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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Sat 31 Jan 18:21
What is it?
Over confidence? I`ve heard it said that if you take the field feeling over confident you`re liable to get stuffed, and there may not be time enough in a match to correct it.
But teams do, sometimes wake up during a game.
How did the first goal not wake us up?
Is it lack of leadership on the field?
I don`t understand the psychology of players who do what we did against Rovers, Hibs and Saints, and then go backwards, like off a cliff. Is there a weight of expectation problem when we play at EEP?
Not against Hibs.
Do we have a specialist Psychologist/Motivator on our staff? Is it lack of motivation - or what?
Post Edited (Sat 31 Jan 18:24)
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Topic Originator: PARadise
Date: Sat 31 Jan 18:27
The sign of a top team is one where they set the standard regardless of who they’re playing. Lennons quite right to go through them for today. If any of those boys have aspirations of not being a Scottish Championship player all their days they’d do well to listen.
The lack of intensity was our problem today which has been the case multiple times at home this season.
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Sat 31 Jan 18:32
This mucking about with the captaincy is not helping matters. Benny is spent. Hamilton is too troublesome. And Mullen is not ready.
NL needs to rethink the captaincy for the run-in. It is such an important role. On the face of it, there would be two or three good candidates, but without knowing their personalities, this has to be a decision for NL.
Nevertheless, the current situation with the captaincy is definitely unsatisfactory.
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Topic Originator: Sacktheref69
Date: Sat 31 Jan 18:39
Definitely looked like a mentality issue today. That said, I don’t think it’s a major problem just yet. But if we go into Kelty with the same attitude of just turning up and expecting to get the win, we’ll be in real trouble. That’s exactly the sort of game where you get punished for complacency. A few players needing a big reality check before then.
This is Andy Tod`s world and we are lucky to live in it.
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Sat 31 Jan 18:39
`Lack of intensity` you say Paradise. Like not getting fired up enough? But what is lacking in them, if they can`t see the objective (top four + satisfied fans and management) - win bonus as well. Are they jaded from their efforts in the big games?
Could a Roy Barry have got them going today? Now I`m thinking of the semi finals in `68 v St Johnstone and how lacklustre we were - even with R B for captain.
Is there an answer/ solution to the problem? NL says they`re gonna work on it. I wonder what that will involve?
I think a strong, vocal captain must be part of the answer. But probably not Ashcroft type. Needs to be hard but fair - Roy Barry or Norrie type? We don`t have such a person.
Post Edited (Sat 31 Jan 18:43)
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Topic Originator: Par
Date: Sat 31 Jan 18:47
The captain does not need to be only the one with the armband, we should have leaders all over the park, unfortunately we do not have many players with the mentality to take charge.
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Topic Originator: Berkey
Date: Sat 31 Jan 18:49
We haven’t managed to string together 3 league wins for some time and not this season.
There will still be hangover from the last 3-4 years of poor performance because A some of those players are still in the team and B the more vocal players in the team are also possibly the weaker performers such as Hamilton and Bene who can’t get in the team now.
We’re still a bit fragile and easy to defend against. Only way to improve this is remove the last of the previous regime who were no strangers to losing and throwing in the towel and just get better players in who have the right character to set the standard expected.
Post Edited (Sat 31 Jan 22:37)
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Topic Originator: GJS93
Date: Sat 31 Jan 18:49
"NL says they`re gonna work on it. I wonder what that will involve?"
new players come to mind.
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Sat 31 Jan 18:53
Yeh, it needn`t be a case of bullying - just a closeness maybe - pals that stick together and fight - maybe our players don`t know each other well enough - need more bonding?
I would think a big part of what a manager does is working on players` psychology. I think NL is likely to see it as a personal challenge, and get tore in!
Post Edited (Sat 31 Jan 18:56)
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Topic Originator: TAFKA_Super_Petrie
Date: Sat 31 Jan 18:58
We are better when teams are coming at us.
Don`t seem to be able to break down and play through teams who are happy to sit in and play against us on the counter attack.
Lack of creativity, quality or mentality or a bit of all three but it`s becoming a theme at home.
---------------------------------------------------------------
"People always talk about Ronaldinho and magic, but I didn't see him today. I saw Henrik Larsson; that's where the magic was."
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Topic Originator: Ianoappar
Date: Sat 31 Jan 19:19
All good teams have leaders and players that verbally communicate on the park,have said it foe a while we don`t hear any voices from this team,Benedictus was vocal but since his absence there`s been nothing.
It`s been ongoing in football for many years that players after a few good results think because they are playing a so-called lesser team don`t apply themselves properly,hence the result today.
On to the Scottish Cup next week and maybe just maybe today was a wake up call.
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sat 31 Jan 19:28
Btw I think Morrison was good today. It was a shame he was stuck with Rudden who worked hard but didn’t show enough quality and A Tod who showed a little bit of quality when he got involved but largely stood around watching the game. Hopefully Morrison can continue to have a positive influence at that end of the park but he’s going to need the guys roundabout him to do their bit as well.
The back 3, Gilmour, Fraser and Morrison all got pass marks from me. Everyone else seemed to have a howler
COYP
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Topic Originator: summeragent
Date: Sat 31 Jan 19:58
Quote:
NMCmassive, Sat 31 Jan 19:28
Btw I think Morrison was good today. It was a shame he was stuck with Rudden who worked hard but didn’t show enough quality and A Tod who showed a little bit of quality when he got involved but largely stood around watching the game. Hopefully Morrison can continue to have a positive influence at that end of the park but he’s going to need the guys roundabout him to do their bit as well.
The back 3, Gilmour, Fraser and Morrison all got pass marks from me. Everyone else seemed to have a howler
I thought only Morrison and Abdulia got pass marks, maybe Ngwenya and Gilmore at a push Thought the rest were poor. Surprised Fraser was so poor that’s unusual.
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Topic Originator: dd23
Date: Sat 31 Jan 20:32
Mullen shouldn’t be captain imo. Today for example, Gilmour was in the refs face for ages before he talked himself in to a yellow card. Mullen should have got him out of the way and he is the one who should be in the refs face as he is allowed to do this as captain, but he wasn’t even watching what was going on.
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Topic Originator: Gaz3822
Date: Sat 31 Jan 20:50
Players need to play like their careers are at stake every week.
Turn up thinking a game might be easy is a disaster
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Topic Originator: CrossPar
Date: Sat 31 Jan 20:57
Think Mullen may have been given captain as an inducement to stay. Whether that works is debatable.
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Sat 31 Jan 21:00
It was quite simply we were not ready for Airdrie’s high intensity right from the kick off.
They managed early on to get in behind our defence with very clever runs and the linesman got some stick but he was spot on to be truthful.
We played well in spells afterwards but we look so weak up front.
Rudden and Morrison just do not work together and I was crying out for Kane to be on at half time.
Chris Hamilton had his worst game in months too but the whole team looked ‘Jittery’ today.
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: GJS93
Date: Sat 31 Jan 21:05
"Gilmour was in the refs face for ages before he talked himself in to a yellow card."
he got booked for his reaction to Telfer`s rugby tackle on him, the referee was taking his time trying to work out if it was the correct players.
the captaincy was not the issue today.
"maybe just maybe today was a wake up call"
they have had more than enough this season alone, i dont see how another will make a difference.
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Topic Originator: Rigger Al
Date: Sat 31 Jan 22:05
Quote:
CrossPar, Sat 31 Jan 20:57
Think Mullen may have been given captain as an inducement to stay. Whether that works is debatable.
Agree
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Topic Originator: Polt
Date: Sat 31 Jan 22:12
Need a captain like wee Josh, during our Admin he took the young ones under his wing he gave them confidence showed how hard you needed to fight and just to just go out and do what they could but the best they could. I cannot see that in any player here at the moment.
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Topic Originator: Par
Date: Sat 31 Jan 22:25
Andy Geggan springs to mind, captained the team during the dark days.
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Topic Originator: Jeffery
Date: Sat 31 Jan 22:53
Said to my son after about an hour today that you couldn`t hear our players communicating with each other in or out of possession.
All you could hear in EEP was Airdrie players.
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Topic Originator: thebear
Date: Sat 31 Jan 23:57
Bene is probably out based on football skills, Hamilton, I`ve never been a fan of, today summed him up, he will miss games now could be him not getting back in
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Topic Originator: Never10yairds
Date: Sun 1 Feb 02:19
For me one of the big problems with mentality is the tendency to turn backwards so often. It’s infuriating. There were numerous occasions today when Fraser or Todd could have took a defender on/played for a corner/played a ball into the box towards a waiting Rudden or other pars players but instead turned and played it backwards to Hammy or a centre back.
On the captaincy issue, Gilmour is the glaringly obvious choice watching from the stand but I don’t know him so his personality may not be suited. At least he’d get less bookings.
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Topic Originator: Sacktheref69
Date: Sun 1 Feb 06:41
Hamilton’s aggression gets romanticised far too much. There’s a fine line between passion and recklessness, and yesterday was well over it. It wasn’t “showing passion”, it was sheer stupidity and it put us under pressure when we didn’t need it. You can’t be giving the opposition cheap momentum like that, especially in tight games when we have struggled to get into the game upto that point.
The contrast between the two wing backs was glaring. Todd’s body shape was a killer, every time he received it he was already opened up towards his own goal, so everyone in the ground knew the ball was going backwards before it even reached him. Far to predictable and slow. Fraser, on the other hand, at least tried to play on the front foot. First touch forward, looking to commit someone, massive difference even if it didn’t always come off.
What worried me most was the extreme regression. I get that championship teams generally struggle for consistency but yesterday was so far below the standard set by the same team for the last 3 games. Watching us struggle to complete simple five yard passes under no pressure was pure Tidser/McPake era stuff. That lack of confidence on the ball, players snatching at it, hiding instead of showing, it’s not what we’ve been used to under Lennon.
The only silver lining is Lennon. You’d like to think there’ll be no brushing that performance under the carpet. I can absolutely see them being hauled in today and some long, uncomfortable sessions throughout the week. Whether it translates on the pitch against Kelty is the big question, but at least there’s someone there now who won’t accept that as the norm.
This is Andy Tod`s world and we are lucky to live in it.
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Topic Originator: Berkey
Date: Sun 1 Feb 08:35
Agree on the body language and how the first look when they get the ball is sideways or backwards. It’s okay to have 1 or 2 doing that but you can’t have most of your team doing that or you’ll get nowhere.
Front 2 were poor yesterday, rudden’s control and hold up play was non esistant and well Andy Tod might aswell have been a traffic cone so we didn’t have many out balls to move us up the park apart from just going long down the channels as a play it’s prob demoralising when you look up and there’s very few options or movement.
Is there a collective tiredness in the team? Some perhaps not fully fit and the youngsters struggling as first full season at this level? Not convinced, after 5 minutes yesterday you could see airdrie wanted it more.
The post below replying to me is by one of .nets finest champions of mediocrity!
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Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Sun 1 Feb 08:56
Quote:
dd23, Sat 31 Jan 20:32
Mullen shouldn’t be captain imo. Today for example, Gilmour was in the refs face for ages before he talked himself in to a yellow card. Mullen should have got him out of the way and he is the one who should be in the refs face as he is allowed to do this as captain, but he wasn’t even watching what was going on.
I thought Mullen was maybe the captain as he was away. A last nod to his performances. That is how I read it yesterday as when Gilmour and Hamilton being on the park, I found it a strange call.
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Topic Originator: Indiapar1
Date: Sun 1 Feb 09:13
I think given NL is looking for a defende, that suggests to me JCM is away in the summer. He is not the finished article in my view and plays well with Nuru and Kieron. Another year at EEP would make sense to me to build a reputation as a defensive unit. They could all work together collectively to build their reputatiins individually. Not sure in the world of short term contracts, agents etc such things are taken into account. It seems to be more about short term gain. Its no surprise under these conditions that players can move to other clubs and on into relative obsurity. Its a fine line and a decision that neds to be considered very carefully. Its a bit like a club, sometimes they are just not ready for promotion as tgey just come straight back down. Thats where we are at the moment.
G Wardrope
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Topic Originator: preston par
Date: Sun 1 Feb 15:22
Thought Andy Tod really struggled today. If I didn`t know any better, it looked like her was carrying a knock or something. A good few yards off it, not where he should be in attacking situations, and generally seemed uninterested. I know his style of play can look like that anyway but just seemed like he was feeling sorry for himself.
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Topic Originator: Berkey
Date: Sun 1 Feb 15:34
Agree Preston, really noticed a lack of strength yesterday so easily eased out of it, constantly on his heels and was rarely showing or interested in getting involved in the game. Hindsight would suggest someone else should have started as even a half fit Kane would have given us more.
It’s his first season at this level and he won’t have played this many first team games before so is bound to struggle as the season goes on and he gets wee knocks etc.
The very large variance in his performance levels is a bit worrying but hopefully consistency comes as he gains experience etc.
The post below replying to me is by one of .nets finest champions of mediocrity!
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sun 1 Feb 16:18
In the 10 minutes of highlights Tod was involved in setting up three decent chances in the first half.
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Topic Originator: Indiapar1
Date: Sun 1 Feb 17:19
I think the players we hace are good enough. We should have taken confidence from the last two games. When we went one down there was no real response. Airdrie out foxed us, and despite sitting back they scored two goals and deserved to win the game.
G Wardrope
Post Edited (Sun 01 Feb 17:35)
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Topic Originator: GJS93
Date: Sun 1 Feb 17:24
^^ that shows they are not good enough then.
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Topic Originator: Sacktheref69
Date: Sun 1 Feb 18:24
Quote:
Berkey, Sun 1 Feb 15:34
Agree Preston, really noticed a lack of strength yesterday so easily eased out of it, constantly on his heels and was rarely showing or interested in getting involved in the game. Hindsight would suggest someone else should have started as even a half fit Kane would have given us more.
It’s his first season at this level and he won’t have played this many first team games before so is bound to struggle as the season goes on and he gets wee knocks etc.
The very large variance in his performance levels is a bit worrying but hopefully consistency comes as he gains experience etc.
I think you’ve made your point about Tod not offering much, Berkey, and fair enough, plenty seem to agree he wasn’t at his best yesterday (me included). But I think it goes too far to say he wasn’t trying. That’s nonsense.
Rudden, Morrison and Tod had next to nothing to work with and still had to graft to try and make something happen. Saying Tod was “rarely interested in getting involved” feels like a wild take and unnecessary once the original point about how poor we were had already landed.
It’s hardly his fault that Kane can’t be relied on for more than a token 10 minute appearance off the bench, or that Barney is back at Falkirk and there’s nobody else stepping up to ease the burden of providing goals. In an ideal world, I’m sure Lennon would love to manage his minutes the way he’s done with John Tod, but the reality is we simply don’t have the personnel at the required level. January is a tough window, and players rarely come in match-fit or sharp enough to make an immediate impact.
We all know we were hopeless yesterday and I don’t see many arguing otherwise but Tod is still our best chance of a goal at the moment. There’s no need to invent a narrative and suggest he wasn’t trying.
I’ve faith in Lennon and the squad to put in the work this week and put things right next week. We are still a young team unfortunately your going to get games like this every so often. It`s how we react to it we should be judging them on.
This is Andy Tod`s world and we are lucky to live in it.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Sun 1 Feb 18:45
^^^^Good post^^^^^
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: twin par
Date: Sun 1 Feb 19:15
I am all for getting it sorted in training this week.No doubt they would get a rollicking on Saturday,and rightly so.Lets move on,and let’s get the attitude and moral right for next Saturday.No player wants to play badly,so let’s go again.
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Sun 1 Feb 19:55
Do players have a problem with choosing between possession and getting forward? Not just our players - I noticed St Johnstone seemed to be guilty of it against us, sideways and backwards, slow in their own half, slow build-up overall. They call it `recycling the ball`? I don`t suppose it depends on experience so much, e.g. the likes of Bene and Hammy are both guilty. It might be to do with lack of confidence in the moment. And it might be to do with coaches telling players to keep the ball?
If it`s a different kind of game we face against teams at EEP than when we play away - what should be our basic approach at home? Shouldn`t we have two or three different approaches, or game plans, we can call on in-match, to overcome problems and get the better of oppositon?
Do our players sometimes look as if they`ve been told `keep the ball at all costs`?
Aren`t the best coaches ones who tell the players - go out and express yersel !!
It looks like it was said to Barney!
Post Edited (Sun 01 Feb 19:59)
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Topic Originator: Indiapar1
Date: Sun 1 Feb 21:42
Quote:
GJS93, Sun 1 Feb 17:24
^^ that shows they are not good enough then.
I think the players are good enough. What this league shows is that you have to be on it every time you step onto the park otherwise teams will punish you.
G Wardrope
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Topic Originator: thebear
Date: Sun 1 Feb 23:19
We struggle when teams come here to not lose, but when stupid keeper mistakes, we can`t win either.
The thing that bugs me is the manager knows it`s not going well and know some players are off it, but does not change tactics or players.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Mon 2 Feb 06:03
Onandupthepars, Bill Shankly famously made possession a religion at Anfield. Giving the ball away was a crime, he drummed into his players, reasoning that your opponents can`t score when you have the ball. This served Liverpool very well for over two decades. Barcelona, Spain and more recently, Man City have enjoyed great success by starving their opponents of the ball.
This simple truth is obvious to managers, coaches, players and fans alike. The difference with lesser teams is that they`re not so good at getting the ball back when they lose it and can be hurt by opponents playing a quick, counterattacking game. Playing hopeful balls forward will almost certainly result in losing possession in the Championship because the players are decent. Faced with the choice, most players will play a "safe" pass to a teammate rather than risk giving the ball away that could result in a goal for the opposition.
Final thought - players like Butch Wilkins and our own Neil Lennon made a career of "recycling the ball."
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: alwaysaPar
Date: Mon 2 Feb 10:10
Quote:
GG Riva, Mon 2 Feb 06:03
Onandupthepars, Bill Shankly famously made possession a religion at Anfield. Giving the ball away was a crime, he drummed into his players, reasoning that your opponents can`t score when you have the ball. This served Liverpool very well for over two decades. Barcelona, Spain and more recently, Man City have enjoyed great success by starving their opponents of the ball.
This simple truth is obvious to managers, coaches, players and fans alike. The difference with lesser teams is that they`re not so good at getting the ball back when they lose it and can be hurt by opponents playing a quick, counterattacking game. Playing hopeful balls forward will almost certainly result in losing possession in the Championship because the players are decent. Faced with the choice, most players will play a "safe" pass to a teammate rather than risk giving the ball away that could result in a goal for the opposition.
Final thought - players like Butch Wilkins and our own Neil Lennon made a career of "recycling the ball."
But there are different ways of recycling the ball, what we have for the most part in teams these days is slow , ponderous passing which doesn`t hurt the opposition at all, when you play a possession game like the teams mentioned above , the passes were quick, fast and moved the other team around more in order to create the space.
Also for this to work you have to have players that are willing to move around the park, far too many static players just hanging around waiting for a pass
Post Edited (Mon 02 Feb 10:11)
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Topic Originator: Sacktheref69
Date: Mon 2 Feb 10:23
The Championship basically runs on inconsistency and it’s why a bad week feels catastrophic and a good run suddenly puts everyone back in the mix.
The performance was unacceptable, but there’s no value in drowning in it. What matters now is the reaction on Saturday the right intensity and the basics done right is a must.
This is Andy Tod`s world and we are lucky to live in it.
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Topic Originator: Berkey
Date: Mon 2 Feb 11:09
We clearly have some good footballers but feels like we struggle to break teams down due a combination of lacking any real wingers who can take a man on, anyone with pace to burn again to break the lines and our formation and set up which means our wide players tend to get the ball on the half way line or in our own half.
We need to start looking at how we set up at home, a good manager doesn’t just play the same set up every week regardless of the opposition.
The post below replying to me is by one of .nets finest champions of mediocrity!
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Mon 2 Feb 11:38
Quote:
alwaysaPar, Mon 2 Feb 10:10
But there are different ways of recycling the ball, what we have for the most part in teams these days is slow , ponderous passing which doesn`t hurt the opposition at all, when you play a possession game like the teams mentioned above , the passes were quick, fast and moved the other team around more in order to create the space.
Also for this to work you have to have players that are willing to move around the park, far too many static players just hanging around waiting for a pass
I can`t argue with any part of your post, alwaysaPar, as it`s spot on. 😁
The reason our passing is not quick or incisive enough is because our players are not at the levels of those who played for Barca, Spain, Man City and Liverpool, though from memory, I don`t think Shankly`s Liverpool passed the ball around particularly quickly.
The manager has to work out solutions for the players he has, as he admitted in his post-match interview. He added that the players themselves aren`t going to find them. I`d imagine it`ll involve less "recycling" and more "vertical" balls hoping to find a forward and lead to more goals, as that`s where our main problems lie.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: neilholland999
Date: Mon 2 Feb 13:29
Quote:
GG Riva, Mon:
The reason our passing is not quick or incisive enough is because our players are not at the levels of those who played for Barca, Spain, Man City and Liverpool, though from memory, I don`t think Shankly`s Liverpool passed the ball around particularly quickly.
We are obviously not going to play at those levels, but teams like Raith, Falkirk and Patrick Thistle have consistently played a lot quicker and more positive football than us over the past few years. Even Arbroath to a certain extent (despite their limited budget etc)
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Topic Originator: Indiapar1
Date: Mon 2 Feb 14:01
Yes I agree with tge above. I have watched other teams over tge season and tgey seem to be alot sharper and decisive with moving tge ball. We have done it in phases in games but it does not seem to have fully bedded in. When we pass forward, we seem to struggle to pick up the second ball. Similarly from set pieces of corners. Morrison is not going to win balls in the air so its important to play it into his feet or into space behind the defenders. He hasnt struck up an understanding with Zak Rudden yet so maybe that will come in time.
G Wardrope
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Topic Originator: alwaysaPar
Date: Mon 2 Feb 15:23
Quote:
GG Riva, Mon 2 Feb 11:38
Quote:
alwaysaPar, Mon 2 Feb 10:10
But there are different ways of recycling the ball, what we have for the most part in teams these days is slow , ponderous passing which doesn`t hurt the opposition at all, when you play a possession game like the teams mentioned above , the passes were quick, fast and moved the other team around more in order to create the space.
Also for this to work you have to have players that are willing to move around the park, far too many static players just hanging around waiting for a pass
I can`t argue with any part of your post, alwaysaPar, as it`s spot on. 😁
The reason our passing is not quick or incisive enough is because our players are not at the levels of those who played for Barca, Spain, Man City and Liverpool, though from memory, I don`t think Shankly`s Liverpool passed the ball around particularly quickly.
The manager has to work out solutions for the players he has, as he admitted in his post-match interview. He added that the players themselves aren`t going to find them. I`d imagine it`ll involve less "recycling" and more "vertical" balls hoping to find a forward and lead to more goals, as that`s where our main problems lie.
Obviously i agree our players aren`t on a level to particularly pass the ball as well as those other teams, what is poor though is the lack of movement
Shanklys team were certainly not an exponent of passing the ball quickly, more to get it to the wingers as quick as possible and getting them to make the byline and cut it back.
And I believe it was Johan Cruyff that came out with the statement ` if the opposition doesn`t have the ball they cant score ` or words to that effect 😁
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Topic Originator: Indiapar1
Date: Mon 2 Feb 16:00
Of course its how you interpret that. The objective of the game is to score goals. At some ppint you have to take risks. How you mitigate that risk and create goal scoring opportunities is the question. Preictability, slow build ups, wayward passing all adds to the challenge of putting the ball in the vack of the net. Ii thought Xallum Morrison put in some good crosses, put tge vall behind the defence a couple of times to get their defence defending and turning towards goal.Airdrie did the same to us effectively but were able to capitalise on it.
G Wardrope
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Topic Originator: Buster_Brown
Date: Mon 2 Feb 17:18
On the point of playing with speed, moving the ball quickly etc etc, that also goes for counter attacking.
We don’t score goals like Airdrie’s second, because we break so far then, assuming we are still in control of the ball, we bang it back to the half way line and start again. Why?
Loving You, Is In My DNA 🇾🇪
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