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 SQA
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Mon 10 Aug 16:30

Distinct lack of discussion on here regarding the decision by the SG & SQA to overrule teachers projected marking of pupils based on the schools previous "league table" position.

I don't claim to know the all the answers to this dilemma. All I know is my son was 2% of an A in his Design and Manufacture prelim in January. He got a really good progress report in the same subject 3 weeks later. Last week he was awarded a D.

I'd appreciate anyone elses thoughts on this.

Looks like there might be a massive u-turn tomorrow

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"

Post Edited (Mon 10 Aug 16:32)
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 Re: SQA
Topic Originator: dd23  
Date:   Mon 10 Aug 16:33

How refreshing to hear a government admit they've got it wrong and will address the issue.
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 Re: SQA
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Mon 10 Aug 16:39

Bit of a shambles but there is a discussion in the politics forum on this so wouldn'tsay there is a distinct lack of discussion 😉
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 Re: SQA
Topic Originator: DulochConvert  
Date:   Mon 10 Aug 16:44

To be fair the teachers expected results were 20% higher than 2019’s results, there definitely hasn’t been a 20% improvement so grades had to be downgraded.
However I can’t see why the prelim results weren’t used as the base, with sum tinkering etc.
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 Re: SQA
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 10 Aug 16:50

I imagine the formula is pretty straightforward. Look at what grades kids at the school got last year. Look at what was predicted by the teachers. Compare the two.
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 Re: SQA
Topic Originator: babs woodhouse  
Date:   Mon 10 Aug 16:52

Did they do the same with college results my son was told he would get an A and got a B
this will make it more difficult to get in to uni
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 Re: SQA
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Mon 10 Aug 16:57

Sorry londonparsfan I didn't realise that. Feel free to delete this thread admin.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: SQA
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Mon 10 Aug 17:00

No need to apologise mate. Might get more comments here anyway but possibly an idea to merge the two one way or another?
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 Re: SQA
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 10 Aug 18:53

"However I can’t see why the prelim results weren’t used as the base, with sum tinkering etc."

I don't know how prelims are organised these days (retired too long) however in the past there was a possible weakness in the system because schools set their own prelim exams - therefore, obviously, there was potential for variable and inconsistent standards.

The abscence of traditional final exams makes prelims the only reference point for assessing individual performances under exam discipline conditions.
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 Re: SQA
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Tue 11 Aug 10:49

The results as they stand still show a 20% increase from the most deprived areas.
And significantly higher from other areas.
Shocking that kids who are of a similar age and will be competing in the job market with this years kids are now at at disadvantage.

This surely can't be right either.
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 Re: SQA
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Tue 11 Aug 11:19

sadindiefreak - you seem awfy obsessed with stats. The facts (trust me I know) are on an individual basis kids have been really shafted with this decision. As a parent of a 5th year pupil who was hoping to leave school I'm not concerned in the slightest about comparing this years results with last years or next. This is is about now and needs fixed urgently.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: SQA
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Tue 11 Aug 13:39

You think this years kids are 20% better than last years?
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 Re: SQA
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Tue 11 Aug 13:56

Quote:

sadindiefreak, Tue 11 Aug 13:39

You think this years kids are 20% better than last years?


Yeah. Some of them could be but they're not allowed to be if they come from a more deprived area. Fair?
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 Re: SQA
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 11 Aug 13:57

It should have been left to the appeals process imo. There is no easy way of working it out given no exams have taken place.

Exams have always been problematic as an assessment of understanding anyway. An A grade kid could have a bad day and get a D, or they could be a bang average student who gets an A because the questions happen to be what was on the past paper they did the night before. They tried to mitigate this by putting emphasis on coursework through the year but I don't know if this applies to all courses.
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 Re: SQA
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 11 Aug 13:58

Quote:

moviescot, Tue 11 Aug 13:56

Quote:

sadindiefreak, Tue 11 Aug 13:39

You think this years kids are 20% better than last years?


Yeah. Some of them could be but they're not allowed to be if they come from a more deprived area. Fair?


Is it not the case that the more deprived schools submitted higher than average grades?
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 Re: SQA
Topic Originator: pacifist  
Date:   Tue 11 Aug 13:59

no, of course they aren't. But if you are a teacher and know the kids are you really going to give them a fail? There are 2 different aspects to this. The stats after the deductions are probably accurate. That gives them a bit of credibility. Let's keep them. Then there's the kids. The appeal system should sort that because every estimate put forward by teachers had to be backed up with evidence. If the appeals going forward are only a fraction of the reductions then the story is that teachers put forward estimates without evidence they think would pass scrutiny. Hope that isn't the case. But where there is proper evidence any kids who suffered should get their improved award.
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 Re: SQA
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Tue 11 Aug 14:00

There is no 'right' answer to this but, whichever one the government chooses, the opposition will say it was the wrong one. Watch the fur fly on Thursday when the England and Wales results come out.
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 Re: SQA
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Tue 11 Aug 14:19

Going by the intelligence level of this Government, who mostly went to private school, shows money can't buy you brains!🤔🤣🤣🤣
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 Re: SQA
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 11 Aug 14:22

Great point LA 😂
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 Re: SQA
Topic Originator: Thaipar  
Date:   Tue 11 Aug 14:27

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 Re: SQA
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 11 Aug 15:46

Tens of thousands of school pupils are to have their exam results upgraded after the Scottish government agreed to accept teacher estimates of scores.
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 Re: SQA
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Tue 11 Aug 16:48

Quote:

moviescot, Tue 11 Aug 13:56

Quote:

sadindiefreak, Tue 11 Aug 13:39

You think this years kids are 20% better than last years?


Yeah. Some of them could be but they're not allowed to be if they come from a more deprived area. Fair?


No that is not fair either.
The most unfair thing about it was using an algorithm that penalised kids from deprived areas.
Should have been an average between prelim score and teachers assessment. Or just prelim score if that is higher.
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 Re: SQA
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Tue 11 Aug 16:51

Quote:

sadindiefreak, Tue 11 Aug 16:48

Quote:

moviescot, Tue 11 Aug 13:56

Quote:

sadindiefreak, Tue 11 Aug 13:39

You think this years kids are 20% better than last years?


Yeah. Some of them could be but they're not allowed to be if they come from a more deprived area. Fair?


No that is not fair either.
The most unfair thing about it was using an algorithm that penalised kids from deprived areas.
Should have been an average between prelim score and teachers assessment. Or just prelim score if that is higher.


Is it fair now then?
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 Re: SQA
Topic Originator: parforthecourse  
Date:   Tue 11 Aug 16:56

There is no perfect solution here.

A problem with this solution is that if faced with selecting people for interview, won't recruiters now just pick the 2020 cohort last, if they have the 'same' grades as those from other years?
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 Re: SQA
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Tue 11 Aug 17:14

I'd imagine employers will take more than purely 2020 exam results into account when selecting employees.

Personally, I'm relieved my sons' Design mark SHOULD be lifted to somewhere nearer his prelim & Feb progress report level (B or possibly even an A) rather than the D he was awarded by SQA



"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"

Post Edited (Tue 11 Aug 17:17)
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 Re: SQA
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 11 Aug 17:20

I agree there is no perfect solution and as someone alluded to on here there are some arguments that even when the exam based system is running as it should that it's not the optimal solution for measuring academic achievement either although that's a while different argument I guess.

I'm maybe leaning too heavily on my own experience but very few jobs I applied for really looked in any great detail about my Higher scores or my Standard Grades. The Highers tended to be more about Uni entry and the vast majority of applicants are on a year by year basis so this year's crop of high school graduates will mainly be in this year or next years intake for uni.

Going back to the job perspective all school leaver roles will tend to be up against either their year or a year or two ahead of them and I'd be surprised if there were that many jobs that would be reliant solely on an exam score where employers would or wouldnt grant an interview based on one or two exams alone.

I'm sure if you were to look for the scenario you have described it will occur in some places I just dont think (and I have nothing to back this up other than gut feeling) it will happen frequently enough that it makes the decision the wrong one vs the alternative.
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 Re: SQA
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 11 Aug 17:21

Quote:

da_no_1, Tue 11 Aug 17:14

I'd imagine employers will take more than purely 2020 exam results into account when selecting employees.

Personally, I'm relieved my sons' Design mark SHOULD be lifted to somewhere nearer his prelim & Feb progress report level (B or possibly even an A) rather than the D he was awarded by SQA


I was a bit more ling winded in saying the same thing
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 Re: SQA
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 11 Aug 18:12

da no 1 I hope all goes well for your son and Hats off to the SNP for standing up and admitting they were wrong ... I am really please for all pupils who worked so hard for their exams and my Granddaughter

We are in extraordinary times probably never experienced before in most of your lives There was no easy solution but I think common sense has prevailed
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