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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 29 May 11:58
That`s an interesting read. The bank holiday thing hadn`t occurred to me despite it being an old trick.
I remember Chapman raising his concerns. Why was nothing done when he - and others - were flagging that they couldn`t complete their jobs as information was being hidden? Even if you disregard that NS was married to PM, she was the party leader!
It`s a separate matter, but I expect an independence party to be pushing independence at every opportunity. The main focus over the last parliamentary term seemed to be more about who gets to use what toilet!
Is there an opportunity to develop an independence alliance with a new party that isn`t just a load of ex-SNP candidates? I`m aware there are other parties already but they`re very poorly represented and supported.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 29 May 14:34
He`s claimng NS had the Scottish media eating oiut of her hand so all participants and observers were complicit in a cover-up! It seems like Trumpism has crossed the Atlantic.
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Topic Originator: Aaron Labonte
Date: Fri 29 May 15:50
Quote:
wee eck, Fri 29 May 14:34
He`s claimng NS had the Scottish media eating oiut of her hand so all participants and observers were complicit in a cover-up! It seems like Trumpism has crossed the Atlantic.
How, because it doesn`t suit your narrative? If this whole debacle happened in America, and you replace sturgeon and Murrell with the trumps, would you be so quick to defend them?
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 29 May 16:16
What about your `narrative`? Or are you neutral? I`m not defending Murrell at all but I`d like to hear the reasons why the Police and the Prosecution Service decided not to charge Sturgeon.
I don`t think I`ve seen much evidence of the Scottish media taking Nicola Sturgeon`s side on anything, so to suggest they were complicit in some plot to protect her seems just a wee bit far-fetched to me.
Post Edited (Fri 29 May 16:33)
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Fri 29 May 19:41
It`s strange that a Chinese spy`s wife, who is a sitting MP doesn`t get the same hassle!
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Fri 29 May 20:03
Theres not a chance she knew heehaw about it all…….but I suppose thats up for the courts/cps to try to decide.
Doesn’t mean that everyone within the SNP hierarchy was in on it though.
Thats what they say about thieves though - they start small and increase it as they get braver, until eventually they get caught!
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Fri 29 May 20:18
Well, the fact they can`t charge those two guys with ABH for attacking that police officer at Manchester Airport suggests getting things to court , never mind a successful prosecution, is rather tricky!
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Fri 29 May 20:50
Quote:
ipswichpar, Fri 29 May 20:18
Well, the fact they can`t charge those two guys with ABH for attacking that police officer at Manchester Airport suggests getting things to court , never mind a successful prosecution, is rather tricky!
That was also their second trial wasn’t it? Maybe they just didn’t manage to prove their guilt?
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 29 May 21:16
One of the brothers was found guilty last year at a trial and will now be sentenced. This was a retrial to see if the jury could this time reach a verdict on the assault against a particular police officer by both brothers. They couldn`t.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower
Date: Fri 29 May 22:01
Well, many of the participants got a roasting on HIGNFY tonight.
Obviously, I was never a big fan of NS, but I think this has been a long time coming.
I think there has been a retrenchment of views on NS – perhaps some people may have decided that instead of walking on water she actually has feet of clay. Plus there will be those who feel they have been slighted in the past and are taking the chance for revenge now that she appears on the way down. some media outlets tend to reflect public opinion rather than drive it and she will be suffering from the change in the tide.
There have been well-documented structural issues in the SNP for some time – having a married couple as two of the three executive officers, and the party policy of prohibiting the criticism of elected members have both led to the difficulty of challenging those at the top (this was evident in the Salmond affair as well).
In addition you have the weak leadership exemplified by appointing old mates and “yes men (and women)” to top jobs. No leader likes criticism – most seem to be able to handle it better than NS did.
But to an extent, the mishandling of the money was an internal affair (the receipt of large amounts of public money notwithstanding). But absolutely yes, when NS talked that nonsense about the accounts being “managed on a cash-flow basis” and suggesting that because they had been lodged with the Electoral Commission there couldn’t possibly have been an issue, I think this should have been pursued, but the media (in particular the print media) has been hollowed out to such an extent that they don’t seem to have the resources or inclination or understanding to follow up. It’s also difficult to get anywhere in the face of relentless stonewalling and the aggressive media management of the likes of Kevin Pringle.
I’d also add party members and the electorate to the list of villains – did they not have a responsibility too?
And I had a look at the list of purchases – I think it was 57(!) pages long. To quote David Coleman, it was quite extraordinary.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 29 May 22:21
The electorate and party members are also culpable? That`s just plainly ridiculous MT.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Sat 30 May 06:01
Quote:
Dave_1885, Fri 29 May 20:50
Quote:
ipswichpar, Fri 29 May 20:18
Well, the fact they can`t charge those two guys with ABH for attacking that police officer at Manchester Airport suggests getting things to court , never mind a successful prosecution, is rather tricky!
That was also their second trial wasn’t it? Maybe they just didn’t manage to prove their guilt?
Yes, second trial for assault on one specific officer. Already found guilty on assault on another two officers and a member of the public with sentencing next month.
Given the actual footage of them actually hitting the officer it seemed pretty straightforward to me. Certainly clearer footage than some recent VAR decisions in my mind, at least.
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Sat 30 May 08:13
That the electorate continues to prefer the SNP over the alternatives is a frankly damning indication of the unelectability of the alternatives, and that`s unlikely to change until the other other parties stop lashing out and start looking at themselves in the mirror.
“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
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Topic Originator: Tenruh
Date: Sat 30 May 11:32
Quote:
Wotsit, Sat 30 May 08:13
That the electorate continues to prefer the SNP over the alternatives is a frankly damning indication of the unelectability of the alternatives, and that`s unlikely to change until the other other parties stop lashing out and start looking at themselves in the mirror.
The other parties other than the greens are against independence so it`s fair to say they`re unlikely to off an alternative to the SNP.
The greens are making inroads with their kid-on independence strategy they exercise prior to Holyrood elections. For example they for the first time stood on the constituency ticket and got 2 seats taking out Angus Robertson (brill) and one other.
The SNP lost 6 constituency seats and only won 1 list seat.Their total vote collapsed by 10% so people hopefully are paying attention.
Oh and any action promised by the SNP towards a referendum were buried last Tuesday, just awaiting a rubber stamp from Starmer unless of course Sturgeon passed on to Swinney her secret plan...
And they say a week`s a long time in politics.
Post Edited (Sat 30 May 11:34)
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 30 May 11:41
You criticise Swinney & Co for having no Plan B but we`re still waiting to hear what your Plan A is.
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sat 30 May 11:57
Swinney and co are the ones proposing the change so the onus is on them to have a plan for change. Not the other way about 🤷🏻♂️
COYP
Post Edited (Sat 30 May 11:57)
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Sat 30 May 12:02
Quote:
Tenruh, Sat 30 May 11:32
Quote:
Wotsit, Sat 30 May 08:13
That the electorate continues to prefer the SNP over the alternatives is a frankly damning indication of the unelectability of the alternatives, and that`s unlikely to change until the other other parties stop lashing out and start looking at themselves in the mirror.
The other parties other than the greens are against independence so it`s fair to say they`re unlikely to off an alternative to the SNP.
The greens are making inroads with their kid-on independence strategy they exercise prior to Holyrood elections. For example they for the first time stood on the constituency ticket and got 2 seats taking out Angus Robertson (brill) and one other.
The SNP lost 6 constituency seats and only won 1 list seat.Their total vote collapsed by 10% so people hopefully are paying attention.
Oh and any action promised by the SNP towards a referendum were buried last Tuesday, just awaiting a rubber stamp from Starmer unless of course Sturgeon passed on to Swinney her secret plan...
And they say a week`s a long time in politics.
This is exactly the sort of rhetoric that`s maintaining the SNP/Green grip on Holyrood: knee-jerk attacks on the opposition whilst offering nothing whatsoever by way of alternative.
Folk who vote SNP or Green know that they`re not perfect, but an imperfect solution is better than the nothing the others are offering (and have been for decades,) even as the world continues to burn.
“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
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Topic Originator: Tenruh
Date: Sat 30 May 12:35
Quote:
Wotsit, Sat 30 May 12:02
Quote:
Tenruh, Sat 30 May 11:32
Quote:
Wotsit, Sat 30 May 08:13
That the electorate continues to prefer the SNP over the alternatives is a frankly damning indication of the unelectability of the alternatives, and that`s unlikely to change until the other other parties stop lashing out and start looking at themselves in the mirror.
The other parties other than the greens are against independence so it`s fair to say they`re unlikely to off an alternative to the SNP.
The greens are making inroads with their kid-on independence strategy they exercise prior to Holyrood elections. For example they for the first time stood on the constituency ticket and got 2 seats taking out Angus Robertson (brill) and one other.
The SNP lost 6 constituency seats and only won 1 list seat.Their total vote collapsed by 10% so people hopefully are paying attention.
Oh and any action promised by the SNP towards a referendum were buried last Tuesday, just awaiting a rubber stamp from Starmer unless of course Sturgeon passed on to Swinney her secret plan...
And they say a week`s a long time in politics.
This is exactly the sort of rhetoric that`s maintaining the SNP/Green grip on Holyrood: knee-jerk attacks on the opposition whilst offering nothing whatsoever by way of alternative.
Folk who vote SNP or Green know that they`re not perfect, but an imperfect solution is better than the nothing the others are offering (and have been for decades,) even as the world continues to burn.
Aye right , both parties stand on the independent ticket and within a week of getting elected independence is abandoned for another 5 years...
Ever get the feeling you`ve been cheated?
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 30 May 12:39
`Swinney and co are the ones proposing the change so the onus is on them to have a plan for change. Not the other way about 🤷🏻♂️`
As far as I know, Tenruh wants change. He criticises the SNP and the Greens but he never suggests an alternative.
Westminster`s approval is required for a democratic referendum but they never set any parameters so they can veto any request on a whim. Any unionists who might think this is undemocratic just turn a deaf ear because it supports the status quo.
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Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower
Date: Sat 30 May 12:40
The electorate and party members are also culpable? That`s just plainly ridiculous MT.
I think people have a responsibility for how they cast their vote, TOWK, and for the consequences. Who voted the elected officials in? The SNP membership. To be fair, having reread Robin McAlpine’s piece, he has a go at the membership as well, but for keeping schtum.
Blaming the electorate is more tenuous, but if you’re blaming the media for not doing anything then you could argue that those who put the SNP in power have responsibility. I would absolutely blame people who voted for Brexit (for example) for the consequences of being out of Europe.
Sure, Peter Murrell must carry the can, but I don’t think it is true to claim that others have no responsibility whatsoever (the failure to take responsibility for anything is another party failing, IMO) and this is one of Mr McAlpine’s arguments.
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Topic Originator: Tenruh
Date: Sat 30 May 12:44
Quote:
wee eck, Sat 30 May 11:41
You criticise Swinney & Co for having no Plan B but we`re still waiting to hear what your Plan A is.
You do realise they get paid on the basis they fulfil their manifesto promises.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 30 May 12:48
Any Scottish voter knows that in the present UK set-up a Scottish government can`t achieve independence without the co-operation of Westminster.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 30 May 13:00
`Blaming the electorate is more tenuous, but if you’re blaming the media for not doing anything then you could argue that those who put the SNP in power have responsibility. I would absolutely blame people who voted for Brexit (for example) for the consequences of being out of Europe.`
I don`t get this argument at all. Couldn`t this embezzlement have happened if the SNP were in opposition rather than in power? The comparison with Brexit isn`t valid in my opinion. That decision was taken in a referendum where people were voting `yes` or `no` on one issue unlike in a general election where they could be influenced by many issues.
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sat 30 May 13:13
Quote:
wee eck, Sat 30 May 12:39
`Swinney and co are the ones proposing the change so the onus is on them to have a plan for change. Not the other way about 🤷🏻♂️`
As far as I know, Tenruh wants change. He criticises the SNP and the Greens but he never suggests an alternative.
Westminster`s approval is required for a democratic referendum but they never set any parameters so they can veto any request on a whim. Any unionists who might think this is undemocratic just turn a deaf ear because it supports the status quo.
Do you think he should start his own political party?
What are you asking off him?
The whole Westminster is stopping us thing is just rhetoric. They don’t have a mandate for independence. Pro independence parties might have taken a majority of seats but that’s very different to a majority of vote share. I mean if you want another referendum about independence now, would it be worth it? Pro Independence parties are only taking around 40% of the votes.
The same issues they lost on are still big issues and some of the issues we were strong on, we now look weaker on 🤷🏻♂️ I can’t say there’s one thing that Scotland has got better at since indyref 1.
COYP
Post Edited (Sat 30 May 13:25)
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 30 May 13:22
You don`t have to start your own football team to have ideas about how the game should be played. It`s a forum to share ideas on.
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sat 30 May 13:26
Quote:
wee eck, Sat 30 May 13:22
You don`t have to start your own football team to have ideas about how the game should be played. It`s a forum to share ideas on.
Sorry I started editing my reply then got taken away by something.
Still my point still stands, are you wanting him to lay out policies?
What are your policies?
COYP
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 30 May 13:46
I think we should be putting pressure on to get some criteria set down in statute as to when a referendum should be granted.
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Sat 30 May 15:10
With the same defining when a new referendum should happen to rejoin the UK if folk change their mind?
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 30 May 15:20
Presumably the Unionists wouldn`t be happy with `once in a generation`.
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Sat 30 May 15:54
Well, if that was what they agreed to, I am sure that they would stick to it rather than banging on about it all the time.
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sat 30 May 16:16
Quote:
ipswichpar, Sat 30 May 15:54
Well, if that was what they agreed to, I am sure that they would stick to it rather than banging on about it all the time.
As much as I’m an independence supporter, I actually agree with you.
What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
I think we’re a decade away from an independence referendum.
How can you say you’re an independence supporter but say we’re a decade away from a referendum and agree with Ipswichpars point?
Well my point of view is I don’t want to weaken the country further for no good reason. I want Scotland to be on an upward trajectory not a downward path. The union holds us back from independent improvement but we also benefit from having the support of a bigger economy when it’s going wrong. At the moment, it’s going wrong and nobody can argue with the facts when they’re put simply and in context.
I definitely believe Scotlands future will be political independence from England and vice versa but we need to have a coherent financial strategy, we need to know how we’re going to play our part in the defence of the North Atlantic and we need some competent governance. None of which are on offer at the moment from Holyrood but all of which we are actually in a better position while inside the United Kingdom. As much as some say that’s not the case, they can’t offer a better solution 🤷🏻♂️
COYP
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sat 30 May 16:45
Quote:
NMCmassive, Sat 30 May 16:16
Quote:
ipswichpar, Sat 30 May 15:54
Well, if that was what they agreed to, I am sure that they would stick to it rather than banging on about it all the time.
As much as I’m an independence supporter, I actually agree with you.
What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
I think we’re a decade away from an independence referendum.
How can you say you’re an independence supporter but say we’re a decade away from a referendum and agree with Ipswichpars point?
Well my point of view is I don’t want to weaken the country further for no good reason. I want Scotland to be on an upward trajectory not a downward path. The union holds us back from independent improvement but we also benefit from having the support of a bigger economy when it’s going wrong. At the moment, it’s going wrong and nobody can argue with the facts when they’re put simply and in context.
I definitely believe Scotlands future will be political independence from England and vice versa but we need to have a coherent financial strategy, we need to know how we’re going to play our part in the defence of the North Atlantic and we need some competent governance. None of which are on offer at the moment from Holyrood but all of which we are actually in a better position while inside the United Kingdom. As much as some say that’s not the case, they can’t offer a better solution 🤷🏻♂️
Almost all those decisions would be for whichever party is in power to make, not the SNP.
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sat 30 May 19:22
Quote:
jake89, Sat 30 May 16:45
Quote:
NMCmassive, Sat 30 May 16:16
Quote:
ipswichpar, Sat 30 May 15:54
Well, if that was what they agreed to, I am sure that they would stick to it rather than banging on about it all the time.
As much as I’m an independence supporter, I actually agree with you.
What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
I think we’re a decade away from an independence referendum.
How can you say you’re an independence supporter but say we’re a decade away from a referendum and agree with Ipswichpars point?
Well my point of view is I don’t want to weaken the country further for no good reason. I want Scotland to be on an upward trajectory not a downward path. The union holds us back from independent improvement but we also benefit from having the support of a bigger economy when it’s going wrong. At the moment, it’s going wrong and nobody can argue with the facts when they’re put simply and in context.
I definitely believe Scotlands future will be political independence from England and vice versa but we need to have a coherent financial strategy, we need to know how we’re going to play our part in the defence of the North Atlantic and we need some competent governance. None of which are on offer at the moment from Holyrood but all of which we are actually in a better position while inside the United Kingdom. As much as some say that’s not the case, they can’t offer a better solution 🤷🏻♂️
Almost all those decisions would be for whichever party is in power to make, not the SNP.
That’s kind of irrelevant though. They’re supposed to offer something to make us want to vote for independence and they’re not.
We won’t get independence because we might not have the SNP in government. At the moment they’re the biggest political party in Scotland so would it be correct to assume that they wouldn’t have control of the early independent Scottish government?
COYP
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sat 30 May 22:04
The SNP likely get a large number of votes from those who see no other option for independence.
After independence is gained they will serve no purpose.
The other option would be the Greens but they`ve immediately gone in on trans issues (again) rather than green issues.
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Sun 31 May 06:33
I’ve said it before and say it again.
The Scottish Government should be seeking international pressure to force a London based Parliament to grant a democratic referendum.
The louder the noise from outside, the better the chances someone will listen.
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par
Date: Sun 31 May 07:26
Sturgeon is just another crooked politician who got found out and is now using improbable deniability to maintain her victim status.
She is part of the blob now.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sun 31 May 07:38
Is Trump part of this `blob`? He never takes responsibility for anything.
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Sun 31 May 08:02
Quote:
Bletchley_Par, Sun 31 May 07:26
Sturgeon is just another crooked politician who got found out and is now using improbable deniability to maintain her victim status.
She is part of the blob now.
Being punished for a crime she didn`t commit.... feels like the start of The A Team.
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Topic Originator: Aaron Labonte
Date: Sun 31 May 08:06
More whataboutery
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 31 May 12:59
Quote:
ipswichpar, Sun 31 May 08:02
Quote:
Bletchley_Par, Sun 31 May 07:26
Sturgeon is just another crooked politician who got found out and is now using improbable deniability to maintain her victim status.
She is part of the blob now.
Being punished for a crime she didn`t commit.... feels like the start of The A Team.
If you have a campervan, and you can find it, maybe you can drive...to A-berdeen
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Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par
Date: Sun 31 May 13:00
Look behind you!
A three headed Trump!!!
Quick Nicki, run while they are not looking.
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sun 31 May 16:22
Let’s be honest, nobody in that A team would see, remember or know anything
It would be more like the “eh? Team”
COYP
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Topic Originator: Tenruh
Date: Mon 1 Jun 06:36
When the concerns started.
The referendum fund was launched on March 2017, initially it was thought there was only one fund for SNP members only , but there was actually two funds ,the other for independence supporters who were non members of the SNP.
It was other money Murrell spent prior to 2017, so whatever has happened to the bulk of the referendum fundraiser.
This has a long way to play out.
It took 10 years to wreck the independence movement and Sturgeon’s moving to London to be de-briefed.
https://www.facebook.com/share/v/17VuKx3HiW/
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-view-from-row-z/
Post Edited (Mon 01 Jun 06:51)
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Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower
Date: Fri 5 Jun 13:48
I don`t get this argument at all. Couldn`t this embezzlement have happened if the SNP were in opposition rather than in power? The comparison with Brexit isn`t valid in my opinion. That decision was taken in a referendum where people were voting `yes` or `no` on one issue unlike in a general election where they could be influenced by many issues.
I was trying to make two (relatively minor, it should be said) points.
One, voters should bear responsibility for the way they cast their votes. It`s not a game.
Two, if Robin McAlpine is in the game of casting blame all over the shop, there are some potential candidates that I thought he had missed out.
Referendums (referenda??) are clearly different from “normal” elections, but they are comparable IMO. In a referendum there are loads of arguments, which crystallise into one decision.
So it is with an election but there may be more options. Personalities will be involved. You may perceive your favourite candidate has little chance. You may wish to send a short term message. But it’s still your responsibility, and your vote will be treated by the party as a “mandate”, even for things that you don’t agree with and may not even have been in their manifesto, or their power to give.
On the second, yes, the embezzlement could still have happened with the SNP in opposition, possibly not to the same degree (there would have been less money), but to an extent a vote for the SNP would be interpreted as an endorsement, and they would have been empowered and emboldened by winning. I don’t pretend it’s a strong argument, but voting has consequences.
I believe that on the second occasion Colin Beattie was only elected by default as best placed loser when Douglas Chapman resigned, but he seem to have been hood-winked rather easily.
Meanwhile, it seems that Murrell`s embezzlement started slowly, cranked up about 2016 and really took off after questions started being asked (and shut down) about the missing IndyRef2 funds.
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Fri 5 Jun 19:36
Who shut down the questions? 🤷🏻♂️
COYP
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Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower
Date: Sat 6 Jun 20:30
Who shut down the questions?
Well, there’s a video clip of Nicola doing the rounds, where she tells people not to suggest that there is anything amiss. Joanna Cherry has accused Kirsten Oswald of not allowing challenge at the NEC.
Remember, this is a party that banned MPs from criticising the party (in other parties this seems to be compulsory...).
This Stalinist approach to party discipline has had its inevitable consequence.
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sat 6 Jun 20:50
You mean to tell me the same person who had MP’s sacked from the party, was the same person who told everyone to stop asking questions, was the same person who was married to the guy who was in charge of the money?
Well I doubt there’s anything else dodgy about her actions…
COYP
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Topic Originator: Tenruh
Date: Sun 7 Jun 07:14
Quote:
NMCmassive, Sat 6 Jun 20:50
You mean to tell me the same person who had MP’s sacked from the party, was the same person who told everyone to stop asking questions, was the same person who was married to the guy who was in charge of the money?
Well I doubt there’s anything else dodgy about her actions…
Yip the same person who introduced so many hurdles to deny Joanna Cherry the opportunity to stand in the 2021 Holyrood elections but the conditions forced on JC removed this recent election to accommodate Flynn and Gethins.
Flynn,Gethins, Sturgeon or Cherry there`s only one individual there that would have fought to get us Independence, the others are all compromised.
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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Sun 7 Jun 09:25
Still reckon Cherry would make a great first minister and I do hope that she considers a return as she has a habit of snagging Westminster up!
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 7 Jun 19:32
Quote:
hurricane_jimmy, Sun 7 Jun 09:25
Still reckon Cherry would make a great first minister and I do hope that she considers a return as she has a habit of snagging Westminster up!
100%. She also seems to consider the obsession with Trans rights as taking up too much time, which it is. Tiny proportion of people. You don`t see the Greens raising issues for other minorities like gypsy travellers.
Completely support people to do what they want provided it`s not hurting anyone, but let`s focus on sorting out deprivation, education, social care etc first.
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Mon 8 Jun 19:53
I don`t think I understand your point jake - are you saying that no government should address anything else until poverty, education and social care are sorted?
“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Mon 8 Jun 20:10
Quote:
Wotsit, Mon 8 Jun 19:53
I don`t think I understand your point jake - are you saying that no government should address anything else until poverty, education and social care are sorted?
Those are just examples of things that are bigger priorities than determining which toilets can be used by who, which affects 0.44% of people in Scotland (or 0.07% trans women, given this is seen as the group of greatest concern).
While I appreciate the needs of trans people, those needs shouldn`t take precedence over issues affecting far more, including the 20% of kids in Scotland brought up in poverty or the 2000 people each day who are stuck on hospital wards because there`s no-one to sort their care plan or care setting to return to.
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Tue 9 Jun 13:54
But there are loads of little things that government, at various levels, has to deal with and loads of them do not directly impact the majority - what percentage of the population has a hospital stay each year for example?
Education is another one - how many of us are attending university in any given year?
What about the issues that only impact island communities - how many folk live in the Western Isles, yet there has been a lot of focus on ferries: are we not supposed to discuss the mess that`s been made of the ferries because so few folk are impacted?
Different people have different priorities, and sometimes we have to look at the priorities of, often tiny, minorities because we live in a society that believes (or, rather, believed) in protecting the rights of everyone, even smaller minorities.
“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sun 21 Jun 01:50
Aye so we can only address issues if we allow trans folk to have more rights than non-trans folk?
Infrastructure, Defence, policing, NHS and a whole host of other things that require a large amount of time and attention but we should focus our efforts on trans rights…
COYP
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 21 Jun 12:40
Quote:
Wotsit, Tue 9 Jun 13:54
But there are loads of little things that government, at various levels, has to deal with and loads of them do not directly impact the majority - what percentage of the population has a hospital stay each year for example?
Education is another one - how many of us are attending university in any given year?
What about the issues that only impact island communities - how many folk live in the Western Isles, yet there has been a lot of focus on ferries: are we not supposed to discuss the mess that`s been made of the ferries because so few folk are impacted?
Different people have different priorities, and sometimes we have to look at the priorities of, often tiny, minorities because we live in a society that believes (or, rather, believed) in protecting the rights of everyone, even smaller minorities.
Missed this at the time.
25x more people will experience a hospital stay, 5x as many people rely on ferries and 8-9x are at university in comparison to the percentage of trans people.
Regardless, you need to look at how severe an issue is and how big an issue it's causing people. How many people are using public toilets on a daily basis? How many experience issues if they go into the toilet of their assigned sex at birth?
Post Edited (Sun 21 Jun 12:48)
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