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 Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sat 13 May 11:29

A real vote winner!🤔💩

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/11/uk-will-have-to-raise-retirement-age-after-election-minister-says
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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Sat 13 May 11:47

Ive long accepted ill never see the pension. If i was able to stop contributing at this point, i would. Just funding the bloody Boomers at this point
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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sat 13 May 14:02

Quote:

Andrew283, Sat 13 May 11:47

Ive long accepted ill never see the pension. If i was able to stop contributing at this point, i would. Just funding the bloody Boomers at this point


And who are the boomers, living high on a £200pw state pension?
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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 13 May 20:24

Quote:

LochgellyAlbert, Sat 13 May 14:02

Quote:

Andrew283, Sat 13 May 11:47

Ive long accepted ill never see the pension. If i was able to stop contributing at this point, i would. Just funding the bloody Boomers at this point


And who are the boomers, living high on a £200pw state pension?


TBF, that`s £200 in their pocket as they paid off the mortgage years ago. My generation will still be paying off debts in retirement. The average pension in the UK is also closer £360p/w. The £200 (£203) is what anyone would get whether they paid into a pension or not.
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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sat 13 May 20:49

Bloody hell jake .. I`m being short changed .. can you please provide the evidence/claim where I should be getting closer to £360/week
I never paid my mortgage off because I was made redundant and switched from repayment/endowment to interest only .. like many in my position .. but hey ho it is what it is

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sat 13 May 21:23

Quote:

Buspasspar, Sat 13 May 20:49

Bloody hell jake .. I`m being short changed .. can you please provide the evidence/claim where I should be getting closer to £360/week
I never paid my mortgage off because I was made redundant and switched from repayment/endowment to interest only .. like many in my position .. but hey ho it is what it is


Oh for the days of endowment mortgages, 15% interest rate and £30 bank charges, for bounced direct debits!

And some OAP's ain't even getting £200 per week!

Post Edited (Sat 13 May 21:25)
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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 14 May 08:37

Here you go: Click here

Obviously that is average so some people will be below as well as above.
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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sun 14 May 09:10

Think you will find that "defined pension pot" was even in the vocabulary when most pensioners started working!
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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 14 May 09:23

Jake, what debts will your generation be paying off in retirement?

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Sun 14 May 15:29

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sun 14 May 09:23

Jake, what debts will your generation be paying off in retirement?


Student loan debt (because we were all told how important University is (lol)), over £1,000,000,000,000 in national debt, ever increasing rent because screw you trying to get on the property market now, the constant funding of services our parents and grandparents enjoy that we never will.

If 60+ age group wasn`t so conservative and right wing in their voting there would be significantly less bitterness aimed at them.
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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Sun 14 May 16:14

Quote:

jake89, Sat 13 May 20:24

Quote:

LochgellyAlbert, Sat 13 May 14:02

Quote:

Andrew283, Sat 13 May 11:47

Ive long accepted ill never see the pension. If i was able to stop contributing at this point, i would. Just funding the bloody Boomers at this point


And who are the boomers, living high on a £200pw state pension?


TBF, that`s £200 in their pocket as they paid off the mortgage years ago. My generation will still be paying off debts in retirement. The average pension in the UK is also closer £360p/w. The £200 (£203) is what anyone would get whether they paid into a pension or not.


You missed out the bit that says “That’s enough to get by, but not enough for a comfortable retirement.”

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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 14 May 16:59

"the constant funding of services our parents and grandparents enjoy that we never will."

"If 60+ age group wasn`t so conservative and right wing in their voting there would be significantly less bitterness aimed at them."

Deary me Andrew283 is the bitterness just from yourself ?
What about your Grandparents who had to sacrifice so much to try and give your parents a good life
What about the many who fought and died for the very same ideal
I never met my two Granddads for the above reason
I can assure you right now Andrew we never had benefits back then and I watched my braw Mam go hungry some days just to feed me and my Dad
I despise the Tory`s and what they are doing to our Country and poor folk



Post Edited (Sun 14 May 17:04)
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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 14 May 17:44

Just to be clear - I don`t blame the "boomers" for this mess. It`s down to years of government incompetence.

The debts of my generation in comparison to the boomer generation relate to things like student debts and house prices that are many times more expensive than they ever were during boomer working years.

House prices are probably the biggest burden. Prices have been out of control for years. We saw a drop during the banking crisis but they quickly recovered. There are billions (trillions?) sat in the ownership of older boomers. The only hope is that inheritance passes directly to grandchildren, but then what of those who have nothing? Introduce a new tax that will have a loophole so the rich don`t pay?
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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 14 May 18:38

Older Boomers .. well fek me gently jake
Lets just evict the auld kants and distribute the proceeds accordingly
Don`t forget Boris the Brave culled over 100,000 of us already during his covid strategy :-((

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 14 May 20:14

Sorry BP but you LA and the rest of your bourgeoisie ilk have been deemed to be members of the `haves`. Your protestations of `but I don`t vote Tory and I didn`t like Johnson` will fall on deaf ears when they are dragging you away into a damp cold cellar I`m afraid.
Some people weren`t willing to blame immigrants for their troubles and woes so the pensioners were substituted in to cover that base.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 14 May 20:46

By older boomers, I mean the 1940s ones. Basically, as time has gone on it`s just gotten worse.

It`s not the fault of that generation. Yes, some are utter gits who selfishly voted in an "I`m alright Jack" way, but so does the current generation.

The massive issue the UK has is that the children of today will work and pay taxes to effectively fund the care of their parents and grandparents. No big deal as their kids can do the same...except we have people living longer. That`s fine though as we can pay people to look after them and their taxes go back into the economy. Only issue is those people are hand to mouth thanks to low wages and high costs of living. So what? Well they then can`t afford to have kids. So fewer young people to grow up, pay taxes and contribute to the care of the elderly.

This was relieved to some extent by attracting immigrants to boost that younger generation. Unfortunately, we then decided we didn`t want Johnny Foreigner "coming over here, stealing our jobs.". So we voted for Brexit. But that`s fine as there`s 2m on the dole and they all jumped at the opportunity to wipe people`s backsides for less than you get paid to stack shelves in Aldi...

So, worry not, as each generation comes and goes that pension age will go up until they do away with it. I`m sure it`s no coincidence that workplace pensions have become mandatory rather than optional.
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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash  
Date:   Sun 14 May 20:52

‘House prices are probably the biggest burden’. Not in Fife though surely?

To be fair to the boomers - they didn’t have student debt, but they mostly didn’t have the opportunity to go to Uni either.

As far as property goes, you’ve also got to consider how high mortgage rates were in the 70’s/80’s, so houses weren’t quite as affordable as the prices would suggest. Also, most houses didn’t have double-glazing and central heating back in the day.

All generations have their challenges, and if you had a time machine, it wouldn’t be obvious which era you’d want to live in.

Young people are going to get old, and the old folk were young once, so I’m not a fan of the inter generation blame game.

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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 14 May 21:18

House prices in Fife are slap bang in the middle. Higher than places like Falkirk and Dundee, but lower than Edinburgh or East Renfrewshire. However, within Fife there are cheaper and more expensive areas. I think Lochgelly was the last place in Scotland to have houses under £100k. The average property price in Lochgelly is now £155k, or roughly 5.5x the average salary in Scotland.

Despite lower interest rates nowadays, the cost to buy when compared to wages is significantly higher than it was.

Talking of homes having double glazing is a bit silly. The comparable cost of single glazing in the 1950s and double-glazing in the 2020s is much the same, or maybe even cheaper with modern manufacturing techniques.

Something that`s quite interesting is how the gap between rich and poor has widened. There was obviously a difference between a boomer who went to university and one who didn`t. However, nowadays a millennial or gen Z who went to university will earn a lot more than someone who didn`t. Unfortunately, they`ll often have a load of debt to pay off before they feel the benefit!

If this forum still exists in 10 years I`ll come back with a "told you so" when it`s announced they`re doing away with the state pension.
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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 14 May 21:35

Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sun 14 May 20:14

Sorry BP but you LA and the rest of your bourgeoisie ilk have been deemed to be members of the `haves`. Your protestations of `but I don`t vote Tory and I didn`t like Johnson` will fall on deaf ears when they are dragging you away into a damp cold cellar I`m afraid.
Some people weren`t willing to blame immigrants for their troubles and woes so the pensioners were substituted in to cover that base.


Superb Towk
I can not believe the disdain and disrespect jake and andrew have on here just because we have lived through the the bad times and survived
Scrimped and scraped and to have the foresight to buy a property to leave something for our kids even when the rates were 15%
When my Dad passed he left me £300 that was his total savings ..He returned from the war a broken man in many more ways than financial
So I say from the bottom of my heart .. FEK OFF Andrew and Jake you both do not have a scoobie

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 14 May 21:51

pic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 14 May 21:18

House prices in Fife are slap bang in the middle. Higher than places like Falkirk and Dundee, but lower than Edinburgh or East Renfrewshire. However, within Fife there are cheaper and more expensive areas. I think Lochgelly was the last place in Scotland to have houses under £100k. The average property price in Lochgelly is now £155k, or roughly 5.5x the average salary in Scotland.

Despite lower interest rates nowadays, the cost to buy when compared to wages is significantly higher than it was.

Talking of homes having double glazing is a bit silly. The comparable cost of single glazing in the 1950s and double-glazing in the 2020s is much the same, or maybe even cheaper with modern manufacturing techniques.

Something that`s quite interesting is how the gap between rich and poor has widened. There was obviously a difference between a boomer who went to university and one who didn`t. However, nowadays a millennial or gen Z who went to university will earn a lot more than someone who didn`t. Unfortunately, they`ll often have a load of debt to pay off before they feel the benefit!

If this forum still exists in 10 years I`ll come back with a "told you so" when it`s announced they`re doing away with the state pension.



jake
Go and re read that post

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 14 May 22:02

Quote:

Buspasspar, Sun 14 May 21:51

pic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 14 May 21:18

House prices in Fife are slap bang in the middle. Higher than places like Falkirk and Dundee, but lower than Edinburgh or East Renfrewshire. However, within Fife there are cheaper and more expensive areas. I think Lochgelly was the last place in Scotland to have houses under £100k. The average property price in Lochgelly is now £155k, or roughly 5.5x the average salary in Scotland.

Despite lower interest rates nowadays, the cost to buy when compared to wages is significantly higher than it was.

Talking of homes having double glazing is a bit silly. The comparable cost of single glazing in the 1950s and double-glazing in the 2020s is much the same, or maybe even cheaper with modern manufacturing techniques.

Something that`s quite interesting is how the gap between rich and poor has widened. There was obviously a difference between a boomer who went to university and one who didn`t. However, nowadays a millennial or gen Z who went to university will earn a lot more than someone who didn`t. Unfortunately, they`ll often have a load of debt to pay off before they feel the benefit!

If this forum still exists in 10 years I`ll come back with a "told you so" when it`s announced they`re doing away with the state pension.



jake
Go and re read that post


TBH, given how you`ve ended it, I don`t think I`ll bother. I`ve in no way been disparaging towards you yet you`ve felt the need to let the expletives run wild.
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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sun 14 May 22:09

Ain`t replying just now, in sunny Tenerife having a drink on my hard earned pension!🍷🍸😎👍
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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash  
Date:   Sun 14 May 22:47

‘The average property price in Lochgelly is now £155k’.

The average isn’t relevant though if we’re talking affordability. The cheapest is a better measure, and the cheapest property in Lochgelly on Rightmove is offers over £70k. I wouldn’t call that ‘out of control’.

Could they be any cheaper? I don’t know - how much does it cost to build a house?

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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sun 14 May 23:53

Lochgelly prices have increased due to Lomond building houses at £250K plus, followed by Easy Living building more at about the same value.

3 bed detached bungalow currently sealing at £299K!!!😲
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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 15 May 00:00

I think you`re somewhat missing the point.

First of all, you might want to look at the photos of that property.

Secondly, we`re talking comparisons. That property is around 2.5x the average UK wage (that`s disregarding that it needs new carpets, re-plastered, painted/papered, new central heating, new bathroom and new kitchen...). The price of that property in say 1975 would be far less.

Perhaps it would make more sense to give a real example.

I bought my first flat in 2012 It cost me £120k. That flat sold recently for £200k. So in 11 years that flat has increased 67%. So, safe to assume wages have also risen 67% then? Not in the slightest.

Of course there are still affordable homes, but the price will be far higher than it was in the 70s and 80s. I worked bloody hard to get that first flat making all those sacrifices everyone seems to bleat on about (I think Netflix was still on DVDs back then anyway!). If that was me today then I likely wouldn`t be able to afford that flat no matter how much I saved. I`d be locked in paying ridiculous rent meaning I would need to wait for a lottery win or inheritance to buy. Any inheritance I get will go straight to the kids as they`ll need it if we keep seeing above inflation property price rises.

And that`s just housing prices. I remember when we`d joke about some of the posh bars in Edinburgh having the audacity to charge £5 for a pint. Nowadays that`s reasonable. And don`t start me on the price of a Freddo!

Obviously this is all my experience but a quick Google search will reveal how buggered Gen Z are. Though it`ll all be fine if they just cancel their Netflix 🙂
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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash  
Date:   Mon 15 May 00:36

‘First of all, you might want to look at the photos of that property.’

Yeah, to be fair I’d be expecting to see big Dion Dublin in there examining the structural problems. OK, so you couldn’t bring Meghan Markle back there (not that you’d want to) but for £70k you couldn’t complain.

It would indeed have been cheaper in 1975, but I’m guessing (before my time) it was harder to get a mortgage back then.

You’re right about Netflix. A Netflix subscription is pretty insignificant in comparison to the cost of an early 80’s Betamax VCR plus the fines for not rewinding your rented tapes😆

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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Mon 15 May 00:55

I am aware of somebody buying a 1 bedroom flat in Lochgelly, 2 years ago for 23K!
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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Mon 15 May 10:14

Salmond is bleating that us Yoons were conned in 2014.
The biggest attempted con was the utter lie that RUK would pay Scots pensions as well as their own post Indy.
You would need to be double zipped up the back of the heid like Andrew to fall for that!



Post Edited (Mon 15 May 10:15)
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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Mon 15 May 10:51

Pretty sure you’ve said similar before (in a very similar fashion), but was it not referencing all the pension contributions that have been made by everyone, to the uk pot prior to the point of independence?
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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Mon 15 May 10:54

Quote:

DBP, Mon 15 May 10:51

Pretty sure you’ve said similar before (in a very similar fashion), but was it not referencing all the pension contributions that have been made by everyone, to the uk pot prior to the point of independence?


This was exactly it, but our resident muppet above won`t admit that.
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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Mon 15 May 11:50

National insurance fund in surplus just now, the savings on State Pension due to the Covid cull!
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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Mon 15 May 12:03

Quote:

LochgellyAlbert, Mon 15 May 11:50

National insurance fund in surplus just now, the savings on State Pension due to the Covid cull!


Elderly people in being more susceptible to diseases shocker... Covid was crap for everyone. I went from trying to save for a house to being forcibly made redundant
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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Mon 15 May 13:27

There is no pension “pot”. Just get that into your thick heids…

The current state pension to the pensioners of today is paid out of current taxation/borrowing. The workers of today will receive theirs in turn on the same basis, and hopefully before they snuff it.

The idea that English, Welsh and NI taxpayers will chip into paying an Indy Scotland ie a foreign country’s pensions is beyond risible



Post Edited (Mon 15 May 13:29)
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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 15 May 13:52

It`s interesting that you say that today`s pensions can be paid out of borrowing. That`s a facility that isn`t available to Scotland as part of the UK but it would be if it were independent.

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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash  
Date:   Mon 15 May 14:02

wee eck wrote:

> It`s interesting that you say that today`s pensions can be paid
> out of borrowing. That`s a facility that isn`t available to
> Scotland as part of the UK but it would be if it were
> independent.
>
>

In what currency would would we be borrowing, and in what currency would the pensions be paid?

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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 15 May 14:54

It sometimes seems as if the Union is set up in a way that tries to deliberately frustrate any aspirations to independence.

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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Mon 15 May 16:06

https://www.lovemoney.com/news/144834/state-pension-underpayments-errors-2023
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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Mon 15 May 16:26

Quote:

Parboiled, Mon 15 May 13:27

There is no pension “pot”. Just get that into your thick heids…

The current state pension to the pensioners of today is paid out of current taxation/borrowing. The workers of today will receive theirs in turn on the same basis, and hopefully before they snuff it.

The idea that English, Welsh and NI taxpayers will chip into paying an Indy Scotland ie a foreign country’s pensions is beyond risible



https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1124933/Great_Britain_National_Insurance_Fund_Account_-_2021_to_2022.pdf

Balance to March 22, all you thick heads!🤔😎
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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Mon 15 May 17:15

Section 5. Financial Performance

“NI scheme is financed on a pay as you go basis with contribution rates broadly set to meet the expected benefits expenditure in that year.”
Repeat - in that year.

there is no pot..on your retirement there isn’t thirty or forty years of your contributions sitting there to fund your pension. There isn’t anything.

As for borrowing, an Indy Scotland could perhaps do so at a rate determined by the market.

As for currency, according to nitwit MSP Emma Harper, we wouldn’t need one as everyone uses plastic!

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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 15 May 17:36

It seems odd to say there is no `pot` when these accounts show a balance of £57 billion. An annual transfer seems to be made to NI. I`m not sure why they are treated differently. The accounts don`t show how much is collected and how much is paid in the other three nations of the UK.

Of course taxpayers in an independent Scotland would no longer be required to contribute to this rUK pot.

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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash  
Date:   Mon 15 May 17:41

If I read that correctly, there’s about 6 month’s worth in that account- £57 billion against annual outgoings of £111 billion.

The current practice is to keep at balance of at least two months’ worth (16.67% of annual expenditure).

To be fair to LA, I don’t think he said there was a pot.

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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Mon 15 May 18:19

http://www.singernet.info/southwarktv/spag/spagNIFund.asp
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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 15 May 18:49

I was commenting on Parboiled`s comment that there was no `pot`. The link provided by LA in his last post demonstrates how political the issue of NI has become and how meaningless the balance is.

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 Re: Keep working folks!
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Tue 16 May 11:30

Indeed Eck an Indy Scotland would have its very own State Pension scheme, funded entirely by ourselves.
The zoomers who think the RUK will continue to pay for Scots pensions which are extant at the that point will be in for a rude shock.
However, although Holyrood couldn’t organise a bonk in a knocking shop that whole scenario is too ludicrous to worry about

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