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 Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Tue 31 Mar 00:19

Length of the original was causing some folk issues so please continue the thread here.
Stay safe awbody 👍



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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: wetherby  
Date:   Tue 31 Mar 10:30

Thanks for posting that link to the Imperial College paper Londonparsfan. Fascinating read, bit alarming when they are talking about 4-5 months of social distancing meaning it may be end August before we see any signs of normality.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 31 Mar 18:08

You are very welcome!
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Tue 31 Mar 22:34

God help India etc!!
If anyone thinks a person that ate a bat spread this 🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: wetherby  
Date:   Tue 31 Mar 22:49

So going back to the Imperial College paper , page 10 Fig 3, looking at the graph it suggests that a month or two after ending the social restrictions we are in the middle of a peak epidemic Oct 20-January 21. To avoid this they are basically suggesting that social restrictions would operate 2 months on 1 month relaxed. This has been alluded to by referring to switching them ( social mobility restrictions) on/ off during the daily Downing Street press conference.

It's all rather alarming. We certainly won't be out of the woods by August.Here is hoping for a vaccine breakthrough.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Tue 31 Mar 22:58

The Chinese have been eating insects/bats etc for ever so how come it gets to infecting the world??
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Tue 31 Mar 22:59

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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Tue 31 Mar 23:05

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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: DulochConvert  
Date:   Tue 31 Mar 23:14

I am still working, my job is technical measurement on the railway to insure trains can run.
However today I was sitting in Edinburgh at Camertoll waiting for access.
Social distancing isn’t happening, I watched 6 members of Sainsbury staff out for a fag all watching one persons phone. Another group of 4 were passing around paperwork.
I then walked up to the centre entrance thinking it would be one in etc but no! Each shop had there own policy with people standing anywhere there were even folk sitting in the massage chairs etc, you would think it was a Saturday!!!
Makes you feel depressed when you see some people’s attitude!
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: shrek par  
Date:   Tue 31 Mar 23:35

Yellow for changing a deleted post

Admin.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Tue 31 Mar 23:38

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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: dave67  
Date:   Tue 31 Mar 23:39

See above


Long links causing issues on mobile apps

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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Tue 31 Mar 23:45

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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: dave67  
Date:   Tue 31 Mar 23:47

Again that has been explained by Shrek par. Why you got carded

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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: wetherby  
Date:   Tue 31 Mar 23:48

Possibly a Chinese agent who didn't like the content of the link.
Issuing a Yellow seems a bit OTT Admin?
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: shrek par  
Date:   Tue 31 Mar 23:51

The yellow was for altering a deleted post. The post was removed after it was reported.

Admin.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Tue 31 Mar 23:51

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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: DulochConvert  
Date:   Tue 31 Mar 23:52

RM I don’t see the reference that’s a old paper that my sister and her husband were heavily involved in both been employed at Edinburgh university then. They see no relationship, they are now in Cambridge and currently producing various proteins which are required for testing.
My friends wife is testing the virus with current aids, Ebola drugs in a lab in Glasgow, they had to spend 4 weeks making 1/2 L of the virus before they could even start testing. They think there data will be another 8 weeks.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Tue 31 Mar 23:58

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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 1 Apr 09:37

I get that viruses can be man made but this article goes into detail as to why it has been dismissed as a man made virus:

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-covid-19-not-human-made-lab-genetic-analysis-nature

I haven't seen anything that counters the study but if you have seen something please do share.

The article also looks at whether it could have been a natural strain being worked on in the lab.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: dave67  
Date:   Wed 1 Apr 09:47


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11283723/coronavirus-uk-live-lockdown-covid-19

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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 1 Apr 10:23

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/mar/31/nhs-staff-gagged-over-coronavirus-protective-equipment-shortages?CMP=share_btn_fb
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Wed 1 Apr 10:24

This is why folks who feel well need to go to work or there will be no work for them to go back to!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52114414




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: dave67  
Date:   Wed 1 Apr 10:55

Insurers not affected 😥
https://www.ft.com/content/92518d19-ce35-4af3-90f4-64cb00f8e2f5
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Saltire  
Date:   Wed 1 Apr 12:46

notice .net chief medical officer has become vehemently quiet on this after how vocal he was in the early days to downplay all this. Close family member in ICU medical enduced coma, kidney failure and close family friend being told after 72 hours on a ward in Edinburgh that next step will be a medical coma to preserve organs whilst body struggles with oxygen levels.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: dave67  
Date:   Wed 1 Apr 12:57

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scots-amazon-depot-hit-coronavirus-2179259

Bet they wont close

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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 1 Apr 13:26

Quote:

Saltire, Wed 1 Apr 12:46

notice .net chief medical officer has become vehemently quiet on this after how vocal he was in the early days to downplay all this. Close family member in ICU medical enduced coma, kidney failure and close family friend being told after 72 hours on a ward in Edinburgh that next step will be a medical coma to preserve organs whilst body struggles with oxygen levels.


Sad to hear that. Hopefully they make a full recovery.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: wetherby  
Date:   Wed 1 Apr 14:01

Dominik Kozma ( son of Istvan and born in Dunfermline) has tested positive for the virus.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52115535
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Wed 1 Apr 14:23

The lack of testing in this country is a scandal. Not the time at the moment, but heads must roll for this in the future.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Wed 1 Apr 14:29

Reports on Yahoo that Italy is now turning to violence due to people realising that there is going to be no money coming in!
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 1 Apr 14:29

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/uk-government-forced-to-lie-its-way-out-of-trouble/01/04/

Testing was that?
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Wed 1 Apr 14:31

Is this an April fool.

British American Tobacco, the maker of brands including Lucky Strike, Dunhill, Rothmans and Benson & Hedges, has said it has a potential coronavirus vaccine in development using tobacco plants.

BAT has turned the vast resources usually focused on creating products that pose health risks to millions of smokers worldwide to battling the global pandemic. The company said:

If testing goes well, BAT is hopeful that, with the right partners and support from government agencies, between 1m and 3m doses of the vaccine could be manufactured per week, beginning in June.”

The London-listed company used the announcement to trump the positive aspects of its tobacco empire, saying that “new, fast-growing tobacco plant technology” put it ahead of others trying to develop a vaccine.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Wed 1 Apr 14:33

Political rumblings starting to emerge after Gove's "car crash " briefing yesterday.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Wed 1 Apr 14:54

563 deaths in the UK today. The lies about the lack of testing need to stop, now.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 1 Apr 15:11

Think I possibly forgot this too:

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-eu-ventilator-scheme-missed-email-covid19-boris-johnson-2020-3?r=US&IR=T

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-brussels-uk-ventilators-eu-scheme-communication-a9430571.html
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: wetherby  
Date:   Wed 1 Apr 15:25

Is it just me but I cant even stand listening to Gove- I put the sound off on the Press Conference until it was time for questions from the press.

Of course its not just lack of testing and overall preparation but the 15000 beds that were removed from the NHS between 2010 and now and the fact that there are 40,000 nursing vacancies.
The UK is something like 28th out of 31 European countries in the number of critical care beds, Germany has four times the amount of Critical Care Beds that we do per capita.
The Tories have brought the NHS to its knees and the majority of the country are just waking up to that fact.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 1 Apr 15:52

Couldn't agree more and that was in several of my posts in the other thread.

We were running our capacity at 90% full and this was 20% over the recommended safe level of capacity for critical care beds.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: shrek par  
Date:   Wed 1 Apr 16:32

That daily record link has disappeared hmmm. What kind of company would do that????????

Admin.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Wed 1 Apr 16:48

The political panic is about the lack of NHS facilities to deal with the virus. This was a man made decision by politicians over a number of years and throws up the possibility of people dying unnecessarily due to lack of ventilators or proper beds. It amounts to gross negligence on a criminal scale.

The response so far has been to play up the prospect of death in order to distract from the earlier decisions which produced this crisis. Piers Morgan is leading the well paid chorus singing from this hymn sheet who fear their appalling greed over the years might be linked in the public mind with the crisis. The Daily Mail headline was 563 MORE DEAD! Since on average over 1500 people die each day in the UK this is not much of a headline but serves to place the focus on fear, rather than an examination of why it was necessary to place society under house arrest in the first place.

Johnson and Gove are fighting not just for their political lives, but for the system that rewards them handsomely. If that means breaking the economy for a generation then so be it; they can always use the virus as an excuse for any shortage of money in future. What they cannot do is admit it was their greed, their visceral hatred for any form of public service which led them to underfund the NHS and cause a situation where citizens would be bereft of treatment. Hence the lockdown. Hence the daily fear gas from the tabloids.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 1 Apr 17:09

Sorry Smmer but if 1500 people die a die in the UK and the virus has bumped off over 500 then that's a 33% increase in daily deaths and that is not "playing up" the number of deaths. That's a stark increase in the number of deaths that needs to be controlled.

I do agree with much of the rest of your post though which basically boils down to a substantial lack of investment before this pandemic even hit followed by a refusal to do what countries like South Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, Estonia etc all managed to do probably because it might have been perceived that it would cost too much.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Wed 1 Apr 17:15

sammer it scunners me to hear the latest mantra protect the NHS.... the very same NHS they systematically tried to destroy
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: wetherby  
Date:   Wed 1 Apr 17:36

I was beyond anger when Patel announced that automatic 6 months visa extension to NHS foreign workers. 3 months ago we wanted rid of you but now we are asking you to put your lives on the line and for that you can hang around for a few more months! Their hypocrisy knows no bounds , they are utterly shameless , their actions , their decisions are putting NHS workers lives at risk.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 1 Apr 17:57

Aye that was a stoater!
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Wed 1 Apr 18:15

So much for his great procurement of ventilators.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18351204.coronavirus-bbc-presenter-stumped-uks-30-ventilators-claim/

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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Wed 1 Apr 18:18

LPF,

Regarding the 563 who died, we have no way of knowing how many of them would have been part of the ‘average’ daily toll of around 1500. From what we know so far it seems that fatalities are mainly older people or those with existing health problems, so it is unlikely that many would be ‘extra’ deaths. There is a lot of modelling being done by experts but the only truly reliable data is the body count. In an average year ‘flu kills around 0.2% of the UK population. The Hong Kong variant in the late 1960s killed nearer to 0.5%. We don’t know the figures for this virus obviously but the way the matter is being reported you would think it was decimating the population; there is no evidence of this as yet.

I see ‘testing’ is now coming to the top of the agenda. That might be a great help, for no society can survive in lockdown for long without the cure becoming more deadly than the disease. To separate the healthy form the sick would seem an obvious move.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 1 Apr 18:21

It's around 1700 pet day. The question would be whether that rate has significantly increased in the past fortnight.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Wed 1 Apr 18:32

Let's see how Sweden gets on shall we....
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: AJ27  
Date:   Wed 1 Apr 19:52

Sammer makes a valid point - 563 people did not die of Coronavirus, they died with it - unfortunately many of them will have died regardless, we’ll never know how many.

How many people will die prematurely in the coming months or years because they are now being denied treatment for other illnesses that they would normally be receiving?

The decision makers have to make decisions that none of us would want to be involved in - I’m not convinced that the lockdown is the right thing but the government would be crucified if they didn’t do this when most of the rest of the world is.

This in no way though takes away from the criminal underfunding of the NHS.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Wed 1 Apr 19:58

The lockdown is only necessary because of the criminal underfunding of the NHS by every government since 1979 which has removed its ability to cope properly with anything out of the ordinary (not that it is given proper funding to deal even with the ordinary these days)

If we had a higher beds per capita ratio then our health system would be able to absorb the extra patients. This would, of course, only be allowed to exist in a system with logistics and staffing levels which were fit for purpose.

The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel the warmth.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Wed 1 Apr 20:13

The lockdown will not stop it just delay it.A decent testing system with tracing contacts is the only way to stop it spreading.I believe we are hoping eventually to have the same amount of tests in a week that Germany has per day.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Wed 1 Apr 20:23

Quote:

jake89, Wed 1 Apr 18:21

It's around 1700 pet day. The question would be whether that rate has significantly increased in the past fortnight.


Converting several large spaces to temporary hospitals and the construction of large temporary morgues perhaps suggests a significant increase is imminent, unfortunately, if not already here.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 1 Apr 20:43

They've said today the hospital at the SEC may not even be required. Here's hoping.

It's a difficult one as it's being blown out of proportion BUT if it wasn't you'd have even more idiots ignoring the advice.

Both my neighbours have been going to work. Neither are key workers. Both could very easily work from home.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh  
Date:   Wed 1 Apr 22:04

I think it is fairly certain that, if there had been no restrictions, the number of people hospitalised at the same time would have been a major problem. We won't know for sure until next year, I suspect.

I am still clinging to the hope that the number of asymptomatic or extremely mild infections is huge. I really hope some antibody surveys will start to provide results in the coming weeks. If 2-3 million have already been infected in the UK then that will be very reassuring for hospitals.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Frank Butchers LoveHandles  
Date:   Wed 1 Apr 22:47

Quote:

wetherby, Wed 1 Apr 15:25

Is it just me but I cant even stand listening to Gove- I put the sound off on the Press Conference until it was time for questions from the press.

Of course its not just lack of testing and overall preparation but the 15000 beds that were removed from the NHS between 2010 and now and the fact that there are 40,000 nursing vacancies.
The UK is something like 28th out of 31 European countries in the number of critical care beds, Germany has four times the amount of Critical Care Beds that we do per capita.
The Tories have brought the NHS to its knees and the majority of the country are just waking up to that fact.


Gove is an absolute c***. Worse than Bojo and the rest of the tory cult. Only IDS comes close to him.

Awight Pat!
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Thu 2 Apr 13:04

I HATE quoting social media "experts" but a good sensible thread on the topic being discussed

https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1244920071866028033

"The lockdown is only necessary because of the criminal underfunding of the NHS by every government since 1979 which has removed its ability to cope properly with anything out of the ordinary (not that it is given proper funding to deal even with the ordinary these days)

If we had a higher beds per capita ratio then our health system would be able to absorb the extra patients. This would, of course, only be allowed to exist in a system with logistics and staffing levels which were fit for purpose"

What is being dealt with is unprecedented and but for a few outliers the entire of europe is currently locked down. As a devolved issue the scottish governemnt has chance to buck the trend and finding money to kit out SEC to potentially never be used but spaces such as queen Margaret which is an actual hospital still sits like a ghost town.

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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 2 Apr 14:00

This is not a dig at you PUP but I keep asking a question of the people telling us this is unprecedented: if this is so unprecedented how have Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore and South Korea managed to keep a lid on it (at least relatively in SK)?

I've included South Korea as they had a surge in cases initially and then brought it back under control to some degree.

If you add their populations together it comes to 88.25 million which is greater than the UK.

Collectively their death toll is 182 of which South Korea accounts for 169 of those as they had a couple of super spreader cases. We are at 2352 as of yesterday. All of those countries recorded their first CV case before we did and all of them have far more exposure to travel with China.

If this is unprecedented was not unprecedented for them too?

Italy has an aging population? Hong Kong has the oldest median population in the world and 4 CV related deaths.

Population density a contributing factor? Singapore and Hong Kong have the 3rd and 4th largest population densities in the world.

This article reviews our pandemic planning..

http://eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=87565

Also links to:

http://eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=87564

Plan A was never a good one and the Government have failed to bring together a coherent Plan B.

South Korea has led the way on the testing vs lockdown:

<https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/03/coronavirus-cases-have-dropped-sharply-south-korea-whats-secret-its-success#>
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Thu 2 Apr 14:06

I know not a dig mate. I ask the same questions and when it comes to numbers I look at scotland as london figures are causing a massive scew on figures and massive population density issues. It its unprecedented in terms of shut down of countries/travel etc. I know South Korea were temperature checking at airports VERY early on etc yet you can still fly to UK from China/USA/France/Italy and walk onto the streets unchallenged with a little poster at airport with "guidance"

QA hospital in Pompey for example have 73 confirmed cases and 50 deaths.

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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 2 Apr 14:10

That's got to be one of the most bonkers parts to the lockdown. The vast majority of people flying into the country head straight for... public transport.

The tubes in London are at reduced capacity as well which forces more people onto the same trains which obviously increases exposure if to others of anyone arriving is a carrier.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Thaipar  
Date:   Thu 2 Apr 14:24

Here iin. Thailand we have 15 deaths up til now.
Today the government advised as mainly all new cóvid cases involve people who have travelled into Thailand, although they do screen all incoming passengers, that the airports will be closed to all until the 15th of April.
So no foreigners or Thai citizens allowed in.
We are on a curfew from tomorrow from 10pm to 4am to try stop movement of the virus.
Bars have been closed for 2 weeks now and some provinces have closed all shopping malls. Restaurants are only allowed to do takeaway food and street vendors are not allowed any customers to sit down for food either.
The courts here have just started dealing with people who have been breaking the social distancing rules.
18 people decided to have a boat party on Monday night in our province, all got sent to the pokey for between 2-4 months.

Read earlier some foreigners with at least 3 from UK had a party last night in Phuket so God help them when it reaches court.

Please don't book me Admin, it will ruin my life.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 2 Apr 14:30

I had seen that Thailand had a relatively low number of fatalities but hadn't done on reading there.

Is there anything you think they've done particularly well to handle it just out of a matter of interest?
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 2 Apr 14:30

Quote:

wetherby, Wed 1 Apr 17:36

I was beyond anger when Patel announced that automatic 6 months visa extension to NHS foreign workers. 3 months ago we wanted rid of you but now we are asking you to put your lives on the line and for that you can hang around for a few more months! Their hypocrisy knows no bounds , they are utterly shameless , their actions , their decisions are putting NHS workers lives at risk.


I couldn't agree with you more, mate. Why couldn't she have given them indefinite leave to stay here, as long as they were in gainful employment even, as a thank you gesture for their courageous and selfless contribution to our sick and dying?



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 2 Apr 14:31

That would have been a great solution but then I'd probably rather have you in Government than what we have now.

In fact that extends to most of .net.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Thaipar  
Date:   Thu 2 Apr 15:00

Quote:

londonparsfan, Thu 2 Apr 14:30

I had seen that Thailand had a relatively low number of fatalities but hadn't done on reading there.

Is there anything you think they've done particularly well to handle it just out of a matter of interest?


From very early on they announced social distancing.
Since mid March most foreigners have been stopped from travelling to Thailand. That's why more stringent measures are brought in today as Thai who have been on holiday or on business to other countries are then bringing the virus back with them. Initial screening at the airport has caught a few, but some don't show until a few days later.

A lot of Thais were working illegally in South Korea, when the virus broke they were told OK before you fly home you go into quarantine. Ones who had left before that decision was made were then taken to army camps for 14 days quarantine. Even though the numbers are still low and the rainy season is just around the corner all of the provinces have buildings to take suspected patients to, while other buildings will take the patients who are released from hospital treatment.
New facilities for treating the infected are also in place.
My Mrs has to go to daily briefings with the Provincial Governor as her boss holds the purse strings for all emergency situations.

Another good thing they done was amend the air conditioning system so the flow wasn't just putting it around the room, somehow there is a system that allows the air to leave the room. That's technical so I didn't ask anymore about that 🤔🤔.

Please don't book me Admin, it will ruin my life.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Thu 2 Apr 15:14

I recall at the start of the outbreak it was reported the virus could not cope with high temperatures and the summer would help reduce it. Course then cases appeared in places like Australia in their summer so have those initial reports been disproven or is it the case that hotter countries are experiencing lower volumes than cooler climates?


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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Thu 2 Apr 15:26

Standing next to Gove must be a safe place to be....
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Thu 2 Apr 16:10

Looks like the US looking after themselves.

A consignment of masks heading from China to one of the worst hit coronavirus areas of France was hijacked by American buyers as it was about to be dispatched, it was reported on Thursday, writes Kim Willsher.

The masks were on a plane on the tarmac at Shanghai Airport ready to take off when US buyers turned up reportedly waving wads of cash and offered three times what the French were paying.

The plane later left for an unreported destination in the States.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 2 Apr 16:12

That also reads likes the Chinese are looking after themselves.

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 2 Apr 16:16

Quote:

Thaipar, Thu 2 Apr 15:00

Quote:

londonparsfan, Thu 2 Apr 14:30

I had seen that Thailand had a relatively low number of fatalities but hadn't done on reading there.

Is there anything you think they've done particularly well to handle it just out of a matter of interest?


From very early on they announced social distancing.
Since mid March most foreigners have been stopped from travelling to Thailand. That's why more stringent measures are brought in today as Thai who have been on holiday or on business to other countries are then bringing the virus back with them. Initial screening at the airport has caught a few, but some don't show until a few days later.

A lot of Thais were working illegally in South Korea, when the virus broke they were told OK before you fly home you go into quarantine. Ones who had left before that decision was made were then taken to army camps for 14 days quarantine. Even though the numbers are still low and the rainy season is just around the corner all of the provinces have buildings to take suspected patients to, while other buildings will take the patients who are released from hospital treatment.
New facilities for treating the infected are also in place.
My Mrs has to go to daily briefings with the Provincial Governor as her boss holds the purse strings for all emergency situations.

Another good thing they done was amend the air conditioning system so the flow wasn't just putting it around the room, somehow there is a system that allows the air to leave the room. That's technical so I didn't ask anymore about that 🤔🤔.


Thanks Thaipar it's interesting to hear from other countries as to how it's being handled.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 2 Apr 16:19

Quote:

P, Thu 2 Apr 15:14

I recall at the start of the outbreak it was reported the virus could not cope with high temperatures and the summer would help reduce it. Course then cases appeared in places like Australia in their summer so have those initial reports been disproven or is it the case that hotter countries are experiencing lower volumes than cooler climates?


I think that was based on how other similar viruses reacted to hot temperatures and I dont think its been disproven (could be wrong!) in relation to CV so it may well help us if it is true.

Last I checked there had been significantly more cases in northern hemisphere countries than southern and the temperature theory was still a working hypothesis as a contributing factor.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 2 Apr 16:40

Quote:

londonparsfan, Thu 2 Apr 14:31

That would have been a great solution but then I'd probably rather have you in Government than what we have now.

In fact that extends to most of .net.


Is this an example of damning someone with faint praise, lpf?
e.g. Even you would be better than that crock of $h!t currently masquerading as our Government...☺

In all seriousness, in view of all the additional evidence which is stacking up, I'd like to re-evaluate a statement I made last week in which I suggested that we shouldn't use the coronavirus stats as a stick to beat this Government with, because there were too many unknown variables at play.

It's now becoming increasingly clear that there were a number of things that could have been done differently had they learned from other countries which saw the virus arrive earlier. Even Italy has commented that the UK Government has ignored the expertise and advice it passed on.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 2 Apr 17:00

Fair point I should have thought that through 😂😂
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 2 Apr 20:23

£13 billion of NHS debt has been written off. The magic money tree has sprouted a few new branches.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: DulochConvert  
Date:   Thu 2 Apr 23:52

How can a government body’s dept be written off? It’s still in the National books, is being off set against other body’s.
The same way NWR dept was decided it was part of the National dept, yes it’s possible the government decided that NWR don’t hold the dept, but it’s still on UK dept statutes
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: back oh the net  
Date:   Fri 3 Apr 06:28

Quote:

wee eck, Thu 02 Apr 20:23

£13 billion of NHS debt has been written off. The magic money tree has sprouted a few new branches.


It’s amazing what governments can do once they have been found out still don’t change the fact that the shafting the nhs has had over the years from tory governments is the reason it’s struggling to cope

Come on ye pars ⚽️
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Fri 3 Apr 11:20

And still they are looking after their pals!🤬

https://bylinetimes.com/2020/04/02/disaster-capitalism-conservative-party-donor-cashes-in-on-uk-government-made-ppe-shortages-amidst-covid19-crisis/
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Fri 3 Apr 11:24

I'm confused and it does not take much :)

Why are there still regular flights into Heathrow (I've just checked) from infected Countries...... and are all passengers being tested ? quarantined ? or are we just letting them run loose ?
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Thaipar  
Date:   Fri 3 Apr 11:28

Quote:

Buspasspar, Fri 3 Apr 11:24

I'm confused and it does not take much :)

Why are there still regular flights into Heathrow (I've just checked) from infected Countries...... and are all passengers being tested ? quarantined ? or are we just letting them run loose ?


Exactly BPP and no tests being done.
We have 19 deaths here as oftoday and our airports are closed to All tourists and Thais.
UK is very lax I think.

Please don't book me Admin, it will ruin my life.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: parsmad68  
Date:   Fri 3 Apr 13:11

Singapore has shut all factories this weekend except those who are a major financial contributor to the economy. Personally I don’t like the double standards but as we are a major financial contributor to the Singapore economy, then we stay open.
So I am happy, but don’t like myself for being happy. All people who can work from home are still not required to come to the factory, which gives some solace in these conflicting times.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Thaipar  
Date:   Fri 3 Apr 13:21

It's one of the things I would criticise here. Our province has shut all malls restaurants only do take away food curfew now between 10pm and 4am but factory workers all keep working. I have been in a few factories here and its impossible to adhere to social distancing, likewise the buses that take the staff to work they are all full no empty seats, but the economy must speak before safety!

Overall I am quite impressed with a lot of the measures in place but some things just be wilder me.

Please don't book me Admin, it will ruin my life.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Fri 3 Apr 13:25

Most will "just" be repatriation flights buspass but no there are no checks on anyone coming in. Certainly not into Scottish airports anyway

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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Fri 3 Apr 13:33

Horse has bolted so it’s not like keeping the disease out and I assume that there is an appetite for some illness as part of building out wider immunity while still flattening the curve and that if social distancing is maintained then the volume they would infect is reduced.

Are a small groups getting off a repatriation flight going to infect more people than a tube train packed with key worker commuters? Are they more likely to get infected on the tube than where they have come from?


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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Fri 3 Apr 16:33

How long can they keep Boris the bomb scare away from the press conferences with the pretence he has tested positive?
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 3 Apr 17:00

I believe he has got it just like tens if not hundreds of thousands of others in this country.

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 3 Apr 17:44

Credit to the three ladies - Sturgeon, Calderwood and Freeman - who have borne the brunt of the burden in addressing the media in Scotland over the last few weeks and shown great stamina and stoicism in the face of some unanswerable questions.

'When do you think the pandemic will peak?'
'How long will the lockdown last?'
'When can we book our summer holidays?'
etc
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Fri 3 Apr 19:10

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Fri 3 Apr 17:00

I believe he has got it just like tens if not hundreds of thousands of others in this country.


I don't think he has. He's been removed from the front line because he was useless. An easy way out.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 3 Apr 19:22

Nah can't see it. If such a lie was exposed it would cost him his job there and then.

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Fri 3 Apr 20:27

Johnson’s career has been riddled with self-confessed lies so the suggestion he is merely lying low cannot be entirely discounted. He might have caught the ‘flu like many do every year in the UK but whether it’s this particular virus I wouldn’t be so sure. Coming out to explain what the tabloids are referring to as a ‘rising death toll’ is not for him. Better to lie low until the rate of infection slows down when he can emerge to deliver the good news.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: auldpar  
Date:   Fri 3 Apr 20:51

He has discovered that the job of being Prime Minister is not the doddle he thought it would be. He can't handle it and is in hiding.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 3 Apr 20:52

A bit like Merkel in Germany then.

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Fri 3 Apr 20:52

The Trump style.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/03/mask-wars-coronavirus-outbidding-demand
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh  
Date:   Fri 3 Apr 23:15

Did Johnson test positive for the virus - Yes
If you think that's a lie then you overestimate the ability of people to hide things from the public.

Is Johnson pleased to be off the front line at the moment with a valid excuse - Almost certainly
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Fri 3 Apr 23:38

Ref: moviescot
Fri 3 Apr 19:10

<<< I don't think he has [got it]. He's been removed from the front line because he was useless. An easy way out. >>>

Ref: The One Who Knocks
Fri 3 Apr 19:22

<<< Nah can't see it. If such a lie was exposed it would cost him his job there and then....>>>


What? Golden boy Bojo? He with forked tongue? Sacked for lying? That's a good un. 😂😂😂😂

Mind, I avoid seeing or hearing him in the media so I don't even know if he's doing statements and/or skype appearances. I like to think if I was PM I'd keep doing those things, sick or not. Just a few words a day to let Joe public know the PM is always with us and eager to serve.









Post Edited (Fri 03 Apr 23:46)
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Fri 3 Apr 23:53

''If you think that's a lie then you overestimate the ability of people to hide things from the public.''

It might be you are underestimating that ability. PM Winston Churchill suffered a serious stroke in the summer of 1953 that required him to take a break due to ‘exhaustion.’ He was paralysed down one side of his body. This was not known to the public at the time.

He did not officially retire until April 1955. Many years later one former colleague claimed, in rather harsh language, that Churchill was effectively 'ga ga' in his later days at leader of the country.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Sat 4 Apr 03:40

Listen, I’m no big fan of Boris or this government, but some of you should stay up late and watch CNN shows with guys like Don Lemon and Anderson Cooper. I can tell you that the American people have really been failed by Trump and his government. The death toll over there could turn out to be tragically staggering




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sat 4 Apr 09:31

US President Donald Trump has said he will not wear a face mask despite new medical guidance advising Americans to do so.

He could not see himself greeting "presidents, prime ministers, dictators, kings, queens" in the Oval Office while wearing one, he said.

I thought the whole idea was NOT to meet people I don't think he has quite grasped the situation
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sat 4 Apr 09:45

News this morning that testing kits were removed from Dundee University by Royal Marines and taken to Milton Keynes on the orders of BJ!!

This ain't going to go down too well. 🤬🤬🤬
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sat 4 Apr 09:48

All top papers now turning against Public health England and Dominics Government
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sat 4 Apr 10:05

Meanwhile Trump being accused of piracy for intercepting PPE supplies that were heading for other countries!🤔
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 4 Apr 10:06

Quote:

LochgellyAlbert, Sat 4 Apr 09:45

News this morning that testing kits were removed from Dundee University by Royal Marines and taken to Milton Keynes on the orders of BJ!!

This ain't going to go down too well. 🤬🤬🤬


Where was that reported? Milton Keynes is where the national testing centre is
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Sat 4 Apr 11:11

There are three national testing centres, including one in Glasgow.

I wonder if what's happened here is that equipment and reagents have been moved? It makes little sense for unused testing kits to be taken to the processing lab, no?

The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel the warmth.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sat 4 Apr 11:32

Reported on Good Morning Scotland on BBC apparently.

Where was that reported? Milton Keynes is where the national testing centre is
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 4 Apr 11:38

The testing kits should go where they are needed most. If that's down south where the virus is more prevalent then so be it.

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Sat 4 Apr 11:48

I think history will show us that the "cure" for this horrible disease was worse than its symptoms. We shall see though.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sat 4 Apr 11:55

https://twitter.com/ScottishThink/status/1246365239962152961?s=09
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Sat 4 Apr 12:36

Quote:

BigJPar, Sat 4 Apr 11:48

I think history will show us that the "cure" for this horrible disease was worse than its symptoms. We shall see though.


My thought exactly! People I know have been saying the want lock down, they want the army on the streets to enforce it, they want apps to track their movements and most of all they want to be injected by a vaccine. Be careful what you wish for
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 4 Apr 13:06

The article mentions robots, not testing kits. Am I missing something here?
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Sat 4 Apr 13:21

Testing kits and marines is just internet made up BS.

Uni of Dundee statement;

On Saturday morning the laboratory of Professor Angus Lamond, in the School of Life Sciences, handed over two highly specialised Thermo KingFisher Flex robots to the Royal Navy, for urgent transportation to the first consolidated national diagnostic centre in Milton Keynes.

These machines are, in the words of Downing Street officials, like `gold dust,’ so the fact we have been able to provide two so quickly to aid the national effort has been hugely appreciated," Professor David Maguire, Interim Principal and Vice-Chancellor. “


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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 4 Apr 14:36

🤦‍♂️ People need to stop listening to Sharon on Facebook.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Sat 4 Apr 15:17

Always amazes me (and this isn't aimed at anyone on here) the amount of folk who see stuff on Facebook (other social media platforms are available) and repost straight away without doing a basic fact check first.
Facebook apparently has made a commitment recently to clamp down on fake news... I see no difference so far.
Funniest ones I've seen during this awful virus has been "don't eat ice cream cos it lowers your immunity to covid 19" and just yesterday I seen a "they've just found out that steam kills the Caronavirus in its tracks... Fill a basin full of boiling water and put your head over it with a towel to keep the steam in...".
And as usual.. These posts supposedly originate from a top doctor or a scientist etc...
It's all (or most of it) utter nonsense.
🤣



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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 4 Apr 15:20

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-52157131/coronavirus-russia-uses-facial-recognition-to-tackle-covid-19

Red Star you'll be relieved you're no living in Russia.



Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd

Post Edited (Sat 04 Apr 15:21)
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Sat 4 Apr 15:33

Quote:

red-star-par, Sat 4 Apr 12:36

Quote:

BigJPar, Sat 4 Apr 11:48

I think history will show us that the "cure" for this horrible disease was worse than its symptoms. We shall see though.


My thought exactly! People I know have been saying the want lock down, they want the army on the streets to enforce it, they want apps to track their movements and most of all they want to be injected by a vaccine. Be careful what you wish for


Lockdown was only necessary for certain groups of very vulnerable people. Everyone else could have went about their business with a relatively small risk of dying.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 4 Apr 15:40

What about protecting NHS workers and care workers and all the other people who need to be hands on with those people in vulnerable groups? I really don't think that scores of governments around the world are doing this if the scientific and medical experts that advise them didn't believe it was necessary.

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Sat 4 Apr 16:30

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sat 4 Apr 15:40

What about protecting NHS workers and care workers and all the other people who need to be hands on with those people in vulnerable groups? I really don't think that scores of governments around the world are doing this if the scientific and medical experts that advise them didn't believe it was necessary.


I don't think anyone has said lockdown is going to reduce the number of people who are ultimately infected with the disease.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 4 Apr 16:56

No but we can't have too many catching it at the same time. Just don't have enough intensive care beds.

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 4 Apr 17:13

If you did a complete lockdown the virus would disappear very quickly as it would have nowhere to go. Unfortunately, people can't even follow basic instructions. Apparently folk are having a party (all 2m apart) at the houses behind Tesco. Why take the risk? So you can sit outside in a cold wind having a can? Brilliant.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Sat 4 Apr 17:47

Quote:

jake89, Sat 4 Apr 17:13

If you did a complete lockdown the virus would disappear very quickly as it would have nowhere to go. Unfortunately, people can't even follow basic instructions. Apparently folk are having a party (all 2m apart) at the houses behind Tesco. Why take the risk? So you can sit outside in a cold wind having a can? Brilliant.


It isnt quite a simple as that unfortunately as the medics are humans too and they would catch it.

Now if they had sufficient and appropriate PPE....

If that's true those people are cretins.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Sat 4 Apr 18:11

'Lockdown was only necessary for certain groups of very vulnerable people. Everyone else could have went about their business with a relatively small risk of dying.'

That seems to have been the approach in Sweden which was attracting much comment a few days ago, but seems to have gone off the radar.

The impression I have is not so favourable as TOWK. I think governments often act, and remember they are never short of advice, in order to be seen to be doing something. A bit like a football manager putting on a sub to change things, then dancing around near the dug out to show the fans he cares. Quite often it amounts to no more than a Red Indian doing a rain dance.

The lockdown policy, which is effectively a form of collective punishment, is no guarantee of controlling this virus in the long term so far as I can see. And the counter effects are hugely damaging.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Sat 4 Apr 19:32

Quote:

widtink, Sat 04 Apr 15:17

Always amazes me (and this isn't aimed at anyone on here) the amount of folk who see stuff on Facebook (other social media platforms are available) and repost straight away without doing a basic fact check first.
Facebook apparently has made a commitment recently to clamp down on fake news... I see no difference so far.
Funniest ones I've seen during this awful virus has been "don't eat ice cream cos it lowers your immunity to covid 19" and just yesterday I seen a "they've just found out that steam kills the Caronavirus in its tracks... Fill a basin full of boiling water and put your head over it with a towel to keep the steam in...".
And as usual.. These posts supposedly originate from a top doctor or a scientist etc...
It's all (or most of it) utter nonsense.
🤣


Check the spelling and grammar, firstly. That will tell you if the poster on Facebook is actually a half wit.




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983


Post Edited (Sat 04 Apr 19:35)
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Sat 4 Apr 19:37

Yeah spelling and grammar are big red flags



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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 4 Apr 19:57

Incredibly idiots have been setting fire to 5G mobile masts because of the absolutely bonkers idea that 5G is causing or exasperating corona virus. Probably the same sort of morons that don't vaccinate their kids because someone on YouTube told them not to.

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Sat 4 Apr 22:50

The real morons are those, maybe like TOWK, who have no evidence. The Piers Morgan of this world. The fanny merchants. The Sweetie Wifies. The doom mongers who have forecast the end of the world and cannot now believe their luck. Where are the bodies? Can anyone count them?

We do not know how many more are dying from this flu than would normally do so. Until we know better, anyone screaming for lockdown or army in the streets is wettingon their parents' grave. They are giving up liberty for security. They are giving up the right to be free men. They deserve what might be coming.

How many more are dying? We still await the figures.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 4 Apr 23:04

The doom mongers? Like those who suppose that it's all a big conspiracy to take away our freedoms?
Do you think that's why in your adopted homeland President Putin has extended the 'non working week' until the end of April or that punishment for breaking quarantine is a prison term potentially up to seven years? Do you think they are getting ready to clamp down on your freedoms Sammer? Maybe you do think that's what they are gearing up for but you have no evedence of that do you? Does that make you one of the real morons as well?

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Sat 4 Apr 23:10

You need to ask better questions because there a bunch in the usual numbers (like road traffic accidents than will be falling to zero). A few weeks ago there were zero or a handful of people dying with coronavirus. It is now reported at over 700 a day, and in reality it will be higher than that. Do you really think that it will have a negligible impact on 1700 a day (no idea if this is the normal base, I'm repeating a number from this board).

Leave it a few days (and before the peak) and this will be 1k a day. Little we can do about that now. Leave it a week or so after that without interventions and it would have exceeded the normal average and it would keep growing.

I'm assuming it's vodka time....
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Sat 4 Apr 23:38

When did the pandemic get changed to 'Caronavirus'
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Sat 4 Apr 23:49

Here's some FACTS for you, sammer...


https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/03/how-will-coronavirus-end/608719/
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 00:29

On average 8000 die annually in an Italian flu season. They now have 15,000 + dead in 3 months.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 07:16

Quote:

sammer, Sat 4 Apr 22:50

The real morons are those, maybe like TOWK, who have no evidence. The Piers Morgan of this world. The fanny merchants. The Sweetie Wifies. The doom mongers who have forecast the end of the world and cannot now believe their luck. Where are the bodies? Can anyone count them?

We do not know how many more are dying from this flu than would normally do so. Until we know better, anyone screaming for lockdown or army in the streets is wettingon their parents' grave. They are giving up liberty for security. They are giving up the right to be free men. They deserve what might be coming.

How many more are dying? We still await the figures.


Sammer, I much prefer your posts on the Football Forum. I don't know if you're deliberately provoking other posters but your contribution above is, at best, unhelpful. There are a lot of frightened people out there, no doubt rendered more so by alarmist reporting by some sections of the media and certainly by the usual suspects on social media.

Some are now completely paranoid, but what's that saying? "Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get me." You're a very intelligent man, so you don't need me to tell you that your logic above is seriously flawed. Comparing the total number of deaths from coronavirus, to the numbers dying from the flu in the same timescale, is of little value. There are so many contradictory variables at play, as Ipswich alludes, that it will be impossible to draw any valid conclusions from this statistic alone. e.g. there's no vaccine for coronavirus, there aren't enough ventilators for those who need them, we don't have lockdowns for the flu etc. etc.

One thing is certain - far more apparently healthy doctors and nurses are dying from exposure to coronavirus, than would from the usual seasonal flu and this is a matter of profound regret. The finger of blame points directly at the leaders of those countries who failed to grasp the seriousness of this virus and are now vainly trying to bolt the stable door. We even have President Trump still agonising about whether this is actually necessary or not, as it will hurt the economy. Ozpar's link offers a good insight into the advice and warning signs that were repeatedly ignored.

The USA is not going to come out of this very well, but Trump will try to shift the blame on anyone and everyone else. I fear for India, too. Eventually, we will come out the other side, older, wiser and suitably chastened. No doubt there will be some right wing types who will console themselves with the thought that this virus has cleared out some of the sick and elderly, whom they regard as a burden on society, no matter that they played their part in rebuilding their nations during the post WW2 years.



Not your average Sunday League player.


Post Edited (Sun 05 Apr 07:18)
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 08:12

Good post GG

The healthy doctors and nurses who are dying is most concerning as most deaths had underlying health problems as I believe the small child did as well

Is it because of the level of exposure they are subject to or is there a more intense strain out there

Who knows time will tell

Stay Safe
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: charlie1  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 09:08

Coronavirus Scotland: Fury as Scots chief medic Catherine Calderwood flouts own Covid-19 lockdown rule visiting 2nd home

Disgusting double standards
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 09:30

Quote:

charlie1, Sun 05 Apr 09:08

Coronavirus Scotland: Fury as Scots chief medic Catherine Calderwood flouts own Covid-19 lockdown rule visiting 2nd home

Disgusting double standards


I couldn’t believe that this morning. Seemingly she was there just to check on the house and make sure it was secure. That wouldn’t need the whole family to be there though. She must be intelligent but she’s obviously devoid of common sense.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 09:31

She’s going to be in trouble.




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 09:59

Really disappointed to read this just now. What chance have we got of beating this if those advising us aren't practicing what they preach

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 10:01

The army are not on the streets, beating people who step out of their homes.
People have access to virtually everything they had before the lockdown.
There are no new restrictions of freedom of speech.
This is a temporary measure that many will have more-or-less forgotten about in a few years (except those who have lost friends or family, obviously).

It is absolutely clear that if no restrictions had been put in place there would have been a sudden increase in deaths that would have overwhelmed the health services.

With hindsight we will be able to estimate how many lives were saved by the restrictions, and this may turn out to be 10000 lives rather than 200000, but we don't know this at the moment.

The Porton Down survey should be publishing results in the coming days. Once we have this we will have a better idea of what is actually happening, and the restriction might be lifted very quickly following that.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 11:19

Those "5G transmitters" on street lamps are more likely light sensors or transmitting to the local authority the status of the lamp (not via 5G).

Calderwood has to go now. What a complete moron. "checking her home" with the entire family and an overnight stay? Could she not have driven up, 5 minute check round the house and then back to her house in Edinburgh? No, take the kids, go for a wee walk and then stay the night. Maybe a wee trip to the chip shop with the whole family too. Grade A, entitled [sweary word].
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 11:32

Difficult one this...swapping her now will likely cause a bit of disruption. She should announce now that she is steeping down when the appropriate point comes, in my opinion.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 11:36

I’d expect that kind of behaviour from Trump.
Can’t quite believe it. Nicola will be fuming.




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 12:05

For once Willie Rennie got it right in describing it as a 'massive error of judgement'. I don't know what happens to some people in positions of power or authority. Common sense seems to desert them in their private lives.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 12:30

It’s ok. She’s apologised



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52171694



Post Edited (Sun 05 Apr 12:32)
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 13:17

Quote:

allparone, Sun 05 Apr 12:30

It’s ok. She’s apologised



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52171694


She’s undermined herself. Can’t see how she can continue to be delivering the advice on tv. ? Maybe work away in the background instead and have someone else deliver the medical messages ?




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 13:24

She has made a mistake, like people often do, and has apologised for it. That'll do for me.

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 13:53

Made a mistake? Understatement of the year. She has stood in front of us all and repeatedly told us to stay indoors to protect the NHS, and then she goes on a jolly up the east neuk? Come on. She took the whole bloody family with her and put an entire community at risk due to her ill-judgement. Are you honestly saying at no point she thought, "C'mon now, Cazza. Let's have a think. Is this a good idea?"? Clearly the answer was "Screw it. Let's do it. In fact, let's bring the husband, kids and dog. May as well go the whole hog. I'll maybe nip in and see auld Jean from the cake shop too. She's a wee bit poorly so she'll appreciate me popping in to see how she's doing.".
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 14:32

The chip shop and now the cake shop too? This one's going to grow legs.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 14:34

Actually I should have looked into it more. I didn't realised she was actually out and about! I assumed that the family just stayed in the car while her or her husband checked the property was secure not strolling over the golf course with her dogs.

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 14:43

Not strictly relevant to the Calderwood issue (because she got out of the car etc) but I'm not sure I understand the 'don't drive' instruction. Or maybe I do. Clarification please?

If folk drive somewhere and stay in their cars how could they get it or infect anybody?

What I read was that if you drive somewhere and have an accident or breakdown then it's a problem of extra contact between people and if you need to go to hospital, it's an extra burden at a time when we need to do all we can to reduce both contact between people and accidents that result in hospital treatment.

Is that it?

If so then I'm 100% behind the 'no drive' instruction. I would feel a right sh*t if I went off for a non-essential drive and ended up needing contact or hospital treatment. Especially if paramedics were called out.

I'm taking this very seriously. One slip by me, and it could be curtains for my wife. Even if she survives and I don't, she's so dependent on me she'll be totally fe**ed.



Post Edited (Sun 05 Apr 14:44)
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 15:14

Driving is ok if it is for an essential purpose. A 20 min trip out in the car for a favourite walk isnt essential. Those individuals can just walk out their front door for their exercise.

Post Edited (Sun 05 Apr 15:15)
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 15:34

You're only supposed to drive to places you HAVE to go. Shops, chemist, dropping food to a vulnerable person. You're not supposed to drive to your second home, get the whole family out the car and then go for a walk through town.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 15:36

Just to add that people don't need to take the whole family to the shops. Tesco and Aldi are now saying one person per trolley (unless it's a parent with child). You don't need your husband/wife to walk around with you. They should keep this rule AFTER the lockdown. Save me clothes shopping with the wife!
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 15:59

"Driving is ok if it is for an essential purpose. A 20 min trip out in the car for a favourite walk isnt essential. Those individuals can just walk out their front door for their exercise."

The restriction is total horseshit though. Preventing people from driving a few miles so that they can have a walk in a nice place just seems completely unnecessary - what do you gain by having someone walking their local streets alone that you don't get when someone drives to a nearby park, hill or coastal trail then has a walk alone? Nothing, as far as I can see.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 16:05

My wife is not capable of going round a supermarket on her own, due to medical problems, had to speak kindly to the security guy yesterday!👍
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 16:13

Quote:

Socks, Sun 5 Apr 15:59

"Driving is ok if it is for an essential purpose. A 20 min trip out in the car for a favourite walk isnt essential. Those individuals can just walk out their front door for their exercise."

The restriction is total horseshit though. Preventing people from driving a few miles so that they can have a walk in a nice place just seems completely unnecessary - what do you gain by having someone walking their local streets alone that you don't get when someone drives to a nearby park, hill or coastal trail then has a walk alone? Nothing, as far as I can see.


It's to stop folk taking the urine and all driving to the meedies for a wee barbeque. Most people will have a park or other area to walk near their home. I'm struggling to think of anywhere in Dunfermline not close to somewhere they could walk.

Just read our CMO was at her second home last week too.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Big T Par  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 16:14

Drove up to Inverness today, essential trip btw, delivering blood to Raigmore 😉 and from the Broxden roundabout to my turn off for the hospital, I never saw one other vehicle driving north. That's over a hundred miles. Absolutely bizarre.

Oh and on another note, the amount of roadkill on that road, is astonishing. Loads of birds, deer (there was one poor beast, just outside of aviemore, that had just been hit I think, absolutely horrific thing to see) badgers and god knows what else. Total carnage😒😔

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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 16:16

Quote:

Socks, Sun 5 Apr 15:59

"Driving is ok if it is for an essential purpose. A 20 min trip out in the car for a favourite walk isnt essential. Those individuals can just walk out their front door for their exercise."

The restriction is total horseshit though. Preventing people from driving a few miles so that they can have a walk in a nice place just seems completely unnecessary - what do you gain by having someone walking their local streets alone that you don't get when someone drives to a nearby park, hill or coastal trail then has a walk alone? Nothing, as far as I can see.


Apparently it's OK to drive some 5 mins away to then walk your dog. I heard it on RS. If you don't have a dog, it would appear you have to leave home on foot for the purpose of exercising....



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 16:47

And it's stupid inconsistencies like that that should be challenged. As far as I can see, there isn't actually any restriction in law about travelling, but restrictions are being arbitrarily imposed by police in some instances. That drone video Derbyshire Police released last week of a few people going for a walk, in a scenic spot and well away from others, was absolutely absurd.

Restrictions of some sort are reasonable given circumstances, but if you want them to be observed they surely have to be logically justifiable. It seems to me that we're going down a road of meek acquiescence while accepting empty slogans that offer nothing in the way of substance. This 'stay home, saves lives' thing is irritating enough but any time I hear anyone utter that 'stay safe' platitude I immediately feel my anger levels rising. It's also all very well banging a pot at 8pm on a Thursday (look at me, I care, I need to show everyone I care with an empty gesture) but when we get a chance to look at things rationally, now many pot bangers will be infavour of income tax and business tax increases to 'protect the NHS' and other services that we've suddenly developed a conscience for? About as many as were in favour of it this time last year would be my expectation.

The current void of logic and substance is an utterly depressing reflection on our society.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 18:35

Quote:

Socks, Sun 5 Apr 16:47

And it's stupid inconsistencies like that that should be challenged. As far as I can see, there isn't actually any restriction in law about travelling, but restrictions are being arbitrarily imposed by police in some instances. That drone video Derbyshire Police released last week of a few people going for a walk, in a scenic spot and well away from others, was absolutely absurd.

Restrictions of some sort are reasonable given circumstances, but if you want them to be observed they surely have to be logically justifiable. It seems to me that we're going down a road of meek acquiescence while accepting empty slogans that offer nothing in the way of substance. This 'stay home, saves lives' thing is irritating enough but any time I hear anyone utter that 'stay safe' platitude I immediately feel my anger levels rising. It's also all very well banging a pot at 8pm on a Thursday (look at me, I care, I need to show everyone I care with an empty gesture) but when we get a chance to look at things rationally, now many pot bangers will be infavour of income tax and business tax increases to 'protect the NHS' and other services that we've suddenly developed a conscience for? About as many as were in favour of it this time last year would be my expectation.

The current void of logic and substance is an utterly depressing reflection on our society.


I'm thinking if everyone was allowed to go and walk/exercise where they pleased, many folk would head to seaside towns, beauty spots and hills, leading to overcrowding. Hasn't this been happening in England, leading to Hancock threatening to restrict us even further?....



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 18:50

My neighbours were out clapping on Thursday. She currently has her sister and nephew round for a visit and the husband has been at work every day since the lockdown. He isn't a key worker in the slightest. Hypocrites.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 18:55

Kyle Walker faces disciplinary action from Manchester City after reportedly breaking lockdown rules by hosting a party involving two sex workers.

But he has apologised and urged us to stay safe
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 19:06

I wonder if everybody stayed at least two metres apart...
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 19:08

Quote:

wee eck, Sun 5 Apr 19:06

I wonder if everybody stayed at least two metres apart...


If he was using them as part of a marking drill, there is every chance!
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 19:08

I can see the sense in tight restrictions on driving. Statistically a certain number of accidents and breakdowns are likely to occur. They would use up resources that are needed for more important things. Just think, how many vehicles are there in UK? About 38 million. If each of them does just one short unecessary trip a week, there's probably gonna be some folk end up in A&E or need paramedics. That's besides the issue of unecessary contact between folk from diferent areas.

So to answer your question, Socks -
(Sun 5 Apr 15:59)

<<< What do you gain by having someone walking their local streets alone that you don't get when someone drives to a nearby park, hill or coastal trail then has a walk alone? Nothing, as far as I can see. >>>

One answer is fewer demands on A&E and hospitals, fewer breakdown call-outs and fewer folk carrying the virus to areas where others can get it and carry it to wherever they've driven from.

That's how it looks to me.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 19:16

ipswichpar lol :)
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 19:29

Jake you'd be amazed at the number of people who have been designated as key workers. There are three different categories of key workers. My company was given such a designation as we potentially make parts that can be used in the manufacture of ventilators. The kicker being that firms that supply us are now able to be classed as key employers and they are even further removed from the end product. Ultimately if your neighbours employer isn't closing and isn't giving him the option of working from home then what is he to do?

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 20:44

My neighbour IS the boss. He's the owner of the company. The company does nothing "key" and what they do can very easily be done from home.

My other neighbour is the same. Office job in a particular field that won't be doing much business right now, and business easily done from home.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 21:02

I'm not really accepting that reducing the risk of breakdowns an accidents is valid justification for stopping folk going a short distance. The risk is pretty small and if you were going to do things to minimise hospital use, you'd surely not allow recreational cycling, but that seems OK.

Strange that folk like Jake can presume to know so well the personal circumstances of other people.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 21:14

That's actually a great point about the recreational cycling.

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 21:23

Not sure how many people would be recreational cycling vs driving. The point above about people taking the pihs is spot on too.

I see Boris is now in hospital. Hope he's ok.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 21:29

Boris is really doubling down on pretending to be ill now isn’t he 🙄😂


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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Par  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 22:14

Did Boris not self isolate after his side unexpectedly won the Brexit referendum also.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 22:45

A tiger at New York City’s Bronx Zoo has tested positive for the coronavirus, in the first known case of Covid-19 in an animal in the US, a zoo spokesman told Reuters on Sunday.

Admittedly social distancing from a tiger is a gimme.



Post Edited (Sun 05 Apr 22:46)
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Jjonjord  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 22:55

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sun 5 Apr 14:34

Actually I should have looked into it more. I didn't realised she was actually out and about! I assumed that the family just stayed in the car while her or her husband checked the property was secure not strolling over the golf course with her dogs.


According to Sky News, she has now resigned...
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 23:10

Sorry if I've upset you, socks. Just presenting the facts. As an NHS family I find it quite ridiculous that there's people patting me on the back for fighting the risks they themselves are creating by ignoring the advice. Neither neighbour is being forced into working and they definitely weren't forced into inviting family round for a BBQ in the garden.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 23:24

Aren't you working from home Jake?

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 23:45

I am, wife isn't.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Sun 5 Apr 23:55

Ref: Socks
Sun 5 Apr 21:02

<<< I'm not really accepting that reducing the risk of breakdowns an accidents is valid justification for stopping folk going a short distance. The risk is pretty small and if you were going to do things to minimise hospital use, you'd surely not allow recreational cycling, but that seems OK. >>>

Trouble is, if you allow 'short distances', how can that be regulated? It'd only take one infected person to decide 25 miles is a short distance and they can carry the virus from one big urban centre to another. (And there wouldn't be just one.) I think you have to factor in that there's a certain percentage of folk who don't give a stuff for anyone else.

When I was out for a walk a few days ago, I found it impossible to always be two metres from other folk. I'd say 95% of folk were careful but there were a few who didn't even try to keep their distance. And of course in shops the risk is higher.

I don't think it'd help to have millions more folk on the roads going short distances. Maybe I'm lucky. I just want my wife and myself and others to be safe. I've got no chip on the shoulder about my freedom being infringed. There's an indiscriminate, faceless murderer on the loose who I could meet anywhere anytime I'm out, so I'm for erring on the side of being over-cautious. If me and my wife survive, it'll have been worth it.

I believe we are safest in our own house and garden so that's where we're stopping, except for a short walk to the nearby playing fields once in a while.



Post Edited (Mon 06 Apr 00:07)
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: KirklistonPar  
Date:   Mon 6 Apr 06:08

Boris has been taken to hospital for tests as still showing symptoms of covid19
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Mon 6 Apr 11:54

I don't think potential to carry virus from one are to another is especially relevant given that it's already appeared in all parts of the country already. It also seems illogical to say that when walking close to home it was difficult to stay far enough away from people, but it's a bad idea for people to go to a scenic area where there are fewer people.

I went out on my bike last Tuesday. I'm not able to do anything too strenuous, but I managed 16 miles round some quiet roads, during which time I came into contact with precisely nobody. Where's the risk in that? I know someone who cycled 70 miles yesterday, also alone. That's a good bit from home but, again, what possible issue does it cause?

Jake, you haven't upset me at all. I just found your comment quite judgemental because I don't think any of us should claim to know someone else's personal circumstances in full.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Mon 6 Apr 12:12

I think we are simply looking at this from two different directions - it's "tell me why I shouldn't go" vs "tell me why you need to go"? Neither side will be able to definitely prove to the other side why their position is correct. Particularly in a single case (i.e. my mate went for a 70 mile bike ride yesterday, so no-one and got home safe).

I'm in the latter camp, what value does it serve for a few weeks not to drive 20/30 miles to go and walk around versus just walking outside your front door. The only answer I'm hearing is "Because I want to". This seems rather selfish, in my opinion given what would happen in the rare event something goes wrong. If this feels normal, you're not doing it right in my view. My number one priority in all this is to protect my family but my number two priority (and it's not far behind) is to protect everyone else in society. Imagine thinking you gave this to someone and they died - I'd rather not be thinking about that for the rest of my days.

The issue about the 70 miles is pretty obvious to me. Is that person a carrier of the virus? Do they know for sure? What would happen if they had an accident or a bike malfunction at mile 35? How would they get home? How many people would stop and help them? Would one of those people live with someone who worked in a care home?

All answers that have very low probability, and all answers that none of us know the answers to.

Unfortunately some people are being too short-termist and selfish IMO. If everyone stayed in for a short period of time this would be massively reduced. While we've still got people who think that driving off to the seaside for a walk or riding 70 miles is OK it'll extend this pain (societal and economic) for everyone in my view.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Mon 6 Apr 12:21

I think you sun it up pretty well Ipswich. It's a percentage game really. Individually the chances of any of us actually having the virus are low. Even then the chances of an infected person going out but still maintaining social distancing protocols mean the chances of transmission are very small. Obviously though if enough individuals go out and about the chances increase to the point where it becomes almost a certainty the virus will be spread further.

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Mon 6 Apr 12:52

OK, so the argument is that it's about balancing risk, yes? If so, I agree with that. So consider the risks involved in something like a bike ride that some folk might frown upon as opposed to going shopping for food, which is OK.

On my 16-mile ride last week I carried a spare tube and tools to fix a puncture should it be necessary. Having taken that precaution, the only circumstance in which I'd come into contact with anyone is if I took unwell (could happen just as likely at home) or if I got hit and needed medical treatment. The probability of being hospitalised to to an accident is low, especially so at the moment and even moreso because of the roads I'd be cycling on. I'd struggle to put a probability to it but I'm fairly sure it would be much less than 1 in a thousand. So say there's a 0.1% greater chance that I'd come into contact with someone than if I hadn't gone out at all.

If I go to Asda for food, the chances of coming into contact with others is obiously much higher. It's pretty much guaranteed that I'm going to touch packaging that other people have already touched and I'll certainly be around other people. 100% guaranteed.

So comparing the two, the additional risk of contact by going out on the bike is absolutely negligable compared to the unavoidable risk of going shopping and therefore should not be restricted.

On a related point, can I ask, do you have any concern for mental health at the moment?
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Mon 6 Apr 13:14

It's not just about managing risk - we've also been instructed to act a certain way for a relatively short period of time. I'd like to think in the current circumstances I would do as instructed, as would others. It's disappointing when people think that the instructions don't apply to them as they somehow know better.

I don't think the shopping parallel is entirely helpful - folks need to eat, folks don't need to venture out far from home. Thin end of the wedge if 5% do it because the next 15% will see that the 5% are getting away with it and then start doing it.

On the mental health point, absolutely. Which is one of the main reasons I want this period to be a short as possible. If it extends it's going get even more difficult for millions of people.

In my opinion, there's enough joy in a local walk vs one in the Peak District or bike ride locally rather than one 70 miles away. It really doesn't need one far from home to provide all the benefits that they do.

It's good to hear that you and your mate (and Big T Par on his essential trip up north) aren't seeing anyone. That tells me that the vast majority of the population are following what are, if we are honest, very simple instructions.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 6 Apr 13:16

I'm failing to see the argument here. Is a cycle ride considered a risk? The issues I've seen are more about people travelling to places to congregate (beaches, parks, town centres) rather than someone going on a simple ride from their home around the local area. Yes, they could take a fall or get a flat but someone could fall walking over to Tesco or their car could break down going to the chemist.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Mon 6 Apr 13:27

Going for a bike ride around the local area seems to be something that should be encouraged for those who want to do it subject to meeting the Social Distancing gudance, in my opinion.

It's the distance from home in this specific example I have an issue with.

My view would be.....would I be comfortable making my way home under my own steam in the event something went wrong? So a few laps around a local area seem to be much more sensible than a longer point to point ride.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Mon 6 Apr 13:29

Going to the shops for food and essentials is necessary. If you can restrict your bike ride to less than an hour then arguably you are still following the rules.

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 6 Apr 13:39

Has it been said it's an hour? My brother in law has been going out on 2 hour walks every day.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Mon 6 Apr 14:07

By legislation no time limit has been set but government cabinet ministers have suggested that a one hour walk or thirty minute run or cycle would be acceptable.

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Mon 6 Apr 14:21

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-china/china-sees-rise-in-asymptomatic-coronavirus-cases-to-tighten-controls-at-land-borders-idUKKBN21O01I

Would appear China maybe isn't out of the woods yet. Worrying.

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Mon 6 Apr 14:39

It's not just about managing risk - we've also been instructed to act a certain way for a relatively short period of time. I'd like to think in the current circumstances I would do as instructed, as would others. It's disappointing when people think that the instructions don't apply to them as they somehow know better.

Going for a walk or bike ride of any duration is within the current rules, so does not violate what we've been instructed to do

I don't think the shopping parallel is entirely helpful - folks need to eat, folks don't need to venture out far from home. Thin end of the wedge if 5% do it because the next 15% will see that the 5% are getting away with it and then start doing it.

It wasn't really a parallel, despite my use of 'as opposed to'. My point is that what you deem non-essential increases the risk, but the increase above the baseline, i.e. what we need to do to eat, is absolutely tiny.

On the mental health point, absolutely. Which is one of the main reasons I want this period to be a short as possible. If it extends it's going get even more difficult for millions of people.

It's already difficult though. Mental ill health is going to be a huge issue in this which means it is not a simple issue.

In my opinion, there's enough joy in a local walk vs one in the Peak District or bike ride locally rather than one 70 miles away. It really doesn't need one far from home to provide all the benefits that they do.

Nobody has mentioned being 70 miles away - the exaggeration, sadly, detracts from your argument. And sorry, but you are in no position to judge the benefits any given form of exercise will have to any person other than yourself. Do you not think you're maybe seeing everyone's situation as if it's the similar to your own? I don't know how important exercise is to you, but for many people it's something they not only enjoy, they actually need it to function. As an example, I used to run semi-competitively, training 6 days a week. When injury took that away from me, it was absolutely devastating to the point where I was occasionally having suicidal thoughts. Since then I have found other forms of exercise that I'm able to do that sustain me, though none are anywhere near as good as running. Now I have to try to make do with improvised weight exercises using a car spare wheel, a hobble round the park or even - whisper it - going out on the bike. To return to talking generally rather than about me, you can't seriously say to someone who's become used to a high volume of hard exercise that they should just content themselves with a 10-minutes stroll round the block. You don't know what they actually need.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Mon 6 Apr 15:33

I put 70 instead of 35. It was no exaggeration simply a typo. A point to point ride in a straight line would have been 35. Either way it does not detract from my points one iota.. in the event something went wrong it is highly unlikely in either scenario that the individual could make their own way back and would be reliant on others.

At no point have I said people should do without the form or intensity of exercise, all I am saying is that, for a wee while, they should be staying much closer to home. For a wee while.

Your points continue to be about the sacrifices the individual is making by not doing exactly what they want to. I prefer to think that those frontline workers dealing with people who could have avoided infection or needing a hand when it was easily avoidable as the ones potentially making the biggest sacrifices. Those sacrifices could last considerably longer than a wee while....

So, rather than accusing me of judging everyone's need by my own standards, why not have a wee think if you own worldview is too focussed on an individual's wants rather than protecting others who are contributing an awful lot to doing whatever they can to keep some people alive.

There's a reason you and your mate and Big T didn't see people. And it wasn't chance.

Post Edited (Mon 06 Apr 15:34)
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Mon 6 Apr 17:18

Just to bring a bit of light relief to this thread - Italy recently adopted really strict lockdown conditions as many folk were flaunting the guidelines in a similar way to the UK last Saturday. You can only leave your home to go to a pharmacy for medicine or to a shop/supermarket to buy essentials. Failure to adhere will result in an on the spot fine.

Well this guy in Turin went to his local supermarket and came out with a 5l demijohn of wine. A couple of police officers were waiting outside and hit him with a €500 fine. Ooer, that works out at €100 per litre.....☹

If only he'd thought to buy a loaf of bread ,or a bit of cheese to go with his wine....



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: dave67  
Date:   Mon 6 Apr 17:55

Darned ruffians
https://www.dunfermlinepress.com/news/18361919.police-break-duloch-street-party-issue-social-distancing-warning
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Mon 6 Apr 18:00

I'd be bankrupt!
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 6 Apr 18:12

The ones over at Plover Crescent were the ones I was referring to on Saturday. Worth potentially infecting your neighbours for the sake of a few cans in the street?
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Mon 6 Apr 18:21

Ipswichpar, the points you're making just seem to be full of assumptions which are not all correct. Nobody said it was an out-and-back ride - you've just assumed that. Equally, I didn't say I saw nobody on my shorter bike trip. What I said was that I came into contact with nobody. There was certainly the odd car and maybe 10 people on bikes on the other side of the road at various times. I wouldn't count people 5-6 metres away as being in contact, given we're talking about something where the recommended minimum separation is less than half of that. Now you're assuming that someone who was a reasonable distance from home couldn't have got home without help - unless the person had been seriously injured, I'm quite certain they would have made it back, walking for many hours if necessary. Had it been me last week, I would also have walked the worst-case 6-7 miles home.

Given that background, which seems to address your complaint, do you still have a problem with it?

Your points continue to be about the sacrifices the individual is making by not doing exactly what they want to. I prefer to think that those frontline workers dealing with people who could have avoided infection or needing a hand when it was easily avoidable as the ones potentially making the biggest sacrifices. Those sacrifices could last considerably longer than a wee while....

So, rather than accusing me of judging everyone's need by my own standards, why not have a wee think if you own worldview is too focussed on an individual's wants rather than protecting others who are contributing an awful lot to doing whatever they can to keep some people alive.


My points are not at all about sacrifices we have to make in day to day life. My fundamental point is that I don't think it's reasonable to stop people from doing things that have zero risk or have risk that is negligable compared to unavoidable risk.

My worldview is not entirely different from your own, but mine is most certainly coloured by mental health issues and I make no apology for that. My issues, those in my family, and those of many others I don't know but whose problems I have discussed with them. Your point about not wanting to be party to someone's death, even unknowingly, is valid, but is it not equally valid to care about mental health and the devastating impact this situation might have on that? If restrictions are imposed that lead to lives being lost by suicide, are you any more comfortable with that than lives being lost due to viral infection? And if restrictions could be nuanced to allow people to go places that helped with mental health issues while adding minimal risk of infection, wouldn't that be a good thing?

This is the root of my annoyance on this and it's the one big aspect that I haven't seen adequately discussed. Statutory mental health provision in the NHS is absolutely disgraceful and I have a burning anger about that.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Mon 6 Apr 18:46

On a lighter note.Strangely Superman just ran past our house.If I knew how to put a photo up I would.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Mon 6 Apr 19:12

Cabin fever setting in Donj?

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Mon 6 Apr 19:30

It is but I'll give the guy a thumbs up for making us laugh.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Mon 6 Apr 20:20

PM in intensive care now :(
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: DulochConvert  
Date:   Mon 6 Apr 20:24

Donj, Spider-Man has been seen running past mine a few times this week.

Not the best news on the PM, as you presume he has been get best possible treatment up to now.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: shrek par  
Date:   Mon 6 Apr 20:41

Spiderman was running with a t-rex today went down the hill past the house.

Admin.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Stoo  
Date:   Mon 6 Apr 22:41

I've been cycling between 50 and 80 miles 3 or 4 times a week. Cycling and mountain bike are the only things I do for exercise (pre-virus), ive cut the serious mountain biking down to zero and I go out to get miles from my front door using as many B roads as possible because...thats the best way to do it regardless of viruses.

I live more rurally than Dunfermline town centre, which I avoid, but I see a few people out, other cyclists and walkers who I pass at around 10 to 25 mph with the prerequisite spacing if not a lot more.

If I have a catastrophic mechanical malfunction i'm lucky enough to have someone at home who could come and get me, should that be required. I am yet to have that happen in my 32 years on this earth. *touch wood*

Ive never had a serious road biking accident, they are obviously possible but i've definitely more chance of chopping my finger off with a kitchen knife *again touch wood*


Personally, I am morally satisfied with this.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Mon 6 Apr 22:48

Playing a Blinder
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Mon 6 Apr 23:19

Stoo if I was the police and stopped you then go home?
Your obviously those cycle people that are not confirming with the law.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Stoo  
Date:   Mon 6 Apr 23:27

Read that a few times EEP but couldn't work it out im afraid.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Mon 6 Apr 23:32

You absolute monster Stoo...

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Tue 7 Apr 02:20

I once had a peaceful Sunday morning completely ruined at a T junction when I correctly followed the green traffic light signal to turn right.

As I made my way towards the new road, out of my left eye I spotted a group of about 30 cyclists coming at full-tilt through a red light towards me.

Had I not slammed on my brakes hard, I would have taken out many of them, most probably killing some. It was that close and that serious. I was totally shaken up by the experience.

Meanwhile, the cyclists carried on their merry way, doubtless ignoring any further red lights that they met.

There seems to be an arrogance about cyclists that makes them believe that the rules don't apply to them.

I am therefore not surprised by the comments above.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Thaipar  
Date:   Tue 7 Apr 03:06

It's the arrogance I am having a problem with. To me it doesn't matter if cycling or hill walking. It is plain and simply selfish to adopt the attitude I won't need help from emergency services so I will continue to do as previous.
35 miles away from home using B roads is possibly going to take emergency services away for a considerable amount of time unnecessarily, 1st responder, ambulance and police would all potentially be required.

Please don't book me Admin, it will ruin my life.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh  
Date:   Tue 7 Apr 07:58

For all who are worried about unnecessary use of the emergency services, here are some helpful tips:

Many home accidents occur in the bathroom, so I advise not going there too often. Cut showers down to once a week and that will reduce the risk of slips.

Stop eating meat to reduce the risk of food poisoning.

Don"t use any cutting equipment in gardens.

Don't smoke.

Don't drink alcohol. Ever.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 7 Apr 08:27

When I was a boy my Dad read that most accidents happen within 10 miles of the home
So we moved 15 miles away but took the door number with us so we did not have to change our address :)
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh  
Date:   Tue 7 Apr 08:37

Old, but still good!
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Thaipar  
Date:   Tue 7 Apr 08:46

Quote:

aaaaaaaaaargh, Tue 7 Apr 07:58

For all who are worried about unnecessary use of the emergency services, here are some helpful tips:

Many home accidents occur in the bathroom, so I advise not going there too often. Cut showers down to once a week and that will reduce the risk of slips.

Stop eating meat to reduce the risk of food poisoning.

Don"t use any cutting equipment in gardens.

Don't smoke.

Don't drink alcohol. Ever.


And there you said it. Home accidents not selfish unnecessary jaunts on a bike or trekking up mountains etc.
Well said you.

Please don't book me Admin, it will ruin my life.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Stoo  
Date:   Tue 7 Apr 08:48

This could easily descend into an argument about cyclists vs other road users. I wasn't any of those cyclists that ran the red light OzPar. Ive been a bicycle guide by trade for the past year, city tours, highland tours and mountain bike tours. (That of course has died a death, potentially forever) I'm certainly au fait with the rules of the road and hyper aware of junctions, round abouts, pedestrian crossings, dogs, children and of course fast moving cars and lorries. More so than your average driver, you have to be.

This doesn't mean I will never be involved in an accident, I know that, all road users are at risk.

On the distance thing, Thaipar. Where I live and the loops I partake in, I am actually closer to emergency services in general while on the bike. If the argument is against cycling all together, then fine thats an opinion you are entitled to, I can see your point. If the argument is about distance from ER departments, and not cycling itself, then people living certain distances from hospitals shouldn't be allowed to cycle even 1 metre from home.

No animosity here btw, wont be getting embroiled and as I say I understand people who believe that cycling is an unnecessary risk. I just dont agree.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Jjonjord  
Date:   Tue 7 Apr 09:18

Quote:

aaaaaaaaaargh, Tue 7 Apr 07:58

For all who are worried about unnecessary use of the emergency services, here are some helpful tips:

Many home accidents occur in the bathroom, so I advise not going there too often. Cut showers down to once a week and that will reduce the risk of slips.

Stop eating meat to reduce the risk of food poisoning.

Don"t use any cutting equipment in gardens.

Don't smoke.

Don't drink alcohol. Ever.


Surely a cyclist would still eat and use their bathroom, no?

Seems like you are describing mainly essential risks and hazards, rather than additional risk.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Tue 7 Apr 10:05

If distance cycling is ok why is golfing not? I can walk to the course, play on my own, rakes are removed and holes are upturned so no need to touch anything other than my own ball. In fact if I was playing with someone else staying 2m apart is easy (on the fairway being within 50m is difficult for me anyway). Clubhouse and lockers were shuttered but still fully closed now.

Even less chance of injury than cycling but the guidance is don’t do it so it’s out


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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Tue 7 Apr 10:24

Folk would have to go to their work to keep golf courses open.

The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel the warmth.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Tue 7 Apr 10:26

Quote:

Wotsit, Tue 07 Apr 10:24

Folk would have to go to their work to keep golf courses open.


The course is being maintained by greenskeepers already


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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Tue 7 Apr 11:08

I'm sure there are courses in Edinburgh open. Maybe not all and I think you might have to go round on your own.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Stoo  
Date:   Tue 7 Apr 11:41

I too see less problem, in personal safety terms, with golf than cycling as a sport, generally speaking.

The problem, I imagine, is that golf can be done at limited and specific places where people would, undoubtedly, flock to.

Could stick a few holes in a friendly farmers field and go for it.



Post Edited (Tue 07 Apr 11:43)
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Tue 7 Apr 12:22

The "club" side of the course potentially open to abuse of the current restrictions and we all know that whilst you can walk to play most cant so would then encourage more and more journeys to be made.

Ive run daily from the house and its pretty boring going around same streets rather than jumping in car through to Benarty hill etc but thankful fit and well enough to be able to work and run daily.

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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh  
Date:   Tue 7 Apr 12:47

Indeed - I am talking about additional risks, but also unnecessary risks.

Having a shower every day or every two days is unnecessary, but I reckon people who were doing this a month ago will still be doing it today.

Drinking alcohol is unnecessary, but I reckon people who were doing this a month ago will still be doing it today.

Cycling 3 or 4 times a week is unnecessary, but I reckon people were doing this a month ago will still be doing it today.

All of these things can be done while maintaining social distancing, so I don't see a huge problem. I wouldn't be against people being allowed to play golf since it combines walking and social distancing quite effectively.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Tue 7 Apr 13:05

I imagine the probability of negative mental health impacts from not cycling (for those doing so regularly) are higher than the likelihood of anything that happens as a consequence of those who do cycle


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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Tue 7 Apr 13:48

For Socks

The way you're coming across to me Socks is that you want special dispensation to do what you like because you believe you're a responsible guy who will keep away from everyone when you go out. So why should you be restricted?

The issue is, how many others are to be allowed total freedom? You on your bicycle is not a big issue but millions of people unrestricted on bicycles would be. So for now it has to be one size fits all.

Some of your justifications are no justification at all. For example, I posted that someone travelling 25 miles could carry the virus from one urban area to another. You countered by posting it's already in nearly every area.

Sense? I don't think so.

It's like this: if it's already there, is it going to help if a whole lot more of it comes from elsewhere?

You really think that once an area has one, or even many cases of Covid, then we may as well have complete freedom of movement?



Post Edited (Tue 07 Apr 14:00)
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Tue 7 Apr 14:24

Ref: P
Tue 7 Apr 13:05

<<< I imagine the probability of negative mental health impacts from not cycling (for those doing so regularly) are higher than the likelihood of anything that happens as a consequence of those who do cycle >>>

For a cyclist maybe. Though it depends on what sort o' bike! (see link below)

And how many cyclists are you gonna allow? Unlimited numbers?

Doesn't it strike you that the best way for a virus to be transmitted during a pandemic is to have as many folk as possible all getting out and doing their own thing.

Charlie and his brother on a bike

https://youtu.be/hYP2Q_1knvo?t=65



Post Edited (Tue 07 Apr 14:33)
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 7 Apr 14:35

No new deaths in China and none at all in North Korea Hmmmmmm
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Tue 7 Apr 14:38



World's longest bike ?



Post Edited (Tue 07 Apr 14:43)
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: wetherby  
Date:   Tue 7 Apr 15:41

I haven't seen an explanation of why our death rate as a percentage of confirmed cases seems to be about 10% compared to other countries 1-3%

Anyone see any discussion of that?
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 7 Apr 15:46

Because other countries are testing whereas we aren't.

I suspect I had it back in January but don't have a clue if I did as I wasn't tested then and haven't been tested since.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 7 Apr 16:35

Quote:

wetherby, Tue 7 Apr 15:41

I haven't seen an explanation of why our death rate as a percentage of confirmed cases seems to be about 10% compared to other countries 1-3%

Anyone see any discussion of that?


There's a few different reasons:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8159841/What-REAL-death-rate-coronavirus.html

https://www.vox.com/world/2020/3/27/21196246/coronavirus-germany-death-rate-covid-19-cases-italy-europe

Between the two of those they seem to cover most of the reasons for differing figures as much as anyone seems to know at the moment.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Tue 7 Apr 16:37

Quote:

wetherby, Tue 7 Apr 15:41

I haven't seen an explanation of why our death rate as a percentage of confirmed cases seems to be about 10% compared to other countries 1-3%

Anyone see any discussion of that?


If we were only testing people who were coming in to hospital already seriously ill, it's little wonder the %fatality is so high. If everyone who had even very mild/no symptoms was tested it might even be below 1%.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Tue 7 Apr 21:40

.

Post Edited (Tue 07 Apr 21:44)
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Tue 7 Apr 21:41

Quote:

BigJPar, Tue 7 Apr 21:40

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/07/uk-will-be-europes-worst-hit-by-coronavirus-study-predicts

Hope this is way off the mark.

Post Edited (Tue 07 Apr 21:51)
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh  
Date:   Tue 7 Apr 22:47

It is way off the mark. Don't worry.

The title line might be right. We could be the worst hit in Europe and that could be down to the delayed reaction by government, but the differences with Italy and Spain will be minimal.

I'm very disappointed by the junk that people are spewing out at the moment. They would do well to accept that there are still a lot of things about this virus that we don't know, and everything they are producing is guesswork built on poor data.

As GG Riva says, the case fatality rate might be 1%, or it could be much lower. If it is as low as 0.1% then it will be impossible to reach even 40,000 deaths by May and this isn't even considered as a possibility by the people who made the predictions.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Tue 7 Apr 23:43

The numbers of beds needed seem way off the mark for the UK.

And although the government have left it too late in the day to provide more beds, I think they do deserve credit for the efforts they are now putting in.

I do still think that we will see more than our fair share simply due to the level of healthcare provision vs other developed nations.

It certainly seems to paint a very pessimistic view as evidence by it only being a few days old and already suggesting that we would be recording more than 1200 deaths per day.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 08:55

very noble gesture indeed

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52209690




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 10:05

[Post Deleted] - Reported as abusive.
Language like that will not be tolerated on this site.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 11:47

Not seeing many other supposed philanthropist billionaires giving away more than a quarter of their wealth.

Perhaps some of our MPs who have profited from this crisis could donate a few quid?
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 12:40

looks like 134 additional deaths in scotland have been logged as Covid as a contributing factor to death upto sunday in addition to the 220 deaths we were already being told about to that period.

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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 19:43

Some light relief .... no mine

Tae a virus 

Twa months ago, we didna ken,  
yer name or ocht aboot ye
But lots of things have changed since then,
I really must salute ye

Yer spreading rate is quite intense,
yer feeding like a gannet
Disruption caused, is so immense,
ye’ve shaken oor wee planet.

Corona used tae be a beer,
they garnished it wae limes
But noo it’s filled us aw wae fear
These days, are scary times.

Nae shakin hawns, or peckin lips,
it’s whit they aw advise
But scrub them weel, richt tae the tips,
that’s how we’ll aw survive

Just stay inside , the hoose, ye bide
Nae sneakin oot for strolls
Just check the lavvy every hoor
And stock-up oan loo rolls

Canary isles, no for a while
Nae need for suntan cream
And aw because o this wee bug
We ken tae be..19

The boredom surely will set in,
But have a read, or doodles
Or plan yer menu for the month
Wi 95 pot noodles.

When these run oot, just look aboot
A change, it would be nice
We’ve beans and pasta By the ton
and twenty stane o rice.

So dinny think yell wipe us oot
Aye true, a few have died
Bubonic, bird flu, and Tb
They came, they left, they tried

Ye might be gallus noo ma freen
As ye jump fae cup tae cup
But when we get oor vaccine made
Yer number will be up.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Thu 9 Apr 13:28

Maybe a bit of hope testing will ramp up.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/us-firm-says-on-track-give-uk-100000-coronavirus-tests-day-thermo-fisher-scientific

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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 9 Apr 19:03

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=05-jbrHRmrs

Its 45 mins so a bit of a watch but from what I can see all of the panelists seem to be well respected in their fields.

Make some very interesting points.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Thu 9 Apr 19:49

Lengthy article ( dont think it has been posted previously)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-britain-path-speci-idUSKBN21P1VF?fbclid=IwAR3nUeP6ipmLZvKDy7iQgyjAvrnw_UQcFzLIUry2n5sgNnv63lRumKlqQGU
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 9 Apr 19:51

It's in the BoJo thread but applicable too here 😀
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: dave67  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 12:49

Mass graves in New York



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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Thaipar  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 13:59

Is anyone aware of how many negative pressure rooms are available in the NHS system in England. Looking at the new nightingale hospital it looks as if its all open. All this will do is spread the virus.
Anybody any idea about hospital numbers?

Please don't book me Admin, it will ruin my life.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 19:41

Meanwhile Joe Cardle out delivering pizzas to NHS staff, love it!!👍😎
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 19:48

Well done that man!
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: wetherby  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 19:54

So today the U.K. recorded more deaths in a day than Italy did at any stage in the progress of this pandemic.

Think back just three or four weeks and the news headlines were full of the chaos and mayhem that was unfolding in Italy and yet now it is here I get the impression that the reporting is much more restrained. Boris's stint in ICU even served to turn attention on to him rather than the growing number of deaths in the U.K. The Gov is getting a very easy ride for their failures to prepare for this in January and February and for taking the NHS to its knees over the last 10 years.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 20:13

I think it is right to leave those discussions for another time. Need to get this sorted first, although of course there should be scrutiny on immediate and recent planning.

What is going to be interesting is what they do to get out of lockdown.....because it is going to be pretty bloody obvious that they should have been doing that on the way into this crisis....if they were not so poorly prepared.

Johnson, of course, will blame the other Tories. I hope Starmer pulls no punches and is a lot more effective than Corbyn.

Post Edited (Fri 10 Apr 20:14)
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 20:19

https://twitter.com/JojoCardle/status/1248677884790800390?s=09
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 20:32

King Kenny now been struck down with it!
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 20:38

Good post wetherby we are probably the worst prepared Country in Europe and the slowest to react as previous articles have pointed out... Brexit was the ultimate goal up until 31st Jan.... Then we turned our attention to covid-19 Government scientists warned of 500,000 deaths in the UK so Dominic put us on low risk.. Then we opted for the herd community until a more clever man pointed out that if we all get it how will the NHS cope ?... So we remained on low risk ...Dominic instructing Boris to tell every one that he is still shaking hands and what a fantastic job we are doing... In the meantime Dominic misses 6 EU head of state conference calls to order respirators, testing kits and eep kits but we were out of the EU by then....get Brexit done ....We are Great Britain we don't need Johnny Foreigner to tell us what to do .....So planes are descending at regular intervals into Heathrow from guess where ? correct China and every other infected Country but we tested them didn't we ? ....er well no because we did not have testing kits ....remember the missing 6 conference calls .... Now it all goes tits up Italy are reporting a rising death count we upgrade to medium risk and Dominic tells Boris to re-assure us we are well ahead of the game and doing a fantastic job as we remain on medium risk ...Oh Jings What will we do now Boris asks Dominic ....Wait and see what Italy does says Dominic and we will copy them and upgrade from medium risk to medium to high risk .....to be continued
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 21:14

No matter how bad it gets here and how poorly the UK Government has played it, they will be made to look good by the shambles The Donald is presiding over in the USA. With each passing day, he mumbles something ever less convincing. Today he said he believes America has reached the top of the hill and may even have started coming down the other side..... Wishful thinking.

I wish I'd posted a video on the BBC website a few days ago, where it had collated a number of delusional statements he's made in the last month or so and paired them up with him doing a U turn on all of them. Johnson is almost competent in comparison.



Not your average Sunday League player.


Post Edited (Sat 11 Apr 10:48)
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 22:02

Trump has a rival in the arrogant idiot stakes....

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-belarus-president-refuses-to-cancel-anything-and-says-vodka-and-saunas-will-ward-off-coronavirus-11965396&ved=2ahUKEwj9jsm64N7oAhVuQUEAHSXDB0MQFjAAegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw3ttI13cHkQYSG_TuTa6meS&cshid=1586552463930



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 22:04

Trump is a bellend.... you just have to look at the mass graves in the bronx and he doesn’t care...
Up here I think give it a month or 2 we will be ok but down south in mass population it will hit them hard.
Sweden is still doing well using the herd immunity programme?
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 22:59

I think we’ve all been keeping a weather eye on Sweden but it may be too early to decide how effective their policy has been. What does seem to have emerged is that countries who followed the WHO advice to test and separate the healthy from the infected have got on top of the problem.

In line with a point raised by Buspasspar; the UK had one outstanding advantage at the start of this virus, an advantage which helped save the nation from the attentions of Napoleon and Hitler: it is an island. A natural water barrier gives a great advantage I would have thought, so long as you stop flights or can at least test those coming in. Yet some spokesman today claimed this was not the case and the virus would have found its way in anyhow. Possibly true, but we are talking about degree here. Was he being encouraged to take some heat off on a day when the death toll reached a peak?
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 23:17

Napoleon and Hitler couldn't sneak a few soldiers in then breed them into millions on the fly.

Sweden has a much bigger ratio of ICU beds to population than the UK.

Testing and separation was definitely the approach to use, but we didn't do that in time so we have to try something else.

Not voting Tory was also an option that would have worked but, again, that horse has bolted.

We can still value key workers more and get a bit of perspective on what's important to keep society - which we have proved does exist - functioning though, which is a huge opportunity.

The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel the warmth.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 00:22

In this rather macabre contest France now have he highest 24 hour death toll in Europe. I suspect the Netherlands will have similar rate if taken as a percentage of the population.

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 09:42

Isn't it the case that the figures for England only include deaths in hospitals? If so, there's going to be a sharp increase when 'deaths in the community' are included.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 09:54

The French total includes all care home deaths that had not been recorded over the previous few days
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 09:57

I believe so wee eck. I'm not sure there's a plan to include them. In the same way that the German reporting is different. Very difficult to make decision or even robust comparisons.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 10:00

Is there anything more vomit inducing than the "Battler Boris" narrative being pushed by the invertebrate bootlickers?

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 10:41

The truth regarding the lack of ppe for NHS staff seems to be getting out now.
The disregarding of the WHO advice of testing and isolating has cost thousands of lives.
It doesn't make good reading for the UK government.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 10:47

Quote:

BigJPar, Sat 11 Apr 10:41

The truth regarding the lack of ppe for NHS staff seems to be getting out now.
The disregarding of the WHO advice of testing and isolating has cost thousands of lives.
It doesn't make good reading for the UK government.


A close relative of mine is working in the Victoria. She doesn't even get a mask. PPE is only issued to staff manning ICUs.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 10:52

Quote:

wee eck, Sat 11 Apr 09:42

Isn't it the case that the figures for England only include deaths in hospitals? If so, there's going to be a sharp increase when 'deaths in the community' are included.


The Tories aren't that daft, eck. Excluding deaths in the community is a deliberate ploy to keep the official figures lower. They did similarly with unemployment, so that only those actively seeking employment would be classed as such.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 11:15

Hancock now blaming MHS staff for fear shortages...classy.

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 11:24

We would be better with Tony Hancock
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 11:30

Hancock doesn’t inspire confidence at all.




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 12:58

Quote:

Raymie the Legend, Sat 11 Apr 11:30

Hancock doesn’t inspire confidence at all.


Does any Tory?

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 13:40


🤣



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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 18:04

I know this is 11 days old and if it has been posted before please accept my apologies in advance but this makes the most sense to me in explaining the Covid deaths and/or normal deaths whether infected or not

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51979654
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: AJ27  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 18:22

Total year to date deaths from respiratory diseases (including covid) in the UK are currently lower than in 5 of the last 8 years.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 19:02

I came across that article last week. It certainly seems at odds with the megaphone panic being issued by the government and its media.

Peter Hitchens today claimed that the ‘extra’ number of deaths is around 1,000 a week, although there are two problems about this. First of all we don’t know how many of those deaths would have occurred later in the year anyhow due to illness or old age, so perhaps the number of ‘extra deaths’ is actually less. On the other hand the quarantine approach has presumably prevented a tremendous spike in the numbers being infected, although since we are not sure what the fatality rate is, it is hard to quantify how many lives may have been saved by this lockdown.

I have said from the outset that the numbers of deaths from this virus will be a great deal less than forecast (originally 500,000) and that the long term health issues created by an enforced lockdown will be considerable and with us for some time in the future.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 19:26

Quote:

AJ27, Sun 12 Apr 18:22

Total year to date deaths from respiratory diseases (including covid) in the UK are currently lower than in 5 of the last 8 years.


Remember though, that the Covid deaths do not include those dying in the community, so it's not a valid comparison as it stands.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 19:47

How effective is the lockdown?

The most immediate way to judge the current policy is to see if the health service manages to cope with the coronavirus cases it sees in the coming weeks.

Beyond that, the key measure will be what is called excess deaths - the difference between the expected number of deaths and actual deaths.

This is closely monitored during flu seasons. During recent winters, there have been about 17,000 excess deaths from flu a year, Public Health England says.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 20:18

Quote:

GG Riva, Sun 12 Apr 19:26

Quote:

AJ27, Sun 12 Apr 18:22

Total year to date deaths from respiratory diseases (including covid) in the UK are currently lower than in 5 of the last 8 years.


Remember though, that the Covid deaths do not include those dying in the community, so it's not a valid comparison as it stands.


It does in Scotland if it's on the death certificate.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 20:58

But they are only doing hospital based testing arent they?
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 21:04

Well we will see what PPE kit my wife receives tomm to start her shift as a carer on Thursday.
So far nothing and her clients have had family etc going in houses..... and some of them visiting shops.
No bosses have left their homes to do assessments on cases etc as they should so Iv said any crap then just pack up and come home.
The council can get to fek tbh.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 21:36

That's an absolute disgrace, EEP. They've had weeks to get this sorted. Get on to Douglas Chapman.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 21:42

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--pwI4E9tsk
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 21:48

Quote:

ipswichpar, Sun 12 Apr 20:58

But they are only doing hospital based testing arent they?


In Scotland if they have shown Covid symptoms prior to their death the doctor will put it as cause of death or contributory. This is inflating the actual figures in Scotland.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 22:08

Not trying to be funny but Borris is looking better than ever after being released from hospital yesterday!😅
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 22:14

Does she work in a care home, EEP?




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 22:34

No Raymie she goes from house to house looking after the old dears. Some on her own then need to double up if there is a hoist etc involved....
she has only received 2 throw away masks, no hand sanitizer and told to “get on with it”
These old folk have been out and family members living with them that have been out so should be given appropriate PPE to do the job?
No assessments from the bosses who should be out!
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 23:02

Quote:

EEP, Sun 12 Apr 22:08

Not trying to be funny but Borris is looking better than ever after being released from hospital yesterday!😅


Quick facelift and general tuck maybe. 🤣🤣
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 23:03

Does she work for the council or a private care firm ?

Regardless, it’s unacceptable. She must be torn between helping her patients and protecting herself. ?
I’m pretty sure she could win her case if she refused to do her job ?




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 23:32

Council and the bosses are all tucked away in their homes! Hopefully going to pick up some PPE over the next couple of days to start her shift.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Kessel  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 01:06

Quote:

LochgellyAlbert, Fri 10 Apr 19:41

Meanwhile Joe Cardle out delivering pizzas to NHS staff, love it!!👍😎


Plenty members of the community out doing the same, and maybe even more, but not feeling the need to have a camera crew follow them around for publicity.

The nurses & doctors of the NHS fighting this horrible disease on the front line are true heroes. Not someone delivering pizzas and doing it for self gain 🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 07:12

Anyone know what's happening in Sweden?

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 08:23

899 deaths from 10483 confirmed apparently Rasta
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 14:28

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18376682.companies-providing-ppe-nhs-prioritising-england-scotland/
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 15:06

Surprise, surprise! None of the media representatives asking questions at today's briefing by Nicola Sturgeon felt the need to ask her if suppliers were favouring English care homes over Scottish ones. They preferred to labour the point about sources saying they were still under-supplied.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 22:09

Sooo my wife contacted the council to ask about PPE and she can pick up equipment on Friday👍.... then asked about PPE as she starts on Thursday..., well there’s nobody in the office till Friday😩
This is getting beyond a joke. So I’m going out tomm to buy 7 throw away face masks for her Thursday shift as hardly any clients she visits stay indoors and have family/up to 3 different carers going in and out the house in a single day?
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 22:19

Really sorry for you and your wife EEP.Ridiculous anybody would even expect her to work under these circumstances without ppe.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 00:08

Thanks Donj but Iv had enough of this **** tbh and maybe the folk(managers) at home that should have been doing assessments for carers to meet their clients demands.
It’s got to a point that nobody knows where to collect PPE and Iv had enough.
I can see a argument tomm between my wife and myself but it’s getting to the point I’ll go out with her on Thursday and any client that has folk in their house then not going in.... stuff that!
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 07:29

Quote:

Buspasspar, Mon 13 Apr 08:23

899 deaths from 10483 confirmed apparently Rasta


I wondered as they had disappeared from the news...

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 07:50

Quote:

EEP, Mon 13 Apr 22:09

Sooo my wife contacted the council to ask about PPE and she can pick up equipment on Friday👍.... then asked about PPE as she starts on Thursday..., well there’s nobody in the office till Friday😩
This is getting beyond a joke. So I’m going out tomm to buy 7 throw away face masks for her Thursday shift as hardly any clients she visits stay indoors and have family/up to 3 different carers going in and out the house in a single day?


You'll be doing well to find any face masks for sale, mate. I've heard they're like gold dust.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 07:55

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52275823

Why are these included in Scotland's figures, but not in the UK's?





Not your average Sunday League player.

Post Edited (Tue 14 Apr 08:14)
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: d3monstrate  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 09:10

EEP...

If you stay around Dunfermline, I can give you a few face masks. We’ve got them for my work, but I’m now on holiday for a couple of weeks. Can also provide a few pairs of disposable gloves?



Post Edited (Tue 14 Apr 09:15)
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 09:34

They are included in the UK figures just not daily as it takes longer for death certificates to be completed for those who pass away outwith hospital. At least that's my reading of it.

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 10:02

Quote:

GG Riva, Tue 14 Apr 07:55

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52275823

Why are these included in Scotland's figures, but not in the UK's?


Going to be included in the figures from tomorrow onwards I believe
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 12:56

Thank you d3monstrate, that’s very kind of you but I was informed this morning that PPE has suddenly appeared in the offices and available to pick up today.
I’ll head through later.
It’s funny how things just become available when a few choice words were made to the bosses.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 13:58

The claims that some PPE suppliers were favouring English care homes over Scottish ones were raised by quite a few media representatives at today's briefing by NS. Jeane Freeman said she was going to raise it with Mat Hancock in a scheduled telephone consultation but he had cancelled that so she was going to write to him about it.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 14:19

Who's up for Bill Gates leading the mandatory vaccination and microchipping?

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 19:28

Quote:

wee eck, Tue 14 Apr 13:58

The claims that some PPE suppliers were favouring English care homes over Scottish ones were raised by quite a few media representatives at today's briefing by NS. Jeane Freeman said she was going to raise it with Mat Hancock in a scheduled telephone consultation but he had cancelled that so she was going to write to him about it.


This was proven not to be true. The company in question had a load of old Public Health England stock. That's why it was for England only. Health is devolved in Scotland and, as of 2 weeks ago, supported by Public Health Scotland.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 20:42

Can you put up the link to this new proof Jake.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 20:55

Proof? Since when did that count for anything with the .net masses?

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 21:04

No room for proof here.
Wild accusations and malarkey only please... All mixed with a dash of tomfoolery for added taste.
Carry on 😉



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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 22:04

Proof? Read the news. It's been widely reported. Sorry, to be clear, The National isn't classed as "news" 😂
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 22:15

So the Guardian and the Times are not news either.It has only been widely denied after it was reported in those and The National.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 22:21

And the National has clarified the mistake? They didn't even get the story right. They claimed it was a Westminster decision when it was Public Health England.

But good to know you're now aware the story is utter nonsense.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 22:29

From Borris to Sturgeon I can’t stand any of them and their politics now tbh.
Both parties can GTF as far as I am concerned!
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 22:33

In fairness, Sturgeon only said it should be checked. She got it checked, it was nonsense but still some folk choose to act like they're still be discriminated against rather than asking why the Scottish Government hasn't sourced more PPE.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Thaipar  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 22:52

Don't think that you realise but every country is trying to source ppe not just the UK.
Here is just as bad even though our numbers are very low.
We have a few factories in Thailand that produce over 2 million masks DAILY but still since early February the general public has struggled to buy any,and unfortunately the black market has a few boxes of them for sale.
Most folk here now wear cloth masks as opposed to surgical, cloth are generally either home made or factory made, but not surgical.
We have about 40 deaths here due to cóvid 19 but still the netizens are going crazy as they can't get masks, saying the government is failing the public!!

General stockists in the UK will wait a minimum of 6 weeks if waiting on a shipment from China. Not many flights now and the cost obviously goes up.

Looking from afar I think the UK government were far too slow in acting as it was widely seen Europe was weeks behind Asia for the spread of the virus, but still done nothing to source ppe or ventilators.

Please don't book me Admin, it will ruin my life.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 22:57

You obviously never read that company website and I couldn't care less who directed it as it was.I saw that site and it specifically said that Scotland and Wales could forget supplies although they were very sorry.It was not a made up thing.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 23:05

And why couldn't Scotland and Wales have it? Was it the small issue of who owned the PPE? Namely Public Health ENGLAND!

Jason Leitch (sort of important Scot Gov guy in terms of health...) said it was nonsense this morning yet still people won't listen.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 23:18

It's funny how unionists get all uptight about the National because it openly states it supports independence but they have no qualms about all the other papers who support the union and slant their stories accordingly.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 23:37

Jason Leitch was not in possession of the facts whet he made that statement this morning. Even if he was his politics would prevent him from criticising U.K. Gov.

PHE owned the products? Did they ? That’s news to me.

Remember U.K. Gov have already pulled a similar stunt against Wales a couple of weeks ago.....they have history.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 23:40

Just for clarity - not a unionist. More someone who can't bide nonsense in the media and people who froth at the mouth over a scandal without actually checking the facts (or accepting them after they're made very clear).

As for the National. It's headline was:

Westminster tells vital supply firms not to deal with Scotland


The Guardian went with:

Scotland and Wales concerned over reports England is prioritised for coronavirus PPE

The National headline turned out to be nonsense. The Guardian headline is still correct. Scotland and Wales (or the Government/Assembly of those nations) were concerned. It was then clarified and the matter is resolved.

I'm sure there'll be another conspiracy tomorrow. Maybe England (or Westminster if that's the new thing) sent Prince Charles to Aberdeenshire to spread COVID-19 to fishermen as a distraction from plans to sell of Scottish fishing waters.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 23:43

Quote:

desparado, Tue 14 Apr 23:37

Jason Leitch was not in possession of the facts whet he made that statement this morning. Even if he was his politics would prevent him from criticising U.K. Gov.

PHE owned the products? Did they ? That’s news to me.

Remember U.K. Gov have already pulled a similar stunt against Wales a couple of weeks ago.....they have history.


It's old PHE stock. They were stockpiled for a potential flu outbreak. The stock was checked and given new expiry dates.

This seems similar to the story a couple of weeks ago about the army being sent in to Dundee Uni to take Corona testing machines to England. Guess what? That was nonsense too.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 07:33

Oops Jake, PPE company confirming again they were told by U.K. Gov NOT to sell to Scotland or Wales.

Looks like someone is telling porkies then?


Jackson Carlow and Alister Jack will be all over the media today condemning this......
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 07:37

What's your source?
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: DulochConvert  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 07:57

ONE new hospital admission yesterday, yeah ONE! However we are still looking at another 3 weeks of house arrest.
Presumably we have no exit strategy and just waiting for ???
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 08:14

Where is the evidence of this, desperado. The latest news was that the firm in question had confirmed PHE had said it was for England only as it was PHE stock.

Can you provide evidence that this has since changed? So that would be an update from today.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 08:23

Where is the source that this is old PHE stock? I haven't seen that reported anywhere?
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 08:25

Courier, Press and Journal, BBC...
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Thaipar  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 08:59

Old story going back to March.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-52025950

Please don't book me Admin, it will ruin my life.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 09:45

Sturgeon on the telly this morning saying she's happy nothing dodgy going on. Are people happy now?
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 14:49

Sturgeon was forced to say that by the illuminati.
I can't believe how naive you are!
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 15:40

Plaid Cymru have written to the EU complaining that this is a breach of EU regulations. Has no one told them Brexit's 'done'?
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 15:49

I hope that's a tongue-in-cheek comment!



Post Edited (Wed 15 Apr 15:50)
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 18:58

Quote:

aaaaaaaaaargh, Wed 15 Apr 14:49

Sturgeon was forced to say that by the illuminati.
I can't believe how naive you are!


Should've guessed. Word amongst the SNP is that Nicola's being held in the tower of London and the Nicola we see is a clone. Read it in The National so it must be true.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 22:36

Topic Originator: jake89 like | nolike
Date: Wed 15 Apr 09:45

Sturgeon on the telly this morning saying she's happy nothing dodgy going on. Are people happy now?


Not quite. She said that she had been given assurances that PHE would not stop any of these companies selling PPE to Scotland or Wales.

The crux of the matter is someone from PHE did indeed instruct the companies not to sell to Scotland or Wales, it was clearly stated on Gompels website.

PHE deny this of course.

Sturgeon being diplomatic under the circumstances and a line is drawn under it now.

John Rentoul deleted a tweet in which he accused NS of trying to make political gain from the situation after it transpired there was « some «  evidence that the companies had been instructed.

Bottom line is we will probably never know.

I saw a tweet today that suggested the companies were told the PPE was for U.K. use only and somebody in their wisdom took UK to be England. Plausible but does not explain why they went as far as to say explicitly the PPE was not to be sold to Scotland or Wales and apologise on their website.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 10:57

This from the Beeb

A leaked letter seen by the BBC has revealed an extensive list of concerns about how the social care sector is coping with the coronavirus crisis.
The letter raises fears about funding, testing, personal protective equipment (PPE) and the shielding scheme for vulnerable people.

Written on Saturday, to a senior official at the Department of Health and Social Care by the Association of Directors of Adult Social Services (Adass), it says mixed messages from the government have created "confusion and additional workload".

On protective equipment for care workers, the letter says the national handling has been "shambolic".
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 11:35

Sturgeon was reassured that they wouldn't do what they weren't doing in the first place. They had PHE stock, which was to be provided only to the English health sector. All other stock will be available to all nations, which it already was.

Seems the usual conspiracy nuts are out with the "I heard that..." nonsense. Just because your pal told you something, doesn't mean it's true.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 12:08

It was Gompels who started this with a misleading statement on their website. It's not clear why they thought it necessary to put it there.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 14:13

Conspiracy nuts ? Really ? Now that is nuts ?
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 14:19

Topic Originator: jake89 like | nolike
Date: Tue 14 Apr 23:05

And why couldn't Scotland and Wales have it? Was it the small issue of who owned the PPE? Namely Public Health ENGLAND!

Jason Leitch (sort of important Scot Gov guy in terms of health...) said it was nonsense this morning yet still people won't listen .

Good to see Jason Leitch apologise also now eh Jake ? You were quick to sing his praises.

This is the numpty who still sees no problem with mass gatherings as he thinks it is easier to catch the virus in a pub or a restaurant than at a Stereophonics concert. Personally I can’t see the difference. Close contact and all that.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 14:58

Jason Leitch provides updates based on the current knowledge and data provided. The Stereophonics comment was back in March, prior to any suggestion if lock down.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 15:21

And he reiterated it again on GMS On Monday.

Good to see you acknowledged his apology..............Just because you heard him say it on the radio does not make it true now......does it ?

Lol
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 17:55

He reiterated to go to a Stereophonics gig? I don't follow every word he says, but I'd be surprised given the current campaign by the Scottish Government where it suggests staying at home.

I'm not suggesting Jason Leitch is infallible, but he is usually on the money and is very clear in his messaging.

You seem to be diverting from the fact the story on PPE has been concluded as being nonsense.

Edited to add:

Just listened to what Jason Leitch said. He apologised for causing potential confusion by rubbishing the story. He clarified that the firm in question were NOT asked by PHE to only to provide to England. The stock in question was PHE stock so would never be offered to Scotland in the same was National Services Scotland (NSS) supplies would not be offered to England. So he apologised for being flippant but was still right in saying it was nonsense.

Seems like you're twisting the facts a bit, desperado. I suppose if you say the same thing enough times, you may begin to think it's true. Like repeating that the SNP are competent...😂

Post Edited (Thu 16 Apr 19:00)
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 19:49

Well we will go round in circles here so my last comment is somebody is still telling Porkies. These companies did not put the notice on their websites of their own free will and without spending time I would rather spend doing something else , at least one company has said that they were instructed to.

When you talk about the SNP being competent , are you talking about the SNP or the Scottish Gov?

If it is the SNP then they are extremely competent otherwise they would not have won every election in Scotland for the past ten years or more or have the third highest ,or is it the second highest membership in the U.K. They are slowly but surely winning the argument on independence as the last few polls have shown. Remarkable feat considering where they were in 2011.

Do they have internal issues just now? You bet they do and I am sure some of the big hitters will not be relishing AS spilling the beans in a few months time.

If it is the Scot Gov you are referring to then I also think they are competent, better actually. Who do you suggest we have instead of them? Or would you prefer direct rule from the bunch of expensively educated idiots in WM?

Could they do better in some aspects? Of course no government is perfect but I believe that in general they do a decent job whilst getting pilloried from the press on a daily basis regardless of what they do. Damned if they do and damned if they don’t.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 20:32

So, by your own logic, the Tories are doing a smashing job? They've won more elections and been in Government for over a decade. Must be doing a great job, no? Of course not. They're in because they appeal to the populist vote, not because they're necessarily doing a good job.

If you want a very recent example, look at our local MP spouting utter guff about COVID-19 being less prevalent in Scotland because we have a better NHS "than England". There is no evidence to back up his statement. It is incredibly ignorant and it's embarrassing that someone in such a position could be so stupid to share such an ill-informed view on a public platform.

As has been covered many times now. The stock in question was PHE stock. It was therefore CORRECTLY marked for use within the NHS and care homes in England. Can you imagine the uproar if PHE was coming up here demanding we sell them Scottish procured PPE?
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 21:02

Hate to break it to you Jake but PHE is actually a UK government run organisation and it buys with UK government funds for the UK not just for England.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 21:39

Hate to break it to you - no it doesn't.

PHE, as the name suggests, is only responsible for England. Yes, it is ultimately responsible to the UK Government, but only because there is no English Government.

Scotland, as of this month, has Public Health Scotland who are responsible for protecting Scotland's health amongst other things (ultimately responsible to the Scot Gov). PPE is procured via National Services Scotland. NSS can buy the stock from wherever they please (within procurement rules) but obviously can't buy stock owned by another government agency without their consent.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 23:53

Heard that the Care badges that Hancock was showing off have to be bought !!

Surely not.


Meanwhile in Scotland care workers have just been given a pay rise.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Fri 17 Apr 00:04

The PPE resourcing is being led centrally from Westminster and stock is being allocated to the devolved administrations as its needed.

The devolved nations also have the ability to try and procure their own PPE but I think they're trying to avoid situations where they end up competing against each other so Westminster is taking the lead.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Fri 17 Apr 08:49

Wuhan reviews deaths by 50% and countries are starting to ask serious questions of the Chinese.

I suspect there is a lot more to come out ?




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Fri 17 Apr 08:53

Did anyone seriously believe the figures they were claiming though?
And they're not the only ones fudging the numbers



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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Fri 17 Apr 09:31

Not one single death in North Korea ??
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: auldpar  
Date:   Fri 17 Apr 10:48


'Heard that the Care badges that Hancock was showing off have to be bought !!

Surely not.'

£1.20 each - minimum order 100.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Fri 17 Apr 14:12

Quote:

widtink, Fri 17 Apr 08:53

Did anyone seriously believe the figures they were claiming though?
And they're not the only ones fudging the numbers


Agree wholeheartedly




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Fri 17 Apr 14:15

couple of friends who work in education down south and have been tasked to plan for schools returning from 1st June. They are 2 weeks behind Scotland in terms of starting summer break and tasks relate to certain age groups/school years so looks like planning a phased start back this side of summer

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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Fri 17 Apr 16:36

Quote:

Buspasspar, Fri 17 Apr 09:31

Not one single death in North Korea ??


Although this is very unlikely, you have to remember this is a state which is in virtually perpetual lockdown. Not many people in or out
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 17 Apr 19:43

I heard someone on RS asking why the UK is still seeing flights coming in from the USA and New York in particular. I didn't hear the reply - if there was one.

I've also heard that passengers arriving at UK airports from abroad are not routinely tested for Covid-19. Bewildering, if true.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Fri 17 Apr 19:47

This country is riddled with it as much as anywhere else in the world. What’s the difference between testing someone getting off a flight and someone that’s just been in a shop?
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Fri 17 Apr 19:53

All true GG there have been flights coming in to Heathrow for weeks from all the infected Countries and aye from China !! people back from Holiday Chinese back from visiting relatives and how many were tested ??.. None, Nada, Ziltch, treble 0, double blank, fek all ... I have spoken at a 2 metre distance with folk who managed to get flights back from Spain and Italy albeit the last available flights Walked into and through Edinburgh airport without a second look :(
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Fri 17 Apr 19:56

“All true GG there have been flights coming in to Heathrow for weeks from all the infected Countries and aye from China !! “

Are people still of the mindset that it’s theses countries that are infected and not us?
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Fri 17 Apr 20:02

There are about 15,000 people a day coming into the UK (mainly London apparently) with no restrictions from any location and no checks.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Fri 17 Apr 20:06

Quote:-

Topic Originator: allparone like | nolike
Date: Fri 17 Apr 19:47

This country is riddled with it as much as anywhere else in the world. What’s the difference between testing someone getting off a flight and someone that’s just been in a shop?

allparone

I think what G.G's post is alluding to is that unless there is/was stricter controls at the UK airports then Aye the undetected/untested visitor is the one you will catch it from in a sweetie shop in Kilmarnock
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Fri 17 Apr 20:07

Testing people is useless unless they are showing symptoms as the tests can show as negative until that point. Closing borders and so on was for the containment phase. Unfortunately we’re way past that stage. The ball was dropped early on at the containment stage unfortunately.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Fri 17 Apr 20:11

Busspasspar, that’s the kind of attitude I was alluding to. Catching it from the foreigner rather than one of our own. We’re one of the worst countries in the world now as a percentage of population. You are now far more likely to catch it from a uk resident in a shop than you are from someone getting off a plane.

Edit. The more I read this statement the more gobsmacked I am.


“unless there is/was stricter controls at the UK airports then Aye the undetected/untested visitor is the one you will catch it from in a sweetie shop in Kilmarnock”

Unbelievable.

Post Edited (Fri 17 Apr 20:17)
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Fri 17 Apr 20:21

Correct allparone

BUT and its a BIG BUT what if we had tested/quarantined or stopped flight into our Country to minimise the spread ?

That should have been one or the first step towards keeping the virus out but No Boris the 50/50 Brave had no interest in Covid 19 he had to get Brexit Done

Therefore all preparations were curtailed until it was too late and we are now reaping the failure in 14,000 plus deaths
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Fri 17 Apr 20:27

I agree with that but it’s past that point now. As I said the ball was dropped. Testing people on flights into the country now isn’t going to make any difference.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 17 Apr 21:08

Quote:

allparone, Fri 17 Apr 19:47

This country is riddled with it as much as anywhere else in the world. What’s the difference between testing someone getting off a flight and someone that’s just been in a shop?


I take your point and of course it makes no difference who you catch it from, but it makes a bit of a mockery of internal strategies such as the lockdown imo. I'm surprised that scheduled flights have been allowed to carry on long after the charter flights were grounded.

What's the difference between catching the virus from a holiday maker returning from Spain as opposed to a businessman arriving from N.Y.?



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Fri 17 Apr 21:29

I’m not sure I get your point about the holidaymaker and the business man. My point is at this time the problem isn’t coming in to the country. It’s here and it’s here to stay for a while. “Why the hell would you want to come here?” Is probably the question that should be asked of the people coming in but they’re obviously doing it for a very good reason.

Post Edited (Fri 17 Apr 21:30)
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Fri 17 Apr 21:45

Quote:

allparone, Fri 17 Apr 20:07

Testing people is useless unless they are showing symptoms as the tests can show as negative until that point. Closing borders and so on was for the containment phase. Unfortunately we’re way past that stage. The ball was dropped early on at the containment stage unfortunately.


I'd agree that we have acted far too late but respectfully I disagree with almost everything else.

None of the tests are 100% foolproof but the ones that have passed regulatory approval are more accurate than not.

Identifying asymptomatic carriers is actually one of the most important parts of the battle against the virus.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8226683/One-forty-six-homeless-NO-symptoms-test-positive-COVID-19-Boston-shelter.html

That's a good example of why it's important to test people that dont have CV symptoms. The number of carriers with no symptoms can be significant.

I put this on the 1st thread and it highlights why capturing small numbers of infected people makes a huge difference in the total number of future infected:

Flu @ 1.3 = 14 people infected rounded up to nearest whole person.
Flu @ 1.4 = 40 people infected rounded up to the nearest whole person
CV @ 3 = 59,049 people infected.

The above number is a comparison of CV vs the flu and how many people are infected after ten rounds of transmission.

It's why even stopping a small number of people coming into the country with CV can make a difference as to how many people ultimately need treatment and subsequently die. Some of the early stats indicated that 20% of carriers needed hospital attention. That's far more than we can handle if that happens on wider basis.

People in the UK can obviously pass it on at the same levels which is why the lock down is important.

You then need mass testing to identify those who are testing negative and can move around vs those that are positive and need to be quarantined.

The problem is we aren't anywhere near being capable to test enough people to identify enough that need to be isolated to prevent another surge of infections.

It's the way South Korea got on top of their surge in cases.

Edited as I left part of a point I changed my mind about at the end of post and thought I'd deleted.

Post Edited (Fri 17 Apr 21:51)
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Fri 17 Apr 23:17

“The problem is we aren't anywhere near being capable to test enough people to identify enough that need to be isolated to prevent another surge of infections.”

Correct so as I said what’s different to testing people coming off planes and testing people in the community at this moment? Are people travelling here more likely to have it than people already here?
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Fri 17 Apr 23:34

Depending on where they come from potentially yes but even if they are less likely to have the virus than someone already here it's still one more potential chain of exponential infections you're trying to eliminate.

If you test people coming in to the country it's an easier way to quarantine those that can increase the infection rate even if more could have been done elsewhere.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Sat 18 Apr 00:11

Good point, I’d agree with that to be fair. Moving a group of people into another group of people can only increase the chance of another chain as you say. My point about testing not working unless symptoms were showing came from the Scottish press conference yesterday. They were asked why new residents being admitted to care homes weren’t being tested and the answer given was that unless they were showing symptoms then the tests were likely to show them as being negative. To be fair I haven’t looked as in depth as you have. Ive probably been looking at it from a more simplistic view ie there is a pandemic which means the world is infected so what’s the difference between testing people travelling in to the UK from Europe than say people travelling into Dunfermline from the Lothians? Both areas are infected and there’s a chance that a new chain can be started by each movement. It’s more complicated than that admittedly.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Sat 18 Apr 00:57

If there is no ability to distinguish between the healthy and the sick then the Lockdown might as well last into perpetuity. The original plan of ‘herd immunity’ can hardly work under quarantine and given that we have struggled to find a vaccine for what we used to call the common ‘flu, I would not be optimistic about a CV vaccine anytime soon.

I listened to Matt Hancock’s speech on Friday afternoon and his six point plan did little to convince me the government was doing any more than trying to contain the numbers of patients requiring hospital treatment. Other countries have adopted a more robust approach aimed at isolating those who are infected with the intent of eliminating the virus.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Thaipar  
Date:   Sat 18 Apr 03:38

I heard Matt Hancock saying in normal times there are about 10,000 deaths monthly in care homes.
Not sure how that is equating to current figures.

Please don't book me Admin, it will ruin my life.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sat 18 Apr 06:18

Quote:

allparone, Fri 17 Apr 21:29

I’m not sure I get your point about the holidaymaker and the business man. My point is at this time the problem isn’t coming in to the country. It’s here and it’s here to stay for a while. “Why the hell would you want to come here?” Is probably the question that should be asked of the people coming in but they’re obviously doing it for a very good reason.


Sorry for being so oblique. Charter flights were grounded several weeks ago, presumably to slow down the international infection rate between the UK and popular holiday destinations. Why then has this not been applied to many scheduled flights? It's not as if those travelling on these flights are less likely to be carrying the virus. I want to stress that I'm not including those specially arranged flights to bring home UK nationals stranded abroad as a result of other flights being cancelled.

I get your point that the Covid-19 horse is long gone, but leaving the stable door wide open is not going to help the Government's stated aim of slowing down the infection rate so that the NHS is not overwhelmed. Do we really want to imitate the USA? If you check the live flight radar, you'll see that it's absolutely hoaching with flights all over the country, any time of the day or night.

That should help those states who are lagging behind with infections to catch up and then the bold Donald can get them all back to work, to protect the economy.



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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Sat 18 Apr 06:38

<<If you check the live flight radar, you'll see that it's absolutely hoaching with flights all over the country, any time of the day or night.>>


A very high proportion of those flights are cargo planes with goods for our supermarkets. Most scheduled passenger flights have been dramatically reduced.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Sat 18 Apr 07:19

Here's a very interesting interview from PBS with Peter Daszak, a disease ecologist and the president of EcoHealth Alliance, a nonprofit that works globally to identify and study our vulnerabilities to emerging infectious disease.

In the interview he debunks the idea that this virus escaped from a lab, describing it as "just pure baloney". Pandemic viruses that emerge originate in wildlife, he says. And he explains why a bat is the most likely culprit...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x_pIgvDLcg
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Sat 18 Apr 08:50

“Coronavirus: Why are planes still flying?”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52098430

All entirely reasonable but folk will still fixate on it - passenger flights carry cargo, few passengers are onboard anyway and lets face it next to no one is travelling for holidays or non essential business.




Post Edited (Sat 18 Apr 08:50)
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Sat 18 Apr 10:03

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11417314/15000-people-a-day-into-uk-without-coronavirus-testing/

That's people that will predominantly head for public transport when they arrive.

Other countries don't necessarily have the same restrictions in place that we do so people that are infected can come into the country freely.

"But the UK government has said screening passengers upon arrival would do little to halt the spread of the bug because the scale of the UK's outbreak is so big."

That's horse **** for the reason about future infections that I posted earlier on. It also goes against WHO guidance to test as many as possible.

The reason we aren't testing people is that the Government have goosed it again and we don't have enough testing kits.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Sat 18 Apr 22:45

Topic Originator: jake89 like | nolike
Date: Thu 16 Apr 20:32

So, by your own logic, the Tories are doing a smashing job? They've won more elections and been in Government for over a decade. Must be doing a great job, no? Of course not. They're in because they appeal to the populist vote, not because they're necessarily doing a good job.



Hate to break it to you but the Tories win elections because they are aided and abetted by a complicit media. Most of the print media is owned by Tories.

The SNP win elections despite being lambasted by the media on a daily basis. That is success, to win elections with little or no support from the media.

If the SNP had as much backing from the media as the Tories get we would be independent by now.

Regarding Mr Champans tweet. Can you imagine if the death rate was higher in Scotland? Mr Rennie, Carlow, Leonard etc along with a whole lot of others would be queuing up to have a go at NS/Scot Gov.

NHSS had a far better record than NHSE in combating the Novovirus so I am not surprised they seem to be doing a better job in combatting CV especially when I read recently that NHS staff in England were still allowed to travel to and from work in their uniforms yet that practice was stopped in Scotland a few years ago.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: dave67  
Date:   Sat 18 Apr 22:56

https://raceequalityfoundation.org.uk/health-care/coronavirus-information-and-resources/


Did see a bit on the news they are going to be breaking those with the virus due to their ethnicity

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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Sat 18 Apr 23:12

Trump is starting to call out what he sees as a bluff. CV is no more than severe ‘flu’. The people who are vulnerable are dying. As always happens with or without a lockdown. He may, or not , be wrong. We never hear much about Sweden.

Trump is the voice of American capital that wants business as usual, the accumulation of wealth. Sod the rest. I have long understood that.

The problem I have is that there is no credible left wing attempt to break the blockade. The left are all screaming for workers to be paid for nothing: the worst argument against capitalism imaginable. They don’t want to take over the factories: they want the factories to be abolished under Greta Thurnberg. The lockdown is a suicide note.

I fear Trump will come out of this looking stronger than he went in. The actual death rate is minimal so far as I can understand it until I hear better. Trump knows tis and is bashing on.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Sun 19 Apr 01:42

If we're going to kill people for the sake of the economy then we should at least pick the ones wirh money.

Line up the 500 richest in each country and use their resources to shore up health provision and restart the economy.

Basically ensure that every country is in the fortunate position of sweden who have sufficient hospital provision to deal with this with minimal (but not zero) social distancing. It's not free though: either we occasionally cull the wealthy or they start paying proper tax.

The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel the warmth.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 19 Apr 08:55

Wouldn't say the Swedish model is one we should be looking to emulate. It's death rate from corona is double that of its Scandinavian neighbours and its own medical community has criticised the government. I only know this because it has been covered by a number of media outlets.

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 19 Apr 09:43

The Sunday Times giving Boris the Brave a Bashing



But it's the previous actions of the PM that receive the focus of The Sunday Times, which reports a "crucial" five week period was "lost" in the UK's fight against coronavirus, during which Mr Johnson missed high-level meetings to discuss Covid-19.

The paper says "government whistleblowers" have raised concerns over a lack of urgency as the threat from the virus grew in February. Separately, the paper says ministers are planning for schools to reopen in three weeks' time.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 19 Apr 10:00

Quote:

desparado, Sat 18 Apr 22:45

Topic Originator: jake89 like | nolike
Date: Thu 16 Apr 20:32

So, by your own logic, the Tories are doing a smashing job? They've won more elections and been in Government for over a decade. Must be doing a great job, no? Of course not. They're in because they appeal to the populist vote, not because they're necessarily doing a good job.



Hate to break it to you but the Tories win elections because they are aided and abetted by a complicit media. Most of the print media is owned by Tories.

The SNP win elections despite being lambasted by the media on a daily basis. That is success, to win elections with little or no support from the media.

If the SNP had as much backing from the media as the Tories get we would be independent by now.

Regarding Mr Champans tweet. Can you imagine if the death rate was higher in Scotland? Mr Rennie, Carlow, Leonard etc along with a whole lot of others would be queuing up to have a go at NS/Scot Gov.

NHSS had a far better record than NHSE in combating the Novovirus so I am not surprised they seem to be doing a better job in combatting CV especially when I read recently that NHS staff in England were still allowed to travel to and from work in their uniforms yet that practice was stopped in Scotland a few years ago.


Translation for this whole message:

"Aye, but whitaboot, whitaboot, whitaboot"

Chapman has been called out. I don't see it being picked up in the media though. I thought the media hated the SNP? I suppose NHS Fife should be boasting about fewer deaths in comparison to Greater Glasgow and Clyde? Because it's obviously down to performance and nothing to do with demographics or population density.

Can you provide the data on Norovirus? Scottish stats should be provided weekly on the HPS website. Imagine the English stats will be provided on PHEs website. Welsh stats may be included on PHEs website too.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 19 Apr 10:35

Quote:

jake89, Sun 19 Apr 10:00

Quote:

desparado, Sat 18 Apr 22:45

Topic Originator: jake89 like | nolike
Date: Thu 16 Apr 20:32

So, by your own logic, the Tories are doing a smashing job? They've won more elections and been in Government for over a decade. Must be doing a great job, no? Of course not. They're in because they appeal to the populist vote, not because they're necessarily doing a good job.



Hate to break it to you but the Tories win elections because they are aided and abetted by a complicit media. Most of the print media is owned by Tories.

The SNP win elections despite being lambasted by the media on a daily basis. That is success, to win elections with little or no support from the media.

If the SNP had as much backing from the media as the Tories get we would be independent by now.

Regarding Mr Champans tweet. Can you imagine if the death rate was higher in Scotland? Mr Rennie, Carlow, Leonard etc along with a whole lot of others would be queuing up to have a go at NS/Scot Gov.

NHSS had a far better record than NHSE in combating the Novovirus so I am not surprised they seem to be doing a better job in combatting CV especially when I read recently that NHS staff in England were still allowed to travel to and from work in their uniforms yet that practice was stopped in Scotland a few years ago.


Translation for this whole message:

"Aye, but whitaboot, whitaboot, whitaboot"

Chapman has been called out but only by the Sun and Herald. I thought the media hated the SNP? Where's the BBC report? I suppose NHS Fife should be boasting about fewer deaths in comparison to Greater Glasgow and Clyde? Because it's obviously down to performance and nothing to do with demographics or population density.

Can you provide the data on Norovirus? Scottish stats should be provided weekly on the HPS website. Imagine the English stats will be provided on PHEs website. Welsh stats may be included on PHEs website too.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Mon 20 Apr 08:25

No Boris the Brave
No doctors gowns
No PPE
No testing kits
But Ministers are straining every sinew
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Thaipar  
Date:   Mon 20 Apr 12:53

Proposal on Thailand exit strategy.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1903640/ministry-floats-ideas-on-exit-strategy

Please don't book me Admin, it will ruin my life.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Thaipar  
Date:   Mon 20 Apr 12:54

If the UK looks same as this football may well be into next year along with pubs.

Please don't book me Admin, it will ruin my life.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Mon 20 Apr 16:12

flights to bring PPE here from Turkey are still grounded and not left UK yet.

Testing is at 20% of target we were promised we would be by this time next week and apparently 50% of current capable volume because we "haven't got enough people to test"

Whats the bet today presser see's Q1..." when will we lift restrictions/will you share exit strategy". The journalists are completey shambolic in holding those facing out to task on the promises made.

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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Mon 20 Apr 17:59

Virgin Atlantic seemingly bringing in stocks from China on their normal planes, putting packages on seats and in overhead lockers.
Would a cargo plane not hold more?
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Berkey  
Date:   Mon 20 Apr 18:04

The larger Cargo planes might be picking stuff up for other countries, due to delays and lack of a strategy we are at the back of queue for lots of things.

Let’s face it, our international standing has diminished somewhat in event years and brexit will make us largely irrelevant.

Just sitting here drenched in my own negativity!
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 20 Apr 19:45

That's what's hilarious. All the blexit mean blexit folks acting like we're a world leader and the empire is still alive an well when the reality is we can't even compete for some face masks.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Tue 21 Apr 11:38

Big story on Twitter just now is the 128 false NHS worker accounts that have been set up, to praise the work that is going on, PPE etc.

Government departments involved, the workers, whose pictures area used know nothing about it!

Stinks of Cambridge Analicita and Cummings.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 21 Apr 12:12

All the suspected accounts deleted and apparently were able to be controlled by one centralised bit of software that four folk had delegated access to.

Allegations definitely need looked at.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 21 Apr 13:08

There is no level this government will not stoop to to hide their shambolic handling of Covid 19
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 21 Apr 14:30

Wonder if it's the same people who write all the 5 star reviews on Trustpilot? You'll see 10 people saying they couldn't get a refund from an airline and then suddenly a 5 star review from someone that they had their refund processed in 10 minutes and think [name of airline] is doing just great.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Tue 21 Apr 14:34

77th Brigade.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Tue 21 Apr 15:01

It's the beginning of an astroturfing campaign to sway opinion towards having the lockdown lifted.

For example I suspect that in the next few days we'll see an increasing number of stories highlighting ways in which the lockdown is negatively impacting people or how some of the extra deaths are non-covid related and were caused by lockdown.

The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel the warmth.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Tue 21 Apr 16:09

Quote:

Wotsit, Tue 21 Apr 15:01

It's the beginning of an astroturfing campaign to sway opinion towards having the lockdown lifted.

For example I suspect that in the next few days we'll see an increasing number of stories highlighting ways in which the lockdown is negatively impacting people or how some of the extra deaths are non-covid related and were caused by lockdown.


I’ve seen theories that astroturfing is the driver for the liberty activity in the US and apparently most of the entirely unrelated web sites have the same owners. Meant to be designed to appeal to people of a certain demographic (presumably the ‘thick American’ demo).


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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Tue 21 Apr 19:02

Well, whats happened today:-

Failure to join EU procurement of PPE was a "political decision " not missed e-mails.

PPE from Turkey that was ordered on Saturday, sorry Sunday is still on the ground as the crews are picking up their duty free.

Nightingale Hospital at Excel in London still an exhibition centre as not enough nurses to staff it.

PM question time will be a hoot tomorrow.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Wed 22 Apr 21:18

Well PM's question time was quite civilised for a change, no yelling, jeering, booing etc.
I suggest it should continue this way, no extortionate expenses claims for 2/3 different residences, travelling etc.

Let's go for it!
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Thu 23 Apr 10:59

Late night news on ITV was certainly something to focus the mind.

Some professor stating lockdown will last into the new year, and figures from official statistics will put deaths at over 40K so far!

A cheery end to the day. 😢😢😢
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Thu 23 Apr 11:07

Certainly was LA also mutterings and stutterings that face masks may become compulsory
Noo wheres my sewing box
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Thu 23 Apr 11:37

I have been blanking most news coverage lately, especially late at night. Why put yourself through that before you try to go to sleep?

We all know what's going on. We know what we need to do to stop the spread. We know what to do if we end up showing symptoms.

Tuning in to the news late at night to hear idiots like Laura Kuenssberg & the like randomly speculating is the last thing you should be doing, for the sake of your mental health.

Repeats of Still Game recommended.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Thu 23 Apr 12:04

Yeah, your right DA, need to get to bed earlier and get up early to watch Piers Morgan barbequeing another Tory spokesperson!😎
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Thu 23 Apr 13:07

Quote:

LochgellyAlbert, Thu 23 Apr 12:04

Yeah, your right DA, need to get to bed earlier and get up early to watch Piers Morgan barbequeing another Tory spokesperson!😎


😁😁😁

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 24 Apr 09:08

Don't forget to take your daily fix of Dettol to keep the virus at bay! (Other brands are available).
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Fri 24 Apr 09:30

"Well, whats happened today:-

Failure to join EU procurement of PPE was a "political decision " not missed e-mails."

is that the Brussels PPE procurement scheme that has yet to purchase 1 garment of PPE?

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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Fri 24 Apr 10:15

That's not true. There have been four rounds of orders and deliveries are due shortly.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: dave67  
Date:   Fri 24 Apr 12:41

Had a phone call for life insurance today. Looks like the call centres are going back to work then

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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 24 Apr 12:48

I reckon this weekend could see the lockdown start to creak a bit.

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 24 Apr 13:38

Quote:

wee eck, Fri 24 Apr 09:08

Don't forget to take your daily fix of Dettol to keep the virus at bay! (Other brands are available).


A little Dettol a day, keeps the virus away.

D. Trump.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Fri 24 Apr 13:43

LOL
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: parsmad68  
Date:   Fri 24 Apr 15:09

I couldn’t finish watching that trump interview. It was cringe. Anyone who could sit through that nonsense has a better stomach than me. It wasn’t even funny anymore .
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: back oh the net  
Date:   Sat 25 Apr 06:28

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Fri 24 Apr 12:48

I reckon this weekend could see the lockdown start to creak a bit.


Aye yer right so far av been to the kitchen arms the bedroom inn the wee living room the wee shed and the green in the hoose just chapped the door at the kitchen arms for one before a make ma hame to ma pit for some kip

Come on ye pars ⚽️
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sun 26 Apr 00:01

Just watching Series 3 of Designated Survivor on Netflix, dealing with a virus that is threatening USA, remarkably similar to what is happening just now.

Only good thing is that it ain't Trump in charge, Keifer Sutherland will sort it!👍😎
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Fri 1 May 10:42

Starting to get serious now :-

My local Boots have run out of hair colour
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Fri 1 May 10:53

Quote:

Buspasspar, Fri 1 May 10:42

Starting to get serious now :-

My local Boots have run out of hair colour


😁😁😁

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Fri 1 May 10:57

Grey short and curlies here we come!
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Fri 1 May 17:44

So yesterday 122000+ tests were carried out on 73000 individuals, Priti doing the counting?🤔🤔🤔
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 1 May 18:05

Nope some individuals need tested more than once for several different reasons.

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: shrek par  
Date:   Fri 1 May 18:58

No they're counting those that have applied to get tested plus those by post too. Quite simply , talked the talk couldn't back it up, has to go. Time for the press to start the bite. Only one asking questions ATM is the guardian

Admin.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 1 May 19:22

Well the 122k figure includes 27k of postal tests which may or may not have been actually taken. That still leaves about a 25 thousand difference between the number of tests and the number of people tested because some people are tested more than once.
In Scotland if I am reading the figures correctly there have beena smudge over 85 thousand tests carried out but only 56 thousand people actually tested.

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Fri 1 May 19:56

Towk is correct

However the figures are still misleading and have been manipulated to look like the government have honoured their pledge

The difference is in the clever wording



The UK provided more than 122,000 coronavirus tests on the last day of April, passing the government's target, Health Secretary Matt Hancock said.

Mr Hancock said the target of 100,000 tests per day was an "audacious goal", but testing was necessary "for getting Britain back on her feet".

The figure includes home test kits counted when they were dispatched, which may not yet have been taken.
Mr Hancock set the goal on 2 April, when the UK was on 10,000 tests a day.

Some 27,510 people have now died in UK hospitals, care homes and the wider community after testing positive for coronavirus.

The total testing figure includes 27,497 kits which were delivered to people's homes and also 12,872 tests that were sent out to centres such as hospitals and NHS sites.

However, these may not have been actually used or sent back to a lab.



Post Edited (Fri 01 May 23:00)
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Fri 1 May 20:41

Ironically, if he had said there was 82k plus some more I would probably think that they had done a great job in difficult circumstances (getting themselves in a hole in the first place is another thing.....)

This just makes him clear to be a lying toad. God knows what lies beneath on those other 82k. Are 5k of them Chris Whitty putting his hand on someone's forehead to check their temperature?!?
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Fri 1 May 22:23

The UK Government have made a real mess of this. Unfortunately, the media are in their pocket, and the vast majority of people are too stupid to realise
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Fri 1 May 23:30

There has certainly been a great deal of drift in government policy which would have been highlighted in the media were Labour the governing party.

Initially the Tories were quite relaxed and assumed a Swedish style ‘herd immunity would do the trick.’ Maybe it would have. Next year when we count the excess deaths- the only reliable indicator- we might discover that Sweden was right. Whatever, once the scientific experts got the ear of Boris Johnson he panicked and went against his gut instinct to keep things calm.


That led to the lockdown, a blunt tool if ever there were one. Save a life by giving up living? But as a short term measure it could slow infection and allow time to distinguish the healthy from the sick. But for reasons that are not entirely clear the test and tracing was abandoned fairly early- maybe because it wouldn’t be easy in London which is all that matters.

Now the country seems stuck. Johnson is promising a speech next Thursday on the way forward? Thursday? What about tomorrow! You have a sense they don’t know what to do for the best. Johnson has one obvious problem if he tries to relax the lockdown: his right wing covidiots led by Piers Morgan have put the fear of death into the public so that if you opened schools, bars and restaurants tomorrow they would be more than half empty.

What the media are fearful of is the issue of Brexit in relation to this virus. If it transpires that a Brexit government has handled this affair worse than comparable European countries then it weakens the case for British exceptionalism.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 1 May 23:45

No worries on your last point Sammer for the Brexiters. France, Italy, Spain and Belgium are having a similar torrid time. Some a little better, some a little worse.

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Sat 2 May 00:04

It's a mixed bag so far and probably far too early to draw comparisons. For example Belgium is a very densely populated country unlike say Norway, which seems to be doing OK. The country the UK usually matches itself against- Germany- seems to have better figures by far.

Then what happens when the second wave hits? There might be no such phenomenon since presumably most of the vulnerable people have already succumbed; but if there is, then the lockdown may have to be restored which will be difficult to enforce.

The psychological problems of a lockdown are not really known- we are in strange new territory- but common sense suggests the number of suicides, acute depressions and domestic violence will all have increased over recent weeks. I really worry about the lack of interaction being experienced by young children who are unable to socialise with persons their own age or even extended family.

We might be arguing about this for years to come.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Sat 2 May 08:22

Quote:

red-star-par, Fri 1 May 22:23

The UK Government have made a real mess of this. Unfortunately, the media are in their pocket, and the vast majority of people are too stupid to realise


The key word is stupid.

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Sat 2 May 09:09

<<The psychological problems of a lockdown are not really known- we are in strange new territory...>>



So true, sammer. I felt that I had handled the lockdown situation quite well up to now, but yesterday I had a terrible day.

I don't really know how or why it started, but as the day went on, I felt trapped and just got this awful feeling of melancholy overcoming me. I couldn't get people who I had lost in my life - family members and close friends who had passed away in recent years - out of my head. I got quite emotionally upset.

I guess we just have to accept that every now and again during this we are going to come face-to-face with our inner demons.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Sat 2 May 09:16

Hope today is better for you Oz. This is all much easier to deal with if you can find jobs to keep you busy and your mind occupied, imo.

Thankfully the weather is better here today so I'll be out later to get some sun on my bones. I need to do some exercise too....I needed lose a few pounds but I'm now 1.5 stones down in 5 weeks and not all of it is fat unfortunately.....I'm feeling rather weak!
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sat 2 May 09:22

Hang in there OzPar I too have wee spells where I think back to my family and pals some sad and some happy I am sure we all do

I try to read and garden and walk the dog to keep me occupied Probably drinking too much as well

I used to write a lot of poems especially during the winter nights and always tended to veer to the sad... me and my Pal Jim did a book between us

You keep the head up and take care
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Sat 2 May 09:49

I'm not usually one for long chatty phonecalls but I've found myself having three and four hour calls with pals who I'd normally just text, or see in the pub.

Zoom and Skype just frustrate me and the virtual nights out folk are doing just make me feel deflated when they're over - at least with the pub you get the walk home to reasjust.

Lots of relationships will be starting to suffer badly now too no doubt.

The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel the warmth.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Mon 4 May 09:58

Lockdown really needs to get eased soon. Figures in Scotland are relatively low. Society just needs to accept there is a new virus and take personal precautions against it.
If that means you choose to stay indoors fair enough. Make facemasks compulsory in shops for now.
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 Re: Caronavirus pt2