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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Mon 3 Aug 12:19
Rotherham are set to sign Kieron Ngwenya and Ewan Otoo, writes Scott Burns.
The English League Two outfit are set to snap up the former Dunfermline Athletic defenders.
The Millers have beaten off English League One and League Two sides to land Ngwenya.
The central defender, 23, has agreed a two-year deal.
The former Aberdeen player was capped by Trinidad and Tobago over the summer.
Otoo, who came through the ranks at Celtic, has been on trial at Rotherham.
The 23-year old has impressed enough for Alex Bruce to want to have him a deal.
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Mon 3 Aug 12:23
That’s pretty disappointing from a football point of view. The 4th tier of English football !
I know they are good pals off the pitch, so will allow them to settle in easier.
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
Post Edited (Mon 03 Aug 12:24)
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Mon 3 Aug 12:37
I think it`s a higher standard than our Championship, Raymie, and I bet it pays better wages!
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Mon 3 Aug 12:44
A club that have been on a decline for a while.
I`m sure they hope they can be part of a recovery.
Shame they have moved there as I don`t like that team!
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Topic Originator: Stanza
Date: Mon 3 Aug 12:45
Quote:
Raymie the Legend, Mon 3 Aug 12:23
That’s pretty disappointing from a football point of view. The 4th tier of English football !
I know they are good pals off the pitch, so will allow them to settle in easier.
What might also help them settle in could be their salaries! According to AI, which may or may not be accurate, most senior Rotherham players earn at least £4k/week, with even the academy graduates earning £1.5k/week.
Rotherham`s annual wage bill seems to be well over £5m. Whether that is sustainable in League Two is of course another question. The club lost £4.65m last year, and owes the owner`s firm over £9m.
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Topic Originator: Johanisk
Date: Mon 3 Aug 16:56
Good luck boys, let`s hope it`s a stepping stone to bigger, brighter things!
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Topic Originator: evo!
Date: Mon 3 Aug 21:35
Rotherham play WBA in cup on sat, so both could be up against Barney right away
BEAST!
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Topic Originator: Buster_Brown
Date: Mon 3 Aug 22:20
Quote:
wee eck, Mon 3 Aug 12:37
I think it`s a higher standard than our Championship, Raymie, and I bet it pays better wages!
It’s honestly not a higher standard, I promise you that!
Loving You, Is In My DNA
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Topic Originator: Bandy
Date: Mon 3 Aug 22:59
Quote:
Buster_Brown, Mon 3 Aug 22:20
Quote:
wee eck, Mon 3 Aug 12:37
I think it`s a higher standard than our Championship, Raymie, and I bet it pays better wages!
It’s honestly not a higher standard, I promise you that!
I go to Barnet 10-15 times a season. The standard is about the same.
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Topic Originator: Par-timer
Date: Mon 3 Aug 23:08
Kieran probably deserved a chance at League One given his performances since December, particularly against Premiership teams, but will hopefully get there with the Millers.
Ewan was our standout player in the first year back in the Championship and although his move down south didn’t happen at that time, he also deserves a chance at that level.
They both gave their all for the Pars and I wish them all the best in League Two.
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Topic Originator: SamRockPar
Date: Tue 4 Aug 00:10
Quote:
Buster_Brown, Mon 3 Aug 22:20
Quote:
wee eck, Mon 3 Aug 12:37
I think it`s a higher standard than our Championship, Raymie, and I bet it pays better wages!
It’s honestly not a higher standard, I promise you that!
It factually is.
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Topic Originator: Athletico
Date: Tue 4 Aug 07:36
Been to a few League 2 games, 90% of the games are no better standard, just generally better paid. Only exception to that is the inevitable few big teams that have found themselves down the leagues.
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Tue 4 Aug 08:08
"Rotherham play WBA in cup on sat, so both could be up against Barney right away"
===
Oh, that`s a fun thought. I`d like to see the highlights of that game.
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Topic Originator: Leamington_sPAR
Date: Tue 4 Aug 15:53
Quote:
OzPar, Tue 4 Aug 08:08
"Rotherham play WBA in cup on sat, so both could be up against Barney right away"
===
Oh, that`s a fun thought. I`d like to see the highlights of that game.
Rotherham have confirmed that both Ngwenya and Otoo have signed.
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Topic Originator: Indiapar1
Date: Tue 4 Aug 19:28
Good for them. I wish them well
G Wardrope
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Tue 4 Aug 20:05
Just watched each player`s first interview at the club. They are both articulate guys and came across well. Nothing bad to say about the Pars.
There seems to be another Scot there - Lenny Agbaire - who Ewan knows from his Celtic days. Although born in Croydon he qualifies for Scotland and has been part of the under 21 squad. Steve McClaren is Head of Football at Rotherham.
Post Edited (Tue 04 Aug 20:05)
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Topic Originator: Bannockburn Par
Date: Wed 5 Aug 07:52
Ngwenga got his big move then 😂. As for Otto, I felt he offered little over the last 18 months. Best of luck to them both.
Post Edited (Wed 05 Aug 22:20)
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Topic Originator: BigTpar1986
Date: Wed 5 Aug 08:07
If the wage structure at Rochdale is what has been mentioned on the thread, then I get it from Ngwenya. Make hay while the sun shines. Fagan walcot has shown that it’s a pool the Scottish premiership will dip into as well, so we might see him north again.
Feels like a slap in the face with the reality of where Scottish football really is in the current financial climate.
It’s easy to buy into the hype after a play off semi final and Scottish cup final but realistically we’re still below the pecking order to clubs like Rochdale and most others in the 4th tier of the English leagues.
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Topic Originator: Bertie Paton
Date: Wed 5 Aug 08:23
It`s Rotherham they signed for, not Rochdale.
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Topic Originator: BigTpar1986
Date: Wed 5 Aug 08:40
Apologies Bert
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Topic Originator: Stanza
Date: Wed 5 Aug 16:51
Rotherham is a very big town, nearly twice the population of Dundee. Support for the club maybe suffers to some extent from the town being next door to Sheffield, but Wednesday, United and Rotherham have all struggled recently.
This is Rotherham`s first time in the fourth tier for 13 years - previously they have been a yo-yo club between the Championship and League One. However, their present stadium is only slightly bigger than EEP, so there is limit to how far they can go - they are heavily dependent on loans from their owner`s company.
Strange fact section - the Chuckle Brothers were/are honorary life presidents of Rotherham United.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Wed 5 Aug 16:57
Stanza, as a Barrow supporter, how would you say the standard in EL2 compares with the SC?
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Wed 5 Aug 19:12
Quote:
Stanza, Wed 5 Aug 16:51
Strange fact section - the Chuckle Brothers were/are honorary life presidents of Rotherham United.
Otoo you, Otoo me
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Topic Originator: Parsdaft21346327964
Date: Wed 5 Aug 20:05
I think for the perfect example for the defender category is fagen Walcott came to us strolled it got record points in the national league then straight to hearts so would probably say the Scottish championship is probably lower end of league 2 to national league
Got to think even if they tell you different Celtic and rangers would struggle in the premier league so you’d say the rest of the premiership would fill in championship to league 1 level then the championship fill from league 2 down
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Wed 5 Aug 20:07
Quote:
Bannockburn Par, Wed 5 Aug 07:52
Ngwenga got his big move then 😂. As for Otto, complete waste of a wage and won’t be missed.
What a horrible phrase "a waste of a wage" is. I don`t see the need for it. Why not just say you don`t rate a player?
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: DAPAR
Date: Wed 5 Aug 20:24
Totally agree GG. Expressions like that, "wage thief" etc are absolutely uncalled for. Language is important and denigrating anyone to that extent is abusive.
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Topic Originator: Stanza
Date: Wed 5 Aug 20:48
Quote:
wee eck, Wed 5 Aug 16:57
Stanza, as a Barrow supporter, how would you say the standard in EL2 compares with the SC?
Sadly, Barrow were relegated last season, and now play in the National League. From 1972 until 2020 they played in the 5th or even 6th Tier, so they are probably back where they belong.
I only watch Barrow in the flesh a couple of times in a season, plus the TV highlights, so I don`t really feel qualified to answer your question, even if I were a better judge of football than I am. I`ve seen Barrow play well and abysmally! Also, in a 24-team league there can be a big gap in quality between top and bottom.
Of ex-Pars that I`ve seen play for clubs in both leagues:
Jordan White, having scored quite freely for Livingston in the Scottish Championship and Premiership, struggled to find the net with both Wrexham and Barrow in the Conference League (Tier 5). He came back to Scotland and once again was reasonably successful at Inverness and Ross County.
Tom Beadling (born in Barrow) had very similar careers at Dunfermline and Barrow: DAFC 2 seasons, 51 appearances, 4 goals
Barrow 2 seasons, 41 appearances, 2 goals.
At both clubs his seasons were disrupted by injury. He`s now with Arbroath in the Scottish Championship.
Malachi Fagan-Walcott has come from last season`s National League champions York City to the Scottish Premiership at Hearts, and doesn`t seem out of place at all.
Based on that (very unsafe statistically, I know!) there isn`t much to choose between the quality of the Scottish Championship and (perhaps the lower end of) England`s League Two.
But football is a matter of opinion. I don`t think Ngwenya and Otoo will be out of their depth at Rotherham, but they certainly won`t stroll it either.
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Topic Originator: Buster_Brown
Date: Wed 5 Aug 21:21
Quote:
Bandy, Mon 3 Aug 22:59
Quote:
Buster_Brown, Mon 3 Aug 22:20
Quote:
wee eck, Mon 3 Aug 12:37
I think it`s a higher standard than our Championship, Raymie, and I bet it pays better wages!
It’s honestly not a higher standard, I promise you that!
I go to Barnet 10-15 times a season. The standard is about the same.
Yeah, I would agree with this 👍🏻
Quote:
SamRockPar, Tue 4 Aug 00:10
Quote:
Buster_Brown, Mon 3 Aug 22:20
Quote:
wee eck, Mon 3 Aug 12:37
I think it`s a higher standard than our Championship, Raymie, and I bet it pays better wages!
It’s honestly not a higher standard, I promise you that!
It factually is.
Not sure how it FACTUALLY is….but I can’t be bothered arguing.
Loving You, Is In My DNA
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Wed 5 Aug 21:41
Thanks for that, Stanza.
I must say I think the old adage `you get what you pay for` probably applies in football as it does in other walks of life. EL2 must have a better TV deal than we do and that must be reflected in the players` wages. But if SC players were of similar standard wouldn`t owners of EL2 clubs replace their players with Scots and just pay them a wee bit more than they we do, to tempt them south? When Livi were surviving regularly in our Premiership they used to recruit quite a lot from the lower English Leagues, including the National League. Myles Welch-Hayes looked quite comfortable playing for us when on loan from Livi. I think he`s now in the National League South.
As you say, though, EL2 is a much bigger League and it may be that the top half is better than our Championship whilst the lower half is of a similar standard. It wiĺl be interesting to see how Ngwenya and Otoo fare. Lewis McCann took a wee while to settle at Fleetwood and was just beginning to (as a wing back I think!) when injury struck.
Post Edited (Wed 05 Aug 21:42)
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 5 Aug 22:37
Quote:
Parsdaft21346327964, Wed 5 Aug 20:05
I think for the perfect example for the defender category is fagen Walcott came to us strolled it got record points in the national league then straight to hearts so would probably say the Scottish championship is probably lower end of league 2 to national league
Got to think even if they tell you different Celtic and rangers would struggle in the premier league so you’d say the rest of the premiership would fill in championship to league 1 level then the championship fill from league 2 down
The Hearts fans don`t seem to think he`s up to much and consider him a failed signing already. Hopefully not but could be an opportunity to bring him back on loan maybe.
I`d say the leagues are different in terms of style of play and obviously the money behind them. You can`t really compare. If the dirty duo went to England they would make far more than they make currently and Celtic in particular would be coining it in due to Irish love-in across the world. I`d argue the Glasgow Goons have ruined Scottish football but no more than the effect of the mega rich clubs in England have for their leagues.
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Topic Originator: CrossPar
Date: Thu 6 Aug 09:07
Quote from Kieran re his signing for Rotherham:- "I think the idea of being a part of a team that could potentially climb back up the leagues again was an amazing attraction to me. So, hopefully we can achieve that."
Did he not think he could climb up to the Premier league with Dunfermline?
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Topic Originator: Indiapar1
Date: Thu 6 Aug 09:14
Quote:
CrossPar, Thu 6 Aug 09:07
Quote from Kieran re his signing for Rotherham:- "I think the idea of being a part of a team that could potentially climb back up the leagues again was an amazing attraction to me. So, hopefully we can achieve that."
Did he not think he could climb up to the Premier league with Dunfermline?
I suppose you are going to make that kind of comment with any team you join. Not sure is a great move for either of them, but I wish them well.
G Wardrope
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 6 Aug 10:51
Presumably Ngwenya didn`t get an offer after his trial at Wigan and this may have been Otoo`s only offer but you only really need one.
Best of luck to them as it`s obviously fiercely competitive down there. It`s going to be interesting following the fortunes of Edwards (is he fit yet?), McCann (also fitness issues), JCM, Ngwenya and Otoo this sesson.
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Topic Originator: Milos Drizzle
Date: Thu 6 Aug 17:29
I suspect Ngwenya was aiming for a higher level, but doubling (probably) his income will be a sweetener for sure. On the footballing front, it’s a gamble, more so than remaining a big fish in the small Dunfermline pond.
This is my signature
Post Edited (Thu 06 Aug 17:29)
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Topic Originator: Rusty Shackleford
Date: Thu 6 Aug 18:41
Quote:
red-star-par, Wed 5 Aug 19:12
Quote:
Stanza, Wed 5 Aug 16:51
Strange fact section - the Chuckle Brothers were/are honorary life presidents of Rotherham United.
Otoo you, Otoo me
This deserved better.
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Topic Originator: Hoolie
Date: Thu 6 Aug 19:34
Good luck to both of them and hope they progress.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 8 Aug 20:35
Ngwenya was an unused sub today as Rotherham lost 4-1 at home to WBA. Otoo wasn`t in the squad. Barney Stewart came on as a late sub for West Brom when it was 4-0.
JCM was an unused sub as Wigan lost on pens at Barnsley.
Lewis McCann played the full 90 minutes as Fleetwood beat Chesterfield 1-0.
No sign of Josh Edwards in Charlton`s squad as they won 3-1 at Cheltenham. I wonder if he`s still injured?
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Topic Originator: GJS93
Date: Sat 8 Aug 20:38
Otoo started the game at left back
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 8 Aug 20:44
So he did! Apologies!
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Topic Originator: Kozmano1
Date: Sat 8 Aug 21:33
I got speaking to a couple of Wigan fans on the train back to Edinburgh who were there to see Robertson play. They reckoned Mullen will be 4th or 5th choice in the pecking order at Wigan to start every week.
He must have got a decent pay rise, as it doesn’t seem a move that will help him develop into a better player?
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sun 9 Aug 01:24
Quote:
Kozmano1, Sat 8 Aug 21:33
I got speaking to a couple of Wigan fans on the train back to Edinburgh who were there to see Robertson play. They reckoned Mullen will be 4th or 5th choice in the pecking order at Wigan to start every week.
He must have got a decent pay rise, as it doesn’t seem a move that will help him develop into a better player?
If that’s the case he’s Fk’d it. I get it that players need to make money but if he’s choosing to sit on the bench at Wigan for money, he’ll never make it. Surely you’ve got to think he’s got a route for progression there cos if he’d had another good season with us he’d have had much better offers than 4th/5th choice at Wigan on the cards
COYP
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 9 Aug 09:54
This is where it`s disappointing in terms of future Scotland squads. Young players can probably double their pay to bench warm, which is fine in terms of paying the mortgage, but not get the much needed game time to really progress.
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Topic Originator: Jealous Furniture
Date: Sun 9 Aug 10:04
He`ll get his chance, he just has to take it when he does.
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Sun 9 Aug 18:25
Quote:
Jealous Furniture, Sun 9 Aug 10:04
He`ll get his chance, he just has to take it when he does.
Aye, that`s it, if he is that good anyway, he`s not gonna be 5th choice there for long, he`ll force his way in there
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Topic Originator: Buster_Brown
Date: Mon 10 Aug 13:20
My English team is West Brom (it’s my Dad’s team really as that’s where he is from) and I sat and watched the full match recording yesterday. Rotherham look like a club in real trouble on and off the pitch.
The stands were empty, in fact there were just over 2,000 baggies there and that was more than Rotherham and on the pitch they looked a shambles. Not sure what has happened at the club but it could be a long year for Ngwenya & Otoo.
Loving You, Is In My DNA
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