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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Thu 31 Jul 12:31
I can`t emphasise enough how frustrating it has been to read some of the drivel that has appeared on here concerning Ukraine, Russia, Israel and China.
Okay, I live on the other side of the world, but I have tried to alert you to the grim reality that your government and media have been blatantly lying to you.
Time and again, I have provided links to independent sources, most of which are highly reliable. Yes, Russia was kicking the hell out of Ukraine. Yes, Zelenskyy is a crook. And yes, Iran blew Tel Aviv to bits. not just that, but with incredible accuracy, it has taken out many strategic and military targets.
But, hey ho! Over and over again, we hear pro-Zionists saying how strong and invincible Israel is, how little damage Iran achieved in its attacks in June, or space cadets claiming the military ability of NATO will completely overwhelm Russia, because they had friends or teachers who told them so. One guy claims he is a geopolitical expert. Another claims that they have intimate knowledge of air force bases overseas, and that there is no possibility that Britain is helping Israel tee up its targets.
I say, BULLSHIT!
Frankly, I want the Jewish state of Israel to cease to exist. My father was there at the beginning of it all, almost 80 years ago. He favoured the Jews. He had seen Bergen-Belsen. But he came to hate them for their horrific behaviour towards British soldiers. Nothing in their behaviour has changed over many decades.
We have to accept this truth, because today, almost 80 % of Jews in Israel support the destruction of Gaza and the elimination of the people who are there. What is this, if not a holocaust?
And any pr*k who asks me to provide a source can get lost! It`s widely available and comes from the United States. In fact, from a university!
Finally, one more link. Here it. Is:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-ddeAEKK30
No matter what you have seen before, this provides almost all the answers… please watch this.
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Thu 31 Jul 12:58
Quote:
OzPar, Thu 31 Jul 12:31
Another claims that they have intimate knowledge of air force bases overseas, and that there is no possibility that Britain is helping Israel tee up its targets.
I was based at Akrotiri for 5 years. Of course I have intimate knowledge of it. I have some knowledge of Episkopi and Dhekalia having been to both multiple times. I have minimal knowledge of Mount Pleasant Airfield and Ascension.That`s it.
At no point did I claim that there is no possibility Britain is helping Israel tee up targets. They are, the RC-135W`s are being used to locate where hostages may be held. Possibly even Hamas targets, ensuring terrorists are targeted, not civilians. Surely you want to minimise civilian casualties by having accurate intelligence?
I said Britain has no spy planes based at Akrotiri, they don`t.
There are some on detachment to Akrotiri from Waddington.
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Thu 31 Jul 13:08
If what you state is true Oz what about the 20% of people in Israel who don’t support the war in Gaza? Are they to cease to exist? Do their views not matter or are they to be ignored?
There are no winners in this sad situation, and innocent people on both sides are caught up in it all.
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Thu 31 Jul 13:22
Oh, please give it a rest, Buffy. How can you be so clueless? I’m saying the state of Israel should not exist.
Don’t come at me with the “innocent people” argument. I’m not interested.
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Thu 31 Jul 13:26
Quote:
OzPar, Thu 31 Jul 13:22
Oh, please give it a rest, Buffy. How can you be so clueless? I’m saying the state of Israel should not exist.
Don’t come at me with the “innocent people” argument. I’m not interested.
So what do you envisage happening to the 7m+ Israelis?
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Thu 31 Jul 13:41
Quote:
sadindiefreak, Thu 31 Jul 13:26
Quote:
OzPar, Thu 31 Jul 13:22
Oh, please give it a rest, Buffy. How can you be so clueless? I’m saying the state of Israel should not exist.
Don’t come at me with the “innocent people” argument. I’m not interested.
So what do you envisage happening to the 7m+ Israelis?
Maybe they could relocate them to America, a country which seems to be very supportive of them. When they arrive there they can be housed in some Immigration Detainment Centers (like `Alligator Alcatraz`) for processing. This is something that the Israeli Government are quite happy to happen in Gaza, so they will have no problems with it.
Then Israeli could be resettled by peaceful people, and the middle east could go back to being a relatively safe part of the world
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Thu 31 Jul 13:42
sadindiefreak said: At no point did I claim that there is no possibility Britain is helping Israel tee up targets. They are the RC-135Ws that are being used to locate where hostages may be held. Possibly even Hamas targets, ensuring terrorists are targeted, not civilians. Surely you want to minimise civilian casualties by having accurate intelligence? I said Britain has no spy planes based at Akrotiri, they don`t.
There are some on detachment to Akrotiri from Waddington....
====
First, you say the RC-135Ws are being used to locate hostages and possibly Hamas targets, to minimise civilian casualties. While that’s the official line, the reality is that intelligence sharing in conflict zones is rarely that clear-cut.
There’s a long history of “precision” targeting resulting in civilian deaths, either due to faulty intelligence, misidentification, or the fog of war. Simply having advanced surveillance doesn’t guarantee that only terrorists are targeted—especially in densely populated areas like Gaza.
Second, you insist that Britain has no spy planes based at Akrotiri, only those from a detachment at Waddington. But this is a distinction without much practical difference. Whether the aircraft are “permanently based” or “on detachment,” they’re still operating out of Akrotiri and supporting Israeli operations. The technicality of their home base doesn’t change the fact that Britain is actively involved.
Finally, your argument seems to assume that the presence of British surveillance is inherently a force for good, as if it automatically leads to fewer civilian casualties. However, history shows that foreign military involvement often escalates conflicts and can complicate accountability even further.
In summary, the details about where the planes are “based” are less important than the fact that Britain is providing real-time intelligence to Israel, with all the moral and practical complications that entail.
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Thu 31 Jul 13:45
red-star-par,
I am liking you more every day...
:)
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Thu 31 Jul 14:17
Quote:
red-star-par, Thu 31 Jul 13:41
the middle east could go back to being a relatively safe part of the world
Comedy gold. 🤣😂🤣
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Thu 31 Jul 17:16
What an upstart you are, Oz.
I won’t be engaging with you any further either on this or any other forums.
You clearly like the turn of your own words and to hell with everyone else’s.
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Thu 31 Jul 18:41
Quote:
buffy, Thu 31 Jul 17:16
What an upstart you are, Oz.
I won’t be engaging with you any further either on this or any other forums.
You clearly like the turn of your own words and to hell with everyone else’s.
He doesn`t give a XXXX for anything else!
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Thu 31 Jul 19:05
That`s why this forum is the best, some good characters, with differing opinions.
For what it`s worth, I`d say it`s clear the UK is providing military assistance to help Israel carry out genocide in Gaza. The UK Government knew this but they are starting to publicly act like they are a teeny bit outraged now it`s clear that the general public, and people around the world, have had enough of it. The tide has turned on Israel.
I wouldn`t take the word of anyone that`s been employed in the UK Armed Forces in the last couple of decades for anything. They might like to think they are in some kind of galant global peacekeeping force but in my opinion if you sign up for a life in the forces you know what you are getting into. They might not have physically murdered those defenceless babies in Gaza in person but the blood is on their hands.
Must be hard to sleep at night when they fully consider what they are part of
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 31 Jul 19:56
I wouldn`t take the word of anyone in the armed forces either as they`re not allowed to say a lot. However, I would trust when they correct someone. I`d also trust that they`ve potentially put their life on the line or at very least spent a lot of time away from friends and family trying to help this country.
The single biggest issue on this thread is people suggesting they know better. I`m sure people can do more research but the only detail out there is what is allowed to be published. As with all things, the truth comes out much, much later.
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Thu 31 Jul 20:27
What’s going on in Israel is a massacre and shame on them given what their ancestors went through in WW2
The media in the west are complicit in covering up war crimes.
All we hear is October 4th as if all the people in Gaza were in on it.
Israel IDF have flattened Gaza since then and kids are literally starving to death and journalists not allowed in.
They are doing what the Germans did to their ancestors and leaves a very bad taste in the mouth .
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 31 Jul 21:30
Quote:
AdamAntsParsStripe, Thu 31 Jul 20:27
What’s going on in Israel is a massacre and shame on them given what their ancestors went through in WW2
The media in the west are complicit in covering up war crimes.
All we hear is October 4th as if all the people in Gaza were in on it.
Israel IDF have flattened Gaza since then and kids are literally starving to death and journalists not allowed in.
They are doing what the Germans did to their ancestors and leaves a very bad taste in the mouth .
And yet the real truth about the horrors of what happened to Jews and Roma people didn`t come out properly until a few years AFTER Germany lost the war. Few knew just how horrific it was.
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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Fri 1 Aug 19:13
The opening post reminds me of that scene in Better Call Saul with Chuck`s "I`m not crazy!" outburst.
And then the attack on Buffy...
Absolute madness.
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Sat 2 Aug 12:05
Cyclone Jimmy bleated: The opening post reminds me of that scene in Better Call Saul with Chuck`s "I`m not crazy!" outburst.
And then the attack on Buffy... Absolute madness.
===
If you are looking for a movie or a TV show to draw a comparison, it would be more accurate if you chose the film, `Network`, and Peter Finch`s rant where he encourages the viewers to go to their windows and shout, "I am mad as hell and I am not going to take it anymore."
That is pretty close to how I feel about what is happening in Gaza, in Ukraine, and the way you are being manipulated by your media and government in the UK.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sat 2 Aug 12:23
Playing devil`s advocate here - if one side says one thing and another day`s the opposite, how do you know which is true unless you are there experiencing it? Even if you experience it, how do you know the truth.
We`ve got Hamas claiming people are being slaughtered and then the IDF saying "Yes, by YOU!". There`s perhaps a degree of truth in both, but who is being most truthful?
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Sat 2 Aug 12:26
Quote:
jake89, Sat 2 Aug 12:23
Playing devil`s advocate here - if one side says one thing and another day`s the opposite, how do you know which is true unless you are there experiencing it? Even if you experience it, how do you know the truth.
We`ve got Hamas claiming people are being slaughtered and then the IDF saying "Yes, by YOU!". There`s perhaps a degree of truth in both, but who is being most truthful?
The IDF are openly murdering innocents, without any sort of kick back from the world. Hamas may have caused some tragedies, but did they really flatten the entire region to control their people?
Listen to Jeremy Bowens report the other day from inside an aid plane. Not allowed to even film outside the windows.
Let the world’s journalists in……then we may find out the real truth.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sat 2 Aug 12:37
But we only know what is passed down the line.
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Sat 2 Aug 13:18
The truth has been there to see on social media, supplied by incredibly brave Palestinian journalists. However close to 200 are dead now and much of what we see on social media today is from citizens on their phones, medical workers, etc. but it is authentic and often harrowing. Certainly more trustworthy than anything that has gone through a filter in Tel Aviv.
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Sat 2 Aug 14:07
Quote:
jake89, Sat 2 Aug 12:37
But we only know what is passed down the line.
Come on Jake, I dont know if you are being deliberately coy or not, but everyone knows what is happening in Gaza. Look at the BBC News site, where no BBC journalists are allowed into the country, and even they say there is mass starvation and a flattening of the entirety of Gaza ongoing. I
Id rather believe 100 aid agencies on the ground than one army thats hellbent on the destruction of Palestine.
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Sat 2 Aug 19:20
We have seen how a country has been raised to the ground, cities turned into rubble. The fact Israel wouldn`t let Jeremy Bowen look out the window onto the destruction they have caused is telling. They have told people to leave cities and they have flattened them. They have then kettled them into concentration camps and murdered them. They have starved them, then lured the emaciated people with food to shoot them for fun. Their snipers have purposefully shot teenage boys in the genitals for fun. Their Armed Forces have surrounded terrified young girls and women and gang raped them. The people back in Israel rejoice in this depravity. Their politicians say on air that they can`t sleep at night until they see apartment blocks destroyed. They think they are the chosen ones, and that their prey are worth less than dogs.
The governments of the world have turned a blind eye, enabled them to commit these atrocities, funded them, sold them arms.
It seems though, the tide is turning. The people see what they are like. Their true face is going to have to be paid for in kind. They, and those around the world who support them, deserve what is coming to them
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sat 2 Aug 20:02
Quote:
Dave_1885, Sat 2 Aug 14:07
Quote:
jake89, Sat 2 Aug 12:37
But we only know what is passed down the line.
Come on Jake, I dont know if you are being deliberately coy or not, but everyone knows what is happening in Gaza. Look at the BBC News site, where no BBC journalists are allowed into the country, and even they say there is mass starvation and a flattening of the entirety of Gaza ongoing. I
Id rather believe 100 aid agencies on the ground than one army thats hellbent on the destruction of Palestine.
Very much playing devil`s advocate. As I`ve said before in this thread we won`t find out the truth until it`s too late if at all. What might look like one thing on camera could be something completely different.
The depressing thing is regardless of who has done what, innocent lives have been lost.
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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Sun 3 Aug 02:41
Oz,
I genuinely burst out laughing at the claim that I`m "being manipulated by the UK media".
For the record, I read the majority of my news in Swedish, partly to keep my vocab up and mainly because it is quite unbiased considering Sweden has been neutral for about 200 years until very recently. And I`m pretty sure there are no British outlets publishing in Swedish.
Anything in English tends to come from Germany, Japan, Taiwan and sometimes Singapore.
So yeah, try again...
Funnily enough, I`m on the same side as you with Gaza, but I certainly won`t excuse terrorism, be it from Hamas or the Zionists. Or indeed the Y`all Qaeda MAGA lot in the US.
I really don`t understand the infatuation you have with Putin and the CCP. You are either blissfully unaware of or willfully ignoring the systematic corruption in these states. Of course though, you`ll claim "Corruption is everywhere" which isn`t wrong but little other than a tacit deflection.
Pretty much everything you have posted about Ukraine is a Kremlin talking point that can be found with relative ease on government-linked Telegram channels.
China, you are simply clueless. My first job in HK was with a company where, as it turned out, the company didn`t have the proper licensing and was caught lying to the authorities about said licensing. Strangely, the boss was a former HK Police inspector and, funnily enough, the company are still operating despite the two year time lapse. The only way that happens in HK is with a back-hander and through my current job, you see that these sorts of activities are rife in the Mainland. The new company I`m with deals with companies that are moving out of China which is happening at considerable pace, particularly due to the country being on the cusp of a demographic crisis and in the middle of an economic slowdown. Funnily enough, Chinese media outlets are rather reluctant to talk about this - why do you think that might be?
Simply put, China is the land of shortcuts and facades, pure and simple. And sorry, but I do know more about China than you.
And yes, I studied Russia and China fairly in depth through different courses I did in Sweden with Lund University, with a number of the teachers being advisors to the Swedish Government. Are the Swedish Universities running a brainwashing conspiracy now that everyone bar you is blissfully unaware of?
Honestly, you are getting more ridiculous with every post. And the playground name-calling does you no favours.
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Topic Originator: DunfyDave
Date: Sun 3 Aug 10:04
Oz, there are massive demonstrations being held in many UK cities on regular occurrences against the brutality and heavy-handed Israel offensive against Gaza.
I would go as far to say that most British people are utterly shocked and disgusted at the level of brutality.
The British leadership mis-read this sentiment towards Gaza and found themselves mis-aligned with the public mood but things do seem to be albeit slowly changing on that front.
The people on this island are NOT naive to what is going on.
DunfyDave
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Mon 4 Aug 00:58
DunfyDave, I have never suggested that Brits are ignorant of the brutality of Gaza. Many British voices have been raised against it on social media. What I have consistently said is that the government and media have largely been evasive in their coverage of these events.
There was a brief moment of openness when George Galloway won that by-election and started to ask tough questions in the Commons. But, outside that, the Labour Government (and the Tory opposition) has been disgraceful in their unswerving support of Israel.
As for the media, it has been appalling.
Yes, I agree that there has been more accurate coverage lately. Still, only very recently, and with extraordinary unity, they have all come out together to attack what`s going on in Gaza—as if someone somewhere has turned a tap on, or withdrawn a "D" Notice.
The behaviour of the BBC has been horrendous. Once upon a time, it was the watchword in journalism. Now it is a lesson in what not to do. Recently, we discovered that a very senior figure in BBC News was actively toning down or deleting negative references to Israel. As if we couldn`t tell! Then we had that documentary on Gaza, commissioned by the BBC, but withdrawn from broadcast at the last moment.
Meanwhile, month after month on social media, the first-hand evidence of the atrocities was being shown in all its horror, totally contradicting the official line from the government and media.
That`s the point I was trying to make. If I failed to do so, I apologise.
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Topic Originator: DunfyDave
Date: Mon 4 Aug 10:43
No need to apologise Oz and thank you for clarifying your position.
In all honesty, I agree with you.
I would hasten to add though that the mood does appear to be changing in the UK, albeit slowly.
Our political elite do seem to be drawing some attention from the mass protests of the British public whom are no fools to the attrocities occurring in Gaza.
Why our politicians took so long 🤷♂️
DunfyDave
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Topic Originator: Tenruh
Date: Tue 5 Aug 07:02
Quote:
hurricane_jimmy, Sun 3 Aug 02:41
Oz,
I genuinely burst out laughing at the claim that I`m "being manipulated by the UK media".
For the record, I read the majority of my news in Swedish, partly to keep my vocab up and mainly because it is quite unbiased considering Sweden has been neutral for about 200 years until very recently. And I`m pretty sure there are no British outlets publishing in Swedish.
Anything in English tends to come from Germany, Japan, Taiwan and sometimes Singapore.
So yeah, try again...
Funnily enough, I`m on the same side as you with Gaza, but I certainly won`t excuse terrorism, be it from Hamas or the Zionists. Or indeed the Y`all Qaeda MAGA lot in the US.
I really don`t understand the infatuation you have with Putin and the CCP. You are either blissfully unaware of or willfully ignoring the systematic corruption in these states. Of course though, you`ll claim "Corruption is everywhere" which isn`t wrong but little other than a tacit deflection.
Pretty much everything you have posted about Ukraine is a Kremlin talking point that can be found with relative ease on government-linked Telegram channels.
China, you are simply clueless. My first job in HK was with a company where, as it turned out, the company didn`t have the proper licensing and was caught lying to the authorities about said licensing. Strangely, the boss was a former HK Police inspector and, funnily enough, the company are still operating despite the two year time lapse. The only way that happens in HK is with a back-hander and through my current job, you see that these sorts of activities are rife in the Mainland. The new company I`m with deals with companies that are moving out of China which is happening at considerable pace, particularly due to the country being on the cusp of a demographic crisis and in the middle of an economic slowdown. Funnily enough, Chinese media outlets are rather reluctant to talk about this - why do you think that might be?
Simply put, China is the land of shortcuts and facades, pure and simple. And sorry, but I do know more about China than you.
And yes, I studied Russia and China fairly in depth through different courses I did in Sweden with Lund University, with a number of the teachers being advisors to the Swedish Government. Are the Swedish Universities running a brainwashing conspiracy now that everyone bar you is blissfully unaware of?
Honestly, you are getting more ridiculous with every post. And the playground name-calling does you no favours.
Where are the companies that are moving out of China moving to?
The monetary system that China,India,Brazil etc have, do you think that`ll be a success?
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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Wed 6 Aug 01:06
Tenruh, a lot of the manufacturing in China is moving to India, Indonesia and Vietnam because of cheaper labour and freer markets. Singapore is taking up a lot of the financial and services stuff but both seem to be jostling for the titles of "Asia`s finance hub".
Places like Philippines and Thailand should be doing better on honesty and taking advantage of the situation but they`ve struggled with development for a good while because of corruption and just government bodies not being that reliable. Especially the former when you consider that English is widely spoken.
The simple fact is that the Chinese economy is in pretty bad shape at the moment, particularly because of the collapse of the real estate bubble, growing youth unemployment and the demographic issues arising from the one child policy and an ageing population. And that`s even with the doctored figures that are put out there. Hong Kong has basically declined since the British left, mainly due to Chinese encroachment although it wasn`t helped by the Asian and then the global financial crash.
There are numerous incidents of workers burning down factories etc because their employers haven`t paid them for months, often because they can`t since the economy is in such a bad way. Very often these can be found on Chinese social media sites like Douyin and the authorities attempt to remove them but photos and videos are often saved by Taiwanese and others.
You see similar things with kids smashing up schools because of teachers covering up abuse of students etc and the same with real estate offices because people have lost their money because of the pre-buy schemes that have been used for donkeys.
Youth unemployment is a huge problem and there are people with master degrees and higher running around working as the "yellow bike delivery guys", which you see everywhere in the major cities.
Interestingly there are a lot of Chinese scam and gambling companies operating in places like Cambodia and Laos too which are fairly well-documented but these are left alone, likely due to affiliations with party officials. If you ever go to Macau then you`re not allowed to photograph or film inside the casinos, very likely for that same reason as gambling is illegal in Mainland China.
But aye, long story short, China tries to project itself one way but the reality is far different.
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Wed 6 Aug 20:22
India and even China is going the same was as Japan for example (who are very expensive now).
They started off as the cheap option, middle classes started to demand more and then the places we outsourced to, in turn outsource to Philippines, Indonesia etc
Post Edited (Wed 06 Aug 20:22)
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Sat 9 Aug 04:02
Typhoon Jimmy said, "China, you are simply clueless. My first job in HK was with a company where, as it turned out, the company didn`t have the proper licensing and was caught lying to the authorities about said licensing... companies that are moving out of China which is happening at considerable pace, particularly due to the country being on the cusp of a demographic crisis and in the middle of an economic slowdown. Funnily enough, Chinese media outlets are rather reluctant to talk about this - why do you think that might be?
Simply put, China is the land of shortcuts and facades, pure and simple. And sorry, but I do know more about China than you."
===
I don`t dismiss that your experiences were real, but they remain your experiences, not the sum total of an entire country. China, like any nation, has its share of problems and its share of successes. Broad generalisations risk saying more about you than the place itself.
I`m clueless? Perhaps. But, I have travelled to several parts of China over an extended period. I first visited Shanghai in 1983 and last visited it in 2017. I have therefore had the opportunity to witness firsthand the remarkable changes and advances that have occurred there. I don`t doubt that there is corruption. But, heck, there`s corruption in Britain, in Australia!
My daughter lived in Hong Kong for seven years, where she worked as a corporate lawyer. Part of her job was to travel with clients to cities like Dongguan and Guangzhou to inspect manufacturers for counterfeit products. There is no denying that it has been a major problem for many years.
My son is an engineer involved in advanced cell therapy manufacturing. He is currently in Beijing. As you say, there may well be manufacturers moving out of China. I would suggest that they are low-end manufacturers, where cost, not quality, is the key factor. However, they are being rapidly replaced by high-end manufacturers due to China`s excellent education system and its progressive policies on new technology. In high-end manufacturing, China is far and away the most advanced in the world.
Perhaps, as a counter to the dystopian picture you draw of China, I should quote from a text I received from my son this morning from Beijing:-
"I imagine it was a manic time while they were expanding so rapidly in the 1990s and 2000s, but they seem to have dialled it to the most tranquil living. Silent streets, with all the convenience of the Western world and then some - peaceful is an accurate description. If you want to see what life could be like in 30 years, it`s worth a trip here. Cheap to live too. Public transportation is great, taxis are affordable, and food is reasonably priced. It is the kind of place where you can wing it and feel completely comfortable that you`ll get yourself home safe at the end of the day."
Post Edited (Sat 09 Aug 04:07)
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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Mon 8 Sep 17:40
Oz, apologies, it seems I lost track of this one and the last few weeks have been incredibly busy with work.
Again though, you are repeating many of the empty platitudes regarding China that I have criticised you for before.
Admittedly, seeing the apparent progress that China appears to have made in recent years could indeed lead one to believe that they are "going to take over the world", but if you actually look beyond the facades and see what is going on then that is quite far from the truth. This is where you are letting yourself down.
I`ve travelled to Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Beijing, Shanghai, Chengdu, Chongqing, Xi`an, Kunming, Hangzhou, Suzhou, Harbin, Tianjin and even more that I can`t remember with work. It is INCREDIBLY easy to get mesmerised with the LEDs and empty skyscrapers in these Tier 1 and Tier 2 cities, but this really just covers up what is really going on. Only about 30% of the population is urbanised, which is nothing when it comes to economic development. The simple fact is that China will get old before it gets rich and they could have made a far better bash at things without the CCP.
As for high end manufacturing and China being the best in the world...I think Japan, Korea and Taiwan might have a thing or two to say about that and this has been demonstrated time and again. And if you want to talk about the differences in quality control between these 3 and China, then there is absolutely no comparison - Chinese QC is widely regarded as "Happy with Crappy" in many quarters over here. Indeed, much of the improvements made in China in recent times were due to principles adopted from the three aforementioned countries, but of course the Chinese will never admit that.
It is genuinely worrying how eager you are to side with totalitarian regimes, such as those of Putin and Xi, when you claim to have had such an illustrious career in the media.
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Topic Originator: thebear
Date: Fri 12 Sep 12:23
Israel need to go back to original borders, and probldm gors away.
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