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 The Rubicon has been crossed
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 13 Dec 12:19

With large swathes of the working class of England turning their back on Labour and voting Conservative surely Labour is now facing an existential crisis. Much like how Ceasar knew there would be no going back after he crossed the River Rubicon, the lifelong Labour voters down south knew there would be no going back if they voted Conservative. I just heard of some old woman who, after decades of voting for Dennis Skinner in Bolsover, hesitated in the polling booth but then put her cross next to the Tory candidate. Now Skinner is no longer an mp. For her and so many others it won't be nearly so difficult to vote Tory again. If only because of human nature. It can be hard to admit you got it wrong so you end up doubling down.
It will take an absolutely massive swing to dislodge the Tories in 2025 so the UK is set for at least a decade of Conservative rule.



And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed

Post Edited (Fri 13 Dec 12:20)
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 Re: The Rubicon has been crossed
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Fri 13 Dec 12:27

Labour lost its real bond with the working classes (it's "traditional vote") decades ago when they turned their backs on the miners.

Since then it's been habit and, in England, a perceived lack of a viable alternative that kept them voting Labour. Brexit broke that habit in England and Indy broke it in Scotland.

England got their bit, now it's Indy time.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: The Rubicon has been crossed
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Fri 13 Dec 13:08

I honestly thought labour would win many votes from folk who had voted leave but changed their mind

The complete opposite has happened Labour lost in both remain and leave areas
Perhaps the party's neutral brexit stance has cost them

Aye we could have the Tory's for many years to come
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 Re: The Rubicon has been crossed
Topic Originator: Mario  
Date:   Fri 13 Dec 13:08

Indy time? Your party is still 213,000 votes down from four years ago.
Try Tulsa Time, you can sing that in the bath.
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 Re: The Rubicon has been crossed
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Fri 13 Dec 13:16

I'm not paid nearly enough to afford the space for a bath in post-austerity Edinburgh.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: The Rubicon has been crossed
Topic Originator: Mario  
Date:   Fri 13 Dec 13:56

Heh heh..there must still be an old tin bath lying around from old tenement days. Junk shop?
Might even get a back scrubber and scrubberess thrown in..
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 Re: The Rubicon has been crossed
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 13 Dec 13:57

"Indy time? Your party is still 213,000 votes down from four years ago."

Clearly none of those who voted Labour and LibDem would ever consider voting for Independence ?
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 Re: The Rubicon has been crossed
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Fri 13 Dec 14:05

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 Re: The Rubicon has been crossed
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Fri 13 Dec 15:24

Labour should have taken a clear remain stance on Brexit right from the off instead of sitting on the fence virtually the whole way through from 2016 to the present day.
To those that say, "well what about Labour leave voters?" , Yes they would have lost a lot but would have gained votes elsewhere from pro remainers.
It was clear this election was going to be decided on Brexit. The Tories knew it but Labour tried to avoid it.
Nicola Sturgeon had the right idea to just take a clear stance on Brexit despite knowing a third of their own yes supporters voted to leave in 2016.
You can't always please everyone.
Can Labour come back?
Yes of course. The people who lent their votes to the Tories won't be so generous after 5 years of Johnson. Their only reason to vote Tory was on Brexit.
Labour will have to go back to the centre ground though.

Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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 Re: The Rubicon has been crossed
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 13 Dec 16:44

The lesson of the general election, as it was of the EU referendum, seems to be that lying works, cheating works, dirty tricks work, avoiding scrutiny works. At the end of the day it doesn't seem to matter how you got there, the end justifies the means and, sadly, an awful lot of people seem to accept that.
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 Re: The Rubicon has been crossed
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Fri 13 Dec 17:27

Johnson’s gamble has paid off better than even he could have anticipated so the bankers and aristocrats are celebrating. The threat of paying fair tax has disappeared for a few years at least.

However Johnson is inheriting the fruits of his success which include an Irish circle that cannot be squared, a Scottish electorate that were not so long ago being warned that unless they stayed in the UK would be kicked out of the EU, and a youth constituency that has been largely ignored. That’s before he starts hiding in fridges come EU negotiating time.

The Establishment are well aware of these problems ahead and will be trying might and main to make sure that Labour installs a business friendly leader in the wake of Corbyn. Keir Starmer was being groomed for the job in the public’s eye for a while since he is a London lawyer from Oxbridge, therefore part of the gang, but the limited London-centric appeal of Corbyn will surely create the need for someone outwith the metropolis. Jess Phillips would be their favourite choice now I imagine though I wouldn’t rule out the Kinnock nepotism card either. That way their bets are covered when Johnson’s new found voters turn restless.
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 Re: The Rubicon has been crossed
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Fri 13 Dec 17:34

Rebecca Long-Bailey?
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 Re: The Rubicon has been crossed
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Fri 13 Dec 20:57

She's viewed as a Corbynite and has a double barrelled name as well. Rebecca does not sound so good so maybe she'll be changed to 'Becky' if she is serious.

The Guardanistas would want a woman of course in order to be modern and inclusive, but it seems as though the lack of a John Prescott figure has been the problem in the north of England. There used to be a conveyor belt of trade union delegates who became local councillors before aspiring to be Labour MPs. That was a great training and the attack on trade unionism, in which I include Blairism, has left a much smaller pool to draw from.
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 Re: The Rubicon has been crossed
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 13 Dec 22:21

John 'Two Jags' Prescott? Surely the working classes want someone who will champion them and not just use them? Then again maybe I'm being too harsh. At least Prescott realised that Blair was the vehicle that could deliver an absolute massive splurge of public spending in the first decade of this century.
Someone like Alan Johnson would have saved the Labour Party a decade ago but now it's too late. You see the problem with Corbyn was he isn't a million miles removed from Boris Johnson as far as the 'man in the street' is concerned. Neither of them have ever had a proper job and I bet neither could tell you how much a pint of milk would cost. See the working classes (which by the way covers the vast majority of people who vote for all parties) aren't just concerned with economic matters. It's as much about social attitudes as about as financial. The luvvies in metropolitan Labour areas don't get that and as for Momentum? Nothing but a political death cult who will destroy any left leaning party they get their toxic hooks into.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: The Rubicon has been crossed
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Fri 13 Dec 23:29

You could do a bit of leader writing for the Daily Express with that last post.
'Two Jags' is a Tory smear aimed at a man who was highly regarded inside the Labour Party if not one of life's great communicators; he represented the northern England trade union background which has evaporated with the decision to deindustrialise the UK.

All of your jibes against Corbyn would have been equally true about either Blair or Mandelsonn who, rather improbably, held down seats in north east England. The difference is they were prepared to serve the business class at the expense of the working class so got an easy ride from the media.

I'm not sure what the word 'splurge' means in relation to public spending, but I do recall the first Blair government staying within Tory spending parameters for the first two years to reassure their business friends. I didn't hear Alan Johnson referring to that when he called out 'student politicians,' a man who did not have the opportunity or more likely the ability to benefit from university education. He sounded very bitter in his TV expert role, taking no responsibility for the Labour meltdown in Scotland which was apparent when he was in cabinet.

I'm not sure either what a 'proper' job is, so I don't know if I have had one myself. Enlighten me.
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