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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Sun 17 Nov 19:43
From aunty… Biden allows Ukraine to strike inside Russia with US missiles
Summary
US President Joe Biden has given the green light for Ukraine to use long-range missiles supplied by US to strike Russia
Earlier, Russia targeted energy infrastructure in a large-scale overnight attack across Ukraine, which also hit civilian buildings
At least 10 people were killed in the strikes
President Zelensky said 120 missiles and 90 drones were launched during a "massive combined strike on all regions" with missiles reaching Ukraine’s westernmost part
Two Ukrainian MPs told the BBC their country needs more military support from its allies
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Sun 17 Nov 19:57
September 25th
Vladimir Putin says Russia would consider an attack from a non-nuclear state that was backed by a nuclear-armed one to be a "joint attack", in what could be construed as a threat to use nuclear weapons in the war in Ukraine.
In key remarks on Wednesday night, the Russian president said his government was considering changing the rules and preconditions around which Russia would use its nuclear arsenal.
Ukraine is a non-nuclear state that receives military support from the US and other nuclear-armed countries.
His comments come as Kyiv seeks approval to use long-range Western missiles against military sites in Russia.
Is this the start of a nuclear conflict ?
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sun 17 Nov 21:22
Probably not. Plenty of nations have given Russia weapons that have been fired deep into Ukrainian territory.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Sun 17 Nov 23:21
Ukraine has been defeated for months, but clown Biden keeps giving them weapons, and now, with this statement, he has us tilting on the edge of WW3—the utter stupidity of it all.
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Mon 18 Nov 10:48
Reaction from Russia to Bidens decision :-
President Biden’s decision to allow Ukraine to strike inside Russia with long-range missiles supplied by the US has sparked a furious response in Russia.
"Departing US president Joe Biden… has taken one of the most provocative, uncalculated decisions of his administration, which risks catastrophic consequences," declared the website of the Russian government newspaper Rossiyskaya Gazeta on Monday morning.
Russian MP Leonid Slutsky, head of the pro-Kremlin Liberal-Democratic Party, predicted that the decision would "inevitably lead to a serious escalation, threatening serious consequences".
Russian senator Vladimir Dzhabarov called it "an unprecedented step towards World War Three".
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Mon 18 Nov 10:49
If Ukraine has been defeated for months then why does Russia continue to bomb Ukrainian civilians week after week?
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Mon 18 Nov 16:10
Personally, I think it was really quite obvious that this was going to be approved after the US election, regardless of who won.
Trump is going to be an interesting one. I can see him allowing or even telling the Israelis to take out the drone facilities in Iran, which would severely hamper both the Russians and Iranians themselves. Then there is China and we all know where Trump stands there, which is something I would actually praise him for. Putin can of course enable the Houthis to attack shipping with missile systems, but that would likely be put down very quickly by the US and EU navies were it to come to pass. EU and other Western leaders will also be telling Trump quite clearly that if he lays down to Putin, this will really affect his "strongman" image.
The reason the Russians are moaning about this is because these missiles could do A LOT of damage to Russian logistics. It seems that this development has also brought Taurus missiles back into the spotlight in Germany which are the ones that could destroy the Kerch Bridge. Frankly, this permission should have been given months ago.
Kinda funny though because Russia has been using Iranian-made weapons to do long range attacks for quite some time...double standard, no? So it`s hardly an escalation on the West`s part - that`s simply an attempt to control the narrative.
The problem Putin has is that he simply can`t roll back on the war, as this will bring into question his legitimacy and potentially cost him his life. Russians are enjoying higher wages because of the jobs going into war production industries, but that disappears almost overnight if the conflict stops which it would likely do because its just unaffordable for the Russian state. The massive investment they`ve made has essentially been piled into a Black Hole instead of things that would have given returns later. And China certainly isn`t in a financial position to prop up Russia. Of course though, the Tankies are using this whole economic phenomenon as excuse to say that "sanctions aren`t working".
The major criticism of the West should be that it hasn`t delivered enough aid or permitted Western weapons to enter the fight early enough. What the Ukrainians do have, they`ve done remarkably well with - you just need to look at the ineffectiveness of the Russian Navy and Air Force to see that.
As things stand, the Ukrainians are struggling with manpower but are still inflicting massive casualties on the Russians - lower end estimates are 600k killed and wounded, while the higher estimates are 700k - BBC Russian has managed to identify about 200k of these people if memory serves correctly. Ukrainian military casualties are thought to be around 200k as things stand. Also quite a bit of evidence now of the first North Koreans being killed.
The Ukrainians have already been hitting targets with long range drones that can hit targets at a range greater than the ATACMS missiles. The suggestion that this is some kind of escalation is just nonsense. Moreover, The Russian media is already telling its people that they`re at war with NATO. How can they legitimately claim that this is a further escalation?
According to tankies like Oz though, Putin is morally upstanding and was completely justified in causing the deaths of 1Mn+ people, all to save his own position. Go figure.
Post Edited (Mon 18 Nov 16:20)
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Mon 18 Nov 17:40
Remember though that Russia still has lots of customers for its oil, etc from places like India…
…which is a bit galling when you see companies over here, buying services from India who in turn are fuelling Russia war machine
Post Edited (Mon 18 Nov 17:40)
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Mon 18 Nov 18:09
Not so sure Harris would have done it had she won....but this was a slamdunk now.....gives Trump something to negotiate with.
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Tue 19 Nov 16:56
Looking like Ukraine has started launching the missiles .. This from Aunty :-
"And without the Americans, use of these high-tech missiles, as Putin has said many times, is impossible."
He said Russia would "proceed from the understanding" that the missiles were operated by "American military experts".
"We will be taking this as a renewed face of the western war against Russia and we will react accordingly," he told a press conference at the G20 in Rio de Janeiro
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Earlier on Tuesday, the Kremlin approved changes to Russia’s nuclear doctrine, setting out new conditions under which the country would consider using its arsenal.
It now says an attack from a non-nuclear state, if backed by a nuclear power, will be treated as a joint assault on Russia.
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Tue 19 Nov 21:05
Well I suppose we’ll soon find out if he’s all wind and p!ss, once someone his own size has stood up to him
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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Tue 19 Nov 23:21
Aye, the thing about them being "Operated by American experts" is nonsense - the Ukrainians have been getting ATACMS training for about 2 years now.
The Kremlin tried the same moaning about the Ukrainians using armour piercing shells containing depleted Uranium, simply not mentioning the fact that depleted Uranium is an inherent component of all armour piercing shells and that they were also using it themselves.
It`s actually quite funny to go and compare some of the things that Oz and Summer have written on here to the Telegram account of Dimitry Medvedev. It`s pretty much a translated copy and paste and he really has become unhinged during the course of the conflict. The standard of Kremlin and CCP propaganda out there these days is embarrassing - it`s just utterly sloppy and purely reactionary.
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Wed 20 Nov 09:04
Quote:
DBP, Tue 19 Nov 21:05
Well I suppose we’ll soon find out if he’s all wind and p!ss, once someone his own size has stood up to him
Someone on the radio this morning (not sure who but was a reporter on Russia) stated that Putin wont use nukes as it would be catastrophic in terms of that NATO would return the favour meaning the end of Russia as a nation.
I get that Russia has more nukes in terms of numbers, but they’d have to attempt to wipe out a huge number of cities to be successful, where as NATO would only require 4 or 5 to clear Russia from the political map for good.
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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Thu 21 Nov 04:22
From what I understand, it`s quite widely known in diplomatic circles that the US told Putin in no uncertain terms that the use of a Tactical Nuclear Weapon in Ukraine would be met with the destruction of every Russian military Asset on the Ground in Ukraine and the bordering Russian oblasts through conventional means.
The first British Storm Shadows were used last night to attack targets inside Russia.
Putin`s position is far more precarious than many think and he tends to start wars as a distraction when evidence of corruption appears.
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