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Topic Originator: Paralex
Date: Sat 23 May 20:03
I thought the tactics and the team selection was not too bad at all. Not that I can see into Neil Lennon`s mind pre- match, but I reckon he thought of using the young fit guys first half and depending on how that turned out, alter it for the second half. Both Kane and Rudden are a bit ring rusty and the way Kane throws himself about, he`s always prone to injury. I never thought we had much of a chance against Celtic at Hampden. It`s like a home game to them. Our team gave their all and the fans gave their all. Our behaviour was impeccable and it was a brilliant day out. Very much looking forward to the new season and happier than ever to get my season ticket.
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Topic Originator: twin par
Date: Sat 23 May 20:11
Yes a great day.As said,the management,players and fans all played their part.No trouble,no vile songs,just people supporting their team.So proud today,roll on next season!
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Topic Originator: DBA
Date: Sat 23 May 20:21
If you have to make 3 changes at half time, you`ve got it wrong. Lennon has done wonders with us, but he got the starting line-up wrong today.
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Topic Originator: Jock Par36
Date: Sat 23 May 20:31
Totally agree
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Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par
Date: Sat 23 May 20:49
The team selection was inches from being brilliant.
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Topic Originator: Berkey
Date: Sat 23 May 20:49
Oh I dunno, everyone knows what Tash gives you and quite frankly it’s not a lot so no idea what he had done to start today.
Might aswell have put fyfe on as at least he runs about.
The post below replying to me is by one of .nets finest champions of mediocrity!
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Topic Originator: Kintos
Date: Sat 23 May 20:52
Quote:
Paralex, Sat 23 May 20:03
I thought the tactics and the team selection was not too bad at all. Not that I can see into Neil Lennon`s mind pre- match, but I reckon he thought of using the young fit guys first half and depending on how that turned out, alter it for the second half. Both Kane and Rudden are a bit ring rusty and the way Kane throws himself about, he`s always prone to injury. I never thought we had much of a chance against Celtic at Hampden. It`s like a home game to them. Our team gave their all and the fans gave their all. Our behaviour was impeccable and it was a brilliant day out. Very much looking forward to the new season and happier than ever to get my season ticket.
Kane is anything but ring rusty. The last 7/8 games are the most game time he’s ever achieved at the Pars, and we’ve bore those fruits as he has been immense. Even if we’re employing the “Kane can’t last 90 mins” argument, it’s the SC Final and he’s our biggest attribute! He’d have also been a shoe in for getting Trusty an earlier booking, and perhaps a sending off.
Lennon undoubtedly got the starting 11 wrong. Not sure why, but it’s undeniable. Still back him to the core. What he’s achieved in the last 12 months with us has been immense!
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Topic Originator: PARrot
Date: Sat 23 May 21:05
Quote:
DBA, Sat 23 May 20:21
If you have to make 3 changes at half time, you`ve got it wrong. Lennon has done wonders with us, but he got the starting line-up wrong today.
Or it was tactical and nearly worked.
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Sat 23 May 21:25
Quote:
PARrot, Sat 23 May 21:05
Quote:
DBA, Sat 23 May 20:21
If you have to make 3 changes at half time, you`ve got it wrong. Lennon has done wonders with us, but he got the starting line-up wrong today.
Or it was tactical and nearly worked.
Nope, I think he got it wrong. I’ve elaborated on that on another thread.
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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Topic Originator: Paralex
Date: Sat 23 May 21:32
Ok, while Kane may not technically have been ring rusty, his appearances have been rather bit-part and he`s known to be less capable of lasting a whole game. Rudden, on the other hand hasn`t kicked a ball for us for ages. Let`s not nit pick, neither of them were going to last the game at the pace set by Celtic and the boss did what he thought best in the circumstances. He could have used the resources available in different combinations but had to work with the players at his disposal. Whether any other combination would have worked better is open to conjecture. We were always going to be up against it today. My pre match thoughts were 0-3 but we got 1-3 and the team gave their all. Let`s stop moaning and give the guys a well earned break. Nobody else has.
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Sat 23 May 21:36
Quote:
Raymie the Legend, Sat 23 May 21:25
Quote:
PARrot, Sat 23 May 21:05
Quote:
DBA, Sat 23 May 20:21
If you have to make 3 changes at half time, you`ve got it wrong. Lennon has done wonders with us, but he got the starting line-up wrong today.
Or it was tactical and nearly worked.
Nope, I think he got it wrong. I’ve elaborated on that on another thread.
Agreed Raymie, he 100% got it wrong today, but he also shouldn’t be lambasted for it, as we were up against it as it stands (not saying you were btw!)
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Sat 23 May 21:46
Quote:
Dave_1885, Sat 23 May 21:36
Quote:
Raymie the Legend, Sat 23 May 21:25
Quote:
PARrot, Sat 23 May 21:05
Quote:
DBA, Sat 23 May 20:21
If you have to make 3 changes at half time, you`ve got it wrong. Lennon has done wonders with us, but he got the starting line-up wrong today.
Or it was tactical and nearly worked.
Nope, I think he got it wrong. I’ve elaborated on that on another thread.
Agreed Raymie, he 100% got it wrong today, but he also shouldn’t be lambasted for it, as we were up against it as it stands (not saying you were btw!)
Agreed. He changed things at half time and we were very competitive.
Managers will always question themselves when it doesn’t work out.
It happens. You have a plan and sometimes it doesn’t work.
I would have made changes earlier rather than waiting until half time, even just positional ones.
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
Post Edited (Sat 23 May 21:47)
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Topic Originator: thebear
Date: Sat 23 May 21:47
Don`t think it was wrong, he deliberately r lately kept big guns to later.
Remember final is not one horse race the opposition have tactics as well
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Topic Originator: GJS93
Date: Sat 23 May 21:49
"I would have made changes earlier rather than waiting until half time, even just positional ones."
he did make positional changes in the first half.
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Sat 23 May 21:52
What were they?
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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Topic Originator: Indiapar1
Date: Sat 23 May 22:11
Quote:
Raymie the Legend, Sat 23 May 21:46
Quote:
Dave_1885, Sat 23 May 21:36
Quote:
Raymie the Legend, Sat 23 May 21:25
Quote:
PARrot, Sat 23 May 21:05
Quote:
DBA, Sat 23 May 20:21
If you have to make 3 changes at half time, you`ve got it wrong. Lennon has done wonders with us, but he got the starting line-up wrong today.
Or it was tactical and nearly worked.
Nope, I think he got it wrong. I’ve elaborated on that on another thread.
Agreed Raymie, he 100% got it wrong today, but he also shouldn’t be lambasted for it, as we were up against it as it stands (not saying you were btw!)
Agreed. He changed things at half time and we were very competitive.
Managers will always question themselves when it doesn’t work out.
It happens. You have a plan and sometimes it doesn’t work.
I would have made changes earlier rather than waiting until half time, even just positional ones.
We felt that we should have changed it after about 25 minutes as we were under the cosh a bit and weren`t imposing ourselves enough. The half time substitutions were needed, but we felt A Todd wasnt having alot of success and should have been changed out. No surprise that Cooper got into the position for the goal. We gave them too much respect. We struggled wih Celtics movement and work rate in the final third. Still no doubt NL is looking past this game into next year. Its been an exercise in showing the players what it takes to be successful.and givem them a target to aim for next year amd reflect on what they need to do to get there. Its about how badly you want it.
G Wardrope
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Topic Originator: NikNakPar
Date: Sat 23 May 22:15
Quote:
Raymie the Legend, Sat 23 May 21:52
What were they?
Is also like to see these pointed out. I’ve went about it the wrong way on other threads but it’s true. Needed changing long before it was
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Topic Originator: Stichman
Date: Sat 23 May 22:53
Lennon got it completely wrong with the team selection, there`s surely no doubt about that.
Kane is so important to everything we do going forward... he holds it up, runs the channels, plays wee flicks in for other players... we looked absolutely toothless without him.
Abdulai has played in midfield 2 or 3 times for us, whilst Amade has been consistently class, including a couple of games ago where we absolutely ran the show for us in the first leg against Thistle. It was a huge gamble today to do what he did, and it didn`t pay off at all.
I get trying to keep it tight in the first half, but if we`d just tried to play our game - the same game that saw us beat 3 premier league teams on the way here - we would have been so much better off. Second half we actually carried a threat. Celtic are dreadful but we made them look class in the first half.
I really like Lennon and he`s been great for us, but I don`t think you can argue that he got it completely wrong today, and it would be nice if he fronted up and said that.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 23 May 23:08
I don`t like second-guessing managers, mainly because they are privy to a lot more information about the players than we are and that could influence selection, but I`m surprised our game plan didn`t include having our most experienced and influential player on the field from the start. I think it`s difficult though when you`re up against a team which had superior players to ours all over the pitch. That`s always the problem playing Celtic. If you look at the overall stats we actually matched them pretty well over 90 minutes but they were much more clinical at decisive moments.
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Topic Originator: USMac
Date: Sun 24 May 00:23
On the train to the game today, I was thinking that, with Rudden back, Lennie might look to bring Kane on at HT. But then Rudden has to start. Otherwise, there is no outlet.
I also would have liked to have seen A Tod as a 10 rather than wide left, where he didn’t impact the game.
But it was a memorable season, and the manager has been excellent.
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Topic Originator: LazyBW
Date: Sun 24 May 00:53
Even the best managers get it wrong—Pep in the Champions League final against Chelsea springs to mind. I feel Lennon tinkered and overthought the personnel today. He claimed we started well, but I’m not convinced; the early Morrison chance just masked the sheer pressure we were under from the off.
To Lennon`s credit, he got a response in the second half, which I felt we probably shaded. But for a second-tier side to win a cup, the performance needs to be flawless and tinged with luck. Our first 45 minutes completely ruled that out.
I`m still proud of the account we gave of ourselves, but I`m left with a few "ifs, buts, and maybes" had we prioritised a different starting eleven.
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Topic Originator: Andrew283
Date: Sun 24 May 00:56
Quote:
LazyBW, Sun 24 May 00:53
Even the best managers get it wrong—Pep in the Champions League final against Chelsea springs to mind. I feel Lennon tinkered and overthought the personnel today. He claimed we started well, but I’m not convinced; the early Morrison chance just masked the sheer pressure we were under from the off.
To Lennon`s credit, he got a response in the second half, which I felt we probably shaded. But for a second-tier side to win a cup, the performance needs to be flawless and tinged with luck. Our first 45 minutes completely ruled that out.
I`m still proud of the account we gave of ourselves, but I`m left with a few "ifs, buts, and maybes" had we prioritised a different starting eleven.
I`d also say we are inexperienced against a team of that quality. We play best against teams that attack us, but Celtic were so good with simple one touch passes we just couldn`t get close.
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Topic Originator: adj27
Date: Sun 24 May 05:50
Hindsight’s a wonderful thing - I’m not sure the formation in the first half was such a problem, it was the personnel I couldn’t understand. If he wanted to mark MacGregor then surely Hamilton was the man for this and I was very surprised at Amade not starting - I’d have had these 2 in for Abdulai and Oakley-Booth - possibly Abdulai in at the back although truthfully I was pleased to see Tod playing. Although Celtic had 80% possession they didn’t actually create much - an error from Tod and keeper caught out at the second - on a good day it could have been level at half time and Lennon’s a tactical genius. He’s surprised me on a number of occasions with his formations and often proved me wrong.
I just hope we have a real go at teams next season - can’t wait for the new season to start (although my wife doesn’t agree).
Andy
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Topic Originator: BigTpar1986
Date: Sun 24 May 07:29
I imagine there’s plenty sore heads ( and hopefully red faces ) in the .net community today. Something that can be forgiven due to the occasion and emotion the day carried.
The team selection, albeit not fit for the execution of the plan, wasn’t surprising on Lennon’s form for picking starting 11s.
He’s heavily opted for Abdulai in recent weeks in the CDM role over Amade and Hamilton when he felt height and physicality were paramount.
TOB, who I assume as much as I hope, we should have seen for the last time. Again, Lennon has had belief in him where the terraces haven’t. So an almost defensive minding attacking role yesterday would make sense going on the assumed tactics.
John Todd is great prospect but was heavily scape goated against Partick by an experienced front line before being moved to CB where he looked comfortable. That would have been in mind when he was slotted in yesterday.
The only, and very important differences yesterday were we were not only against the premiership champs, but a team made up of first team Internationalists and guys on the fringe of that!
That selection would have probably managed to see out the game plan of 0-0 first half against any championship team. Maybe wouldn’t be pretty but I think they could. But, like the final it’s self it was a bridge too far for some. A few who are also looking to move up ranks/teams.
As gutted as I am, Lennons approach and morals towards picking a starting 11 haven’t changed all season. For that reason alone, I accept yesterday and look forward to what what the close season will bring.
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Topic Originator: SeasonedPar
Date: Sun 24 May 08:14
Isn’t hindsight wonderful?
The manager picked his team, they would rehearse tactics, but there’s never any guarantee they’ll work.
That’s football. We froze first half, much improved second against a very experienced and physical team 16 places above us. As BigT says, maybe the plan was to survive the first half, then make those changes anyway.
A long season, one that will stay in the memory for a long long time, and much to look forward. I’m proud of every one of those guys, and our amazing fans.
COYP!!
Post Edited (Sun 24 May 08:28)
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Topic Originator: Berkey
Date: Sun 24 May 08:15
Big physical team and we went with 3 lightweights up front and played long balls. 2 of the front 3 don’t even compete for the ball and just jog about.
If Lenny thought it was worth the gamble he was the only one. To me it wasn’t a gamble, a gamble has a chance of paying off.
Still thank god for the 2nd half where they eased up and we looked like a football team.
The post below replying to me is by one of .nets finest champions of mediocrity!
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Topic Originator: Indiapar1
Date: Sun 24 May 08:17
No doubt NL thought the team selection was the right one. I thought that after the first 25 minutes it wasbgoing wrong and after going down one goal it was time to change it. Celtic made the first galf look like a training session at times. Everyone gets things wrong, we are all guilty of that. It was changed at half time, and that may well have been the game plan. The Celtic movement and work rate up front was very good and it won them the game at the end of the day. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but perhaps we would have made more of a game of it from the start by playing our more experienced players. Realistically the game was over at half time. Its always a question of do you play the younger players or not, but if you look past this game, they have gained valuable experience, and been exposed to what it takes to compete at the top of the Premiership.
I think NL and the management team have worked wonders this season and there has been big improvements in the players, some of whom he didnt sign. Its been a successful season. Some players will naturally move on but the core of the side is good and hopefully we can make incremental improvements and make a push for the title next season.
G Wardrope
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Topic Originator: SeasonedPar
Date: Sun 24 May 08:26
Quote:
Berkey, Sun 24 May 08:15
Big physical team and we went with 3 lightweights up front and played long balls. 2 of the front 3 don’t even compete for the ball and just jog about.
If Lenny thought it was worth the gamble he was the only one. To me it wasn’t a gamble, a gamble has a chance of paying off.
Still thank god for the 2nd half where they eased up and we looked like a football team.
You clearly don’t understand football.
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Topic Originator: Bamba-Daft
Date: Sun 24 May 08:30
Quote:
SeasonedPar, Sun 24 May 08:26
Quote:
Berkey, Sun 24 May 08:15
Big physical team and we went with 3 lightweights up front and played long balls. 2 of the front 3 don’t even compete for the ball and just jog about.
If Lenny thought it was worth the gamble he was the only one. To me it wasn’t a gamble, a gamble has a chance of paying off.
Still thank god for the 2nd half where they eased up and we looked like a football team.
You clearly don’t understand football.
Struggling to see what is wrong with what berkey said. He’s 100% spot on.
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Topic Originator: kelty_par
Date: Sun 24 May 08:35
Pre-match the Celtic fans were saying that their defence - Trusty in particular - don`t like playing against physical strikers who are going to get in their faces. Now, I`m not expert, but doesn`t that sound like a job for Chris Kane? We should have been asking him to empty the tank for 45 minutes, an hour and then bring Rudden on. We couldn`t get out at all in the first half as every clearance we made juat went to the head of one of their centre backs. We saw in the second half that Kane and Rudden (and Kearney, who had really come onto a game in recent weeks) were winning fouls and getting us up the park. I think there is a place for an Oakley-Boothe, but that it when you want to slow things down, hold onto a lead and calm things down near the end of a game. I`m not even sure where he was meant to be playing, as sometimes he was quite far forward like as a false nine or something. I guess Lennon will counter by saying that had we scored in the first 10 to 15 minutes of the second half when we were dominant then they`d have been a bit wobbly and thinking about when they lost a 2 goal lead in the semi final but I still think we should have just payed our best players in their best positions! But what do I know?
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Topic Originator: neilholland999
Date: Sun 24 May 08:41
Nothing wrong with Berkey`s comments above. It was plain to see that our forward line in the first half were completely ineffective (except Morrison`s half chance) against a fairly stong and aggressive Celtic defence.
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Topic Originator: Andrew283
Date: Sun 24 May 10:46
Quote:
SeasonedPar, Sun 24 May 08:26
Quote:
Berkey, Sun 24 May 08:15
Big physical team and we went with 3 lightweights up front and played long balls. 2 of the front 3 don’t even compete for the ball and just jog about.
If Lenny thought it was worth the gamble he was the only one. To me it wasn’t a gamble, a gamble has a chance of paying off.
Still thank god for the 2nd half where they eased up and we looked like a football team.
You clearly don’t understand football.
Berkey has another new hater 😂 Guy said nothing wrong
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Topic Originator: Par
Date: Sun 24 May 10:57
Not sure why Neil Lennon never came across to the fans at the end, although he did praise them in the post match interviews.
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Topic Originator: SeasonedPar
Date: Sun 24 May 10:59
Quote:
SeasonedPar, Sun 24 May 08:14
Isn’t hindsight wonderful?
The manager picked his team, they would rehearse tactics, but there’s never any guarantee they’ll work.
That’s football. We froze first half, much improved second against a very experienced and physical team 16 places above us. As BigT says, maybe the plan was to survive the first half, then make those changes anyway.
A long season, one that will stay in the memory for a long long time, and much to look forward. I’m proud of every one of those guys, and our amazing fans.
COYP!!
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sun 24 May 10:59
I didn`t think Celtic `eased up` in the second half and I haven`t heard or seen anyone else suggest they did. The consensus is that we were more competitive because of the changes NL made at half-time.
But who knows what would have happened if we`d started with that selection? Celtic have so many quick, skilful players they could still have picked us apart on the break as they did in the second half. They may not be a great side by Celtic standards but they`re a lot better than Hibs, Aberdeen or Falkirk.
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Sun 24 May 11:00
"Big physical team"
Man mountain McGregor right enough......
You know there are other ways to play football than just an exact match up like for like?
Probably why Lennon is a successful football player and manager and he`s on here spouting his nonsense throughout games and afterwards.....only when we lose mind......which is why his contributions have been somewhat limited the last few months thank God.
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: SeasonedPar
Date: Sun 24 May 11:02
Lennon has more experience than the rest of us put together and was clearly frustrated at how passive we were. Read his post match comments?
Show some respect rather than fire in criticism.
Post Edited (Sun 24 May 11:10)
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Sun 24 May 11:05
Quote:
Par, Sun 24 May 10:57
Not sure why Neil Lennon never came across to the fans at the end, although he did praise them in the post match interviews.
My guess would be modesty - his belief would be it was the players that got us there so the players should get the crowds adulation. Again, that would just be my theory on it.
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Topic Originator: Bamba-Daft
Date: Sun 24 May 11:13
Quote:
Par, Sun 24 May 10:57
Not sure why Neil Lennon never came across to the fans at the end, although he did praise them in the post match interviews.
Was too busy clamouring for attention from the other end with that ridiculous raising of O’Neills hand.
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Topic Originator: Indiapar1
Date: Sun 24 May 11:23
NL obviously has great respect for Martin O Neil. Nothing wrong with that in my view. I think NL left it for the players to go to the crowd rather than himself. I thought the opposite that it was a good gesture so not to steal the attention himself.
G Wardrope
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Topic Originator: Bamba-Daft
Date: Sun 24 May 11:28
Plenty managers have respect for eachother, they mention it in the media after the game. They don’t raise the fist in the direction of the away end who have just pumped you in a cup final.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sun 24 May 11:37
Some fans love to be offended. I read nothing into either incident.
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Sun 24 May 11:50
Quote:
Bamba-Daft, Sun 24 May 11:28
Plenty managers have respect for eachother, they mention it in the media after the game. They don’t raise the fist in the direction of the away end who have just pumped you in a cup final.
3-1 isn’t a pumping when you consider the gulf in resources of the clubs….
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Topic Originator: Bamba-Daft
Date: Sun 24 May 12:23
Quote:
Dave_1885, Sun 24 May 11:50
Quote:
Bamba-Daft, Sun 24 May 11:28
Plenty managers have respect for eachother, they mention it in the media after the game. They don’t raise the fist in the direction of the away end who have just pumped you in a cup final.
3-1 isn’t a pumping when you consider the gulf in resources of the clubs….
You know what I mean, other than that 15 minute spell in the second half it was an absolute stroll, whilst we done well to keep the scoreline respectable. I’m in no way criticising the team, I thought we done ok considering.
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