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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Fri 4 Oct 17:29
Boris Johnson will send a letter to the EU asking for a Brexit delay if no deal is agreed by 19 October, according to government papers submitted to a Scottish court.
But Downing Street said the UK would still be leaving the EU on 31 October.
The so-called Benn Act - named after Labour MP Hilary Benn who spearheaded its passage into law - requires the government to request an extension to the 31 October Brexit deadline if a deal has not been signed off by Parliament by 19 October.
A senior Downing Street source said: "The government will comply with the Benn Act, which only imposes a very specific narrow duty concerning Parliament's letter requesting a delay - drafted by an unknown subset of MPs and pro-EU campaigners - and which can be interpreted in different ways.
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Fri 4 Oct 18:31
I think the plan is to p*** off the r27 so much that they dont agree to the extension he requests in the letter.
Offering something they wont accept is a good first step.......
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Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh
Date: Sat 5 Oct 07:50
Is it possible to request the extension and make ridiculous demands in the same letter, where they are both dependent on each other?
Maybe they will ask for am extension to article 50, a shrubbery (but a nice one on two levels with a path down the middle), and that Michel Barnier cut down the biggest tree in the Black Forest using a herring.
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Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par
Date: Sat 5 Oct 14:41
One question that I didn't see address...
Yes, Johnson is obliged to request an extension if there is no deal...
However, such an extension needs to be agreed by every member state.
Isn't UK STILL a member?
- could Johnson actually veto his own request for an extension?
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Sat 5 Oct 14:49
I think he needs to play ball.....there is stuff in the Benn Act about that....considerate member or whatever it is.
More likely he will point to everyone blocking him and up the ante for an election in the event of a delay and use this as capital. He will walk that.
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Topic Originator: Tenruh
Date: Sat 5 Oct 17:53
Quote:
Luxembourg Par, Sat 5 Oct 14:41
One question that I didn't see address...
Yes, Johnson is obliged to request an extension if there is no deal...
However, such an extension needs to be agreed by every member state.
Isn't UK STILL a member?
- could Johnson actually veto his own request for an extension?
Think they're trying to get Hungry to Vito their (English parliament) request
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Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par
Date: Sat 5 Oct 17:57
<<Think they're trying to get Hungry to Vito their (English parliament) request >>
So if they miss out breakfast and lunch, and turn up in a Mercedes van, will they be <Hungry to Vito> enough?
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Sat 5 Oct 18:45
Cant see the Hungarians being too popular with the others in that case.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Sat 5 Oct 20:13
Money changing hands allegedly!
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Sun 6 Oct 10:08
Quote:
LochgellyAlbert, Sat 5 Oct 20:13
Money changing hands allegedly!
Say it isn't so.....
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Sun 6 Oct 16:30
And now this from the Sunday Times ..... Canny be right surely ??
Boris Johnson will dare the Queen to sack him rather than resign as prime minister in an attempt to drive through Brexit on October 31, cabinet ministers have revealed.
In an unprecedented escalation of the constitutional crisis, senior aides said Johnson would not stand aside if his proposals were rejected by Brussels and MPs tried to unseat him to avert a no-deal Brexit.
They said Johnson was prepared to “squat” in Downing Street even if MPs declare no confidence in his government and agree a caretaker prime minister to replace him.
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Topic Originator: donj
Date: Sun 6 Oct 19:27
Do we have gallows left as I believe that might be at the point we need them.
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Sun 6 Oct 19:29
The guillotine is more efficient, and there are a lot to get through.
Just saying.
"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Mon 7 Oct 11:33
Conspiring with Lib Dem’s to stand aside so he can stand as an Independent since he will be deselected as a Tory MP in Beaconsfield.
Sorry thought you meant Grieve!
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Topic Originator: Bandy
Date: Mon 7 Oct 13:38
In the same way that the Tories are conspiring with Farage?
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Mon 7 Oct 15:59
DUP have more faces than the Toun Clock!
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Mon 7 Oct 16:28
Quote:
Luxembourg Par, Sat 5 Oct 14:41
One question that I didn't see address...
Yes, Johnson is obliged to request an extension if there is no deal...
However, such an extension needs to be agreed by every member state.
Isn't UK STILL a member?
- could Johnson actually veto his own request for an extension?
There was an EU expert on Radio Scotland couple of weeks ago said that this is exactly what they can do.
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Mon 7 Oct 17:34
He is obliged to be a constructive member (50 per cent ain't bad) so I think he needs to tread carefully legally.
It was in Newsnight the other night I think.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Mon 7 Oct 17:35
If that's right could the UK also scupper any EU decision to reject the deal? Seems crazy.
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Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Mon 7 Oct 19:34
If we are forced to stay in can just veto the EU budget review for the next 6 year cycle due from 2020.
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Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Mon 7 Oct 19:40
By the way what’s the purpose of any extension beyond October 31st per the Surrender Bill?
EU will not offer anything and the opposition conspiracy can’t agree on what they want.
All a plot to Remain except they won’t say that. Democrats my er£e.
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Mon 7 Oct 19:58
By the way what’s the purpose of any extension beyond October 31st per the Surrender Bill?
Gives us time to have an election then sort things out.
Why the rush? There will still be blue passports in January.
"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Mon 7 Oct 20:00
Quote:
parbucks, Mon 7 Oct 19:40
By the way what’s the purpose of any extension beyond October 31st per the Surrender Bill?
EU will not offer anything and the opposition conspiracy can’t agree on what they want.
All a plot to Remain except they won’t say that. Democrats my er£e.
If we are going to ruin the country we would be as well having one last decent Christmas before we get banjoed back to the Stone Age.
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Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Mon 7 Oct 20:29
“Gives us time to have an election then sort things out.”
If that’s the case let’s do it now. Ah but.....
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Mon 7 Oct 21:23
Folk don't trust Johnson, so they don't want the 31st to fall in the middle of an election, without Parliament around to keep an eye on him and his schemes.
I could have stopped after four words there tbh.
"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Mon 7 Oct 21:30
Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Mon 7 Oct 20:29
“Gives us time to have an election then sort things out.”
If that’s the case let’s do it now. Ah but.....
parbucks under normal circumstances the opposition party's would embrace a GE but these are not normal circumstances .....Boris wants a general election because the timing would secure his desire to crash out with no deal
The opposition party's are putting the Country before their own agenda
Lets take No Deal off the table then have a GE .... If Boris sneaks in and forms a coalition with Nigel then so be it ..... but please let us end all this subterfuge, dirty tricks, smoke and mirrors and lies from the worst government in living memory ....... Just saying
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Topic Originator: donj
Date: Mon 7 Oct 21:31
What really gets me is how the nutjobs and old Tories seem to have taken over England and no matter they are a minority they are getting control.
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Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Mon 7 Oct 21:54
“The opposition party's are putting the Country before their own agenda “
That’s an oxymoron if ever I saw one.
52% voted leave.
64% of constituencies voted leave.
Help me understand that statement.
Post Edited (Mon 07 Oct 22:04)
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Topic Originator: donj
Date: Mon 7 Oct 22:20
I really would love to see that referendum repeated.Lets see if you win that one as old gits,like myself so allowed,probably gone and young voters in.
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Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Mon 7 Oct 22:29
What’s the saying:
Up to 40 you vote with your heart. After that you vote with your head.
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Mon 7 Oct 22:44
I vote with a pencil.
"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Tue 8 Oct 06:45
Quote:
parbucks, Mon 7 Oct 21:54
“The opposition party's are putting the Country before their own agenda “
That’s an oxymoron if ever I saw one.
52% voted leave.
64% of constituencies voted leave.
Help me understand that statement.
37.5% of the electorate voted Leave, actually. Even going by your flawed arithmetic, do the 48% who voted Remain not have any rights?
Of course those who voted Remain are unhappy at the prospect of Brexit and are doing all they can to halt a crash out. Remember Farage while conceding that Leave would almost certainly lose the Referendum vote saying "It's not finished by a long chalk" or similar.
There has been enough of a time lag since the Referendum and the result was close enough to justify another one now, along the lines proposed by Corbyn, of whom I'm not a fan, but his proposal is more sensible than No Deal at all costs.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: BigJPar
Date: Tue 8 Oct 07:02
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Topic Originator: BigJPar
Date: Tue 8 Oct 07:06
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Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Tue 8 Oct 09:23
“37.5% of the electorate voted Leave, actually”
I can turn that round and say that despite all the Project Fear hysteria only 35% of the electorate voted to Remain in the EU. Not a very resounding vote of confidence after 40+ years membership.
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Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Tue 8 Oct 09:33
“Meaning people get selfish as they get older? “
Absolutely not. Meaning that as they mature, take on responsibilities, embark on careers etc and see the world as it is they lose many of the idealistic socialist views they had when they were younger.
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Topic Originator: Andrew283
Date: Tue 8 Oct 09:50
Quote:
parbucks, Tue 8 Oct 09:33
“Meaning people get selfish as they get older? “
Absolutely not. Meaning that as they mature, take on responsibilities, embark on careers etc and see the world as it is they lose many of the idealistic socialist views they had when they were younger.
So they become senile, self interest obsessed and the likes who couldn't care less what happens so long as they get rid of Johnny foreigner and can continue going on Caravan holidays to Brechin? If my future is to become like somebody the lunatic 'Brexit means brexit' types then put a bullet in me right now as I'd honestly rather never devolve to that point, thanks
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Tue 8 Oct 09:55
[I]Absolutely not. Meaning that as they mature, take on responsibilities, embark on careers etc and see the world as it is they lose many of the idealistic socialist views they had when they were younger.
That doesn't make sense.
it's just something that bitter old right wingers say to make themselves feel better for being selfish gits.
"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
Post Edited (Tue 08 Oct 10:13)
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Tue 8 Oct 10:53
Quote:
parbucks, Tue 8 Oct 09:33
“Meaning people get selfish as they get older? “
Absolutely not. Meaning that as they mature, take on responsibilities, embark on careers etc and see the world as it is they lose many of the idealistic socialist views they had when they were younger.
That's possibly the most stupid comment on this whole thread and that's saying something.
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Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Tue 8 Oct 11:26
I see the wolves are out pack hunting. 😉
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Tue 8 Oct 12:36
Is that how you console yourself when multiple people disagree with your unreferenced theory of social change?
"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Tue 8 Oct 12:53
Quote:
parbucks, Tue 8 Oct 09:23
“37.5% of the electorate voted Leave, actually”
I can turn that round and say that despite all the Project Fear hysteria only 35% of the electorate voted to Remain in the EU. Not a very resounding vote of confidence after 40+ years membership.
OK. Which means that 27.5% of the electorate didn't vote, either because they couldn't be @rsed, were so confused by conflicting information that they didn't know which way to vote or believed Remain would win without their vote, so there was no need for them to vote. One thing is certain, those like yourself, who believe that leaving is the best option, got up off their @rses and went to vote. How do I know that? People who want change will act to make it happen.
The Referendum was flawed because those voting to Leave were not given enough information on what this entailed, other than leaving the EU, but it's a bit more complex than leaving the stadium early because your team is playing rubbish and is getting horsed. Factor in the lies about the NHS getting an extra £350m a week, that we'd be able to control immigration and that Turkey was about to join the EU, meaning millions of refugees and terrorists would come flooding into the UK and we would be powerless to stop them.
In addition, Scots voted by a significant majority (62%) in favour of remaining in the EU. Why should democracy not apply to us? If you voted Remain, you knew what you were voting for. The EU is far from perfect - corruption and bureaucracy are rampant - but it's not all bad. Leaving the EU without a deal - if/when it happens - is a massive gamble from which we may take a very long time to recover.
Is it really worth all that pain and suffering just because a small number of politicians want to make history for their own political ends?
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: BigJPar
Date: Tue 8 Oct 13:10
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Topic Originator: Tenruh
Date: Tue 8 Oct 13:39
Quote:
BigJPar, Tue 8 Oct 13:10
If we are a "union of nations" 3/4 of the nations should have had to vote leave to make it happen.
England gets what England wants..... Every other country has to suck it up
At the moment..
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Tue 8 Oct 14:16
In a proper union of nations any one nation should have had the power to decide its future in the EU ala the way the undemocratic EU requires all Member States to agree when it comes to things like foreign policy.
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Tue 8 Oct 17:03
Hi Parbucks, hope you don't read this as a challenge, it's not meant to be, I'm just speaking plain.
I still think you're confusing two issues.
1. Leaving the EU
2. How we leave
I think you're worried that we won't leave. I hope that's it, because otherwise you come across as someone who is only bothered about people who are on your side. But as you know Brexit will affect everyone, not just those who are on your side. So everybody's interests have to be taken into account.
If, in order to get a deal, it was 100% guaranteed that we'll leave the EU would that satisfy you?
By 100% guaranteed, I mean in an ideal world, where it isn't possible to overturn it.
If you knew for a dead cert we will leave, would you be more tolerant towards those who want a deal?
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Tue 8 Oct 17:14
Conversely, would those who don't really want to leave, agree to leave so long as it's with a deal?
If so, then we could say. so long as:
1. We leave
2. With a deal
everybody's (- if not happy -) satisfied?
Over to you PM? How difficult can it be to unite the country? 😄
Post Edited (Tue 08 Oct 17:18)
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Topic Originator: BigJPar
Date: Tue 8 Oct 17:33
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Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Tue 8 Oct 22:10
“Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Tue 8 Oct 17:03
Hi Parbucks, hope you don't read this as a challenge, it's not meant to be, I'm just speaking plain. “
Many thanks for your objectivity.
Let me be clear I would prefer to leave the EU with a deal but not any deal.
I voted to join the Common Market later to become the European Economic Community whose prime advocate of free trade among all nations was Thatcher.
The EEC was superseded by the Maastricht referendum in 1992 to create the European Union the consequences of which were never fully communicated to the electorate. A simple name change did not spell out the goal of creating a political superstate rather than a trading relationship.
The original political goal of the EU has only become apparent, in my opinion, since German reunification was completed at a cost of two trillion euros and then the introduction of the euro in 1999. Since then the political integration of the EU has continued unabated. Germany has been the greatest beneficiary economically.
The weaker southern countries have regressed.
The EU is on a trajectory to become a European Superstate. That is the basis of the 5 Presidents Report. Read it. The answer to Europe’s problems are “ more Europe”.
In other words more central control from Brussels of fiscal, monetary and legal control.
That is why I want the U.K. out of the clutches of Brussels.
I want to trade with Europe as an equal partner just like Canada and others but not constrained by being tied to a customs union where we cannot negotiate trade with the rest of the world other than on EU terms.
I believe that the Good Friday Agreement has been “weaponised” by both the ROI and the EU in the back stop to keep us in the EU domain indefinitely when there are actually some fairly pragmatic technical solutions given a willingness on both sides to cooperate.
It’s only the EU that will put up customs barriers between NI and the Republic.
So bottom line: leave with a deal but one that protects the integrity of the U.K..
I am both Scottish and British. I never think of my nationality as European.
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Tue 8 Oct 22:20
Europe is not a nation so your nationality cannot be European. I am Scottish. I live on a British Isle. I live in Europe.
I am more European than British. I would never actually call myself anything other than Scottish.
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Topic Originator: donj
Date: Tue 8 Oct 22:29
Funny how you think an agreement that saved lives is being used as a weapon.It is obvious that any border has customs checks between separate countries and all the EU say is you are breaking the agreement as you wish to make NI a separate country.
The big problem is the UK 'government'(not really what it is) want to pass the problem on to them.It isn't an EU problem as they never caused it.
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Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Tue 8 Oct 22:29
But you have an EU passport. Explain that politically.
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Tue 8 Oct 22:29
Quote Parbucks :
The EU is on a trajectory to become a European Superstate. That is the basis of the 5 Presidents Report. Read it. The answer to Europe’s problems are “ more Europe”.
In other words more central control from Brussels of fiscal, monetary and legal control.
So now do you understand why Dominic and his cabal want to leave ??
Waken up Parbucks its no for you and me is it ??
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Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Tue 8 Oct 22:51
donj
The signatories to the GFA were the British and Irish governments plus the local political parties.
The ROI government have been intransigent in trying to find a Brexit solution either of their own accord or at the behest of the EU. They want to tie both NI and /or the U.K. into a customs union where they are controlled by Brussels and unable to negotiate trade deals with the rest of the world.
According to what we have heard so far today Angela Merkel has said that NI would always have to be in the customs union so the back stop, as proposed, was always a trap to keep the whole of the U.K. tied to Europe. That is now becoming clear which is why Boris has said it is unacceptable.
The U.K. wants a deal but not at any price. Unfortunately the actions of the Remainers in Parliament continue to undermine our negotiating position.
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Tue 8 Oct 22:54
Quote:
parbucks, Tue 8 Oct 22:29
But you have an EU passport. Explain that politically.
I don't know what fake-a@@ passport you've got but mine is a British (UK) passport which currently offers privileged travel within the EU.
It even has a massive Royal Coat of Arms on the cover - i expect that an EU passport wouldn't have that.
Then there's dual nationality - for instance imagine if Nigel Farage had German as well as UK citizenship, how many passports could he (legitimately) have?
The answer is two because he has two nationalities and two passport isssuers - one of whom most definitely does not use the royal coat of arms for their front cover.
"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
Post Edited (Tue 08 Oct 23:02)
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Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Tue 8 Oct 22:56
Buspasspar
I’m afraid you’ve lost me. I don’t want “ more Europe”.
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Tue 8 Oct 23:02
Before the referendum loads of people including the most ardent of Brexit supporters were touting Norway (Farage in particular was all over the Norway) and Switzerland as options to emulate for the UK when it came to a deal.
The UK could have gone for one of those options and I suspect most of the electorate would probably have backed either but the the Tories don't want that. It's not down to the EU to bend over to accommodate the UK.
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Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Tue 8 Oct 23:02
Wotsit
On the front cover of my burgundy coloured passport the first words are
“ European Union”.
What kind of passport do you have? 🤔
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Tue 8 Oct 23:10
In tiny writing.
Then the full name of this country in huuuge letters.
And on the inside cover, where it tells you who it's issued by!
And all the backgrounds off all the pages?
But no, none of this matters to you because it has European Union on it, right?
That's basically just advertising your passport's powerups.
"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Tue 8 Oct 23:10
LPF
It always comes down to the GFA and willingness to find a compromise solution which has been lacking on the other side obviously to tie NI or the U.K. into a customs agreement.
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Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Tue 8 Oct 23:12
Wotsit.
You miss the point.
First letters on the cover, in same size type, European Union.
Just check.
Post Edited (Tue 08 Oct 23:13)
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Tue 8 Oct 23:42
Quote:
parbucks, Tue 8 Oct 23:12
Wotsit.
You miss the point.
First letters on the cover, in same size type, European Union.
Just check.
I did.
It's a smaller font but it's not important because it is a passport issued by "Her Brittanic Majesty's Secretarty of State" demanding that i be granted entry.
Nigel Farage's German passport won't say that.
"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Tue 8 Oct 23:46
Mine is the same size font.
Who issued yours.
You should demand the same🤪
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Topic Originator: BigJPar
Date: Wed 9 Oct 04:53
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Wed 9 Oct 07:29
Quote:
parbucks, Tue 8 Oct 23:46
Mine is the same size font.
Who issued yours.
You should demand the same🤪
You two should meet for a beer and have a passport party.
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Wed 9 Oct 08:13
Quote:
parbucks, Tue 8 Oct 22:29
But you have an EU passport. Explain that politically.
I (unfortunately) have a British passport issued in the UK. It's not a European passport but it allows me to travel freely in Europe. When we crash out as you wish your passport will not be reissued.
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Wed 9 Oct 09:29
Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Tue 8 Oct 23:46
Mine is the same size font.
Who issued yours.
You should demand the same🤪
I would surprised if this was true. The font sizes are one of the important features of a passport. If you have the same font on the front cover I would be concerned. As quoted below from the UK Gov Site.
The EU part on the front of the passport should be smaller than the issuing country in all cases.
"Distinct chemicals, fonts and inks also play a part in distinguishing real passports."
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Wed 9 Oct 09:52
Got mine in front of me right now (flying tomorrow morning so getting stuff ready) and can confirm I have European Union at the top on one line and in a bigger font below over 3 lines have United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland below, and then below that (which takes up about 50% of the whole front cover) is the UK cost of arms
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Topic Originator: BigJPar
Date: Wed 9 Oct 09:54
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Wed 9 Oct 10:28
Parbucks bought his from dodgy Boris down the pub.
"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Wed 9 Oct 10:38
Just to confirm, it's Northern Ireland and 'coat', not 'cost' of arms
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Wed 9 Oct 15:28
Ref: parbucks
Tue 8 Oct 22:10
There is a glaring difference between us, Parbucks. You continually talk of official matters such as wanting to <<< trade with Europe as an equal partner >>>
I'm for the person in the street. And I can't see that it's worth all the carnage.
I think I sense from you a passion for Scotland and Britain and that you genuinely think Brexit, deal or no deal is best. Perhaps you feel the person in the street would gain in the long run. Maybe you're right. But with no deal, there's going to be a lot of damage to ordinary people's lives, for a long time I think. Is it right that those of us alive today should bear the whole burden of a 'no deal' Brexit? I'm not so very unhappy with things as they are. Why not keep the good that we've got - with a deal - and build on it rather than go for broke.
If we can't get a deal by 31st, what's the hurry?
As my marvellous gran used to say, "yir no' runnin' fir a bus." 😄
Post Edited (Wed 09 Oct 15:34)
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Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Wed 9 Oct 22:12
“Why not keep the good that we've got - with a deal - and build on it rather than go for broke.”
Onandup: reasonable position to have except that Merkel seemed to give the game away yesterday when it was reported she said that Northern Ireland and/ or the U.K. would have to be in a customs union FOREVER with the EU to reach a deal.
That is the ROI position which protects their export trade to and through the U.K. but it ties the U.K. indefinitely to EU rules, no influence on how they are set, inability to do trade agreements with other countries and would force us to accept any trade agreements the EU does with other countries which might be to our disadvantage.
The EU have had plenty of time to review the NI backstop and alternative customs arrangements which have ramifications for the political integrity of the U.K. but clearly they are not disposed to change their entrenched position. They have never negotiated in good faith, IMO, but our position after over three years has not been helped by the incompetence of the May regime and a Remainer Parliamentary majority.
Post Edited (Wed 09 Oct 22:23)
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Wed 9 Oct 22:27
You can talk about customs arrangements, whatever force they have in law, and export trade as if it were something different. The language is calculated to obscure. The DUP supporters themselves, who are not a majority in NI, have many farming votes that want to keep things as they are.
The truth of matter is that the ROI will not be abandoned by the EU, whatever schemes are hatched, and if the Tory Party want to support the DUP hell or high water then there is no way the square can be circled.
BTW, ask Nigel Farage for his knowledge of UK history and see where Ireland fits in. He is a fascist raincoat man who never gave the island a second thought. He is still struggling to come to terms with the Easter Rising.
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Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par
Date: Wed 9 Oct 22:38
<<reasonable position to have except that Merkel seemed to give the game away yesterday when it was reported she said that Northern Ireland and/ or the U.K. would have to be in a customs union FOREVER with the EU to reach a deal.>>
Indeed - seems that she proved many of the people decrying the backstop to have been right after all.
The backstop will never have been removed, and the UK would have been stuck in a customs union with no way of ever extracting itself - and all the time having no say in any rules...
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Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Wed 9 Oct 22:41
Sammer
If things are as you say then the simple solution to the problem, ie the GFA, is to call referenda on both sides of the border under the GFA terms and see if there is a majority on both sides to a United Ireland.
If there isn’t then the current stalemate on a customs union will continue.
Good luck with all that!
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Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Wed 9 Oct 22:43
Lux
Wow. Someone agrees with me 😃
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Thu 10 Oct 03:29
"<reasonable position to have except that Merkel seemed to give the game away yesterday when it was reported she said that Northern Ireland and/ or the U.K. would have to be in a customs union FOREVER with the EU to reach a deal.>"
That's an unsubstantiated briefing that came from a source that works for a guy that's lost two jobs for lying about the EU.
It was Northern Ireland that was reported as having to remain in the Customs Union despite that never having been the EU's position. The EU is clear that whatever happens in NI the Good Friday Agreement needs to be honoured.
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Topic Originator: BigJPar
Date: Thu 10 Oct 05:51
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Thu 10 Oct 09:25
And so it continues :-
The meeting between Boris and Leo will take place in the north-west of England, with Mr Johnson still insisting the UK will leave the EU with or without a deal at the end of the month.
That is despite the so-called Benn Act - passed by MPs last month - demanding he request a delay to the Article 50 deadline from the EU until January 2020 if a deal has not been agreed before 19 October.
On Wednesday, Business Secretary Andrea Leadsom said the PM was gearing up to bypass legal obstacles to a no-deal Brexit by sending one letter requesting an extension and, in the same instance, submitting a second memo telling European leaders he does not want one.
Asked on ITV's Peston programme whether the idea of sending two letters to the EU was a possible loophole, Ms Leadsom replied: "Absolutely."
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Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Thu 10 Oct 15:03
So in the event of a no deal Barnier is reported to have said that the integrity of the EU single market needs to be maintained and that customs checks would have be made in the ROI but these would take place away from the border.
That is the same alternative border solution put forward by the U.K. several times yet has been dismissed as unworkable by the EU.
Someone is telling porkies.
Any time the U.K. makes a concession the EU banks it and then says we have still to come up with more proposals without making any of their own. It’s been obvious for some time there is only one party seriously trying to find a compromise that works for both parties and it isn’t Brussels.
As I have said before the trap of separating the withdrawal agreement from trade negotiations was something May couldn’t see or didn’t care about. Had they been done in parallel the “Irish problem” would have been solved.
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Thu 10 Oct 15:34
Aye parbucks there is so much misleading fake news going around ..... supposed leaked government memo's and correspondence etc between the UK and Brussels and now a Saturday morning shift to decide deal no deal or revoke apparently
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Thu 10 Oct 17:43
I'm basically straddling the Irish border right now... In fact walking down the High Street, I cross the border twice... I can assure you, for the majority here, the issue has little to do with tax or goods and everything to do with identity, essentially being no different for those living at the top of the small town (NI) to those living at the bottom (ROI) given they all se themselves as Irish.
From the signs up around the place and general chatting to family and friends here, I actually fear for what could potentially happen in a no deal brexit.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Thu 10 Oct 18:03
Aye the men of violence will limbering up.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Thu 10 Oct 19:06
Hopefully it won't get to that and one positive difference is there's not anywhere near as much public support for certain activities as there would have been in the past.. but it will be a further wedge between an already polarised society.
in border towns there will be small things, e.g. people here have been sent car insurance green cards and told to put GB on their licence plates (which won't happen) or if there are any other procedural things, they will be duly ignored by even the most anti-violence of people.. which will leave an issue if anyone tries to enforce them.
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Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Thu 10 Oct 19:35
No one will enforce GB stickers. Never have going back decades.
The number plates are a give away in any case.
Hopefully common sense will prevail on all sides but that won’t stop the extremists who will look to exploit any situation.
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Thu 10 Oct 20:16
Quote:
parbucks, Thu 10 Oct 19:35
No one will enforce GB stickers. Never have going back decades.
The number plates are a give away in any case.
Hopefully common sense will prevail on all sides but that won’t stop the extremists who will look to exploit any situation.
Yeah. Common sense. That was in short supply in the past. Is there a deeper well for that now?
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Thu 10 Oct 20:46
Quote :-
Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Thu 10 Oct 19:35
Hopefully common sense will prevail on all sides but that won’t stop the extremists who will look to exploit any situation.
parbucks I know we have different views and opinions on the current situation but is the above quote not exactly what is happening right now a la Dominic et al
Have you read Britannia Unchained?...Global lessons for growth and prosperity 5 authors .....Kwasi Kwertang, Priti Patel, Dominic (yes another) Raab, Chris Skidmore, and Liz Truss ...... all in Dominic Cummings Cabinet and BTW it is not even up to 'o' level standard
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Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Thu 10 Oct 20:54
”parbucks I know we have different views and opinions on the current situation but is the above quote not exactly what is happening right now a la Dominic et al”.
bpp
Fair enough but if the EU was serious about maintaining the GFA and the peace process they would be less inflexible over the border issue. They have weaponised it to keep the U.K. tied to Brussels in the customs union and to hell with any compromise.
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Thu 10 Oct 21:17
parbucks .... A compromise is you don't get all you want so you deny the other guy all that he wants .... Its a mess the bluster and brinkmanship has run its course .....Lets get a deal lets get out but not a no deal which will make a lot of people very rich and very happy including Dominics Russian masters
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Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Thu 10 Oct 21:31
Bpp
Amazingly we agree. A deal but not at any price as I have previously said.
That’s where compromise comes in.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Thu 10 Oct 22:22
Nissan has said today that a no deal brexit isn't compatible with their European business plan. The EU must be rubbing their hands with glee at all the inward invest they are going to pick up.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Thu 10 Oct 23:21
The Japanese signed a trade agreement with the EU earlier this year after years of negotiation.
It means Japan can export on more favourable terms, zero tariffs, into Europe so less advantage in being invested in Europe in the future.
Combine that with the realignment of the car industry, for example, towards electric cars then it is obvious that given the investment required Japanese industry will restructure to gain economies of scale and produce more at home for export into Europe.
Brexit is an excuse for retrenchment.
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Fri 11 Oct 07:53
Looks like a decent 2 way deal.
President of the European Commission Jean-Claude Juncker said: "Europe and Japan are sending a message to the world about the future of open and fair trade. We are opening a new marketplace home to 635 million people and almost a third of the world's Gross Domestic Product, bringing the people of Europe and Japan closer together than ever before. The new agreement will give consumers greater choice and cheaper prices; it will protect great European products in Japan and vice-versa, such as the Austrian Tiroler Speck or Kobe Beef; it will give small businesses on both sides the chance to branch out to a completely new market; it will save European companies 1 billion euro in duties every year and turbo-boost the trade we already do together. More than anything, our agreement shows that trade is about more than quotas and tariffs, or millions and billions. It is about values, principles and fairness.
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Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh
Date: Fri 11 Oct 21:06
You are forgetting that EU deals are, by definition, bad ones that screw the UK over.
Once we are free of the shackles we can set up good deals where we sell junk to other countries and all they ask for is a cup.of tea and a biscuit in return.
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Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Fri 11 Oct 21:47
Is that what we do to over 170 countries we trade with on WTO terms including USA and the Commonwealth?
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 11 Oct 22:20
You mean like how France and Germany do at far better levels than the UK does? Doing it while in the 'straitjacket' of EU regulations.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Fri 11 Oct 23:49
I think you will find the French in particular are good at finding ways round the “straight jacket “ of EU regulations. Their support of industries like utilities and railways which the government subsidises is one example. The U.K. has always been naive in following the rules.
Maybe just put it down to cultural differences.
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Sat 12 Oct 01:37
With the greatest respect mate they haven't been naive in following the rules. Banking aside they've been ideologically opposed to putting money into supporting British companies unless it was paying them as private contractors or giving them tax breaks. They've never wanted to do what France has done irrespective of whether it was allowable or not.
Post Edited (Sat 12 Oct 01:39)
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Sat 12 Oct 16:48
The UK has a reputation for sticking to EU regulations far too rigidly, when they are designed to be flexible, while complaining incessantly about how the rules are far too rigid.
"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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Topic Originator: Mario
Date: Sun 13 Oct 13:55
Too true. We are rigid when it comes to bananas. Or bananas about rigidity
Post Edited (Sun 13 Oct 14:00)
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Topic Originator: BigJPar
Date: Sun 13 Oct 15:40
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