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 Global warming
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 26 Jul 22:49

In the month when unprecedented heatwaves have gripped Europe and North America we now discover that huge swathes of the Arctic circle are on fire releasing 100 megatons of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere.
I'm no scientist but I suspect that after decades of being warned we have already passed the tipping point. The damage has been done and isn't going to be righted anytime soon. Isn't it about time that we employed our scientists and industrialists to come up with solutions and ideas to help us cope with the new climate situation that our children and grandchildren are going to have to live with. Many novel and imaginative plans are being circulated and I think we need to start making some of them a reality because turning my thermostat down a degree in the winter isn't going to cut it.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Sat 27 Jul 00:20

They’ve came up with plenty ideas. We’re not interested in acting on them though. I could elaborate but what’s the point?
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sat 27 Jul 07:55

Fake news. Jist ask Trump😳



Post Edited (Sat 27 Jul 07:55)
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Sat 27 Jul 09:08

Capitalists don't give one ****.
It's all on the everyday guy.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 27 Jul 09:21

Not just capitalists. Look at the communists in China.

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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Sat 27 Jul 14:53

Pretty much decided at 27 that i don't want kids. Don't think I could cope with raising a kid knowing full well their planet will be an utter wasteland likely within their lifetime. Humanity really is just a cancerous growth on the planets surface.
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Sat 27 Jul 15:02

Who's a little ray of sunshine then??? 🤣



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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Sat 27 Jul 18:23

I've been a consistently miserable git since I was in my early teens haha. Ray of sunshine I am not 😂
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: GG741  
Date:   Mon 29 Jul 03:58

Further to the comments by Andrew283, I know a few younger people who have made that same decision.

We had a general election here in Australia earlier in the year, with the conservatives returned to power. They openly support the continued use of coal as the major power source, and only last week there was a symbolic spade-turning for a government-supported project whereby coal will be used (burnt) to produce hydrogen, which will then be shipped to Japan to support Japan's 'clean climate' initiatives.

I'm not totally convinced that the major opposition party here is that much removed from the same policies.
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Mon 29 Jul 11:42

I just googled "How to make your carbon footprint zero"


It led to a Scientific American sitewhich says:

“We are all part of the solution,” wrote U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon in the foreword to 'Kick the Habit.' “Whether you are an individual, a business, an organization or a government, there are many steps you can take to reduce your climate footprint. It is a message we must all take to heart.”

Do the Calculation:

"Whether a person can live in a climate-neutral manner is a question of lifestyle choices and making improvements over time. Start your climate neutral quest by calculating your energy usage. Type “climate footprint” or “carbon footprint” into Google and try a couple of calculators that track use in different ways.

For a calculation, you’ll need information about your home energy use and your travel by car and public transit. Some calculators ask whether you’re vegetarian, how much you recycle and compost, and how much you spend buying goods and dining out. The equation can get involved. Record your information sources, and then revisit the calculator periodically with new numbers to see how you’re doing.


"Will your efforts make a difference? 'Kick the Habit' says that, for individuals, “less than 50 percent are direct emissions (such as driving a car or using a heater).” About 20 percent are caused by the creation, use and disposal of products we use; 25 percent comes from powering workplaces; and 10 percent from maintaining public infrastructure. You can drive your car less and turn down the heat, but consider ways you can affect business and government policies that could tap into that other 50-plus percent."

I'm gonna try doing the calculation tonight.

source:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-we-be-carbon-neutral/



Post Edited (Mon 29 Jul 21:07)
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Mon 29 Jul 12:57

It's already too late.
We are past the point of no return.
200 years and Earth will be like Venus.
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Mon 29 Jul 15:15

Quote:

sadindiefreak, Mon 29 Jul 12:57

It's already too late.
We are past the point of no return.
200 years and Earth will be like Venus.


The Earth will recover imo, but humans are screwed. As well as a few thousand other species that we take with us.

Perhaps the next dominant species will be smarter than us...

The Real Thing
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Mon 29 Jul 15:41

Well the universe is gradually slowing down and will eventually collapse inwardly on itself, according to the laws of entropy when all it's thermal and mechanical functions fail, thus rendering all human endeavors ultimately pointless.
But that's just me.... I hate Mondays 🤣



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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Mon 29 Jul 16:09

Wait until all the protons decay in 100000000000000000000000000000000000 years, then it'll be Monday every day 🤣

The Real Thing
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Mon 29 Jul 16:19

Quote:

Wotsit, Mon 29 Jul 15:15

Quote:

sadindiefreak, Mon 29 Jul 12:57

It's already too late.
We are past the point of no return.
200 years and Earth will be like Venus.


The Earth will recover imo, but humans are screwed. As well as a few thousand other species that we take with us.

Perhaps the next dominant species will be smarter than us...


There is already too much moisture in the air which also acts as a greenhouse gas.
Even if humans reduced our impact to zero we are beyond the tipping point.
The current levels of moisture will just make more moisture.
We are already in a runaway greenhouse effect.
We have 200 years maximum.
Nothing will survive on Earth.
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Mon 29 Jul 16:23

Ach well, maybe some friendly alien archaeologists will put our hubris in a museum.
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Mon 29 Jul 19:37

If what SIF says is correct then I might as well stop the recycling now. Not much point in anyone voting Green either.

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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Mon 29 Jul 19:54

Come on the cockroaches.

Looks like it's their world.
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Mon 29 Jul 22:03

Have We Passed the Climate Change Tipping Point? (1)

From what I can gather, passing a tipping point doesn't mean we're on a runaway track to the earth becoming a sizzling inferno and dead planet, it means only that a lot of unwanted consequences are inevitable, for a period of time, e.g. extreme weather events.

And if we do nothing that will get worse. But if we stem the warming, in time things will improve. but the more we do nothing, the longer that time will be.

In other words, giving in only helps the enemy - global warming.

Which side are you on?

Do you want to reduce global warming?

According to Natasha Geiling, (environmental journalist:)

"There is really only one thing that individuals can do to prevent the worst of climate change from becoming a reality — stop voting for politicians who don’t treat climate change like the immediate threat that it is. [Politicians] actually have the power to create the kinds of policy changes needed to avert the worst of climate change. They could pass a tax on carbon, or pass a bill investing in green infrastructure... If there’s any personal action we aren’t taking that we should be, it’s demanding that candidates take an aggressive, uncompromising stance on climate change immediately, and showing up to vote for them when they do. " (2)

Sources
(1) - https://www.forbes.com/sites/uhenergy/2017/03/16/have-we-passed-the-climate-change-tipping-pint/#38c0f49a7e12

(2) - https://theoutline.com/post/6388/the-only-individual-action-that-matters-is-voting-for-people-who-care-about-climate-change?zd=1&zi=diz25yaz

NB There is not just one tipping point, there are several, related to different symptoms e.g. arctic sea ice loss, permafrost loss etc.



Post Edited (Mon 29 Jul 22:15)
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Mon 29 Jul 22:16

I look forward to the impending oxygen wars between the roaches and the crab people. ( don't tell me you didn't know about the crab people)
You probably won't be around to see it unfold... But one of the perks of admin Is that you get your head kept alive in a big glass jar after death (like in futurama).
I for one welcome our new bug or crustacean overlords.



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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Tue 30 Jul 18:12

Ref: allparone
Date: Sat 27 Jul 00:20

<<< They’ve came up with plenty ideas. We’re not interested in acting on them though. I could elaborate but what’s the point? >>>

Do you mean what's the point - governments aren't interested in doing much? Or what's the point of going into such ideas on this forum - as nobody really seems to be interested?

I'm interested allparone. I've read that places like India? are planting millions of trees (amazing how fast they can do it - 66million in 12 hours) and in the UK we might need to plant 50,000 hectares of them (a hectare is 100 m x 100m - just a bit bigger than a fitba' pitch.) Sounds good to me!



Post Edited (Tue 30 Jul 18:21)
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Tue 30 Jul 18:38

So we can't just have freak weather incidents like we have had throughout history without it being labeled?

I suppose the cavemen and dinosaur farts caused the ice age?
Summer of 76 along with the winter I believe the hottest and coldest on record were down to making to many ice lollies?
What happened to acid rain the last massive media over hyped claim?
The African famines were over 20 years ago since then they have had rain and crops?

These trends have been on record since records began!

We just have never had such corrupt governments as we do now, who invest in the technology then over hype the concern to drive up future sales!

Why has nothing been done about Extinction Rebellion in every City they have brought to a standstill?

Do you think the police would turn a blind eye if 5000 football fans brought a city to a standstill?

We are fed fake news we believe fake news we change our habits to fit in and clever people get rich!

Investors have been investing in trees for the last 10 years for starters we are now seeing the biggest planting of a generation with huge subsidies funnily enough we have been buying in log burners and bio mass driven heating systems for the last 10 years too.

30 years ago loads of investors invested in salmon farms and cod farms, then then Government have done nothing to protect either wild species. Technically throwing fisherman on the dole through stealth while they dine out on the farmed cod becoming dearer than steak and farmed salmon becoming pennies to buy but huge volumes. Not to mention the salmon feed companies making millions wonder who invested in them 30 years ago?

Wonder who invested in solar and wind farms 20 years ago?

Wonder who has the biggest legal cannabis farm in the UK?

Just do your research folks!



Post Edited (Tue 30 Jul 18:40)
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Tue 30 Jul 19:32

So the entire scientific community are in the pockets of the political elite? hmm yeah
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 30 Jul 19:47

Speaking of research..

http://www.earthtimes.org/pollution/acid-rainfall-decrease/1636/

That study is one of the longest ever done and it found that the measures introduced to cut pollutants that caused acid rain were hugely successful so the changes worked.
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Tue 30 Jul 19:49

P
Do your own research and not just listen to the news and their chosen scientific reviews.

Here's a fact Heather peat wet moorland absorbs more CO2 than trees so why would you plant trees on top of a moorland?

Yet why is the Scottish and UK government giving grants to plant tress on these moors in the name of carbon capture?
http://www.moorlandassociation.org/carbon-capture/
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Tue 30 Jul 21:14

That's a really interesting link you gave there renegade.

Quoting from it:

"There is more carbon locked up in UK peat soils than in all the trees of Britain and France. It represents 42 per cent of our entire carbon stock. That is why Moorland Association does so much work to protect these valuable peatlands.

Sadly, too much peat has been drained for agriculture with the most serious effects seen in areas such as lowland fens. It has been dug for fuel and planted with dense forestry. Now more is known about the importance of peat, our members are heavily involved in peatland protection."

So, you ask, why is the Scottish and UK government giving grants to plant trees on these moors in the name of carbon capture?

Good question, but first of all I would ask, is it true?

That'll take me a bit of time to research. (Especially as I've gotta go shopping now). Could you give me a source or two to look at in support of your claim? You were good enough to give the hot-link above. I will google questions such as:

1. Are Scottish moors being planted with trees?

2. (If so,) why?

Here's a possible clue, I've just noticed in the Moorlands article quoted above:

NOW MORE IS KNOWN about the importance of peat...

Perhaps subsidies were given in the past but not now? Or only for land too badly degraded to restore to peat moorland?

An intriguing subject you've raised renegade. I'll be back.



Post Edited (Tue 30 Jul 21:15)
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Tue 30 Jul 21:29

All I will say is I have a friend who works at Scottish Woodlands who is the land buyer I know who is investing and where they are buying land and the returns they are guaranteed are huge, the cheapest land is our moorland!
https://forestry.gov.scot/support-regulations/forestry-grants
https://www.ruralnetwork.scot/news-and-events/news/increased-funding-central-scotland-tree-planting
https://www.ruralpayments.org/publicsite/futures/topics/all-schemes/forestry-grant-scheme/

They have added on the rural payments that grants are no longer available on peat over 50cm deep.
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 30 Jul 21:37

More trees planted the better. Good for wellbeing if nothing else. Looking forward to seeing more added up at Duloch Park.
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Tue 30 Jul 21:45

Also may i add back in the in the last century and earlier, when we all used coal in our houses, industry, power stations and fossil fuels powered everything and every developed country and major cities had think dense acrid smog.
We burnt our waste with no carbon capture devices we all had bonfires we even burnt rubber tyres to dispose of them.

We never caused climate change, but reducing our sheep and cattle population in the country will help to reduce climate change? Yet before BSE our cattle used to be able to live beyond 36 months and often upto 7 years old before slaughter so we had far more stock for decades in the country. BSE was over 20 years ago but the last 2 decades have been the worst. Well we have had less cattle for the last 2 decades so how can you blame cattle for climate change?

We are cutting down rain forests to mine minerals to produce batteries for electric cars that need to be charged with electric we say is produced by wind and solar. Yet the turbines and panels are made in countries where they don't give a stuff about pollution, so the more we build turbines and solar panels the carbon is produced by these countries, and less rain forest we have to absorb the CO2 they are now over producing!

We are brainwashed as guess who has shares in wind farm technology and solar technology oh yes governments and those who serve in them!
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Tue 30 Jul 21:46

Jake they have applied to cut down the tree at Duloch wood!
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 30 Jul 21:53

There's more than one RM 😉

I'd read the Forestry Commission had offered cheap trees (maybe free) to be planted at the area by the church and park that is almost always waterlogged. Some of the local moaners objected on the basis of losing green space and because their kids wouldn't get to enjoy the trees as they'd be grown up by the time the trees were mature.

Is the bit being cut down not the Axis Point development? I thought they'd been told there needed to be a "green buffer" around the development? The locals are again moaning as they suddenly care about a bit of land that gets used by kids racing their dirt bikes and quads. Nothing to do with it meaning more lorries and vans driving along "their road"...
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Tue 30 Jul 22:46

See Save Calais Wood on Facebook all the plans are there
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Tue 30 Jul 23:37

Hi renegade,

I clicked on the hotlink you gave for ruralnetwork.scot and then put 'peat' in the search box. It led me to several articles about funding for peatland restoration.

Quote: 'Applications open for funding to restore Scotland's Peatlands'

<<< The latest Peatland ACTION Fund round is now open [28/2/19] with £1.5 million available to restore damaged peatlands across Scotland.

The funding comes through the Scottish Government’s Climate Change Plan commitments, which sets out the long-term ambition to restore 250,000 hectares of peatland by 2030.

With more than 80% of peatland habitats estimated to be damaged in Scotland, restoration is crucial to “locking-in” carbon, helping to tackle climate change.

More than 20% of Scotland’s land area is covered in peaty soils. Large areas have been damaged over centuries with extensive damage to the core peat reserves and its specialised vegetation. If we were to lose all of the carbon stored in our peat soils, it would be the equivalent of more than 140 times Scotland’s annual greenhouse gas emissions. Urgent action is needed now to reverse this trend, and to restore and improve our precious peatlands. "

In the face of climate change, healthy peatlands can provide multiple solutions, such as increased water availability for livestock and wildlife, as a wild fire retardant and by slowing river flows helping to reduce downstream flooding. >>>

This article is by Hannah Downey (Communications and Events Support Officer) at Scottish Rural Network.


Seems really odd if the Scottish Government would, as you claim, give grants to plant trees on top of peat moorland.


I've looked at all the links you gave us renegade - and thanks for that - but I haven't found any mention of grants for planting trees on moors.


ANOTHER CLUE: looking back at your post - (Tue 30 Jul 19:49:)

<<< Here's a fact Heather peat wet moorland absorbs more CO2 than trees so why would you plant trees on top of a moorland?

Yet why is the Scottish and UK government giving grants to plant trees on these moors in the name of carbon capture? >>>


There are different types of moorland. They're not all peat moors.

If grants are being given to put trees on top of moorland, could it be that it's only non-peat moors?



Post Edited (Tue 30 Jul 23:40)
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Tue 30 Jul 23:47

Ref: renegade master
Date: Tue 30 Jul 21:29

<<< They have added on the rural payments that grants are no longer available on peat over 50cm deep. >>>

I wondered where I had read that!

Yes, so doesn't what I've quoted above suggest to you that the Scottish Government policy is essentially to restore and preserve ancient viable wet peat moorland?

Sounds to me as if a 20 inch thick peat moor might be prone to drying out. Didn't I read somewhere that if they dry out they're ineffective as a carbon store? Maybe trees the better option in such cases?



Post Edited (Wed 31 Jul 00:24)
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Wed 31 Jul 00:06

Topic Originator: renegade master
Date: Tue 30 Jul 21:45

<<< Also may I add back in the in the last century and earlier, when we all used coal in our houses, industry, power stations and fossil fuels powered everything and every developed country and major cities had think dense acrid smog.
We burnt our waste with no carbon capture devices we all had bonfires we even burnt rubber tyres to dispose of them.
We never caused climate change, but reducing our sheep and cattle population in the country will help to reduce climate change? Yet before BSE our cattle used to be able to live beyond 36 months and often upto 7 years old before slaughter so we had far more stock for decades in the country. BSE was over 20 years ago but the last 2 decades have been the worst. Well we have had less cattle for the last 2 decades so how can you blame cattle for climate change? >>>



You mean we had heaps of coal fires, more cattle and burnt rubber tyres back then without global warming?

Isn't that because emissions are cumulative? It's only in the last few decades that CO2 and water vapour? have accumulated to such high levels in the atmosphere that they trap too much heat and cause warming?



Post Edited (Wed 31 Jul 00:26)
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Wed 31 Jul 08:27

Quote:

P, Tue 30 Jul 19:32

So the entire scientific community are in the pockets of the political elite? hmm yeah


The major science you hear about...yes...bought and paid for.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 31 Jul 14:30

Thanks, RM. Same plans I was thinking. It looks like there's plans for the site opposite it too. The site next to Amazon and the M90. That land has been getting promoted for industrial use for years before those houses were even built so the locals can't really complain. May save a few of them having to commute if they get a job in one of the new businesses.

Can't find mention of the trees at Duloch Park so maybe they're not planting them anymore. Shame if that's the case.
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Wed 31 Jul 23:51

Topic Originator: onandupthepars like | nolike
Date: Wed 31 Jul 00:06

Topic Originator: renegade master
Date: Tue 30 Jul 21:45

<<< Also may I add back in the in the last century and earlier, when we all used coal in our houses, industry, power stations and fossil fuels powered everything and every developed country and major cities had think dense acrid smog.
We burnt our waste with no carbon capture devices we all had bonfires we even burnt rubber tyres to dispose of them.
We never caused climate change, but reducing our sheep and cattle population in the country will help to reduce climate change? Yet before BSE our cattle used to be able to live beyond 36 months and often upto 7 years old before slaughter so we had far more stock for decades in the country. BSE was over 20 years ago but the last 2 decades have been the worst. Well we have had less cattle for the last 2 decades so how can you blame cattle for climate change? >>>



You mean we had heaps of coal fires, more cattle and burnt rubber tyres back then without global warming?

Isn't that because emissions are cumulative? It's only in the last few decades that CO2 and water vapour? have accumulated to such high levels in the atmosphere that they trap too much heat and cause warming?

No they all escaped through the big hole in the ozone layer.....remember that?
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Thu 1 Aug 00:12

I don't think it works like that RM. The 'hole' in the ozone layer was made by CFCs? I don't think it is/was actually a hole, but a thinning. Anyway, our atmosphere doesn't fly off into space because of it. Whatever CO2, water vapour, methane there is in the air is part of the atmosphere and it all remains, regardless of the 'hole' in the ozone layer.

That's how it seems to me, although I'm open to anyone supplying convincing, properly sourced arguments against it.

What d'you think? Did my ideas make any sense to you regarding the peatlands?

Regarding the 'hole' in the ozone layer:

<<< Ozone depletion consists of two related events observed since the late 1970s: a steady lowering of about four percent in the total amount of ozone in Earth's atmosphere (the ozone layer), and a much larger springtime decrease in stratospheric ozone around Earth's polar regions.The latter phenomenon is referred to as the ozone hole. >>>

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone_depletion



Post Edited (Thu 01 Aug 21:15)
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Thu 1 Aug 08:58

As Rasta has said a lot of public pushed facts is a very contrived science designed to be alarmist, thought provoking and reactional!

In most cases at times when we need an element of focus to occupy certain minds and stop anarchy.

Before I answer your question on peatland and moorlands you have responded to the ozone question which was tied into the above as was the acid rain!

However you have skirted some other very pertinent points I have made.

The construction of our renewable hardware being built in countries supporting cheap labour, scant regard for the environment or carbon reduction then massive carbon footprints to bring them to location of function, has anyone done any research into the carbon footprint of this hardware to produce 1 megawatt of electricity compared with a tradition power station with carbon capture technology?

The destruction of the biggest carbon capture environment the rainforest to mine the minerals to produce batteries for electric cars? As the research Been done again in the total carbon footprint to produce 1 electric car and ongoing cost against a new low emission petrol car?

Most of all the investors in these 2 fundamental huge global projects and those who will benefit from them significantly?

If this technology/hardware was being manufactured in the UK I would have far more respect for its purpose!

Afterall the cheapest and most environmentally friendly electricity is nuclear which if these power stations were built in the UK would provide huge construction jobs, service jobs and supply chain jobs?

But no we have decisive do to build an electric train line which will get you to Leeds 20 minutes quicker costing billions?

We are building a new runway at Heathrow costing billions to encourage more planes to come to the UK?

You want me to stop eating meat to reduce carbon emissions from cows 😂😂😂

The worst polluters of CO2 are volcanoes, shipping, planes and the developing countries and I have no powers over any of them.
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 1 Aug 09:23



Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.

Post Edited (Thu 01 Aug 09:42)
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 1 Aug 09:42

RM when you say 'do your research folks' I take it you actually did your own scientific measurements over a number of years and compared and studied the resulting data? Or are you just basing your opinions on articles or stats you have read that have been put out there by scientists. Scientists that you admit could have been paid by corporations to produce those results and analysis? Or do you think that data that supports your opinions is true and data that doesn't support your views is compromised and corrupt?

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Thu 1 Aug 09:51

TOWK

Easy anology to dismiss what you don't believe and what you choose to believe!
I ave looked into both sides of the views and I believe I'm fairly comfortable with my conclusions.

We are told what we are meant to believe but your own research from other scientists not on on the propagander/populist payroll with having opposing views!

It is up to your own personal mind to conclude and put together that facts to form a balanced view.

For the record I do believe we have done damage! As far as fixing/changing it we are far from barking up the correct tree!

But in the mean lots of people are making a lot of money convincing us we are are barking up the right tree! Personal view that tree is in an olive grove in Italy surrounded by hundreds more!
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 1 Aug 10:07

The post I put up confirmed that there is still an issue with acid rain but it's got significantly better since the regulatory changes that were made. It's a 25 year review so it's not an insignificant piece of work.

Similarly it's been well documented that there is a hole in the ozone layer but it has been getting smaller as a result of the Montreal Protocol and is expected to be repaired by 2050:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/ozone-hole-was-super-scary-what-happened-it-180957775/

I'm a bit surprised you've chosen those as examples of science being scare mongering as in both cases the recommended courses of action that scientists recommended has helped begin to fix the problem although they aren't done yet.

As far a lack of media coverage that's just the way news works. New scary stories sell more than old ones most of the time.
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 1 Aug 10:23

It's also worth pointing out some rich and influential people with business interests benefiting from not complying with those regulations denied there were issues with acid rain and the ozone.
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 1 Aug 10:48

I find the argument that people are making money from this baffling. People make money from providing solutions to serious problems shocker. That's always been the case. I have yet to meet a poor doctor but that doesn't mean I necessarily question the diagnosis that they provide.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 1 Aug 11:53

Agreed. Scotland has a terrific chance to be at the cutting edge of green technologies and if the investment in research is made it would be daft not to commercialise solutions.

Not only does it benefit the environment but it creates jobs and in some cases very wealthy people.
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 1 Aug 12:40

I'd rather we didn't have manky cars spewing out fumes but I'd also like to ensure those cars aren't simply transferring their pollution elsewhere.

I'd also ban cars with noisy exhausts, people who can't use indicators and people who slow down on the Queensferry Crossing.
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Thu 1 Aug 12:43

Topic Originator: renegade master
Date: Thu 1 Aug 08:58

<<< The worst polluters of CO2 are volcanoes, shipping, planes and the developing countries and I have no powers over any of them. >>>

All these seem to be bit-players except for developing countries. Other big players you haven’t mentioned are developed countries, automative, industrial, agriculture (20 -30% of global GHG emissions)

e.g. Volcanoes:
“According to the U.S. Geological Survey, the world’s volcanoes generate about 200 MILLION tons of CO2 annually, while our automative & industrial activities cause some 24m BILLION [yes that’s B for BILLION] tons of CO2 emissions a year worldwide.

Other CO2 emission sources you named:
SHIPPING 2.2%
AVIATION 2% (their other emissions may be several times more damaging than CO2)
DEVELOPING COUNTRIES (including China and India) 63% (Take out China and India and the figure is considerably less)

LARGEST CARBON FOOTPRINTS: America, Canada… (China 7th, UK 8th) (1)

NB. I had all the sources until I wiped them by mistake. Lesson: do complex posts on a Word document first then paste into Forum!

Source (1) https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/01/chart-of-the-day-these-countries-have-the-largest-carbon-footprints/



Post Edited (Thu 01 Aug 12:50)
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Thu 1 Aug 13:31

To cut to the chase:

1. Global warming is happening.

2. Whether caused completely by us or not, it's made worse by us burning fossil fuels etc.

3. We need to (among other things:)

a)cut emissions of GHGs (greenhouse gases.)

b)greatly reduce deforestation.

Would you agree with these, Renegade & Rasta?

What solutions would you propose?


I'd like to see greater investment in wave power. It's constant, and taking energy from the sea could help prevent coastal erosion.



Post Edited (Thu 01 Aug 13:33)
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Thu 1 Aug 14:11

Climate change deniers are some of the most utterly thick, head in the sand idiots walking the land. Clutching at straws for any tiny excuse to go against what is clearly happening. Humanity and our actions have poisoned the earth and there's only so much that nature can do to counter this unless we drastically change.
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Thu 1 Aug 21:12

ref: renegade master
Date: Thu 1 Aug 08:58

<<<You want me to stop eating meat to reduce carbon emissions from cows 😂😂 😂>>>


"A cow on overage releases between 70 and 120 kg of Methane per year... the negative effect on the climate of Methane is 23 times higher than the effect of CO2. Therefore the release of about 100 kg Methane per year for each cow is equivalent to about 2'300 kg CO2 per year.

"World-wide, there are about 1.5 billion cows and bulls. All ruminants (animals which regurgitates food and re-chews it) on the world emit about two billion metric tons of CO2-equivalents per year. In addition, clearing of tropical forests and rain forests to get more grazing land and farm land is responsible for an extra 2.8 billion metric tons of CO2 emission per year."(1)

So that's 2+ 2.8 = 4.8 billion tons from ruminants, which would be about 24 TIMES the CO2 released by volcanoes in a year which, according to you is one of "the worst polluters of CO2" (ref: renegade, Thu 1 Aug 08:58).

At first I thought your three laughing smileys meant you were ridiculing the whole idea - were you really laughing with delight at the idea of giving up meat? 😂


source:
(1) - https://timeforchange.org/are-cows-cause-of-global-warming-meat-methane-CO2



Post Edited (Thu 01 Aug 21:20)
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Thu 1 Aug 21:30

18% of global human CO2 equivalent greenhouse gas production comes from livestock used for meat and dairy production.

37% of anthropogenic methane, 64% of ammonia and 65% of NO2 are from the livestock industry.

Meat and dairy production use 70% of all agricultural land on the planet (for feedcrops and for housing livestock) leading to inefficient land use, overgrazing and ultimately land degradation.

The livestock industry has accelerated bacterial resistance through its over use of antibiotics.

Polluting waterways with antibiotics and hormones.

I'm a meat eater by the way, I just know that I'm being a selfish d**k by doing it.

The Real Thing
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Thu 1 Aug 21:41

Refreshingly honest Wotsit. I suppose the answer is to invent a methane collector each ruminant can wear like a nappy. Or train them to fart into a collector.
Actually it would be a massive fuel source wouldn't it? Pity we can't collect it at source.



Post Edited (Thu 01 Aug 21:41)
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Sat 3 Aug 22:44

Wotsit where the hell did you get that info from?

70% of all agricultural land?????? Behave.

Please back it up with facts.

You are saying all the worlds vegetables, grain, fruit, nuts and seeds come from 30% of used arable land in use in the world?

Or are these scewed figures including co2 absorbing crops used to feed and produce feed for the animals which would be grown as a human consumption crop otherwise.

When we talk about cattle or ruminants are the high levels of wild, ox, bison, buffalo, zebra etc etc included the population numbers are huge but in the eyes of the vegans and climate protestors these should not be culled but British farmers should go on the dole and give up their dairy and beef herds to save the planet. Once again show me the joined up thinking. Surely we should be killing every methane/co2 animal which provides no economical value except to eat the very wild plants in excess that absorb CO2?
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 3 Aug 23:08

They eat the crops but produce methane. No point in crops absorbing carbon if its then reintroduced into the atmosphere.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Sat 3 Aug 23:18

Meat and dairy production use 70% of all agricultural land on the planet (for feedcrops and for housing livestock) leading to inefficient land use, overgrazing and ultimately land degradation.

I mande no attempt do deceive - it's right there in my post.

All of the facts I quoted were drawn directly from the Executive summary of this report by the Food and Agriculture Organization of The United Nations.

The facts are clear - meat production has, calorie for calorie, a massively inflated environmental footprint compared to plant-based diets and, if nothing else, population pressure will mean that we have to find more efficient means of calorie production. What happens when more and more Indian and Chinese peasants move to cities and become middle class? How do we feed them in the manner which we are used to? Where do we fit all the pigs? Where do we grow the pigs' feedcrops?

We either change what we eat or we have to somehow prevent too many foreigners from being better off and having our lifestyle.

The Real Thing
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 3 Aug 23:52

Or science develops new techniques and technologies for extracting carbon from the atmosphere. That can be done but will require the polictal will.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Sun 4 Aug 00:25

That would solve half the problem, but there's still land use to worry about - we need increasingly more physical space to grow food for everyone as global population accelerates.

By the way, I meant to say - a good chunk of the carbon released from agriculture is from methane used to produce ammonia fertilisers. This is currently from natural gas reserves, so it's releasing "fresh" carbon.

The Real Thing
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Sun 4 Aug 16:43

I'm not doubting you Wotsit but which part of that report have you referred to, as each part is a download and I'd like to read the relevant stuff.
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Sun 4 Aug 17:21

All of the facts I quoted were drawn directly from the Executive summary of this report by the Food and Agriculture Organization of The United Nations.

;P

The Real Thing
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Sun 4 Aug 22:38

Ref: renegade master
Date: Sat 3 Aug 22:44

<<<Wotsit where the hell did you get that info from?

70% of all agricultural land?????? Behave.

Please back it up with facts>>>


Ref: Wotsit
Date: Sun 4 Aug 17:2


<<< All of the facts I quoted were drawn directly from the Executive summary of this report...>>>

Got it, thanks Wot. (Renegade apologise or go and sit on the naughty step!😂)



From 'Livestock's Long Shadow' report by the Food and Agriculture Org. of the UN

Executive Summary. Part one, page xx (near the end of the part:)

Quote:

'The livestock sector is by far the single largest anthropogenic* user of land. The total area occupied by GRAZING is equivalent to 26 per cent of the ice-free terrestrial surface of the planet. In addition, the total area dedicated to FEEDCROP PRODUCTION amounts to 33 per cent of total arable land. In all, LIVESTOCK PRODUCTION accounts for 70 PER CENT OF ALL AGRICULTURAL LAND and 30 PER CENT OF THE LAND SURFACE OF THE PLANET.'

'Expansion of livestock production is a key factor in deforestation... 70 per cent of previous forested land in the Amazon is occupied by pastures and feedcrops cover a large part of the remainder...'

http://www.fao.org/3/a0701e/a0701e00.pdf

*anthropogenic = human activity

The report was published in 2006. Probably figures are even higher by now.



Post Edited (Sun 04 Aug 23:21)
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 Re: Global warming
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Sun 4 Aug 23:51

Ref: renegade master
Date: Sat 3 Aug 22:44

<<<When we talk about cattle or ruminants are the high levels of wild, ox, bison, buffalo, zebra etc etc included >>>


I see what you mean, Renegade. I quoted (Thu 1 Aug 21:12) for ruminants emissions, it's ambiguous. The figure was about 4.8 billion metric tons of CO2-equivalents per year. That source (1) published in 2008, seems to have been based on a Defra UK report (2).


Here's a different source (FAO of the UN 2019). It specifies 'livestock.'

<<<Total emissions from global livestock: 7.1 Gigatonnes of Co2-equiv per year, representing 14.5 percent of all anthropogenic GHG emissions (3) >>>


A gigatonne is a billion tonnes. Livestock means only domesticated farm animals.

So these figures are higher and specified for livestock only (suggesting to me the previous source with its lower figure was also for livestock only.)

Still, I'd like to see another different source from the UN. Too late tonight, got to go to the Land of Nod.

sources:

(1) https://timeforchange.org/are-cows-cause-of-global-warming-meat-methane-CO2

(2) Environmental Impacts of Food Production and Consumption -
http://www.defra.gov.uk/science/project_data/DocumentLibrary/EV02007/EV02007_4601_FRP.pdf

(3) http://www.fao.org/news/story/en/item/197623/icode/



Post Edited (Mon 05 Aug 00:14)
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