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Topic Originator: Jock Par36
Date: Sun 10 Nov 11:53
What is wrong at DAFC. We have one of the best supports
in Scotland, and yet we are losing most of the time, to teams
who have hardly any support. We should be beating teams
like Queens Park, Morton, Hamilton and Airdrie every time.
So what is going on, is it the Manager or the board, or is it
a combination of both. Whatever it is, we must do something
urgently or we are going back to League one.
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Topic Originator: craigypar35
Date: Sun 10 Nov 12:01
Never fully recovered from admin.over 10 years ago in my opinion. It’s been grim pretty mainly ever since. Think if we are going down (which is likely with current manager and this group of players) we could end up in admin.again. Hopefully a change of ownership happens soon and we get a new manager in and can somehow survive.
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Topic Originator: ParfectXI
Date: Sun 10 Nov 12:32
It’s been a succession of “Cheap Option” managers. If you look at everything we are on par with Kilmarnock and arguably if in the Premiership we’d have a larger average attendance!
Now we were both in the Championship at the same time and without managers- Killie decided to Splash out and hire Derek McInnes and we went for John Hughes!
Killie were in Europe this season and look where we are… can’t even buy a goal never mind a point!
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Topic Originator: Berkey
Date: Sun 10 Nov 12:47
A succession of poor decisions, on managers and recruitment. Playing the same negative way with the same players and hoping it suddenly clicks.
There was an opportunity to make a difference when we started offering 2-3 year contracts but we blew it by giving them to players on their way down or already proven to be poor at this level.
These players now hamstrung us every summer and put the pressure on new recruitment to be really good but we have no scouts and largely rely on the managers contacts of which there are not many and there’s been way more misses than hits.
Quite a few of these players are out of contract at the end of the season and know they won’t be staying. Same with the manger who knows it’s just the sale of the club keeping him in the job. Not an environment conducive to winning.
The post below replying to me is by one of .nets finest champions of mediocrity!
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Sun 10 Nov 12:50
The bottom line (literally) is that the club is skint, barely two pennies to rub together - and the German beancounters are seeking an exit soonest.
So, no money to pay off McPake`s contract and/or bring in a better quality of player where needed.
Not a particularly attractive propect for any seriously interested potential new owners unless they have access to significant funds, and I suspect there won`t be many in the queue.
Now for the bad news.............
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Topic Originator: thebear
Date: Sun 10 Nov 12:51
My view, poor manager, but hes influenced by poor directors.
Some poor signings and 4/5 players who should be gone
It`s more difficult having gone under 10 years ago, we are rightly working to our budgets. But even so it should be a comfortable budget.
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Topic Originator: pars4life1
Date: Sun 10 Nov 13:57
If the club is skint then there`s serious questions that need answering, received our largest ever transfer fee and the German loan, one of the biggest supports in the league too. Yet we`re acting like clubs half our size who haven`t received any outside investment
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Sun 10 Nov 14:07
What a bundle if joy this thread is
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sun 10 Nov 14:10
It`s the possibility that we may have to repay the loans, which must be the best part of £2m, that means we`re skint.
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Topic Originator: MinnesotaAndy
Date: Sun 10 Nov 14:27
Football can be a cruel game at times. This season, there have been several games the Pars have lost by the odd goal where they deserved at least a point IMO.
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Topic Originator: Indiapar
Date: Sun 10 Nov 15:28
I understand the financial situation and our current predicament. Yesterday`s solutions are today`s problems at the end of they day. Personally I don`t see many teams running over the top of us. We are not a bad team, we are just not scoring enough goals. As a team it`s that aspect that needs to be reflected on. In this league you need to score 2 goals to win games most of the time. The question is, how do you achieve that. I would agree that we can`t wait until we go a goal behind to start playing. It`s a symptom of a lack of confidence that needs to be turned around in my view. In our current position, the worst thing that you can do is turn against each other The focus and question should be what needs to change so that we start scoring more goals I.e. what`s tge objective of the game, and what systems need to be in place to achieve that. We have had several managers now, so what is the common factor or factors that are influence or current situation. 80% of issues have 20% solutions. Clearly a new manager is not one of those 20% solutions otherwise there would have been a resolution 3 times over.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sun 10 Nov 15:32
`80% of issues have 20% solutions.`
I haven`t heard that one before, Indiapar. What exactly does it mean?
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Sun 10 Nov 15:38
"If the club is skint then there`s serious questions that need answering, received our largest ever transfer fee and the German loan, one of the biggest supports in the league too. Yet we`re acting like clubs half our size who haven`t received any outside investment."
The club`s biggest incoming transfer fee was nearly 30 years ago, I doubt there`s a serious question to be raised there.
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Topic Originator: cammypar 1995
Date: Sun 10 Nov 15:47
Quote:
veteraneastender, Sun 10 Nov 15:38
"If the club is skint then there`s serious questions that need answering, received our largest ever transfer fee and the German loan, one of the biggest supports in the league too. Yet we`re acting like clubs half our size who haven`t received any outside investment."
The club`s biggest incoming transfer fee was nearly 30 years ago, I doubt there`s a serious question to be raised there.
Nobody on here actually knows the current financial situation. That being said the BOD must way up the price of paying off mcpake and co plus paying for his replacement against the price of going down.
One thing is for true is we must find a way of getting better out of this squad. If we don`t improve I can see us going down.
c'mon the pars
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Topic Originator: Indiapar
Date: Sun 10 Nov 15:51
Quote:
wee eck, Sun 10 Nov 15:32
`80% of issues have 20% solutions.`
I haven`t heard that one before, Indiapar. What exactly does it mean?
Wee Eck
It a proven decision making approach based on statistical analysis of data or information. It`s often called Pareto analysis. For a set issue you identify the potential causes. 20% of those causes will address 80% of the issue. It`s a problem solving skill that can be applied to many systems recognising that every system is a human construct and therefore has some form of human input that can be improved to achieve the purpose of the system.
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Topic Originator: pars4life1
Date: Sun 10 Nov 15:52
`
It`s the possibility that we may have to repay the loans, which must be the best part of £2m, that means we`re skint` We were told we`d never need to pay these in cash and it was always going to be by share issue. Was MacArthur lying?
`The club`s biggest incoming transfer fee was nearly 30 years ago, I doubt there`s a serious question to be raised there`. Nisbets sell on + original fee was more the McNamara before inflation
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Topic Originator: kelty_par
Date: Sun 10 Nov 16:02
While I agree we should be aiming for a lot better than bobbing between League One and the Championship, to compare us with Kilmarnock is a stretch. They have almost always had larger crowds than us when we`ve been in the same division (not just because they have a larger ground and are closer to Glasgow either) and comparing the two when we were both in the Championship that one season is madness. Killie had just come down the previous season having finished 4th in the recent past under Steve Clarke and were battling at the top of the table. We haven`t been in the top flight for
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Topic Originator: kelty_par
Date: Sun 10 Nov 16:05
While I agree we should be aiming for a lot better than bobbing between League One and the Championship, to compare us with Kilmarnock is a stretch. They have almost always had larger crowds than us when we`ve been in the same division (not just because they have a larger ground and are closer to Glasgow either) and comparing the two when we were both in the Championship that one season is madness. Killie had just come down the previous season having finished 4th in the recent past under Steve Clarke and were battling at the top of the table. We haven`t been in the top flight for about a decade and hadn`t long come up from League One, and were battling relegation again that season. It simply wasn`t the case that they pushed the boat out for McInnes and our board didn`t see/didn`t want to pay for McInnes ffs.
Apart from 2 spells in the top division (in the 60s and the late 90s early 2000s) we`ve been a fairly solid second tier team who should be looking upwards. That`s where I think we should be now incidentally. But any pretentions that we should be Premiership mainstays is wide of the mark IMO
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Sun 10 Nov 16:11
Nisbet`s fee to Hibs was undisclosed I believe ?
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Topic Originator: manic preacher
Date: Sun 10 Nov 17:39
What was Jackie,s fee
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Topic Originator: Buster_Brown
Date: Sun 10 Nov 17:42
Quote:
kelty_par, Sun 10 Nov 16:05
While I agree we should be aiming for a lot better than bobbing between League One and the Championship, to compare us with Kilmarnock is a stretch. They have almost always had larger crowds than us when we`ve been in the same division (not just because they have a larger ground and are closer to Glasgow either) and comparing the two when we were both in the Championship that one season is madness. Killie had just come down the previous season having finished 4th in the recent past under Steve Clarke and were battling at the top of the table. We haven`t been in the top flight for about a decade and hadn`t long come up from League One, and were battling relegation again that season. It simply wasn`t the case that they pushed the boat out for McInnes and our board didn`t see/didn`t want to pay for McInnes ffs.
Apart from 2 spells in the top division (in the 60s and the late 90s early 2000s) we`ve been a fairly solid second tier team who should be looking upwards. That`s where I think we should be now incidentally. But any pretentions that we should be Premiership mainstays is wide of the mark IMO
Although they’ve performed better than us on the park, for the past 10-15 years, I do think it’s a good comparison for the stature as club. Surely when you compare where we should be, it should be in amongst Kilmarnock, Motherwell, St.Mirren, St.Johnstone etc etc?
Where has it gone wrong…..well firstly I’d like to say to the OP that football games and points aren’t won by crowd attendances….but it’s simple, since administration, we have went from poor managerial appointment to poor managerial appointment. We’ve been miss managed off the park as well, and as has been said, we just look out for cheap options.
Until we can grow the club off the field and appoint the right man to lead us on it, then we are pretty screwed. You just got to hope the next appointment is the right one.
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Topic Originator: Buster_Brown
Date: Sun 10 Nov 17:44
Quote:
manic preacher, Sun 10 Nov 17:39
What was Jackie,s fee
Just listened to his Walking Down The Halbeath Road podcast this week. I’m sure it was £650,000 from memory.
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Topic Originator: manic preacher
Date: Sun 10 Nov 18:50
Quote:
Buster_Brown, Sun 10 Nov 17:44
Quote:
manic preacher, Sun 10 Nov 17:39
What was Jackie,s fee
Just listened to his Walking Down The Halbeath Road podcast this week. I’m sure it was £650,000 from memory.
Thank you
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Sun 10 Nov 19:46
I`d say it`s been 20 odd years of miss management on and off the park. There is an entire culture of amateurism from the top to the bottom within the club.
I was at one of those meet the manager nights when Stevie Crawford was in charge and he alluded to inheriting a dressing room unlike any he had seen in his managerial career.
I think since the 2004 Cup Final we`ve been on a downward trajectory, a squad full of players who have stank the place out with their attitude. This is going back to the Masterton years when the money for bonuses started getting cut back.
Have a think about the players we have had during that time, and how many of them played the best football of their careers here, how many of them came here and improved as players? Not many. Probably Cardle, Gibson, El Bahktoui, Longridge, Nesbit and Edwards. Look at how many were awful here but go on to establish themselves in the Premier League or Championship or even further down the leagues in England and look solid players. Most that come here seem to be just going through the motions.
There seems to be a general feeling of "that`ll do" here, and it`s been going on like this for years, when the whole place should be striving for being as good as it can be
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Topic Originator: cammypar 1995
Date: Sun 10 Nov 20:29
Quote:
red-star-par, Sun 10 Nov 19:46
I`d say it`s been 20 odd years of miss management on and off the park. There is an entire culture of amateurism from the top to the bottom within the club.
I was at one of those meet the manager nights when Stevie Crawford was in charge and he alluded to inheriting a dressing room unlike any he had seen in his managerial career.
I think since the 2004 Cup Final we`ve been on a downward trajectory, a squad full of players who have stank the place out with their attitude. This is going back to the Masterton years when the money for bonuses started getting cut back.
Have a think about the players we have had during that time, and how many of them played the best football of their careers here, how many of them came here and improved as players? Not many. Probably Cardle, Gibson, El Bahktoui, Longridge, Nesbit and Edwards. Look at how many were awful here but go on to establish themselves in the Premier League or Championship or even further down the leagues in England and look solid players. Most that come here seem to be just going through the motions.
There seems to be a general feeling of "that`ll do" here, and it`s been going on like this for years, when the whole place should be striving for being as good as it can be
Hard to disagree with that. The club loved to talk about the match day experience. Unfortunately the match day experience is about as good as the performances on the park.
c'mon the pars
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Sun 10 Nov 22:25
I’m sure the Nisbett sell on and the KDM Investment are detailed in the last accounts……
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
Post Edited (Sun 10 Nov 22:26)
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Sun 10 Nov 22:38
Quote:
cammypar 1995, Sun 10 Nov 15:47
Quote:
veteraneastender, Sun 10 Nov 15:38
"If the club is skint then there`s serious questions that need answering, received our largest ever transfer fee and the German loan, one of the biggest supports in the league too. Yet we`re acting like clubs half our size who haven`t received any outside investment."
The club`s biggest incoming transfer fee was nearly 30 years ago, I doubt there`s a serious question to be raised there.
Nobody on here actually knows the current financial situation. That being said the BOD must way up the price of paying off mcpake and co plus paying for his replacement against the price of going down.
One thing is for true is we must find a way of getting better out of this squad. If we don`t improve I can see us going down.
The club losses for the year 2022-23, based on the League 1 season were over £1 million.
As reported and in the public domain.
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Topic Originator: kelty_par
Date: Sun 10 Nov 23:59
"Although they’ve performed better than us on the park, for the past 10-15 years, I do think it’s a good comparison for the stature as club. Surely when you compare where we should be, it should be in amongst Kilmarnock, Motherwell, St.Mirren, St.Johnstone etc etc?"
We could and should be competing with both Saints, I`d say, yes. Both were in the second tier for decent spells in recent memory, have had long periods in the doldrums and had seasons when they were direct competitors with us for the second tier title. Of course both those clubs were essentially gifted brand new stadiums which helped them a lot and St Johnstone in particular make a lot of money from funeral teas.
Kilmarnock have had one season outside the Premier in recent memory and I can`t remember the last time Motherwell were outside the Premiership although they were in the relegation play off against Scotland`s newest club. They have both got bigger grounds than us and have provided several Scotland internationals in recent years.
The other obvious clubs you could make a good argument for being "bigger" than are Ross County (who are artificially inflated due to Roy MacGregor and his millions) and Livingston who have punched well above their weight for almost their entire existence.
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Mon 11 Nov 08:37
Quote:
kelty_par, Sun 10 Nov 23:59
"Although they’ve performed better than us on the park, for the past 10-15 years, I do think it’s a good comparison for the stature as club. Surely when you compare where we should be, it should be in amongst Kilmarnock, Motherwell, St.Mirren, St.Johnstone etc etc?"
We could and should be competing with both Saints, I`d say, yes. Both were in the second tier for decent spells in recent memory, have had long periods in the doldrums and had seasons when they were direct competitors with us for the second tier title. Of course both those clubs were essentially gifted brand new stadiums which helped them a lot and St Johnstone in particular make a lot of money from funeral teas.
Kilmarnock have had one season outside the Premier in recent memory and I can`t remember the last time Motherwell were outside the Premiership although they were in the relegation play off against Scotland`s newest club. They have both got bigger grounds than us and have provided several Scotland internationals in recent years.
The other obvious clubs you could make a good argument for being "bigger" than are Ross County (who are artificially inflated due to Roy MacGregor and his millions) and Livingston who have punched well above their weight for almost their entire existence.
Worth noting who the Livi manager was to put them initially into position to punch above their weight for that length of time…
Probably the most controversial sacking of a Pars manager
COYP
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Topic Originator: parsfan97
Date: Mon 11 Nov 08:58
Biggest issue is we have too many players who aren’t good enough for this level, some of them got us relegated last time in this league and are still here! Players who were bench warmers at the end of last season after we brought about 8 loan players in are now expected to keep us up. What a sad situation that we are just scraping to stay up and only 11 games in! Absolute pathetic stuff
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Mon 11 Nov 09:10
Possible suggestion of simply a poor board? The wheels came off when Ross, Braisby and co decided to bring in Peter Grant on the cheap because he had one good game against us (and lost...).
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Topic Originator: Bandy
Date: Mon 11 Nov 09:43
Pretty harsh to blame the appointment of Peter Grant for the last 20 years of mediocrity.
I think there have been a number of poor decisions - it`s hard to separate out the poor ones from the downright awful ones.
One hill I`ll die on is that Stephen Kenny could have been a good manager for us if the players under his watch has shown the levels of professionalism expected of, well, professional footballers.
That relegation was the start of everything beginning to unravel...
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Mon 11 Nov 10:36
Obviously administration set us back massively after the success of the early noughties, but I think we missed a couple of big chances post admin -
1. Losing the play off final to Cowden - had we gone up that year we would have been in a league with Rangers, Hearts, Hibs, Falkirk and Raith in it - huge revenue increase on the likes of Forfar, Stranraer and Stenhousemuir. Stay up first year and the revenue from that season alone would have seen us by for a good couple of years.
2. Missed opportunity in 2018 - after consolidating in Champ again and making play offs the next year, we really should have been pushing for the title year 3 - we absolutely flopped early that year and ended up binning AJ (rightly) but think we then went cheap option for the manager and didnt recover from that - yes Crawford got to the play offs, but that was a struggle in itself where we then dropped out very limply.
3. Grant/Hughes debacle - speaks for itself. Im always one for giving a new manager time, but clearly in the end these appointments cost us. Big time. Now I don’t have anything against McArthur, and believe he should have remained on board as the financial brains behind the operation as clearly he done a great job stabilising us post admin/covid, but his footballing choices were blatantly poor. It cost us that season due to such a poor start based on his recommendation to the new board, but ultimately the 2nd part of that year is solely on the Germans.
All in all, I think we have been badly managed at a higher level for numerous years throughout the time Ive been a fan. In 2 decades of being a fan I have seen us in the Premiership for just 5 of those……for a club with our fan base it’s clearly mismanaged from the too end.
How do we fix it? At the minute, not got a clue. We need an investor thats willing to take a loss in the aim of getting promotion to maybe see a return from the increased revenue, but in this day and age do those investors still exist? Doubtful. For now though we do need a new manager, as McPake is well off it for what we need.
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Mon 11 Nov 10:57
Quote:
jake89, Mon 11 Nov 09:10
Possible suggestion of simply a poor board? The wheels came off when Ross, Braisby and co decided to bring in Peter Grant on the cheap because he had one good game against us (and lost...).
I don’t want to be overly harsh on them and say they’re a poor board because there are other things they do for the club and do it well but in terms of footballing decisions I don’t think they’ve made many good ones.
I think McPake is cooked at Dunfermline but genuinely, he must be thinking he’s hard done too. The first summer after promotion they only signed players we had on loan, the second summer they decided they weren’t signing anyone. I’m sure that GMBH were approached in April about preparing for the next season and it was a hard no from them.
The squad we have now reflects the decision not to pursue players we should have been looking to sign.
COYP
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Mon 11 Nov 15:14
The board haven`t really helped McPake but, being honest, when he has been given money he`s signed some absolute donkeys.
I`ve said it a few times that the club has gone cheap in some areas and it`s cost. Players is one such area. Even a few years back under Crawford we had this reliance on loan deals. You can`t build a good foundation with a squad that changes every summer.
The board have dug deep but it needs accepted that fresh investment is needed. Look at the plans for the Dundee training set up in comparison to ours. Look at their plans for a new stadium too. Not so long ago we were pumping them and only a few seasons ago we were in the same league. The difference has been the investment. We need guys who can shrug off spending a few million, which are few and far between unfortunately.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Mon 11 Nov 15:35
Dave_1885, Mon 11 Nov 10:36~#~
Grant/Hughes debacle - speaks for itself. Im always one for giving a new manager time, but clearly in the end these appointments cost us. Big time. Now I don’t have anything against McArthur, and believe he should have remained on board as the financial brains behind the operation as clearly he done a great job stabilising us post admin/covid, but his footballing choices were blatantly poor. It cost us that season due to such a poor start based on his recommendation to the new board, but ultimately the 2nd part of that year is solely on the Germans.
For the sake of accuracy, Dave, Ross McArthur was not involved in any shape or form in the hiring of Hughes, but the appointment of Peter Grant was.
Grant`s time in charge was a disaster but he wasn`t helped by the unprofessional behaviour of a small group of players - and sometimes all it takes is one or two bad apples.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: Bandy
Date: Mon 11 Nov 15:57
Grant`s time in charge was a disaster but he wasn`t helped by the unprofessional behaviour of a small group of players - and sometimes all it takes is one or two bad apples.
Ditto Stephen Kenny. Although that wasn`t a small group. Allegedly.
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Topic Originator: TAFKA_Super_Petrie
Date: Mon 11 Nov 16:12
Who else was at it? I know about PW disappearing abroad on holiday when he claimed he had Covid but what else was going on.
---------------------------------------------------------------
"People always talk about Ronaldinho and magic, but I didn't see him today. I saw Henrik Larsson; that's where the magic was."
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Mon 11 Nov 16:50
Quote:
TAFKA_Super_Petrie, Mon 11 Nov 16:12
Who else was at it? I know about PW disappearing abroad on holiday when he claimed he had Covid but what else was going on.
red-star-par, Sun 10 Nov 19:46~
I was at one of those meet the manager nights when Stevie Crawford was in charge and he alluded to inheriting a dressing room unlike any he had seen in his managerial career.
I was at that meeting, too, SC did not name names, but I believe some of these jokers were still at EEP when PG took over. PW is the most notorious because of his behaviour (was he not signed by Grant?) For the record, he phoned in sick, didn`t specify Covid, but was told to stay at home as a precaution. He then went to a stag party in Portugal, came back with a nice tan and thought nobody would notice.
Not the brightest bulb in the box.🙄
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: parathletic
Date: Mon 11 Nov 17:27
Watson was signed by Crawford the year before.
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Mon 11 Nov 17:43
Quote:
GG Riva, Mon 11 Nov 15:35
Dave_1885, Mon 11 Nov 10:36~#~
Grant/Hughes debacle - speaks for itself. Im always one for giving a new manager time, but clearly in the end these appointments cost us. Big time. Now I don’t have anything against McArthur, and believe he should have remained on board as the financial brains behind the operation as clearly he done a great job stabilising us post admin/covid, but his footballing choices were blatantly poor. It cost us that season due to such a poor start based on his recommendation to the new board, but ultimately the 2nd part of that year is solely on the Germans.
For the sake of accuracy, Dave, Ross McArthur was not involved in any shape or form in the hiring of Hughes, but the appointment of Peter Grant was.
Grant`s time in charge was a disaster but he wasn`t helped by the unprofessional behaviour of a small group of players - and sometimes all it takes is one or two bad apples.
Thats why I stated that the start of that year was on Ross and the Germans have to take sole responsibility on Hughes.
I agree that we seem to have had a problem over the years of players “downing tools” as well, which certainly doesnt help us out.
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Topic Originator: Andrew283
Date: Tue 12 Nov 03:31
Quote:
red-star-par, Sun 10 Nov 19:46
I`d say it`s been 20 odd years of miss management on and off the park. There is an entire culture of amateurism from the top to the bottom within the club.
I was at one of those meet the manager nights when Stevie Crawford was in charge and he alluded to inheriting a dressing room unlike any he had seen in his managerial career.
I think since the 2004 Cup Final we`ve been on a downward trajectory, a squad full of players who have stank the place out with their attitude. This is going back to the Masterton years when the money for bonuses started getting cut back.
Have a think about the players we have had during that time, and how many of them played the best football of their careers here, how many of them came here and improved as players? Not many. Probably Cardle, Gibson, El Bahktoui, Longridge, Nesbit and Edwards. Look at how many were awful here but go on to establish themselves in the Premier League or Championship or even further down the leagues in England and look solid players. Most that come here seem to be just going through the motions.
There seems to be a general feeling of "that`ll do" here, and it`s been going on like this for years, when the whole place should be striving for being as good as it can be
Brilliant post. Players seem to come here and 9/10 stagnate or get worse until they move away
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