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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Mon 21 Sep 05:43
Yes, I know there is already a COVID thread. Well, four to be exact and the fourth has gone quiet of late. I suspect people have grown tired of constant exposure to the issue and little wonder; it has dragged us all down a very depressing path.
However, that doesn't preclude the need for us all to be ever-vigilant and to take whatever means necessary to avoid catching it.
A program has just been shown here in Oz that looks at the long-term effects on patients who catch the virus. It is becoming clear that even if you are relatively young and fit, the damage it does can be quite debilitating way into the future.
This clip isn't very long, but it tells the story...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9P3Dg8Q7W4
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Mon 21 Sep 08:57
Happy Monday to you all!
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Mon 21 Sep 09:25
Just keep on your toes, da no 1
:)
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Mon 21 Sep 09:50
Looks like you need to connect a VPN to Australia to watch it as its not available in the UK.
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Mon 21 Sep 10:31
Ah okay, LPF. I notice that the Daily Telegraph has a similar story in the UK today.
Basically the medical profession in Australia, the UK, and America is reporting that there are a number of long-term effects from Covid that are unexplained.
These include ongoing difficulty breathing six-months after recovery, tiredness, a loss of hair, and an inability to walk for more than a few minutes. This is in patients who were perfectly fit prior to the infection.
The simple message really is: Do everything you possibly can to avoid it and give any anti-maskers you see a right good kick in the baws...
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Mon 21 Sep 10:46
That better be a joke. There are very good reasons why some people can't wear a mask. Stupid thing to say.
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Mon 21 Sep 10:54
He said anti makers not people who can't wear masks. There is a difference.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: dave67
Date: Mon 21 Sep 10:56
Anti maskers aren't the same as people that have legitimate reasons for not wearing a mask
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Mon 21 Sep 11:07
If people are carrying evidence as to why they have a valid medical/psychological reason to not wear a mask that is fine.
However, if they are maskless and screaming in the face of policemen or innocent bystanders, then I say kick 'em very hard.
When next March, you "celebrate" six months lockdown, just like we are doing right now, your patience will be gone. You might just be a little less 'woke' and a bit more 'poke' in regard to this matter.
Honestly, this is no joking matter.
Not so long ago, you were berating me for having the temerity to suggest that a second wave would inevitably be coming your way.
Well, guess what, Mister???
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Mon 21 Sep 11:12
[Post Deleted] - Rude or abusive message
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Mon 21 Sep 11:24
I've never heard of the term "anti masker" - if that's what it means then I bow to your superior knowledge.
I really can't stand these internet "expert" posts though, they're all over Facebook as well. Some people seem to love telling us what to do & spreading the joy as they go.
And don't quote Noel Gallagher FFS! I like the mans' music but he's an absolute rocket.
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
Post Edited (Mon 21 Sep 11:26)
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Mon 21 Sep 11:52
The amount of people who can't wear a mask is tiny.
It's not so much about anti-maskers but people flouting the rules. What's hilariously awful is the Government now turning round and blaming people for doing the things they were insistent we all do. Yes, we must all get back down Pret for an overpriced sandwich. Michael Gove has shares in them. Yes, you must all go to Spoons as the owner is a good friend. Yes, you must all get back to the office because I've got a pension fund linked to some big property developers.
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Mon 21 Sep 12:21
With the greatest of respect though DA when you advocate that the games should be on with spectators on the main forum you voice an opinion that indicates you have a solid enough grasp of the risk factors involved with sufficient knowledge of the pandemic to make that determination.
In that regard you'd also have to apply the same "expert" critique to your own posts that you've done to OzPars. Or.. we could cut each other a bit of slack and appreciate that we all have different opinions, none of which are at expert level (unless we do have virologists etc on here) , and if you disagree with someone we can try and play the ball and not the man.
In fairness to Oz - the long term effects of Covid are completely unknown and we don't appear to have much data to quantify the long term effects on people that contract the virus. It could be really important in managing how the virus is handled. Some people point to low death rates as indicator that its safe to allow people to contract the virus as long as they aren't in the higher risk categories which may have damaging long term effects if people are going to be suffering well after getting rid of it.
Conversely you wouldn't want to lock down the world if the only people suffering long term effects were the ones in the news report (obviously not the case but im sure folk will get the point). There has to be some degree of proportionality in mitigating the risk and long term after affects need to be considered but they also need more data to be able to better quantify the risk.
A big problem with waiting for better data in scenarios like this is that by the time someone is showing as a long term sufferer - they are already suffering and you can't go back and change your risk management processes so there's a lot of educated guess work needed to balance keeping folk alive versus keeping the economy running versus allowing people to enjoy their hobbies.
FWIW I deliberately used a Gallagher as an example of an anti masker as the pair of them are indeed 🛎 ends.
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Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh
Date: Mon 21 Sep 12:50
I'm just a bit annoyed that this horrific mixture of politics, virology, epidemiology, and psychology is messing with people's concept of risk.
If you ask people in the street what the biggest health risk is at the moment, they will no doubt say that it is the coronavirus despite the fact that cancers have probably killed three times more already this year in the UK.
If you ask people what they can do to reduce the risks to their health, a lot of people will talk about social distancing and face masks when it would be better to give up smoking, reduce their drinking, or lose some weight.
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Mon 21 Sep 13:59
I'm sure you already know but at the risk of going all Shaggy: "It wasn't me".
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Mon 21 Sep 14:44
And it wasn't me either. I didn't find what you said all that offensive. I have been called much, much worse.
And in truth, I was probably a lot more offensive to you in a post that I wrote in the heat of the moment not so very long ago.
We come from different mindsets and for that reason, we are always likely to clash over our set of beliefs. Perhaps best you and I agree to disagree and leave it at that.
Misguided as it may be, at least we share a firm belief in the same football team.
:)
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Mon 21 Sep 14:53
Quote:
aaaaaaaaaargh, Mon 21 Sep 12:50
I'm just a bit annoyed that this horrific mixture of politics, virology, epidemiology, and psychology is messing with people's concept of risk.
If you ask people in the street what the biggest health risk is at the moment, they will no doubt say that it is the coronavirus despite the fact that cancers have probably killed three times more already this year in the UK.
If you ask people what they can do to reduce the risks to their health, a lot of people will talk about social distancing and face masks when it would be better to give up smoking, reduce their drinking, or lose some weight.
I think its really hard to make a direct decision between what it worse - cancer or Covid?
Some people would die from one and not the other and cancer isn't really associated with person to person transmission. We don't know how many people in the UK have had Covid compared to how many people could potentially contract it or even if people en masse could catch it again at some point and as a result we don't know how many people would be likely to die if we did nothing to manage the risk. Some pretty simple courses of action can help keep people from contracting and dying from Covid whereas cancer tends to require proper treatment.
If you judge the numbers purely on existing body counts then you miss the potential full risk of Covid (whatever that may be) whereas you have a fair idea of the rough number of cancer patients you are likely to treat as its a better understood illness.
I think a really important point though is that they make sure that anyone needing treatment for any disease gets it. It would rather defeat the object if you kept 1000 people alive from the threat of Covid but lost 2000 people because treatment for everything else stopped. I think there would has to be a way to ensure that essential services are still provided.
If we can get folk in pubs we must be able to devise a safe or safer system that meets other patients needs.
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Mon 21 Sep 14:57
I'm not disagreeing with your opinions on the virus as a whole. I just find the constant brow-beating (obviously not always by you) a bit tiresome, especially before 6am on a Monday morning. We know it CAN kill, we know it CAN harm you long-term. There are tens of millions of people who catch this virus that don't even know, the vast majority of those that do catch it fully recover. Any links to those articles to give a bit of balance?
The majority of people I come across are doing exactly as they're told when they're told. We watch the news & listen to radio. I personally don't need amateur lectures on .net & Facebook etc.
Think I'll avoid off topic from now on. I just can't be arsed with the public information broadcasts.
Aw the best to you Oz. I mean no harm, honestly.
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Mon 21 Sep 15:30
No worries, as we say down here. I guess I should point out the bleeding obvious that your Monday 6am is my Monday 9pm. Things have been happening while you have been asleep.
I appreciate that you may feel that it's a bit rough to have to face "amateur lectures" at 6 am, but by the same token it is no comfort to be assured by you that the "vast majority" of those that catch the virus fully recover.
But do they? That was the point of my OP.
A forum is for discussion: pros and cons, agree or disagree, take it or leave it.
Fair dos that you've chosen to leave it. I get your reasoning.
All the best.
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