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Topic Originator: BlackLight
Date: Sat 26 Oct 12:58
Will there be a Pars TV service today?
There`s a link on the Pars TV site, but it`s not entirely clear whether there`s video or just audio.
Tx
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Topic Originator: dafc4ever
Date: Sat 26 Oct 14:24
From ParsTV website ⬇️
Falkirk vs Dunfermline video subscription for overseas viewers, Audio for UK. CDn connection problems, system upgraded so not expecting issues today. we are closely monitoring.
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Topic Originator: davepars
Date: Sat 26 Oct 14:45
Nothing as yet...
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Topic Originator: Higgys Mohawk
Date: Sat 26 Oct 14:50
Hopefully it works today. Been terrible lately!
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Topic Originator: BlackLight
Date: Sat 26 Oct 14:52
I`m on now, but not getting a stream.
Is it working for anyone else?
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Topic Originator: davepars
Date: Sat 26 Oct 14:54
No stream here.
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Topic Originator: davepars
Date: Sat 26 Oct 14:54
Nearly....
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Topic Originator: Rigger Al
Date: Sat 26 Oct 14:55
nothing ,just a statement Sorry,just about there,camera lost so just trying to connect
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Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par
Date: Sat 26 Oct 15:03
Was fine until afew seconds ago - we heard `testing testing 123`
"hello, your listening to" then silence
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Topic Originator: davepars
Date: Sat 26 Oct 15:03
I`m beginning to think we are victims of a practical joke.
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Sat 26 Oct 15:08
Picture is frozen
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Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par
Date: Sat 26 Oct 15:14
There is NO audio, not `coming and going`
It WAS fine, commentator was much louder than the crowd noise.
He was in mid speech when it went OFF, not lower, not further away.
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Topic Originator: CAPar
Date: Sat 26 Oct 15:16
Don`t care about the commentary, get the audio on so we at least have crowd noise.
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Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par
Date: Sat 26 Oct 15:27
And we are back - at 25:30
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Topic Originator: brian
Date: Sat 26 Oct 15:42
sorry about set up issues,
thought all ready to go then had LAN issue.
switched to wifi but under cover so had to move 15 mins befor ekick off.
had due to the move it took a bit to get all sorted again.
will adjust the mics at half time.
____________________
contact: email me
File Share: https://share2.co.uk
ParsTV: https://ParsTV.co.uk
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Topic Originator: kelty_par
Date: Sat 26 Oct 15:53
How many times does this have to happen before the penny drops? "It was all fine 15 minutes before kick off" should be the motto on the website.
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Topic Originator: pars no1
Date: Sat 26 Oct 16:43
Falkirk tv has been faultless. Picture quality spot on. No buffering no sound issues
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Topic Originator: cammypar 1995
Date: Sat 26 Oct 16:51
Quote:
kelty_par, Sat 26 Oct 15:53
How many times does this have to happen before the penny drops? "It was all fine 15 minutes before kick off" should be the motto on the website.
Probably your internet or device will be at fault 😉
c'mon the pars
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Topic Originator: Berry
Date: Sat 26 Oct 17:13
Another ‘one off’ I believe.
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Topic Originator: brian
Date: Sun 27 Oct 07:46
I`m never sure whether it`s better to hide away and say nothing or just let people know what happened. As we always say, it can be technically challenging at away grounds (not being the BBC!)
As Falkirk is always a difficult ground to stream from I decided to go through early and arrived at 12:20.
Falkirk is always tight for space and the Falkirk camera is now in the area where the away team normally go.
We cannot use a dongle there so need wifi or Lan.
becuase I work with Falkirk I decided to try a new plan yesterday.
I wanted to get a LAN connection and also get a feed from their camera, all sounds nice and simple :o)
As I was early I decided to setup the Falkirk kit in their gantry and setup ParsTV underneath it. However, it need a LAN router to allow us to get a LAN connection. Also setup an HDMI connection splitter.
All this took some time.
Falkirk system was setup and connected to LAN OK and also ParsTV kit setup but when using either router we just couldn`t get a LAN connection.
Eventually decided to then use the wifi coinnection for ParsTV. FalkirkTv was ok as their kit didn`t have to move and they were connected to their LAN.
However, for ParsTV that proved not quite so good wifi connection due to being in a bit of a metal frame under the gantry. So we had to take the kit to the backof the stand into open space. (into cramped space)
However, the HDMI connection didn`t connect and took 5-10 minutes to sort.
by this time it was getting very close to kick off. You can imagine th epanic we ar ein trying to get sorted.
The commentary team then had to go about 50 yards awaya and at that time I realised the audio was breaking up so they had to move much closer, not easy to then get a space.
during this process I realised the audio was then an issue. despite me hearing it on the laptop I couldn`t find the issue - too busy panicing.
finally got it all sorted and the audio levels on mics needed adjusted as it was not great, did manage to balance the audio so that it was workable.
lack of space and being apart did not help one iota !!
then at half time the wifi dropped, and I think it also did once in second half.
I`m very sorry for the frutsrations felt. The issue is we maybe should not turn up if we think we could get issues, but it is encumbant on us to make an effort. This is a kind of one off situation as I had thought getting a LAN connection would have been the best. but at away grounds there are mostly always challenges.
Yesterdays stream went out at 720 rather than 1080 due to the wifi connection and we weren`t quite sure how good it would be.
ParsTV are short staffed so if you have some spare time you are welcome to come and help.
____________________
contact: email me
File Share: https://share2.co.uk
ParsTV: https://ParsTV.co.uk
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Topic Originator: kelty_par
Date: Sun 27 Oct 08:45
Really should look at coming to some sort of agreement where the home side provides the raw footage and then clubs can either go with the home commentary team (or agree to do a half and half job with home commentator and summariser and guest away summariser) or have their own commentary teams going out to their own sites only. Gets the whole "away grounds are tricky sometimes" stuff out the way, puts the onus on the home team to provide an adequate stream (might be an issue for us right enough! But could arguably force investment into a more stable connection in the gantry) and would see an element of equipment sharing and expertise sharing which would surely benefit fans of all clubs.
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Topic Originator: cammypar 1995
Date: Sun 27 Oct 08:51
Agree with KP. Surely we can work with teams to share streams. That being said our systems don`t seem to be improving while others in the league have overtaken us in their packages. Do other teams invest more in their TV product?
c'mon the pars
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Topic Originator: OorWullie
Date: Sun 27 Oct 09:28
Well the cynical chap in me would say why should the home team make an effort to provide the away team with the means to put out a good stream ?
If the away team can’t stream or the quality is poor, that might mean away fans pay for the home stream?
Ca-ching
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Topic Originator: brian
Date: Sun 27 Oct 11:06
thank you very much Kelty Par for offering to sort that out for us with cammypar as your helper.
thats great news, that you seem to think it will be easy.
you have absolutely no idea !!
I think you will find there is at least one person actually trying to do something about getting the teams to work together on this.
some clubs refuse point blank to communicate never mind co-operate.
Falkirk shared their camera feed, as some other clubs do. so we are making inroads there. we would not have had this issue if the LAN cable at their stadium worked.
I`m totally overloaded with work so there is only so much I can do.
Quote:
ParsTV are short staffed so if you have some spare time you are welcome to come and help.
Post Edited (Sun 27 Oct 11:20)
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 27 Oct 11:36
The solution is simple and one I believe Brian or someone from ParsTV is already pushing - you have a common platform and stream at each host club. Subscribers then pay to whichever club they wish (presumably the one they support!) and subs are then split accordingly.
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Topic Originator: brian
Date: Sun 27 Oct 11:47
jake, yes you are on the ball.
working towards that goal, Rome not built in a day ;o)
p.s. need help though
____________________
contact: email me
File Share: https://share2.co.uk
ParsTV: https://ParsTV.co.uk
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Topic Originator: brian
Date: Sun 27 Oct 12:44
Quote:
might be an issue for us right enough! But could arguably force investment into a more stable connection in the gantry)
It`s amazing how mis-information can cause a lot of damage to people`s credability!
____________________
contact: email me
File Share: https://share2.co.uk
ParsTV: https://ParsTV.co.uk
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Topic Originator: kelty_par
Date: Sun 27 Oct 13:56
I`m not an audio visual technician or an IT specialist so won`t be much use either way. But it`s telling that any and all criticism (even constructive criticism where potential solutions are offered as a way of generating discussion) is handled this way. Maybe there are reasons some other clubs refuse to discuss (if you have a thin skin then don`t look at Pie and Bovril or other clubs forums as there are some comments on those from people involved in club TV channels which are less than complimentary about our own offerings and the people involved!). Happy to do commentary as I have done in the past though...
Have to say it does wind me up a bit seeing threads this way. I`ve not really had many in person dealings with Brian and the others who do Pars TV but when I have they`ve been perfectly cordial and I have no issues personally with anyone involved. But when the same issues come up time and again, are reported by fans of Dunfermline and other clubs, have become almost a running gag on here and still end up getting passive aggressive responses from those involved then it just doesn`t help. Why is it that Raith have a much better product that seems more stable. Why can Stenhousemuir put together a professional looking package? Why can the Spartans get a decent stream out? We are not unique in using volunteers for our club TV channels but with the exception of the guys who used to do Falkirk TV (but I think no longer do) we take criticism much worse.
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Topic Originator: brian
Date: Sun 27 Oct 14:37
That`s why we shouldn`t get involved in such chat here.
I`m not getting upset with criticism, I`m getting annoyed at the mis-information you are spreading.
No idea why you are doing it, but hey ho
All I was, saying is that your reference to (un)stable connection is totally untrue. And it`s the Chinese whispers about the so called issues.
____________________
contact: email me
File Share: https://share2.co.uk
ParsTV: https://ParsTV.co.uk
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Topic Originator: fcda
Date: Sun 27 Oct 14:57
Long post, sorry, but I think folk need to be careful here.
Away games are already not guaranteed under the subscription because of these sort of infrastructure issues.
The risk is that the club completely abandon away games, which is unlikely to be the preferred outcome for those criticising.
So practically, how do you improve the service?
You could outsource to a professional company, but that`s likely to push prices up beyond viability.
Spend more time setting up and testing? As volunteers, the team are unlikely to have the time (even if the away clubs allowed it) to turn up the day before to check the setup and make adjustments. Chances are they only get access around 2 hours before kick off.
If it`s their own equipment letting them down, they can only carry so many backups. Chances are any backup equipment will be old gear that`s been replaced. If the away team don`t communicate, and the internet connection provided is poor or non existent, they have to try mobile dongles. Phone signals vary between providers so do they need one dongle per provider just on case? More cost.
Saying "yeah but other teams..." is all very well, but it`s not constructive. Maybe those other teams have more technical experts volunteering? How many other teams actually do away games?
I`m sure Brian`s PR could improve but his focus will be on the technical side. Maybe someone could volunteer to deal with all the PR bits?
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Topic Originator: brian
Date: Sun 27 Oct 15:22
It`s not PR to correct someone telling porkies🤣
You can`t get over your point on a forum, not easy 🤣
As an aside, chatting to Airdrie today, he suggest using EE dongle as it seems more reliable at away grounds. To be fair the WiFi at Falkirk was pretty good yesterday.
But who`s going to pay for a dongle ?
Post Edited (Sun 27 Oct 15:22)
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Topic Originator: arpar
Date: Sun 27 Oct 15:31
I thought the club had decided in August not to do away games due to issues at away grounds?
I think if the home club is offering a stream then that should be sufficient. It should really be the home team who makes the money out of a stream and having more than one stream going out from the same connection may cause bandwidth issues for both parties.
Post Edited (Sun 27 Oct 15:35)
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Topic Originator: brian
Date: Sun 27 Oct 15:44
arpar, yes indeed. that would be the best scenario. and I totally agree with you.
however, the rules are away clubs are allowed to stream. as per SPFL rules.
therefore clubs come to EEP to stream, therefore its encumbant on ParsTV to follow rules (whether you agree) ?
there was talk about ParsTV not going to away games but that needed to be overcome so that the club can get some extra badly-needed revenue (in my opinion). Yes there will be problems on the way but generally it works out.
____________________
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Topic Originator: dd23
Date: Sun 27 Oct 16:21
So how about the club investing a bit of money in this service which they sell, you know, just so punters can be reasonably coy of getting what they pay for.
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Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par
Date: Sun 27 Oct 17:42
"however, the rules are away clubs are allowed to stream. as per SPFL rules."
I can confirm that part.
EVERY rights agreement going all the way back to SPL-Setanta in 2002 has the word `reciprocal` in it, as insisted apon by the (then) OF, and has been carried forward into the SPFL.
This was intended so that they could distribute TV and laterly internet streams to their fan bases abroad without giving a cut of revenues to the home team.
Sadly, some teams are less amenable to an away streaming crew, has always been thus (btw - Hibs were the worst offenders).
The underlying feeling was two-fold
1. they were not getting a cut, so why bother?
2. if the away team`s stream failed (or better, was not attempted) some of their fans would possibly buy the home stream.
From what I`ve seen and heard, DAFC appear to quite happy to allow access and facilities to away crews, even when our guys are obsctructed at their grounds - we have a reasonable size TV gantry, so unless it`s a full OB setup from Sky/TNT, then there is plenty room - maybe not the case at all away grounds.
Someone higher up at EEP needs to have dialogue with their opposite number at other teams to the effect that if facilities are not provided or blocked at away games, then a complaint will be lodged at SPFL and facilities withdrawn at EEP.
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sun 27 Oct 18:18
Brian, what kind of help do you need? Like, what practical assistance would be helpful? Is it literally just a donkey to carry equipment or would you need technical help?
COYP
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Topic Originator: kelty_par
Date: Sun 27 Oct 21:31
"All I was, saying is that your reference to (un)stable connection is totally untrue. And it`s the Chinese whispers about the so called issues."
There have been issues with home games for years, and there have been problems in at least three league games so far this season with sound dropping, laptops updating and streams dropping all reported. To suggest there aren`t issues and/or to think that there aren`t things that can be done better with regards to the stability of the connection (whether that is picture quality, audio quality, streams dropping, laptops running out of charge or restarting or whatever) just seems bizarre when there are posts on here about the stream at most games and comments are made on other social media platforms about the unreliability and poor quality of the stream.
"As an aside, chatting to Airdrie today, he suggest using EE dongle as it seems more reliable at away grounds. To be fair the WiFi at Falkirk was pretty good yesterday.
But who`s going to pay for a dongle ?"
Seriously? What are folk paying for if it`s not for exactly this sort of thing? If the club are running things into the ground so much that they won`t pay for a laptop dongle then serious questions need to be asked about whether they want to keep the service going or whether they want to go down the route of the likes of Hamiltok who don`t bother providing any stream at all.
Anyway, like I say, it`s nothing personal but the first thing you have to do when there is legitimate criticism is to admit there are problems and it seems that is still not happening. Good luck and Andy Tod bless.
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Topic Originator: brian
Date: Sun 27 Oct 21:53
You forgot about the audio stream 14 years ago at Peterhead that dropped out.
Your comments get even weirder, laptops running out of charge, now you are talking a lot of ***t
You are right though, I do recall the laptop or desktop doing a Windows Update in one game. Hardly a ParsTV problem when windows does weird things.
I am not going to reply to any more of your rants. End of.
____________________
contact: email me
File Share: https://share2.co.uk
ParsTV: https://ParsTV.co.uk
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Topic Originator: brian
Date: Sun 27 Oct 22:26
NMcCmassive it just needs people who are willing to learn.
Plenty of training can be provided.
Setting up laptop and cameras is helpfull but I`m pretty sure people will be able to pick up things as they go along
More than happy to provide a demo of what is required.
____________________
contact: email me
File Share: https://share2.co.uk
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Topic Originator: coventrypar
Date: Sun 27 Oct 22:43
An EE dongle/hub is something I use with 99% no issues in many locations across Europe. It’s £23 a month.
"If you have no kind words to say you should say nothing more at all"
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Topic Originator: brian
Date: Sun 27 Oct 23:41
thank you
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contact: email me
File Share: https://share2.co.uk
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Topic Originator: rikaka
Date: Mon 28 Oct 07:00
Starlink roam would be a huge performance and reliability upgrade over 4g\5g dongles.
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Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par
Date: Mon 28 Oct 10:59
Quote:
rikaka, Mon 28 Oct 07:00
Starlink roam would be a huge performance and reliability upgrade over 4g\5g dongles.
Not sure how much satellite reception would be available from a covered tv gantry…
Might be possible with a wifi hookup to a starlink connection outside the ground?
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Topic Originator: ParfectXI
Date: Mon 28 Oct 12:42
Luxembourg Par wrote:
> Quote:
rikaka, Mon 28 Oct 07:00
>
> Starlink roam would be a huge performance and reliability
> upgrade over 4g\5g dongles.
>
> Not sure how much satellite reception would be available from a
> covered tv gantry…
> Might be possible with a wifi hookup to a starlink connection
> outside the ground?
>
>
Starlink does not require a clear view, it’s just like normal WiFi so would work perfectly well in a house never mind a gantry with one side open to the elements! The cost might be prohibitive though with the antenna itself starting around £300.
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Topic Originator: sintv
Date: Mon 28 Oct 13:20
Starlink needs 360 view of the sky
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Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par
Date: Mon 28 Oct 15:45
Quote:
rikaka, Mon 28 Oct 07:00
Starlink does not require a clear view, it’s just like normal WiFi so would work perfectly well in a house never mind a gantry with one side open to the elements! The cost might be prohibitive though with the antenna itself starting around £300.
Close, but no cigar.
https://api.starlink.com/public-files/installation_guide_standard_kit.pdf?
3. Find a clear view of the Sky
Your Starlink needs a clear view of the sky so that it can stay connected with satellites as they move overhead. Objects that obstruct the connection between your Starlink and the satellite such as a tree branch, pole or roof, will cause service interruptions.
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