually a millstone round our necks.
I don`t think many professional footballers view us as a big club.
We have no reason to expect any of them to choose us over any other Championship club.
That could change if our long-term plan works.
Our larger crowds are not larger enough to make much difference at this level.
I asked David Cook about the stadium being a millstone ,and didn`t get a reply, it`s mostly volunteers that look after the stadium , what exactly makes our more costly that , Rovers , Thistle , even Almondvale ?
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Topic Originator: thebear
Date: Thu 27 Jun 14:24
We were a big club and want to be a big club. Our catchment area is huge, nearest rival is raith, Ignoring Cowdenbeath and Kelty.
I would rather have east end than starks, sorry that ground make them look third rate.
How much more does it cost to have east end than starks not much.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 27 Jun 14:31
For me it`s not to do with performances or stadium capacities but how many come through the door. Next season it`s likely we may be the best supported team in the league. I`m fairly confident we`ve had higher attendances than some Premiership teams.
On a level playing field more bums on seats = bigger player budgets but the reality is balancing books is hard.
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Topic Originator: parsfan97
Date: Thu 27 Jun 14:47
Clearly the more bums on seats = bigger playing budget isn’t working here. Minus Dundee United our crowds are well above anyone else yet we apparently can’t compete with these clubs on wages
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Thu 27 Jun 14:57
That glorious decade in the 60s perpetuated the idea that we are a "big" club. My 1968 Scottish Football Annual even had a chapter titled "Not the Big 2 but the Big 3". Before the arrival of Jock Stein, the Pars had achieved next to nothing in their entire history. The 60s brought us respect and a lot of new fans of school age. I was one, myself. These fans subsequently brought their own kids along even though the Pars had fallen on lean times. The myth that the Pars were a big club that had temporarily fallen on hard times was born. Jim Leishman did a lot to advance that myth.
The bottom line is that the biggest clubs have bigger spending powers. Income depends on a number of factors, including home attendances, sponsorship and the depth of their owners` pockets. Generally speaking, VEE is correct further up. The big city clubs tend to have bigger budgets. Anomalies like Ross Co can be explained by rich benefactors. Clubs from relatively small towns like Motherwell and Perth are very well run, but they also have a huge advantage over Championship clubs with the TV revenue they pick up. Getting into the Premiership is arguably harder than staying there. Over recent years, a number of clubs have gone up and stayed up. Quite a contrast with English football where the gap between the two top flights appears to be huge with 5 of the 6 clubs promoted and relegated two seasons ago, swapping places again last season.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 27 Jun 15:02
Quote:
parsfan97, Thu 27 Jun 14:47
Clearly the more bums on seats = bigger playing budget isn’t working here. Minus Dundee United our crowds are well above anyone else yet we apparently can’t compete with these clubs on wages
That`s because clubs like Dundee Utd have an owner overseeing a multi-million pound loss each season.
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Topic Originator: Jeffery
Date: Thu 27 Jun 15:24
Not really in response to anyone here but just thinking to myself - how long have we been hearing `we are skint` for? Best part of 20 years?
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Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey
Date: Thu 27 Jun 15:31
"I would rather have east end than starks, sorry that ground make them look third rate.
How much more does it cost to have east end than starks not much."
Overall id say Starks park brings in a very considerable revenue compred to what EEP brings in for us
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Topic Originator: parsfan97
Date: Thu 27 Jun 15:35
You’ve misunderstood what I’ve said Jake. Our manager is coming out saying we can’t compete with the likes of Ayr and Partick when we are getting thousands more through the gates than them. That’s worrying we can’t compete with them
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 27 Jun 15:46
Are Partick still benefiting from the legacy of the late lottery winner, Colin Weir? I think he helped them develop a training ground and academy. 😊😊😊.
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Topic Originator: parsfan97
Date: Thu 27 Jun 15:50
Don’t think so cause they weren’t far away from being unable to pay staff the season they beat us on pens in the Scottish cup
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Topic Originator: theparsman1885
Date: Thu 27 Jun 15:54
Depends on what you term as “big”.
We should be aspiring to be like Motherwell, St Johnstone, Kilmarnock or St Mirren in terms of placing and performances in the last 20 years. Rather than potter about mid table in the 2nd tier. Being satisfied with being in the championship demonstrates to me a frightful lack of ambition.
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Topic Originator: weemike
Date: Thu 27 Jun 16:04
Quote:
theparsman1885, Thu 27 Jun 15:54
Depends on what you term as “big”.
We should be aspiring to be like Motherwell, St Johnstone, Kilmarnock or St Mirren in terms of placing and performances in the last 20 years. Rather than potter about mid table in the 2nd tier. Being satisfied with being in the championship demonstrates to me a frightful lack of ambition.
We should be, but we also have to put into context where we were 2 years ago and where we were 10 years ago. In that context being in the top half of the championship is pretty darn good I`d say.
No one doesn`t aspire to be at the top table but it has to be done the correct way,
We have to stay there.
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Topic Originator: Kdy Par
Date: Thu 27 Jun 17:04
Quote:
Playup_Pompey, Thu 27 Jun 15:31
"I would rather have east end than starks, sorry that ground make them look third rate.
How much more does it cost to have east end than starks not much."
Overall id say Starks park brings in a very considerable revenue compred to what EEP brings in for us
But Raith don’t benefit from the revenue as they don’t own the ground.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 27 Jun 17:19
Quote:
Kdy Par, Thu 27 Jun 17:04
Quote:
Playup_Pompey, Thu 27 Jun 15:31
"I would rather have east end than starks, sorry that ground make them look third rate.
How much more does it cost to have east end than starks not much."
Overall id say Starks park brings in a very considerable revenue compred to what EEP brings in for us
But Raith don’t benefit from the revenue as they don’t own the ground.
It`s owned by John Sim though. It also makes a loss.
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Thu 27 Jun 18:10
I think someone posted the stats some time ago that Dunfermline are about the 15th biggest club in Scotland based on all records recorded.
We are actually at our level just now.
We have had the glory years in the 60’s which were extraordinary given the previous 60 odd years before that.
Jim Leishman started the other revival 20 years later carried on by Bert and Jimmy Calderwood to varying degrees but by and large we have always been mediocre
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
Post Edited (Thu 27 Jun 18:11)
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Topic Originator: Rusty Shackleford
Date: Thu 27 Jun 18:11
East End needs a bit of sprucing up but it`s generally one of the best stadia in the country. Most others are either falling apart, unfinished or in the middle of a dive or, even worse, the middle of nowhere. Ours is a decent size, true to its heritage, has a bit of character and in a pretty nice area.
I know I`ll get banned for positivity though.
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Thu 27 Jun 19:39
Whenever I speak to anyone at my office in Edinburgh, they will say "Dunfermline, big club, should be in the top league".
We ARE the biggest Football Club in Fife, and currently the biggest Club outside the top division.
We were the 10th best supported Club in Scotland last season with bigger crowds than some of the top tier teams, and not far behind a few others, despite them having the additional numbers away fans in that league bring.
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Topic Originator: LEGEND85
Date: Thu 27 Jun 19:50
Quote:
red-star-par, Thu 27 Jun 19:39
Whenever I speak to anyone at my office in Edinburgh, they will say "Dunfermline, big club, should be in the top league".
We ARE the biggest Football Club in Fife, and currently the biggest Club outside the top division.
We were the 10th best supported Club in Scotland last season with bigger crowds than some of the top tier teams, and not far behind a few others, despite them having the additional numbers away fans in that league bring.
Agree with this you speak with non pars fans and they speak about us being a big club.
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Topic Originator: ParfectXI
Date: Thu 27 Jun 19:54
I work in Stadia throughout Scotland and EEP is one of the better grounds in the country, certainly better than quite a few top league grounds like Motherwell, St Mirren, Livingston (I know they are down), Dundee etc. A lot of the grounds look good from what you see on tv but when it comes to the behind the scenes where the average punter doesn’t see - you see the real state of the club! EEP is pretty modern and good looking throughout, have a decent support and decent facilities- in this I’d say we ARE a big club, certainly bigger than some premiership pretenders.
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Topic Originator: The Boss
Date: Thu 27 Jun 20:44
Quote:
Rusty Shackleford, Thu 27 Jun 18:11
East End needs a bit of sprucing up but it`s generally one of the best stadia in the country. Most others are either falling apart, unfinished or in the middle of a dive or, even worse, the middle of nowhere. Ours is a decent size, true to its heritage, has a bit of character and in a pretty nice area.
I know I`ll get banned for positivity though.
Agree with this. A lot of good things about it, but could do with a decent sound system on match days. You need the music to be blaring. It’s a football game, not a funeral.
I like black and white (dreaming of black and white)
You like black and white
Run run away
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Thu 27 Jun 21:27
I remember back in the sixties when we were neck and neck with Kilmarnock!
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Thu 27 Jun 22:13
Size of crowds does not necessarily translate into the “big club” perception - its performances and results over successive seasons that are the real benchmark. We are not long out of the third tier and had a very average campaign just ended.
We are a long way off the top league, that’s the reality.
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Topic Originator: widtink
Date: Thu 27 Jun 22:55
Quote:
Rusty Shackleford, Thu 27 Jun 18:11
East End needs a bit of sprucing up but it`s generally one of the best stadia in the country. Most others are either falling apart, unfinished or in the middle of a dive or, even worse, the middle of nowhere. Ours is a decent size, true to its heritage, has a bit of character and in a pretty nice area.
I know I`ll get banned for positivity though.
Consider this a warning 🤣
Admin
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Fri 28 Jun 07:48
The more I look at it the less I think we are a big club. Been a fan since the early noughties and only seen us in the top flight for 4 of those years……yes we had some success in the noughties but that ultimately nearly cost us the club.
We may have a large support and a decent ground, but when constantly underperforming Id say we cant class ourselves as a big club.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Fri 28 Jun 11:27
Too many punters get hung up on crowd sizes as the benchmark.
St.Johnstone have smaller crowds than us or Falkirk, for example - however St.J have won two major trophies in recent years - it’s over 55 years since the Pars lifted the SC.
It’s a long recovery process from the mess left in 2012.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 28 Jun 11:57
Haven`t St Johnstone achieved that through favourable deals from benefactors though?
Most Scottiwh clubs are just existing. The money disparity between us and our nearest neighbours means we can`t possibly compete despite having well supported clubs. TV money in England is obscene but the money for Scottish football is incredibly poor and is one of the worst TV deals out there. The issue is that the big companies like Sky hold all the power. You want these set of games as part of a package with something else. Few people want to sub to Sky for one thing and another provider for something else.
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Topic Originator: PARrot
Date: Fri 28 Jun 14:30
Reading all this, I am concluding that we are not a big club. Therefore, we have no reasonable claim to be expected to beat other clubs to signatures.
We are a mediocre club with potential.
I don`t think that potential will be realised if we try to buy our way there.
We need to do something different if we want to gain and sustain bigger club status.
I think the owners have a good plan to do that, but the fans don`t have the patience to see it out.
If we don`t get off to a decent start it will be murder on here. Sack the board, sack the manager, start again.........
I hope we hit the ground running.
Post Edited (Fri 28 Jun 17:44)
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Topic Originator: weemike
Date: Fri 28 Jun 14:51
This is a big season for all concerned. Start well and who knows.
But start badly and it could be a very tough season indeed.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 28 Jun 14:55
Fans want the board to be financially prudent...but outbid our rivals for players. What`s the problem?
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Topic Originator: fcda
Date: Fri 28 Jun 15:11
The "big club" aspect will be quite low down on a player`s priorities when signing.
Wage, contact length, league, location, regular starter, chance of promotion/success, familiarity with manager/players, personal association - all likely to be higher priorities.
Only if all these things are roughly equal or better would I expect a player to favour a "big club" over a wee team like Raith.
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