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 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sat 1 Feb 14:57

2nd bottom this year then?

I wonder how long before Japan join the southern hemisphere gig.

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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Sat 1 Feb 17:05

Japan’s World Cup performance while very enjoyable was down to massive investment in the game as hosts of the World Cup, buying players in and having their squad together for the best part of a year.

It remains to be seen whether the level of performance is sustainable - I have my doubts.

Meanwhile Scotland will continue to decline with toonie in charge (I hope I am wrong)


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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: wetherby  
Date:   Sat 1 Feb 17:35

Really frustrating the amount of times we have either committed a foul or conceded possession in front of Ireland's posts. It has been a failing of Scotland teams for a few years now.
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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Sat 1 Feb 18:03

What on earth was that Hogg? Awful stuff
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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Sat 1 Feb 18:08

Scotland threatening to be a really top team again but mistake after mistake in front of their posts is costing us dearly.

If you only turn up to moan then do it elsewhere
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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sat 1 Feb 18:47

Canny blame Toonie with that loss. What do you mean continue to decline. Have we dropped in any rankings since Toonie took over?

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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Sat 1 Feb 19:20

Scotland don't have enough strength in depth to be a top world team.
We're a top ten team at best.
We have the occasional big win... But being Scotland, a high is always followed by a low... Then sometimes another low lol.
I don't really rate Toonie as an international manager... We haven't really kicked on since he got the gig and we're in real danger of going backwards.
I'm betting Toonie will walk away after the six nations.
We only looked half decent today because Ireland didn't really play as we know they can.



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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Sat 1 Feb 19:43

Quote:

PARrot, Sat 01 Feb 18:47

Canny blame Toonie with that loss. What do you mean continue to decline. Have we dropped in any rankings since Toonie took over?


Yes - we were ranked 5th in 2017 and are now 9th and unless they have a very good year are staring at the third pot of seeds when the draw for the 2023 Rugby World Cup is made in Paris later this year.


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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sat 1 Feb 19:47

Quote:

widtink, Sat 1 Feb 19:20

Scotland don't have enough strength in depth to be a top world team.
We're a top ten team at best.
We have the occasional big win... But being Scotland, a high is always followed by a low... Then sometimes another low lol.
I don't really rate Toonie as an international manager... We haven't really kicked on since he got the gig and we're in real danger of going backwards.
I'm betting Toonie will walk away after the six nations.
We only looked half decent today because Ireland didn't really play as we know they can.


He has factualy improved the team. From your opening comment we are a top 10 team. We dont have the resources to be a top team. We are currently 9th. Would be 8th if Japan hadnt been training together for a year and at home in the wc...possibly. How do you see anyone else improving us more with the same resources.
I think we will overtake Japan then we might swap positions as Irish and Welsh fortunes fluctuate. Other than that???
Six Nations: Have Scotland improved in Gregor Townsend's 1000 days in charge? - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51256178



Post Edited (Sat 01 Feb 19:48)
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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Sat 1 Feb 20:33

Ireland and Wales (and Engurland unfortunately) will always be above us in the rankings as they have strength in depth.... They can cope when injuries and suspensions rule out key players because they have a much bigger pool of players to pick from to replace them.
As long as Scotland only have two teams to pick players from it won't change... Yes I know we have a few stragglers playing down south and in France but they're few and far between.
Scotland (in my humble opinion) actually punch above their weight all things considered... But only having Glasgow and Edinburgh as our professional sides is hurting us big time.



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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 1 Feb 21:12

Why blame Toonie then? Should he be able to produce a bigger pool of players out of thin air?
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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sat 1 Feb 21:32

We were making good progress under Stern Vern and Toonie got the credit during the change over period although it was still Verns team and coaching
Since Toonie has stamped his own mark and methods we have gone backwards Today should have been better against an Ireland team who are in transition and rebuilding with new young players and coaches Our problem is as a team we cannot do the basics we try to over elaborate a simple game perhaps to make up for our lack of pace and strength That game was ours to win today but the usual errors and failure to turn pressure into points was as always our downfall
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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Sat 1 Feb 21:48

It's not so much I'm blaming him... He can only work with the tools at his disposal. But he's taken a side that was on the verge of something good under stern Vern and we're now stagnating. He's not an international coach in my opinion.
We will always struggle because of our lack of professional players to pick from but Vern got the very best out of them... Toonie doesn't seem to have that ability.
With the limited resources we have regarding players, every ounce of talent needs to be developed.
Vern was a master at it at this level.
Toonie is a good club coach... But he's a complete novice on the international stage... And it's starting to show.
The only way is down under his tenure....imho.
I stand by my prediction... He will walk away this year.



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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: shrek par  
Date:   Sat 1 Feb 22:11

Problem lies further up the food chain, but toonie is out his depth. The SRU
Don't care about grassroots rugby (if you don't like our setup make your own)
Develop talent from a miniscule pool.
Have imposed the super6 on the regions.
Look after "their boys" and close ranks when questioned(Finn Russell's dad debacle)
Refuse to question their executive committee on their policies and actions despite numerous complaints.
Elevate unsuitable individuals into their higher echelons( Dodson et Al)
Until the basic Constitution and composition of the SRU is changed there will be many barren years.

Admin.
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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Sat 1 Feb 23:51

Will never understand punting Vern. Best Scotland coach in years and we get rid of him so save cash. SRU are an embarrassment
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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Sun 2 Feb 16:09

Englandlandshireshire currently being toshed by the French...
17-0 at the moment with 34 mins to go.



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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 2 Feb 17:26

Englands party piece thuggery getting more back than they are giving great to see :-)
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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Thu 6 Feb 18:54

Ooer Mrs. England gobbing of again

After Eddie Jones said they would put France into a box along comes Lewis Ludlam

Lewis Ludlam says England bring just as much hatred and aggression to Saturday's Calcutta Cup fixture as Scotland, promising the hosts a "war".

The flanker, 24, disagreed when it was suggested Scotland bring more fury to international rugby's oldest rivalry.

"We are emotionally there. They hate us and we hate them. There is no difference," he said.

"We're revved up. We want to be brutal. We don't want to give them an inch to breathe. We're coming for them."

Better Run Boys they are coming for us :-)
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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Thu 6 Feb 19:46

Fact is... As much as I hate to admit it... If Engurland are at anything near their best, they will slap us.
We have to play out of our skin to be in with a chance vs them.
But... Ye never know eh 🤣



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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Thu 6 Feb 21:16

Quote :-
Topic Originator: widtink like | nolike
Date: Thu 6 Feb 19:46

Fact is... As much as I hate to admit it... If Engurland are at anything near their best, they will slap us.
We have to play out of our skin to be in with a chance vs them.
But... Ye never know eh 🤣

We have never been bigger faster or better than England widtink since the professional set up ...what we had however before then was a plan A B and C which confused them... disrupted them and allowed us to compete and hold our own
If we try and match their physicality on Saturday then we will probably get beat we need to play to our strengths... bring a bit of composure back into the team and who knows what might happen .....Its brutal.. Its a war ...They are coming to get us .....
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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Sat 8 Feb 18:36

6-13


No chance for us to win when we lost most of our own line-outs. And had no answer to their scrums. Even more concerning is the fact that, when we get to within a few yards of the opposition's line, we have no ingenuity to fool them and get over the line, same as v Ireland. Having given away so much possession and terrirtory from our own line-outs, really we did pretty well to keep the score down.



Post Edited (Sat 08 Feb 18:41)
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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Sat 8 Feb 21:08

Not surprised.... But nearly men yet again...
Toonie oot



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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: Boomer  
Date:   Sat 8 Feb 23:00

Like SC toonie was not on the pitch and not responsible for some basic errors so maybe widtink wants SC out too?
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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Sat 8 Feb 23:08

Nope... Not sure why you would assume me wanting Toonie out equates to me wanting SC out... You do know it's two different sports don't you?
Just checking.
Or perhaps it was just poor banter on your part...
Anyhoo... Poor stuff from Scotland.
And it's no getting any better under the current regime.



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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: back oh the net  
Date:   Sat 8 Feb 23:20

Quote:

widtink, Sat 08 Feb 23:08

Nope... Not sure why you would assume me wanting Toonie out equates to me wanting SC out... You do know it's two different sports don't you?
Just checking.
Or perhaps it was just poor banter on your part...
Anyhoo... Poor stuff from Scotland.
And it's no getting any better under the current regime.


Tbf it’s no getting any worse either is it?

Come on ye pars ⚽️
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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Sat 8 Feb 23:31

Well we've just lost the Calcutta cup that we've held for two years.... That's a step backwards for a start.



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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Sun 9 Feb 00:27

It was a poor game in poor conditions where we dominated inside the 22 but failed to convert into a try! We ran out of ideas no wide play and tried to push over the line against a solid England defence.

We made a bad decision no to kick the penalty.

We made a basic error when the single long kick was allowed to bounce and then got bullied over the line in the one maul England took so on in the 22.

We got done by a fluky wind assisted try!

But weaknesses were obvious in attack and defence!

Can't see us beating anyone except Italy and that is no certainty!
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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: Frank Butchers LoveHandles  
Date:   Sun 9 Feb 00:59

I don't care to know alot about Rugby but we should pack it in. Year in Year out the same old pumpings in the six nations with the occasional plucky victory against the England to appease folk. Rubbish - 20 years since we were any good. Almost as bad as the fitba team.

Awight Pat!
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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Sun 9 Feb 02:05

I was interested to read widtink saying we've only got two professional teams. Has that always been the case? I wonder how we were able to do a slam in 1990.

I think we're a decent side. We're competitive. Weren't far off beating Ireland if we had a wee bit more cleverness when close to their line. Same with the England match. How did we not get pummeled by them? Giving them possession from our line-outs so often was a huge handicap - meant that about eight times when we should've enjoyed good territory and ball we were instead forced to defend and chase and work hard; plus our weakness in scrums and yet we lost by only 7, so I don't think we should be hard on our team.

Poor Hoggy, if only he hadn't inadvertently chested the ball over the line. That's all it came down to. He's brilliant a lot of the time but was unlucky there.

As for our scrum, we need more weight. Eat more pies!
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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 9 Feb 11:07

Another huge disappointment I really don't know why I get so excited and build my hopes up before every game especially against Engerlund
I know the conditions were bad but we make far more mistakes than all the other 5 teams put together
I think we should just stop playing rugby
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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Sun 9 Feb 11:18

South Africa apparently (if rumours are true) currently in negotiations to join us after the next word Cup and make it the seven nations tournament.
The more the merrier imo... But the other nations that have been asking to join for a while won't be best pleased.



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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Sun 9 Feb 11:51

Also....
https://www.theoffsideline.com/analysis-finn-russell-scottish-rugby/



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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 9 Feb 14:31

That is a good read widtink thank you
I could not read the Russell article as they wanted me to subscribe ?
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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Sun 9 Feb 14:43

Ah... Apologies.
I didn't notice that.



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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Sun 9 Feb 15:10

Quote:

Buspasspar, Sun 09 Feb 14:31

That is a good read widtink thank you
I could not read the Russell article as they wanted me to subscribe ?


Are you sure as it links through fine for me. Pretty damning of the SRU (no surprises) who are almost as inept as the SFA


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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 9 Feb 15:12

I note the drinking limit he exceeded was imposed by the players, not by Townsend. He was unhappy that they had agreed this in his absence. No doubt he had a longstanding grievance with Townsend but maybe he was looking for any excuse to challenge authority.
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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: shrek par  
Date:   Sun 9 Feb 16:02

Townsend is Dodson's nodding dog. Finn Russell's dad gets sacked for questioning the SRU , takes them to tribunal and suddenly Finn is out in the cold ....As the analysis and whispers say, there is an internal coup going on and the clubs are only waking up to it now. The top 4 exec are paid 78% of what was given to clubs last year and 4 times what the Irish equivalents receive. It absolutely stinks without even bringing the "debt free" claim into play.

Admin.
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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Sun 9 Feb 16:05

Putting the issue with the sru aside for a second... It's not exactly been a secret that Toonie and Russell haven't been best buddies for a long long time so this incident is just the tip of the iceberg.
Both are known to be a bit headstrong.... So who's gonna back down?
Rightly or wrongly... Without Russel we are a weaker side (disclaimer =when he's on his game... When he's not on his game he's a liability).
But... Rules is rules... And apparently he did break them.
As much as I'm not a fan of Gregors... If we continue in this run of poor form... He will be the scapegoat because of this whole nonsense.
Which is a tad unfair really.
But.. He wanted the job.
These kinda things crop up from time to time and he carries the can.
If we could get a win against somebody (a long shot... Even against Italy) it would ease the pressure on him.
But if we get the wooden spoon... I've no doubt the media and public will want him to go... And he will imo.
So... To sum up...
The whole things been a bit silly and they should just have a man hug and get back to normal... Otherwise I can only see one loser.
Russell will be fine... He's earning megabucks with his club... But I'd rather he was in the scottish line up... We need all the help we can get.
P. S... Toonie oot 🤣



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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 9 Feb 17:28

widtink good post
No man is bigger than the team and I think Finn was starting to believe his own press
The captaincy is weighing heavily on Hoggs shoulders he has had two stinkers
I watched Italy today and hope I'm wrong but I honestly think we will struggle to beat them over there .. they played some great Rugby today
I have never been a fan of Toony as a player or manager I also think when he goes and he has to go Dodson should go as well and hand his bonus payment back to the SRU
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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 16:01

And now Gregor has released a statement....
Following a newspaper article at the weekend I want to take the opportunity to address a few issues regarding Finn’s involvement with the squad.
“We strive to create an environment for players to be at their absolute best when playing for Scotland. To do that players must be aligned to the high standards of being involved in team sport at an elite level.
“These standards are set out through feedback from players and staff and are driven by the player leadership group or the head coach at varying times during a campaign.
"We have players who come from around a dozen different clubs and it’s really important they commit to an agreed standard of behaviour, which builds trust and is at the bedrock of a high-performance environment.

"These standards don’t change for one player, even if that’s not what they experience in their club setting.
"A really pleasing aspect of the last three weeks has been seeing the group commit to this high-performance standard, bond as a group of young men and show consistency and quality on the training field. They’ve been a pleasure to work with.
“Following the world cup, we reviewed a number of aspects of our environment and how that could lead to improved performances from the national team. This process involved taking lots of feedback from players, coaches, management and external input, on what we need to do better.
"Changes start from what we do as a coaching group and I learned a lot from the experience in Japan to how I can coach the team better. How we run our week’s training to unlock the full potential in the squad is what drives us as coaches.
"We believe we are in a much better place following the tournament and review. We clearly didn’t perform on the field as well as we had planned and, off the field, felt certain standards of behaviour had slipped at times.
"Our team leaders made the decision there would be no drinking after our opening match of the Six Nations and they have been working closely with me on improving other aspects of our environment.
"I’ve loved working with Finn over the past seven years. In that time, I’ve coached him at Glasgow Warriors and with Scotland. He was one of my first signings in the academy at Glasgow. I had watched him train and play the previous season and thought there was a player of real potential.
"That season, training in our academy and playing for Ayr, we felt he had earned the opportunity to be part of the exclusive Macphail scholarship programme in New Zealand. That experience proved to be invaluable and he really kicked on the following season, making his mark for the Warriors then for Scotland.
"He’s been brilliant to coach at club and international level. He’s very coachable and I’ve worked with him in a very similar way throughout those seven years.
"Finn left camp on the Sunday night because of a disagreement over alcohol with fellow players and chose to miss the following day’s (Monday) training and meetings. I arranged to meet with him that evening. It was a really positive meeting where we talked openly about life, rugby and what it means to play for Scotland.
"I left that meeting, after almost three hours, really optimistic that Finn would play a major part in our environment and be a committed team member. Unfortunately, things have not unfolded as well as we would have hoped.
"To play for Scotland takes total commitment. A lot of people make great sacrifices for the opportunity to represent 150 years of history and be among a special group of people who have had the honour of representing their nation.
"A lot of times, everything is not always how you’d like it to be. You might not agree with everything that is there, maybe because it’s a different coach than the one you have at club level or a different way of preparing or playing. What is important is that you commit to the what has been agreed and put the best interests of the team first.
"In the Six Nations and this season we are playing teams in the top five or six in the world and the effort, planning and standards that go into preparing people physically and mentally are really important, as are the bonds that bring people together and the trust that must be created within the group.
"The door will be open to any player with the required level of ability – if they commit to being a trusted member of the team. It’s been made clear that Finn could be a part of that future. However, he stated at the weekend that everything else has to change for him to come back, rather than accept and adhere to the standards currently being lived by the group.
"I hope this situation can be resolved but our focus is on working with the squad and building on the positive work that’s gone in from the players for our first two games."



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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 16:22

It's always good to hear both sides of the story before making any judgements. The same could be said about some of the threads on the Football Forum.
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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 16:34

Quote:-

"These standards don’t change for one player, even if that’s not what they experience in their club setting.
"A really pleasing aspect of the last three weeks has been seeing the group commit to this high-performance standard, bond as a group of young men and show consistency and quality on the training field. They’ve been a pleasure to work with.

What a pity they could not replicate that on the field of play :-(
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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 16:37

I cannot see any way back into the squad now for Finn after reading the latest articles and exchanges also the Tom English interview with Toonie I think the situation is beyond redemption
Hastings boy doing well tho and has the potential to be better than Finn
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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: shrek par  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 22:16

Hastings is not in the same league sadly. Russell may be mercurial but when he's in the mood he's unplayable. Big loss and tbh I'd play him bad boy or not. Toonie just needs to move on, preferably to a different job. But as long as he keeps licking the hands that feed him they'll see him right to the detriment of the country imho. Everything he's done has been with something that his predecessor has built.

Admin.
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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 22:24

I'd have to agree... Russell can (and regularly does) dominate a game. Hastings (decent job he's done so far aside), doesn't have that in his locker.
Hastings does the basics well... But he's nowhere near a like for like replacement for Russell.
But Toonie will not back down... And neither will Russell.
So we are where we are... And now without Jonny Gray too.
Doesn't look promising.
Hoggy needs a big game vs Italy for us to avoid the widden spoon....hes been posted missing so far.



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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 22:43

Good post shrek par

Mercurial ...Aye Unplayable ..No

Not a big loss ...made more mistakes for Country than Gains
Head up his own backside unfortunately

Hastings is in the same league without the risks that Russell offered
and will only get better with more experience

Its a simple game and Adam keeps it simple
Sadly as a Rugby Nation we are going backwards ....Why ?

Either the players are not good enough or listening to their coaches ...Or
The Coaches are not good enough to make the players better

Since the inception of professional rugby we have as a Proud Rugby playing Country been left behind

Also with most of the revenue paid out to the hierarchy as a bonus for abject failure then there is no future for Scotland in a 6 nation set up
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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: shrek par  
Date:   Wed 12 Feb 05:39

I'm sorry he is unplayable when in the mood and that's been on the record from some of the best coaches around. Hastings doesn't have the vision or game changing flair that Russell has. Its like comparing a rough joiner to a cabinet maker.

Admin.
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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Wed 12 Feb 08:20

Correct shrek par ...when in the mood
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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 22 Feb 15:11

Phenomenal burst of speed from Hogg to score that try.
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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: twin par  
Date:   Sat 22 Feb 15:29

Don't agree.Yes,In years gone by.But not at the prices we are paying now.
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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: Frank Butchers LoveHandles  
Date:   Sun 23 Feb 00:07

Avoided the wooden spoon. Well done lads.

Awight Pat!
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 Re: 6 Nations.
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Sun 23 Feb 00:12

Should've just chucked it after 2 games right enough

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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