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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Mon 8 Feb 12:00
I just caught the tail end of a discussion on RS, where a group whose name I didn't catch, is claiming that pupils have lost so much learning time that there needs to be a radical rethink about getting them back up to speed across all years. They suggest that this could be achieved by increasing the length of the school day and reducing the length of the summer holidays.
Your thoughts, please.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Mon 8 Feb 12:17
Not a bad idea.
Can go back to normal as soon as they are caught up.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Mon 8 Feb 12:17
School budgets are already squeezed tight, along with all council budgets I suppose, and before the pandemic discussions and proposals to cut the school working week were already well under away. If it is to be increased then us taxpayers will need to be prepared to dip our hands into our pockets. Not that I`m necessarily against that but the nhs budget will also need to be drastically increased to help us start to clear and deal with the backlog of health treatments that have occurred during this crisis.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Mon 8 Feb 13:10
This idea has been floated for a few weeks by government spokesmen at Westminster. However the idea that a pupil can ‘catch up’ by staying at school longer has all the hallmarks of ‘Britannia Unchained’ logic. Anyone who ever worked with children, whether from five years old to eighteen years old, would recognise problems which will arise in terms of focus and motivation. It would be like Stevie Crawford adding on extra hours to the Pars training regime in order for them to play better: it is just as likely to drain energy from the players and encourage them go through the motions.
School pupils have had to make a great sacrifice during lockdown. The loss of adult guidance, social interaction and gradual development of thinking during lockdown cannot unfortunately be recovered. It is a serious loss I am sure and one that we will still be measuring and trying to alleviate in the years ahead. Expecting them to put in compulsory extra hours seems heartless to me and, considering where this idea is coming from, seems more about extending childcare provision for working parents than it does the education of school pupils.
sammer
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Mon 8 Feb 13:35
Finland has the most successful schools system on the planet by most methods and they don't feel the need to pressure five year-olds to "catch up"
In fact five and six year olds don't even go to school because, from an education perspective, it is actually damaging.
When seven year olds do start school,things proceed at the child's pace with a fucus on play and socialisation. Class sizes are rarely over 12 or 13 at those ages and teachers are paid appropriately for the job.
Our early years school system is set up to allow parents to go to work as soon as possible with the kids' requirements a secondary consideration if they are lucky.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Mon 8 Feb 15:42
A few observations from my own personal experience :-
As a former HS teacher, I noted that pupils produced their best work in the mornings, but tended to lose their focus more and more during the day, so that by the time we got to last period, many became restless and distracted. To combat this, we voted to change the structure of the school day, so that we had an extra morning period and a later lunch hour. Having a shorter pm, did improve matters a little. I also observed that pupils were difficult to engage with on hot, sunny days, frequently complaining that it was too hot and they were too tired to work. Like most schools built in the 60s and 70s, my school was built almost entirely of glass, so that when the sun shines, it becomes a giant greenhouse.
Italian children start school around the age of 6. Intake is by calendar year every September. Those born later in the year start before their 6th birthday. When I was a child, new intakes were for children aged 7 or more on 1st Mon in Oct. I was born in February and my family emigrated to Scotland in the summer after my 7th birthday, without having started school. I joined Aberdour PS in August, aged 7.5 years, with no English whatsoever. I spent approx 6 months at each stage and by the time I was in P6 I'd managed to master the language and to catch up with my peers.
Now, just in case any of you think I'm some kind of genius, I taught a Polish lad who moved to Scotland aged 11, with no English. After 1 year in PS, he moved to high school, sat 5 Highers and went to Dundee to study for a Law degree. Now that really is exceptional but it suggests that children of PS age should be able to make up for the teaching they've missed during the past year, even if it may take several years. Bear in mind that they have had some schooling during this pandemic.
I can't help but conclude that the proposals have been formulated by people who have never taught and have little or no understanding of the psychology of school age children. Any attempt to implement these well intentioned proposals would be counter productive, imo.
Post Edited (Mon 08 Feb 16:52)
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Mon 8 Feb 15:59
I withdraw the comment I made earlier. You have all made good points and I was wrong about it being a good idea. It actually sounds like a bad idea.
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Mon 8 Feb 17:02
My daughter's education through this has been a disgrace, teachers should be hanging their heads in shame.
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Mon 8 Feb 17:31
I can hardly remember high school but I'm sure it was 4 periods in the morning and 2 in the afternoon. It worked well as you'd know after lunch you just had 2 classes to go before hometime.
Maybe reduce the summer holidays slightly but I'm not sure the benefit of working through.
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Mon 8 Feb 18:41
sadindiefreak,
It`s maybe not a bad idea in itself. Lengthening the school day would almost certainly be counter productive, especially for younger pupils. But the idea of getting children back into the routine of school life would surely be positive, and if that meant working slightly longer than normal into the summer and paying back the lost holidays over the following year then I think that could be acceptable. I doubt if many families have summer holidays booked under the present conditions.
GG Riva`s point about temperatures and air flow inside classrooms is a topic in its own right. The Victorians and Edwardians built schools from stone and placed the windows up higher to let in light- McLean School in Baldridgeburn is still an example of that I think. Schools were built to last. The post war schools- and from photos I have seen of new millennium schools in Fife- are potential greenhouses as he said.
sammer
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Topic Originator: fcda
Date: Mon 8 Feb 18:59
Quote:
GG Riva, Mon 8 Feb 15:42
I taught a Polish lad who moved to Scotland aged 11, with no English. After 1 year in PS, he moved to high school, sat 5 Highers and went to Dundee to study for a Law degree.
No bad for a 12 year old. 😜
I hope they're flexible with this. PS pupils and maybe 1st and 2nd year I think would be able to catch up, but beyond that it would be harder, since they have approaching deadlines for exams. It probably needs to be a balance between extending the school year and reducing the curriculum.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Mon 8 Feb 22:04
Quote:
Rastapari, Mon 08 Feb 17:02
My daughter's education through this has been a disgrace, teachers should be hanging their heads in shame.
Which school ?
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Tue 9 Feb 09:47
I should have added that a teacher from an Edinburgh school joined the discussion on RS, yesterday. She has taken a P2 class for several years and followed the City Council advice to concentrate only on the Core subjects; Literacy, Numeracy and Health & Wellbeing when pupils returned in August. The teacher informed that by doing this her class had completely caught up the work they'd missed from 23rd March to the end of June and were exactly where they should be before Christmas.
The spokesman for the group proposing an extension to the school day and a reduction of the school summer holidays, dismissed her claim that the children had not been disadvantaged by the 3 month closure from last March as "complete nonsense."
I suppose he was better placed to make such a professional judgement?
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis
Date: Tue 9 Feb 11:33
Everyone has an opinion on education. And lots of people feel important enough to voice that opinion - regardless of whether they are qualified enough to do so.
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I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Tue 9 Feb 11:56
Listening to friends and relatives - it sounds as if kids are managing to keep up to speed with school work, at least as much as is possible in these trying times.
Not an ideal scenario of course, however they are also suffering from the lack of normal social interaction with their peers, which is so important for their development.
No organised sport, extra curricular activities etc. etc.
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Tue 9 Feb 12:14
Quote:
veteraneastender, Tue 9 Feb 11:56
Listening to friends and relatives - it sounds as if kids are managing to keep up to speed with school work, at least as much as is possible in these trying times.
Not an ideal scenario of course, however they are also suffering from the lack of normal social interaction with their peers, which is so important for their development.
No organised sport, extra curricular activities etc. etc.
The school that my daughter attends is very very poor. There is no video discussions. No meetings. There is a pile of work put up every day by teachers. My daughter sits here and does all the work - as she did in previous lockdown. She submits her work daily. Only about half of her in teachers even acknowledge the work.
I have written to the school asking for feedback on her work several times which eventually gets a response.
Fortunately my daughter is quite engaged but of your child isn't then the lack if engagement from teachers must be soul destroying.
Post Edited (Tue 09 Feb 12:15)
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Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Tue 9 Feb 13:25
Quote:
moviescot, Tue 09 Feb 12:14
Quote:
veteraneastender, Tue 9 Feb 11:56
Listening to friends and relatives - it sounds as if kids are managing to keep up to speed with school work, at least as much as is possible in these trying times.
Not an ideal scenario of course, however they are also suffering from the lack of normal social interaction with their peers, which is so important for their development.
No organised sport, extra curricular activities etc. etc.
The school that my daughter attends is very very poor. There is no video discussions. No meetings. There is a pile of work put up every day by teachers. My daughter sits here and does all the work - as she did in previous lockdown. She submits her work daily. Only about half of her in teachers even acknowledge the work.
I have written to the school asking for feedback on her work several times which eventually gets a response.
Fortunately my daughter is quite engaged but of your child isn't then the lack if engagement from teachers must be soul destroying.
Post Edited (Tue 09 Feb 12:15)
Sadly moviescot I know of one such teacher who is a head of a department and has spent much of lockdown time walking dogs and spending with family rather than teaching. It really angers me that this is allowed to happen. It fails on all levels, however for every teacher like that I really hope for a good teacher doing everything in their power to support kids or making a difference to their lives.
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Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis
Date: Tue 9 Feb 13:33
Most teachers I know, which is a fair few, are busting a gut to prepare work, provide online support, provide live lessons, make videos etc, etc.
Also, extremely impressed by the efforts of the school my kids go to.
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I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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Topic Originator: Mr Mac
Date: Tue 9 Feb 14:55
Quote:
DA-go Par Adonis, Tue 9 Feb 13:33
Most teachers I know, which is a fair few, are busting a gut to prepare work, provide online support, provide live lessons, make videos etc, etc.
Also, extremely impressed by the efforts of the school my kids go to.
I'd agree with this, I'm chair of our Parent Council so would definitely hear about perceived failings. I know our staff have been hard at it throughout.
Many (not all I hasten to add!) of those I see complaining on social media about it all being too much work appear to be those who believed the kids weren't getting enough work prior to the summer break......
Post Edited (Tue 09 Feb 19:42)
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Tue 9 Feb 16:52
Quote:
DA-go Par Adonis, Tue 9 Feb 13:33
Most teachers I know, which is a fair few, are busting a gut to prepare work, provide online support, provide live lessons, make videos etc, etc.
Also, extremely impressed by the efforts of the school my kids go to.
And most teachers act as if they're somehow indispensable and will turn up for work when they're unwell or road conditions are difficult. I know of one teacher who lives in Falkirk, who dug her car out at 7 am and arrived at her Fife PS at 8.45, only to be informed that it was closed.
It would have been quite easy for her to phone and say she was snowed in and couldn't make it. Teachers are entitled to do that, but in such cases they should walk to the nearest school.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: istvan kozma
Date: Tue 9 Feb 18:25
Quote:
GG Riva, Mon 8 Feb 12:00
I just caught the tail end of a discussion on RS, where a group whose name I didn't catch, is claiming that pupils have lost so much learning time that there needs to be a radical rethink about getting them back up to speed across all years. They suggest that this could be achieved by increasing the length of the school day and reducing the length of the summer holidays.
Your thoughts, please.
That's not a good idea at all. How to annoy the school kids and teachers.
KOZMA
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Topic Originator: JTH123
Date: Tue 9 Feb 18:56
Heard a similar tale this morning GG. A teaching asst from Kelty dug her car out and struggled in to a Dunfermline primary school only to be told to go home as the child she looks after had been told not to come in.
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Topic Originator: shrek par
Date: Tue 9 Feb 19:02
Finding the online from St C's to be dumped on in a big list, marking when they can be arsed and as little contact with the kids as they can get away with. p*** poor tbh. New rector not off to a great start. But couldn't be any worse than last one who couldn't communicate clearly, speak publicly or deal with issues . Failed my lad badly and demanded to know where he was off to after he had left to help with their "figures" when he left in December 19. Guidance and pupil support risible ,only interested in looking good, not actually helping the pupils IMHO.
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Tue 9 Feb 19:34
Quote:
DA-go Par Adonis, Tue 9 Feb 13:33
Most teachers I know, which is a fair few, are busting a gut to prepare work, provide online support, provide live lessons, make videos etc, etc.
Also, extremely impressed by the efforts of the school my kids go to.
Lucky you. Don't see any evidence of this up here in Aberdeen. Bloody awful.
Another day. Modern studies today. On Google classroom. My daughter checks it out. There is a link to access the work. She clicks and is told access is denied. She sends message to teacher followed by several of her friends to advise teacher. That was at 11:00 this morning. Still waiting for a reply.
English work set up by another teacher. In she goes only to find out the document is blank. Again still waiting for the teacher to respond to several messages from pupils.
Maths work yesterday. 100 questions - algebra and angles. To be back by Wednesday. No guidance on how to do it and when she asked she got zero response. Fortunately Maths is one of the subjects I can help with so we sat down and did half today. We'll do the rest tomorrow.
For balance the Spanish teacher is excellent.
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Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Tue 9 Feb 20:38
Quote:
moviescot, Tue 09 Feb 19:34
Quote:
DA-go Par Adonis, Tue 9 Feb 13:33
Most teachers I know, which is a fair few, are busting a gut to prepare work, provide online support, provide live lessons, make videos etc, etc.
Also, extremely impressed by the efforts of the school my kids go to.
Lucky you. Don't see any evidence of this up here in Aberdeen. Bloody awful.
Another day. Modern studies today. On Google classroom. My daughter checks it out. There is a link to access the work. She clicks and is told access is denied. She sends message to teacher followed by several of her friends to advise teacher. That was at 11:00 this morning. Still waiting for a reply.
English work set up by another teacher. In she goes only to find out the document is blank. Again still waiting for the teacher to respond to several messages from pupils.
Maths work yesterday. 100 questions - algebra and angles. To be back by Wednesday. No guidance on how to do it and when she asked she got zero response. Fortunately Maths is one of the subjects I can help with so we sat down and did half today. We'll do the rest tomorrow.
For balance the Spanish teacher is excellent.
And interestingly enough the person I know lives in Aberdeenshire. Although from the details on here he sounds like more of an anomaly than the norm. It was building snowmen today....
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Tue 9 Feb 21:19
Quote:
parsmad68, Tue 9 Feb 20:38
Quote:
moviescot, Tue 09 Feb 19:34
Quote:
DA-go Par Adonis, Tue 9 Feb 13:33
Most teachers I know, which is a fair few, are busting a gut to prepare work, provide online support, provide live lessons, make videos etc, etc.
Also, extremely impressed by the efforts of the school my kids go to.
Lucky you. Don't see any evidence of this up here in Aberdeen. Bloody awful.
Another day. Modern studies today. On Google classroom. My daughter checks it out. There is a link to access the work. She clicks and is told access is denied. She sends message to teacher followed by several of her friends to advise teacher. That was at 11:00 this morning. Still waiting for a reply.
English work set up by another teacher. In she goes only to find out the document is blank. Again still waiting for the teacher to respond to several messages from pupils.
Maths work yesterday. 100 questions - algebra and angles. To be back by Wednesday. No guidance on how to do it and when she asked she got zero response. Fortunately Maths is one of the subjects I can help with so we sat down and did half today. We'll do the rest tomorrow.
For balance the Spanish teacher is excellent.
And interestingly enough the person I know lives in Aberdeenshire. Although from the details on here he sounds like more of an anomaly than the norm. It was building snowmen today....
Defo not an anomaly. Out of about 10 teachers I would give pass marks to about 3.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Wed 10 Feb 07:00
Quote:
shrek par, Tue 9 Feb 19:02
Finding the online from St C's to be dumped on in a big list, marking when they can be arsed and as little contact with the kids as they can get away with. p*** poor tbh. New rector not off to a great start. But couldn't be any worse than last one who couldn't communicate clearly, speak publicly or deal with issues . Failed my lad badly and demanded to know where he was off to after he had left to help with their "figures" when he left in December 19. Guidance and pupil support risible ,only interested in looking good, not actually helping the pupils IMHO.
I'm sorry to read about your dissatisfaction with St Columba's, shrek. I cannot comment on the recently departed Rector, as I retired before he was appointed some 5 years ago, but I can assure you that the new Head, Mr McGee, is a very popular appointment among the staff who remember him from a previous spell in the school when he was a Depute Rector. I worked with Mr McGee for about 8 years. He demanded high standards from staff and pupils. He was strict, but fair and everyone in the school, pupils, teachers and non teaching staff, as well as parents, were very positive towards him and sad to see him leave St Columba's to become Rector of St Augustine's in Edinburgh, where he was also held in high regard.
I don't know why he has come back to St Columba's in a sideways move, but I do know that he really enjoyed his previous time there. Perhaps after 7 or 8 years at St Augustine's, he wanted a fresh challenge? If standards have slipped at St Columba's, as you suggest, I'm sure Mr McGee will drive them up again, with his enthusiasm and positivity. Any criticism of him at this time is very harsh, he's only been in the school a few weeks and the lockdown restrictions are an added complication. These are very challenging times for all of us, but especially for those in our schools. Hopefully, pupils will be allowed to go back soon and it's not too late to salvage your boy's education, as well as those of his fellow pupils.
Have you considered contacting the school regarding your concerns? It may allow any perceived failings you have to be addressed sooner rather than later. I would try phoning, initially and if you don't get any joy, send an email laying out your concerns to the generic mailbox, asking that it be forwarded to Mr McGee. I'm sure he'll act on it.
Not your average Sunday League player.
Post Edited (Wed 10 Feb 07:04)
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Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis
Date: Wed 10 Feb 14:14
There`s over half a million people working as school teachers in the UK. Fair to say, you`ll get a broad spectrum of abilities and attitudes. Those will only be exacerbated in the current climate.
From my experience, there are more who are busting a gut than not, but it`s daft to suggest that there won`t be some seeing this as an opportunity to do the bare minimum.
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I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Wed 10 Feb 15:45
Quote:
DA-go Par Adonis, Wed 10 Feb 14:14
There`s over half a million people working as school teachers in the UK. Fair to say, you`ll get a broad spectrum of abilities and attitudes. Those will only be exacerbated in the current climate.
From my experience, there are more who are busting a gut than not, but it`s daft to suggest that there won`t be some seeing this as an opportunity to do the bare minimum.
Most of Aberdeen by all accounts
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 10 Feb 17:34
Our son's school were poor before summer but really good this time round. It's a different teacher and obviously the schools are better prepared now. The key thing here is that everyone is outside their comfort zone. Teachers are used to classroom environments, parents aren't used to being teachers, kids are used to being sat around their pals.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Thu 11 Feb 07:25
``Our son`s school were poor before summer but really good this time round. It`s a different teacher and obviously the schools are better prepared now. The key thing here is that everyone is outside their comfort zone. Teachers are used to classroom environments, parents aren`t used to being teachers, kids are used to being sat around their pals.``
Far too rational and sensible for dotnet, Jake. Too many people basing their opinions of the whole teaching profession based on their own narrow experience.
My grandkids are being sent a great variety of fun resources to work on at home, for the duration of every school day, but they find it hard to focus on it and are easily distracted, precisely because they`re not in their school environment, as they both enjoy school normally.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Thu 11 Feb 08:23
Quote:
GG Riva, Thu 11 Feb 07:25
``Our son`s school were poor before summer but really good this time round. It`s a different teacher and obviously the schools are better prepared now. The key thing here is that everyone is outside their comfort zone. Teachers are used to classroom environments, parents aren`t used to being teachers, kids are used to being sat around their pals.``
Far too rational and sensible for dotnet, Jake. Too many people basing their opinions of the whole teaching profession based on their own narrow experience.
My grandkids are being sent a great variety of fun resources to work on at home, for the duration of every school day, but they find it hard to focus on it and are easily distracted, precisely because they`re not in their school environment, as they both enjoy school normally.
I'm not saying anything on my narrow experience. My daughter is in S2. She is in constant communication with friends in her year and a few in higher and lower years.
They all say the same. I've contacted the school on several occasions to find out why engagement is so bad. Still don't understand it.
We have friends at other schools in Aberdeen and they are all saying much the same.
Home schooling is rubbish and teachers do not know how to work half the systems.
Yesterday's schooling. Maths teacher sends out a 42 page pdf. A video is also attached showing pupils what to do. Pupils are not expected to complete 42 pages but the teacher did not tell pupils which questions to complete. My daughter and half her class send private messages to teacher asking which questions they have to do. They're all still awaiting an answer.
I checked when this teacher posted and it was 8:36. So looks to me as if she's posted then went off to play in the snow.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Thu 11 Feb 10:19
Quote:
moviescot, Thu 11 Feb 08:23
I'm not saying anything on my narrow experience. My daughter is in S2. She is in constant communication with friends in her year and a few in higher and lower years.
They all say the same. I've contacted the school on several occasions to find out why engagement is so bad. Still don't understand it.
We have friends at other schools in Aberdeen and they are all saying much the same.
Home schooling is rubbish and teachers do not know how to work half the systems.
Yesterday's schooling. Maths teacher sends out a 42 page pdf. A video is also attached showing pupils what to do. Pupils are not expected to complete 42 pages but the teacher did not tell pupils which questions to complete. My daughter and half her class send private messages to teacher asking which questions they have to do. They're all still awaiting an answer.
I checked when this teacher posted and it was 8:36. So looks to me as if she's posted then went off to play in the snow.
I get your frustration, moviescot. What you describe does sound chaotic and unsatisfactory and I don't excuse it in any shape or form, but we're still talking about a small number of schools in Aberdeenshire. It's quite a quantum leap to then tar every other teacher in Scotland with the same brush. I'm particularly at a loss in trying to understand why the Maths teacher didn't get back to her pupils - there may be a perfectly good explanation for it, otherwise it's not very professional of her.
Perhaps you should contact the school and voice your legitimate concerns directly? There's a far better chance that that would help sort something out for your daughter than venting your frustration on here.
I worked as a teacher in different schools for a total of 37 years and found the vast majority of my colleagues to be dedicated professionals putting in many extra, unpaid hours before and after school and also at home. When I retired, I became a founder member of the Pars School Engagement Programme, organising the Pars Tackle Health initiative. This involves players visiting children in local primary schools to reinforce the learning outcomes in the Health & Wellbeing curriculum. In the 6 years it's been running, we've visited hundreds of classes in West Fife primary schools. I've never failed to be impressed at how knowledgeable the children are on this topic, which reflects really well on their teachers. To question their integrity is well wide of the mark.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Thu 11 Feb 12:37
I have been on to the school twice this week, three times last week and innumerable times since January. It makes no difference.
It's only 12.27 and so far this morning this is how it has gone.
1) video to watch for modern studies class - access restricted. Request to access. Ignored so far.
2) answer sheet for the above is not editable anyway. Edit requested - ignored.
3) history. Video - restricted. Answer sheet not editable. Teacher asked to remove restriction. Ignored.
4) maths. 42 page of questions. Request to teacher to ask which questions she requires. Ignored.
5) English. Video restricted and document not editable. Request to teacher - ignored.
Daughter is very stressed out. She just wants to get her work done and can't.
I am at the point of writing to the school and telling them that she will not be doing any further work until she is back in school.
Home working is rubbish and does not work. Thank goodness she does not have exams to prepare for this year.
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Topic Originator: parforthecourse
Date: Thu 11 Feb 12:47
Quote:
moviescot, Thu 11 Feb 12:37
I have been on to the school twice this week, three times last week and innumerable times since January. It makes no difference.
It's only 12.27 and so far this morning this is how it has gone.
1) video to watch for modern studies class - access restricted. Request to access. Ignored so far.
2) answer sheet for the above is not editable anyway. Edit requested - ignored.
3) history. Video - restricted. Answer sheet not editable. Teacher asked to remove restriction. Ignored.
4) maths. 42 page of questions. Request to teacher to ask which questions she requires. Ignored.
5) English. Video restricted and document not editable. Request to teacher - ignored.
Daughter is very stressed out. She just wants to get her work done and can't.
I am at the point of writing to the school and telling them that she will not be doing any further work until she is back in school.
Home working is rubbish and does not work. Thank goodness she does not have exams to prepare for this year.
Sounds terrible.
Can only says Dunfermline High is better for my two kids.
Kids submit written work via the sachel one app, and get written feedback pretty quickly, including marked work being available for them to see on the app.
Live lessons are happening sometimes, more so at least than in the previous lockdowns.
We have had to pay someone to remotely tutor my son in chemistry as he's toiling without a real classroom teacher to support him.
Wife is a teacher, constantly doing live lessons, marking, setting written work, sorting problems in Microsoft teams, etc.
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Topic Originator: P
Date: Thu 11 Feb 12:48
I would lose my **** at that so fair play to you Moviescot I would be inclined to write to the school documenting the inaction as you have and including your MSP asking for action
Post Edited (Thu 11 Feb 12:51)
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Thu 11 Feb 13:19
Quote:
P, Thu 11 Feb 12:48
I would lose my **** at that so fair play to you Moviescot I would be inclined to write to the school documenting the inaction as you have and including your MSP asking for action
I have a child sitting beside me in tears because she can't do her work. The thing is it's just not pc to criticise teachers.
I think most of the stuff today is just teachers who clearly do not understand the system they are using.
Since I originally posted two of the teachers have come back, apologised and thanked her for pointing it out.
Problem now is she is behind today with her work.
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Topic Originator: Mr Mac
Date: Thu 11 Feb 13:21
Moviescot, if you can, get in touch with the Parent Council; if it's a trend they should be all over it with the school. Also consider contacting the Education Department (find email for Director of Education) and your Councillor.
In my kids school area of Falkirk the Department and Councillors are very helpful when it comes to Education.
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Thu 11 Feb 13:23
Quote:
P, Thu 11 Feb 12:48
I would lose my **** at that so fair play to you Moviescot I would be inclined to write to the school documenting the inaction as you have and including your MSP asking for action
I wrote to the school during the previous lockdown detailing everything they did wrong. I was then chosen by the school to comment in a survey about how lockdown learning had been. I was asked to provide details how they could improve.
I was keen for them to do more live classrooms but there have been none done at all this year.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Thu 11 Feb 14:40
Quote:
moviescot, Thu 11 Feb 12:37
I have been on to the school twice this week, three times last week and innumerable times since January. It makes no difference.
It's only 12.27 and so far this morning this is how it has gone.
1) video to watch for modern studies class - access restricted. Request to access. Ignored so far.
2) answer sheet for the above is not editable anyway. Edit requested - ignored.
3) history. Video - restricted. Answer sheet not editable. Teacher asked to remove restriction. Ignored.
4) maths. 42 page of questions. Request to teacher to ask which questions she requires. Ignored.
5) English. Video restricted and document not editable. Request to teacher - ignored.
Daughter is very stressed out. She just wants to get her work done and can't.
I am at the point of writing to the school and telling them that she will not be doing any further work until she is back in school.
Home working is rubbish and does not work. Thank goodness she does not have exams to prepare for this year.
Well, I'm certainly not going to defend the indefensible. The allegations you make amount to a catalogue of failure by your child's school and it's to your eternal credit that you haven't named and shamed it - not that I'm suggesting that you do it. I think you should bring it to the Head's attention in the first instance and give him/her the chance to sort it out rather than involve the Director of Education or your MP.
Best of luck with that.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Thu 11 Feb 14:59
Quote:
GG Riva, Thu 11 Feb 14:40
Quote:
moviescot, Thu 11 Feb 12:37
I have been on to the school twice this week, three times last week and innumerable times since January. It makes no difference.
It's only 12.27 and so far this morning this is how it has gone.
1) video to watch for modern studies class - access restricted. Request to access. Ignored so far.
2) answer sheet for the above is not editable anyway. Edit requested - ignored.
3) history. Video - restricted. Answer sheet not editable. Teacher asked to remove restriction. Ignored.
4) maths. 42 page of questions. Request to teacher to ask which questions she requires. Ignored.
5) English. Video restricted and document not editable. Request to teacher - ignored.
Daughter is very stressed out. She just wants to get her work done and can't.
I am at the point of writing to the school and telling them that she will not be doing any further work until she is back in school.
Home working is rubbish and does not work. Thank goodness she does not have exams to prepare for this year.
Well, I'm certainly not going to defend the indefensible. The allegations you make amount to a catalogue of failure by your child's school and it's to your eternal credit that you haven't named and shamed it - not that I'm suggesting that you do it. I think you should bring it to the Head's attention in the first instance and give him/her the chance to sort it out rather than involve the Director of Education or your MP.
Best of luck with that.
You think I haven't already been to the head?
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Thu 11 Feb 15:04
Quote:
Mr Mac, Thu 11 Feb 13:21
Moviescot, if you can, get in touch with the Parent Council; if it's a trend they should be all over it with the school. Also consider contacting the Education Department (find email for Director of Education) and your Councillor.
In my kids school area of Falkirk the Department and Councillors are very helpful when it comes to Education.
I'm friends with the head of the parent council. She's tried her best just to be told teachers are very busy. I really don't want to cause my daughter any further embarrassment. She's already unhappy with me constantly getting in touch with the school.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Fri 12 Feb 08:24
I`m really saddened to read about the shabby experience moviescot`s daughter is suffering during lockdown and the repeated failed attempts by her dad to engage with her school in a meaningful way. There are only two options left to him. Take it higher or just accept that anything is likely to change now before the kids go back. (Perhaps a transfer to a new school, if it was practicable, would be something they could consider?)
Two observations from this:-
All schools are not the same - some are coping with home learning better than others.
All schools contain a high proportion of caring, dedicated and hardworking teachers.
This thread, like many others, has gone off on a tangent. Is there anyone who would like to see a longer school day and shorter summer holidays, once pupils go back?
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Fri 12 Feb 09:51
Quote:
GG Riva, Fri 12 Feb 08:24
I`m really saddened to read about the shabby experience moviescot`s daughter is suffering during lockdown and the repeated failed attempts by her dad to engage with her school in a meaningful way. There are only two options left to him. Take it higher or just accept that anything is likely to change now before the kids go back. (Perhaps a transfer to a new school, if it was practicable, would be something they could consider?)
Two observations from this:-
All schools are not the same - some are coping with home learning better than others.
All schools contain a high proportion of caring, dedicated and hardworking teachers.
This thread, like many others, has gone off on a tangent. Is there anyone who would like to see a longer school day and shorter summer holidays, once pupils go back?
Cheers. I've given up. We've decided to do the work which is correctly presented and just write to the other teachers. If they engage and correct we will also complete.
Would not support a longer school day or shortening school holidays. Children have had enough stress already.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Fri 12 Feb 10:19
If you have problems - go only to the headteacher in the first instance, he/she is the person to whom you should refer.
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Topic Originator: Parfect68
Date: Fri 12 Feb 10:21
I would not support shorter holidays or longer days, children and good teachers have had it tough enough already. The more we can normalise the better. As hard as it is to say, children the world over have been disadvantaged so in the big picture all will be in the same place with very few in a more advantageous position. If it comes to it let the teachers focus on core subjects to help catch up during normal school day and parents to provide the wider curriculum.
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Fri 12 Feb 10:24
My suggestion for the schools will never be implemented but here it is.
It's a complete reset of the school year.
1) reduce the summer holidays by 2 weeks on a permanent basis.
2) continue this current year up until the normal Christmas break.
3) add one of the summer weeks to the Christmas holidays.
4) start the new year in January and make this a permanent change
5) add the last summer week to the spring holidays.
6) exams to be taken in the autumn rather than spring
7) clearly colleges and universities would also have to follow this timetable.
I've never understood why we have 6/7 weeks in the summer. By the end of the summer holidays everyone is bored anyway.
Never be done but would solve lots of issues.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Fri 12 Feb 12:23
A few major obstacles to consider there.
One immediately - moving exams to the autumn creates a very big problem..........who is going to mark/assess ?
That has been done by volunteer teachers during the summer holidays.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 12 Feb 12:49
Movie, surely children aren`t bored during the summer holidays even at the end. When I was at school the only thing about the end of the holidays I remember was the absolute dread you felt at the looming iceberg on the horizon that was the first day back.
Might just be nostalgia but I seem to remember the summer holidays as being glorious days. The feeling of walking home after the last day of term can`t be bettered.
The harsh realities of life are going to hit them soon enough regardless of how well they do at school so I say let them enjoy their childhood and adolescence while they can.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Fri 12 Feb 13:01
Quote:
veteraneastender, Fri 12 Feb 12:23
A few major obstacles to consider there.
One immediately - moving exams to the autumn creates a very big problem..........who is going to mark/assess ?
That has been done by volunteer teachers during the summer holidays.
Marking to be done over extra Christmas holidays. I'm sure this is something easy that could be resolved.
I've never really understood why we have such long summer holidays. I've always felt they should be distributed more evenly over the year.
Short holidays mean you forget less and would come back more ready to start.
After all how many adults would be ready to get back into work after taking 7 weeks off.
Post Edited (Fri 12 Feb 13:43)
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Fri 12 Feb 13:04
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Fri 12 Feb 12:49
Movie, surely children aren`t bored during the summer holidays even at the end. When I was at school the only thing about the end of the holidays I remember was the absolute dread you felt at the looming iceberg on the horizon that was the first day back.
Might just be nostalgia but I seem to remember the summer holidays as being glorious days. The feeling of walking home after the last day of term can`t be bettered.
The harsh realities of life are going to hit them soon enough regardless of how well they do at school so I say let them enjoy their childhood and adolescence while they can.
Rose tinted glasses. I have a near 14 year old and she is stir crazy by week 4. I also remember being really bored near the end of summer holidays.
Also long holiday times can result in children going backwards as they have no real learning for 6/7 weeks. This is becoming more evident with people already saying the lockdowns are harming and putting children back
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Fri 12 Feb 15:29
"Marking to be done over extra Christmas holidays."
Can`t see that working.
Marking exam papers is a significant time consuming undertaking.
Your suggested scenario of starting the school year in January makes that even less workable. Three weeks across the festive period is far from enough time to have exams marked, grades reviewed and results published.
As for the length of summer holidays - these are near universal in countries that follow the traditional academic year model. Pupils/students do not have an infinite capacity for working in educational pursits, they need regular breaks.
As GG mentioned above, many struggle to keep up a consistent attention span across the whole of a 9am-4pm day. Extending term time is not going to improve that.
Applying commercial and industrial working practices to schools etc. is a dubious model to embrace.
Post Edited (Fri 12 Feb 15:30)
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Topic Originator: TAFKA_Super_Petrie
Date: Fri 12 Feb 15:59
Marked improvement this time round from the first lockdown with what my two are getting, both in content itself and how it is being delivered.
Also noticing from gauging opinions of friends and colleagues their definitely seems to be better engagement across the board from those who have younger teachers who, dare i say, are more tech savvy and comfortable with all the tech at their disposable compared to some of their more senior colleagues.
---------------------------------------------------------------
"People always talk about Ronaldinho and magic, but I didn't see him today. I saw Henrik Larsson; that's where the magic was."
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Fri 12 Feb 17:28
Checking up online. Teachers do not seem to volunteer to me mark exams. They be are paid and have to train to be examiners as far as I can see.
Not sure why you can't take the exams around September time. They can then be marked between then and the start of the new January term. I really don't see why we cannot change things.
I still do not believe that a 6/7 week break is actually in the best interests of pupils.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Fri 12 Feb 19:21
"Teachers do not seem to volunteer to me mark exams."
Apologies, I should have been clearer, marking national exams is not part of a teacher`s contract - that`s what I meant about them being volunteers - but yes, you are correct they are paid for this additional work.
The prospect of marking at weekends, as you suggest, would be a major disincentive.
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Topic Originator: Andrew283
Date: Fri 12 Feb 19:40
Summer holidays were the best thing of my school days. I'd have given anyone suggesting shortening them a swift, sharp boot in the knackers if they put that forth 15 years ago
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Topic Originator: istvan kozma
Date: Fri 12 Feb 19:55
I would offer live lessons but then not all kids could access those.
KOZMA
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Fri 12 Feb 22:11
Quote:
veteraneastender, Fri 12 Feb 19:21
"Teachers do not seem to volunteer to me mark exams."
Apologies, I should have been clearer, marking national exams is not part of a teacher`s contract - that`s what I meant about them being volunteers - but yes, you are correct they are paid for this additional work.
The prospect of marking at weekends, as you suggest, would be a major disincentive.
Volunteers don't get paid. So they're not volunteers. They get paid a good rate for their efforts.
I never mentioned marking at weekends. There are two holiday periods between September exams and January start.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 12 Feb 22:27
It's not mandatory work so therefore they are volunteering to pick up extra work. Same as volunteering to do extra shifts.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Fri 12 Feb 22:59
"Volunteers don`t get paid. So they`re not volunteers"
See jake`s explanation above.
Post Edited (Sat 13 Feb 11:25)
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Topic Originator: AJ27
Date: Sat 13 Feb 07:22
A real mix here of experiences - fortunately my daughter left school last year and now only has to contend with the p*** poor offering from her university up in Elgin. My nephew though is in 1st year and my brother in law was absolutely raging this week to receive an email from the school asking the parents to take more responsibility in getting their children more engaged in the school work - he had logged on that morning at 8.50 and finished his work for the day by 9.30 (and insisted that was one of the better days).
The biggest obstacle to changing the working patterns though will be the teachers themselves - undoubtedly there will be good and bad ones as in all areas of work - most though are struggling to teach in a way they are not comfortable with (and haven’t been trained for) with pupils who are also out of their comfort zone - and a good number of them remember are also having to combine home schooling with in school face to face teaching as well so it’s no surprise to me that I hear them complaining of stress.
We need to get the schools back as soon as possible - and the shops and other businesses as well come to that.
This year more than ever the teachers will need their holidays.
Andy J
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Sat 13 Feb 07:25
The proposal to shorten the summer holidays is nothing new, moviescot. It was first floated by Aberdeenshire, ironically enough, in the mid 80s, I think. They suggested the annual 12 weeks be spread around the year, in four 3 week blocks; Easter, Summer, October and Christmas. They reasoned that the summer holidays were too long and that pupils had often forgotten what they`d learned before the break and teachers had to cover the work again. There was no support for it so it sank like a stone.....
While the idea may appear to be sound and logical, it doesn`t stand up to closer scrutiny. In the first instance, there`s the climatic consideration. While we may moan about the unpredictable Scottish weather, there`s no doubt we have more daylight, more sunshine and higher average temperatures during the summer months and as I mentioned further up, many of our schools, built in the 60s and 70s, have so much glass they are effectively greenhouses. In my old school, you could walk into the classrooms on it`s eastern flank at 9 am on a sunny day and the thermometer would show it was over 30°C and that was in May/June. My lab was on the opposite side and in the afternoon I often recorded temperatures in the high 30s. Trying to teach a class of thirsty, sweaty kids is extremely challenging. Perhaps this is the main reason countries in the northern hemisphere have their main holidays in summer? I know that in Italy, where summers can be really hot, the summer holidays go from the end of June to the middle of September, but they have no tattie holidays, 2 weeks at Christmas and 1 week at Easter.
The corollary of the proposal is that pupils would have more time off in the winter months, when the weather is usually poor and they would become bored and restless if stuck at home. Most parents take their holidays when their kids are off school. In this new set up, everyone one would be condensed into a narrow 3 week summer window, or be forced to travel a long, long way for a sunshine holiday if they opted for one of the other slots.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Sat 13 Feb 11:08
Good post GG.
I would add too that kids, especially the younger ones, benefit from an extended period where they are free to just be kids without the pressure of responsibility.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Sat 13 Feb 15:57
Holidays I would suggest.
4 weeks in summer
3 weeks in October
2 weeks at Christmas
3 weeks late April to early May
Exams taken in September time. Marked between October and end of November. Results in January or late December.
As we all know British summers cannot be guaranteed to be nice. Spring & Autumn can be just as nice.
Same 12 weeks of holidays.
Some benefits would be that kids don't need to be looked after for several weeks in the summer. Bumped off to grand parents etc. If they need to go to grand parents then that can be spread over the summer, spring and autumn.
It's all pretty radical and not something I would ever expect general support for. We're used to the way it is
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Sat 13 Feb 16:23
The proposed exam timescale and marking schedule etc. is unworkable.
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Sat 13 Feb 17:27
Quote:
veteraneastender, Sat 13 Feb 16:23
The proposed exam timescale and marking schedule etc. is unworkable.
Why?
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Sat 13 Feb 17:51
For a start - a calendar month is insufficient time to run a full exam diet.
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Sat 13 Feb 19:01
Well start it earlier - August.This is just semantics.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Sat 13 Feb 19:20
August is the start of your new session - kids come back from their summer break and go into an exam diet ?
That`s even less desirable.
In the current model many schools offer extra tuition classes in core subjects over the Easter break so pupils are better prepared for the 5 + week exam diet.
The term from January to April is when all the solid preparatory groundwork is laid.
That is not going to work in August after a 4 week break.
The present model actually works. Best left as is.
Although the precise breakdown of non attendance breaks is open to debate.
Post Edited (Sat 13 Feb 19:25)
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Sat 13 Feb 19:39
Quote:
veteraneastender, Sat 13 Feb 19:20
August is the start of your new session - kids come back from their summer break and go into an exam diet ?
That`s even less desirable.
In the current model many schools offer extra tuition classes in core subjects over the Easter break so pupils are better prepared for the 5 + week exam diet.
The term from January to April is when all the solid preparatory groundwork is laid.
That is not going to work in August after a 4 week break.
The present model actually works. Best left as is.
Although the precise breakdown of non attendance breaks is open to debate.
The current model does work. I was putting a suggestion in to assist this year's students who have missed a great deal of actual school time. And I thought it a good idea to rearrange the school year to for the future.
My actual dates etc can be arranged to fit in with exams etc but I can't be bothered now.
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Sat 13 Feb 22:19
Quote:
veteraneastender, Fri 12 Feb 19:21
"Teachers do not seem to volunteer to me mark exams."
Apologies, I should have been clearer, marking national exams is not part of a teacher`s contract - that`s what I meant about them being volunteers - but yes, you are correct they are paid for this additional work.
The prospect of marking at weekends, as you suggest, would be a major disincentive.
If you're a volunteer, you'll have no contract of employment. This means you decide how many hours you want to volunteer each week. You won't be paid for your work, but can be paid for out of pocket expenses. This includes money spent on food, travel or childcare costs whilst volunteering.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Sun 14 Feb 07:30
Quote:
moviescot
If you're a volunteer, you'll have no contract of employment. This means you decide how many hours you want to volunteer each week. You won't be paid for your work, but can be paid for out of pocket expenses. This includes money spent on food, travel or childcare costs whilst volunteering.
That's a bit like saying if you're self employed, you can turn up for work when you feel like it. Teachers who volunteer to mark exams have to meet a deadline and must take a minimum number of scripts. I don't know what that is now, but it used to be 200. I never volunteered, because I didn't even like marking internal exam papers unless I could put a face to the name. I remember colleagues who did mark for the SQA groaning at the long hours they'd spent for 90p per script - less tax.
Most of them put the money towards a family holiday, luckily for me, I have relatives in Italy, so I only needed to pay for flights and some spending money, no hotel fees to pay for.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Sun 14 Feb 09:20
When my daughter did the marking, she said that it was like a retired teachers reunion!
Did it once for the money but found it very stressful, that was higher art she was marking.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Sun 14 Feb 09:54
Quote:
moviescot, Sat 13 Feb 22:19
Quote:
veteraneastender, Fri 12 Feb 19:21
"Teachers do not seem to volunteer to me mark exams."
Apologies, I should have been clearer, marking national exams is not part of a teacher`s contract - that`s what I meant about them being volunteers - but yes, you are correct they are paid for this additional work.
The prospect of marking at weekends, as you suggest, would be a major disincentive.
If you're a volunteer, you'll have no contract of employment. This means you decide how many hours you want to volunteer each week. You won't be paid for your work, but can be paid for out of pocket expenses. This includes money spent on food, travel or childcare costs whilst volunteering.
Serving teachers who offer to mark exam papers have a regular teaching contract - it does not include setting/marking national exams. Therefore if they do offer to do so it is a voluntary act.
Post Edited (Sun 14 Feb 09:56)
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Sun 14 Feb 09:58
Quote:
LochgellyAlbert, Sun 14 Feb 09:20
When my daughter did the marking, she said that it was like a retired teachers reunion!
Did it once for the money but found it very stressful, that was higher art she was marking.
You can tell her it's a lot more stressful marking Higher English, LA - not that it was my subject, but some my colleagues who were, got through a whole pack of red pens when marking for the SQA. Upwards of 20 spelling mistakes were not uncommon in the essay writing section. They certainly earned their money the hard way.... ☺
Not your average Sunday League player.
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