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 Good riddance
Topic Originator: calpar  
Date:   Sat 1 Dec 13:04

Scum
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 Re: Good riddance
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Sat 1 Dec 13:08

That must win the award for most obscure rant of the year.
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 Re: Good riddance
Topic Originator: calpar  
Date:   Sat 1 Dec 13:15

Aye, rich, coming from yoo
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 Re: Good riddance
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Sat 1 Dec 13:16

Was there a link?what topic are you ranting about.
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 Re: Good riddance
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Sat 1 Dec 13:30

George Bush Snr I'm guessing.
Yep,scumbag.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Good riddance
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Sat 1 Dec 13:34

Ah.
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 Re: Good riddance
Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey  
Date:   Sat 1 Dec 15:27

RIP Mr Bush
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 Re: Good riddance
Topic Originator: General Zod  
Date:   Sat 1 Dec 16:40

Another war monger gone. Who’s next?
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 Re: Good riddance
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 5 Dec 11:54

Warmonger ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh72XctOv5M
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 Re: Good riddance
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Wed 5 Dec 12:35

Quote:

veteraneastender, Wed 5 Dec 11:54

Warmonger ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh72XctOv5M


Just because someone has seen active service doesn't mean they are not a warmonger.

Some of the officers I had when I was in the RAF would be warmongers given half the chance.
When served on 1ACC our commanding officer volunteered us for deployment to Iraq and Afghanistan. He did this as it improved his chances of being promoted. It worked.
Air Defence radars are meant to be miles away from the action not smack bang in the middle of it.

Back to Bush, was he a warmonger? As Vice President he was involved in the Iran-contra scandal. He ordered the invasion of Panama cause America didn't like their government. Then the 1st gulf war. I think he was right on that one.

Overall though through his efforts at arm reduction in the early 80's I feel he was not particularly warmongering but did have his moments.
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 Re: Good riddance
Topic Originator: DRFC_no1  
Date:   Wed 5 Dec 14:00

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 Re: Good riddance
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 5 Dec 14:03

"Just because someone has seen active service doesn't mean they are not a warmonger."

Shot down, wounded, and rescued by a submarine which fortunately happened to be in the vicinity - a bit more than active service.

Agreed, in general otherwise.
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 Re: Good riddance
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Wed 5 Dec 18:35

Bush snr was the last of the presidents to have served in war and was, by most accounts, a very decent man.

Gulf War 1 was 100% justified in that Iraq had invaded another sovereign country, Kuwait. Of course, had there been no oil in the area, one wonders if the US coalition would have intervened? The mistake was to halt proceedings before taking out Sadaam, but that's well recognised, as is the Bush family's connection to oil and Saudi Arabia.

The living president that I will mourn most deeply for will be Jimmy Carter whose record before, during and after his term in the White House should be much admired.
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 Re: Good riddance
Topic Originator: twin par  
Date:   Wed 5 Dec 21:52

Take my hat off to anyone that sits in a fighter plane.You would have to have some nerve.
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 Re: Good riddance
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 6 Dec 15:26

It was a Grumman Avenger that Bush flew, along with 2 other crew, both killed in the action when he was shot down.

He refused the chance to return to the US after being rescued.

The then youngest pilot in the US Navy at age 19 in 1942.
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 Re: Good riddance
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sat 8 Dec 21:27

Much is made of fighting where oil is involved as if its all about personal fortunes.
Surely there is more to it than that though.
The instability caused by uncertainty in supply affects all economies doesn't it.
I dont want to see anyone go to war but I can understand how world powers would get involved to prevent the knock on effect in their own countries, not just their own pockets.

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 Re: Good riddance
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Sat 8 Dec 21:40

So you are justifying foreign invasion on the basis of geo-politics? If you are, at least you are you are being more honest than those in the past who have done so on the spurious grounds of Christianity or Democracy.

Regarding the late George Bush, he was part of a unique group of 4 prisidents of the USA who happened to be in Dallas area on November 22nd, 1963. He was CIA man at the time of course, this is barely contested. JFK, LBJ, Nixon and George Bush were all in Dallas area on 22 November, 1963. One of the greatest coincidences in history. The Bush dynasty survived ands flourished. The Kennedy one was destroyed.
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 Re: Good riddance
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 9 Dec 09:36

LBJ was the vice President and a Texan so I hardly find it astonishing that he'd be accompanying the President to Dallas. Richard Nixon was in the greater Dallas area, about thirty miles away, at a carbonated soft drink makers convention. He was attending it as a lawyer representing Pepsi and he would have been mingling at the event with Hollywood actress Joan Crawford. It's hard to shoe horn her into the JFK conspiracy but would she really have been at such a convention at the same time as Kennedy was being shot only thirty miles away and not having something to do with it?
I cant find any evidence that George Bush was a CIA agent in 1963 or that he was in Dallas that day. Now that is quite possibly because I am not skilled enough on search engines to find such evidence. However I did discover that Bush at the time was Chairman of the Republican party for Harris County, Texas. It's quite possible that he was wanting to be in and about all the political types that hang around a President whenever he goes to a political convention (which is why JFK was in Dallas afterall). The real kicker for me though as to why the Bush's aren't some Machiavellian political puppet masters happened one year after the assassination. George Bush ran for congress and lost. He was beaten by a democrat. In red state Texas. So they can be part of one of the biggest conspiracy and cover up's of all time but can't swing it for their boy to win a local election?

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Good riddance
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sun 9 Dec 09:56

Quote:

sammer, Sat 8 Dec 21:40

So you are justifying foreign invasion on the basis of geo-politics?
...


Just a fact. Disruption in the supply of oil affects the world economy and can bring down governments. Its not as simple as some make out.

Im not justifying war. Just understanding the thought process.

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 Re: Good riddance
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Sun 9 Dec 11:14

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sun 9 Dec 09:36

I cant find any evidence that George Bush was a CIA agent in 1963.

However I did discover that Bush at the time was Chairman of the Republican party for Harris County, Texas.


Bush was director of CIA in 1976. Like you I can't find anything of him being an agent in 1963.

Harris County is in Houston over 6 hour drive from Dallas. Harris County is actually a Blue area in a Red state so if he was standing there then no surprise he lost.
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 Re: Good riddance
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 9 Dec 11:21

Even more surprising then that "they" would ask him to run there. You'd think that they would give him a nice cushy staunchly pro republican area. It's almost as if he had to work his way up the political ladder and earn his dues.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Good riddance
Topic Originator: calpar  
Date:   Sun 9 Dec 13:04

Aye, he ‘earned’ lots for his already rich family, he won next election tho didnt he?
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 Re: Good riddance
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Sun 9 Dec 15:01

Sorry for shooting the messenger PARrot; I realise you were merely relating the realpolitik, not condoning it.

Regarding the coincidence of the four Presidents in Dallas area, I agree that Jayne Russell’s presence is not in any way suspicious given that she was married to a former Pepsi bigwig and neither did she later become POTUS. LBJ’s presence cannot be questioned either, although his decision to ride two cars back from the President has long caused comment. As the major beneficiary from the death of JFK, a murder which happened in his own state, it’s inevitable that suspicions linger about LBJ. He also organised the Warren Commission whose judgment has not worn well over the years.

Richard Nixon was indeed on legal business for Pepsi the actual morning of the shooting, but he gave a number of contradictory accounts of where he actually was and how he heard of the President’s death. One Pepsi employee who attended Nixon’s talk even claimed the future President was still in the area when news broke of the assassination, although Nixon always claimed he discovered on arrival at New York. Then there is the alleged link between Nixon and Jack Ruby, based on a memo from 1947 which surfaced many years later. Its authenticity has been questioned but never been completely discredited.

George Bush senior was referred to as a member of the CIA in a memo written by FBI chief J Edgar Hoover one week after the assassination. Despite claims that Hoover was referring to ‘another George Bush’ no such person has been found. Although Bush’s Zapata Oil Company was lucrative enough, it did not seem a big enough enterprise to warrant his wide foreign travel and in any case it surely inconceivable that a man with no previous secret service history would suddenly be appointed Head of the CIA. Neither MI5 nor the former KGB appoint in this manner. Bush almost certainly stayed at the Sheraton Hotel, Dallas the day before the assassination, and by his own account intended to stay at that hotel after leaving a place called Tyler when hearing the news. He did find time to phone the CIA and put forward the name of a suspect, a totally innocent man who, curiously, was later found working for George Bush junior.

There can be little doubt that the assassination of JFK was a conspiracy of some sort; there would have been no reason for someone to be impersonating Lee Harvey Oswald in the Cuban and Soviet Embassies in Mexico City shortly before the assassination otherwise. Whether that conspiracy involved any of the future Presidents present in the Dallas area that day has not been determined.
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 Re: Good riddance
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 9 Dec 15:56

No reason for an impersonator as it actually was Oswald who visited and had contact with the Soviets in Mexico. Oswald's time in the Soviet Union in the years leading up to the assassination is well documented. Upon defecting to the USSR he thought he was going to be a useful asset to the Soviets however they could see him for what he was. As could the Americans when he returned to the States. A deluded man with a big chip on his shoulder.
Some people think that Oswald was a patsy, set up to be a fall guy. If thats the case it's because Oswald's backstory and actions, including a failed assassination of a prominent American general, would lead anyone to label him a prime suspect. It's worth remembering that he was originally arrested for the murder of a Dallas police officer while attempting to leave the area. When hearing hooves first think horses rather than Zebras.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Good riddance
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Sun 9 Dec 21:35

'No reason for an impersonator as it actually was Oswald who visited and had contact with the Soviets in Mexico.''

That was not the view of J Edgar Hoover, who was concerned enough to contact LBJ on the day after the assassination about the fact someone had been impersonating Oswald. He claimed to have photographic evidence (unsurprisingly anyone entering certain embassies was filmed) and an audio tape of an intercepted phone call showing that a person claiming to be Oswald was not him. That does not preclude the possibility that Oswald did enter these embassies; it does indicate that someone was pretending to be him. Hoover, as head of the FBI, believed that some kind of conspiracy existed.

The Soviets did, I agree, see Oswald for what he was: a spy pretending to be a defector. That's why they sent him to Minsk out of the way. When he returned to the USA he was not put on trial for treachery, in fact he was assisted back into his home country with, officially at least, not so much as a debriefing.

You are assuming that Oswald shot General Walker, JFK and Officer Tippit, but we might be in a better to position to judge that had he actually gone to trial. That might be less of an issue had the Dallas Police killed Oswald while he was allegedly resisting arrest in a small cinema, but he was of course killed inside the police station later, when handcuffed.
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 Re: Good riddance
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 9 Dec 22:26

Yes you'd think it would have been far easier for the conspirators to have killed him out of the way. Instead it happened on live TV before he could answer questions thoroughly. Like why was he as the Soviet embassy in Mexico City. Maybe just as well he never got to answer that one as the world had already been brought to the brink of nuclear armageddon a year earlier. Of course that in itself has been touted as one the reasons JFK was assassinated.
It's strange how do many conspiracy theories abound regarding JFK but less so about Reagan and John Hinckley. The difference between the two was obviously the skill and aim of the assassins. Oswald was a trained Marine and Hinckley wasn't.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Good riddance
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 11 Dec 16:34

How was the Kennedy dynasty destroyed on 22 Nov. 1963 ?

Bobby and Edward continued the family tradition.
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 Re: Good riddance
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Tue 11 Dec 18:07

There is no credible evidence that Oswald ever visited either the Soviet Embassy or the Cuban Embassy in Mexico City. The CIA did, naturally enough, secretly photograph all who entered. No photograph of Oswald has ever emerged. Those he spoke to in the Cuban Embassy describe a muscular, blond haired man, not Oswald. He was being impersonated, which J Edgar Hoover realised amounted to a conspiracy. That is why his concerns about Oswald and Mexico City only became available for public viewing many years later. In fact the problem with Mexico City is one of the reasons Johnson was persuaded to set up the Warren Commission.


Oswald was far from the disgruntled loner with a grudge painted by the WC. He had at the age of 24 done more than many in life, having experienced army life, lived in the USSR and was a father married to an attractive Russian lady. He was viewed as a quiet type by fellow workers in the USA and USSR, but an easy enough bloke to knock along with. Even when on his pulpit preaching his supposed belief in Marxism, he argued calmly rather than aggressively. His TV interview as Chairman (and probably only member) of the New Orleans Fair Play for Cuba group is worth a look, available on youtube I think. For a man apparently working a series of dead end jobs Oswald had unusual access to media, as well as funds. Actually, if Oswald had really been a Marxist he would more likely have joined the Communist Party of America, which he never did. That would have made obtaining a visa from either embassy in Mexico City something of a formality, something Oswald would have known.
He remains, to my knowledge, the only nobody who ever assassinated a somebody yet denied his deed. That sets him apart from the likes of Hinkley.

Why were the shootings of JFK and Oswald, if part of a conspiracy, done in public view. It's a good question, for the art of conspiracy is surely to conceal rather than to reveal. Practicality is probably the best answer, for an assassin needs access which is not always available. There may be the added advantage of making a defiant public statement to the effect that, if we can do this sort of thing in public then we are not people to be messed with.


VEE, Yes I did overstate the case. I should have said the destruction began on 22 November 1963 and was progressed five years later when Robert Kennedy began his run for President. Teddy Kennedy was not the victim of any conspiracy, save his own attempt to bury the truth of the vents in his car crash.
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 Re: Good riddance
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 11 Dec 18:25

JFK wasn’t the intended clan member that his father Joe Kennedy had ambitions for as POTUS, that was the older brother Joe Jnr.

He was tragically killed in action piloting what later was discovered to be a needless top secret mission in 1944.

Robert might well have made it to the White House had he too not been murdered in 1968.

Edward could also have been a contender if not for the Chappaquidick (spelling ?) incident.
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