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 more nurses
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Wed 18 Dec 07:58

can someone simply explain the following as i'm getting bored with all the discussions around nurses (which seems to include reducing attrition rates)

from my understanding, you have a headcount which will include people in position and sometimes a number of vacancies.

for example, if you run an engineering company, you may have a headcount of 1000 with 900 people in position and you're potentially looking to hire 100 more (ignoring the fact that some businesses always run with vacancies)

the way the nurses debate is being sold is that we're getting 50k more... but then he talks about retention.


so back to our engineering company, if the director promises 300 new engineers, that could mean
- they're putting the headcount number up from 1000 to 1300 - thus creating 300 new vacancies (on top of the 100 existing vacancies) that they're actively trying to fill, so on the ground you go from 900 to 1300

- they're filling the existing vacancies and then adding another 200, so the headcount number goes from 1000 to 1200, so on the ground you go from 900 to 1200

- they normally experience a 10% attrition rate (i.e. 100 people leave each year), so retaining them, plus filling the existing vacancies equates to 200 and then they need to hire another 100, i.e. you go from 1000 headcount to 1100 (so on the ground you go from 900 to 1100)


so can anyone tell me the actual increase either on the ground of nurses (not retention rates as all they do is remain in post and save recruitment costs)?
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 Re: more nurses
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 18 Dec 10:35

Nicky Morgan made such a good job of explaining it on TV during the election campaign she has been elevated to the House of Lords.

Where are these nurses going to come from? Are there thousands of trained nurses on the dole or are we going to 'import' them from other countries? The Brexiteers won't like that.
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 Re: more nurses
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Wed 18 Dec 11:55

Guaranteed by the next election the number or nurses will have decreased.
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 Re: more nurses
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Wed 18 Dec 14:58

The British people have been lied to on a scale never seen before.

How we/they react in the next five years will determine whether Bojo and the Tories will have a free hand to do what ever they want and say whatever they want or people power will bring them down.

As people slowly realise that all the promises made are not going to materialise and Brexit turns into an economic disaster , workers rights start to be eroded, there will be one almighty reaction from people the length and breadth of the U.K. particularly from those who lent their vote to the Conservatives.

I think that this government will be brought down before the five year term is up, riots, general strikes , social disorder the lot is only a few years away now as people will wake up and say enough is enough.

Hopefully Scotland will have charted its own path before then.
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 Re: more nurses
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Wed 18 Dec 15:17

Maybe it's just one nurse and every day they don't leave they get counted as a new nurse?
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 Re: more nurses
Topic Originator: Mario  
Date:   Wed 18 Dec 15:24

Bo Peep Sturgeon has charted a garden path for her woolly heided cult. Goes round and round the houses and ends up in the fleecing shed.
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 Re: more nurses
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Wed 18 Dec 17:35

Another intelligent post from Mario. The epitome of many who cast their votes in the recent GE...thick as pig s**t.

“ Brexit means Brexit, get Brexit done, the EU is to blame for everything, make Britain Great again.

Sound bites nothing more.

You are not a Geordie by any chance are you ?


To watch the Tories in Holyrood yesterday smiling as they reminded everyone that we are indeed Brexiting as one nation, considering everyone of them represents a constituency that voted remain makes me sick.

Scotland has seen through these charlatans and they will soon have the smile wiped off their collective faces.
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 Re: more nurses
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 18 Dec 19:20

Anybody catch the local correspondent report on BBC Radio Scotland this morning about the nurses in Northern Ireland ?

Paid significantly less than in the rest of the UK - the DUP were fingered as being the the central villian for not implementing the pay award given separately to England & Wales and Scotland three years ago.

Waiting times to see specialists etc. are frightening.

https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/northern-ireland-nurses-begin-strike-17436913
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 Re: more nurses
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Wed 18 Dec 19:27

Where's the DUP backhander gone, extra flutes for their bands?🎶🎶🎶
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 Re: more nurses
Topic Originator: Parplod  
Date:   Wed 18 Dec 19:36

SNP - “we will put 1000 extra police officers on the beat”
Chose March 2007 as the benchmark despite having been told that that figure was grossly inflated as Strathclyde Police had been over-recruiting in advance of a mass exodus in 2008-2010.
No extra funding and police officer figure red-circled so backroom civilian staff decimated. Their work still had to be done so what happens? Higher paid police officers removed from the street to do backroom work.
The Tories nursing figures may be a nonsense but the SNP have nothing to boast about.
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 Re: more nurses
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Wed 18 Dec 21:48

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 Re: more nurses
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Wed 18 Dec 23:14

Mario is really upset his lot got slaughtered yet again so it's back to name calling for him.Sad really.
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 Re: more nurses
Topic Originator: Superally  
Date:   Thu 19 Dec 06:31

Personally I'm delighted that Mario's Bo Peep Sturgeon values their Scottish Nurses by paying them more than any other part of United Kingdom.



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 Re: more nurses
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 19 Dec 07:50

It takes years to build nurse numbers back up. You can ask Nicola Sturgeon about that as under the SNP they infamously dropped significantly before work was done to bring them back up to the level we had in the early 00s. I believe the SNP also did a Johnson by claiming to have increased numbers...

In Johnson's case he has a double whammy - increasing numbers whilst retaining European employees who may now feel unwelcome in the UK.

Nurse recruitment will be interesting. It's a job that is incredibly rewarding but also hard work. So we'll see how many British people are willing to accept low wages, high stress and being treated with contempt by the Government who limit the funding that would allow them to receive acceptable pay increases (note that MPs just received ANOTHER inflation busting pay rise...).
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 Re: more nurses
Topic Originator: Mario  
Date:   Thu 19 Dec 10:09

No Despy, you’re no a Geordie if you’re born in Dumfie.
But you can be an Anglophobic eejit wherever you pop oot



Post Edited (Thu 19 Dec 10:09)
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 Re: more nurses
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Fri 20 Dec 18:53

Always did prefer Luigi and Wario tbh
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 Re: more nurses
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Fri 20 Dec 21:06

Topic Originator: Parplod
Date: Wed 18 Dec 19:36

SNP - “we will put 1000 extra police officers on the beat”
Chose March 2007 as the benchmark despite having been told that that figure was grossly inflated as Strathclyde Police had been over-recruiting in advance of a mass exodus in 2008-2010.
No extra funding and police officer figure red-circled so backroom civilian staff decimated. Their work still had to be done so what happens? Higher paid police officers removed from the street to do backroom work.
The Tories nursing figures may be a nonsense but the SNP have nothing to boast about.




So nurses and police officers in Scotland get paid more than they do in England and you are not happy ?

Crime rates in England are soaring while they have fallen in Scotland since SNP came to power.

Seems they are not doing too badly to me.
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 Re: more nurses
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Fri 20 Dec 23:35

Crime is a funny one. All comes down to how it's reported and recorded. Same with drug deaths in Scotland. Reports say worst in Europe yet you can claim over recording or under recording depending on the country.
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 Re: more nurses
Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy  
Date:   Sat 21 Dec 00:50

Have to side with Parplod on this one. The SNP have centralised Policing - if you talk to the former Strathclyde officers, they're the only ones that say nothing has changed. Those from Grampian, Fife etc will tell you a lot has changed. The SNP were forced into this to a degree by the budget cuts from Westminster, but they did go against the advice that was given to them by various people inside the service. Basically, they have made a lot of the support staff redundant to maintain officer numbers but that has meant that officers are now doing admin jobs and so on, which takes them off the street.

Great that our public servants are paid more than in England, but the SNP need to get it together when it comes to management of the emergency services. Education en aw. The fact they can still win so comprehensively though tells you all you need to know about the opposition.
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 Re: more nurses
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Sat 21 Dec 07:47

What opposition?
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 Re: more nurses
Topic Originator: Parplod  
Date:   Sat 21 Dec 08:03

It’s gone under the radar that the architect in chief of the Police Scotland fiasco - Kenny McAskill - is back as an MP. In the photo calls with Nicola in Dundee and Ian Blackford in Westminster he was hidden in the back row looking like a Rottweiler chewing a wasp. He is already on record distancing himself from the current Indyref2 bluster.
Talking of drug death figures, the latest set which alleged that Scotland was the drug death capital of Europe were announced on a Tuesday. At PMQs the following day did Blackford use the opportunity to press the Govt. to allow a pilot of safe injecting places in our cities? Of course not. Both of his questions were based round his usual broken record demands for independence.
As someone who is not aligned to any party and who agrees with individual policies put forward by different parties across the political spectrum, I am one of the silent majority in Scotland who just wish that our elected reps (and no one can deny that it was a good result for the SNP last week) would get on with the day job and, if they actually focussed on that day job, might build on the 45% support for independence.
At the moment if the Govt put forward a bill saying, “This House agrees that Christmas Day will fall on 25 December”, Blackford and his rabble rousers would vote against it.
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 Re: more nurses
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sat 21 Dec 08:52

But surely independence and how the SNP perform in Holyrood are two separate issues?

Yes they are the party of government in Holyrood so need to run the country, and our newly elected MPs to Westminster (from all parties) have to do represent their constituencies down in London...

but while I want independence, its bigger than the SNP and a vote for independence is not a vote to set up some one party state. So if/when it happens, we'd have a Scottish General elections and get the government from the political parties with policies that are important to us.

Now on the merits /demerits of being in government, I actually think they're doing a reasonably good job given the circumstances. This thread is on nurse's so for example, the narrative is that the 'SNPs' management of the NHS is bad, but compared to the Tory's NHS in England it's good and labour's NHS in Wales is the worse of the lot!

Also your arguing black is white comment isn't fair given we have completely rejected (must be about 3 times now) the constitutional journey we are being taken on, completely rejected on several occasions the government, their policies and direction that we have to follow and be impacted by...

Whether you like the UK Union or not, you can't deny politically we appear to be on different journeys and any Scottish MP who isn't standing up for that, IMHO isn't doing their job
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