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 Dangerous waters
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Mon 26 Jul 11:01

Some awful tragedies in our lochs and rivers recently, and the local quarries have taken their toll over the years. Without spoiling enjoyment what can be done? I learned to swim in a Cornish river under the guidance of an uncle but I wouldn’t jump in one now, a wee cramp scare off a Majorcan beach put me off going out of my depth ever since.
Maybe strongly worded notices at loch side car parks and picnic spots would help?

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 Re: Dangerous waters
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Mon 26 Jul 11:10

Absolute tragic series of events. Think we need a public education campaign to better inform people of the risks and dangers.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Dangerous waters
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 26 Jul 12:13

The local idiots are down at the Inverkeithing quarry every day diving in. It's nowhere near as deep as they think and there's at least one rusty car and various trolleys and what not down there. It wasn't that long ago someone died there but people seem to have short memories.
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 Re: Dangerous waters
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 26 Jul 12:15

As for what can be done - the proposal was to turn the Inverkeithing quarry into a diving centre. That appears to have been abandoned now in favour of holiday homes. Quite sad tbh. They could have cleared the quarry and made it a good (and safe!) attraction for Inverkeithing in the same way Townhill Loch was cleared and turned into an attraction in the 90s.
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 Re: Dangerous waters
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Mon 26 Jul 12:16

Loch Lomond Saturday night Man Woman and Boy all drowned other boy in intensive care

So sad but why oh why do they still persist after all the warnings and advice

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Dangerous waters
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Mon 26 Jul 17:48

The 11 year old who drowned in Stonehouse on Saturday is from my street in Hamilton.
Him and his 2 pals were absolute terrors. The flat at the bottom of my block was empty for a long time and the 3 of them kept smashing the windows, every time they were replaced they would pan them in again within hours.

Was having a kick about down the park with my kids and him and a his pals maybe 7 in total asked for a game.
We had a good game with them and the lads were actually all really nice kids.

When I was reading about what happened to him I was shocked to find that 26 people had drowned across the UK in this heat wave.

The community where I live are devastated by the loss of this wee boy. He was wild but well liked and it's a tragedy.
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 Re: Dangerous waters
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 26 Jul 19:26

There is no such thing as safe water - a contradiction in terms.

Just some locations are less hazardous than others.

Tragic losses regardless.

We`ve had the grandkids down at Aberdour beach a few times recently - the manned lifeguard station is highly commendable.

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 Re: Dangerous waters
Topic Originator: twin par  
Date:   Mon 26 Jul 21:57

Tragic what happened at loch lomond.But it pains me to say,why the hell were they on a pier, at risk of falling in ,and none of them could swim?
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 Re: Dangerous waters
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Mon 26 Jul 23:20

How could these tragedies be prevented? Mandatory swimming lessons for all kids. In this day and age it is ridiculous that this is not already the case.

It also should be noted that the latest victims are of South Asian ethnicity. For some reason, they seem to account for a high proportion of these types of accidents not just in Britain, but here in Australia. Three young Indian kids drowned at a beach near where I live four years ago. There needs to be a special effort to promote safety awareness in these communities. Almost always these accidents are preventable.

The other aspect is the acute danger that comes with swimming in fresh water. The significant difference in density between salt and fresh water means that you are significantly less buoyant in fresh.

This was brought home to me years ago when I was canoeing on Loch Morar and dug my oar in too hard and turned turtle. I was fully clothed and was surprised by the extent of drag downwards as I plunged head first into the loch. It seemed to take forever to swim back to the surface.

I am a pretty good swimmer, but that was a frightening experience.

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 Re: Dangerous waters
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Mon 26 Jul 23:36

That's interesting Oz, I was searching online and noticed after the Camber Sands drowning, a council worker said in the log "We are again faced with incidents of non-swimming persons of a certain culture that enter the water in great numbers with deadly results", not entirely sure of the numbers behind it all
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 Re: Dangerous waters
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Tue 27 Jul 00:02

If the Government made swimming lessons mandatory there would be absolute outrage from the usual suspects who do what they want

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Dangerous waters
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Tue 27 Jul 00:37

I initially thought it would be down to people being unable to swim but read it's not about being able to swim or not in warm conditions like this.
The majority of the deaths are from a cold shock response when going into cold water from the heat we are currently facing.
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 Re: Dangerous waters
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 27 Jul 08:35

I think under certain circumstances and strong hidden currents even an experienced swimmer would get into difficulty to TBH

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Dangerous waters
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 27 Jul 09:28

"Mandatory swimming lessons for all kids. In this day and age it is ridiculous that this is not already the case."

Easier said than done, the task of getting a significant numbers kids to a pool, linked to the amount of instructor time required to teach them is a considerable logistical exercise.

I use the PEAK swimming pool in Stirling on a relatively regular basis - prior to the pandemic the local Primary schools had regular scheduled visits, and these will commence again when reduced restrictions allow.

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 Re: Dangerous waters
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Tue 27 Jul 10:30

I’m such a feartie that even in a holiday pool I wade to just above waist height and swim side to side …!

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 Re: Dangerous waters
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Tue 27 Jul 11:42

Quote:

sadindiefreak, Tue 27 Jul 00:37

I initially thought it would be down to people being unable to swim but read it's not about being able to swim or not in warm conditions like this.
The majority of the deaths are from a cold shock response when going into cold water from the heat we are currently facing.


I’ve experienced cold water shock in Loch Lomond. I’m a strong swimmer even more so at the time when I was 20. I dived in from a mates boat and quickly realised that due to the shock I had little strength. It took all I had to get back to the boat that was only a few feet away. Never again! The water can feel warm at the edges but I’m sure I read that in a deep loch like Loch Lomond the water only changes by about 3 degrees during the year in the deepest parts.
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 Re: Dangerous waters
Topic Originator: Milos Drizzle  
Date:   Tue 27 Jul 12:20

That's a scary story, allparone. Illustrates just how dangerous freshwater lochs are. I've also heard that the temperature drops significantly within feet of the surface.

This is my signature
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 Re: Dangerous waters
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 27 Jul 12:49

Wow allparone that is scary ... If only we could make people realise

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Dangerous waters
Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy  
Date:   Wed 28 Jul 16:03

RE Asians: You would be genuinely how few of them can swim. Many Japanese, Koreans and Taiwanese don't learn to swim because they live in the city, so why bother? My Mrs is from Osaka and used to go surfing without being able to swim properly. Same applies in a number of other Asian countries as well. When I was teaching, there was also a problem with Muslim kids in that the parents didn't want mixed gender swimming so that plays a role as well.
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 Re: Dangerous waters
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Wed 28 Jul 16:26

Wouldn’t be against mandatory swimming lessons for young kids if you’re referring to me as one of the ‘usual suspects’ da_no_1.

If any of my kids fall into the water, I’d want them to be capable of getting themselves out rather than rely on someone else or the worst case happening.

Once they can do that, I’m less fussed and any further swimming lessons would be down to the kids and whether they enjoy it and want to keep attending.

As for dangerous waters, think the best way for kids is through education . I can swim but wouldn’t say I’m a fully competent swimmer, doing lochs and rivers isn’t something I would ever consider.
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 Re: Dangerous waters
Topic Originator: TAFKA_Super_Petrie  
Date:   Wed 28 Jul 20:48

I was a lifeguard when i worked in Florida c/o Mickey Mouse.

As you can probably imagine Disney didn't leave anything to chance, even having qualifications before hand, they put you through an intense programme prior to letting you work.

Very minor examples but had to pull two people out - both children - and on each occassion it was in relatively shallow water but the problem came from what was mentioned above. If you get a shock your natural reaction is to inhale, secondary you'll look to kick yourself back off the bottom.....or what/where you perceive the bottom be. If that isn't there then you panic and start flailing.

The scary part is splashing and flailing arms looks like kids being kids having fun and it's very difficult to differentiate between that and initial stages of drowning, even more so in man made environment like a pool when theres loads of other kids doing likewise.

If that happens in natural water you've also got silt to consider, very easy to get stuck and the aforementioned panic sets in. Before you know it you can be underwater and swrilled up a whole mush of sand / silt and have zero visibility and lose bearings of where you are and which way it is to the surface.

---------------------------------------------------------------


"People always talk about Ronaldinho and magic, but I didn't see him today. I saw Henrik Larsson; that's where the magic was."
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 Re: Dangerous waters
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Thu 29 Jul 08:44

My 4yr old granddaughter is trying to get swimming lessons just now, nearly impossible through Carnegie!
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 Re: Dangerous waters
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Fri 30 Jul 10:55

“Very little splashing, no waving, and no yelling or calls for help of any kind”

Google “Drowning doesn’t look like drowning” Chilling.

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 Re: Dangerous waters
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 30 Jul 17:41

That`s what I was led to believe. That somebody who is drowning won`t necessarily be flailing around and shouting for help when their heads are above water they are using those opportunities to take air in not yell for help.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Dangerous waters
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Sat 31 Jul 11:18

I see another person sadly lost his life after drowning in Loch Lubnaig. An Indian man, who couldn't swim. Strangely enough, his friend said how they had just heard the news of the woman and kids drowning in Loch Lomond, but then he went out into the danger himself
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