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Topic Originator: MikeyLeonard
Date: Thu 6 Aug 20:25
Or should I say, lack of ?
Eight Scottish players playing in Europe tonight across four teams. . .eight, out of forty-four players.
Its not as if these teams do well with the foreign players in their teams. Second rate foreign players doing young Scots players out of a starting place IMO.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 6 Aug 20:49
Hearts getting pumped again.
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Topic Originator: pars4life1
Date: Thu 6 Aug 20:49
Hearts and Motherwell have done particularly well with their sides over the past few years and hibs can`t exactly complain either.
The managers are rightly trying to put together the best sides they can if the young Scots aren`t good enough to force out the supposed 2nd rate foreign players then the managers are right to play the foreign player.
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Topic Originator: Aaron Labonte
Date: Thu 6 Aug 21:10
Just goes to show how right wing our game still is up here with this sort of attitude.
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Topic Originator: stevemac
Date: Thu 6 Aug 21:18
....and yet here we are outwith the main league signing players from Uganda,Ghana,Eire,,England etc and "celebrating" not "signing the same players from the merry go round".đ
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Topic Originator: MikeyLeonard
Date: Thu 6 Aug 21:20
My point is, despite the foreign players being brought in by these clubs, it doesn`t make them any better when playing in Europe.
Don`t play this right wing pihs.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 6 Aug 21:28
John Collins is of the opinion that there should be a quota set for the number of foreign players Scottish clubs can sign. He says that`s what happens in Norway and could explain why they performed well at the World Cup.
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Topic Originator: Steviethepar2
Date: Thu 6 Aug 21:39
Quote:
wee eck, Thu 6 Aug 21:28
John Collins is of the opinion that there should be a quota set for the number of foreign players Scottish clubs can sign. He says that`s what happens in Norway and could explain why they performed well at the World Cup.
Was listening to guys on bbc Scotland on Saturday talking about that reminding us of days when we had 5 subs and at least 2 had to be under 21 - just after that had Mortonâs team sheet and they had 15 and 16 year olds on the bench
Also fact no reserve league for young players to get experience playing alongside senior players
EPL has always had a rule 8 of 25 squad have to be home grown players though not seen how that has benefitted England
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Thu 6 Aug 21:53
A crushing defeat for two Scottish teams
Benfica 6-1 Hearts
Jagielliona 2-1 Rangers
However âŠ.
Hibs 2-1 Shkendija
âBuffyâs Buns are the finest in Fifeâ, J. Spence 2019â
Post Edited (Thu 06 Aug 21:57)
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Topic Originator: SamRockPar
Date: Thu 6 Aug 22:11
Glad this xenophobic nonsense has been called out tbh.
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Topic Originator: P
Date: Thu 6 Aug 22:14
Quote:
Steviethepar2, Thu 6 Aug 21:39
EPL has always had a rule 8 of 25 squad have to be home grown players though not seen how that has benefitted England
England that were 3rd at the World Cup last month or evenâŠ.
- Senior team: World Cup semi-final (2018), Euro runners-up (2020 and 2024)
- Under-21s: European champions (2023 and 2025)
- Under-20s: World champions (2017)
- Under-19s: European champions (2017 and 2022)
âŠ..yeah theyâre game is in total disarray. Some better management and a little luck they could easily have had a trophy or two (thank god thatâs not happened).
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 6 Aug 22:41
In Norway clubs are only allowed a maximum of 9 foreign players in their squads. This encourages coaches to blood younger players. Part of Collins` argument is that promising young players would be less likely to move to England, where they tend to `disappear`, if they thought they had a good chance of first-team football up here.
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Topic Originator: MikeyLeonard
Date: Thu 6 Aug 22:43
How xenophobic of them Eck.
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Topic Originator: Leamington_sPAR
Date: Thu 6 Aug 22:55
If you consider that only 34 Scots played in the starting teams for the first fixtures of the SPFL Premier. One team didnât have any, might come as a surprise that the team was Motherwell.
A minimum number of home grown players might not be an idea to give them some pathway in their careers.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 6 Aug 23:00
We have laws preventing poorly paid foreign workers, like care staff or hospitality staff, coming here but there aren`t the same restrictions on football players. That could change if the powers-that-be thought our football could benefit. There could still be exceptions for established international stars.
Post Edited (Thu 06 Aug 23:02)
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Fri 7 Aug 06:03
Quote:
SamRockPar, Thu 6 Aug 22:11
Glad this xenophobic nonsense has been called out tbh.
I`m pretty certain Mikey Leonard doesn`t have a xenophobic/right wing agenda, SamRock. By pointing out that bringing in players from overseas reduces the chances of first team football for Scottish born youngsters, it`s quite a quantum leap to conclude that he has a hatred of foreigners.
As has been pointed out above, there are examples of other countries that limit the number of foreign-born players a club can field,or at least a minimum number of homegrown players it must include in its match day squad. If these restrictions included Scots born players from minority ethnic backgrounds being considered as foreigners, then I would be truly worried.....
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: Dandy Warhol
Date: Fri 7 Aug 06:56
Quote:
MikeyLeonard, Thu 6 Aug 21:20
My point is, despite the foreign players being brought in by these clubs, it doesn`t make them any better when playing in Europe.
Don`t play this right wing pihs.
Everyone except black trans women are far right now.
I don`t wanna go down like disco.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Fri 7 Aug 07:30
Quote:
pars4life1, Thu 6 Aug 20:49
Hearts and Motherwell have done particularly well with their sides over the past few years and hibs can`t exactly complain either.
The managers are rightly trying to put together the best sides they can if the young Scots aren`t good enough to force out the supposed 2nd rate foreign players then the managers are right to play the foreign player.
It`s a bit simplistic to say that if young Scots are good enough, they`ll force their way into the team at the expense of the foreign players in the squad. The Scottish lads need to have the opportunity to show they`re good enough. If a club has a large number of foreign players on its books, it follows that there will be fewer opportunities for homegrown players to break into the team in those positions already held down by foreign players.
e.g. If the Pars hadn`t signed Aston Oxborough, there would be a better chance of Thomas Margetts breaking into the first team. (Or Billy Terrell and Musa Dugabi, for that matter.)
In some cases, the foreign players are a little bit older, more experienced and physically stronger than younger Scottish lads and managers will understandably want to pick the team that has the best chance of winning a game.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: Aaron Labonte
Date: Fri 7 Aug 07:52
We wouldn`t have signed Ox if those keepers were good enough.
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Topic Originator: Parsfangaz
Date: Fri 7 Aug 08:24
Quote:
MikeyLeonard, Thu 6 Aug 21:20
My point is, despite the foreign players being brought in by these clubs, it doesn`t make them any better when playing in Europe.
Don`t play this right wing pihs.
How can you say it doesnât make them any better ?
If they had 11 Scots in their line ups they may get pumped by even more.
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Topic Originator: Bucuresti Par
Date: Fri 7 Aug 08:29
I understand it with freedom of movement, all the data and scouting these days but it isn`t a great sign for any league if there are few local players. I include the EPL in that, very few of those teams have any kind of identity, they are just massive money generating machines.
Norway is certainly an example to look at. Kids encouraged to play all sports, little to no emphasis on competition until they are much older. The quotas don`t seem to be doing any of their club sides harm in Europe either. Even some of the other Scandinavian sides, some much smaller than Dunfermline are capable of being regularly competitive in Europe. No reason why we, other Scottish teams can`t do a lot more.
Give us a bigger top league, get more kids playing football!!!!!!
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Fri 7 Aug 08:41
Quote:
Aaron Labonte, Fri 7 Aug 07:52
We wouldn`t have signed Ox if those keepers were good enough.
Maybe I didn`t explain myself very well, Aaron. Margetts is only 17. With 3 older, more experienced keepers at the club, he`s not going to get a crack at first team football, so he`s away out on loan. Had even one of those 3 not been at the club, he might have been on the bench for some games and got a chance to play if the goalkeeper in possession was injured during a game.
Before the mid-60s, foreign players were very rare in Scottish football. When the Pars sold Eddie Connachan, Jim Herriot stepped into the first team. When Herriot was sold in turn, a very young Eric Martin from sunny Blairhall was promoted. He performed so well, he followed Connachan and Herriot down to England, and the Pars signed their first foreign keeper, Bent Martin (no relation to Eric.)
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: Sacktheref69
Date: Fri 7 Aug 09:06
Playing devilâs advocate here slightly, but surely we also need to ask: are Scottish players being shunted out in favour of foreign or British players of a similar standard?
Remember the banter that surrounded the âB teamâ project. It was always, âItâs okay, they wonât be able to gain promotion once they win the Championship.â The fact that none of them actually won a league title shows that, overall, the standard of player wasnât really any better than seasoned pros dropping down the divisions. Obviously, there will be one or two exceptions to that, but overall, the project didnât work.
I do like the co-op agreement incentive, though. Seeing Curtis, who could have sat on the bench for Rangers, instead choosing to go to a relegation contender in Kilmarnock and being rewarded with a World Cup spot was brilliant. Quite rightly, it got the attention in the media that the decision deserved. Also earning him a seat on the plane to the World cup.
We now have a chance to completely overhaul the national team pathway, especially now that the old pals act with Gemmill has ended. Iâm genuinely interested to see what it looks like under a semi competent manager.
This is Andy Tod`s world and we are lucky to live in it.
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Fri 7 Aug 09:44
The demise of the reserve leagues has not done our young lads any favours.
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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Topic Originator: Indiapar1
Date: Fri 7 Aug 12:01
I think that the demise of Scottish football in terms of their standing in Europe is down to systemic issues and the lack of purposeful systems. To understand the issue systemically you have to look at it holistically and develop purposeful systems to address it and take action. Its too simplistic to say it is down to foreign players. There are things like how the game is developed at a grass roots level, progression, salaries, investment (not just financial), league structure, etc etc. These are much more difficult to address. You have to start with the recognition that there is a problem before you can seek to address it. Ultimately the game survives due to supporters across all teams and at all levels. Their views seems to be paid lip service to by those who run the game in Scotland I feel.
G Wardrope
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Topic Originator: SamRockPar
Date: Fri 7 Aug 12:51
Mikey could have worded it better in that case GG. It certainly didnt come across very well. I firmly believe if there were better scottish players available then they would be getting game time. The standard of scottish player has plummeted drastically the last few years . You only have to look at our world cup performance to see we are miles off the standard required now.
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Topic Originator: SamRockPar
Date: Fri 7 Aug 12:53
Quote:
Dandy Warhol, Fri 7 Aug 06:56
Quote:
MikeyLeonard, Thu 6 Aug 21:20
My point is, despite the foreign players being brought in by these clubs, it doesn`t make them any better when playing in Europe.
Don`t play this right wing pihs.
Everyone except black trans women are far right now.
What a bizarre post.
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Topic Originator: MikeyLeonard
Date: Fri 7 Aug 15:18
Quote:
SamRockPar, Fri 7 Aug 12:51
Mikey could have worded it better in that case GG. It certainly didnt come across very well. I firmly believe if there were better scottish players available then they would be getting game time. The standard of scottish player has plummeted drastically the last few years . You only have to look at our world cup performance to see we are miles off the standard required now.
Sam, it was worded just the way I wanted.
The issue is with you and the way you read it.
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Topic Originator: d3monstrate
Date: Fri 7 Aug 22:50
Nothing of value will come from it...
The Old Firm will moan about not being competitive enough then something like the best Scottish players must be given to them free of charge to help further Scottish football
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Topic Originator: twin par
Date: Sat 8 Aug 01:25
Ernie walker,tried but failed miserably.His idea of trying to emulate the Dutch,was never going to work,their players had too much natural talent.
Post Edited (Sat 08 Aug 01:28)
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Sat 8 Aug 06:12
Quote:
twin par, Sat 8 Aug 01:25
Ernie walker,tried but failed miserably.His idea of trying to emulate the Dutch,was never going to work,their players had too much natural talent.
I wonder if Ernie is making a comeback to chair the meeting? đ
"Natural talent" is important, but it can only take you so far. It has to be nourished and developed with good coaching. We had plenty of very talented players in the Scottish game in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Why should they have suddenly run out? It`s possible that some potentially talented footballers are not taking up the game, thanks to the modern curse of spending much of their leisure time on modern devices such as mobile phones. It`s also possible that coaching standards are just not good enough and young players themselves don`t have the same hunger and desire to succeed as those from previous generations.
When I was growing up in West Fife, for many lads from mining villages, playing professional football was an attractive alternative to going down the local pit. It`s no coincidence, I don`t think, that many of today`s top players come from relatively poor countries or they`ve been born in Britain, but their parents came from these countries. The desire to escape poverty can be a powerful motivator to work very hard to make the grade.
I`ll go back to Mikey`s OP and say he makes a good point. Every overseas player that joins a Scottish club results in one less place for a Scots born lad with that club. That`s not a racist statement, whichever way you slice it.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: MikeyLeonard
Date: Sun 9 Aug 15:19
21 Scottish players start in todays top flight fixtures out of 88 players.
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Sun 9 Aug 16:41
Michael Stewart showing his Jambo leanings again today by claiming a rugby tackle off the ball is ânever a penaltyâ đ
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Sun 9 Aug 18:03
He played for Hibs too.
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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