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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Wed 11 Dec 21:25
Huge Massive day in British Political History Tomorrow
To Scotland :- Lets rid our Country of the Quislings who are the Scottish Tory's
To Ireland :- Beware the DUP will sell you out for the right number of billions
To Wales :- Get behind Plaid Cymru then go for Independence
To England :- The Bastard Nation... Stop moaning about the NHS, Benefits, Food Banks, Homeless, Child Poverty, Disabled, get off yer lazy xxxxx and VOTE the Tory's out the Door
To Youth Voters :- Its your future ...mine and many like me have had our day vote wisely vote Labour
To The Undecided :- You don't like Corbyn so you'll vote for Boris you might even vote for the Lib Dems
You don't understand Brexit so you will probably vote Tory as they keep saying they will get it done
Any vote for the Lib Dems, Brexit, Greens et al is a vote for the Tory's
Please don't fek it up Tomorrow on a personal whim ...think about your Children and Grand Children's future ....... Just Saying
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Topic Originator: Mario
Date: Wed 11 Dec 22:26
To the SNP..just giving you a mention as the the tiddly old fart missed you out.
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Wed 11 Dec 22:49
Mario yer a wag right enough Scotland is the SNP and will boot the lying misanthropes out
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Topic Originator: BigJPar
Date: Wed 11 Dec 22:56
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Topic Originator: Mario
Date: Thu 12 Dec 06:42
Scotland is the SNP?
Not when most votes will be for anyone but them today.
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Thu 12 Dec 07:38
Most votes today will be anyone but Tory.
I'll be voting SNP for that very reason.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 12 Dec 08:30
There are reports of queues at quite a few polling stations even at this time of day.
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Thu 12 Dec 08:36
There was a queue of about a dozen folk at mine this morning. It's quite a bright morning in Edinburgh though, not sure what the weather is doing elsewhere and that's bound to have an impact.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: Mario
Date: Thu 12 Dec 08:54
Quite right...nobody will get more votes than the sum of their opponents, but the Snippers will be swanning about as usual like they own the place.
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Thu 12 Dec 09:21
The more people who vote means less chance of Boris getting back in so they say
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Topic Originator: BigJPar
Date: Thu 12 Dec 09:51
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Thu 12 Dec 14:19
Just back from my polling station and great to see so many young voters there
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 12 Dec 15:23
Who is going to benefit most from a big turnout?
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Thu 12 Dec 15:29
I'm going to say that turnout will be slightly higher than average at best.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Thu 12 Dec 16:07
Quote :-
Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 12 Dec 15:23
Who is going to benefit most from a big turnout?
The bigger the turn out will be worse for the Tory's chances according to the experts
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 12 Dec 17:18
To the SNP - try delivering on health and education. How anyone can vote SNP in Dunfermline is beyond me. Continue to oversee a reduction in police on our streets, the gradual closing of QMH and the dropping educational standards. All devolved issues so no blaming Westminster.
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Topic Originator: BigJPar
Date: Thu 12 Dec 17:23
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Topic Originator: Tenruh
Date: Thu 12 Dec 17:42
I'm beyond you... Just saying like,
Prescription charges abolished
Free tuition protected
60,000 affordable homes completed
Lowest crime levels in 40+ years
Queensferry crossing completed
Bridge tolls abolished
Bedroom Tax abolished
Baby Box
End of right to buy
NHS staffing up by 12000 in 10 year's
A&E best performance in the UK
Scotland can only spend what they're given
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Thu 12 Dec 17:58
Quote :-
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Thu 12 Dec 15:29
I'm going to say that turnout will be slightly higher than average at best.
You might not be far of the mark towk unless there is a surge after folk finish work
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 12 Dec 18:19
Tenruh, Scotland gets more than the rest of the UK gets per head, which is why these things can be introduced.
In an independent Scotland, how will these things be funded?
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Thu 12 Dec 18:31
Quote :-
Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 12 Dec 18:19
Tenruh, Scotland gets more than the rest of the UK gets per head, which is why these things can be introduced.
In an independent Scotland, how will these things be funded?
Jake89 Scotland is a rich resource Country even without oil... Why do you think England want to keep us ? Is it because they like us.... No Is it because they need us ....Yes ...Why do you think they made all the effort to keep a Country who they have treated with contempt during and since WW2 ......because without Scotland they are feked
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Topic Originator: Tenruh
Date: Thu 12 Dec 18:50
Quote:
jake89, Thu 12 Dec 18:19
Tenruh, Scotland gets more than the rest of the UK gets per head, which is why these things can be introduced.
In an independent Scotland, how will these things be funded?
Oh dear, Scotland the country that survived on handouts.. Cringe
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Thu 12 Dec 18:53
Quote:
jake89, Thu 12 Dec 17:18
To the SNP - try delivering on health and education. How anyone can vote SNP in Dunfermline is beyond me. Continue to oversee a reduction in police on our streets, the gradual closing of QMH and the dropping educational standards. All devolved issues so no blaming Westminster.
People like you who continually run down your own country really do my t*ts in.
It really is cringeworthy cap in hand stuff.
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: donj
Date: Thu 12 Dec 19:29
As said before why exactly would the Tories cling on desperately to a money losing place.
Oh I forgot how generous they are to everybody.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 12 Dec 19:35
To be clear, I'm not running the country down at all. I'm querying how we would pay for all the extras we get as a result of the Barnett formula.
So far I've been offered no detail other than us being resource rich. In an independent Scotland, how much revenue will be be earning from these resources?
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 12 Dec 19:37
And, for clarity, I voted for Mags Hall today. Someone ensuring Scotland continues to develop those resources in a sustainable way.
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Thu 12 Dec 20:03
Jake your vote is your prerogative and who are we to judge you on it unfortunately these will never be Mag's Hall's decisions
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Topic Originator: BigJPar
Date: Thu 12 Dec 20:13
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 12 Dec 20:18
They do indeed. I fully expect Mags to fail in her pursuit but times change. 20 years ago the SNP were the also rans.
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Topic Originator: Mario
Date: Thu 12 Dec 20:20
What contempt did Scotland suffer from England during WW2?
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Topic Originator: BigJPar
Date: Thu 12 Dec 20:42
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Thu 12 Dec 20:46
Quote :-
Topic Originator: Mario
Date: Thu 12 Dec 20:20
What contempt did Scotland suffer from England during WW2?
Oh Mario Oh Mario put yer right leg in and swing it all about
Go and do some research I was being generous to England btw it goes Much further back than WW2
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Topic Originator: Mario
Date: Thu 12 Dec 20:54
No, just the bit I asked about will do for starters. Spit it out.
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Thu 12 Dec 20:57
Mario you have to be kidding me ?
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Topic Originator: Mario
Date: Thu 12 Dec 21:04
Thought not.
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Thu 12 Dec 22:12
Quote:
Mario, Thu 12 Dec 20:20
What contempt did Scotland suffer from England during WW2?
Churchill abandoned the 51st Highland regiment at St Valery.
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Thu 12 Dec 22:25
Quote :-
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Thu 12 Dec 22:12
Quote:
Mario, Thu 12 Dec 20:20
What contempt did Scotland suffer from England during WW2?
Churchill abandoned the 51st Highland regiment at St Valery.
sadindiefreak please do not try and educate a man who knows nothing but will contest everything he does not understand :-)
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Thu 12 Dec 22:40
Quote:
Buspasspar, Thu 12 Dec 22:25
Quote :-
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Thu 12 Dec 22:12
Quote:
Mario, Thu 12 Dec 20:20
What contempt did Scotland suffer from England during WW2?
Churchill abandoned the 51st Highland regiment at St Valery.
sadindiefreak please do not try and educate a man who knows nothing but will contest everything he does not understand :-)
It's not for Mario's benefit but for anyone else who reads this.
It's important not to let wrong information go unchallenged or others will believe it.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Thu 12 Dec 23:02
SIF, that's simply incorrect about Churchill and the 51st.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: AlterPar
Date: Thu 12 Dec 23:19
UK is highway trucked. Well done to all the stained rear exits.
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Fri 13 Dec 08:32
Weel Mario you'll be a happy Laddie
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Fri 13 Dec 09:08
Quote :-
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Thu 12 Dec 23:02
SIF, that's simply incorrect about Churchill and the 51st.
The officers and men of the 51st Highland Division were placed under French command after Churchill told his opposite number in Paris, Paul Reynaud, that Britain would "never abandon her ally in her hour of need". At its heart were some of the proudest regiments in Scottish history: the Black Watch, the Seaforth Highlanders and the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders, and their men stood and fought as the French army collapsed around them.
After fighting their way back to the Channel and the small town of St. Valery-en-Caux, they found the sea blanketed by thick fog, and no ships there to rescue them. In a last stand that claimed thousands of casualties, and in which the grandfather of the actor Hugh Grant played a pivotal role, the division fought almost to its last bullet. When its commanding officer, Gen Victor Fortune, finally surrendered to Rommel, more than 10,000 men were taken prisoner and marched off to spend the rest of the war in captivity.
The loss of the division shocked the small Highland communities from which its members were drawn. Alan Carswell, the curator of the National War Museum of Scotland, said: "It was a huge blow throughout Britain, but particularly in the Highlands. The 51st had been regarded since the previous war as perhaps the most effective division in the British Army." Moreover, many of the the survivors are still bitter at the way in which they were left to their fate while more than 300,000 other men were plucked off the beaches.
"We are still very angry about it," said Tommy Parton, then a 20-year-old private who had joined as a regular with the Seaforth Highlanders."We were sacrificed by Churchill because he was eager to keep the French fighting. We were placed under poor command, and expected to fight alongside men who didn't have the stomach for it." Mr Parton found himself taking part in a bayonet charge against German positions without any support "because the French tanks didn't turn up". Some elements of the division managed to escape to Le Havre, and on to England by boat, but most of the 51st found itself in St Valery, which was pounded by artillery and Stuka dive bombers, and surrounded by Rommel's tanks.
Saul David, a military historian, believes that Churchill sacrificed the 51st because he was anxious that the French continue fighting from her colonies, or at least resist long enough for Britain to prepare her defenses. However, Capt Ian Campbell, Gen Fortune's intelligence officer and who later became the Duke of Argyll, said shortly before his death in 1973: "It has always been abundantly clear to me that no division has ever been more uselessly sacrificed. It could have been got away a week before but the powers that be - owing I think to very faulty information - had come to the conclusion that there was a capacity for resistance in France which was not actually there."
The above was from the Sunday Telegraph
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
Post Edited (Fri 13 Dec 09:32)
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 13 Dec 09:51
Churchill wasn't even prime minister when the 51st were sent south to shore up the French.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Fri 13 Dec 10:08
Quote :-
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 13 Dec 09:51
Churchill wasn't even prime minister when the 51st were sent south to shore up the French.
Well the historians must have got it wrong towk
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 13 Dec 10:16
Well the ones that you are referencing certainly must be.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Fri 13 Dec 10:52
towk
In June 1940, the 51st (Highland) Infantry Division was attached to French 10th Army and after a fighting retreat from the Somme the greater part of the division was forced to surrender, having being cut off at St Valery-en-Caux on the Channel coast.
Winston Churchill took over as Prime Minister on 10 May, 1940,
In June, 1940, the division was forced to surrender, at St Valery en Caux, to the German general, Erwin Rommel.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 13 Dec 12:05
In April 1940 the 51st was sent to reinforce the French forces around the Maginot Line and put under the French command structure. The Germans invaded in the May and France surrendered in June. Churchill bacame PM on May 10th. So it wasn't Churchill that despatched the 52st so far away from the other forces of the BEF.
When the Germans broke through the Ardennes and swooped north to encircle hundreds of thousands of British and French troops the 51st were, along with their French comrades, were over 100 miles from the coast and were never going to be able to be able to evacuate back to Britain. Those are the facts and they cannot be disputed.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Fri 13 Dec 13:01
Well we are certainly not going to fall out about it towk
I have loads of stuff re battle of festubert where my Grandad was killed WW1
also loads of stuff about the 51st Where many men I knew fought with them some killed and others captured
I will try and find it to see whats what
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Topic Originator: Mario
Date: Fri 13 Dec 13:40
There are plenty of books on the Second World War out there, and any credible volume will give space to the many errors and misjudgments of those politicians and senior commanders responsible for British forces : Arnhem, Crete, Norway, convoys scattered, battleships despatched to the Far East with no air cover..loads more.
But, as someone said, it is never difficult to differentiate between a Scotsman with a grievance and a ray of sunshine.
Post Edited (Fri 13 Dec 13:57)
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Fri 13 Dec 13:53
"Churchill abandoned the 51st Highland regiment at St Valery."
For a start, 51st Highland in 1940 was a Division, not a regiment.
Others have corrected the rest of that mindset is nonsense.
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Fri 13 Dec 17:42
Jings vee have you just wakened up after yer afternoon nap ? yer 10 posts behind Laddie :-)
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Fri 13 Dec 20:54
April 1940 the 51st were attached to the French 3rd Army before Churchill
But towk and this is the bit you cannot understand or accept
Instead of pulling them out Churchll promised the French he would not abandon them and he allowed them to be placed to the French 10th Army
He chose to sacrifice and abandon a proud Scottish Division to appease the French
Last post on this I'm afraid ...can hear the last post playing for all the poor souls
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 13 Dec 22:37
So your saying that the 51st should have abandoned their French brother in arms? The 51st fought to hold back the Nazi war machine which, in part, allowed the miracle of Dunkirk to happen. It wasn't a wasted sacrifice. Also at the time the Battle of France wasn't a fait accompli. Churchill had to show that Britain wasn't going to abandon France. Now with hindsight that was the wrong call but the call wasn't made because the 51st was a Scottish division. The Royal Norfolk Regiment provided a fighting rearguard effort that allowed the Dunkirk evacuation to proceed and they suffered accordingly. It was a fluid war and and all the nations were fighting as one.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: donj
Date: Fri 13 Dec 22:56
Lot of arguments about a war when a lot of people,possibly relatives, died on a thread about the vote which has now been done.
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Fri 13 Dec 23:11
towk you have been proved wrong and not for the first time so why are you trying to deflect your ignorance of the situation and in your last post admitting Churchill was responsible ... a fact you have said on several occasions was not true ..... Go and read your last pathetic post again ....you are one sad case boy.... now fek off and have a good word with yourself ... I'm out of here Merry Christmas Mr. Mitty
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Sat 14 Dec 00:09
"He chose to sacrifice and abandon a proud Scottish Division to appease the French"
Nonsense, 51st Highland were deployed to slow down and impede the German advance which helped allow the evacuation at Dunkirk.
Numerous French formations were likewise involved in that rearguard.
As mentioned, the Royal Norfolks as well - where one of their sub units was massacred as POWs at Le Paradis by Waffen SS.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sat 14 Dec 10:08
Wow Buspass. None so blind as those who don't want to see I guess.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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