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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Sat 31 Aug 19:12
Because now not only do we have Leave supporters believing that Remain supporters want to overturn a referendum, we also have the Remain supporters believing that Leave supporters want to overthrow parliament.
This really can't end well.
However, I think that the political mistake, from Cummings' perspective, is the very real possibility that the anti-no deal mob might now actually be unified.
Ken Clarke and Jeremy Corbyn on the same side - imagine that!
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Sat 31 Aug 23:03
It certainly feels like someone pulls some masterstroke which everybody is worried about but then the other sides respond and you realise things were daft.
So EU now says 31 Oct doesn't need to be the date. Boris is now going to look like a tit. He either extends and breaks his promise of 31 Oct come what may, or he leaves with no deal when the other side have offered substantive discussions.
I think he has painted himself into a corner and, as you say, it won't be long until an awful lot of folk are taking pot shots.
If only Labour didnt have Corbyn.
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Topic Originator: Tenruh
Date: Sun 1 Sep 07:45
Or Scotland the Great architect
Willie Rennie Macintosh
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Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh
Date: Sun 1 Sep 17:38
Cummings is an interesting guy.
I sometimes wonder if he isn't a spy sent by Satan to eff things up a bit.
If so, he appears to be doing an excellent job.
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Topic Originator: desparado
Date: Sun 1 Sep 20:55
How any self respecting Scot can happily sit by and watch this unfolding drama , controlled by a bunch of expensively educated idiots , and be willing to accept this rather than bolt and make the major decisions for ourselves is baffling.
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Sun 8 Sep 12:54
So loads of folk (even me, ffs!) could predict the results of the moves made by Cummings last week, which makes me wonder if there's something else going on? Can he [really be so politically naive?
Ramsay McDonald sat in the top five worst UK PMs for a century then suddenly these two latest clowns come along and usurp him to give the Tories the full top five worst PMs in UK history.
Actually, Ramsay McDonald's Labour party did something similar to what Johnson's Tories are in the process of doing: they completely disowned him as a traitor to their principles and expelled him from the party (what Johnson is doing can't really be described as "conservative" can it?
Mind you, all the most successful Conservatives have actually been pretty radical (Churchill and Thatcher spring to mind) so maybe it's the principles of small-c conservatism that are the problem for the party ;)
"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Thu 12 Sep 20:29
Quote :-Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh
Date: Sun 1 Sep 17:38
Cummings is an interesting guy.
I sometimes wonder if he isn't a spy sent by Satan to eff things up a bit.
If so, he appears to be doing an excellent job.
If not Satan aaaaaaaaaargh maybe Putin ?
After university, Cummings moved to post-Soviet Russia from 1994 to 1997, working on various projects. In one Russian venture, he worked for a group attempting to set up an airline connecting Samara in southern Russia to Vienna; however, the venture fell foul of the KGB, and was abandoned after only one flight.
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Thu 12 Sep 20:33
Didnt know that. Interesting stuff thanks.
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Thu 26 Sep 22:13
Dominic Cummings
He was Michael Goves personal advisor before Boris
The guy must have some magic magnetic personality to be so successful as an advisor but is he successful ?... Gove is still on the periphery of Tory in-obscurity and Boris is determined to self destruct the Tory Party and drag GB along with him When questioned on any subject relevant to the current political climate he does not answer the question but repeats the same mantra over and over we will add 20,000 police and invest in health and NHS .... Oh Jings
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Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey
Date: Fri 27 Sep 07:45
"Boris is determined to self destruct the Tory Party"
Evidence ? Or just more left wing fantasy ?
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 27 Sep 08:47
Yes I wouldn't say he is determined to do it or even desiring to do so but self destructing it most certainly is.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey
Date: Fri 27 Sep 08:56
"Yes I wouldn't say he is determined to do it or even desiring to do so but self destructing it most certainly is."
And yet recent opinion polls would all suggest otherwise. All at the very least showing they would be the largest party in another Hung Parliament (and hopefully with more loyal MPs) and some also suggesting they could win a fairly comfortable majority.
Very reminiscent of the good old days when Mrs Thatcher purged the "wets" and it certainly didn't do her much harm for a good few years.
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Topic Originator: Mario
Date: Fri 27 Sep 09:37
“Hung Parliament”
That’s far too soft. Hanging,drawing and quartering - that’ll teach ‘em!
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Fri 27 Sep 11:55
Johnston isn't daft. He knows at the present time at least, his party would easily win an election.
Remain votes would be split between Labour and Lib Dems whilst The Brexit Party would take a back seat leaving the Tories a clear run to mop up most of the leavers votes.
The opposition parties could come out on top if they do a vote of no confidence first then finally agree on a leader of a temporary coalition government to request an extension, take no deal off the table in the meantime then go for a General Election.
Tories in that scenario might still win but this time, the Brexit Party would take an active part leaving the Tories a much reduced vote.
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey
Date: Fri 27 Sep 12:30
"The opposition parties could come out on top if they do a vote of no confidence first then finally agree on a leader of a temporary coalition government to request an extension, take no deal off the table in the meantime then go for a General Election."
And spit in the face of 17.4 million voters?
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 27 Sep 12:43
17.4 million voters voted for Brexit and the Tory Party repeatedly refused to vote through Theresa May's deal which would have seen the UK leave the EU last March. It spit in the face to all those voters huh?
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: Bandy
Date: Fri 27 Sep 13:00
May's deal wasn't blocked by those that wanted to Remain. It was blocked by Brexiteers who wanted no deal. The myth being perpetuated that it's the 'Remoaners' who are blocking Brexit is just that - a myth. It's the 'hard core' Brexiteers who have deliberately stymied negotiations so they can embrace the disaster capitalism opportunities of 'No Deal' who are actually preventing the exit. Now, according the them the only way of 'honouring the result' is 'No Deal' - which is convenient for them. What's even more convenient is that they can cast the 'Remoaners' as the fall guy for the downside of 'No Deal' when, in fact, that's been the plan all along.
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Topic Originator: the saline hill puma
Date: Fri 27 Sep 14:14
Quote:
Captain Desmond Fancey, Fri 27 Sep 13:15
May's "deal" was never Brexit.
In your opinion
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Fri 27 Sep 14:20
Quote:
Captain Desmond Fancey, Fri 27 Sep 13:15
May's "deal" was never Brexit.
There are several forms of Brexit. May's Brexit was as 'Brexit' as any of them.
It meant leaving the EU as a member.
It satisfied the majority of Brexiteers by halting freedom of movement, the priority of most Brexiteers if we're honest.
It satisfied the Irish problems.
It had a trade deal remaining and as said, it was the Tories themselves that have us still in deadlock, not anyone else.
What I do know is, very few voted for an act of self harm unprecedented in political history.
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: BigJPar
Date: Fri 27 Sep 14:26
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Fri 27 Sep 15:02
This thread is highlighting what I've been saying for three years: there is no one notion of what Brexit means and the oft-quoted 17.4million weren't voting for the same thing.
As one of said 17.4million I think that there has to be a confirmatory referendum, not least to check that the offered Brexit is the one that folk thought they were voting for, because I, for one, certainly didn't vote for [I]this[/I] - who in their right mind would do that?
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Topic Originator: wetherby
Date: Fri 27 Sep 15:30
Will also give the majority of the electorate (62.3%) who didnt vote for Brexit the opportunity to confider the alternatives.
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Fri 27 Sep 18:13
Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Fri 27 Sep 15:02
This thread is highlighting what I've been saying for three years: there is no one notion of what Brexit means and the oft-quoted 17.4million weren't voting for the same thing.
As one of said 17.4million I think that there has to be a confirmatory referendum, not least to check that the offered Brexit is the one that folk thought they were voting for, because I, for one, certainly didn't vote for [I]this[/I] - who in their right mind would do that?
Spot on Wotsit I am also one of the 17.4 million and angry with myself more than anyone else for falling for it
This is certainly not the brexit we were promised albeit misinformed and lied to
I am sure many who voted leave if given a second chance would change to remain
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Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par
Date: Sun 29 Sep 13:22
Quote:
Captain Desmond Fancey, Fri 27 Sep 13:15
May's "deal" was never Brexit.
May's "deal" was effectively a longer extension to negotiate a 'final' deal.
We stay in, we continue to pay, we have less/no say on rules.
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Mon 30 Sep 10:12
I couldn't resist it but what I mean of course is
Is Bojo prostituting himself, i.e.being bought by hedge-funders?
Apologies for my political ignorance but after reading the 'Byline Times' article hot-linked by Busspasspar on the 'What about the 47 million' thread, (29 Sep 20:41) which I thought made things clear, I'm now puzzled as fek.
Could well be wrong but it seems! the story so far is:
Hedge-funders stand to make billions out of a 'no deal' Brexit?
The Tories receive big donations from hedge-funders.
Therefore BJ is on hedge-funders side and driving for 'no deal' ?
What I don't understand is:
Many Tories voted for May's deal?
Tory rebels and the Opposition against?
That doesn't add up. It seems to mean the 'bad guys' (hedge fund supporters) voted for a deal and the 'good guys' against.
Of course BJ wasn't PM when May's deal was voted down. Is it the case that May wasn't on the side of hedge-funders but BJ is?
I've been looking for clues on the 'Has Cummings made a nasty mess' thread.
Bandy suggested (27 Sep 13:00) hard core Brexiteers 'stymied negotiations.'
But the Opposition and rebel Tories who voted against May's deal are not hard core Brexiteers?
Questions, all of this. Getting swampy.
Same thread, AAPS says (27 Sep 14:20) 'It was the Tories themselves that still have us in deadlock.' How so, if most Tories voted for May's deal and the Opposition against?
So the question is, are hedge-funders and Bojo in league and driving for no deal?
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Mon 30 Sep 20:30
Onandupthepars
Yes that is how it would appear and also throw in the new EU offshore tax avoidance bill that was still included tucked away at the back of Miss Brasiers deal
Then you can begin to understand why the millionaires who will become multi millionaires and the multi millionaires who will become oligarch's voted against it
Another wee interesting read and again if only half is true ooer
https://www.quora.com/Why-are-Remainers-so-convinced-that-staying-in-the-European-Union-is-what-is-best-for-the-UK/answer/Barry-McGuinness-1?fbclid=IwAR2ylGK9VRqsMhmr17wiowClhdiB6jFg43PsXYmJT3EE2-7A_Acv33Cf21c
If you can't be bothered to read it all the conclusion is :-
Conclusion
Whatever its initial driving forces, Brexit is now essentially a coup pulled off by a subgroup of Conservative Party politicians on behalf of tax-dodging tycoons and unscrupulous investors.
They have been systematically misleading the British public to hate the EU through a constant supply of anti-EU propaganda and lies. Their only concern for ‘taking back control’ is to rid UK businesses of EU tax laws, financial regulations and employees’ rights. To this end, their immediate objective is to bring about a no-deal Brexit.
They are abusing democracy to create a plutocracy.
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
Post Edited (Mon 30 Sep 20:35)
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Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Mon 30 Sep 20:39
Sorry but that website is all about opinions and few facts.
Try again
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Mon 30 Sep 20:54
Ok parbucks
But it would appear your Prime Minister as you refer to him has been a serial liar all his working life
Designed specifically as a master plan leading to the cluster f**k known as Brexit
He began his career in journalism at The Times but was dismissed for falsifying a quotation.
Johnson then secured employment on the leader-writing desk of The Daily Telegraph, having known its editor, Max Hastings, through his Oxford University Union presidency. His articles were designed to appeal to the newspaper's conservative, middle-class, middle-aged "Middle England" readership, and were known for their distinctive literary style, replete with old-fashioned words and phrases, and for regularly referring to the readership as "my friends". In early 1989, Johnson was appointed to the newspaper's Brussels bureau to report on the European Commission, remaining in the post until 1994.A strong critic of Commission President Jacques Delors, he established himself as one of the city's few Eurosceptic journalists. Many of his fellow journalists there were critical of his articles, opining that they often contained lies designed to discredit the Commission;Chris Patten later stated that, at that time, Johnson was "one of the greatest exponents of fake journalism".
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Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Mon 30 Sep 22:16
What’s the saying?:
“Play the ball not the man”.
I should remind you that Bill Clinton had similar stuff alleged against him yet after 8 years he had a higher public rating when he left than when he started.
Boris should be judged on what he achieves for the country in his premiership not what his opponents do to undermine him.
Let the people decide. That’s democracy.
Post Edited (Mon 30 Sep 22:16)
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Mon 30 Sep 22:23
The way Johnson became PM certainly wasn't democratic.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Mon 30 Sep 22:46
And what exactly HAS Johnson achieved? He's like a drunk guy knocking over chairs and stumbling into tables. His cabinet seem to be just as bad.
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Mon 30 Sep 22:57
Quote:
jake89, Mon 30 Sep 22:46
And what exactly HAS Johnson achieved? He's like a drunk guy knocking over chairs and stumbling into tables. His cabinet seem to be just as bad.
I reckon this is the most furniture-laden post in the history of dot net.
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Tue 1 Oct 19:32
not bad for a tall boy ipswichpar :-)
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Wed 2 Oct 01:02
I think at the end of the day , when all the superficial glitter is removed, Boris Johnson is more the Benny Hill of UK politics than anything else.
He salutes the Queen awkwardly, sticks out his tongue at the plebs, then chases after some nubile women across the grass outside the House of Commons.
He is supposed to be in Brussels cutting a deal.
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Topic Originator: Mario
Date: Wed 2 Oct 07:36
Busspasspar, top drawer stuff....tallboy, wow, that takes me back. No IKEA then, built to last
If you hadn’t already revealed your old gitness with yon monicker that would have done it!
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Wed 2 Oct 09:34
Mario
LOL
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