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 Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Sun 18 Feb 16:02

If the attached is correct we can forget about Independence for the foreseeable future.


https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-future-in-numbers/
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 18 Feb 16:17

Nevermind the number seats. It`s number of voters that matter and there isn`t a majority of people living in Scotland wanting independence. For me personally I`ve went cool on the idea as post Brexit the economics don`t make sense anymore.



Post Edited (Sun 18 Feb 16:26)
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 18 Feb 18:15

If we had a referendum we`d know for sure if a majority of Scottish voters wanted independence but neither of the two main Unionist parties seem to believe in democracy.

And here`s me thinking Brexit has affected the UK economy as a whole...

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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sun 18 Feb 19:50

If we`re that much of a burden to the UK, why do they want to keep hold of us?🤔💰💰💰
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash  
Date:   Sun 18 Feb 20:09

‘If we had a referendum we`d know for sure..’

We did, and we do.

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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 18 Feb 20:11

It`s altruism, LA. They want to save us from ourselves.

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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 18 Feb 21:54

So the solution is to vote for???
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Mon 19 Feb 02:21

Brexit was a dastardly plan to halt Scottish independence.

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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Mon 19 Feb 05:45

Quote:

OzPar, Mon 19 Feb 02:21

Brexit was a dastardly plan to halt Scottish independence.


It hasn`t stopped NI....they`ll be totally free by 2033....what stopped our politicians getting a similar deal ?
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 19 Feb 08:08

N.Ireland are in the same situation as all nations in the UK - you can`t leave unless the party in Westminster says so. I realise this is hard for some to understand, but you cannot leave. It doesn`t matter if it`s SNP, Labour, Lib Dems or Alba (LOL J/K), you`ve had your breakfast now pipe down.
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Mon 19 Feb 09:07

Quote:

jake89, Mon 19 Feb 08:08

N.Ireland are in the same situation as all nations in the UK - you can`t leave unless the party in Westminster says so. I realise this is hard for some to understand, but you cannot leave. It doesn`t matter if it`s SNP, Labour, Lib Dems or Alba (LOL J/K), you`ve had your breakfast now pipe down.


If only Scotland had a leader like Mary Lou Mcdonald .
And they don`t even take their seats in Westminster.

https://youtu.be/riDh8pQz-WA?si=hfYacgNwCfeyz7rG
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy  
Date:   Mon 19 Feb 10:14

We actually don`t know the opinion of the Scottish public RE Independence at the current time.

TA`s assertion that we do is simply fanciful, mainly due to the fact that 10 years have passed which amounts to about 10% of the older population dying off and being replaced by younger voters in the electorate.

The argument about Northern Ireland is interesting. If I remember correctly, NI can have a border poll every 7 years. Salmond said last time that it was a "Once in a generation vote" with a voting generation usually being 16-18 years, meaning that we`re only a few years off that point. Somehow, I think it`s pretty clear that very few young Scots actually identify themselves as British first these days and that is very unlikely to change.

I was always curious why the SNP didn`t simply hold an advisory poll on the same day as the last Scottish election. That way the UK government would really struggle to argue legally that it was illegitimate when they approve the Scottish General election. They could always request the EU or UN to send in observers to observe the vote as well, but if I`m not mistaken such a request would have to be made via a member country such as the Republic of Ireland. An interesting scenario though if you were to have a First Minister who is also a dual citizen of an EU state. Essentially in this scenario the First Minister would be challenging the UK Government to prosecute them with sedition, which would be politically damaging for the UK if they were to do so.

Independence will happen in my lifetime, but certainly not with Humza Yousaf in charge. I would surmise that the SNP will remain the biggest party in Scotland both in Westminster and Holyrood owing to the Independence vote holding but I can see one of the bigger hitters such as Cherry or Smyth coming to Holyrood and gutting the party out at the next election and taking a cycle or two to rebuild. Labour and Tory simply won`t resonate with much of the public in Scotland. The former because they are largely on the same part of the spectrum as the SNP but Unionist and the Tories are simply hated, especially by the young. Interesting times ahead.
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 19 Feb 10:56

Quote:

Tenruh, Mon 19 Feb 09:07

Quote:

jake89, Mon 19 Feb 08:08

N.Ireland are in the same situation as all nations in the UK - you can`t leave unless the party in Westminster says so. I realise this is hard for some to understand, but you cannot leave. It doesn`t matter if it`s SNP, Labour, Lib Dems or Alba (LOL J/K), you`ve had your breakfast now pipe down.


If only Scotland had a leader like Mary Lou Mcdonald .
And they don`t even take their seats in Westminster.

https://youtu.be/riDh8pQz-WA?si=hfYacgNwCfeyz7rG


I`m willing to bet you £10 that McDonald does not get independence for N.Ireland. We had the same with Salmond and Sturgeon. There is no way to get this without permission from Westminster. End of story.
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Mon 19 Feb 13:24

Is the 7yr border poll not enshrined in the Good Friday Agreement?
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Mon 19 Feb 13:32

Quote:

LochgellyAlbert, Mon 19 Feb 13:24

Is the 7yr border poll not enshrined in the Good Friday Agreement?


Yes, and you can be sure the Irish will have it when they know they`re going to win.

The American lobby will see to that.
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Mon 19 Feb 13:35

Quote:

jake89, Mon 19 Feb 10:56

Quote:

Tenruh, Mon 19 Feb 09:07

Quote:

jake89, Mon 19 Feb 08:08

N.Ireland are in the same situation as all nations in the UK - you can`t leave unless the party in Westminster says so. I realise this is hard for some to understand, but you cannot leave. It doesn`t matter if it`s SNP, Labour, Lib Dems or Alba (LOL J/K), you`ve had your breakfast now pipe down.


If only Scotland had a leader like Mary Lou Mcdonald .
And they don`t even take their seats in Westminster.

https://youtu.be/riDh8pQz-WA?si=hfYacgNwCfeyz7rG


I`m willing to bet you £10 that McDonald does not get independence for N.Ireland. We had the same with Salmond and Sturgeon. There is no way to get this without permission from Westminster. End of story.


NI are not wanting Independence are they ?
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Mon 19 Feb 15:20

jake`s point is valid.

he says you can`t leave the uk (doesn`t mention if that`s for indy or reunification) without Westminster agreeing - and guess what, they`re using the same line (no evidence, not what people want, more important things, etc)

tenruh mentions Mary Lou Mcdonald, who appears to be a very good leader... but even she cannot call a border poll on her own and will need to pressure Westminster into agreeing

again, another ridiculous situation where one person seems to be able to say to a whole country (who didn`t vote for them), whether they can or cannot decide on their own future - and neither SF,SNP,SDLP,Alba,PC, etc can change that

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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 19 Feb 16:46

I`m meaning both TBF - independence from the UK and reunification with Ireland.

I`m assuming they don`t go hand in hand. I`ll no doubt be incorrect on this, but my understanding is N.I was the most industrious and economically successful part of Ireland pre-Irish independence. Look at it now. Would the Republic of Ireland want to take N
Ireland on?

Would N.Ireland want to go in with Ireland and forfeit things like the NHS?

My expectation is they would need to seek independence first and then go for reunification in the same way Scotland would have to agree independence first and THEN request re-entry into the EU.

However, it`s a pretty pointless discussion given Westminster will always say no. There can never be a majority of SNP/Alba/Green MPs and the same with Sinn Fein. An English party will ALWAYS have the majority. So, just like Hotel California, you can check out any time you like but you can never leave!

The GFA may assist N.Ireland in some way and then have the benefit of being geographically separated from Britain. Scotland would still have the issue of exports/imports travelling through England unless effective infrastructure can be put in place in Scotland.
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Mon 19 Feb 17:07

Why would NI want to break away when they keep getting back handers?💰💰💰
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Mon 19 Feb 17:07

most healthcare is actually free or greatly subsidised in Ireland BTW and something like 40% of the population get all healthcare services completely free.

many workers in Ireland will have healthcare as part of their remuneration package - those who are earning but don`t get healthcare through work (like self employed folk etc) and earning enough will take out health insurance. last time I was speaking to family who didn`t get it through work were paying about 40 euro a month for insurance - but I have not idea what sort of package that was?

as for Westminster mix, you`re completely correct. for every one person in Scotland, there are ten in England, so we get what England wants... but the ratio is even worse in NI, one to thirty-one

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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Mon 19 Feb 17:18

Quote:

LochgellyAlbert, Mon 19 Feb 17:07

Why would NI want to break away when they keep getting back handers?💰💰💰


Bit like Scotland I suppose
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Mon 19 Feb 18:02

Quote:

Tenruh, Mon 19 Feb 17:18

Quote:

LochgellyAlbert, Mon 19 Feb 17:07

Why would NI want to break away when they keep getting back handers?💰💰💰


Bit like Scotland I suppose


Not quite as big!💰💰💰
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Mon 19 Feb 18:03

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northern-ireland/border-poll-voters-in-northern-ireland-under-45-would-opt-for-a-united-ireland-says-survey-TLHZTW7UWFGBDFLLAIWTKBUTRQ/
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash  
Date:   Mon 19 Feb 20:06

If the UK is the Hotel California, then does that mean Indy is a dark desert highway?

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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 19 Feb 20:54

Yeah, with cool wind in my hair. Much healthier than being stuck in a hotel you can`t get out of.
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash  
Date:   Mon 19 Feb 21:19

wee eck wrote:

> Yeah, with cool wind in my hair. Much healthier than being
> stuck in a hotel you can`t get out of.

And the warm smell of colitas? There was a reason why he stopped at the hotel.

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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 19 Feb 21:34

However you interpret individual lines it`s pretty clear the traveller would rather be outside than inside.
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Tue 20 Feb 09:16

…and eck awakes, his bleary eyes gaze into the mirror on the ceiling, drains the dregs of last nights pink champagne, and prepares for another day of misery in the UK he hates.
He could always bugger off though..!

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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 20 Feb 09:24

Quote:

Parboiled, Tue 20 Feb 09:16

…and eck awakes, his bleary eyes gaze into the mirror on the ceiling, drains the dregs of last nights pink champagne, and prepares for another day of misery in the UK he hates.
He could always bugger off though..!


TBH I suspect many who are not tied to the country through family and other commitments ARE seeking to leave. Two of my friends have left this year. The UK is a complete mess.
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Tue 20 Feb 10:01

If it wasn`t for having grandchildren here I would be off as well!🌞

The ones that hate this country could move down south in an instant, back to the land of milk and honey!🤔👍🥳
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Tue 20 Feb 11:48

There would have been a mass exit south if yes had won the day. Scotland would have ended up with 40% unemployed, 40% state employees, and the rest retired living on a state pension of Ten quid a week plus a coupon for a monthly haggis supper…

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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Tue 20 Feb 11:54

Ps I think eck is having a long lie in, too much champers and mirrored horizontal gymnastics last night..

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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Tue 20 Feb 12:41

Quote:

Parboiled, Tue 20 Feb 11:48

There would have been a mass exit south if yes had won the day. Scotland would have ended up with 40% unemployed, 40% state employees, and the rest retired living on a state pension of Ten quid a week plus a coupon for a monthly haggis supper…


I`m sure we could have started a go fund me page to get you all back home, wouldn`t want you relying on Scotland supporting you!

Surprising the amount of English voices you hear North of Perth🤔
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 20 Feb 13:06

Different voices aren`t the issue. It`s the cretins in charge of the UK. Parboiled talks of people leaving a failed Scotland. Take a drive over the border. It`s absolute carnage. The only difference is those idiots voted for this chaos.
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Tue 20 Feb 13:16

He has been listening to Gordon Brown too much, when was the oil running out?
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Tue 20 Feb 14:01

Ah Big Gordon..that tub thumping unscripted speech on the eve of the referendum.
We knew No had it in the bag anyway cause the bookies were saying so, but it was nice to hear him give Salmond and Swinney a doing!

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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy  
Date:   Tue 20 Feb 15:54

Honestly, I just find Parboiled`s posts quite amusing. Quite obviously he is somebody who was indoctrinated at a young age to believe that being English made them "superior" and therefor he takes pride in milking the Scottish state for every penny possible, particularly given his advanced years and likely having achieved hee haw of note and having experienced little of the world. The narcissism in the attempts to play the victim and also to get a rise out of posters is also rather evident and just sad to be honest. Of course though, he "doesn`t care about what people think" of him.

Sadly, my experience of working in England made clear that the superiority complex was a lot more common than many might believe. As others have said, the number of English retirees that move to Scotland is rather indicative of the current state of affairs. As Jake says, they voted for this nonsense.

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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 20 Feb 17:22

Most English people I know are in disbelief of how the UK is run and are supportive of Scottish independence or see it as none of their business despite living here. There are a few exceptions and they are based in the south of England. Anytime I speak to them they sound like a walking, talking Daily Mail. Large swathes of England are now complete hellholes with poverty rates in the 40s. Of course, the blame is pointed at immigrants, people coming over on boats and sometimes even Scotland because you get free prescriptions etc.

Believe me, English people are not the issue here. The issue is who leads the country and who REALLY leads the country (donors and the media).

Independence wouldn`t solve this but it would make it easier to monitor corruption.
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Tue 20 Feb 18:03

Talking of corruption ;-

Michael Gove failed to register hospitality he enjoyed with a Conservative donor whose company he had recommended for multimillion-pound personal protective equipment (PPE) contracts during the Covid pandemic, the Guardian can reveal.

Two tickets in a VIP hospitality box at QPR v Millwall! An `oversight` of course.

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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Tue 20 Feb 18:56

Head of Fife Council (tory/Labour) coalition blaming Scottish Government for lack of funding causing budget constraints!

Welsh councils blaming Westminster for lack of funding, not Labour led Welsh Government!

STV news doing the interview, maybe they should look further South?🤔
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Dave_1885  
Date:   Tue 20 Feb 20:57

Quote:

jake89, Tue 20 Feb 17:22

Most English people I know are in disbelief of how the UK is run and are supportive of Scottish independence or see it as none of their business despite living here. There are a few exceptions and they are based in the south of England. Anytime I speak to them they sound like a walking, talking Daily Mail. Large swathes of England are now complete hellholes with poverty rates in the 40s. Of course, the blame is pointed at immigrants, people coming over on boats and sometimes even Scotland because you get free prescriptions etc.

Believe me, English people are not the issue here. The issue is who leads the country and who REALLY leads the country (donors and the media).

Independence wouldn`t solve this but it would make it easier to monitor corruption.


My English Aunt, who was born bred worked and lived her whole life in England, retired, bought a motorhome then registered herself at my cousins address in Stepps……..gets all the benefits of “living” in Scotland, spends 75% of the year in Spain and hasn’t paid one jot in taxes towards our system. And people say the system isn’t broken……

Its quite ironic that all of these NO voters cant give a valid reason as to why they wouldn’t return down south and just blame the SNP/Indy campaign on trying to drive the country apart…
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 20 Feb 22:10

Presumably she has no residence elsewhere? Being honest, if she`s in Spain most of the time then she isn`t benefiting much at all and will be paying more in Scotland if she has a decent pension.
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Dave_1885  
Date:   Tue 20 Feb 22:39

Quote:

jake89, Tue 20 Feb 22:10

Presumably she has no residence elsewhere? Being honest, if she`s in Spain most of the time then she isn`t benefiting much at all and will be paying more in Scotland if she has a decent pension.


She could have put her residency at her sons address, in Huddersfield, where she lived the majority of her life……why do you think she didnt?
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 20 Feb 23:05

Quote:

Dave_1885, Tue 20 Feb 22:39

Quote:

jake89, Tue 20 Feb 22:10

Presumably she has no residence elsewhere? Being honest, if she`s in Spain most of the time then she isn`t benefiting much at all and will be paying more in Scotland if she has a decent pension.


She could have put her residency at her sons address, in Huddersfield, where she lived the majority of her life……why do you think she didnt?


Because she`s under the impression she`s better off retired in Scotland? Yet, if she`s away the majority of the time, and isn`t receiving care, there is almost no benefit to her doing that. Does she have an actual residence in the UK? Given she can afford to live abroad for such a long time I`m assuming she`s a Spanish resident? Also assuming she has a decent pension, which will be taxed at a higher rate in Scotland than England.
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Dave_1885  
Date:   Tue 20 Feb 23:26

Quote:

jake89, Tue 20 Feb 23:05

Quote:

Dave_1885, Tue 20 Feb 22:39

Quote:

jake89, Tue 20 Feb 22:10

Presumably she has no residence elsewhere? Being honest, if she`s in Spain most of the time then she isn`t benefiting much at all and will be paying more in Scotland if she has a decent pension.


She could have put her residency at her sons address, in Huddersfield, where she lived the majority of her life……why do you think she didnt?


Because she`s under the impression she`s better off retired in Scotland? Yet, if she`s away the majority of the time, and isn`t receiving care, there is almost no benefit to her doing that. Does she have an actual residence in the UK? Given she can afford to live abroad for such a long time I`m assuming she`s a Spanish resident? Also assuming she has a decent pension, which will be taxed at a higher rate in Scotland than England.


She receives all of her benefits through the Scottish system aka medical, travel etc. She doesn’t have an actual residence in Spain or England, she travels in her campervan to and from Spain to England. She is now an Irish citizen through parenthood, so has an EU passport meaning no 90 day rule…….she pays into the English economy though through her vehicle maintenance which she does in Yorkshire…..

Post Edited (Tue 20 Feb 23:27)
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 20 Feb 23:31

She will get almost nothing from being registered in Scotland, especially if she`s away most of the time. Only benefit might be when/if she ends up in a home. Maybe playing the long game?

Amazing these English folk who have Irish passports and reside in Scotland though. It`s almost as if the place has been completely destroyed by the idiots running the place 😂
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Wed 21 Feb 08:54

Jings Eck … two tickets to a football match. Pathetic. As is the raging Anglophobia on here.
White Settlers go home eh!

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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 21 Feb 09:08

Based on your posts I`d say that`s the only phobia you don`t suffer from.
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Wed 21 Feb 10:39

To be fair to Parboiled he`s now as Scottish as any of us. Like tens, maybe hundreds, of thousands of other Scots his family left their home country and settled here to make a better life for themselves. Economic migration usually brings great benefits to both sides and going forward if Scotland were to gain independence we`d need a huge influx of more people into these shores.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 21 Feb 10:58

`To be fair to Parboiled he`s now as Scottish as any of us.`

That must be why he puts Scotland, and anything Scottish, down at every opportunity.

I think most Scots appreciate the benefits of immigration to the economy. That was probably one reason why a majority voted to stay in the EU - but their votes counted for nothing.

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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Wed 21 Feb 11:18

As is often the way in elections when the side/candidate you voted for loses. If over a million Scots hadn`t voted to leave we`d still be in the EU today.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 21 Feb 11:28

That sort of argument doesn`t view Scotland as a separate constituency of voters so is predisposed against the idea of independence.
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Wed 21 Feb 11:45

In the EU referendum we weren`t a separate constituency though.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 21 Feb 11:49

No, because we`re part of the UK!

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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Wed 21 Feb 11:52

Yeah so let`s stop this taken out against our will nonsense and our vote not counting silliness. The million plus Scots (much to my regret) very much did have their votes counted.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 21 Feb 12:02

...and the votes of the majority of Scots who voted didn`t count. They were trumped by votes from other parts of the UK who weren`t looking at it from Scotland`s point of view eg on immigration. For me that is a big disadvantage of being part of the UK.

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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 21 Feb 13:04

It IS a massive issue. Scotland`s immigration is different to England`s, are arguably it`s only the southern end of England. Scotland needs more young people and relies on seasonal workers, who tend to be young Europeans. England on the other hand appears to have too many people coming in.

Unfortunately, people confuse people coming here for work with people seeking asylum or "illegally" entering the UK.
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Wed 21 Feb 13:34

Unless you`re an Ex-pat (migrant) your fine!
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Wed 21 Feb 13:44

It’s quite simple Eck. Scotland voted to stay in the UK, the UK voted to leave the EU. Scottish votes counted along with the rest.

Scotland was gonna be out of the EU anyway if Yes had won in 2014 so you were
doomed either way..

Oh, and my family didn’t “settle” here. Like many thousands of other civilians in reserved occupations in these islands during WW2 my dad was telt where to go. It could have been Malta, Singapore, Hong Kong, Ceylon, anywhere the Navy had a facility/dockyard.

Fortunately he was posted from Tyne shjhipbuilding to Plymouth, then here, then to Alexandria in Egypt, so at least he didn’t end up a civvy POW of the Japs!

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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy  
Date:   Wed 21 Feb 15:33

Oh dear, we`re back to the Anglophobia claims...LOL

Have to agree with Jake that Independence would actually make it a lot easier to hold corrupt public servants and the government to account.

The Scottish Government could look into creating something like a "Scottish Resident Status" for access to the extra benefits we have. This is actually quite similar to what the Canadians have between their different provinces.

Interestingly, a Canadian pal of mine who lives in Japan is about to send his daughter to his home province of BC for university, but apparently she has to basically live there for a semester before being entitled to the subsidised rates which are obviously much less. The tuition-free study is a strange one though, as my son wouldn`t be entitled to it in Scotland (despite my roots and having paid taxes) but would be in Sweden simply because of my citizenship there.

If you put a residency requirement of 5 years on UK residents (the same as required for UK Citizenship) moving to Scotland to access the Tutition-free higher education and elderly care then you`d solve a lot of these issues. This way too, the Scottish Government would also have a list of those entitled to become Scottish Citizens in the future.

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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 21 Feb 16:22

`Scotland was gonna be out of the EU anyway if Yes had won in 2014 so you were
doomed either way..`

`You`? That`s an interesting choice of pronoun. Don`t you mean `we`?

I didn`t raise the question of your `settled` status. Everyone`s welcome to stay here if they want as far as I`m concerned.

I notice nobody`s answered the question LA asked on Sunday :-

Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Sun 18 Feb 19:50

If we`re that much of a burden to the UK, why do they want to keep hold of us?🤔💰💰💰

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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Wed 21 Feb 16:26

The system back in the 18th century was undemocratic in joining a union where people didn’t get a vote.
The system today is equally undemocratic in that the people can’t get a vote without permission from another country.

Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 21 Feb 16:36

The Scottish political media don`t seem to be exercised by this at all for some reason!

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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Wed 21 Feb 19:14

Westminster in meltdown, who would have thought?🤔😲🙈🤣🤣🤣
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 21 Feb 19:57

How can an ordinary member of the public be expected to make any sense of that - each party accusing the others of playing politics?
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Dave_1885  
Date:   Wed 21 Feb 21:34

Quote:

wee eck, Wed 21 Feb 19:57

How can an ordinary member of the public be expected to make any sense of that - each party accusing the others of playing politics?


My understanding is that theres 3 days a year that the SNP become the “opposition” in a debate, and can bring forward a motion, but today the Labour party (who get 17 days) hijacked the debate with their own amendments and the speaker allowed it?

Think the speaker of the house is finished after that catastrophe as he even admits being wrong numerous times.
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Wed 21 Feb 22:31

Would think Starmer will be on a sticky wicket as well, what say you Sarwar?🤔
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Thu 22 Feb 05:27

The Mother of all Parliaments, don`t make me laugh....the Liebour party could blow this big time.

Bring back the wee man...
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Thu 22 Feb 07:08

I doubt if any Westminster demand for a ceasefire would have the slightest effect, no matter how it was worded. Might as well demand Putin withdrawal from Ukraine, or China stop sabre rattling at Taiwan.

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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Thu 22 Feb 08:01

https://www.offtopicscotland.com/post/everybody-out
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 22 Feb 09:34

I suspect that Lindsay Hoyle did the wrong thing for the right reasons. However procedures only work if they are followed every time and while the snp were certainly playing politics with the motion they put forward that was there prerogative to do so.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Dave_1885  
Date:   Thu 22 Feb 10:30

Imaging claiming anyone putting forward a motion for a ceasefire in a war we have backed to the hilt thats killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians and annihilated an entire region is “playing politics”……honestly, the world some people must live in is worrying.
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 22 Feb 10:37

So you disagreed with the SNP walking out of the commons instead of voting in favour of the Labour motion?

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Dave_1885  
Date:   Thu 22 Feb 10:48

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Thu 22 Feb 10:37

So you disagreed with the SNP walking out of the commons instead of voting in favour of the Labour motion?


I disagree with the speaker turning an SNP opposition day into a Labour one, which is where the issue lies. It showed utter contempt for the 3rd largest party and the biggest party in Scotland by a country mile. The fact the Labour party had to try make it about themself also speaks volumes. Where was Starmer 3 months ago asking for a ceasefire? Thats right, backing Israel to continue to “defend itself”
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 22 Feb 11:03

But surely you`d want the SNP to put those grievances, as rightful as they are, to vote for the ceasefire motion that could be voted on for the greater good. Surely, since you think they aren`t concerned with playing politics, they wouldn`t care that Labour are late coming around to their position and just happy that they are there now.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Dave_1885  
Date:   Thu 22 Feb 11:09

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Thu 22 Feb 11:03

But surely you`d want the SNP to put those grievances, as rightful as they are, to vote for the ceasefire motion that could be voted on for the greater good. Surely, since you think they aren`t concerned with playing politics, they wouldn`t care that Labour are late coming around to their position and just happy that they are there now.


Why then did Labour need to put forward amendments, on a day that wasn’t for them? Why could Labour not have just voted on the SNP motion and then dealt with the outcome from it?

You say its about the SNP “playing politics” when clearly its other parties doing exactly that. The SNP have been calling for a ceasefire for months and now had their day in parliament jumped on by Labour to make changes to their motion…..the same Labour party that didn’t care about a ceasefire until they realised that Israel are going too far…….
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 22 Feb 11:20

I`ll withdraw my statement about the SNP playing politics with this and amend it to say all parties are playing politics with this.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Thu 22 Feb 12:12

It was Starmer trying to save the Labour Party knowing that many of his MP`s were going to defy him!

Tories supporting the SNP? Seen it all now, pure opportunism!
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Thu 22 Feb 13:37


Hopefully we`re rid of Hoyle

https://wingsoverscotland.com/politics-by-dummies/
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Thu 22 Feb 21:07

Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sun 18 Feb 16:17

Nevermind the number seats. It`s number of voters that matter and there isn`t a majority of people living in Scotland wanting independence. For me personally I`ve went cool on the idea as post Brexit the economics don`t make sense anymore


There is not a single country that gained its independence from the U.K./GB that had to justify the economic argument. You could argue that the economics of staying in the U.K. are pretty grim……let’s be honest, it has all been downhill since 2014 with no sign of things improving anytime soon.
So let’s just stay in the U.K., stay in a political system that renders our elected representatives impotent. Sit by idly whilst the wealth of our vast resources are squandered…..Yeah great idea….not.

Imagine the only aspirations that you have for your country is to meekly accept the status quo…..frightening and frankly sad..



Post Edited (Thu 22 Feb 21:17)
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Dave_1885  
Date:   Thu 22 Feb 22:25

Quote:

desparado, Thu 22 Feb 21:07

Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sun 18 Feb 16:17

Nevermind the number seats. It`s number of voters that matter and there isn`t a majority of people living in Scotland wanting independence. For me personally I`ve went cool on the idea as post Brexit the economics don`t make sense anymore


There is not a single country that gained its independence from the U.K./GB that had to justify the economic argument. You could argue that the economics of staying in the U.K. are pretty grim……let’s be honest, it has all been downhill since 2014 with no sign of things improving anytime soon.
So let’s just stay in the U.K., stay in a political system that renders our elected representatives impotent. Sit by idly whilst the wealth of our vast resources are squandered…..Yeah great idea….not.

Imagine the only aspirations that you have for your country is to meekly accept the status quo…..frightening and frankly sad..


Its as if the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and India didn’t prosper after gaining independence from British rule 🫢 did they have to show their financials in spreadsheets too? 🤔
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Fri 23 Feb 09:28

It’s very silly even for a Sep to equate countries that were exploited with one whose citizens were among the most enthusiastic and rapacious exploiters!

No more impressive sight in the world than a Scotsman on the make and all that!

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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Dave_1885  
Date:   Fri 23 Feb 12:40

Quote:

Parboiled, Fri 23 Feb 09:28

It’s very silly even for a Sep to equate countries that were exploited with one whose citizens were among the most enthusiastic and rapacious exploiters!

No more impressive sight in the world than a Scotsman on the make and all that!


Can you try that again in English please? 🤔
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Fri 23 Feb 12:46

Quote:

Dave_1885, Fri 23 Feb 12:40

Quote:

Parboiled, Fri 23 Feb 09:28

It’s very silly even for a Sep to equate countries that were exploited with one whose citizens were among the most enthusiastic and rapacious exploiters!

No more impressive sight in the world than a Scotsman on the make and all that!


Can you try that again in English please? 🤔


I think what he`s trying to say is that Scotland and many Scottish people were part of the British Empire the countries mentioned sought independence from.
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 23 Feb 14:00

There`s no logic in saying that Scotland can`t become independent because some of our ancestors were instrumental in the exploitative activities of the British Empire, if that`s what he`s saying. Mind you, few of his comments are based on logic.

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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Fri 23 Feb 14:03

Maybe you could explain to him in Scots och aye the noo!

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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Fri 23 Feb 14:15

Eck’s one the Redcoat cafe protesters who doesn’t know Scottish regiments in red coats took part in smashing the Jacobite rebellion.
Much to the satisfaction of lowland Scots, the majority.

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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 23 Feb 14:30

I didn`t even know the Redcoat cafe existed until you mentioned it. I prefer to live in the present rather than get excited about stuff that happened hundreds of years ago.
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Fri 23 Feb 15:09

Quote:

wee eck, Fri 23 Feb 14:00

There`s no logic in saying that Scotland can`t become independent because some of our ancestors were instrumental in the exploitative activities of the British Empire, if that`s what he`s saying. Mind you, few of his comments are based on logic.


Agree. Was just explaining what I think Parboiled was attempting to say.

The only thing I would say is those countries all had the advantage of not being physically joined on (if we forget about N.Ireland...).
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Fri 23 Feb 15:10

You’ll no be warbling Flower of Scotland then…

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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Fri 23 Feb 15:22

Jings I’ve just had a pop up “ Retire to Tennessee” - Is one of you old buggers dropping me a hint?



Post Edited (Fri 23 Feb 15:24)
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Fri 23 Feb 17:38

Starmer going to defy the GFA, that`ll go down well!🤔💥
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 1 Mar 10:30

THE SNP are set to win a clear majority of Scottish seats at the next General Election, according to a new poll.

The new polling from Survation, commissioned by Quantum Communications, predicted that the SNP would return 38% of the vote, while Labour were five points behind on 33%.

The SNP have gained two points and Labour lost one since the last Survation Scottish General Election poll in January.

The Tories were estimated to win just 15% of the votes in Scotland, the lowest vote share for the party since Liz Truss was prime minister.

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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Fri 1 Mar 11:41

So, taking the potential LibDems support into account the total Yoon vote will be a resounding majority.

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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 1 Mar 11:56

Do we know how that will translate into number of seats? Only five percent between SNP and Labour but under first past the post that doesn`t necessarily mean approximately the same amount of seats.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 1 Mar 11:57

Why not test that in a referendum then? One of the favourite ploys of the Unionists is to add up all the potential votes in polls for non-binary elections and take comfort from the fact that votes for Unionist parties are in the majority but they don`t want to face a binary poll on independence.

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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Fri 1 Mar 12:28

Doesn`t matter if SNP get 1 or 57 MPs it won`t make a blind bit of difference.

George Galloway has probably achieved more in the last 9 hours than the SNP has achieved in 9 years

https://peterabell.scot/2024/03/01/15733/

Post Edited (Fri 01 Mar 12:31)
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 1 Mar 12:37

Probably right Tenruh. Even when in 2011 the snp incredibly secured an outright majority in Holyrood they still couldn`t achieve independence.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 1 Mar 13:06

Weren`t you guys predicting an SNP wipe-out at the General Election which seemed to me to be a foolhardy prediction when we didn`t know the date and still don`t. A week`s a long time in politics as someone once said.

Could the reason the SNP hasn`t secured independence be that the system is rigged against them? Surely not!

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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 1 Mar 13:53

FWIW, the projected numbers of seats based on this new poll are SNP 38, Labour 14, LibDems 4 and Tories 1.

Post Edited (Fri 01 Mar 14:12)
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 1 Mar 14:28

More than double the seats for only five percent more of the vote? Tell me one more time who the system is rigged against?

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Fri 1 Mar 15:30

Quote:

wee eck, Fri 1 Mar 13:06

Weren`t you guys predicting an SNP wipe-out at the General Election which seemed to me to be a foolhardy prediction when we didn`t know the date and still don`t. A week`s a long time in politics as someone once said.

Could the reason the SNP hasn`t secured independence be that the system is rigged against them? Surely not!


Vote SNP for Independence

Sturgeon ( remember her) promised a Independence referendum in October last year...what happened?
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Fri 1 Mar 15:33

Quote:

wee eck, Fri 1 Mar 13:53

FWIW, the projected numbers of seats based on this new poll are SNP 38, Labour 14, LibDems 4 and Tories 1.


Unless the sh*t hits the fan

https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-best-form-of-defence/
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Dave_1885  
Date:   Fri 1 Mar 15:49

Quote:

wee eck, Fri 1 Mar 13:53

FWIW, the projected numbers of seats based on this new poll are SNP 38, Labour 14, LibDems 4 and Tories 1.


Wheres Alba on this list?
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Fri 1 Mar 15:58

Quote:

Dave_1885, Fri 1 Mar 15:49

Quote:

wee eck, Fri 1 Mar 13:53

FWIW, the projected numbers of seats based on this new poll are SNP 38, Labour 14, LibDems 4 and Tories 1.


Wheres Alba on this list?


How`s Labour getting 14 seats ? Only got 1 in 2019
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Fri 1 Mar 16:34

Quote:

Dave_1885, Fri 1 Mar 15:49

Quote:

wee eck, Fri 1 Mar 13:53

FWIW, the projected numbers of seats based on this new poll are SNP 38, Labour 14, LibDems 4 and Tories 1.


Wheres Alba on this list?


😂
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 1 Mar 17:25

`More than double the seats for only five percent more of the vote? Tell me one more time who the system is rigged against?`

It`s not as if the SNP is the only party that benefits from Westminster`s antiquated First Past The Post voting system is it? What`s rigged is that there is no democratic route out of the Union that doesn`t require a Unionist party to consent to a referendum.

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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Fri 1 Mar 17:39

Exactly wee eck
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 Re: Bye Bye Independence
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Sat 2 Mar 07:10

https://www.facebook.com/share/wUVWjndg85FuYZjy/

Post Edited (Sat 02 Mar 07:10)
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