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Topic Originator: Parplod
Date: Thu 10 Apr 06:50
Very accurate assessment. States the blindingly obvious when he says that only the top players have the necessary skill levels to play this way. Alarmingly young kids are being coached in this nonsense.
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Topic Originator: Buster_Brown
Date: Thu 10 Apr 07:02
I think the author is spot on in all that he says there
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Topic Originator: Never10yairds
Date: Thu 10 Apr 07:05
Been listening to Sam Allardyce speaking against tippy tappy on his podcast for a while. Football should above all be entertaining. That means goals, chances and crunching tackles.
I’ve never been so bored watching football as I was this season.
So glad we are done with that crap now and at least try to get it up the park and make something happen.
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Topic Originator: Buster_Brown
Date: Thu 10 Apr 07:34
Quote:
Never10yairds, Thu 10 Apr 07:05
Been listening to Sam Allardyce speaking against tippy tappy on his podcast for a while. Football should above all be entertaining. That means goals, chances and crunching tackles.
I’ve never been so bored watching football as I was this season.
So glad we are done with that crap now and at least try to get it up the park and make something happen.
I listen to it as well and support Sam’s views. As those who know me will know, my other team is West Brom as it’s my Dads team and he was brought up in the area (actually heading down there this weekend). Anyway, I remember when Sam was in brief charge and his football was so refreshing, despite the relegation from the EPL (he simply ran out of games).
People have this view that he’s a dinosaur that plays hoof ball, but you couldn’t be further from the truth. It’s direct and it’s getting the ball into areas to play, whilst being defensively sound.
Sadly, his time at the club was during the covid “behind closed doors” period but it’s the most excited I had been, watching WBA since the Hodgson era, when the club finished 7th in the EPL, playing in a very similar way.
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Topic Originator: Parfect69
Date: Thu 10 Apr 08:07
Even top players down south struggle with this. Seen lots of goals conceded due to players playing out from the back.
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Topic Originator: Jeffery
Date: Thu 10 Apr 08:34
The link didn`t work for me so here is an amended version that did:-
https://scottishfsa.org/the-men-who-are-ruining-scottish-football/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR5eTX6VBcjQDejWHHteiUFcrjDINvGT0ygIKOB-5uEAUjaZwpnk29Cn3jLcfA_aem_-cdi51_6NwclSgBJrvJKcw
Agree with the article although I don`t watch the Premiership so don`t know about the incidents referenced.
Football has become boring as players are coached not to take individual risk. There seems fewer mavericks these days as players are coached to pass, pass, pass, and to only shoot from certain higher xG areas.
This part of the article reminded me of us under Tidser, who claimed to want the players....`to play football the right way`. I can`t imagine he learned that style on the streets growing up:-
There is nothing exciting about watching your defenders pass the ball slowly back and forth; nothing exciting about the ball being passed from the wing, back inside, then back outside, ad nauseam. The time it takes to get the ball up the field to the areas of the pitch where a goal might be scored, means that modern, super-fit teams have two banks of players defending their goal almost all the time. It is to quote a fan who sits near me at McDiarmid Park, “boring as ****.”
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Topic Originator: Bertie Paton
Date: Thu 10 Apr 08:48
Cannot bear this sytle of football. The sooner the better this fad runs it`s course.
Can young managers not think for themselves anymore, instead of trying to copy Pep.
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Thu 10 Apr 08:50
Excellent read
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey
Date: Thu 10 Apr 09:08
" Alarmingly young kids are being coached in this nonsense."
The way to make it work must be for it to be "natural". Just now we have guys who have played one way for a decade all of a sudden trying to change "overnight" to a different style. If its coached from young ages then its natural and some of the mistakes made by players who havent been used to it are diminished.
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Topic Originator: neils
Date: Thu 10 Apr 09:10
I hate it, one of the reasons I don`t watch the Champions League etc anymore.
Dreadful stuff, added to the list, anyone who quotes "Pep" or "Poch" or note how Man City etc does things should be imprisoned!
Most clubs don`t have billions to spend on the best players, so can`t play that way.
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Topic Originator: Parsweep
Date: Thu 10 Apr 09:39
Quote:
neils, Thu 10 Apr 09:10
I hate it, one of the reasons I don`t watch the Champions League etc anymore.
Dreadful stuff, added to the list, anyone who quotes "Pep" or "Poch" or note how Man City etc does things should be imprisoned!
Most clubs don`t have billions to spend on the best players, so can`t play that way.
Speaking of the champions league .
I watched PSG last night and would love to see them win the thing .
Fast attacking football with the whole team involved .
Get this slow passy passy possession based game binned .
Bobvo
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Topic Originator: Buster_Brown
Date: Thu 10 Apr 10:04
Quote:
neils, Thu 10 Apr 09:10
I hate it, one of the reasons I don`t watch the Champions League etc anymore.
Likewise, and the EPL (although I do watch the occasional MOTD from time to time)
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Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu
Date: Thu 10 Apr 10:25
TNT sports pundits raving about PSG attacking style, especially 2 wingers who take men on instead of passing inside or backwards .
Sorry, but Mr Tidser your football ideals are outdated and you have been left behind .
Post Edited (Thu 10 Apr 10:25)
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Topic Originator: parathletic
Date: Thu 10 Apr 10:36
Horses for courses. Trying to play out from the back on a terrible pitch in winter in Scotland is asking for trouble, even the top players would struggle.
Bournemouth have played the most long balls in the EPL this season and I always think they are an entertaining watch. Spurs have played the fewest long balls and are having a nightmare because they are predictable and Ange`s lack of adaptability has been shown up.
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Topic Originator: dafc-chris1
Date: Thu 10 Apr 10:38
Football is all about results and is not about entertaining people
Post Edited (Thu 10 Apr 10:41)
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Topic Originator: king lad
Date: Thu 10 Apr 10:53
I`d disagree on the champions league a bit, certainly in the last couple days I don`t think we`ve seen much of the Pep style of play. Quite a lot of fast tempo attacking football on show with plenty of opportunities.
As has been said though, these managers (such as Tidser and Grant in our case) insisting on passing out from the back and around the back incessantly and slowing the pace down at the Scottish championship level is total nonsense.
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Topic Originator: MessiPar
Date: Thu 10 Apr 14:27
No one can say the great Barcelona team with Xavi and Iniesta were a boring watch. Well, there always was someone who complained about it to be boring but that`s just putting it down to people not being able to appreciate great passing football. These people will never learn and hence Scottish/British football will always be the laughing stock of world football, imo.
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Topic Originator: kelty_par
Date: Thu 10 Apr 14:59
One can MessiPar and with good cause. When you are miles better than your opponents, win 3-0 and pass the ball around like you`re playing a 90 minute game of Rondo it becomes a pointless exercise and - yes - boring to watch. When they were up against the better teams domestically and in Europe and had to do something special to break down a defence or create angles nobody had seen until the pass was made then yes, it was interesting and occasionally exciting. Technically they were exceptional but they weren`t always exciting. A lot of Barcelona games in that era were the kind of matches you`d have on in the background as wallpaper, they weren`t much watch spectacles.
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Topic Originator: MessiPar
Date: Thu 10 Apr 15:08
Of course one can, kelty par. In the same manner that one can always tell these people that they are neanderthals and can`t appreciate great football with the inevitability that they will always say it`s boring football and not that they don`t know enough about the beautiful game to appreciate it
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Topic Originator: shellypar
Date: Thu 10 Apr 15:09
Quote:
kelty_par, Thu 10 Apr 14:59
One can MessiPar and with good cause. When you are miles better than your opponents, win 3-0 and pass the ball around like you`re playing a 90 minute game of Rondo it becomes a pointless exercise and - yes - boring to watch. When they were up against the better teams domestically and in Europe and had to do something special to break down a defence or create angles nobody had seen until the pass was made then yes, it was interesting and occasionally exciting. Technically they were exceptional but they weren`t always exciting. A lot of Barcelona games in that era were the kind of matches you`d have on in the background as wallpaper, they weren`t much watch spectacles.
I would disagree tbh but you do you
COYP
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Topic Originator: TAFKA_Super_Petrie
Date: Thu 10 Apr 15:26
You only need to see the Premiership Years that SKY use as a filler program when a live event finishes early and they have time kill
The stuff from the late 90s to maybe a decade later is light years more enjoyable than stuff you see today.
Wingers taking risks, not afraid to try and run at someone and try dribble past them - all that sort of thing. Nowadays they`ll look up, pivot and play a `safe` pass back into the holding midfielder as it`s zero risk.
Grealish at Man City is a great example of that. He was an absolute maverick at Villa, ran at players, super exciting. Even at that he rarely gave the ball away and was fantastic getting the team up the park taking the pressure off the rest of the team whilst winning plenty free kicks himself.
Nowadays it`s like he`s been turned into a robot and all that been zapped out of him.
---------------------------------------------------------------
"People always talk about Ronaldinho and magic, but I didn't see him today. I saw Henrik Larsson; that's where the magic was."
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Topic Originator: Gaz3822
Date: Thu 10 Apr 15:31
I personally got bored with Barcelona after a few years of them doing what they did.
Yip they were the best of the best at that time but just eventually bored me to tears.
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Topic Originator: Par Dan
Date: Thu 10 Apr 15:32
I genuinely think people should watch Barcelona from 2008-2013 and understand that this is the only genuine tiki taka football and absolutely everything since has been a terrible copy.
That’s the greatest side of the modern era imo because of those players and the set up . It’ll never happen again like that .
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Topic Originator: Par Dan
Date: Thu 10 Apr 15:37
Quote:
Gaz3822, Thu 10 Apr 15:31
I personally got bored with Barcelona after a few years of them doing what they did.
Yip they were the best of the best at that time but just eventually bored me to tears.
Bored of them battering Man Utd? Bored of them scoring 4 and 5 goals a game ? Bored of Messi scoring 92 goals in a calendar year.
Give me that over the utter garbage we watch nowadays,
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Topic Originator: Par Dan
Date: Thu 10 Apr 16:06
Quote:
kelty_par, Thu 10 Apr 14:59
One can MessiPar and with good cause. When you are miles better than your opponents, win 3-0 and pass the ball around like you`re playing a 90 minute game of Rondo it becomes a pointless exercise and - yes - boring to watch. When they were up against the better teams domestically and in Europe and had to do something special to break down a defence or create angles nobody had seen until the pass was made then yes, it was interesting and occasionally exciting. Technically they were exceptional but they weren`t always exciting. A lot of Barcelona games in that era were the kind of matches you`d have on in the background as wallpaper, they weren`t much watch spectacles.
I think that’s absolute nonsense tbh. Prime Messi was playing and every single game was worth watching for that fact alone . I think Scottish people just enjoy rubbishing everything .
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Topic Originator: kelty_par
Date: Thu 10 Apr 17:21
When Messi was in full flow and dribbling past defenders and playing passes nobody else could see then sure. When they were 3-0 up after half an hour and were just strolling around passing it about while their beleaguered opponents were just chasing shadows then not so much. By that stage they were often like those mismatched pre-season friendlies you sometimes see, and nobody can surely claim to enjoy matching them? Except MessiPar of course, because he "understands" football and anyone who wants a bit of jeopardy, excitement or intensity in their football should shut up and eat their gruel.
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Topic Originator: thebear
Date: Thu 10 Apr 17:32
But usnt that what Paris did to Aston villa last night, so it can work if you have skill and quality
Post Edited (Thu 10 Apr 17:33)
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Thu 10 Apr 19:29
Quote:
thebear, Thu 10 Apr 17:32
But usnt that what Paris did to Aston villa last night, so it can work if you have skill and quality
The same thought crossed my mind when I read through this thread. At one point, the stats flagged up that PSG had completed over 700 passes with a 94% success rate while Villa had less than half that total with about 74%.
There`s the pointless passing around at the back we played under McPake and Tidser, and then there`s the quick, probing, first-time passes in and around the opposition penalty area, trying to create goalscoring chances while retaining position as exemplified by PSG and by Guardiola`s Barca and Man City during their 4 in-a-row.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: MessiPar
Date: Thu 10 Apr 19:32
"Except MessiPar of course, because he "understands" football and anyone who wants a bit of jeopardy, excitement or intensity in their football should shut up and eat their gruel."
There`s hope for you yet, kelty par :-)
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Topic Originator: parathletic
Date: Thu 10 Apr 19:57
The Barca team had Xavi, Iniesta and Messi who are all vertically challenged, they wouldn`t win a single ball in the air.😂 They would all probably have been deemed too small if they came through the Scottish youth system!
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Topic Originator: Par-timer
Date: Thu 10 Apr 20:32
Agree with almost all that has been said here, tippy tappy can be wonderful to watch if the players have the skill and vision to play one-touch football, zipping the ball around quickly to create the space for runners and playing slide rule passes into the space ahead of them.
Watching Scottish Championship defenders trundling the ball around on a bobbly pitch has further lowered the entertainment value at EEP, which had already been at a low in the AJ years when we spent several years watching someone like Lee Ashcroft hoof long balls in the vague direction of a wee guy (usually Nicky Clark) with the inevitable loss of possession.
I was astonished to learn this week that despite the self-evidently sub-standard fare on offer, the Pars are fourth in the Championship stats for “shots at goal” this season, so no surprise that we are not the only fans complaining about a lack of entertainment this season.
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Topic Originator: Par Dan
Date: Thu 10 Apr 22:25
Tippy Tappy Tosh has never ever translated to tiki Taka . They ain’t the same .
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Topic Originator: Andrew283
Date: Fri 11 Apr 09:10
Quote:
Par Dan, Thu 10 Apr 15:32
I genuinely think people should watch Barcelona from 2008-2013 and understand that this is the only genuine tiki taka football and absolutely everything since has been a terrible copy.
That’s the greatest side of the modern era imo because of those players and the set up . It’ll never happen again like that .
100% this. That team was a joy to watch
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Topic Originator: par-91
Date: Fri 11 Apr 11:04
Tiki-taka is fast-paced possession football. Quick passing with a clear intent on getting the ball forward. You didn’t get anywhere near the number of backwards and sideways passes that we saw under Tidser. Even when the ball was played backwards or sideways, it was very quickly moved forward again.
Having a CB stopping the ball and standing still is absolutely nothing like what tiki-taka is. You need a much higher calibre of player than anything we’ve ever seen at the club, to be able to play possession based football effectively. Anyone at this level is limited, or they wouldn’t be here. We need to play to the strengths of our players, rather than asking them to do things that they can’t.
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Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu
Date: Fri 11 Apr 11:42
I think Tiki Taka , evolved into Tippy Tappy Tosh , which is what Man City have been for the past few years , as was said earlier, the waste of Grealish was a direct action from this kind of football.
The 2 Champions league days were much more attacking , and hopefully this is the way the game continues.
On a Pars note, Archie Stevens looked great in his first game , facing up the defender and taking him on, since he`s reverted to what most modern players do, take the easy option, no real effect on the game , but your stats may look good .
Post Edited (Fri 11 Apr 11:43)
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Topic Originator: Par Dan
Date: Fri 11 Apr 13:26
Quote:
saltonsgonagetu, Fri 11 Apr 11:42
I think Tiki Taka , evolved into Tippy Tappy Tosh , which is what Man City have been for the past few years , as was said earlier, the waste of Grealish was a direct action from this kind of football.
The 2 Champions league days were much more attacking , and hopefully this is the way the game continues.
On a Pars note, Archie Stevens looked great in his first game , facing up the defender and taking him on, since he`s reverted to what most modern players do, take the easy option, no real effect on the game , but your stats may look good .
Man City have never ever played Tiki Taka . Never ever
Post Edited (Fri 11 Apr 13:26)
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Topic Originator: kozmasrightfoot
Date: Fri 11 Apr 14:34
All I want from football is a competent keeper, a solid defence, wingers that can put in a dangerous cross and midfielders capable of accurate shots and delicate/creative passes into the box.
It`s not too much to ask for.
Pars fan.
Magpies fan.
Mens tennis fan.
Alternative rock fan.
Not a fan of much else.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Fri 11 Apr 15:00
Quote:
saltonsgonagetu, Fri 11 Apr 11:42
I think Tiki Taka , evolved into Tippy Tappy Tosh , which is what Man City have been for the past few years......
With respect that is complete bollox. Man City started to stutter before Christmas. Until then, they had been the best team in England for 4 seasons and everybody`s tip to make it 5 titles in a row. Too many players, injured, or off form, or too old and the wheels started to come off the wagon....
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Fri 11 Apr 15:00
Quote:
par-91, Fri 11 Apr 11:04
Tiki-taka is fast-paced possession football. Quick passing with a clear intent on getting the ball forward. You didn’t get anywhere near the number of backwards and sideways passes that we saw under Tidser. Even when the ball was played backwards or sideways, it was very quickly moved forward again.
Having a CB stopping the ball and standing still is absolutely nothing like what tiki-taka is. You need a much higher calibre of player than anything we’ve ever seen at the club, to be able to play possession based football effectively. Anyone at this level is limited, or they wouldn’t be here. We need to play to the strengths of our players, rather than asking them to do things that they can’t.
Top post,par-91.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu
Date: Fri 11 Apr 15:52
Quote:
GG Riva, Fri 11 Apr 15:00
Quote:
saltonsgonagetu, Fri 11 Apr 11:42
I think Tiki Taka , evolved into Tippy Tappy Tosh , which is what Man City have been for the past few years......
With respect that is complete bollox. Man City started to stutter before Christmas. Until then, they had been the best team in England for 4 seasons and everybody`s tip to make it 5 titles in a row. Too many players, injured, or off form, or too old and the wheels started to come off the wagon....
You missed the point , Man City have been successful, but tedious to watch .
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Fri 11 Apr 18:23
Quote:
saltonsgonagetu, Fri 11 Apr 15:52
Quote:
GG Riva, Fri 11 Apr 15:00
Quote:
saltonsgonagetu, Fri 11 Apr 11:42
I think Tiki Taka , evolved into Tippy Tappy Tosh , which is what Man City have been for the past few years......
With respect that is complete bollox. Man City started to stutter before Christmas. Until then, they had been the best team in England for 4 seasons and everybody`s tip to make it 5 titles in a row. Too many players, injured, or off form, or too old and the wheels started to come off the wagon....
You missed the point , Man City have been successful, but tedious to watch .
Ah, OK. Let`s agree to disagree. They`ve certainly been less tedious to watch than Man U.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Sat 12 Apr 11:37
Quote:
parathletic, Sat 12 Apr 08:07
There was an interesting article on BBC yesterday that coincided with this thread. It discusses the decline of the dribble and increase in number of passes in the EPL.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c74zkrx7zzgo
I don`t think it`s a particularly new phenomenon, parathletic. Oakley lad, Terry Wilson, who also played briefly for the Pars, joined Villa after he left school in the mid 70s. I can`t remember who the manager was, but his mantra was "Get it and give it."
Terry told me, with heavy irony, "If you beat 3 men and smashed it into the top corner in the first half, you be subbed at half time for not following orders." Most managers will see dribbling as a higher risk of conceding possession. If you face opponents with fast, counter attacking players, that`s asking for trouble.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: parathletic
Date: Sat 12 Apr 12:40
If would just be good to see it in the final third on occasion rather than turning back and playing the safe ball which also gives the defensive side more opportunity to get organised. If you don`t buy a ticket and all that. Messi took it for a dribble often enough in tandem with the one touch stuff.
I look at a Simon Murray for example who is just a direct runner but he causes all kinds of chaos for defences up here and creates plenty chances for himself.
I hear what you are saying about the counter but just try not to become predictable. Most sides have holding midfielders and defenders to cover. If a side picks you off from back to front like that sometimes you need to hold your hands up and say well done but it doesn`t happen all that often, especially at our level? You need to find the balance but our goals for column shows it the attacking department that`s let us down.
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Topic Originator: BlackLight
Date: Sat 12 Apr 22:36
Apparently the Man City goalie has seven assists this season.
Tobi has a monster kick out that is also super accurate. We should make the most of it without apology.
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