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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 31 Jan 15:10
Great to see the police have lifted 4 lads for this. Destroyed a number of memorial benches by burning them along with some bins before vandalising cars on Chalmers Street. Jack O'Bryans was targeted a few weeks back too.
Whilst they'll hopefully learn from this, what's going on at home?
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Sun 31 Jan 15:13
Some time in the jail will give them plenty time to reflect
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
Post Edited (Sun 31 Jan 15:14)
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 31 Jan 15:22
They were 13, 14 and two 15 year olds. They'll be slap.on the wrist at most.
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Sun 31 Jan 15:29
Shakes head in disbelief
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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Topic Originator: 60yearapar
Date: Sun 31 Jan 15:32
Aye, a slap on the wrist then away boasting to their pals. Should make their parents pay for the damage.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 31 Jan 15:46
Wouldn't do any good if they don't care. Confiscate the things they enjoy instead.
Seems to be a constant issue with idiots in the bus station and under the Glen bridge. Genuinely can't work out why this can't be quickly tackled, especially just now when they shouldn't be out anyway.
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Sun 31 Jan 16:16
Then we need to restructure our minimum age law If they are old enough to do it they are old enough for remand of some description bring back borstals and the birch
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 31 Jan 17:05
Would it do any good though? I thought the research showed that marking people as criminals at a young age pretty much makes them criminals?
A better solution would be to enforce community service. Wouldn't want them taking away council jobs but maybe spend some time litter picking, graffiti cleaning and tidying up the town?
What I'm most interested in is what was going through their minds when they burnt the benches that all have messages of love on them. What were they thinking when they trashed a local independent businesses garden and plants? What were they thinking as they damaged peoples' cars? I get that things are crap and bit boring, but why do these things?
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Sun 31 Jan 17:28
Quote:
Buspasspar, Sun 31 Jan 16:16
Then we need to restructure our minimum age law If they are old enough to do it they are old enough for remand of some description bring back borstals and the birch
Are you aware that sometimes innocent people are found guilty of something they didn't do?
Are you happy that an innocent child could end up being birched just to satisfy your need for blood.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sun 31 Jan 17:30
What if they refused to do the community service though?
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: twin par
Date: Sun 31 Jan 18:30
They have no respect, for themselves, their parents,or the police.Believe me folks,I work with kids like that.There are no consequences,and that's the problem.And I will add to that,some parents, could not give a toss,what their kids are up to.Parents in dalgety bay,in some of the affluent areas,chuck their kids money,and tell them to do one,get out our faces.
Post Edited (Sun 31 Jan 19:02)
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Topic Originator: Pars_1986
Date: Sun 31 Jan 18:35
Tesco is just as bad. But its easy for them to go there as its free WiFi and a roof over there heads hanging around in that car park with the roof. Had nephews hang around there when they were younger and they both got slapped about just for going there. Didn't matter how much the said they never got involved which know they did get involved one of them anyway more than most they still got the brunt of it when they arrived home. Flea with the craws you get shot with the carws as my old Di would say to us.
Post Edited (Sun 31 Jan 18:40)
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Topic Originator: parfection
Date: Mon 1 Feb 19:02
Are you happy that an innocent child could end up being birched just to satisfy your need for blood.
I don’t think Buspasspar has “a need for blood”. He’s just angry, and justifiably so, about the wanton damage caused by these lads. That said, I’m a long way off calling for corporal punishment. Problem is, people will ask what to do instead. In this instance it would be good if the lads involved could be made to come face to face with the loved ones who arranged these memorial benches. They’d have to face up to the real hurt and distress they’ve caused - maybe they could learn about the lives of the folks whom the benches commemorate. If they have to face some raging anger too then so be it. There might be a more positive outcome than the hurt and lasting resentment caused by blind physical retribution.
I’m not making any case for the idiots who carried out the vandalism, but I’d love to hear their explanation as to why they did it. That would also be a mandatory part of their rehab / punishment. I’d aim to make things as awkward and uncomfortable as possible for them - within humane limits.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Mon 1 Feb 19:17
I think speaking to the affected families may help. The issue with a lot of young lads is they can't suitably express their feelings. It's like the drivers who lose the plot when you toot them for a dangerous manoeuvre. They're not really angry at you. They're embarassed and angry that you've pointed out their mistake. That embarassment comes out as anger.
Maybe these lads are already getting knocked about at home. Something has clearly gone wrong somewhere. It could be that they've just fallen in with a bad lad or lads and they're trying to fit in.
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Tue 2 Feb 00:42
There is a solution to this. It`s Orwellian and I hate the idea, but deep down I suspect that it is an inevitable route that we as society will take.
The Chinese already are employing the system of positive and negative points for their population. I can`t fully remember all the details, but it is very much like a script from Black Mirror.
I think everyone starts with a 100 points and you lose points according to the seriousness of your offence. Alternatively, you can gain credit points by doing something good for your society.
The lower your points, the less access you get to the privileges of society.
I would imagine that for kids in their early/mid teens, like those in the Glen, actively losing or restricting their access to phones, the internet and social media would be the most painful and effective punishment.
We are already using face and fingerprint ID, so how easy would it be to halt someone`s access? Very easy indeed.
The same could apply to their parents if they were judged in any way culpable for their kids` behaviour.
This sort of thing is going on today in China. How long do you think before it is happening where you live?
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Topic Originator: desparado
Date: Tue 2 Feb 21:34
Drink and drugs probably. I used to stay in Chalmers St and many moons ago I was lying in bed and heard some louts tipping the wheelie bins over. I lost the plot and ran outside and chased one of them into Grieve St and found him cowering behind a hedge. I fully intended to March him back round the corner and make him pick up all my rubbish.....but decided against it as he was only about 15 and sh****g himself.
They need punished though. Community service scraping chewing gum off the High St, with a sign on their back explaining why they are there would do nicely. Named and shamed.
The goody two shoes in society would no doubt argue that you can’t treat someone like that.......
I used to do some daft things when I was young but would never have dreamt of doing anything these scum balls did.
What an opportunity we missed in 2014.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Wed 3 Feb 10:53
"Parents in dalgety bay,in some of the affluent areas,chuck their kids money,and tell them to do one,get out our face."
Therein lies a major part of the problem.
An experienced youth officer I worked beside, along with a colleague, did a clandestine "stakeout" on a well know local mid teens weekend drinking den.
They clocked parents dropping them off with their carry outs before driving off.
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Topic Originator: Pars_1986
Date: Wed 3 Feb 11:44
As I mentioned further up the post my nephews were no saints by any means and they got dealt with when found out. But what I found out and annoyed me was the so called better off kids from the so called better areas like your dalgety bay duloch etc it was always there parents who had there heads up in the clouds saying it was never there kids causing the bother when most of them actually came from said areas
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 3 Feb 18:10
It's nothing new. The worst behaved kids I experienced at school had one thing in common - crap parents. It didn't matter where they were on the economic scale.
Some kids can come from the best backgrounds in the world and fall in with a bad crowd but the difference is they'll get grief off their parents.
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Topic Originator: MikeyLeonard
Date: Thu 4 Feb 00:00
Quote:
jake89, Wed 3 Feb 18:10
It's nothing new. The worst behaved kids I experienced at school had one thing in common - crap parents. It didn't matter where they were on the economic scale.
That's some statement that Jake. Did you meet all of those parents ? I mean ALL of them ?
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Topic Originator: twin par
Date: Thu 4 Feb 00:24
It only takes ,small minority, of parents,who don't give a toss,with their feral off spring,to cause havoc in the community. My dad was in the polis,from the sixties ,and had seen it all.One bad family in a street can cause havoc.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 4 Feb 00:30
The ones "I experienced" I did. Some because they lived near me, others through parents evening and some through going to parties at their houses (yes, even I could be in with the naughty kids).
When I was younger a lot of parents from all backgrounds would buy booze for their kids. Out of sight, out of mind. We'd then hear the tales back in school about how such and such did this or someone whitied. This wasn't limited to booze. Loads with cash were buying weed. It seems kids have gone further these days given tales in recent times about kids popping Es in school.
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Topic Originator: widtink
Date: Thu 4 Feb 00:42
There was plenty of drugs around even at high school when I was there 83 til 87.
But no social media back then so you didn't read about it as much as you do today.
Admin
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Topic Originator: PARrot
Date: Thu 4 Feb 00:57
I have 3 brothers and a sister who were raised by the same parents....well parent.
Totally different individuals, totally different achievements.
Im pleading the 5th on detail lol.
Its not just the parents. Some really good parents try hard but still get what they get.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Thu 4 Feb 16:00
Quote:
jake89, Wed 3 Feb 18:10
It's nothing new. The worst behaved kids I experienced at school had one thing in common - crap parents. It didn't matter where they were on the economic scale.
Some kids can come from the best backgrounds in the world and fall in with a bad crowd but the difference is they'll get grief off their parents.
There was a time I would have been in complete agreement with you, Jake, but now I have to say that that's quite a sweeping generalisation. When I used to wear my PT Pupil Support hat (Guidance Teacher in old money) I was responsible for the pastoral care of approx 300 pupils. The nature of my remit meant that I often had to deal with their parents or carers. Some of them were as you describe, but others were very conscientious and doing their best to bring up incorrigible, rebellious teenagers. I'm guessing you're not at that stage of life yet, or like me, you've been lucky and blessed with kids who have never indulged in anti social behaviour. I even taught siblings who were polar opposites, in spite of being brought up in the same way by the same parents.
I've concluded that their peers exert much more influence on these kids than their parents. A discussion involving a well behaved lad and his rebellious little sister went like this:-
Girl - Your pals are all really boring.
Boy - Aye, and your pals are all idiots!
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 4 Feb 18:38
Agree GG and Parrot, it's just in my experience and is a definite generalisation. Always exceptions but even the same parents don't mean the same upbringing. My older sibling definitely has a stricter upbringing than I did! Teachers used to say to my wife's sister "why can't you be more like your sister?" 😂
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Thu 4 Feb 20:04
I even taught siblings who were polar opposites, in spite of being brought up in the same way by the same parents.
Never a truer word G.G. we have first hand experience of that
Two Nieces One making a living with her own cafe and hard work... the other in and out of gaol for drug related and thieving offences Same Mum and Dad same upbringing just different mindset :(
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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