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 Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Mon 19 Jul 15:48

Plenty newspapers carrying pictures of nightclubs crammed at midnight last night in places such as London, Leeds and Newcastle

Without a doubt, infections will rocket. It remains to be seen if the Tory gamble pays off and the NHS are not overwhelmed again?

Ironically, the free lateral flow test kits have ran out, on the government website

Meanwhile, Boris has had to stay home after another embarrassing U-turn



Post Edited (Mon 19 Jul 15:57)
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 19 Jul 16:30

Could it be the Westminster government is bowing to the wishes of the people and businesses who finance the Tories? Surely not!

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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 19 Jul 16:43

Completely accept needing to get back to normal but it's fairly clear this will lead to a rise in cases. I don't think that's necessarily an issue provided hospitalisations and deaths remain low.

However, "healthy" people should still take precautions. The Delta variant absolutely floored someone I know who was double dosed already. Fit and healthy and struggling to breathe last week.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Mon 19 Jul 17:11

I don`t think those young people packing out those nightclubs are all Tory voters.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Mon 19 Jul 17:31

No towk but the owners could be ??

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Mon 19 Jul 18:00

Just announced those wanting to go to a night club must show evidence of having been double jabbed, a negative test will no longer be considered.

Also considering other crowded events….here we go, freedom day my ar$e.

Post Edited (Mon 19 Jul 18:21)
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Mon 19 Jul 18:22

Think you`ll be fine Berry. Tory mp`s are already up in arms over the plans.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Mon 19 Jul 18:34

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Mon 19 Jul 18:22

Think you`ll be fine Berry. Tory mp`s are already up in arms over the plans.


I’m not really thinking about me to be honest, it’s bigger than that, even those vaccinated surely consider this move wrong, taking the vaccination should be a personal decision and flouting ‘Freedom Day’ and then saying you won’t get into clubs come September…the irony. The ‘and other crowded events’ also sets them up for a nice sequel.

Why isn’t a negative test not allowed but you can let a very possible positive COVID double jabbed person in?

You want to encourage people to take the vaccine, you put more in to instil confidence and reiterate the benefits of taking one, you address the concerns raised rather than throw them away as conspiracy theories. You don’t threaten them.

It’s coercion, it’s absolutely wrong and it’s bang on what Rastapari has called for a long time.

Forcing it on our youthful ones as well, leave them alone.

Rant over :)
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Mon 19 Jul 18:51

"You want to encourage people to take the vaccine, you put more in to instil confidence and reiterate the benefits of taking one, you address the concerns raised rather than throw them away as conspiracy theories. You don’t threaten them."

Not sure what more they can do to try and persuade people. People have made their minds up and mostly done so on unreliable information.
Humza Yousaf has said it isn`t a mandatory vaccine so I really don`t think the Scottish Government will be making it compulsory for access to events.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Mon 19 Jul 18:51

Because a negative result don’t prove anything… my son had to give two negative tests recently…

Did the test in his house and then just entered the result into a website… imagine he was less than considerate he might not even bother with the test and just put in negative with the serial number from the kit he picked up???

I’ll bet there are people who want to go as long as the risks have been minimised, ie knowing everyone there has been double vaccinated, ie they’ve done everything they could to prevent getting the infection and therefore less likely to pass it on…

If people mitigate the risk and then catch it/pass it on then nobody can complain. If people don’t mitigate the risk (ie don’t get vaccinated) then if they pass it on, people have the right to be angry as it’s their fault
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Mon 19 Jul 20:04

It’s just getting to be a load of nonesense now tbh.
Freedom but you have to have 2 x vax to be sort of free??
Iv had my 2 but if I caught covid could still end up in hospital….. REMEMBER when Mr Rasta called this out months ago and he was more or less told to fek off…. Anyone want to apologise to him now?

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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 19 Jul 20:26

Rasta's view is just get on with it and healthy people shouldn't bother getting vaccinated.

Two doses is said to offer very effective protection but doesn't guarantee no hospitalisation. The guy I know could be dead right now if he hadn't been vaccinated. I realise that sounds dramatic but the Delta variant spreads like wildfire.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Mon 19 Jul 20:32

I don’t think anyone will be apologising to anyone as many made it quite clear that while the vaccination is voluntary and people can make their own choice as to whether they take it they will have to accept the consequences of refusing it and if that means that they do not have access to some things then I am totally fine with that.

The lateral flow test is a farce as it’s self certification. I know loads of people who just used the bar code and certified clear without testing to get into Wembley for the Scotland game so that process is worthless.


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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Mon 19 Jul 21:02

Ah going back Rasta said more or less there will not be any freedom as you will have to prove you have had the vax meaning no freedom… put that now and it’s true.
So we now get divided again by the government.

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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 19 Jul 21:31

See what you mean.

Again, I can see both sides. Double vaccinated are less at risk, but also less likely to pass the virus on.

People who choose not to be vaccinated shouldn't be discriminated against, but we've still some way to go until the higher risk groups are all double vaccinated. After everyone who wants to be vaccinated is vaccinated then it's a different story.

My own view is opening venues like nightclubs right now is unbelievably stupid. A packed, enclosed environment where there's likely to be a fair amount of the touchy-feely going on is an ideal breeding ground.

Of course, this is all being decided by the idiot who left the doors open to countries rife with the Delta variant and then appeared flabbergasted when cases skyrocketed in the UK.

The double-dose for clubs thing doesn't even make sense. So when cases are going up like mad in England he opens the clubs but then in two months these clubs will suddenly no longer be safe unless you're double-dosed? Why would they be less safe in two months? Given vaccination rates in the younger groups will have increased, they should be LESS of a risk in 2 months.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Mon 19 Jul 21:45

I don’t see what’s wrong with showing evidence of vaccine to be able to do things, life is full of examples of this

It’s a free choice if you want to get a passport or not, but there’ll be no trips outside uk/Ireland if you don’t

It’s a free choice if you want to have a couple of pints in the pub, but you can’t then drive home…

…and on the driving theme, if I get in a cab, I expect the driver to be sober, I expect him to have an adequate licence, I expect the car to be in good mechanical order and road legal and with proper insurance

So don’t see anything wrong with expecting those who attend public gatherings/social activities to have taken all the necessary precautions to prevent as best they can, the spread of the virus to me and everyone else (and that includes being vaccinated)
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Mon 19 Jul 21:48

Well I was on site today and there’s 2 x crews up here from down south.
1 guy that I get on well with was coughing and spluttering his way round site and 30 mins later he’s wearing a mask??
I thought fek that and went to the other end of the site to carry out some work.. should I have thought about this as Iv been double jabbed?
I carry hand gel etc but there is the worry if I caught it then I’m visiting my family as the full vax obviously isn’t working🤷🏻‍♂️
I suppose it’s down to the person to make sure they feel safe… I carry my hand gel everywhere with me tbh.

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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Mon 19 Jul 22:00

I take your point DBP but what about when the taxi driver asks you for a certificate to say you have had 2 x vax for you to get into his taxi? Can you ask the taxi driver for his certificate? It’s a minefield and going to lead to a lot of unrest.
Rasta and I don’t know him got this spot on months ago and let’s see if he is right about a lockdown in sept/October?

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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 19 Jul 22:38

Rather than places where risk is higher asking for a "vaccine passport", what should be done?

Flip the argument round and say non-vaccinated should be free to do as they please. That then discriminates against those who are vaccinated but are concerned about their own health or the health of others.

To me there are only really two routes to "normality":

1. The vast majority have had two doses and a booster (if required).

2. Those concerned about the vaccine are partly ostracised for another 18 months until testing of the vaccines is concluded.

What we're seeing is a mish-mash of both, which doesn't make sense.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: dafc  
Date:   Mon 19 Jul 22:44

Scottish government are making more or less same decisions 2 weeks after England. So it will all come here too regards vacs proof for entering large events. Absolutely a guarantee this will be case for football before full crowds back in.
Lockdown is September October almost a certainty as well. Already talking about this winter being the worst, planting the seeds of lockdown,

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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Mon 19 Jul 22:44

Nah what we’re seeing is another divide again which is only going to cause yet more arguments and distancing…

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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 19 Jul 22:51

If we were to lockdown, it should be right now, not autumn.

I'm not one for conspiracies, but I expect the opening of clubs is to appease the leisure industry.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Mon 19 Jul 23:10

If you are double dozed you are much less likely to be hospitalised. The whole gamble is being based on knowing cases will rocket but hoping few will burden the NHS.

That makes the double dose condition reasonable to me.

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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh  
Date:   Mon 19 Jul 23:32

There is actually a third route to normality, and that is via natural immunity through infection for people who have not been vaccinated.

Despite some experts still trying to convince people that herd immunity through vaccination is obtainable, the only way we will reach herd immunity is through a combination of vaccination and natural infection.

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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Parfect68  
Date:   Tue 20 Jul 08:47

Quote:

EEP, Mon 19 Jul 20:04

It’s just getting to be a load of nonesense now tbh.
Freedom but you have to have 2 x vax to be sort of free??
Iv had my 2 but if I caught covid could still end up in hospital….. REMEMBER when Mr Rasta called this out months ago and he was more or less told to fek off…. Anyone want to apologise to him now?


In all walks of life you have people at polar ends of a debate, it's good to debate, it's how we learn if we're prepared to listen and open our minds and share our points without ridiculing or point scoring and trying to ensure what we are stating is grounded in fact or validated evidence. Unfortunately a lot of covid debate on here has descended into abuse, sometimes from both sides and some posters appeared very closed/fixed on their assertions and unwilling to debate.

I've been as honest as I can as a local healthcare worker, Pars fan and someone struggling to get their head around all the info. I'm more middle of the road than polar. We don't know what we don't know and are learning all the time about this novel virus, which without doubt, because we now have the evidence to show it, has caused significant mortality and put huge pressure on the healthcare system. Lockdowns helped reduce that pressure by reducing spread. Then came the vaccination, I've never heralded it as the be all and end all, it's a possible pathway to help reduce mortality and hopefully reduce (not prevent) transmission, which, the gathering evidence is suggesting it does... With opening up, Thousands more getting Covid (vac and un vac), some still ending up in hospital (but significantly less than previously), some still ending up in ICU, (but significantly less than previously), some still dying (but significantly less than previously),.... Is this due to vaccine or virus mutation...? We are still learning and will understand more in a few months /year or so time when we understand %vac v unvacc etc, it's way too early to determine at this point. I believe at this point, on what I've read, that it's due to the vaccine- but I'm open to exploring the evidence.
Rasta called out that we'd be in endless cycles of lockdown.... I have never disagreed with him on that, on the basis of, at any point, if the spread is so bad that it's resulting in overwhelming of our healthcare systems then implementing lockdown slows that down. It's about choices. People are getting back to being quick to complain when they can't access normal healthcare services but for many months the NHS has been doing its damndest to balance both business as usual, the backlog and COvid care/implement the biggest vaccination programme in history.... The increasing covid cases and isolating is stretching capacity at every level from comm pharmacy, gp surgeries and hospital services at a traditional high annual leave time.
I do think it's time to open up sensibly, maintaining certain measures (mask wearing in certain places, indoor distancing where possible, hand hygiene, avoiding crowded places) until we understand impact of vaccination/unvacc/mutations.
I'm glad I don't have to make the big decisions but I can't stand freedom day and think the uk government handling has been hypocritical, inept and corrupt.

Post Edited (Tue 20 Jul 09:03)
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Tue 20 Jul 09:35

It`s so reassuring to read a sensible post like that amidst all the nonsense we hear, Parfect68. Every day we get people with factional interests complaining about decisions that they see as discriminatory. If governments had satisfied all factional interests the result would have been total mayhem.

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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Tue 20 Jul 09:58

Regardless of what you think about the vaccine, it doesn’t finish its clinical trials and full study until January 2023.

So how can Government threaten folks to take this vaccine now when the analysis on the vaccine is incomplete? How can they threaten anyone at all period.

Is this what folk define as freedom?

‘If people mitigate the risk and then catch it/pass it on then nobody can complain. If people don’t mitigate the risk (ie don’t get vaccinated) then if they pass it on, people have the right to be angry as it’s their fault’

And how can you tell who ‘passed it on’ - must be those unvaccinated types aye if there’s one lurking?

I agree with Jake89 about nightclubs not reopening if there’s a concern, let’s face it a lot of guys trying their luck on the dance floor, kissing etc all very close contact in what are usually crammed places and sweat pits.

My concern is, this isn’t about the vaccine anymore, it’s bigger, it’s about controlling people and nightclubs is the easiest one to promote now but then they’ll introduce other gathering events.

And it will affect those double vaccinated as well when it comes to the boosters that will be deemed necessary.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Tue 20 Jul 10:31

Just for some context to the January 2023 study period point.
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-vaccine-monitoring-idUSKBN2AC2G3

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Tue 20 Jul 10:40

Thanks TOWK

‘This means that “all trial participants will continue to be monitored to assess long-term protection and safety for an additional two years after their second dose” ‘

To help understand if there is any long term effects associated with the vaccine essentially, which is why some would rather wait. I honestly don’t think that’s unreasonable.

Post Edited (Tue 20 Jul 10:41)
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Parfect68  
Date:   Tue 20 Jul 11:47

Quote:

Berry, Tue 20 Jul 10:40

Thanks TOWK

‘This means that “all trial participants will continue to be monitored to assess long-term protection and safety for an additional two years after their second dose” ‘

To help understand if there is any long term effects associated with the vaccine essentially, which is why some would rather wait. I honestly don’t think that’s unreasonable.


I honestly don't think its unreasonable either for you to wait and make that decision for yourself. It's absolutely entirely your decision, though with that, in the short term, may come consequences of not being able to do or access certain things in the same way those that have taken the vaccine have to accept there is some risk associated with having done so. It is all a balance of risk and consequences that we have to decide for ourselves on best available validated evidence.
P. S. The nightclub double vax introducing in 2months is utterly ridiculous... If it's that a risky environment (which I think it is) implement it now(plus accept negative test for unvacc) or not at all...

Post Edited (Tue 20 Jul 11:48)
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Tue 20 Jul 20:31

Tbh I don’t have any issues with folk not waiting to get the vax and Berry has good examples and I respect his decision.
I firmly blame the government now as they come out with so much bull that people are just going to ignore this corrupt group to the core…. and Sturgeon can get tae aswell…
Just admit Rasta was more or less right all these months ago and we are still at level 0 with restrictions….. that’s not level 0😅
Further lockdown in sept/October and all like prisoners again… noticed a couple of more guys on the site today wearing face masks whilst spluttering and coughing all day🤷🏻‍♂️



Post Edited (Tue 20 Jul 20:33)
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Tue 20 Jul 22:01

If I remember correctly Rasta was against lockdown and against vaccinations. I never did work out what his alternatives were. It`s easy to stand on the sidelines and criticise but in the real world somebody has to make decisions.

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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: fcda  
Date:   Tue 20 Jul 22:32

Ratsa also claimed that the lockdowns and passports were all part of a conspiracy.

This is what most were disagreeing with. Not that, if the virus mutates or the vaccine programme is 100% effective, we'll be in lockdown again - that's bloody obvious.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 20 Jul 22:50

Assuming the folk on your site are ill, EEP, they shouldn't be working. Even if it's just a cold, it's just stupid to work on through. It'll prolong the recovery and spread the infection to others. That pair need their heads knocked together.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Wed 21 Jul 08:31

88% of UK had at least one vaccine, a hospital in London reporting 80% new Covid admissions are unvaccinated.

But yeah...

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I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 21 Jul 08:54

That data is going to be skewed. How many of that 80% non-vaccinated were teenagers out mixing as a result of it being summer holidays?

The last quoted figure was that it was a 60/40 split between unvaccinated and vaccinated in hospital.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Parfect68  
Date:   Wed 21 Jul 09:51

Saw an interesting tweet this morning and will see if I can source definitive info but it gave the example of a cohort of pts as below:
Cohort 1: 50 unvaccinated pts with covid, 5 of those end up in hospital. (10%)
Cohort 2: 1000 vaccinated pts with covid., 10 end up in hospital (1%)

Headline report is 15pts in hospital, 66% of them vaccinated (translated into vaccine doesn't work so why bother) instead of having the vaccine means you are 10 times less likely to be hospitalised if you get Covid.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Wed 21 Jul 11:56

Quote:

EEP, Tue 20 Jul 20:31

Tbh I don’t have any issues with folk not waiting to get the vax and Berry has good examples and I respect his decision.
I firmly blame the government now as they come out with so much bull that people are just going to ignore this corrupt group to the core…. and Sturgeon can get tae aswell…
Just admit Rasta was more or less right all these months ago and we are still at level 0 with restrictions….. that’s not level 0😅
Further lockdown in sept/October and all like prisoners again… noticed a couple of more guys on the site today wearing face masks whilst spluttering and coughing all day🤷🏻‍♂️



Post Edited (Tue 20 Jul 20:33)


What’s with the sudden urge to blow smoke up rastas jacksey (along with your tongue by the looks of it) for a small amount of stuff that literally no one argued about, that was obvious and was well known & recognised while ignoring scores and scores of utter hogwash (vaccine alters your DNA & internment camps for the unvaccinated for example) spouted over a long period of time 😂




Post Edited (Wed 21 Jul 11:58)
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: ohaye  
Date:   Wed 21 Jul 17:18

The maddest thing in all of this is how society has managed to turn medical norms dating back in some cases hundreds of years in quarantine, vaccination & yes, vaccine passports into polarising political poison. Anybody who said a year ago they were coming isn’t the visionary they’d like to believe they are, they’ve been here for a long time.

I don’t remember comparisons with apartheid or nazi Germany (lazy disgusting comparisons btw) at the vaccine requirements to go to, as an example, some South American countries? There is literally no difference in what is being proposed here. Am I being discriminated against if I can’t visit parts of Peru because I don’t want to get a yellow fever vaccine? Of course not. Just like I’m not being discriminated against if it’s a requirement to get into an nightclub or event and I choose not to get it.

Do I believe governments are getting this right? Not necessarily. Do I think they’re trying their best to navigate a situation nobody alive has experienced? Absolutely.

For those who think Vaccine passports are about control, I’d genuinely love just one person tell me what is exactly about my life they’re trying to control.

Personally I don’t think it’s about control, for me it’s about an attempt to safeguard (however misguided). Obviously I’m not naive enough to think the govt cares specifically about my health, but I can guarantee you they care about the health of the nation in general, as getting the economy back depends on it.

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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Milos Drizzle  
Date:   Wed 21 Jul 17:36

My (perhaps somewhat naive) view is that Government, as with large conglomerates, are run by people like you or I. There will be a mix of personalities and motivations, but there should be enough checks and balances to avoid the worst excesses of any individual personality trait.

This is my signature
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 21 Jul 17:38

The travel requirements complaint is because most people bumping their gums about it rarely travelled beyond Spain. Fully accept that sounds snobby but it's not intended too. Most Brits stay in Europe and don't visit countries where vaccinations are a requirement.

To correct a comment further up - the majority of those in hospital with COVID have NOT been vaccinated. The original statement was incorrect. STV running the corrected story now.

That's two people I know now become very ill with it (one double-dosed, one single) so the risk is still out there. Both these guys fit and healthy. Second one reckons he caught it going to watch the football.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Fri 23 Jul 13:57

Quote:

Berry, Mon 19 Jul 18:00

Just announced those wanting to go to a night club must show evidence of having been double jabbed, a negative test will no longer be considered.

Also considering other crowded events….here we go, freedom day my ar$e.


Hey, I did say this was coming and was laughed at....would you like to know when plane flights for holidays will end?

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Fri 23 Jul 14:08

Quote:

fcda, Tue 20 Jul 22:32

Ratsa also claimed that the lockdowns and passports were all part of a conspiracy.

This is what most were disagreeing with. Not that, if the virus mutates or the vaccine programme is 100% effective, we'll be in lockdown again - that's bloody obvious.


Point out where you reckon those at the top are truly interested in our health?
Sorry but at this point that's ridiculous.

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Fri 23 Jul 14:12

Don't think anyone is saying that those in power care specifically about the health of the average individual.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Fri 23 Jul 14:22

Quote:

DA-go Par Adonis, Fri 23 Jul 14:12

Don't think anyone is saying that those in power care specifically about the health of the average individual.


So why are most of you so mocking and aggressive when I suggest their motivations aren't health and I prefer not to be an experiment?
Edit, I could tell you all a lot more....and it will all come true but there's enough fear out there for you all to contend with.
It's all out there hidden in plain sight....get your holidays in if you are so inclined because in the not to distant future you won't get anywhere.

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.

Post Edited (Fri 23 Jul 16:14)
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Fri 23 Jul 16:35

What makes you think I, or anyone, can speak for "most of you"?

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I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 23 Jul 16:45

For someone who claims to only care about himself and his family why is it Rasta is constantly on here seeking approval or some sort of apology?

We`re all still waiting to hear how he would have dealt with the pandemic - or was there any pandemic?

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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Fri 23 Jul 16:55

Rasta`s got the tinfoil hat on, evidence of everything yet proof of nothing. Common occurrence really.

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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Fri 23 Jul 17:06

Quote:

wee eck, Fri 23 Jul 16:45

For someone who claims to only care about himself and his family why is it Rasta is constantly on here seeking approval or some sort of apology?

We`re all still waiting to hear how he would have dealt with the pandemic - or was there any pandemic?


I'm seeking no apology others did that.....so don't play dumb.
Not my job to solve the pandemic is it.
Why do you all get so touchy, like I said elsewhere you can surely take solace in how wrong I've been.

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.

Post Edited (Fri 23 Jul 17:10)
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Fri 23 Jul 17:09

Quote:

Playup_Pompey, Fri 23 Jul 16:55

Rasta`s got the tinfoil hat on, evidence of everything yet proof of nothing. Common occurrence really.


Yeah but I can take my tin foil hat off and get a jab at any time, what's in folks can't be undone.

Any way why so defensive, you're safe aren't you?

By all means though take out your concerns on me and enjoy what's coming, take solace in how wrong I've been so far, yeah?

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 23 Jul 17:46

I take no solace in you being wrong Rasta. I mean I`m pleased you were but it hasn`t brought me comfort in a time of distress so I wouldn`t call it solace.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Fri 23 Jul 18:06

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Fri 23 Jul 17:46

I take no solace in you being wrong Rasta. I mean I`m pleased you were but it hasn`t brought me comfort in a time of distress so I wouldn`t call it solace.


I was wrong about vaccine passports for "freedoms"?
I was wrong right at the start when I said we'd still be where are?
I was wrong about foreign travel, oh, there's worse to come.
I was wrong about the monetizing and politicising of covid and the theft/waste of public money?
I was wrong about the politicising of data?
There have be no deaths at all directly linked to the vaccine, right? You follow the records?
I was wrong when I said they'd get round to vaccinating kids?
I was wrong when I said the vaccines are basically still on trial until 2023?
I was wrong when I said the vaccine wouldn't stop carriage or transmission.
I was wrong about there being a handy new variant for each age group?
All the above were mocked.
I'm sure more will occur to me...like I said, sit back, it's ok, I'm always wrong ;)

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.

Post Edited (Fri 23 Jul 18:26)
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Fri 23 Jul 18:13

Can tell you enjoyed writing that post Rasta ;-)
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 23 Jul 18:19

Don`t think anyone mocked you for them because that was things we all knew or expected to happen and let`s be honest, most of them still aren`t going to happen.
Politicising of covid? Of course it has been, have you seen the how the far right have reacted to mask mandates and the vaccination drive?
Internment camps for the unvaccinated though? You weren`t even mocked for that one Rasta just met with bewilderment though if I recall correctly you agreed to a wager with someone regarding that prediction.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Fri 23 Jul 18:25

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Fri 23 Jul 18:19

Don`t think anyone mocked you for them because that was things we all knew or expected to happen and let`s be honest, most of them still aren`t going to happen.
Politicising of covid? Of course it has been, have you seen the how the far right have reacted to mask mandates and the vaccination drive?
Internment camps for the unvaccinated though? You weren`t even mocked for that one Rasta just met with bewilderment though if I recall correctly you agreed to a wager with someone regarding that prediction.


Oh, I was mocked on all those points, a great deal of you bought the whole flatten the curve crap.
I said in about four or five years there would be some sort of internment...give it time, you been in a "quarantine" hotel? You know the "drill"?
Increments.

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Fri 23 Jul 18:40

Quite a few half-truths in there, Rasta.

- vaccine passports have still to be voted on.
- we're not where we were a year ago. Just look at the infection Vs death rate. This is a result of an effective vaccination programme.
- Don't recall anyone disagreeing about corruption
- Nor about politicising data (especially when it suggest things are bad in Scotland!)
- No-one said it wouldn't be linked to deaths. It was said the risk of death was lower if receiving the vaccine than not.
- It's kids with underlying health conditions and is optional. No child is being forced to receive a vaccine, nor is any adult. Again, risk to these children of dying from COVID is massively higher than dying from a vaccine.
- Already been trialled and tested. Vaccines are in the formal study period and considered safe for use.
- It reduces the spread and risk of hospitalisation. No vaccine 100% stops you becoming ill or from transmitting infections.
- Don't recall any discussion about variants relating to age groups...
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 23 Jul 18:40

The thread Jag Part 2. Friday the 18th of June you said we`d be back in lockdown on Friday September 3rd. Seemed quite confident about it in fact.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Fri 23 Jul 18:42

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Fri 23 Jul 18:40

The thread Jag Part 2. Friday the 18th of June you said we`d be back in lockdown on Friday September 3rd. Seemed quite confident about it in fact.


3rd September 2021 - Judgement Day.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 23 Jul 18:59

This time it`s personal

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Fri 23 Jul 19:25

Quote:

jake89, Fri 23 Jul 18:40

Quite a few half-truths in there, Rasta.

- vaccine passports have still to be voted on.
- we're not where we were a year ago. Just look at the infection Vs death rate. This is a result of an effective vaccination programme.
- Don't recall anyone disagreeing about corruption
- Nor about politicising data (especially when it suggest things are bad in Scotland!)
- No-one said it wouldn't be linked to deaths. It was said the risk of death was lower if receiving the vaccine than not.
- It's kids with underlying health conditions and is optional. No child is being forced to receive a vaccine, nor is any adult. Again, risk to these children of dying from COVID is massively higher than dying from a vaccine.
- Already been trialled and tested. Vaccines are in the formal study period and considered safe for use.
- It reduces the spread and risk of hospitalisation. No vaccine 100% stops you becoming ill or from transmitting infections.
- Don't recall any discussion about variants relating to age groups...


Jake, you're missing the whole point, and in other cases talking nonsense, the vaccines like it or not are on trial until 2023, youcare the trial...I could go on but I've had my say.
Watch and see, look and find ;)
I'm off for a bit you crazy cats.

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.

Post Edited (Fri 23 Jul 19:50)
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 23 Jul 19:27

Aye Jake stop talking nonsense and missing points by stating facts.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Fri 23 Jul 19:35

Can you advise where I'm incorrect, Rasta?

When people talk about the vaccine still being "trial" they miss out the bit about how many phases/stages there are. Some might argue that's a convenient exception...
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: JnrB  
Date:   Fri 23 Jul 19:49

Ffs jake. You can’t just go using facts and sense on the internet, that’s not what it’s intended for.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Sat 24 Jul 08:10

Quote:

jake89, Fri 23 Jul 19:35

Can you advise where I'm incorrect, Rasta?

When people talk about the vaccine still being "trial" they miss out the bit about how many phases/stages there are. Some might argue that's a convenient exception...


Jake you are wrong on a few levels and missed my point, like I said I'm leaving you crazy experimental cats to it, you're pointless, you'll get your boosters and whatever you're told to oblivious to the thousands of deaths caused by it.
Gonna be a bad few winters for the jagged...like I said, good luck and bon voyage.

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: ohaye  
Date:   Sat 24 Jul 09:13

Rastapari wrote:

>
Quote:

jake89, Fri 23 Jul 19:35
>
> Can you advise where I'm incorrect, Rasta?
>
> When people talk about the vaccine still being "trial"
> they miss out the bit about how many phases/stages there are.
> Some might argue that's a convenient exception...

>
> Jake you are wrong on a few levels and missed my point, like I
> said I'm leaving you crazy experimental cats to it,
> you're pointless, you'll get your boosters and whatever
> you're told to oblivious to the thousands of deaths caused
> by it.
> Gonna be a bad few winters for the jagged...like I said, good
> luck and bon voyage.
>
>

In all honesty this is exactly the type of thing I can’t understand - why can’t we all appreciate, whatever side of the argument we fall on, that people are allowed to interpret things differently and draw our own conclusions?

Instead of calling people pointless and inferring that they’re somehow less intelligent or educated why can’t we just respect opinions?

I’ve seen plenty of you’ve no idea what is coming & don’t say you weren’t warned, mostly on the anti-vax side, and plenty of accusations of conspiracy theorists on the pro-vax side.

Truth is not one person here knows what’s next. We are living through a time that is unique in human history. Of course we’ve had plagues and pandemics before but this is the first time we’ve ever had the knowledge and technology to form a response rather than in previous years and centuries being forced to allow them to end naturally. All we can do is look at the information available and draw our own conclusions, but I don’t see how that makes anyone pointless, oblivious or anything else.

We don’t all have to agree but please let’s at least have a bit of respect for others, we’re all trying to make sense of the unprecedented situation we find ourselves in.

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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 24 Jul 09:46

Well said, ohaye.

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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Sat 24 Jul 11:06

I wouldn't bother holding your breath ohaye.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 24 Jul 11:07

I'm still waiting for Rasta to actually answer a question properly. 😂
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Sat 24 Jul 21:57

You weren't mocked. You wade into folk with tackety bits on and act like a world class head of a d1ck no matter the subject or argument.

Geez a yellow

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: charlie1  
Date:   Sat 24 Jul 22:11

Quote:

da_no_1, Sat 24 Jul 21:57

You weren't mocked. You wade into folk with tackety bits on and act like a world class head of a d1ck no matter the subject or argument.

Geez a yellow


Totally agree.
If he was an "experiment" it would have been abandoned!
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Mon 26 Jul 09:58

Article just up on Sky News where government aren’t ruling out the possibility of University students needing to be fully vaccinated in order to attend lectures and stay in halls.

Absolutely outrageous.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Mon 26 Jul 10:07

Quote:

Berry, Mon 26 Jul 09:58

Article just up on Sky News where government aren’t ruling out the possibility of University students needing to be fully vaccinated in order to attend lectures and stay in halls.

Absolutely outrageous.


CDC announces the pcr test as not reliable or accurate, another thing that was brought up...but we'll still be using the results yo keep us in place.
Mandatory vaccination is abhorrent and shouldn't even be considered until the trial period is over.
This is coercion, plain and simple.

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 26 Jul 10:08

Is that something the unions have demanded?

I don't see how it can be enforced. Only vulnerable under 18s are being offered the vaccine so how do they tackle people like my eldest who would still be 17 if starting uni fresh from high school? (He's got a good few years before any consideration of university!)
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Mon 26 Jul 10:08

You sure all get real touchy for folks that are so sure of themselves.

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 26 Jul 10:19

Link to your CDC claim, Rasta?
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: parsmad68  
Date:   Mon 26 Jul 11:02

On the subject of demographics, I would be interested in any study of vaccine take up through the age groups. In particular to student typical age group to non student of the same age group. My daughter is at Uni and she believes most of the people offered have taken up the offer. Not very scientific, so is there anywhere that the “offered” to “declined” statistics exist per age demographic.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Mon 26 Jul 11:08

Had a quick search and could find nothing Jake, not to say others won`t find a link to back up Rasta`s claim.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Mon 26 Jul 11:16

I`d certainly like to think that university students, who on paper are our brightest and best, and will be mostly the ones in positions of leadership in years to come understand this statement made by professor Byram Bridle;
"If the risk associated with the treatment is less than the risk associated with the disease, of course you apply the treatment"

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Mon 26 Jul 11:46

Precisely TOWK, on this basis don’t take it as with our kids.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Mon 26 Jul 11:58

No if you are old enough to have had kids then the odds favour getting the vaccine.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Mon 26 Jul 12:04

Students don’t need the vaccine, our kids don’t need the vaccine, leave them alone.

If they decide to take it, their choice but government shouldn’t be mandating it.

Post Edited (Mon 26 Jul 12:05)
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 26 Jul 12:10

Quote:

Berry, Mon 26 Jul 12:04

Students don’t need the vaccine, our kids don’t need the vaccine, leave them alone.

If they decide to take it, their choice but government shouldn’t be mandating it.


Not quite true.

*Some* kids would really benefit from the vaccine, as would some students.

You're correct that the government shouldn't be mandating this though. The only reason would be if there was significant deaths or hospitalisations as a result of COVID infections. This all looks good so far so it should be up to individuals to make a call on whether or not they accept the option of being vaccinated.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Mon 26 Jul 12:27

Absolutely nobody should be held down on a gurney and have a vaccine they don`t want. There might however be some restrictions on those who choose not to. That`s why under 18s should have no restrictions placed upon them as until they become adults they don`t necessarily have the legal power to make their own decisions. Once they are legally adults then they can weigh up and pro and cons of being vaccinated and and make their decision accordingly.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Mon 26 Jul 12:43

You want people to take the vaccine if they believe it’s the safest thing for them to do. They shouldn’t be penalised with restrictions, what right does government or anyone have to pose such a mandate on a vaccine that doesn’t complete its clinical trials until 2023.

We can chat about what phases are complete in the trials but the fact is it’s still in trials, and even if it wasn’t in trials point would still apply.

People are just going to take it so they can get to a football game, to go to a nightclub, now potentially to be educated…….it’s wrong plain and simple, scare tactics and they can shove it.

Where will it end as well, we talk about vaccine passports, how is the functionality built going to be leveraged once we’re over this, they aren’t going to simply decommission it, they’ll consider implementing something around how we can force people to eat healthier and we’ll be edging closer towards China and social credit systems.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Mon 26 Jul 12:54

"People are just going to take it so they can get to a football game, to go to a nightclub, now potentially to be educated…….it’s wrong plain and simple, scare tactics and they can shove it."


Had many people not already taken the vaccine, nobody would have got to a football game, nightclubs would still be closed and schools would be closed as there would be no teachers left

At least the vaccine has given people a choice.




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Mon 26 Jul 13:18

I get that RTL and honestly I’m not deliberately trying to be a Tw*t about all of this, I just think what they are discussing now is fundamentally wrong and may have wider implications longer term on other ‘freedoms’.

Those most vulnerable have been double vaccinated, excellent news ofcourse and they should get it as the risk is significantly higher for those in a higher age bracket.

That should be it now though and the rest of us should take one through personal choice.

The vaccination doesn’t stop you catching it, doesn’t stop you spreading it and evidently doesn’t always stop you getting hospitalised. Pretty sure i read over 5000 died from taking the vaccine within 28 days. So if you are of a younger age it’s within your right to really challenge it and determine whether it really is worth taking it for you and your immediate family. There will be those that take it for the greater good, there will be those that don’t want to do something because of a 90 year old neighbour a few houses up.

Ignore Boris and his threats about nightclubs, large gatherings and he’s actually trying to pull the wool over peoples eyes by calling it ‘incentivising’ people…it’s coercion.

Take one if you want to take one and you feel it’s the right thing for you and you alone to do.

You may have to be double vaccinated to get educated….just reflect on that for a little while.

This won’t stop until all testing stops.

The problem with majority of anti-vaccine people (I’m not anti-vaccine in general) is they do more harm to the cause they try to support.

Kate Sheminari for example, an absolute cretin, so whilst the majority of you completely disagree with my views my ask is you do not at any second associate my views with anything related to people like her and the crap she comes out with.

Post Edited (Mon 26 Jul 13:19)
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Mon 26 Jul 15:19

Berry, you are not being a T**T about this. You are putting forward your opinions, which are as valid as anybody else`s.

"The vaccination doesn’t stop you catching it, doesn’t stop you spreading it and evidently doesn’t always stop you getting hospitalised."

That`s very true. Sadly, a local lawyer and Pars fan succumbed to covid just last week.

As you know, I like a punt and I`ve come down on the side of the vaccine, as I figure it`s worth the risk, but each to their own.

No long after the first lockdown, we were warned that it could change the way we lead our lives permanently. Well, I think the scientists got that part right?




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: PARSpars  
Date:   Mon 26 Jul 16:43

Well said Raymie

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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Mon 26 Jul 17:37

FDA announce what was already obvious, the pcr tests, like the inventor said before his death, the test cannot discern the illness....
Think I'll continue waiting.

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 26 Jul 17:49

1. FDA update was 6 months ago.
2. What they said was to be wary of false-negatives and not to consider a negative result on its own as meaning the patient was negative.

So, correct that they may not be accurate, but not really the full story. The PCR tests are believed to be accurate in around 70% of cases. Being honest, if you had symptoms leading you to decide to take a PCR or be recommended to take a PCR, you shouldn't be out and about anyway! No-one likes the person who forces themselves into the office with a cold or, as I once experienced courtesy of someone who didn't do sick days, sickness and diarrhea (thanks for that!).
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Mon 26 Jul 19:12

Sheminari is clearly being used to discredit opponents of government lockdown and mass vaccination. What I have yet to read, in say The Guardian, is an article by a person who shares these views and who sets out the argument against. That’s 18 months in which I have read about climate change, patriarchal society, gender theory in almost every other Guardian article. However on this crucial topic- which we are discussing here best we can- there is almost an embargo in MSM on anyone who strays from the official line. We are encouraged to see banner waving protesters clashing with police but no more, bar the Barrington Declaration which has long been forgotten.

Some of the government metaphors are looking rather tired. I’ve had a few passports in my time but nobody tried to stick a needle in me so I could acquire one. I’ve rolled out the occasional carpet in a house but thankfully they did actually cover the bare boards and not just ‘make things better.’ The vaccination programme was sold to the public as a route to social liberation yet there is now talk of a booster jag- which by my arithmetic means jag number 3 by another name.

Those resisting the coercion to be vaccinated should remember that they are offering their government a very valuable piece of information by default. The ‘awkward squad,’ the cussed and obstinate or the free thinkers depending on your viewpoint, are being narrowed down the easier to be identified. No government in history would have passed up on the option of a list of non-compliant citizens.

sammer
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: davepars  
Date:   Mon 26 Jul 23:32

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/26/covid-patients-tell-of-regrets-over-refusing-jab-vaccine-intensive-care

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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Milos Drizzle  
Date:   Mon 26 Jul 23:56

Quote:

davepars, Mon 26 Jul 23:32

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/26/covid-patients-tell-of-regrets-over-refusing-jab-vaccine-intensive-care


Interesting (albeit anecdotal for that one hospital) that whilst 60% of hospital admissions are the unvaccinated, the "vast majority" who then go onto intensive care are unvaccinated.

This is my signature

Post Edited (Mon 26 Jul 23:57)
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Mon 26 Jul 23:59

To those not taking the vaccine these are genuine questions.

1 - do you socially distance?
2 - do you wear a mask when instructed?
3 - do you sanitise your hands?
4 - do you follow all the other Scottish government guidelines?

Genuinely interested to know

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Tue 27 Jul 07:30

That Guardian article is what appears every week inside the paper. There is no attempt to explain why people were reluctant to be vaccinated, just a lot of emotional statements about regret and remorse. The word ‘misinformation’ is used relating to the case against mass vaccination but again no explanation is offered.

Back when The Guardian columnists were cheering on Tony Blair to attack Iraq- we were going to bomb the country into democracy, remember- they did at least allow John Pilger some space to make the case against. Misinformation and civilian deaths concerned The Guardian little at that time but at least Pilger offered some kind of antidote to their puerile warmongering. That counter argument has been absent in regard to Covid vaccination although John Harris touched on the issue last week in a second hand sort of way.

On DA No 1`s points: pretty much yes to all these. On the metro here it`s impossible to distance so like most folk I pull on a mask, more out of politeness since I take the Swedish view that masks are more a psychological prop than a game changer for transmission. I can still drink outside without at QR code which is fine during the warm weather, and tables have been spaced out. In order to visit Britain and return last month I had to be tested five times; all negative but I suppose you`re only as good as your last test.

sammer
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Parfect68  
Date:   Tue 27 Jul 07:50

Good fact checker article re yellow card reports. https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSL2N2O41T1?__twitter_impression=true

Post Edited (Tue 27 Jul 07:54)
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Tue 27 Jul 08:16

Quote:

Berry, Mon 26 Jul 13:18

The vaccination doesn’t stop you catching it, doesn’t stop you spreading it and evidently doesn’t always stop you getting hospitalised. Pretty sure i read over 5000 died from taking the vaccine within 28 days. So if you are of a younger age it’s within your right to really challenge it and determine whether it really is worth taking it for you and your immediate family. There will be those that take it for the greater good, there will be those that don’t want to do something because of a 90 year old neighbour a few houses up.


Berry, you're a pretty sensible and rational poster and I completely agree with you in that vaccination must always come down to personal choice, but I'm more than a little sceptical about the claim that "over 5,000 people have died within 28 days of taking the vaccine."

I don't doubt it may be accurate, but what was the age and state of health of these people? How many of those 5,000+ would have died anyway, because their time was up? I'm similarly less than impressed with the Covid death measurements using the same "within 28 days of a positive Covid test" yardstick. Taking a 5 or 10 year average of pre Covid deaths and using it to calculate the excess deaths makes much more sense, imo.



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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Tue 27 Jul 08:26

GG anyone using a ridiculous stat like that as a basis not to take the vaccine is a bit silly to put it bluntly

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Tue 27 Jul 08:51

Sammer, have you taken the vaccine?

da_no_1, yes to all the above points but not sure why you are specifically directing it at those who aren’t vaccinated as there are plenty who are who will say no to your points.

I’ve never had a problem or judged people that have got themselves vaccinated. If you look back far enough I stated I may take one longer term. I’ve only ever championed my right to decide for myself the best course of action without any form of coercion being at play or being labelled a selfish barsteward because I’m reluctant to jump in the queue to take a newly introduced vaccine the moment the letter came through the post and I’m not apologising for that.

Post Edited (Tue 27 Jul 08:55)
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Tue 27 Jul 10:01

Quote:

da_no_1, Mon 26 Jul 23:59

To those not taking the vaccine these are genuine questions.

1 - do you socially distance?
2 - do you wear a mask when instructed?
3 - do you sanitise your hands?
4 - do you follow all the other Scottish government guidelines?

Genuinely interested to know


Good questions. I answer yes to all of them. Tbh I don't think anyone will have followed the guidelines better than me. I've been exceptionally careful, to the point that I have only just started visiting my mum and just sit in her garden when I'm there. Working from home has meant I've not really been near anyone. I've been to a pub beer garden once, didn't really enjoy it and I'm in no rush to go back.
I may get the vaccine but it's too soon in the testing phase at the moment. My refusal to take the vaccine might end up costing me my job, but I'm feeling ready to do other things with my life now anyway. I'll wait and see how the Guinea pigs get on, once they have had their booster jabs
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh  
Date:   Tue 27 Jul 10:34

It`s all a question of risk and benefit (for individuals and the population in general) and no one really has the answers at the moment.

It is fairly clear that there is an age where the benefits outweigh the risks for each vaccine, but it differs by sex, general health, and many other factors. For the `average` person it is probably somewhere between the 20s and 30s, but I think it is very unlikely to be below 20.

Then there is the population benefit. If the vaccine doesn`t benefit you as an individual, then you would hope it is doing a lot of good for the public in general. This is possibly via herd immunity from vaccination, but that relies on three things: vaccine coverage (the number of people vaccinated), vaccine effectiveness (in reducing transmission), and the R number of the virus.

The initial SARS-CoV-2 virus was thought to have an R number of about 3. This means that vaccine coverage of 67% with a perfect vaccine would be enough to reduce transmission to virtually zero. If the vaccine isn`t perfect in blocking transmission (which is clearly the case) then the required coverage level increases.

The delta variant, however, is thought to have an R number of about 8. This means that vaccine coverage of 88% with a perfect vaccine would allow us to reach herd immunity. Since the vaccines aren`t perfect, the true coverage required to reach herd immunity is almost certainly over 100%, and I think we might have trouble reaching that.

Pushing to vaccinate under 20s with a vaccine that could do them more personal harm than good, and which may not offer the general population any hope of herd immunity, is pointless at best and unethical at worst.

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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Tue 27 Jul 13:01

I've been to no beer gardens and had both my jabs so I reckon I've done better than you red star.

On next week's episode of covid lockdown competitiveness.....

On a serious note, it never fails to be upsetting to hear folk say that they have hardly seen their folks and that was outside in the garden. What a time to live through.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Tue 27 Jul 13:19

Italy hopes to have all teachers and pupils over the age of 12 vaccinated before schools reopen in Sept. It's not clear at present if anyone who decides not to be vaccinated will be barred from school.



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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Tue 27 Jul 14:09

For those who have taken the vaccine that have kids of 12+ would you be arranging for them to have the vaccine and would you be happy if it was made compulsory in order to attend school? Granted the latter is surely unlikely.

Genuine question, no hidden agenda just curious on how vaccinated people’s viewpoints may differ (if at all) when it comes to their kids.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Tue 27 Jul 14:11

Hi Berry,

Like yourself I am not an anti-vaxxer but have held off being vaccinated. I`ve been jabbed a few times in my life with no serious side effects- once for tetanus after being bitten by a dog when playing football and in China I needed one for hepatitis protection (I think.) I largely accept the medical argument put forward that vaccination reduces the risk of transmission and infection.

So why am I not `doing my bit?` Two reasons mainly. There has been a rush to put the vaccinations into general public use and despite all the reassurances I cannot accept that with a new drug there can any substitute for an assessment over time. Experience cannot be accelerated. Since I seem to have an immune system that wards off the `flu and have no intention of breathing over some hapless member of the public, then I think it is reasonable for me to wait a little longer.

The second reason is my reluctance to be put on any state medical register whereby I can be visited and asked why I am not complying with taking further vaccinations in future once we work our way through the Greek alphabet of variants. Whether through general taxation or (as may become the case) private pocket, these vaccinations are making fortunes for Big Pharma and I have no desire to add to their profits.

There`s probably a third reason which is an aversion to being morally blackmailed into being vaccinated and even threatened with being denied public space. If a government is having to go down that line then I assume what`s on offer (vaccine) can`t be all it`s cracked up to be.

sammer
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Tue 27 Jul 14:23

Berry, in answer to your question, we decided not to give our daughter the MMR jag some 12 years ago, as we felt the risks outweighed the benefits.
I`m sure I`d make the same decision with the covid vaccine



Post Edited (Tue 27 Jul 14:23)
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Tue 27 Jul 14:27

I think the "moral blackmail" is more in retaliation for the social media misinformation, which is meaning that some people on the fence are opting not to take it. Both of which are unpalatable I should add.

Nobody should be forced to take a vaccine, but no-one should be dissuaded from taking it on the back of untruths.

At the end of the day though, getting as many people vaccinated as possible is the only way out of this as far as I can see. I`ve not really seen any other long-term solution.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Tue 27 Jul 16:52

Back to lockdowns?
Edit: OK this site won't let me post links....**** it I'm our.
Have at it, get your boosters etc and good luck.

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.

Post Edited (Tue 27 Jul 16:53)
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Parfect68  
Date:   Tue 27 Jul 16:57

Quote:

Berry, Tue 27 Jul 14:09

For those who have taken the vaccine that have kids of 12+ would you be arranging for them to have the vaccine and would you be happy if it was made compulsory in order to attend school? Granted the latter is surely unlikely.

Genuine question, no hidden agenda just curious on how vaccinated people’s viewpoints may differ (if at all) when it comes to their kids.


Good question Berry and one I've been pondering. As it stands my 15yr old step daughter will make up her own mind. As for my other 2, they are below 12, so not up for debate yet and I admit I'm more likely to hold off and understand balance of benefit v risk in that age group more
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Tue 27 Jul 16:58

Georgia Roses video on Instagram I’m sure will not be helping Governments cause of getting the younger generation vaccinated.

I know they are reporting it isn’t directly related to the vaccine itself but it’s a vaccine she may never have really needed to take.

Peoples concerns are real.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Tue 27 Jul 17:20

Quote:

Parfect68, Tue 27 Jul 16:57

Quote:

Berry, Tue 27 Jul 14:09

For those who have taken the vaccine that have kids of 12+ would you be arranging for them to have the vaccine and would you be happy if it was made compulsory in order to attend school? Granted the latter is surely unlikely.

Genuine question, no hidden agenda just curious on how vaccinated people’s viewpoints may differ (if at all) when it comes to their kids.


Good question Berry and one I've been pondering. As it stands my 15yr old step daughter will make up her own mind. As for my other 2, they are below 12, so not up for debate yet and I admit I'm more likely to hold off and understand balance of benefit v risk in that age group more


Thanks both (inc. RTL) and would you be taking other people into consideration, those who are vulnerable for example which your kids could pass the virus onto, would that be a major factor in your decisioning process?

Again no need to answer obviously and no hidden agenda, it’s just me trying to understand peoples thought processes. Adults are considered selfish for not taking it because of others, kids can equally pass the virus on and with government trying to target the youngest they’ll be after the kids next and we may have to make that decision for them.

Post Edited (Tue 27 Jul 17:30)
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Tue 27 Jul 17:42

Quote:

Berry, Tue 27 Jul 14:09

For those who have taken the vaccine that have kids of 12+ would you be arranging for them to have the vaccine and would you be happy if it was made compulsory in order to attend school? Granted the latter is surely unlikely.

Genuine question, no hidden agenda just curious on how vaccinated people’s viewpoints may differ (if at all) when it comes to their kids.


That's a tough question for me to answer as my kids are in their late 30s and my grandkids are all well under 12. At this moment, I think I would give my consent if they were of 2ndry school age and had no underlying health problems.

How I would feel if I was in my mid 40s and they were in the 12-16 age bracket, I don't honestly know.



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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Parfect68  
Date:   Tue 27 Jul 19:55

Quote:

Berry, Tue 27 Jul 17:20

Quote:

Parfect68, Tue 27 Jul 16:57

Quote:

Berry, Tue 27 Jul 14:09

For those who have taken the vaccine that have kids of 12+ would you be arranging for them to have the vaccine and would you be happy if it was made compulsory in order to attend school? Granted the latter is surely unlikely.

Genuine question, no hidden agenda just curious on how vaccinated people’s viewpoints may differ (if at all) when it comes to their kids.


Good question Berry and one I've been pondering. As it stands my 15yr old step daughter will make up her own mind. As for my other 2, they are below 12, so not up for debate yet and I admit I'm more likely to hold off and understand balance of benefit v risk in that age group more


Thanks both (inc. RTL) and would you be taking other people into consideration, those who are vulnerable for example which your kids could pass the virus onto, would that be a major factor in your decisioning process?

Again no need to answer obviously and no hidden agenda, it’s just me trying to understand peoples thought processes. Adults are considered selfish for not taking it because of others, kids can equally pass the virus on and with government trying to target the youngest they’ll be after the kids next and we may have to make that decision for them.


Definitely would take others into consideration and if the evidence comes through conclusively that children are key spreaders it may influence my thinking. I've done all standard vaccines for my kids to date because they were well established with proven safety and efficacy profiles so i was comfortable to make that decision on their behalf. With the relatively early nature of this specific vaccine I feel comfortable making the decision for myself, it was a no brainer on balance of risk for me, but for the kids I need to further understand the risk of covid to them v the vaccine and the statistics around evidence of childhood transmission. My gut feel given we managed to sustain primary school teaching with minimal cases (note I'm not saying no cases) for significant parts of last year, I hope transmission is low. But I qualify that with fact I haven't specifically looked into that, it's only my gut feel. So watch this space.....
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: MikeyLeonard  
Date:   Wed 28 Jul 11:40

Quote:

Rastapari, Tue 27 Jul 16:52

Back to lockdowns?
Edit: OK this site won't let me post links....**** it I'm our.
Have at it, get your boosters etc and good luck.


As in blocked you ? Can't be right, surely ?

Admin ??
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Wed 28 Jul 15:44

on "compulsary" vaccines, step daughter is starting Uni in summer studying mid-wifery and entry comes with a list of medical checks and vaccines must be up to date to enter even aside from COVID

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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 28 Jul 15:51

Quote:

Playup_Pompey, Wed 28 Jul 15:44

on "compulsary" vaccines, step daughter is starting Uni in summer studying mid-wifery and entry comes with a list of medical checks and vaccines must be up to date to enter even aside from COVID


Vaccination against the likes of Hep B has always been mandatory for nursing. It's common sense.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Wed 28 Jul 22:10

[Post Deleted] - Deliberately provoking fellow DAFC.net poster(s)
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: charlie1  
Date:   Wed 28 Jul 22:29

Ffs give it a rest man. You are well beyond tiresome & tedious!
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Mon 2 Aug 12:32

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_6102ad2ae4b000b997df1f17




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 2 Aug 17:49

Quote:

Raymie the Legend, Mon 2 Aug 12:32

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_6102ad2ae4b000b997df1f17
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: charlie1  
Date:   Mon 2 Aug 18:46

Mirrors the views of UK NHS workers.
Yet the anti vaxxers think they are doing the right thing! Maybe change their views if they had to work in such strenuous places!
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 2 Aug 19:43

There's a big difference between an anti-vaccer and someone who does not want to risk taking this particular group of vaccines.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: charlie1  
Date:   Mon 2 Aug 21:17

Then they are anti Covid vaxxers!
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 2 Aug 21:26

Different breed imo. The people not wanting the COVID vaccine are understandable, as are many who wouldn't get a flu jab (why get it if you won't really benefit?) whereas the real anti-vax people will spread all manner of mis-information or half truths. They seem to dedicate their lives to spreading utter tripe.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: charlie1  
Date:   Mon 2 Aug 22:20

Totally agree with what you said but very strong evidence that those unvaccinated are primarily the latest admissions to hospitals.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Tue 3 Aug 14:16

Positive progress

https://apple.news/AsD6BVyYSTiOsjul5irMEwg


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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Tue 3 Aug 14:54

I was diagnosed with Covid at the end of last week and am sitting quarantined at home as I write this. As some of you may know I have been reluctant to be vaccinated in the belief I would be unlikely to catch the virus (clearly I was wrong.) However my attitude has not changed as I will try to explain.

I normally go out to a busy bar twice a week, catching a crowded metro to do so. As a smoker in his mid 60s I presumably come into some higher risk category but never saw the necessity for being vaccinated. My luck ran out last week which is strange, for since my drinking buddies are out of the city I hadn’t been in a bar or on the metro for over two weeks. I only left the apartment to go for my daily jog down by the river, so how did I manage to become infected after surviving 18 months?

I’m not sure but the probability is that I caught the virus from the woman I live with, a lady my age who still works in a call centre and has to travel on the metro to reach her work. She was vaccinated three weeks ago, against her instincts, but necessary for her to remain employed. Far from offering her protection, the vaccine left her open to serious Covid pneumonia reducing her lung capacity by around 50% which has meant a stay in hospital. Unvaccinated me seems to have got off light, just feeling weak, a bit breathless and without taste or smell.

We’re both on the mend but both she and her family are laying responsibility at her having to be injected in the first place. Of course we’ll never know, in fact the opposite might be true: maybe the vaccination helped save her life. I don’t think anybody should be taking the high moral ground either for or against vaccination.

sammer
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Tue 3 Aug 16:04

Sad to hear that Sammer, my wife and I went downhill after 7 days and both ended up in hospital.

No real symptoms, affected my hearing, attacked my kidneys and my wife's infection went into pneumonia.

That was 7 months ago and we are still not back to normal.

Look after yourself!
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Tue 3 Aug 16:24

Get well soon sammer
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Tue 3 Aug 17:04

Take care, sammer.

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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Tue 3 Aug 17:45

A very open and honest post sammer, all the very best.

Post Edited (Tue 03 Aug 17:46)
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Tue 3 Aug 19:32

Thanks to all for your support. It is much appreciated.

sammer
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Tue 3 Aug 19:50

Really sorry to hear this, Sammer. Best wishes for a speedy recovery to you and your lady.



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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Parfect68  
Date:   Tue 3 Aug 20:21

Speedy recovery Sammer. We're currently isolating after my stepdaughter has come for the summer and tested positive 4days into stay. Headache, achy and loss of smell. Fortunately, 5days into isolation husband&I, both double jagged are testing negative daily and were negative on pcr as were wee yins. Keeping everything crossed we continue to be.
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 3 Aug 20:57

Sorry to hear that sammer .. wishing you both a full and speedy recovery

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 3 Aug 23:15

All the best, Sammer. 🙂
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Wed 4 Aug 06:41

Best wishes for a speedy recovery, Sammer and hope you can shake this off, Lo’gelly?




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983


Post Edited (Wed 04 Aug 06:41)
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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Wed 4 Aug 10:11

I`ll join the chorus wishing you and yours well, sammer. Also best wishes to Mr & Mrs Lochgelly.

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 Re: Freedom Day
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Thu 5 Aug 13:27

Mask free horizontal drinking is now permitted, but you have to get legless sitting doon first ..

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