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 Notre Dame
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Mon 15 Apr 19:59

Engulfed by flames. Only the walls left soon. Very sad. Iconic landmark and part of history since the 12th century




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: dave67  
Date:   Mon 15 Apr 20:18

3rd time it's been in flames

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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: parsmad68  
Date:   Mon 15 Apr 20:48

Agree Raymon, I also felt sadness about this when I was told tonight. Strange as it is only a building.
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: Hummingbird Harry  
Date:   Mon 15 Apr 21:01

Celtic to released a statement blaming those pesky proddys imminently
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: parbucks  
Date:   Mon 15 Apr 21:09

Very cheap and uncalled for Harry but sadly predictable.



Post Edited (Mon 15 Apr 21:17)
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Mon 15 Apr 21:12

Quasimodo needs the insurance for a wee bit cosmetic surgery.

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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Mon 15 Apr 21:24

They’re now saying the north tower might collapse. It’ll probably all need to come down now anyway even if it doesn’t collapse.
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 16 Apr 00:12

Was lucky enough to visit it on a school trip back in my younger days and remember being blown away by it at an age where you didn't tend to get blown away by buildings.

Really sad to see this happen to it. I know Macron has said they are going to rebuild it but I dont think it'll ever quite feel the same. Sad day.
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Tue 16 Apr 10:14

I think some people (nobody on here) need to calm down about it all. Nobody has died, the building isn't totally destroyed. The word catastrophe is being used to describe this incident! Billionaires already pledging hundreds of millions to rebuild it. Can't help but think that it's a vanity thing going on there.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 16 Apr 10:41

I know what you mean. Someone is apparently comparing it to 9/11.

https://www.newsweek.com/notre-dame-fire-glenn-beck-france-911-world-trade-center-conspiracy-theory-1397581

As bad as it is, theres no comparison between the two.
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Tue 16 Apr 12:39

"A symbol of Christianity"...oh my.
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Tue 16 Apr 14:54

Coverage is a bit over the top, and I'm a former firefighter.
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Tue 16 Apr 15:01

Quote:

richie5401, Tue 16 Apr 12:39

"A symbol of Christianity"...oh my.


No true Scotsman fallacy?
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Tue 16 Apr 15:12

Nah..more akin to the prophecy of Matt24:2.
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Tue 16 Apr 15:19

Quote:

richie5401, Tue 16 Apr 15:12

Nah..more akin to the prophecy of Matt24:2.


FFS.
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Tue 16 Apr 15:27

It's not just yesterday...look at history.Many many symbols of false religion/worship have gone by the wayside.

What is equally sad is 300m + has already been promised to rebuild it.That couldn't be used for a better purpose could it?

Anyway..back to my original point.There is only one symbol of Christianity.

The Cross.
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Tue 16 Apr 16:21

Oh....hold up...donations up to half a billion from private enterprise.

Vatican contribution...0
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Tue 16 Apr 16:31

It was already in dire need of extensive (and very costly) restoration work apparently.
Makes ye think eh 🤔
Although I should add that they have initially ruled out any thought of foul play.
Act of God??? 😂



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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Tue 16 Apr 16:39

Act of God..lol that 's a good 'un...
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Tue 16 Apr 16:52

Oops.. Just heard on the radio that work was being done to the building prior to the fire....
Sounds ominous 🤔



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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Tue 16 Apr 17:15

Quote:

widtink, Tue 16 Apr 16:52

Oops.. Just heard on the radio that work was being done to the building prior to the fire....
Sounds ominous 🤔


Yep....insurance Joab. Noah claim bonus is protected though.
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Tue 16 Apr 17:26

Ha... Very good sir.
Well played 👏 👏 👏





Post Edited (Tue 16 Apr 17:26)
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Tue 16 Apr 17:41

Quote:

richie5401, Tue 16 Apr 15:27

It's not just yesterday...look at history.Many many symbols of false religion/worship have gone by the wayside.

What is equally sad is 300m + has already been promised to rebuild it.That couldn't be used for a better purpose could it?

Anyway..back to my original point.There is only one symbol of Christianity.

The Cross.


You mean the fish surely. The cross came long after ixthus.

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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Tue 16 Apr 17:46

yep those pesky romans
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Tue 16 Apr 18:12

Quote:

richie5401, Tue 16 Apr 15:27

It's not just yesterday...look at history.Many many symbols of false religion/worship have gone by the wayside.


So it is the No True Scotsman fallacy.
Glad we cleared that up.
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Tue 16 Apr 18:23

I guess Christ get the only and final say.Or does he?
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Tue 16 Apr 18:32

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/15/the-guardian-view-on-the-notre-dame-fire-we-share-france-terrible-loss

And just to give you a flavour of the hyperbole.
"It feels as though the very heart of France and the soul of Europe have been suddenly and viciously ripped out. The fire that coursed through large sections of Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris on Monday evening was an act of blind and terrible destruction that causes a great stab of emotional pain to us all."

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Tue 16 Apr 18:36

World is still turning....
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: Jbob  
Date:   Tue 16 Apr 19:02

I am not Catholic but there is a nasty wee anti Catholic thing going on in some the posts on this thread.

Bobs of the world unite
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Tue 16 Apr 19:10

I disagree.It's anti false religion.Something that Christ called out on a regular basis.Many Catholics are caught up in a system of being forced to perform good deeds to earn salvation.Salvation is a free gift,not by works,available to all.
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Tue 16 Apr 19:26

Quote:

Jbob, Tue 16 Apr 19:02

I am not Catholic but there is a nasty wee anti Catholic thing going on in some the posts on this thread.


I dont try to hide it. I love catholics but Rome bastardised Christianity and the doctrines of the Vatican are often completely the polar opposite of the Gospel.
The bible is in many ways open to interpretation, and even when Christ was among the desciples they argued about what he meant.
Nobody has a monopoly on the full undetstanding of scripture but the vatican and roman catholicism was not an expansion of Christoanity, it was a Roman power grab.

Good job we are saved by grace and not theology huh!?

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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: parbucks  
Date:   Tue 16 Apr 19:29

Jbob

Agreed. It’s fair game for some to poke fun at Catholicism and Christianity in general. Something that wouldn’t be tolerated if it involved other forms of discrimination.
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Tue 16 Apr 19:54

Quote:

parbucks, Tue 16 Apr 19:29

Jbob

Agreed. It’s fair game for some to poke fun at Catholicism and Christianity in general. Something that wouldn’t be tolerated if it involved other forms of discrimination.


Nobody is poking fun at catholicism. It isnt a funny matter. I disagree with vatican theology. I dont poke fun at it.
The cross is accepted by most christians as the official symbol of the faith. Originally it was the fish. The Greek word ixthus initials stand for Jesus Christ God's Son Saviour.
It was the secret sign the early christians used for meetings etc.
The cross followed constantine when he grabbed power and began the process of substituting pagan gods and festivals for Ancient Jewish and Christian celebrations.
I dont find any of it funny but it was those pesky Romans who first used the cross as an icon.

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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Tue 16 Apr 20:02

What positive things did the Romans ever do for us?
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Tue 16 Apr 20:10

Baths. Roads, under floor heating, italian wine, left nice things in the ground for us to find, built a Trumesque wall for us tae gie us peace fae the English. Proved the supremacy of the Scots nation .. being the only one they didnt conquer. Yadda yaddda...

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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Tue 16 Apr 20:11

.... oh and without Romans there would never have been Asterix books.

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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Tue 16 Apr 20:18

Quote:

PARrot, Tue 16 Apr 20:11

.... oh and without Romans there would never have been Asterix books.


By far their greatest achievement 😃
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: parfection  
Date:   Tue 16 Apr 20:34

I can completely understand why the very extensive damage to Notre Dame is viewed as a cultural disaster. This is a building that has borne witness to human history since its completion in the 1300s. It is so closely bound up with the identity of France as a nation, and it occupies a special place in the heart of a very patriotic people. I’m not at all surprised that it has attracted so many financial pledges towards its restoration. Most, if not all countries have buildings that are bound up with the soul of their people and it’s going to have a deleterious effect if such a landmark is facing destruction.

We all have our favourite places to visit in the world, and Paris has, for me, a grandeur that few other cities can match. I’m happy that the basic structure of the cathedral seems relatively sound and I hope it’s restored for generations long after ours to marvel at and enjoy.
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: Jbob  
Date:   Tue 16 Apr 20:48

Parrot/Richie those are your views. It is disingenuous to present them as fact.

Bobs of the world unite
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: ft media  
Date:   Tue 16 Apr 22:05

So we have an argument that one story isn't as good as another story...
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Tue 16 Apr 23:02

Quote:

ft media, Tue 16 Apr 22:05

So we have an argument that one story isn't as good as another story...


No.
They are arguing about different interpretations of the same fairy tale by different groups of people.
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: parbucks  
Date:   Tue 16 Apr 23:22

Here we go again.
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Wed 17 Apr 01:23

Quote:

Jbob, Tue 16 Apr 20:48

Parrot/Richie those are your views. It is disingenuous to present them as fact.


They are facts. Nothing disingenious about it. Certified facts.

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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Wed 17 Apr 01:26

Quote:

sadindiefreak, Tue 16 Apr 23:02

Quote:

ft media, Tue 16 Apr 22:05

So we have an argument that one story isn't as good as another story...


No.
They are arguing about different interpretations of the same fairy tale by different groups of people.


We are not arguing.

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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 17 Apr 09:01

"What positive things did the Romans ever do for us? "

They built a wall at Falkirk to contain the local barbarians.



Post Edited (Wed 17 Apr 15:11)
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: babs woodhouse  
Date:   Wed 17 Apr 12:54

I wonder how the yellow vests will react when the millions are spent on an old building when thy are already protesting about the government tax and spending policy at the moment.
Does any one know where the original money came from to build it was it from the Church and if so when will they announce their contribution?
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Wed 17 Apr 13:00

No need.Not when you have Louis vuitton,Apple and Gucci stumping up the cash.
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Wed 17 Apr 14:38

If only Grenfell had some fancy windows eh....instead we stump up for an outdated paedo factory.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: Saltire  
Date:   Wed 17 Apr 15:18

just...wow
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: Hummingbird Harry  
Date:   Wed 17 Apr 15:36

Quote:

Rastapari, Wed 17 Apr 14:38

If only Grenfell had some fancy windows eh....instead we stump up for an outdated paedo factory.


Iv missed you
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Wed 17 Apr 15:41

Quote:

Hummingbird Harry, Wed 17 Apr 15:36

Quote:

Rastapari, Wed 17 Apr 14:38

If only Grenfell had some fancy windows eh....instead we stump up for an outdated paedo factory.


Iv missed you


Likewise sweetheart.
Saltire....wow away....I still think more could be done with the money...unlike you I'm not sentimental for old buildings the church in question has the money to fix without blinking.
I'm about human welfare.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Wed 17 Apr 15:46

700m and counting,could help a few folks out with that.
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Wed 17 Apr 15:58

Quote:

richie5401, Wed 17 Apr 15:46

700m and counting,could help a few folks out with that.


But they won't...they'll rebuild the beast training centre all the more lavishly....meanwhile the Grenfel survivors are still largely in temporary accommodation.
Sick...really...darkly....sick.
Edit...paedophile hider extraordinaire May pledging money.....darkly sick again.

I Hope You're Ok Today....

Post Edited (Wed 17 Apr 16:08)
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Wed 17 Apr 18:41

I agree re the waste of money on a building. You could supply clean water to a lot of 3rd world villages with that money.

Same with the billions spent on space exploration but a lot of you disagreed wirh me on that one.

Your comments re beasts and paedophiles is over the top though. That is a universal problem. It just gets more press when a religion is involved.

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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: petrie_pants  
Date:   Wed 17 Apr 18:53

Quote:

Rastapari, Wed 17 Apr 14:38

If only Grenfell had some fancy windows eh....instead we stump up for an outdated paedo factory.


Nail on the head.
I cannot fathom why people are wetting their knickers about this when, thankfully, nobody died. Unlike Grenfell.
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: parbucks  
Date:   Wed 17 Apr 22:03

Lots showing their inner prejudices on here. Bigotry still rules.

Let me know when the Act of Settlement has been fully revoked and we can have a meaningful discussion.



Post Edited (Wed 17 Apr 22:10)
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Wed 17 Apr 23:45

Wonder if the same gang who always form an orderly queue to get fired into the Catholics would be in such a rush if this was a place of worship for any other religion.....like, say, a mosque?

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Thu 18 Apr 03:46

Naebody got fired into the catholics.
I have no gripe with catholics.
I disagree with vatican practices and teachings and I believe Rome altered the basic principals and teachings of Christianity. I still know plenty catholics who I consider to be Christian and I also know that every other denomination, including mine, is flawed. If I thought for a minute that I had it all right, I would be preaching 24/7.
You dont have to dislike someone just because you disagree with them.

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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Thu 18 Apr 05:55

This should not be descending into a debate about the merits or otherwise of one religion over another.

Notre Dame stands as an iconic building that bears testament to mankind's wondrous capabilities. I can readily understand the pain the French feel today seeing their greatest building severely damaged.

I can imagine feeling much the same way if say, the Sydney Opera House or Edinburgh Castle were engulfed in fire.

Just out of interest, the Australian Broadcasting Corporation has a talented graphics team who often bring incidents to life in quite imaginative ways. Here is their take on the Notre Dame fire.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-18/notre-dame-walk-through/11024512
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Thu 18 Apr 07:12

Quote:

da_no_1, Wed 17 Apr 23:45

Wonder if the same gang who always form an orderly queue to get fired into the Catholics would be in such a rush if this was a place of worship for any other religion.....like, say, a mosque?


There were 2 or three important mosques burning at the same time as Notre Dame...feel nothing for those buildings either.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: Mario  
Date:   Thu 18 Apr 07:43

There is a dramatic image of the dome of St Paul’s illuminated by the flames of London burning around it. Scores of churches, including others designed by Wren, were damaged or totally destroyed in that city alone.
Coventry, Liverpool, Plymouth, Portsmouth, Exeter, Birmingham etc etc..
Yet, according to Fidelma Cook, the Herald’s rather Anglophobic columnist in France, Notre Dame “remarkably” survived WW2 without a scratch.
Not really remarkable dearie, not at all...

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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 18 Apr 10:47

Notre Dame isn't owned by the Catholic Church.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: dave67  
Date:   Thu 18 Apr 11:01

Ownership
Under the 1905 law on the separation of Church and State, Notre-Dame de Paris is one of 70 churches in Paris built before that year which are owned by the French state. While the building itself is owned by the state, the Catholic Church is the designated beneficiary, having the exclusive right to use it for religious purposes in perpetuity. The archdiocese is responsible for paying the employees, for security, heating and cleaning, and for ensuring that the cathedral is open free to visitors. The archdiocese does not receive subsidies from the French state.

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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 18 Apr 11:17

Thanks for the confirmation. I couldn't find the relevant text.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 18 Apr 17:21

"Notre Dame isn't owned by the Catholic Church."

That's peed on a few parades.
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Thu 18 Apr 17:32

I don't remember anyone claiming it was.Started by the Bish around 900 years ago.
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Fri 19 Apr 08:28

Quote:

richie5401, Thu 18 Apr 17:32

I don't remember anyone claiming it was.Started by the Bish around 900 years ago.


Plenty saying the church should pay for it when arguably the landlord should (I do think the church should stump up some of their massive wealth though).


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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Fri 19 Apr 12:38

Right.I believe i said they have made 0 contribution..
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 19 Apr 15:16

Aren't there not a few religions where their places of worship are built by followers and sometimes at very quick pace.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Fri 19 Apr 16:01

Did they not bother to actually insure the place?

Or was calculated risk involved which would result in this?

Bit like Glasgow City Council have no insurance as they believe any settlement required to be be cheaper than an annual policy!

I believe this reviewed after the George Square bin lorry crash so not sure if still correct!
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 Re: Notre Dame
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Fri 19 Apr 16:26

Don't think Fife insure their schools, remember being quoted that when attending a fire some years ago.
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