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Topic Originator: Tenruh
Date: Wed 11 Jun 06:10
Should we give the Unionists a further chance to steal our parliament by giving them our list vote?
Could we see a Unionist coalition including the Reform party ?
Is it wise to give the SNP both votes ? Or should we vote for another Independence party to keep the Unionists out of the parliament and hold the SNPs feet to the fire ?
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-grand-tour/
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Topic Originator: DunfyDave
Date: Wed 11 Jun 09:27
Our voting system is the most complicated and un-democratic system and completely disregards the opinions of the voting public.
To purposely demote a firm favourite and put them at a disadvantage in order to promote a more diverse parliament and prevent landslides goes against the grain of "one person = one vote"!
DunfyDave
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Wed 11 Jun 09:42
Holyrood is strange that some MSP`s who have never won an election reappear and still get paid for doing zilch, other than causing havoc!
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 11 Jun 10:41
Quote:
DunfyDave, Wed 11 Jun 09:27
Our voting system is the most complicated and un-democratic system and completely disregards the opinions of the voting public.
To purposely demote a firm favourite and put them at a disadvantage in order to promote a more diverse parliament and prevent landslides goes against the grain of "one person = one vote"!
Not really, it promotes having a more representative parliament than simply whoever gets the most votes, even if it`s a single vote.
In theory, it should encourage parties to work together. That`s fine for the 3 main unionist parties as they can find ways to work in a coalition. There`s only 1 main independence party, which is why we`ve had minority governments who can`t get anything voted through because the unionist parties will do anything in their power to obstruct any good being done.
The perfect example happened yesterday when the massively watered down Care Reform Bill was finally voted through. It`s not going to deliver the change originally outlined thanks to people like Jackie Baillie. Scotland (and the UK) are MASSIVELY behind countries like France, Germany and Spain in terms of innovation in health and social care. The Scottish Government and NHS have various teams working on improvements but the bureaucracy is incredible. A properly functioning National Care Service could have massively simplified how services are run, resulting in savings and better services for the public. But no, Labour, Lib Dems and Tories went against it at every opportunity. Ironically, Labour are pushing for a National Care Service for England. You couldn`t make it up.
Going back to the original post - it doesn`t really matter. You will NEVER get independence in Scotland even with 100% independence parties in power.
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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Wed 11 Jun 11:01
Just seen drugs deaths are up by 33%, A&E waits up, violent crime up…does anyone seriously believe a National Care Service would be anything other than another total fiasco like everything else these morons get their mitts on?
Post Edited (Wed 11 Jun 11:13)
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Wed 11 Jun 12:24
It amazes me how we in this part of the UK have managed to survive such incompetence whilst the rest of the UK has been living in a land of milk and honey.
It was interesting to hear yesterday that the Hinckley Point nuclear plant, currently under construction in Somerset, which was originally estimated to cost £18bn and to be completed by 2025, is now likely to cost at least twice that amount and won`t be ready until at least 2031!
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Wed 11 Jun 13:28
Was interesting to see that the Covid Enquiry confirmed that companies were to prioritise English supplies over other UK countries!
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 11 Jun 14:51
Quote:
Parboiled, Wed 11 Jun 11:01
Just seen drugs deaths are up by 33%, A&E waits up, violent crime up…does anyone seriously believe a National Care Service would be anything other than another total fiasco like everything else these morons get their mitts on?
Drug deaths aren`t up 33% 🙄
A National Care Service would have meant consistent delivery of care that could be targeted in areas with the greatest need. Of course, you wouldn`t care about that...
Edited to clarify:
Drug deaths REDUCED by 4% in comparison to the same period last year. Even that stat isn't particularly helpful though.
Post Edited (Wed 11 Jun 14:55)
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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Wed 11 Jun 15:54
Drug deaths last three months 33% higher than previous three months…whatever, no doubt the annual stats will be the worst in Europe as usual.
Aye Eck, I’m sure the relatives of these victims and the victims of violence will take comfort from the delay of a project in Somerset.
Shouldn’t divots like you pair be posting on Gardening Scotland?
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 11 Jun 16:00
Quote:
Parboiled, Wed 11 Jun 15:54
Drug deaths last three months 33% higher than previous three months…whatever, no doubt the annual stats will be the worst in Europe as usual.
Aye Eck, I’m sure the relatives of these victims and the victims of violence will take comfort from the delay of a project in Somerset.
Shouldn’t divots like you pair be posting on Gardening Scotland?
The last 3 months have been 48% warmer than the previous quarter. This is an OUTRAGE. 🙄
Of course, you knew that story was bollocks before you shared a snippet of it.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Wed 11 Jun 16:34
It has been noted in the past that Parboiled doesn`t comment on the performance of the Westminster government. They are beyond criticism. Unfortunately they have a much greater influence on our lives than Holyrood which Unionists claim is a `pretendy` Parliament and a `parish cooncil talking shop`.
He could provide regular supplies of an essential ingredient for the Beechgrove Garden though.
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Wed 11 Jun 17:32
If the Alba Party hadn’t been so vitriolic towards the SNP, they’d have had much more support from Indy activists.
It’s really ironic that their founder Alex Salmond knew consensus was the way forward despite privately seething with his former party.
SNP 1 2 worked only once before and that was a freak result really.
I would prefer all the Indy parties worked together and form a strategy with Indy in mind rather than party power for the sake of it.
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 11 Jun 19:18
Alba aren`t interested in independence anyway. Too obsessed with trans people. Ash Reagan making a tit of herself just yesterday by asking the justice minister to intervene around how Police Scotland are recording the gender of rapists. Spoiler alert - a woman cannot be charged with rape in Scotland meaning all recorded cases of rape are men. Further spoiler - how people are processed is the responsibility of Police Scotland, not government ministers.
Of course, Ash Reagan isn`t an idiot. She knew this and just wanted to stir a pot of hatred. And that she did for the Telegraph (surprise) then ran a headline suggesting Scotland is filled with rapists who are self identifying as women to escape arrest. 🙄
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Wed 11 Jun 20:10
You can`t be charged with rape in Scotland if you don`t have a penis.
The definition is to penetrate with a penis, so, obviously, it requires a penis. The law doesn`t specify the gender of the penis owner, referring to them as "a person"
So people who identify as women but have a penis can absolutely be charged with rape in Scotland.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 11 Jun 21:13
Quote:
Wotsit, Wed 11 Jun 20:10
You can`t be charged with rape in Scotland if you don`t have a penis.
The definition is to penetrate with a penis, so, obviously, it requires a penis. The law doesn`t specify the gender of the penis owner, referring to them as "a person"
So people who identify as women but have a penis can absolutely be charged with rape in Scotland.
True, but you`re also a man if you were born male as per the supreme court decision. Reagan is a nugget.
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Topic Originator: Tenruh
Date: Thu 12 Jun 06:46
Quote:
jake89, Wed 11 Jun 10:41
Quote:
DunfyDave, Wed 11 Jun 09:27
Our voting system is the most complicated and un-democratic system and completely disregards the opinions of the voting public.
To purposely demote a firm favourite and put them at a disadvantage in order to promote a more diverse parliament and prevent landslides goes against the grain of "one person = one vote"!
Not really, it promotes having a more representative parliament than simply whoever gets the most votes, even if it`s a single vote.
In theory, it should encourage parties to work together. That`s fine for the 3 main unionist parties as they can find ways to work in a coalition. There`s only 1 main independence party, which is why we`ve had minority governments who can`t get anything voted through because the unionist parties will do anything in their power to obstruct any good being done.
The perfect example happened yesterday when the massively watered down Care Reform Bill was finally voted through. It`s not going to deliver the change originally outlined thanks to people like Jackie Baillie. Scotland (and the UK) are MASSIVELY behind countries like France, Germany and Spain in terms of innovation in health and social care. The Scottish Government and NHS have various teams working on improvements but the bureaucracy is incredible. A properly functioning National Care Service could have massively simplified how services are run, resulting in savings and better services for the public. But no, Labour, Lib Dems and Tories went against it at every opportunity. Ironically, Labour are pushing for a National Care Service for England. You couldn`t make it up.
Going back to the original post - it doesn`t really matter. You will NEVER get independence in Scotland even with 100% independence parties in power.
Re you`re last paragraph, doesn't help if you keep voting in the Unionists like Dunfermline did last year
The unionist supporters vote for the best positioned candidate to beat the SNP both on the constituency and list options but there will be way more choices for the independence voter next year with the list having Independance candidates other than just SNP, the problem uptil now is the SNP are not prepared to work with any of the other independence parties/ individuals standing
Therefore, allowing more Unionists into parliament and denying fellow independence supporters more seats on the list.
Post Edited (Thu 12 Jun 07:14)
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Topic Originator: Tenruh
Date: Thu 12 Jun 07:21
Quote:
AdamAntsParsStripe, Wed 11 Jun 17:32
If the Alba Party hadn’t been so vitriolic towards the SNP, they’d have had much more support from Indy activists.
It’s really ironic that their founder Alex Salmond knew consensus was the way forward despite privately seething with his former party.
SNP 1 2 worked only once before and that was a freak result really.
I would prefer all the Indy parties worked together and form a strategy with Indy in mind rather than party power for the sake of it.
The only reason the Alba party were formed was due to the poor performances of the SNP over the previous 7 years.
The British security services have done a right one on the Scottish Independence parties/movement since 2015. We all need to pull together now for the cause.
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Topic Originator: Tenruh
Date: Thu 12 Jun 07:26
Just read the comments again and it`s quite obvious how a couple of individuals come in and completely change the narrative of the subject...coincidence?
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 12 Jun 08:35
Tenruh, I`m pretty sure you`ve said it yourself that there`s no route to independence though voting SNP. The same applies to Alba and any party. You need "permission" so there`s little point voting for an independence party unless you think they`re the best party for Scotland. As it stands - and by some miracle - the SNP probably are. If you watch Parliament TV you`ll see just how awful some of our MSPs are. They`re perhaps not quite as bad as the Westminster lot but not far off.
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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Thu 12 Jun 09:23
Check out FMQ’s today…those sitting behind Swinney, some of them are so dim they can barely read out the planted question that has been written for them.
As for British Security services involvement, utter piffle.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 12 Jun 09:56
Will we be able to spot `The Invisible Man` amongst the Labour MSPs?
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 12 Jun 21:10
Our local Labour MP has achieved sweet FA so far other than sitting on his hands while Labour took away Dunfermline`s promised £5m in funding. It`s now announced today that the same Labour party who cancelled all the funding because there was no money have magically discovered over £200m to invest in town centres. So Dunfermline will get a chunk of that then? Nope, it`s going to Kirkcaldy because the Labour MP there convinced Rachel Reeves to chuck them a few million to add to the countless millions already spent on Kirkcaldy while Fife`s only city and Scotland`s historic capital is left with nothing but failed "masterplans" the council never progresses.
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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Fri 13 Jun 09:07
Eck, Sturgeon apparently is still an MSP but her appearances at Holyrood are greatly outnumbered by book plugging/festivals/self promotion!
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Topic Originator: thebear
Date: Fri 13 Jun 11:19
Quite simply scotland is a great country in a mess and politicians whether voted or not are a shambles, they need to do what`s best for country, not their own idealism
Drugs record appalling
Drink record appalling
Health stats appalling
nhs appalling
religious bigotry appalling
Common sense appalling
God forbid if we got independence, what would they do to these,
Also finance How willl the country be funded. What happens to
Nhs
Tax levels/rates
defence/nato
What happens to NHS and Dentists
What happens to scotlands share of uk national debt.
To Scotlands very high level of people on benefits
Jobs what new industry is planned
I could go on!!!
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 13 Jun 11:29
With that list it`s hard to see why you think it`s `a great country`! Have we got some redeeming features?
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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Fri 13 Jun 12:43
…..some nice beaches?
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Fri 13 Jun 12:59
Quote:
thebear, Fri 13 Jun 11:19
Quite simply scotland is a great country in a mess and politicians whether voted or not are a shambles, they need to do what`s best for country, not their own idealism
Drugs record appalling
Drink record appalling
Health stats appalling
nhs appalling
religious bigotry appalling
Common sense appalling
God forbid if we got independence, what would they do to these,
Also finance How willl the country be funded. What happens to
Nhs
Tax levels/rates
defence/nato
What happens to NHS and Dentists
What happens to scotlands share of uk national debt.
To Scotlands very high level of people on benefits
Jobs what new industry is planned
I could go on!!!
All these issues and England wont let us go….,,I wonder why…….
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 13 Jun 16:14
England wanted out of the EU because it considered itself a `net contributor` to its finances. It doesn`t seem to have the same qualms about `subsidising` the rest of the UK.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 13 Jun 16:27
Quote:
thebear, Fri 13 Jun 11:19
Quite simply scotland is a great country in a mess and politicians whether voted or not are a shambles, they need to do what`s best for country, not their own idealism
Drugs record appalling
Drink record appalling
Health stats appalling
nhs appalling
religious bigotry appalling
Common sense appalling
God forbid if we got independence, what would they do to these,
Also finance How willl the country be funded. What happens to
Nhs
Tax levels/rates
defence/nato
What happens to NHS and Dentists
What happens to scotlands share of uk national debt.
To Scotlands very high level of people on benefits
Jobs what new industry is planned
I could go on!!!
All the things you`ve listed are a result of Scotland as part of a United Kingdom. So what will the UK do to help Scotland? Worth noting that health and the NHS is better in Scotland, drug deaths dropped in comparison to the same time last year, religious bigotry is a result of Britain sending a bunch of guys over Ireland, and I`m not sure any part of the UK is winning in the common sense Olympics.
Worth also noting that Scotland claims less benefits than N.Ireland, Wales and most of England. The "UK" and "England" rates are skewed massively by London. Yorkshire, which is roughly comparable to Scotland in size, is higher. Maybe it`s all those pesky immigrants?
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 13 Jun 16:46
Aye, that`s another anomaly, jake. Evidence based on Scotland being part of the Union for over 300 years is cited as proof that things will be worse if we were independent! Crazy logic!
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Fri 13 Jun 16:46
The bear has done a great job is of demonstrating why Scotland, as part of the union clearly isnt working...
Even if independence isnt the land of milk and honey, it doesnt seem like it could be much worse than the framework we are in just now... and at least we`d get the political parties Scotland votes for, who will have Scotland at the centre of their vision and policies
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