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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Wed 27 Sep 18:34
It would be the simplest thing in the world for him to prove he`s alive. All he need say is, "As you can see, I survived the missile strike on our Fleet headquarters in Sevastopol, last Friday, on September 22nd."
As yet I haven`t found any evidence of him referring to that strike. Has anyone else?
If he doesn`t refer to it, what reason could there be, except that he`s potted heid.
Post Edited (Wed 27 Sep 19:21)
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 27 Sep 19:31
He was posting on the Food forum just yesterday.
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Wed 27 Sep 20:59
😄 V.G. Jake. But I don`t think that was Sokolov - I think it was just some chancer trying to pass off a big batch of `Sokolov`potted heid that suddenly came his way, as Beluga caviar from the Black Sea.
Post Edited (Wed 27 Sep 21:03)
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Wed 27 Sep 23:53
So he`s dead? And Ukraine is winning the war? Surrender is imminent.
NATO has won. Let`s rejoice, as Maggie Thatcher said back in the day.
sammer
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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Thu 28 Sep 08:52
I mind potted meat as a school dinner delicacy back in the early sixties.
It wobbled on the plates and was served with mashed potato. So was everything else apart from watery soup and puddings of a dubious appearance. I think even macaroni came with mash.
There were only two choices back then, take it or leave it...seeing the kids of today getting served buffet style with a range of options and even chips fair makes me envious!
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Thu 28 Sep 18:00
I just wonder why they bothered posting those videos. Their purpose was to prove Sokolov lives, yeh? If he does, he could easily say something incontrivertible. So why doesn`t he? Doesn`t say much for the Kremlin`s view of their followers that they expect them to lap up such crud.
Potted heid was fab. I loved it with salad cream. Haven`t had it for many years.
Post Edited (Thu 28 Sep 18:59)
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Topic Originator: parsfan
Date: Thu 28 Sep 20:40
Quote:
sammer, Wed 27 Sep 23:53
So he`s dead? And Ukraine is winning the war? Surrender is imminent.
NATO has won. Let`s rejoice, as Maggie Thatcher said back in the day.
That`s rich coming from someone supporting the guys who packed their dress uniforms going into battle 18 months ago.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Thu 28 Sep 23:32
Parsfan,
The Canadian Parliament is looking for a speaker. Maybe you should apply.
sammer
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Topic Originator: widtink
Date: Thu 28 Sep 23:54
Was talking to my Russian friend who now lives and works here about this last night.
He`s neither pro or anti Putin (says it`s safer to stay neutral lol)
His response was that he`s alive, the idea that Black Sea HQ would be used as HQ during this war when its within reach of Storm Shadow etc is just ludicrous. Loads of command bunkers in Crimea built to withstand nuclear strikes etc Ukraine basically destroyed/damaged a listed building .
Admin
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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Fri 29 Sep 06:19
I would reckon the guy is injured at the very least. As OAUTP said, the easiest way to embarrass the Ukrainians here would be for him to post a video on Telegram with today`s newspaper and state that he survived the attack or wasn`t there or whatever. The reason they probably haven`t done so is because of the sheer embarrassment that they`re starting to lose at sea to a country that doesn`t have a navy to speak of. The Black Sea fleet was largely withdrawn to Novorossiysk when the Moskva was sunk and has been sat there since.
On the ground, the Russians have lost about 2100 tanks and it is thought that they have only 1400 operational T-72s, T-80s and T-90s left in total. Put on top of that the 1000s of armoured personnel carries that have been destroyed and the 500+ tanks that have been captured by the Ukrainians and it makes for grim reading. The Russians can only produce about 250 per year at their two tank factories and the tanks currently in service are reliant on Chinese spare parts and, well, many know that Mainland Chinese products are subject to the "happy with crappy" level of quality control. By comparison, of the 140 Leopard IIs and Challenger IIs in Ukraine, only 9 have been put out of action (8 Leopards and 1 challenger) and of those only 2 Leopards were damaged beyond repair and the rest are in Poland being repaired. Curious to see how the M1 Abrams gets on as well as the Swedish Stridsvagn 122 (which is basically a license-built LII with better armour and more modern targeting system).
As for the state of the War, Russian casualties standing at about 300,000 with about 120k of those deaths. Put on top of that that the Russian have very few professional Units left and some sources are saying that there are none in reserve.
The Ukrainian objective is to basically destroy the Russian armed forces to the greatest extent possible while minimising their own casualties. And they are being very successful in this. As has been seen before, the Russians will hold on for a good while and then it`ll suddenly collapse as it did in the North, in Kharkiv and then in Kherson. At this point we`ll start to see gains in terms of land reclaimed. And there is also the change in balance of air power yet to come when the F16s (and potentially Gripens & Eurofighters) come into play.
All in all, absolutely grim reading when you think that this was all done for some sad wee gangster to distract the population from growing anti-corruption sentiment. Does Putin really reckon the Ukrainians will actually submit to Russia after all of this?
Widtink - Your friend suffers the same thing as many Russians - quite aware that the country is corrupt as feck but there`s very little that they can do to change the status quo. Russian propaganda though is very adept at getting people to think along the lines of "Oh, both sides are not great, so I`ll just be neutral."
Post Edited (Fri 29 Sep 06:22)
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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Fri 29 Sep 06:34
Just as an addendum, this young Russian is quite adept at going through the various telegram channels and compiling a near-daily summary of the happenings in the war, so worth checking out. This was yesterday`s summary:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4t6ynrjEr_0
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Fri 29 Sep 11:27
Hi Hurricane, great posts, well done.
I think if Sokolov was just injured it would be logical for the Russians to show him injured, like "A message from our brave Fleet Commander". Would they really not have recognised the value of that as a morale booster?
OK, a wee bit of investigation.
Article from the Telegraph, 27 Sep 2023*:
`Top military honours awarded to Russia’s Black Sea Fleet despite embarrassing front-line retreat`
It shows this picture:
The caption is:
`Admiral Viktor Sokolov praised the Black Sea Fleet for `fulfilling the tasks set by the command confidently and successfully CREDIT: Alexey Pavlishak/Reuters`
Reverse image search on Tineye.com:
First found on www.alamy.com OCTOBER 5 2022
Why is the Telegraph using an old photo to suggest Sokolov was presenting medals this week?
*https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/09/27/russia-black-sea-fleet-ukraine-viktor-sokolov-retreat-war/
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Fri 29 Sep 12:24
Investigation contd:
"Russia released a video Tuesday [Sep 26] purporting to show the admiral attending a meeting earlier in the day."
Looks like this is from that video:
Caption:
`Mr Sokolov (pictured left) appeared at a military conference via video link - though it is not clear when the footage was taken`
"In the video clip, Russian Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu can be seen discussing a drill he said Russia’s Pacific Fleet had completed a day earlier. An officer who appears to be Sokolov is seen on a video screen, seemingly from another location, but does not speak.
The video has been edited to show the fleet commander’s presence multiple times at the meeting, possibly to offer evidence that he is still alive. The date Sept. 26 is visible on the clip, and it matches the date in the video’s metadata." (1)
PROOF! SOKOLOV LIVES!?
Not necessarily. I`ve been googling, and it turns out metadata can be changed.
I gotta go out now - wife calling for her regular outing. I can`t deny her, us old codgers gotta make the most of our health while we`ve still got some.
-----------------------------------------------------
(1) https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2023/09/27/world/politics/ukraine-russian-admiral-questions/
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Topic Originator: parsfan
Date: Fri 29 Sep 23:32
Quote:
sammer, Thu 28 Sep 23:32
Parsfan,
The Canadian Parliament is looking for a speaker. Maybe you should apply.
Let me see if I`ve got this straight. You`re accusing me of being a Nazi, so I would be a good replacement someone who resigned for being a Nazi.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Sat 30 Sep 00:15
No, I was not seriously suggesting anything of the sort. Poor Mr. Rota, former Speaker of the Canadian Parliament, has taken the hit for those that were far more aware of who the guest of honour to greet President Zelensky actually was. Rota will not go unrewarded for his sacrifice needless to say.
The story about troops Russian troops packing their dress uniforms has all the hallmarks of NATO propaganda which is standard in any war. If you buy that story then you probably believe that Russian troops mutinied and were throwing their officers under tanks from week one. That Russia was running out of munitions last April. There’s been plenty stuff like that since and Russia responds in kind. There are reports of a Bundeswehr tank ‘technician’ being rescued from a Leopard tank but he has yet to surface on media here. Other reports claim 10,000 Ukrainian soldiers have surrendered since the counter offensive began in June but these numbers are suspiciously rounded, and no more or less credible than the NATO ones offered up by the MOD and dutifully reported above by Hurricane Jimmy.
All anyone can do is find media sources that over the last 18 months have proved to be reasonably reliable and keep looking out for some other ones.
sammer
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Sat 30 Sep 03:19
Sorry these pictures are so small but I`ve provided hot links for them, so that if you`re interested you can look at the websites yourself.
Comments have been made about the image released by Pravda on Sep 26, of Sokolov at a video-linked meeting. It`s said that his chair back looks different to those of others attending the meeting. It does, it looks like a pillow (He`s directly under the big picture of the man conducting the meeting):
https://english.pravda.ru/news/russia/157754-russian_admiral_commander/
But here`s a picture released by russian.rt.com on Sep 5 2023, showing Sokolov (at extreme top right) at an earlier video-linked meeting:
In this picture, his chair back also looks like a pillow:
https://www.scmp.com/news/world/europe/article/3233573/russias-defence-chief-sergei-shoigu-says-66000-ukrainians-killed-counteroffensive
What can be drawn from that? He likes to sit with a pillow. Or, is it possible that the pictures of him at the meeting said to prove he survived the attack of Sep 22, are from an earlier meeting such as this one, dating from, or about, Sep 5? I`ve compared the folds in the `pillows`in both of the above images. Am I exaggerating in thinking they`re identical, and that, on the left side of the pictures the flags appear to be in identical positions, showing precisely the same parts, i.e. they look exactly the same in the picture from 5 Sep and from picture claimed to be Sep 26?(Maybe he sits in exactly the same place and the flags are never disturbed. Maybe.)
Here`s another, clearer version of the first picture:
https://slobodnadalmacija.hr/vijesti/svijet/ukrajinci-ubili-smo-sefa-crnomorske-flote-rusi-pogledajte-malo-bolje-tko-je-sve-kraj-sojgua-1325744
Post Edited (Sat 30 Sep 13:25)
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Sat 30 Sep 10:57
This is a good source for the number of Russian officers killed in Ukraine.
They only post confirmed deaths, either through official announcements by Russia or obituary posts on Russian social media.
https://x.com/KilledInUkraine?t=3CdOfkzWi0pVxoF-j-WAdg&s=09
So far 2895 officers confirmed dead.
Moscow claims only 6000 Russians in total killed, so almost half those killed would be officers if the figure they quote were to be believed.
I expect Sokolov to be added to the list soon.
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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Sat 30 Sep 11:05
Funnily enough, these supposedly "unreliable" figures that I quote are from Reuters who are widely regarded as the most respected news outlet in the world, largely due to their correspondent network. Even Al Jazeera who cannot simply be dismissed as "another Western source" use Reuters for a large proportion of their stories. Both Reuters and Al Jazeera have quite a substantial number of Russians working for them, but I guess in Sammer`s Moscow-Petersburg bubble, its only the likes of RT and Sputnik that are "reliable".
The genuinely sad thing is that the reason that Sammer probably thinks these casualty figures are unreliable is because Russia is refusing to repatriate vast swathes of their dead, mainly for "face-saving" purposes and these young lads` bodies are sitting rotting in Ukraine on the battlefield, in pits and in railway trucks. Then there`s also the fact that the majority of them are from rural Russia rather than the two major metropolitan areas, which is again intentional on the part of the Kremlin to keep a stranglehold on power. Of course though, the Kremlin are not capable of propaganda...
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Sat 30 Sep 16:24
HJ’s casualty figures do not come direct from Reuters. They come from an even more reputable source: ‘unnamed US officials` !!!
Reuters merely did its duty to report them.
‘’Aug 18 (Reuters) - The number of Ukrainian and Russian troops killed or wounded since the war in Ukraine began in February 2022 is nearing 500,000, the New York Times reported on Friday, citing unnamed U.S. officials……
....Russia`s military casualties are approaching 300,000, including as many as 120,000 deaths and 170,000 to 180,000 injuries, the newspaper reported. Ukrainian deaths were close to 70,000, with 100,000 to 120,000 wounded, it added.’’
Someone who routinely accuses others of living ‘in a bubble’ can surely do better than that. Citing the echo chamber of Pentagon/MOD/NYT/The Daily Telegraph as reliable sources would see the claims laughed out of a Media Studies foundation course.
sammer
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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Sat 30 Sep 18:53
Oh dear Sammer, absolute desperation once again. But that`s not a surprise!
Why cite Reuters when you`re copy and pasting from this Al Jazeera article:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/8/19/russia-ukraine-war-list-of-key-events-day-542
Try again.
Honestly, the desperation to defend Putin and the hatred of "Western Imperialism" and love of Authoritarian Imperialism would be quite funny if it wasn`t for those young Russians whose senseless deaths you clearly advocate!
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Sat 30 Sep 23:42
Oh dear. HJ has now abandoned his attempt to mislead you with a false claim of a Reuters report which was nothing of the sort. He was caught out is now trying another line. The Reuters Report has been put down the memory hole. Forget that please and let’s look at something else.
HJ’s next line is actually weaker than his first. Al Jazeera is well known to me from my time in Qatar (yes, I was ventured outside the bubble) and I actually spoke to a journalist who had interviewed Osama Bin Laden. Nothing in the Al Jazeera article he links has been sourced outside the Pentagon. It’s just NATO babble. It’s worthless as evidence in any court of world opinion. I’m gravitating towards the view that HJ, who was never accredited as a teacher in Scotland, is not very bright.
That world opinion at the moment in 75/25 in favour of Russia confronting NATO. It’s also against war of course. I’m happy to be part of that body of world opinion.
sammer
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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Sun 1 Oct 01:19
Oh, the old authoritarian shill attempt at projection. Love it.
So you phoned this guy out of your phone book up yesterday to "disprove" a post on dafc.net? That`s the best bluff yet. You`re seriously that bothered about losing face? I guess your time in China rubbed off on you!
I`m actually quite familiar with Al Jazeera as well from my own time in Qatar. Generally speaking they are quite reliable and have a good correspondent network but they are funded by the Qatari regime.
If these figures are so inaccurate and you`re in the know, why not share what you believe the true death tolls to be? Can your pal at Al Jazeera not tell you the proper figures?
Funnily enough, I am actually against the war too. It won`t stop however until the Russians withdraw from Ukraine`s internationally recognised territory.
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Sun 1 Oct 02:52
I enlarged those images of Sokolov, one from a meeting before the attack on the Russian Black Sea HQ in Crimea, and one said to be after it. I wanted to paste them side by side to let others see. I tried but wasn`t able to.
My conclusion is that the pictures are very similar, but I doubt if they are from the same meeting. Nevertheless, having discovered that metadata can be faked, and there being no simple incontrivertible statement by Sokolov still seem to be good reasons to think he`s probably dead.
However, it highlights to me how easy it is to think you have a very good reason for believing something (in this case no obvious statement from Sokolov) - but ideas, even what seem to be good ones, are not evidence.
Similarly as widtink posted (at Thu 28 Sep, 23:54) - his Russian friend thinks Sokolov is alive, because it would be `ludicrous` to use such a building in range of Ukrainian missiles. That`s not a bad idea, but it`s not evidence either. (And why not use a beautiful building as befits your status, in a place that, under Russian control and of such importance should be very well defended. Debates like that, over ideas, can go on without end.)
And as sammer posted, he thinks he knows how to recognise "reasonably reliable sources." But that is still very much a matter of choice based on ideas and allegiances, rather than evidence. The difference between Western and Russian accounts is very often total contradiction, and you can either choose, or try to remain open about some things.
I take it, sammer, you mean world opinion is against a bigger war, not against Russia`s war on Ukraine. From where I sit, those with allegiances to Ukraine are against the war in Ukraine, and those with allegiances to Russia, might be for it. Who knows world opinion. Opinion of leaders, or general populations? And why would they be in favour of Russia confronting NATO? Because they`re told to?
I suppose you maybe say Ukraine isn`t NATO, so NATO should eff off out of it. Ukraine isn`t Russia either, so the solution is simple. They can both eff off out of it. Then Ukraine can decide what it wants - to be neutral, Russian, or NATO.
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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Sun 1 Oct 11:05
Sammer - If you actually want the story behind my teaching, I trained at Durham Uni in England and registered in Scotland afterward. I then taught at an international school in Sweden, before receiving my Lärarlegitimation after I completed my Swedish language certificate. Simply put, I am a legitimised teacher in both Scotland and Sweden but have never taught in the former. So, as per many things, what you say is simply incorrect. Try again.
Get your contact at Al Jazeera to drop me an email (you`ll find it in my profile) clarifying the sources of that article above and I`ll post the screenshot on here.
OAUTP - You`re right that Metadata can be traced but similarly it is very easy to trace changes made to it as there is always a log of file conversions, copies and creations. Actually quite a big part of journalistic verification and military intelligence work.
Widtink/his friend definitely make a reasonable point. The question in my mind though would be why they targeted the building when they did? The reason being that they`ve had Storm Shadow missiles for a good few months and so could simply have destroyed the building for symbolic purposes already had they wished. If memory serves correctly, there were only 2-300 storm shadows supplied to Ukraine and so they have to be selective in their deployment of them. In other words, there must have been some reason behind the targeting.
From the Russian perspective, would it not be an embarrassment to admit that couldn`t or have failed to defend one of their highest ranking naval officers? From a military officer`s perspective, would it not also be a major embarrassment to be seen to be scared of entering the HQ building of the division you are expected to command? Not sure exactly what Sokolov`s reputation as an officer is but having a "degree of swagger" would not surprise me.
Again though, if he is still alive, it makes no sense for the Russians to keep it quiet.
Tbh, I wouldn`t even try to reason Sammer`s logic as - based on my experience of Russia and China among others - is very typical of those in a certain age group in authoritarian countries who have not grown up in the information age and thus struggle to distinguish sources. Pretty much everything he writes is parroting Russian or Chinese state media about "NATO involvement", "de-dollarisation" etc and then he simply accuses others of doing the same but with Western Sources. You could put him in a room with young Russians (the majority of whom are anti-Putin and know the score) and he`d still be determined he`s right. Whenever you ask him to back his assertions with Russian sources, he never does despite being well aware that the Google translate function is pretty solid.
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Sun 1 Oct 16:35
Al Jazeera is a reputable enough newspaper in my eyes and has sometimes pleasantly surprised me with its take on foreign politics. But any news outlet is under the influence of its government as is obviously the case with say the BBC or TASS, and that extends to a lesser degree to a news agency like Reuters which is part funded by western governments.
The Al Jazeera journalist I met was a Spaniard if I recall correctly who had managed to obtain an interview with Osama bin Laden in some cloak and dagger arrangement. He was jailed by the Spanish authorities who claimed he had been a courier for money and messages on behalf of Al Queda (this was back at the time of Bush’s ‘War against Terror’ which Spain had signed up for.) Al Jazeera campaigned for his release which was eventually granted but the Qatari regime is well aware it houses an American base in the north of the country and has to juggle its freedom of speech against that reality.
I won’t become involved in a bidding war as regards casualties in the Ukraine conflict since agreed figures will only emerge many years from now. However the figures proposed by the Pentagon are in sharp contrast with those blurted out by Ursula van der Leyen earlier this year , and those sourced by CNN from (our old friend) ‘anonymous sources’ from within the Ukrainian military.
I was in a bar room last night conversing with a number of Russians in their 20s. Given that I live in Moscow, a city with double the population of Sweden, it is obviously much easier for me to do this than it is for HJ. They grasp the reality that far from stopping conflict, any Russian withdrawal from Crimea or the Donbas would simply leave the field open for the Azov brigade and its adherents to flood back into territory they stole away from like thieves in the night when confronted by the Russian military. Sporting their Bandera swastikas they could then get back to their favoured trade of ethnically cleansing the area of anyone holding Russian affiliation (which is the majority) in keeping with Zelensky’s declared aim to ‘kick the Russians out of Crimea.’ Any such bloodbath would receive limited coverage in western media.
Putin remains the Head of the Russian state: (Biden’s ‘regime change’ is taking a bit longer than anticipated.)The pro-war Slovak coalition government has just been voted out of office. Few would bet against any of Biden, Sunak, Macron or Scholz suffering the same fate if elections were held tomorrow.
sammer
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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Sun 1 Oct 20:34
Sammer - As I said, you stated with absolute certainty that those figures were straight from the Pentagon. So get your Al-Jazeera contact to drop me a message regarding the sources of that article from their AJZ domain email address and I`ll post the screenshot on here.
We`re back to the Bandera and "Nazis everywhere" thing? What a surprise! I found this to be quite a good summary of Putin`s claims: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxM1TplHlos.
So you have a problem with source of news funded by Governments but you parrot the "NATO involvement" and "de-dollarisation" on here that are being peddled by the likes of RT, Sputnik, Xinhua and CGTN? That certainly doesn`t add up.
Very typical of you to try and slink away from the death toll. If memory serves correctly, the Kremlin has only acknowledged about 6000 - why is that? BBC Russian Service (which is run by Russians) has identified at least 25,000 through newpapers and social media posts (mainly from VK).
As for Russians being the majority in Ukrainian territory, that has only ever been the case in Crimea. The pre-war population of ethnic Russians in Ukraine was only 17%, while 31% counted Russian as their first language. Even in Luhansk and Donetsk the Russians only hit about 40% of the population. Odessa has more Russians than Kherson and Zaporizhzhia, which Russia has supposedly "annexed", which is pretty laughable. The following actually explains the demographics and political divides pretty well:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians_in_Ukraine
I was waiting for you to mention Slovakia. Fico won with 23.7% of the vote and will need coalition partners. I guess in the Russian media that means that Slovakia is now pro-Russia?
Macron, I`d be happy to see the back of but I doubt that would make a difference to France`s position on Ukraine. Scholz would likely be replaced by the CDU/CSU coalition again who are desperate to make up for Merkel`s glaring error on Russia. Having just been in the US, a Republican president is most likely to be Nikki Haley who has stated very clearly "Supporting Ukraine is in the National Interest", which is an interesting take. For the US, $75Bn (so far) is an extremely small price to pay to destroy the military capacity of one of their main geopolitical "threats".
When it comes to Putin staying in the Kremlin, everybody knows he`s tinkered with the constitution to allow himself to do so. Was it not 2036 that was the latest timeframe from his legal tinkerings? Pretty sure as well that I read he is banning anyone under 50 from standing against him so that he doesn`t look too old!
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Sun 1 Oct 21:06
When sammer says the young Russians he conversed with grasp the reality of what would happen were Russian forces to withdraw from Donbas - what he means is that those young Russians have their own - shall we say, not altogether objective - ideas about what would happen.
Hell no, young Russians in a Moscow bar, ones that fraternise with sammer,
- they just gotta be the best sources for the` reality`of what could happen in Donbas, haven`t they?
The reality is that if the Russians withdrew from Ukraine, the conflict between Russia and Ukraine would end. Then what? Another conflict might or might not ensue in Donbas, but Ukrainians in other regions, and a great many Russians involved in the current war would have peace, and there`d be no threat of escalation/ nukes/ WW3.
So, how to de-escalate the Russian war on Ukraine? Russians go home.
O dear that wouldn`t do. World opinion is `in favour of Russia confronting NATO.` Who says? Sammer of course - a humble man who just can`t help having a finger on the pulse of world opinion! But how`s he got time for dotnet, when all the world leaders and billions of citizens are bombarding him with emails, demanding he puts their opinion on here!
Post Edited (Sun 01 Oct 21:20)
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Sun 1 Oct 21:43
I referred to young Russians since the topic was introduced by HJ, not me. I did so in order to show that I encounter on a weekly basis more young Russians than he does, possibly has in his entire life, and can therefore question his claims that they are `anti-Putin.` Everyone is free to prefer his evidence or mine, of course.
`The reality is that if the Russians withdrew from Ukraine, the conflict between Russia and Ukraine would end.`
No reality recognised by man, I`m afraid. The young Russians at least know their history. There were around 14,000 deaths in the Donbas region from 2014. Just a statistic, but put that in the context of a much longer conflict in Northern Ireland from 1969 to the mid 1990s, where `only` 4,000 were killed. OAUTP`s `solution` sounds as naive as the simplistic `Troops Out` slogan I heard in respect of NI during these years from student Trotskyites. Ethnic cleansing is not pretty.
Nikki Haley is a new one on me, but I do know Kristoll who voiced much the same sentiment. That the Ukraine war was `a good investment` for the USA since it weakened Russia and cost nothing in terms of troops being killed. (Profits to the MIC which helps fund US politics not withstanding.)The problem with this Nord Stream 2 logic is that the European worm might start to turn since they are the ones taking the hit. Polish elections are up next so we will see what transpires. (Ukrainian elections suspended due to circumstances.)
sammer
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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Sun 1 Oct 23:49
Aye, it`s yet another post of empty platitudes rather than actually addressing the plethora of false statements that you`ve made.
Nothing to say about the death figures?
Nothing to say about the demographics of the Ukrainian Oblasts?
Nothing to say about the largely irrelevant claims of Ukrainian Nazism?
Nothing to say about Putin tinkering with the Russian constitution?
Nothing to say about the sources of your information on "de-dollarisation" etc?
The above are things that you have repeatedly avoided addressing in your posts.
The young Russians you speak of "knowing their history" have probably been fed the same propaganda that you spout on here. And it`s quite obvious to everyone that your knowledge is either severely lacking or you`re being very selective about what you actually post? Which is it? I worked with Russians in research groups in Germany and Sweden and they were from St Petersburg, Yekatrineburg, Chelyabinsk and Omsk. Another in my group in Heidelberg was a Russian-Estonian from Narva. I also know a Russian in Japan who is from Vladivostok and another in Hong Kong who is from Moscow, but ethnically Armenian. So yeah, you might encounter young Moscovites daily, but I have actually have contact with a number of folk from across Russia. Their opinions on the current situation are in stark contrast to yours.
If you want to see the opinions of young Russians, you can pop over to YouTube and watch the likes of NFKRZ, The Russian Dude or alternatively go to 1420 which is one of the numerous street interview channels. More often that not, younger Russians will say "It`s dangerous to answer such questions". And we all know what that means!
Let`s be clear: What we`re seeing now is the opening stages of the collapse of Putin`s Russia. With the resources that Russia has, had the country been effectively managed without the rampant corruption then it would be a powerhouse economy by now, and at least demonstrate a GDP comparable to Poland, if not greater. This issue was coming to the fore prior to February 2022 and was likely a big factor, if not the prime factor, in Putin starting this war.
Some might argue that China can support Russia, but the Chinese economy is going into decline and on the verge of a collapse due to the housing bubble. Couple this with the crippling demographic problem, what would appear to be a power struggle at the top of the CCP and the technological gulf then I don`t think the democratic nations have much to worry about. India will be the next superpower unless there is a rapid change of the Chinese political system.
At the end of all of this, the world will look at Putin as another dictator who stained one of the world`s great cultures like Hitler, Stalin and Mao before him.
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Mon 2 Oct 00:29
Sammer dodges the point completely (What - again? - You don`t say!)
OK, my comment could be ambiguous. But not really when seen in context.
But I`ll make it clearer.
"The reality is that, if the Russians withdrew from Ukraine entirely, the wider conflict, in which the whole of Ukraine is under attack from Russia, would end. Then what? Another conflict might ensue, limited to Russians and Ukrainians fighting in Donbas."
In other words conflict on a scale similar to what was taking place before the invasion. Simple innit. Ain`t no use trying to fudge it.
Like I said, Russia and NATO can both eff off out of Ukraine. Then Ukraine can decide what it wants - to be neutral, Russian, or NATO.
Trouble is, Russia won`t allow such a choice. The only choice they offer is for Ukraine to become neutral, or Russian. Nail on head.
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Mon 2 Oct 00:45
Yeh HJ, the world is changing. It`d be interesting to look back in 20 years and see what became of the current situation. You could well be right:
"At the end of all of this, the world will look at Putin as another dictator who stained one of the world`s great cultures like Hitler, Stalin and Mao before him."
What strikes me is that if Russia just got on with developing its resources, like you say - it could and should have been a powerhouse economy. It`s the biggest country in the world, with massive resources. Why do they bother with trying to grab chunks of Ukraine?
I wonder if in future, China becomes sufficiently nuke-capable, it might fancy a big chunk of Russia. I guess it`s not very strong in military terms, or it might be making moves already, while Russian forces are diverted to Europe. You just have to look at the map, and consider the population of China (1,412) million compared to the population of Russia (143 million). Something`s gotta give some day.
Post Edited (Mon 02 Oct 00:46)
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Mon 2 Oct 23:04
I’m not sure what my false statements were but I’ll deal briefly with the points highlighted.
`Nothing to say about the death figures?`
Casualty figures are known only to the Russian and Ukrainian military who will obviously publish what suits them. Anything else is just guesswork, some it by experienced former military personnel which probably makes it intelligent guesswork. The recent plea by President Zelensky to western nations to send back able bodied Ukrainians who had ‘dodged the draft’ indicates a manpower problem.
`Nothing to say about the demographics of the Ukrainian Oblasts?`
What demographics? I think the last time HJ mentioned this some of them were around 10 years old. Needless to say there has been a vast movement of peoples since 2022. The most recent elections (anyone voting was threatened with death by a Ukrainian regime purportedly committed to democracy) indicated a clear majority wished to align with the Russian Federation.
`Nothing to say about the largely irrelevant claims of Ukrainian Nazism?`
Most of it has already been covered by news outlets over a number of years including the BBC. Even the Guardian had an article a few weeks ago. Ukraine is the only country in Europe which allows avowed fascist groups (the Death Head logo and swastikas are a bit of a giveaway) inside its military. The website Myrotvorets which publishes kill lists of Ukraine’s enemies- Henry Kissinger and Roger Waters among them- operates with the clear support of the Ukraine regime and astonishingly its data has been accepted in court cases.
`Nothing to say about Putin tinkering with the Russian constitution?`
Very little. Any changes have to be voted on in parliament. Then again, I come from a country which does not have a written constitution.
`Nothing to say about the sources of your information on "de-dollarisation" etc?`
It’s hardly a contentious position and has been well covered by economists across the globe. The BRICS move to buy oil in yuan or rubles is part of that development, which Saudi Arabia is involved with.
sammer
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Mon 2 Oct 23:06
Limiting the Ukraine conflict to the Donbas and letting them fight it out among themselves might have some attractions: I remember the same being suggested in regard to Northern Ireland in the early 1970s. But not to the people who live there. The idea that the equivalent of the Shankill Butchers and the IRA Nutting Squads will resolve any conflict is fanciful.
As regards NATO, Ukraine has been described as a ‘de facto’ member by American military figures which is the problem from a Russian perspective. NATO weapons on Ukrainian soil is as unacceptable to Russia as Warsaw Pact weapons on Cuba were to the USA back in 1962.
If the USA wishes to remain the unipolar force it sees itself as, then driving a wedge between Russia and China would be a wise move. Richard Nixon clearly saw this but the neo-cons who run the present US regime seem to believe they can fight Russia and China at the same time.
If Putin’s legacy is for him to be remembered alongside Stalin and Mao then history will have been kind to him. Stalin led the country to its victory over fascist Europe and both Roosevelt and Churchill acknowledged his achievements, as he did theirs. Mao helped defend his country against a series of Japanese incursions which cost at least 15 million lives then began the transformation of China into a major industrial power. Neither of them ever bowed before the Yankee dollar so Putin would be in good company.
sammer
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Tue 3 Oct 01:30
ref: sammer
More random words. Is he an experiment with A.I. gone wrong? - or a real person who`s surrounded himself with performing monkeys, all telling him what he wants to hear? It`s all Monkey Chatter. Time to walk away from that ole chatterin` monkey - poor soul, he`ll be goin` on forever ...
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/NUAtH0ycl4A?feature=share
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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Tue 3 Oct 02:11
OAUTP - not sure if your question above was rhetorical, but the basic answer is that Putin want`s to have a legacy. Bringing back the "brotherly people" of Ukraine and Belarus to form some sort of Union state would be seen as a
Sammer -
I`d like to see a source of Zelensky asking other countries to send back Ukrainians. Let`s see it.
What do you think the Russian death toll is? Go on, let`s have a rough figure!
I actually studied a course on Ukraine, Russia and Belarus in the Spring Semester of 2022 when everything kicked off and what your stating about "a mass movement of people" in recent years is absolute nonsense. Only 17% of the pre-war Ukrainian population are ethnic Russians, with 31% counting Russian as their first language. Assuming 44Mn in the country, Those percentages amount to 7Mn and 13Mn (ish) respectively. Moreover, as we`ve been through before, the pro-Kremlin "Party of Regions" was the one who began pushing the language agenda in Ukraine when it had never been an issue before. They also didn`t want to give the Hungarians in Transcarpathia the same rights as them, which is rather ironic. Are you still gonna ignore this?
I`d be quite keen to see your sources on your claims about Ukrainian Nazism. Why not post those? The simple fact though is that "Nazis" and the far right in Ukraine are not and never have been anywhere near the levers of power.
How free and fair are the elections to the Russian Duma? What happens to elected representatives (such as Vladimir Kara-Murza, Boris Nemtsov and Alexy Navalny) who speak out against Putin? Nina Kruscheva is about the only one who is untouchable for obvious reasons. Are you simply gonna continue to ignore this?
BRICS members couldn`t agree on the colour of Sh1te. India and China despise each other and have quite substantial border disputes and India is taking substantial industry away from China because it is a free market. India and Brazil are arguably the two most important members and when it comes down to it, they will choose relations with the US, EU and Japan/Korean/Taiwan for technology over the other countries. Lula is already pressing negotiations for a trade deal with the EU. 95%ish of world trade is conducted in US dollars and even the Euro hasn`t changed that fact.
Somehow I don`t think the US sees itself as Unipolar. The US is quite aware that the EU collectively has more economic might but that politics gets in the way. They`re also aware that India will overtake them at some point and that China has the potential to, but that is unlikely to be the case under the current political system there. The world is going multipolar and it will be the US, EU and India who will be at the top, with Mercosur too potentially a bit later. The Chinese people have an incredible capacity for suffering and I`m genuinely curious to see how long the CCP will survive and Russia, well, they`re knackered.
...
Post Edited (Tue 03 Oct 02:12)
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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Tue 3 Oct 02:11
The irony about Russia seeing itself as "a great power" is that it actually could have been so if it wasn`t rotten from the inside with corruption. If it had developed in a manner similar to the way Poland or Czech has with infrastructure development and so on, then it would be in a far better position. It`s funny how the authoritarian states always want to "show off" their supposed power while the democratic nations pretty much keep quiet and then folk like Putin make disastrous miscalculations. The democratic nations are far more powerful that a lot of folk actually realise and what`s happened in Ukraine has served as a wake-up call to Europe to remilitarise and the same is happening in Japan right now. China certainly isn`t going to do itself any favours by continually wettingoff Vietnam, Malaysia, Philippines and Indonesia and they all have or will have American-trained militaries.
I guess you simply want to ignore the fact that Stalin killed about 20Mn? And that Mao killed 40-80Mn people? Also, I think you`ll find that it was Deng Xiaoping who was responsible for beginning the Industrialisation of China.
Post Edited (Tue 03 Oct 02:17)
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Tue 3 Oct 22:50
David Arachamia is the leader of President Zelensky’s political party and it was he who said, on September 1, that Ukraine might seek to extradite men of military service age currently in Europe. This proposition was also flown, rather like a kite, by Fedor Venislavsky, a Ukrainian MP who is on the National Security Council. The response from the EU was dismissive: Poland, which has absorbed around 80,000 Ukrainians eligible for service, showed some interest but Germany (120,000), Austria (14,000), Czechoslovakia and Hungary made it clear they would not extradite Ukrainian citizens seeking refuge in their lands. The issue arose at the time President Zelensky was dismissing military personnel on grounds of taking bribes to dodge the draft. There are several links to this story in the countries concerned as well as Russian media, but the one most acceptable to western eyes might be in a publication called ‘Brussels Signal.’
A gun is a pretty useful ‘lever of power.’ There are more armed fascists in Europe today than at any time since 1945. The Azov legion failed to suppress the citizen militias of the Donbas who rebelled against the 2014 coup d’etat and they promptly skeddadled when the Russian army entered the theatre of war. They had promised to fight to the death in Mariupol, their stronghold, but changed their mind when trapped inside a steel works. Their remnants can now be found in western Ukraine screaming for more weaponry and as an acknowledgment of their sterling deeds, President Zelensky has this week renamed a battalion after a Ukrainian nationalist from the 1930s who has a lot of Polish blood on his hands. Evgeny Konovalets sought help from Hitler, whom he met, but was assassinated by Soviet agents in Rotterdam before his group became assimilated into the fascist OUN.
HJ likes to refer to ‘democracies’ but it seems to me that every time a vote goes against his own opinion then it does not count, whether in Donbas elections or the Russian Duma. Trump has the same attitude in the USA. Navalny, the mediocre student who magically found himself doing a course at Yale University is seen for what he is: a man opposed not to corruption but the fact that the corrupt money does not get into his pocket. Son of Yeltsin.
Revolutions cost lives, particularly of those aligned to the discredited power elite which has been overthrown and is attempting a counter revolution. The inflated western casualty figures attributed to Stalin and Mao by HJ are still well within the range of the UK revolution identified with Oliver Cromwell (the basis of the UK’s present ‘democracy’), and in the case of Ireland significantly lower. Even these numbers pale into insignificance when compared with the excess deaths in the Americas and Africa which resulted from the imperialism of European peoples; people who believed in God and for the most part practised democracy. Nowadays we call it ‘the rules based international order.’
sammer
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Fri 6 Oct 01:36
If you wish to absorb the rationale behind American imperialism then The Council on Foreign Relations is a good place to start. It’s actually a club where you have to be sponsored, rather like the Freemasons, and is dependent on American citizenship. So OAUTP would presumably be debarred from membership despite his recommendation of the CFR’s analysis of the war in Ukraine. It’s very much a rich man’s club though, so best carry a cheque book even if admitted.
The Scottish roots within US racism and imperialism are well documented, ranging from the Ku Klux Klan through to Woodrow Wilson, George Wallace of Alabama and the present day warmonger from South Carolina, Lindsey Graham. So maybe there is an audience for this sort of stuff.
sammer
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Fri 6 Oct 22:40
If there wasn`t previously a condition known as OSOD - i.e. Obsessive Self-Opinion Disorder - there is now. Guess who`s got it?
For everyone else - from reading the last piece I linked, I came up with an overview, that Russia invaded Ukraine over security concerns, i.e. NATO getting too close for comfort. However, NATO has security concerns of its own.
The likes of sammer tries to convince us that Russia is in the right, and that Europe is in the wrong, i.e. that only Russia`s security concerns are valid. But let`s put right and wrong aside, and stick with the basic premise that both sides have security concerns and they are mutually incompatible.
Putin decided that justifies invasion. But if NATO was to invade Russia, the same justification would apply.
The difference is, Putin is the one who decided he is happy to kill thousands of people from Ukraine and Russia, rather than find another way. So far, NATO has been trying to fend him off with one hand tied behind their backs.
That`s my overview. Simple.
Cue the latest instalment of `Monkey Chatter - you know it doesn`t make sense.`
Post Edited (Fri 06 Oct 22:58)
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Sat 7 Oct 00:12
Craig Murray’s blog today is about the UK equivalent of the CFR, named Chatham House. It’s funded by the same billionaires who OAUTP recommended as analysts a few days ago and unsurprisingly they reach the same conclusion: NATO forces must enter Ukraine before the last Ukrainian has been killed. Otherwise the whole war game initiated by George W Bush is a dead letter.
This makes perfect sense for billionaires who have invested heavily in Ukraine as an entry into Russia, such as Hunter Biden. But why OAUTP, who I assume is a man of moderate means much as myself, has seized on this neo con fantasy is a matter between him and his therapist. NATO has failed to win in Afghanistan, Iraq or Syria. Ukraine is now short of weaponry and manpower, as conceded from within its own ranks.
Russia and Ukraine were perfectly capable of finding a rapprochement, even after the Minsk agreements were dishonoured by the west. But their attempts to do so were scuppered in April 2022 at which point a decision was taken by both Russia and NATO to decide matters on the battlefield, which is where we are now. There will be no cease fire, frozen conflict or even a peace deal so far as I can judge reading statements from the Pentagon and the Kremlin. This is a fight to the finish.
sammer
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Sat 7 Oct 03:32
I wonder why the war is being fought in Ukraine though, and how NATO intended to invade Russia without mobilization?
"Rapprochement" Sure, Putin is always striving for harmonious relations.
He`s just so misunderstood.
Well I can`t waste time on Monkey Chatter, I`ve gotta polish my gold bullion bars, and organise a jumbo jet to carry my diamonds. Being a trillionaire sure ain`t all fun!
Post Edited (Sat 07 Oct 15:51)
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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Sat 7 Oct 08:47
Sammer - I can`t even find this Arachamia story on Ground News (which is an extremely good news verification site), which kinda tells me everything that I need to know. You`ll have heard this claim on Russian TV and, as always, you`ll consider that as a valid and verified source. As for the "Brussels Signal", think GB News but based in Brussels and that should give an idea of the quality and factualism of the journalism there.
I would like to see the source confirming the numbers you state and also the one about the naming of the Ukrainian Battalion. Why not share these?
"A gun is a pretty useful ‘lever of power.’ " Complete attempt to deflect from the point there and play whitabootery. You`ll actually find that the Azov Batallion are back in the fight in Southern Ukraine right now.
The point about fascism is really pretty null and void when it was a Pro-Russian party (The Party of Regions) who started to stoke up ethnic tensions with language policy. What was Russia`s placement of LGMs into Donbas and annexation of Crimea if not an attempt to undermine the Ukrainian state? Surely installing a pro-Russian regime on Ukrainians to undermine their right to self-determination is fascism? or at least imperialism?
Good to see you FINALLY admit that corruption is rampant in Russia. Convenient though how you single out Navalny and either forget or ignore Boris Nemtsov and Vladimir Kara-Murza. Anna Politkovskaya is another one who springs to mind. Were they after a share of the swathes of missing money as well?
The crimes of the British and other colonial powers were abhorrent and I have never suggested otherwise. The question is, why do you feel the need to play whitabootery to justify your admiration of murderers like Stalin or Mao? Simply put, you`ve admittted they killed their own people which means they are murderers. If the number of deaths is questionable, that doesn`t change the simple fact that they murdered their own citizens. That would certainly put them in the same category as Cromwell for most people! How do you settle that one?
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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Sat 7 Oct 09:13
OAUTP - Putin was basically in need of a bogeyman because of all the anti-corruption protests during the pandemic. He also has a history of using conflict to cement his power - Chechnya and Georgia were definitely examples of that.
Personally, I think the root of Putin`s opportunism on Ukraine came from when Macron called NATO "brain dead" and then the decision to attack was finalised when Biden said the US "would not put boots on the ground".
Xi was almost certainly aware of the plan to attack, but was probably blissfully unaware of how incompetent the Russian armed forces are. That`s generally the way it goes in countries with top-down authoritarian regimes - they genuinely have no idea how rotten they are with corruption.
Putin will claim this is all about protecting ethnic Russians but the reality is that it`s all about keeping himself in power because he sits atop the oligarch pyramid and basically needs a successor that will guarantee him immunity from prosecution as he did for Yeltsin back in 99.
Sammer - You mention April 2022. Do you think the Ukrainians should simply have ceded their land to Russia and allowed military aggression to go unchecked? It was quite obvious that the Russians were going to attempt a "False Flag" but the media coverage made this largely impossible. It seems you favour a "might is right approach" when it comes to Russia and China but are staunchly against anybody else using the same approach. Ironic, no?
Whether you and Putin like it or not, Ukraine will join the EU and NATO. It is simply a case of when. I just wonder if Putin will still be alive or in power when it does!
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Sat 7 Oct 15:49
Hurricane Jimmy: 👍⭐
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Topic Originator: parsfan
Date: Sat 7 Oct 18:34
Quote:
sammer, Sat 7 Oct 00:12
Russia and Ukraine were perfectly capable of finding a rapprochement, even after the Minsk agreements were dishonoured by the west.
And the East. You keep conveniently forgetting that there were obligations on Russia there as well.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Sat 7 Oct 23:01
I`m just back from the Soviet era bar so I don`t want to let rip with a vodka post.
I will offer news links for the embarrassing NATO news tomorrow but whether that will ever satisfy those who believe that Ukraine is on the brink of defeating Russia I doubt. If Ukraine actually exists in two years time I will be surprised, but OAUTP is as entitled to his projections as I am.
Corruption exists in all counties, no more in Russia than in the UK and certainly far less than the plutocracy that is the USA. The Biden and Clinton and Bush crime families scarcely bother to hide their contempt for the ordinary working man. Russia, under Putin, managed to drive the oligarchs out to places like West London where they await their call to return, and restore the Yeltsin era free for all. The fat cats want to loot a bit more, as they have done to great effect in Ukraine.
It is not going to happen in Russia despite the wild fantasies and wet dreams of the Council for Foreign Relations or Chatham House.
sammer
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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Sat 7 Oct 23:28
Sammer - I`m not sure how any news would be embarrassing for NATO considering they are not directly involved in the conflict (despite what Rossiya 1 and 24 want you to believe). The major embarrassment in this conflict is the performance of the Russian miliary, who have been majorly thwarted by a force considered to be majorly inferior prior to the outbreak of conflict.
Another attempt to dodge the point there with deflection RE corruption. You`re well aware that Russia is rotten to the core with officials stealing money and that Russiah SHOULD be doing far better than it actually is. My disdain for the UK is well documented on this forum, but there is absolutely no way that the UK is anywhere near as corrupt as Mainland China or Russia.
You can write all the George Galloway-style poetry on Russia that you like, but that won`t make you any less wrong on the justification for this war.
That said, the UK Government have a lot to answer for RE Russian money in London.
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Sun 8 Oct 22:27
Ground News, based in Canada, did carry an article from a Brazilian newspaper on the naming of a battalion after Konovalets, the Ukrainian fascist from the pre-war years. The wording stated that the honour was ‘issued by Presidential decree published by Zelensky’s office.’ This is the same wording used in several other reports and if it was fake news then the Ukrainian government could easily debunk the claim and expose those who propagated it.
The same is true for the issue of extraditing Ukrainian men now living in Europe. All the reports quote spokespersons for the Polish, Austrian, Czech and German governments. They either said what they said or they did not, and since I have seen no denials or retractions from them, I assume they did voice objection to the idea of extraditing Ukrainian men of military age.
The fact that these news items were not covered by western media is hardly surprising. I was told last week that an international news story- the lauding of a former SS man in the Canadian government- was simply not covered by the BBC.
The idea that Putin launched a war in order to stop paltry street protests against corruption is pretty much unique to HJ. The official line is that Putin is a modern day Hitler who, if not stopped in his tracks, will invade Europe and have his battleships sailing into Rosyth Dockyard.
If NATO is not directly involved in the conflict then it is doing a very good impression of being so, and has even convinced former pacifist Annalina Baerbock that a state of war exists between Germany and Russia. Putting NATO boots officially on the ground is another matter and given NATO’s recent record in the likes of Afghanistan and Libya would be unlikely to prove much of a game changer. But if the Russian army is as decrepit as HJ claims, then he might yet have the opportunity to prove that in battle and prove me wrong
sammer
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Mon 9 Oct 09:20
Konovalets was murdered on Stalins orders in 1938.
OUN which he founded split into 2 factions in 1940. In 1941 only Banderas OUN-B worked with the Nazis in an effort to gain Ukrainian independence. They later fought against the Nazis.
There is absolutely no way to tell if Konovalets would have been in OUN-B or the moderate OUN-M.
What we do know is Stalin killed a third of Ukrainians through forced starvation in the Holodomor. This is why there was a movement for Ukrainian independence.
Sammer, If you are so anti fascist why do you support Putin a clear fascist who follows the philosophies of prominant neo Nazis Dugin and Prokanhov.
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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Mon 9 Oct 11:49
Dearie me Sammer...the points about Putin using conflict to preserve his own power is certainly not unique to me. In fact, that was the viewpoint presented to me by my teacher of contemporary Russian politics during a course I took back in 2018. He`s from St. Petersburg, where Putin started his political career.
As I said, if you have the links for the claims about Achadamia, the extraditions and the Ukranian batallion, then SHARE THEM! How hard is that?! Somehow though, I suspect its because you`re well aware that the sources are questionable.
I`m also still waiting for you to provide what you believe to be the Russian military death and casualty figures in Ukraine.
As for the Canadian issue:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66943005
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66908958
Once again, you spout absolute nonsense.
Let`s get this straight, do you genuinely believe that the Russian armed forces have performed well in Ukraine?
Definitely keen to hear a proper answer to the points made by SAF as well. Yet more inconvenient facts for Sammer there...
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Mon 9 Oct 20:15
Whether Konovalets would have become a fully fledged supporter of the Nazi wing of European Fascism we cannot know, but his assassination programme, sabotage,, donor money and professed affiliations all point in one direction. If there is such a thing as a ‘moderate’ fascist – a concept pushed hard by western historians in the 1950s in order to help integrate West Germany- then he might well have become that terminological impossibility.
Had Vladimir Putin embraced the pan Slavic scribblings of Dugin then he would have been removed from office long before now. Prohkanov has some literary skill but has thrashed around from left to right in a desperate attempt to find the ‘Russian soul,’ like Dostoevsky before him. I would suggest that their influence on Putin’s political thinking is akin to that which Noel Gallagher had on Tony Blair.
I’ll know Putin is a ‘clear fascist’ they day I, along with all other non-Russians, have to carry a different coloured ID card around with us, restricting us to move only in certain areas and denying us the right to work, rent or buy property. Or telling us who we can and cannot marry. Or banning us from speaking our native tongues in public places. Or interning us or deporting us as enemy aliens.
In the West we tend to throw out the term ‘fascist’ as a general insult but the USSR’s understanding of the reality goes a lot deeper. Here’s a link to a film you may already know of which shows that reality in one village in Belarus, one of 600 subjected to the same ordeal. It’s a slow haunting film, not made in the Hollywood style, but the closing scenes show that the fascists were not only German but Romanian, Ukrainian and also Russian members of the ‘National Liberation Army.’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjIiApN6cfg
sammer
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Mon 9 Oct 21:23
It’s not difficult to check the sources of news items with a search engine. Type in key words like ‘Ukraine, extradition, Austria’ and see what comes up. After that we are left to weigh up the reliability of the sources for ourselves but as a person immune to propaganda HJ is in a better position than most of us to so do.
I’m happy to discover my having been misinformed over BBC coverage of Hunka’s standing ovation inside the Canadian parliament. Incidentally, I gather it was actually two standing ovations so sorry for that error. But at least the BBC has not fallen as far as I feared.
Being no expert on military matters I have to rely on those with experience in that field. HJ must surely be in the same boat since his military knowledge is based in Sweden, a country which has not been involved in a major conflict for a couple of centuries. Writing a sex manual from inside a monastery would be equally problematic.
Since no reliable casualty figures are possible to obtain then any attempt to nail down figures is futile. What can be observed are comments from NATO affiliates indicating Ukrainian problems with manpower. Ben Wallace of Balaclava let slip that the average age of a Ukrainian fighter in the Kharkiv was ‘over 40’ and he then made a call to send younger troops to the frontline. Presumably these younger men had already been at the frontline since there can hardly be a instance in history where young men were spared such duties, yet that is what Wallace seemed to be claiming. This plea for younger blood was echoed by a former Ukrainian official, now residing safely in the USA. Alexey Arestovich made the interesting claim that youngsters actually made better soldiers since they lacked life experience. Many, myself included, interpreted these remarks as a cynical demand for more cannon fodder since the earlier batches no longer exist.
Russian military performance? No shortage of views from non combatants but I’ll prefer the analysis (and casualty estimates) from Douglas MacGregor, Brian Berletic and Scott Ritter who have some experience in that area.
sammer
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Tue 10 Oct 01:49
Post Edited (Tue 10 Oct 01:56)
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Tue 10 Oct 09:19
Quote:
sammer, Mon 9 Oct 21:23
Russian military performance? No shortage of views from non combatants but I’ll prefer the analysis (and casualty estimates) from Douglas MacGregor, Brian Berletic and Scott Ritter who have some experience in that area.
Convicted paedophile Scott Ritter.
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Tue 10 Oct 17:28
Cue sammer-bot`s excuse - "Western propaganda! Infringement of inhuman rights! So what he`s a convicted paedophile, doesn`t mean his analyses must be wrong!"
*Note: sammer-bot is old style Soviet-era unscrupulous bot, there are many still around - recall and scrapping long overdue.
Post Edited (Tue 10 Oct 17:35)
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Tue 10 Oct 19:09
Scott Ritter’s personal judgment can definitely be called into question. If he didn’t anticipate the likelihood of being entrapped online after exposing the WMD fiction in Iraq then he is stunningly naïve.
Whether Ritter’s lack of judgment spills over into his military assessment is another matter. Alan Turing was convicted of ‘Gross Indecency’ after consorting with a young man who turned out to have criminal links. Yet nobody would have binned Turing’s code breaking on that basis surely.
Soviet era as an insult? For consumer goods maybe. But Soviet designed military equipment seems to have served Ukrainian troops better than the western gear that has been shipped in. Some commentators are referring to NATO equipment as ‘expensive, high-tech junk’ although it is as likely a problem of unfamiliarity and maintenance. Then again Israel built a state of the art security wall in Gaza and it was breached in around 15 minutes by young men driving bulldozers and motor bikes.
sammer
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Tue 10 Oct 21:17
sammer-bot betrays guilty conscience about `Soviet era,` merely used as a term to cover a particular period of history.
As I predicted, he tried to convince us that Ritter`s offences, and `lack of judgement` by engaging in online paedophilia, have no bearing on his ability to analyse military matters. Can`t be all that bright though can he?
Turing, homosexuality and a young man of 19, not in the same category as Ritter and much younger girls. Turing`s "offence" was merely a legal one. Ritter`s legal and moral.
As for Murray`s criminality - such as helping someone to burgle Turing`s house - only a bot could try to denigrate Turing on that account.
So - typical sammer-bot attempts to deceive there.
And just for good measure some guesswork about `Soviet-designed military equipment`, and other irrelevant bot-twaddle.
Why not throw in a free lesson on arguing with people online, or extreme ironing?
Post Edited (Tue 10 Oct 21:21)
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Topic Originator: Andrew283
Date: Tue 10 Oct 22:04
Soviet gear serving better than NATO issued equipment. What insane planet are you living on Sammer?
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Tue 10 Oct 23:39
Turing`s crime of homosexual activity, to which he openly admitted, is no longer considered a crime. But it was at the time, as he was fully aware, and thus calls his judgment into question. There are other allegations regarding under age boys which would make Turing a paedophile but these have never been taken beyond the Savile level for obvious reasons possibly pertaining to national security. I say `Savile level` since Turing was accused but was never convicted of any other crime in his lifetime. His judgement on matters code breaking remains intact, which is surely how he should be judged. Scott Rotter deserves no less. Unless a person fears his analysis, as the Germans doubtless did Turing`s.
It`s better to attack the argument rather than the man, otherwise a person runs the risk of looking weak.
The concept of Soviet gear being better than NATO was never disputed when Gagarin went into space. In fact NASA used USSR engines when they hit the moon in 1969. But 40 years of neo conservative historical revisionism has blinded younger readers to these realities. In fact last year the Russians, who liberated Auschwitz, were barred from the commemoration whilst the Germans whose grandparents managed the death camps and the Poles whose grandparents did the dirty work stood with their heads bowed trying to look sorrowful.
If NATO gear is so good, how did it not obliterate the Taliban (now in control of Afghanistan), Libya and Syria? I appreciate the UK taxpayer (of which I am still one) is funding this stuff, but suppose it is a bit of a rip off. That it is high tech garbage like the Gaza fence? Like a MIC scam?
sammer
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Topic Originator: Andrew283
Date: Wed 11 Oct 00:07
Good lord you are deluded. The same NATO equipment that the Ukrainians are currently using to absolutely spank the Russians? It`s not even a contest without Russia just throwing bodies at the problem, the same tactic they`ve relied on since the 20th century
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Wed 11 Oct 01:17
Russia did pretty well in the 20th century all told. From a proletarian perspective of course as is my weakness. A damn sight better than my Scottish grandparents` and especially my parents` generation who remained under the yoke of UK feudalism albeit with far greater opportunities than are available nowadays. Lord Bruce never invited us down to Broomhall and said, `I`ve got your your allotments marked out lads.` Better move to sell you a Wimpey house on his land and take the rent. They called it `taking a stake in the economy` in Thatcher times.
If Ukraine is ``spanking` Russia their troops should really be outside my window right now. And why would President Zelensky be begging for weaponry from NATO in a war he is already winning? And why would Ben Wallace be screaming for new Ukrainian recruits at the front line?
When Hitler retreated to his bunker to commit suicide, a telephonist pleaded with him to stay and see the `victory.` She was obviously involved in communications and had access to information yet she believed on 1st May 1945 that the Nazi victory over the savage hordes of the Steppes was imminent. I think this is the present situation with western observers and presumably Andrew 283.
sammer
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Wed 11 Oct 01:25
Sammer - If it`s a proxy war on behalf of NATO as Putler claims, then why is Zelenskyy having to plead for more weapons like you say?
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Wed 11 Oct 02:44
Ref: sammer, Tue 10 Oct 23:39:
"...other allegations...obvious reasons possibly..."
Well that`s conclusive!
(There`s no use editing the 23:39 post. This is verbatim:)
"Scott Rotter deserves no less. Unless a person fears his analysis, as the Germans doubtless did Turing`s."
"Scott Rotter" deserves no less does he? Maybe Scott Rotter does, but that Scott Ritter is definitely a Rotter!
There`s still a world of difference between Turing`s "offence" and Ritter`s.
"It`s better to attack the argument rather than the man, otherwise a person runs the risk of looking weak."
Sammer-bot`s idea of how to argue is to evade, make stuff up, never take any notice of what anyone else posts. Like someone making a jigsaw puzzle who breaks bits off, forces together bits from different jigsaw puzzles, making a right dog`s article of it all.
Attacking sammer-bot is a lot more fun than attacking a dog`s article.
Post Edited (Wed 11 Oct 12:06)
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Topic Originator: Andrew283
Date: Wed 11 Oct 19:55
Quote:
sammer, Wed 11 Oct 01:17
Russia did pretty well in the 20th century all told. From a proletarian perspective of course as is my weakness. A damn sight better than my Scottish grandparents` and especially my parents` generation who remained under the yoke of UK feudalism albeit with far greater opportunities than are available nowadays. Lord Bruce never invited us down to Broomhall and said, `I`ve got your your allotments marked out lads.` Better move to sell you a Wimpey house on his land and take the rent. They called it `taking a stake in the economy` in Thatcher times.
If Ukraine is ``spanking` Russia their troops should really be outside my window right now. And why would President Zelensky be begging for weaponry from NATO in a war he is already winning? And why would Ben Wallace be screaming for new Ukrainian recruits at the front line?
When Hitler retreated to his bunker to commit suicide, a telephonist pleaded with him to stay and see the `victory.` She was obviously involved in communications and had access to information yet she believed on 1st May 1945 that the Nazi victory over the savage hordes of the Steppes was imminent. I think this is the present situation with western observers and presumably Andrew 283.
The spanking refers to the fact that a severely outnumbered and initially, outgunned Ukrainian armed forces not only held back Russia, but with foreign aid now piling in aare pushing and even striking back into former Ukrainian territory.
This is a huge failed campaign from Putin, a vanity project that will hopefully haunt him till his successor likely poisons his tea or he falls out of a window, as is the Russian way 🙄
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Topic Originator: Andrew283
Date: Wed 11 Oct 20:03
Quote:
onandupthepars, Wed 11 Oct 02:44
Ref: sammer, Tue 10 Oct 23:39:
"...other allegations...obvious reasons possibly..."
Well that`s conclusive!
(There`s no use editing the 23:39 post. This is verbatim:)
"Scott Rotter deserves no less. Unless a person fears his analysis, as the Germans doubtless did Turing`s."
"Scott Rotter" deserves no less does he? Maybe Scott Rotter does, but that Scott Ritter is definitely a Rotter!
There`s still a world of difference between Turing`s "offence" and Ritter`s.
"It`s better to attack the argument rather than the man, otherwise a person runs the risk of looking weak."
Sammer-bot`s idea of how to argue is to evade, make stuff up, never take any notice of what anyone else posts. Like someone making a jigsaw puzzle who breaks bits off, forces together bits from different jigsaw puzzles, making a right dog`s article of it all.
Attacking sammer-bot is a lot more fun than attacking a dog`s article.
Him comparing a homosexual (horribly and unjustly vilified) with a known nonce really sums it up.
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Thu 12 Oct 01:24
Andrew 283 👍
Post Edited (Thu 12 Oct 01:25)
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Thu 12 Oct 02:26
Andrew 283 writes emotionally and, judging from his comments on the Palestinian situation, has a deep seated aversion to conflict. So far, so good. But like many Russophobes he is having to turn summersaults in relation to the situation in Gaza. The ‘right to defend,’ and ‘might is right’ is now official UK policy as far as Israel is concerned. Bombing cities to ensure security is back in fashion and anyone who says different might be arrested.
The problem for the UK government is that the claim of an ‘unprovoked’ attack by Hamas is not cutting through to the wider population in the same way as the absurd claim against Russia did. Very few westerners were aware of the situation in the Donbas prior to 2022- this is obvious in the remarks by Andrew 283- but many westerners have over the years acquired a view on Palestine totally at odds with the vacuous UK position of ‘We stand with Israel.’ That’s why there are attempts to shut down the internet and criminalise dissent because the NATO line cannot hold.
Sexual impropriety is the latest form of character assassination- in the good old days when marriage meant something it was adultery. ‘Adultery’ once carried the same moral outrage from the Andrew 283 brigade as ‘nonce’ does now. The Puritans are. like the fascists, always amongst us. Hence the ease with which Sheridan, Assange and Salmond or even Russell Brand- all people capable of changing the political scenery- have been driven from public life whereas Boris Johnson, a serial sex pest, remains untouched. Andrew 283 is a creature of his time and incapable, on the basis of his posts, of forming a post colonial view of the world in which the USA/UK is not the central player. His outrage is admirable but his analysis of Russian motives is as juvenile as what is reported in UK media. I hope the events in Palestine continue to develop his political thinking.
As a pointer in that direction the Ukrainian forces in 2022, around 600,000 well armed and trained, were the second biggest army in Europe after Turkey. They might well have routed anything from UK, France or Germany. Most of them have since perished. But even at their peak, they had no more chance of defeating the Russian military as even Hezbollah, the most feared militia in Zionist eyes, could overcome the State of Israel.
sammer
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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Fri 13 Oct 19:59
Dearie me. OAUTP called that pretty well, I have to say!
Andrew is a Russophobe?....eh?
Genuinely laughed at the call out of "might is right" on the part of the UK as well. Is that not what you`re supporting when it comes to the Russians in Ukraine Sammer?
RE the sources of military information. All three of the names I had never heard of before which doesn`t surprise me, but when you search their names they come up often in different Russian, Belarusian and Chinese new sources, mainly state media. There have been a number of incidents where Chinese and Russian media have hired Westerners to come on to their media for vast sums of cash and basically act as "White monkeys" to make positive statements about authoritarian regimes. Steven Segal is one that springs to mind for Russia and there are bunch of them in China.
A lot of the issues the Ukraine is having with weapons is the fact that they`re converting from ex-Soviet to Western Weaponry. As far as I remember, it`s only Bulgaria within NATO that was able to produce a lot of the shells and ammunition of the calibre for the ex-Soviet weaponry. A lot of the logistics and supply chains for the new equipment are still being established (this is one of the reasons that it took so long for the Abrams tanks to arrive and why the F16s will not be seen for a while yet), including the training of maintenance teams and so on.
As for the claims that Soviet-era equipment is better than Western MBTs, Fighters and so on...that is just laughable. Next we`ll be hearing that the IL2 can take down an F-35!
Once again Sammer, you are absolutely slavering...
On a separate and newer matter, very interesting interview here regarding the rupture of the Nordic Connector pipeline:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E24WnZTj-c8
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Fri 13 Oct 22:53
Western media does not permit much in the way of opposition to the NATO narrative, so it hardly surprising that commentators who take a different viewpoint are little known. There are a number of dissenting non military US and UK voices- often ex-CIA or diplomatic service- who are not given their Belling Cat, Chatham House column each week in the likes of The Guardian. There has been pressure applied to shut these awkward voices down but as yet unsuccessfully. Suella Braverman is still working on it and so far as I understand her, she has attempted to criminalise (without any recourse to a parliamentary debate or vote) tomorrow`s planned protest meeting regarding Palestine in London.
Such desperate measures were not required in terms of Ukraine since the Donbas civil war was barely reported in western media, so any murderous attacks on Russian affiliated people were not given the oxygen we have seen over the last six days from the Gaza border. The deeds were of the same horrific sort, but the victims less mourned. Nor is there a significant percentage of Russians living in the UK apart from a batch of oligarchs who settled in London to protect their loot courtesy of the best laws in Europe to protect money laundering.
President Putin has underscored Israel`s right to defend itself; he`s hardly a man to miss an open goal. He also added that US influence in both Ukraine and Israel has made these countries incapable of reaching a proper settlement with their neighbours. In both countries an aggressive right wing nationalism has fed off this unconditional US support and distorted the politics of both countries, creating the conditions for conflict that we witness today. Attempts to reach agreement by UN resolutions, The Oslo Accords and the Minsk Accords have been treated with contempt. Next stop Taiwan.
As for `might is right` that is preserve of anyone who joins, by volition, a military force. There would be no point joining otherwise.
sammer
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Sat 14 Oct 01:27
Unlike in the west, anyone in Russia is free to criticise their own government, leaders and alliances without fear of punishment, is that right?
I suppose the poet Irina Ratushinskaya was sent to a labour camp for a holiday at the expense of the state.
`Irina Ratushinskaya was only 28-years-old when she was sentenced to seven years` hard labour and five years` internal exile, accused of anti-Soviet agitation and propaganda. Her crime: writing poetry. She was held for three years in a "strict regime" labour camp, in a special unit for women political prisoners where she suffered beatings, force-feeding and solitary confinement in brutal, freezing conditions. But her poems were smuggled out of the camp, and published in 1986 by Bloodaxe in "No, I`m Not Afraid", the book which spearheaded an international campaign which eventually secured her release.` (1)
And if sleep doesn’t come
And if sleep doesn’t come, count up to a hundred.
And chase away these thoughts.
I know, you can’t reach me any longer.
And nothing can help any more.
So when at night you’re burning don’t rend
The white bandage of your last sleep!
Perhaps I shall come again soon, and then
Surely you’ll recognise me.
And I shall be like a child, like a bush – With the tenderest touch of all
And you, predict something longer for
A tale with a happy end.
And I shall be like grass, or like sand –
So I’m warmer to embrace.
But if I’m like a starving hound —
Feed me without delay.
Like a gipsy, I shall snatch at your sleeve.
Hurl myself, like a bird, at your pane,
Don’t chase me away, when you know who I am.
All I want to do is look in.
And one of these days, in foreign parts,
In the snow, or maybe the rain,
Upon a frozen kitten you’ll chance.
And it will be me again,
And whomever you please, whatever his plight.
You’ll be able to save, come what may.
And I at that time will be everywhere.
Everywhere on your way.
The Sparrows of Butyrka
Now even the snow has grown sad –
Let overwhelmed reason go,
And let’s smoke our cigarettes through the air-vent,
Let’s at least set the smoke free.
A sparrow flies up –
And looks at us with a searching eye:
‘Share your crust with me!’
And in honourable fashion you share it with him.
The sparrows – they know
Who to ask for bread.
Even though there’s a double grille on the windows –
And only a crumb can get through.
What do they care
Whether you were on trial or not?
If you’ve fed them, you’re OK.
The real trial lies ahead.
You can’t entice a sparrow –
Kindness and talents are no use.
He won’t knock
At the urban double-glazing.
To understand birds
You have to be a convict.
And if you share your bread,
It means your time is done.
(1) https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/jul/13/poem-of-the-week-the-sparrows-of-butyrka-by-irina-ratushinskaya
(2) Poems 1984 & 1981, translated from Russian:
https://www.markmeynell.net/2020/08/12/the-texts-of-some-of-irina-ratushinskayas-poetry/
& as (1)
Post Edited (Sat 14 Oct 17:26)
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Sat 14 Oct 23:36
`Unlike in the west, anyone in Russia is free to criticise their own government, leaders and alliances without fear of punishment, is that right?`
No, same both places. Ask Suella Braverman. Or Julian Assange if that`s still legal.
I enjoyed the poetry but I think she is from a time before our own. A good poet to my ear, but ask any teenager in the UK now to name a poet and can they come up with a single name? In the USSR there was intelligent resistance. Can we say that of the UK today?
sammer
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Mon 16 Oct 18:09
Here`s an extract from an Amnesty International report about Artyom Kamardin, one of the poets who is mentioned in the article I linked above:
Quote:
`Background
On 26 September 2022, armed police broke into the home of Artyom Kamardin and his girlfriend Aleksandra Popova. They apprehended them and their friend Aleksandr Menyukov. During the search, which their lawyer was not allowed to attend, police officers reportedly beat Kamardin and RAPED HIM WITH A DUMBELL [my capitals]. According to Aleksandra Popova, law enforcement officers filmed this and forced her to watch the video.
Artyom Kamardin was then put on his knees and FORCED TO RECORD AN "APOLOGY" VIDEO [my capitals] for posting a mock recital of the anti-war poem “Glory to Kievan Rus; Novorossiya sucks.”
According to Aleksandra Popova, she was also physically and verbally assaulted by police officers, who allegedly stuck stickers to her face with superglue, pulled out her hair, STUCK STICKERS TO HER FACE WITH SUPERGLUE, PULLED OUT HER HAIR, AND THREATENED HER WITH GANG RAPE [my capitals.] She was later diagnosed with head injuries and bruises.
Artyom Kamardin was diagnosed with concussion, multiple bruises and other injuries, according to his lawyer. The authorities refused to hospitalize him and his health condition remains unknown at the time of writing.
Artyom Kamardin was named a suspect in a case of “inciting hatred or enmity with the threat of violence” (Article 282(2) of the Russian Criminal Code) together with activists Nikolai Dayneko and Yegor Shtovba. If convicted, they face up to six years in prison.`
Post Edited (Mon 16 Oct 19:21)
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Tue 17 Oct 00:46
Nothing OAUTP has written, in his lachrymose prose, was not happening in either Donbas from 2014 or in Gaza since 2017. His emotional engagement seems controlled by western media. OAUTP seems the classic example of the two dimensional man.
Israel is nervous about putting soldiers into Gaza. For very good military and political reasons , hence the apparent stall in the conflict.
sammer
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Thu 19 Oct 17:15
(Ref: sammer, Tue 17 Oct 00:46:)
"Nothing OAUTP has written, in his lachrymose* prose... OAUTP seems the classic example of the two dimensional man."
------------------------------------------------------
Such criticisms would be fine if he hadn`t already undermined them by proclaiming:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
(Ref: sammer, Tue 10 Oct 23:39:)
"It`s better to attack the argument rather than the man, otherwise a person runs the risk of looking weak."
-------------------------------------------------------------
Sammer-bot shows how much of an intellectual lightweight he is, by being on the end of a finger-wagging from himself!
Post Edited (Thu 19 Oct 19:22)
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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Fri 20 Oct 08:22
I still wonder how militias in the Donbas came to be armed back in 2014. What about all those soldiers speaking Russian, wearing Russian uniforms but with no insignias who suddenly appeared on the streets. Would the Ukrainian military have intervened had these people not suddenly appeared?
And let`s not forget the pro-Russian party (Party of Regions) who stirred up the ethnic tensions by introducing language policy that had never existed in the country before.
Do please enlighten us Sammer.
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Sun 22 Oct 18:58
So, is this Sokolov guy dead, or not? 🙄
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Sun 22 Oct 20:28
Ref: Dave_1885
Sun 22 Oct 18:58
So, is this Sokolov guy dead, or not? 🙄
---------------------------------------------------------
The concensus seems to be... yo / mibbies aye, mibbies naw.
He`s awfy quiet though, and he still hasn`t given a simple proof on video such as,
"Well done Scotland for qualifying for Euros `24. Too bad Andy Robertson is badly injured. I donno what`s up wi` sammer-bot. Maybe a bit "lachrymose" after the debacle against Ayr United. Love and rigor mortis to everyone from Viktor."
Post Edited (Sun 22 Oct 20:32)
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Sun 22 Oct 20:46
Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Sun 22 Oct 18:58
So, is this Sokolov guy dead, or not? 🙄
I fkn hope so Dave 1885 .. no harm to the guy but it might end this thread :-)
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Sun 22 Oct 21:57
That great piece of insight from Buspass has just re-ignited my interest in the question: SOKOLOV - dead?
Well here is a picture of Commander Viktor Sokolov, in formal attire, taken some time after 1960:
And here he is on a day off, when he was seen climbing a tree in Australia:
Is he still alive? For the answer, write to:
the Australian Bureau for Sokolov Investigation, the outback, enclosing an s.a.e and a can of c*ck-a-leekie soup (Baxter`s only please.) Cheers cobber!
Post Edited (Sun 22 Oct 21:58)
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Mon 23 Oct 01:19
Well done sadindie. You`ve provided the best evidence yet.
Yep, I`ve studied the videos,and other relevant stuff.
My verdict: he`s alive.
Post Edited (Tue 24 Oct 02:37)
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Mon 23 Oct 19:39
The evidence, which I believe proves it, is in the video linked by sadindie, and another youtube video that follows it, showing Sokolov in the church and coming out with the procession.
Post Edited (Tue 24 Oct 02:39)
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Tue 24 Oct 02:02
So that`s that. Well done sadindie, for providing what I believe is conclusive evidence, and your other comments. And well done Hurricane Jimmy for all the stuff you posted. And Andrew 283 and Parsfan. 👍 Wi` a special mention for Jake89 and his potted heid joke. Keep it up. 👍
All in all a good workout for the wee grey cells, and satisfying to get the answer.
Post Edited (Tue 24 Oct 03:18)
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Mon 30 Oct 01:32
Never mind Sokolov: According to some western media Vladimir Putin died of a heart attack two days ago. That’s the third time he’s died in the last two years, but as I saw him speaking on my return to Russia this evening I shall file these reports along with the Bucha massacre, the successful Ukrainian counter offensive, Hamas bombing their own hospital in Gaza and anything from Chatham House.
I’ll also enlighten HJ, as requested, and explain the distinction between symptom and cause. Yanukovich’s attempt to retain Russian as the official language of Ukraine was a symptom of the division within the country formerly known as Ukraine. Once he was ousted from power (he was Moscow’s man for sure) he was replaced by Washington’s man (Poroshenko) who reversed that same policy with a vengeance. None of these actions was any more meaningful politically than the UK going metric in the late 1960s as a precursor to joining the EU, as Brexit has since shown. I have just returned from Kazakhstan where the country has decided to adopt not just Kazakh as the official language (everyone in the shops and offices speaks Russian) but also the Roman alphabet. This means hardly anyone, educated in the Cyrillic alphabet, can read their own language. It`s a bit like Gaelic street signs in Scotland. Gesture politics all round.
The Donbas militia were supported by Russia to prevent a slaughter the likes of which we are now witnessing in Palestine. Russians in the east of Ukraine were not prepared to accept a violent overthrow of their elected government and exerted their right to resist an imposed regime funded by US imperialism. That cost 15,000 lives before Russia intervened and chased the Azov battalion (the only openly fascist organisation incorporated into a European national security apparatus since Hitler’s death) back into western Ukraine where it is now rather sheepish about its Nazi insignia and has been rebranded. If the Arab nations were to offer the same support to Palestinians as Russia did to the Donbas then we would be spared much of the hand wringing seen over the last week at the UN. Weapons for Gaza anyone? Tricky, given the blockade of course.
Having said that, the UN General Assembly vote on Friday was an absolute trouncing of the US/Israeli imperialism and much to my astonishment not even the UK or Ukraine could bring itself to vote against the Jordanian resolution. I can recommend, as others have done on this site, the coverage by Al Jazeera.
sammer
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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Tue 31 Oct 20:39
Sammer - Funnily enough, I did see the reports that Vladimir Putin had suffered a cardiac arrest but not that he had died. I was in Japan again about two weeks ago and there was a report in the media there that analysts using AI had examined an array of footage and audio recordings of Vladimir Putin and were pretty convinced through forensic analysis that that he has at least 2 body doubles. This was based largely on speech analysis and photographic analysis. So which one suffered the cardiac arrest I wonder?
I did also enjoy Putin claiming that the Muslims in Dagestan storming the airport looking for Israelis was stirred up by Ukraine. Which state is it that is full of right wingers again? So much for "de-nazifying" Ukraine when he can`t even stop new Pogroms in Russia.
I also saw some footage of a Ukrainian Leopard 2A6 destroying 2 Russian T80s, scoring a direct hit on one of them, from a range of 3km. And that`s not even the most advanced version of the Leopard 2, the accolade of which would go to the Swedish Sv 122 (remember, the one that Russian propaganda claimed to be a German Leopard stuck in the mud in Southern Ukraine). Oryx (which is pretty damn reliable) gives the total Russian MBT losses (incl. kills and abandonments) as 2082 at the time of writing with that number rising to 4000 including armoured vehicles - So much for Soviet Era equipment being a match for Western gear...
Ukrainian pilots are now well into their F16 training, while Sweden seems to be devising a plan to send their 70+ Gripen Cs but this will depend on the feasibility of training. There also seems to be a lot of activity on the East bank of the Dnipro river as well with the Ukrainians claiming they have liberated Oleshky. Russians have also had massive casulties at Avdiivka where they have tried to advance but have only managed about 1.5kms on average. The Ukrainians seem quite happy to sit tight in these areas and repel the attacks while probing away at others.
It also seems you want to claim everyone is ignoring the Donbas conflict, which isn`t the case at all. The simple fact is that it wouldn`t have happened if the Russians hadn`t armed local militias. And there wouldn`t have been the ethnic tensions had the Pro-Russian Party of Regions not tried to introduce language policy. And lets not forget ethnic Russians are ONLY 17% of the pre-war Ukrainian population. Again, would the Ukrainian military have had to intervene without the Russian arming of local militias?
It`s genuinely quite funny how readily you display a double standard. Outright support for Russian Imperialistic mentality, yet you`ll condemn so readily what you claim to be the same behaviour (although "worse" in your mind) from the US and EU. If you go an watch channels like 1420 on YouTube, you are simply parroting what the auld Soviet babushkas have soaked up from the radio and tv about "de-dollarisation", Ukrainian Nazis and America wanting to destroy Russia.
Post Edited (Tue 31 Oct 20:47)
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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Tue 31 Oct 20:40
Does it not tell you something that Kazakhstan (which actually didn`t have a history of statehood prior to 91, as did all of the ex-Soviet stans) want to move away from Russia and are willing to go as far as changing their official character set? Strangely, you also omit that this happened back in 2018.
Can you genuinely not fathom that the Ukrainians want to have their own state, free of Russian interference?
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Wed 1 Nov 01:17
The thing to remember about artificial intelligence is that it is artificial. I have the advantage of having been in the same room as Vladimir Putin about a dozen years ago and hearing him speak briefly, and the man I see on TV is undoubtedly him.
The Dagestan nonsense has been swiftly dealt with by Russian authorities and resulted in 80 arrests so far. Which is a damn sight more than Ukraine has managed to collar either for the Maidan sniper attacks or the burning of trade unionists inside Crimea. Fascist instincts exist in every society- I’ve stood on terraces in Scotland alongside such types from a well known Scottish football club. The secret is not to give them licence or, even worse, incorporate them into to your security services. Of more interest to me were the 400 mostly Jews arrested at Grand Central Station in New York on Friday evening, protesting against the Zionist State’s claim to murder civilians in their name. It was well covered by Al Jazeera but I’ve not found much in UK media since my return to Russia. I believe there has been a similar demonstration inside a London train station this evening.
The Leopard tanks are no more an answer to Ukraine’s military problems than the next magic bullet on offer. Ukraine’s counter offensive was always a lunatic dream since the basic problems of lack of munitions and lack of manpower cannot be overcome. This was offered as an opinion by me some months ago, based on wiser counsel of course, and is now accepted as reality by western commentators. Check out the recent Time magazine article on Zelensky.
The US policy to weaken Russia is well documented and easily found in articles from neo –cons such as Wolfowitz and Brzezinski, the theorists behind Joseph Biden, Antony Blinken, Victoria Nuland and Jacob Sullivan. Their Zionism and hatred of the USSR comes as standard. US imperialism is a matter of simple arithmetic: there are around 750 US military bases dotted around the globe whilst Russia and China (allegedly the greatest threats to world peace) can barely muster two dozen. Go figure, as Ronald Reagan used to say.
sammer
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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Wed 1 Nov 16:56
Oh dear, more absolute bumph as usual along with the avoidance of the comfortable points.
Artificial intelligence can`t be trusted because its artificial?! Dearie me! Well, I guess you have hee haw in the way of knowledge of computer science then? Voice analysis is pretty damn accurate and has been for about 20 years, so AI wouldn`t really mess up the data on this one. Whether you`ve been in the room with him or not, do you honestly trust your own senses to the point where you could tell a highly trained double apart from the real Vladimir Putin? Particularly when they are trained in things like mannerisms and speach? That`s the quite the feat!
So we`ve gone from "Ukraine is a fascist hovel full of Bandera Nazis" to "every country has fascist instincts". I guess, countering a complete lie with a sweeping statement can be regarding as progress if you`ve made that conclusion.
I made my feelings about both Hamas and Likud clear on the other thread and I`m not really sure what the relevance here is? Putin claimed that his aim was to "De-nazify Ukraine" and it seems he neglected those on his own doorstep who fancy a wee Pogrom. I think you`ll also find the Soviet ambassador to the UN in 1947 was a wee bit of a Zionist too if you care to look back to the formation of Israel.
Again, you show your complete naivety regarding military matters. Much of the slowness of the counter offensive has been is due to the logistics of switching from Soviet-era standards to Western-standards. Only Bulgaria (if I remember correctly), a country of 7Mn, was equipped to produce new Soviet calibre munitions. Germany dithered on the Leopard and the US dithered on the F16 and the training of the crews has been delayed because they`ve actually had to give them courses in English so they can use the manuals. You claimed earlier that "Soviet era equipment has served the Russian army well", when Oryx quite clearly shows that`s not the case - 2100 tanks dead or captured with that figure rising to 4000-odd when you include armoured vehicles. Out of the 140 Leopard 2s only about 10 or so have been damaged, 2 beyond repair if memory serves correctly - the fact they can actually repair these things shows the gulf in technology. If you want to put it simply, the Ukrainians have thus far, by and large, destroyed a much larger army that was considered overwhelmingly superior fighting largely with old Soviet junk.
Russia and China may have fewer bases worldwide than the US but Russia was the one who attacked Ukraine and China is the one who keeps threatening to attack Taiwan. I don`t see the US or EU threatening to attack another nation, do you?
BBC Russian (which is staffed by Russian citizens), have verified about 88,000 Russian military deaths thus far. Then you have the bodies rotting in Ukraine and the maimed. All this for one man`s ego and to save him from prison. Go Figure.
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Wed 1 Nov 22:51
The game is up for NATO. Their intention was to weaken Russia economically, through sanctions, and provide enough military hardware to put the Russian army back on its heels. None of this has transpired. They have ploughed money into the most corrupt nation inside Europe and achieved zilch. Politically and militarily, I mean. Economically they have done reasonably well. Ukraine and the EU are footing the bill.
The Zionism of 1947 is a very different beast from that on open display today which targets civilians inside Gaza. And Golda Meir, one of the most impressive women I have ever been aware of in my lifetime in politics, was given a heroic reception when she visited Moscow in the late 1940s as a former Ukrainian woman. I think the USSR even issued a stamp in her honour. She was pretty intransigent on the concept of Palestine but a woman who could have produced better politics than right wing zealots like Netanyahu.
As regards aggression, the US military bases tell their own story. There are still 20,000 US troops in the UK which tells me enough. US forces have not won a war since they allied with the UK and the USSR in 1941. They invade countries in defiance of UN law, wreck the country, then leave before they are hounded out. Their other tactic is to ignite a ‘colour’ revolution by the process of bribing the elite of poorer countries in order to topple democratically elected governments, with the intention of looting the natural resources. It’s hit a brick wall with Syria and Russia. And it might even hit another brick wall if Hezbollah respond from Lebanon.
BBC Russian is a new one on me, but I am confident is a Chatham House type set up. Check who funds these organisations is a good enough guide. The outcome of the Ukraine conflict was obvious from the outset; it is just a matter of time. As, to be fair, the US officials have admitted. Neither Ukraine, nor Israel, would exist in their present deformed right wing form, without US support. Once that goes, there is nothing left except reality.
sammer
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Topic Originator: Tenruh
Date: Thu 2 Nov 06:47
Quote:
sammer, Wed 1 Nov 22:51
The game is up for NATO. Their intention was to weaken Russia economically, through sanctions, and provide enough military hardware to put the Russian army back on its heels. None of this has transpired. They have ploughed money into the most corrupt nation inside Europe and achieved zilch. Politically and militarily, I mean. Economically they have done reasonably well. Ukraine and the EU are footing the bill.
The Zionism of 1947 is a very different beast from that on open display today which targets civilians inside Gaza. And Golda Meir, one of the most impressive women I have ever been aware of in my lifetime in politics, was given a heroic reception when she visited Moscow in the late 1940s as a former Ukrainian woman. I think the USSR even issued a stamp in her honour. She was pretty intransigent on the concept of Palestine but a woman who could have produced better politics than right wing zealots like Netanyahu.
As regards aggression, the US military bases tell their own story. There are still 20,000 US troops in the UK which tells me enough. US forces have not won a war since they allied with the UK and the USSR in 1941. They invade countries in defiance of UN law, wreck the country, then leave before they are hounded out. Their other tactic is to ignite a ‘colour’ revolution by the process of bribing the elite of poorer countries in order to topple democratically elected governments, with the intention of looting the natural resources. It’s hit a brick wall with Syria and Russia. And it might even hit another brick wall if Hezbollah respond from Lebanon.
BBC Russian is a new one on me, but I am confident is a Chatham House type set up. Check who funds these organisations is a good enough guide. The outcome of the Ukraine conflict was obvious from the outset; it is just a matter of time. As, to be fair, the US officials have admitted. Neither Ukraine, nor Israel, would exist in their present deformed right wing form, without US support. Once that goes, there is nothing left except reality.
Interesting comments in the third paragraph , you could reflect on the situation we Scots now find ourselves in since1706
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Thu 2 Nov 22:47
Every nation has its `parcel of rogues.` At least the Arab states got a decent price for their oil, unlike the Scots.
The only antidote to being sold out seems to be a politically conscious and well organised populace. This has often proved beyond countries except in times of war, when of course the proletariat are armed.
sammer
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