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 Detesting the Tories
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 10 Oct 12:35

How enormously has much of the UK media misjudged how the UK feels by trying to demonise Nicola Sturgeon for her comments? Are they unaware that the majority, even more-so in Scotland, agree with her?
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 Re: Detesting the Tories
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Mon 10 Oct 12:54

I do think it was important for Sturgeon to clarify that she didn`t deteste Conservative mp`s, msp`s or voters.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: Detesting the Tories
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Mon 10 Oct 13:00

I think some of their own are starting to detest the way the Party is heading

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Detesting the Tories
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 10 Oct 13:21

I do think she could have chosen her words more carefully but is it possible to separate the policies from those who support them?

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 Re: Detesting the Tories
Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy  
Date:   Mon 10 Oct 15:27

For me, it`s just hilarious (as someone who has studied economics) how economically illiterate the Tories and their followers are.

When it comes to the leaders: Ruth Davidson was a good speaker but would REALLY struggle to address detail if pressed, while Douglas Ross is simply way out of his depth.

Sturgeon is pretty savvy and so is Blackford but I think Joanna Cherry is potentially the most switched-on person in the SNP senior ranks and has the most leadership potential. Unfortunately, there are rabbid activists who are determined that she is transphobic because they simply don`t understand the legal point she was trying to make about legal conflicts.

In my experience, those who support the Tories are often older and have zero experience of having lived and worked in countries outside the UK, so find it very hard to take what I would call a "properly objective view" of the situation Scotland faces going forward.

For me, the SNP need to attack Labour and Lib Dems more because their ideology is simply impossible to implement under the current constitutional arrangement.

Gone on a bit of a tangent tbh but, as Jake has implied, the whole situation is a case of the UK media just frothing to try and get some dirt on the SNP. Seems though, they don`t understand the hatred of the Tories in Scotland - a good chunk of their vote in Scotland comes from English immigrants, many of whom move here because of the better public services and then vote Tory! 😂
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 Re: Detesting the Tories
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Mon 10 Oct 16:30

Spot on HJ .. An English couple I know moved up here and have milked the NHS dry .. When the first referendum was due to take place they proudly announced that they were moving all their money to an English Bank

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Detesting the Tories
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 10 Oct 16:46

Not every Tory will fit the stereotype of "I`m alright Jack", white, older, snobby etc. In fact, very few of them will be. The majority will be normal, hard-working individuals on bang average incomes.

The majority of no voters will be the same. They`re not any less Scottish in the same way no-one who voted against Brexit was any less British.
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 Re: Detesting the Tories
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash  
Date:   Mon 10 Oct 21:03

Detesting anybody because you disagree with their political opinions is pathological.

You wouldn’t divorce your missus or disown your kids because they see the world in a different way, unless you’re in a cult. Life is way too short for that.

A couple of MPs have been murdered in recent years, and many more have had death threats. Politicians need to tone down the rhetoric and stop playing to the gallery.

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 Re: Detesting the Tories
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 10 Oct 21:30

Detest is simply a strong dislike. I think it`s perfectly acceptable to detest a party like the current Tory party.

To detest someone or something is perfectly acceptable, and very typical. What isn`t acceptable is taking inappropriate action. The definition of "inappropriate" is obviously subjective though.
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 Re: Detesting the Tories
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Mon 10 Oct 21:48

I think it`s a little closer to hate than strong dislike, with the potentially more aggressive elements it has.

She knew what she was doing, but I think she would have been more wise to hate what they stand for rather than themselves.

That being said, I can understand why many Scottish people of a certain age might feel that way.
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 Re: Detesting the Tories
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 10 Oct 22:12

I`m of a far younger generation than the ones who lived through Thatcher. I always considered the Tories to be quite self-serving but also to some extent fair, sensible and frugal. That is not what we see with this Tory party. They`re simply mouth pieces for their masters. They serve a small group of individuals rather than their country.

Whilst I think the SNP have done a pretty crap job, their mistakes are a result of incompetence. The "mistakes" made by the Tories were a combination of selfishness and arrogance.

Though I`d argue the majority of politicians are mere puppets, whether they like it or not, of the British media. We don`t have state controlled media like most dictatorships, what we have is a media controlled state.
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 Re: Detesting the Tories
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 10 Oct 22:40

Which media control the SNP? What`s remarkable about their electoral success is that they have virtually no support in the mass media.

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 Re: Detesting the Tories
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash  
Date:   Mon 10 Oct 23:59

Maybe not direct support, but the UK broadcast media certainly give Nicola Sturgeon plenty of air time. During Covid, she was effectively making a daily Party Political Broadcast on the BBC (broadcast to the whole of the UK).

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 Re: Detesting the Tories
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Tue 11 Oct 01:03

Tad Allagash pops his head over the parapet!😲🤪🙈
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 Re: Detesting the Tories
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Tue 11 Oct 07:17

Ah Busspasspar, those pesky White Settlers using our NHS and voting No...

Then they hop over the border to buy their booze! The nerve of them!

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 Re: Detesting the Tories
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Tue 11 Oct 08:34

It is an inherently selfish ideology, completely lacking in any empathy for others which is deserving of derision.

Look at where they have guided us in the last twelve years. The notion that they`re good with the economy is the biggest lie they ever told (look at the evidence) and they have peddled more lies than truth during my lifetime.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Detesting the Tories
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Tue 11 Oct 09:34

`Maybe not direct support, but the UK broadcast media certainly give Nicola Sturgeon plenty of air time. During Covid, she was effectively making a daily Party Political Broadcast on the BBC (broadcast to the whole of the UK).`

She was speaking on behalf of the Scottish Government not as the leader of the SNP and she was subject to questions from a largely hostile media. The Westminster Government was given the same opportunity.

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 Re: Detesting the Tories
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 11 Oct 12:48

My point about the media is quite broad. They are the ones who control the narrative. For example, Nicola Sturgeon said she "detests the Tories" yet quite a few newspapers went with "detests Tories". It`s one word but completely changes the context.

We see this a lot. Sensationalist headlines that mask the reality.
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 Re: Detesting the Tories
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Tue 11 Oct 15:50

Given the Home Secretary`s disclosure about her "dreams" and "obsessions", I think it`s fair for anyone to say they detest what the Tories stand for - if you take that to mean the current, or indeed previous, cabinet.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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 Re: Detesting the Tories
Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower  
Date:   Wed 12 Oct 17:49

Several points to be made here:

Firstly there seems to be a lot more hatred about – I’m not sure if that is due to or exaggerated by social media. But senior politicians need to accept that half-hearted attempts to condemn bullying, intimidation and outright violence are insufficient. It reminds me of the Old Firm profiting from sectarianism for years then professing a disingenuous horror when it appears in their stadia. Labour too needs to take their share of the blame here as well – they demonised Tories for years and it has come back to bite them

I also thought it appalling that the likes of Billy Kay seem proud that they are raising children to hate people that they have never met. There seem to be double-standards at play – it’s OK to be prejudiced if you’re one of us, but not one of them.

As for Nicola I’m not sure if she misspoke – she claims that she was referring to policies not people but that was not what she said. I did wonder if it was a cunning ruse to have everyone talking about hategate instead of her latest education announcement, but I think it was just a gaffe. And then she mentions “love” in her speech.

I’m sure there are plenty of policy areas the SNP and the Tories are in agreement – it’s not so long since their “unofficial coalition” at Holyrood. So called Centre-right parties thrive in many countries – why should Scotland be different? Similarly, Socialism, Social Democracy and Liberalism are all concepts that transcend artificial boundaries - I’m not sure what immovable barriers there are to stop implementation, or even what “implementation” looks like.

As for economic literacy (or numeracy?) I don’t see many people with knowledge much beyond the basic. And to mention Nicola again – what was she on about saying a Scottish Central Bank could be a lender of last resort when adopting a sterlingisation policy?

Finally - as for the media. This is like referees - everyone seems convinced that referees are uniquely biased against their team, whllst favouring others. It`s the same in politics - people think the BBC is stuffed full of Tories or Lefties or Yoons or Nats dependent on their own political persuasion.

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