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 Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Fri 10 Sep 21:27

Been very quiet but has now beeen served with legal papers for a sexual assault lawsuit.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 12 Sep 11:31

There`s suggestions in the media that he may try to invoke Diplomatic Immunity to avoid going to the USA.

We could always offer him to the Americans in exchange for Anne Sacoolas - so she can come to the UK to answer for Harry Dunn`s death.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sun 12 Sep 12:01

I don't think legal papers can be issued on Royal property, hence the reason he's living up at Balmoral.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sun 12 Sep 12:06

That can’t be correct… as that would suggest they’re above the law?
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 12 Sep 12:21

Isn`t this currently a civil law suit so it wouldn`t have the same weight behind it as a criminal one? I dunno.
The Queen or sovereign cannot be arrested for any reason however members of the Royal family can be unless they are in the presence of the Queen or within the boundaries of Royal residence.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Sun 12 Sep 12:39

Things must have changed since the days of Charles the First!

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 12 Sep 12:46

Interestingly enough we could potentially have a situation where Prince Charles could kill his mother, and be guilty of murder, and yet at that moment would become King and be immune from prosecution.
Having said that the royals do a tremendous job and we mustn`t knock them.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Sun 12 Sep 15:01

Quote:

veteraneastender, Sun 12 Sep 11:31

There`s suggestions in the media that he may try to invoke Diplomatic Immunity to avoid going to the USA.

We could always offer him to the Americans in exchange for Anne Sacoolas - so she can come to the UK to answer for Harry Dunn`s death.


Not going to happen.
If it did we would need to find out the role her husband pass playing in the UK.
The UK government are not permitted to spy on their own citizens without a court order.
Same goes for the US on their citizens.
To get round this American spy's gather information on British citizens and our spy's do the same for the yanks.
They then exchange the information and so avoid law breaking on a technicality.
The UK Government can not risk it coming out that this is common practice.
This has been going on since before I joined the RAF in 1990 and everyone in the RAF knows it goes on.
I was OK with it as I was of the thinking "if you are not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about."
I changed my mind on this when Dr David Kelly was murdered by MI5.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 12 Sep 15:21

So the MI5 wouldn`t risk spying on thier own citizens without a court order but would risk killing an extremely high profile citizen?

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Sun 12 Sep 17:12

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sun 12 Sep 15:21

So the MI5 wouldn`t risk spying on thier own citizens without a court order but would risk killing an extremely high profile citizen?



If we're talking dodgy deaths then Willie McRae must be up there.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Sun 12 Sep 20:16

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sun 12 Sep 15:21

So the MI5 wouldn`t risk spying on thier own citizens without a court order but would risk killing an extremely high profile citizen?


I'm pretty sure they do spy on their own citizens as well without a court order.
Perhaps the Americans deal with the ones where a court order is turned down.

From information I was told by another guy who was in the RAF with me and was in a position to know some things MI5 were up to I am certain Dr Kelly was murdered by them.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Mon 13 Sep 14:24

Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks like | nolike
Date: Sun 12 Sep 12:46

Interestingly enough we could potentially have a situation where Prince Charles could kill his mother, and be guilty of murder, and yet at that moment would become King and be immune from prosecution.
Having said that the royals do a tremendous job and we mustn`t knock them.


Aye they do a tremendous job of hiding their cash in tax havens.....that`s about it...

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: ParfectXI  
Date:   Mon 13 Sep 17:09

It’s a pity the Queen couldn’t get done for harbouring a criminal. You’d soon see Andy told he has no place at Balmoral! Awful family!

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: QPR_Par  
Date:   Mon 13 Sep 23:31

I read today that his lawyers are arguing that the papers weren’t served correctly and the US courts have no jurisdiction.

They may have a case for the London accusation but are surely on thin ice for the others.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Tue 14 Sep 08:11

This can all be fixed by removing the unfair legal privileges enjoyed by this one family of inbred scroungers.

Why are they allowed to flaunt the law? There's no need for them to be allowed such legal privileges.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 14 Sep 08:15

But they're royals. Surely they're above the law?
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Tue 14 Sep 11:40

Does that mean that we have to storm the palaces to get justice? Because I`m totally up for it if we do.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 14 Sep 17:09

Quote:

QPR_Par, Mon 13 Sep 23:31

I read today that his lawyers are arguing that the papers weren’t served correctly and the US courts have no jurisdiction.

They may have a case for the London accusation but are surely on thin ice for the others.


The London accusations have always puzzled me - the alleged recipient of his attentions was 17.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Tue 14 Sep 17:17

Quote:

veteraneastender, Tue 14 Sep 17:09

Quote:

QPR_Par, Mon 13 Sep 23:31

I read today that his lawyers are arguing that the papers weren’t served correctly and the US courts have no jurisdiction.

They may have a case for the London accusation but are surely on thin ice for the others.


The London accusations have always puzzled me - the alleged recipient of his attentions was 17.


Transported from US with express intention of being sold for sex. Breaks International trafficking laws also the fact he allegedly performed acts she did not consent to.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 14 Sep 18:51

Quote:

sadindiefreak, Tue 14 Sep 17:17

Quote:

veteraneastender, Tue 14 Sep 17:09

Quote:

QPR_Par, Mon 13 Sep 23:31

I read today that his lawyers are arguing that the papers weren’t served correctly and the US courts have no jurisdiction.

They may have a case for the London accusation but are surely on thin ice for the others.


The London accusations have always puzzled me - the alleged recipient of his attentions was 17.


Transported from US with express intention of being sold for sex. Breaks International trafficking laws also the fact he allegedly performed acts she did not consent to.


Plus I think the other charges relate to island activities, where the age of consent was/is 18.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Wed 15 Sep 23:41

The High Court has now agreed to serve the Prince with the papers, under the Hague Service Convention. So time is running out and his lawyers will soon have to decide the response to the action.

Note this is a civil case, not a criminal one, so there is no extradition.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Thu 7 Oct 09:22

Maybe getting away with it ?


Andrew B Brettler, who represents Prince Andrew, had argued at a previous hearing that Ms Giuffre had entered into a "settlement agreement" with Epstein that would end her current legal action,

During the first pre-trial hearing of the case last month, Prince Andrew`s lawyer said the agreement "releases the duke and others from any and all potential liability".

The prince`s lawyers have said in court that Ms Giuffre agreed in 2009 not to sue anyone else connected to Epstein when she settled her damages claim against the billionaire sex offender, who died in prison in 2019.

The precise wording of that deal is currently confidential - sealed by a court.

In a court document filed on Wednesday, US Judge Loretta Preska agreed to a request from Ms Giuffre`s lawyer, David Boies, to provide the duke`s legal team with the document.

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Thu 7 Oct 10:10

Always was going to get away with it, one way or the other.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Thu 7 Oct 10:14

Must be more than one female involved?🤔
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Thu 7 Oct 10:55

I have a feeling there will be a substantial sum of money involved and the whole thing will go away ..

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 7 Oct 11:18

It seems like it may be a case of no legal case to answer as she had already come to a financial settlement. Does nothing to convince anyone of his innocence though. It minds me of the legal advice that it is better to look suspicious than be found guilty.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Bandy  
Date:   Thu 7 Oct 14:33

I hate how money is able expunge crime. I know it`s the world we live in, but it sucks.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 7 Oct 17:05

Ghislaine Maxwell was always a key player in this sordid saga - we might get the truth, or a least some of it, when she goes to either/both trials.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Thu 7 Oct 18:21

It was her lawyer who requested the documents be released to him so I'm thinking what he thinks is contained in them is not.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Thu 7 Oct 20:58

Nothing will come of this, the royals will either make her a financial offer she can't refuse to drop it. Or they will drop her. They are above the law, and they know it
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 8 Oct 08:58

Nah they will just buy a Premiership football club and all sins are forgiven.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Mon 11 Oct 08:29

The Metropolitan Police will not take any further action against the Duke of York following a review prompted by Jeffrey Epstein accuser Virginia Giuffre.


Now there`s a surprise

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Mon 11 Oct 08:38

Well the bloke can now move on with his life and I don`t think there can be anymore questions left to answer.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Mon 11 Oct 10:08

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Mon 11 Oct 08:38

Well the bloke can now move on with his life and I don`t think there can be anymore questions left to answer.


Haha
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Mon 11 Oct 11:15

Who would have thought.

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Mon 11 Oct 11:42

Just for avoidance of doubt I was being sarcastic.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: parsmad68  
Date:   Mon 11 Oct 12:09

This is like Burnistouns sarcasm self help group.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Mon 11 Oct 13:05

Really now? Is it aye? Naawww!

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par  
Date:   Mon 11 Oct 15:17

Why is it a surprise?

What evidence is there to support charges?

The MSM declared word of a well travelled, well paid, well pumped escort?

Don`t get me wrong, I have no doubt PA is a dirty, sleazy, entitled scumbag, but we are talking criminal charges here, where a burden of proof needs to be established...

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Mon 11 Oct 16:31

I`d agree with you on being innocent until proven guilty but when you seemingly hide out in a royal palace to avoid being served legal papers it doesn`t look good.

"The MSM declared word of a well travelled, well paid, well pumped escort?"

I`d also take issue with that because if she was underage then she wasn`t an escort she was the victim of rape. Now she wasn`t underage (although that was barely) when it appears she met Prince Andrew but it could still be argued I think quite convincingly that she was the victim of sex trafficking.
All we have so far to say that she isn`t telling the truth is the MSM word of a well travelled, well paid Royal Prince whose explanation as to why she is wrong was utterly stupid.



Post Edited (Mon 11 Oct 16:39)
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Mon 11 Oct 16:36

The MSM declared word of a well travelled, well paid, well pumped escort?

She is a very credible witness, despite the attempts of thinly veiled rape-apologists to undermine her.

Andrew`s story just doesn`t make any sense whatsoever and is not supported by known facts, whereas hers is perfectly plausible and is not undermined by known facts.

There is clearly something worth further investigation.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Mon 11 Oct 16:40

Wasted my time, if I hadn`t bothered to edit my post i could have just said "100% agree with what Wotsit has said."

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: MDCCCLXXXV  
Date:   Mon 11 Oct 17:14

Andrews story doesn't have to make sense, he has the word prince in front of his name.

Job done

East End Park is a symbol of all that is DAFC.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par  
Date:   Mon 11 Oct 22:22

Oh here comes Wotsit - the champion of any cause...

Credible witness?
More credible than PA maybe, but that`s not setting the bar very high...

Her story is "perfectly plausible"?
Behave min, it`s all over the place.

She`s a grinder out for one last payday.

Further investigation?
Yes, absolutely, if there is any evidence against all the alleged attackers,
not just a civil case for damages against the one most likely to pay up.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 08:33

The part that puzzles me most is .. Why 3 times .. surely once should have been enough for her to keep away from Maxwell ? Why did she go to the other places for the same thing to allegedly happen to her ?

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 08:52

Quote:

Luxembourg Par, Mon 11 Oct 15:17

Why is it a surprise?

What evidence is there to support charges?

The MSM declared word of a well travelled, well paid, well pumped escort?

Don`t get me wrong, I have no doubt PA is a dirty, sleazy, entitled scumbag, but we are talking criminal charges here, where a burden of proof needs to be established...


Agreed. I dont like himbut I dont believe her.
She is an adult porn star now. That has to cast doubt on her credibility.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 08:54

Quote:

Luxembourg Par, Mon 11 Oct 22:22

Oh here comes Wotsit - the champion of any cause...

Credible witness?
More credible than PA maybe, but that`s not setting the bar very high...

Her story is "perfectly plausible"?
Behave min, it`s all over the place.

She`s a grinder out for one last payday.

Further investigation?
Yes, absolutely, if there is any evidence against all the alleged attackers,
not just a civil case for damages against the one most likely to pay up.


Spot on. We can dislike folk sll we like but the law needs to protect us all....including him.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 09:44

So many rape apologists here.

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: MDCCCLXXXV  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 09:57

PARrot, I agree with a lot of things you say on here , but why does it matter what her job is now, no one deserves what happened to her.

East End Park is a symbol of all that is DAFC.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 10:34

It's a common theme.

Children get abused by adults.

Children grow into adults with problems on account of their childhood abuse.

Adults' stories of childhood abuse is ignored or disbelieved on account of the problems they have as adults.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference



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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 11:21

"So many rape apologists here."

Don`t you think it would be best to wait until the allegations are confirmed before making such comments ?

Your track record on previous allegations against prominent figures is hardly impressive.



Post Edited (Tue 12 Oct 15:17)
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 11:35

Quote:

MDCCCLXXXV, Tue 12 Oct 09:57

PARrot, I agree with a lot of things you say on here , but why does it matter what her job is now, no one deserves what happened to her.


If it happened to her is the issue.
If she isnt credible the accused should be protected.

As others have said, why a civil case and why just him?.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 11:49

Quote:

parsfan, Tue 12 Oct 10:34

It's a common theme.

Children get abused by adults.

Children grow into adults with problems on account of their childhood abuse.

Adults' stories of childhood abuse is ignored or disbelieved on account of the problems they have as adults.


Thats all very true but its also true that they are perfectly capable of making stuff up, especially for profit.

I'm not siding with andrew by any means and I do feel for the girl. I understand how abused folk take these paths. Feeling worthlessness etc. However, she has damaged her credibility.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: SergioDuarte  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 12:27

Quote:

PARrot, Tue 12 Oct 08:52

Quote:

Luxembourg Par, Mon 11 Oct 15:17

Why is it a surprise?

What evidence is there to support charges?

The MSM declared word of a well travelled, well paid, well pumped escort?

Don`t get me wrong, I have no doubt PA is a dirty, sleazy, entitled scumbag, but we are talking criminal charges here, where a burden of proof needs to be established...


Agreed. I dont like himbut I dont believe her.
She is an adult porn star now. That has to cast doubt on her credibility.


Aye and I’m the “d1ck” right enough ?
Disgusting comment .
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 12:44

Quote:

PARrot, Tue 12 Oct 08:52

Agreed. I dont like himbut I dont believe her.
She is an adult porn star now. That has to cast doubt on her credibility.


I can't find any evidence supporting your claim she is a porn star.
Do you have any links to confirm this. To clarify to articles not porn
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 12:44

The allegation seems somewhat suspect but so does Prince Andrew's response.

No matter the outcome, he was still keeping company with some VERY dubious characters.

All these allegations should be taken seriously, no matter what the person's current job is.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 12:47

Quote:

sadindiefreak, Tue 12 Oct 12:44

Quote:

PARrot, Tue 12 Oct 08:52

Agreed. I dont like himbut I dont believe her.
She is an adult porn star now. That has to cast doubt on her credibility.


I can't find any evidence supporting your claim she is a porn star.
Do you have any links to confirm this. To clarify to articles not porn


She isn't. She's an anti-traffiking campaigner.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 12:55

No. It was on a news bulletin. Said she is now working in the adult film industry.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 12:59

Quote:

PARrot, Tue 12 Oct 12:55

No. It was on a news bulletin. Said she is now working in the adult film industry.


Well I've searched and can't find anything to support it.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 13:00

Quote:

jake89, Tue 12 Oct 12:44

The allegation seems somewhat suspect but so does Prince Andrew's response.

No matter the outcome, he was still keeping company with some VERY dubious characters.

All these allegations should be taken seriously, no matter what the person's current job is.


Agreed but we can also take on board the fact that he has a right to legal protection too, despite his position and reputation.
If her actions give reasonable cause to doubt her then the accused will benifit from that.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 13:04

Quote:

SergioDuarte, Tue 12 Oct 12:27

Quote:

PARrot, Tue 12 Oct 08:52

Quote:

Luxembourg Par, Mon 11 Oct 15:17

Why is it a surprise?

What evidence is there to support charges?

The MSM declared word of a well travelled, well paid, well pumped escort?

Don`t get me wrong, I have no doubt PA is a dirty, sleazy, entitled scumbag, but we are talking criminal charges here, where a burden of proof needs to be established...


Agreed. I dont like himbut I dont believe her.
She is an adult porn star now. That has to cast doubt on her credibility.


Aye and I’m the “d1ck” right enough ?
Disgusting comment .


No. Its a disgusting trade. Anyone involved in it lacks credibility.

Your mock outrage enhances your D1ck status.

Having said that, after reading Sif's post, Im concerned the report I heard about her being in the adult film industry might not be true.

Ill be quick to apologise if I got it wrong.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 13:06

The only thing I found about her and the porn industry is her joining a campaign to get pornhub shut down.
Strange thing to do if she is a porn star.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 13:09

Quote:

sadindiefreak, Tue 12 Oct 13:06

The only thing I found about her and the porn industry is her joining a campaign to get pornhub shut down.
Strange thing to do if she is a porn star.


Might have fallen for an attempt to discredit her. I cant remember where I got it.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 13:21

Quote:

PARrot, Tue 12 Oct 11:49

Quote:

parsfan, Tue 12 Oct 10:34

It's a common theme.

Children get abused by adults.

Children grow into adults with problems on account of their childhood abuse.

Adults' stories of childhood abuse is ignored or disbelieved on account of the problems they have as adults.


Thats all very true but its also true that they are perfectly capable of making stuff up, especially for profit.

I'm not siding with andrew by any means and I do feel for the girl. I understand how abused folk take these paths. Feeling worthlessness etc. However, she has damaged her credibility.


Thank you, proved my point perfectly.

Perhaps if she hadn't been abused & trafficked as a child she wouldn't have ended up, if true, taking that specific perfectly legal line of employment.

Someone asked why him and not any of the others, perhaps he's the only one she was photographed with? I've no by idea, just speculating, but like in so many things in life you go for the biggest target.

I wonder, how would some of you feel if your daughter was talked into going to some other country to get paid for sex with much older men at the age of 15? That's younger than she was I know, but what if your protestations about it were met with "well it was legal where she was taken to"? Pretty sure you wouldn't be so protective of the older men's rights there.

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The universe is ruled by chance and indifference



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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 13:32

Quote:

parsfan, Tue 12 Oct 13:21

Quote:

PARrot, Tue 12 Oct 11:49

Quote:

parsfan, Tue 12 Oct 10:34

It's a common theme.

Children get abused by adults.

Children grow into adults with problems on account of their childhood abuse.

Adults' stories of childhood abuse is ignored or disbelieved on account of the problems they have as adults.


Thats all very true but its also true that they are perfectly capable of making stuff up, especially for profit.

I'm not siding with andrew by any means and I do feel for the girl. I understand how abused folk take these paths. Feeling worthlessness etc. However, she has damaged her credibility.


Thank you, proved my point perfectly.

Perhaps if she hadn't been abused & trafficked as a child she wouldn't have ended up, if true, taking that specific perfectly legal line of employment.

Someone asked why him and not any of the others, perhaps he's the only one she was photographed with? I've no by idea, just speculating, but like in so many things in life you go for the biggest target.

I wonder, how would some of you feel if your daughter was talked into going to some other country to get paid for sex with much older men at the age of 15? That's younger than she was I know, but what if your protestations about it were met with "well it was legal where she was taken to"? Pretty sure you wouldn't be so protective of the older men's rights there.


It doesn't matter if she was legal age here, was paid for it etc. Even if she consented to sex with him. She claims he then forced her to have anal sex against her will. That's rape.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 14:07

Quote:

PARrot, Tue 12 Oct 13:04

Quote:

SergioDuarte, Tue 12 Oct 12:27

Quote:

PARrot, Tue 12 Oct 08:52

Quote:

Luxembourg Par, Mon 11 Oct 15:17

Why is it a surprise?

What evidence is there to support charges?

The MSM declared word of a well travelled, well paid, well pumped escort?

Don`t get me wrong, I have no doubt PA is a dirty, sleazy, entitled scumbag, but we are talking criminal charges here, where a burden of proof needs to be established...


Agreed. I dont like himbut I dont believe her.
She is an adult porn star now. That has to cast doubt on her credibility.


Aye and I’m the “d1ck” right enough ?
Disgusting comment .


No. Its a disgusting trade. Anyone involved in it lacks credibility.


Is it? The sex trade has been around for a long time. Maybe if it was legalised and governed you wouldn't have young girls getting punted into it,even then that's prostitution. What makes the porn industry such a disgusting trade?


As with drugs, demonising it hasn't and will never work.

Post Edited (Tue 12 Oct 14:08)
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 14:08

Quote:

parsfan, Tue 12 Oct 13:21

Quote:

PARrot, Tue 12 Oct 11:49

Quote:

parsfan, Tue 12 Oct 10:34

It's a common theme.

Children get abused by adults.

Children grow into adults with problems on account of their childhood abuse.

Adults' stories of childhood abuse is ignored or disbelieved on account of the problems they have as adults.


Thats all very true but its also true that they are perfectly capable of making stuff up, especially for profit.

I'm not siding with andrew by any means and I do feel for the girl. I understand how abused folk take these paths. Feeling worthlessness etc. However, she has damaged her credibility.


Thank you, proved my point perfectly.

Perhaps if she hadn't been abused & trafficked as a child she wouldn't have ended up, if true, taking that specific perfectly legal line of employment.

Someone asked why him and not any of the others, perhaps he's the only one she was photographed with? I've no by idea, just speculating, but like in so many things in life you go for the biggest target.

I wonder, how would some of you feel if your daughter was talked into going to some other country to get paid for sex with much older men at the age of 15? That's younger than she was I know, but what if your protestations about it were met with "well it was legal where she was taken to"? Pretty sure you wouldn't be so protective of the older men's rights there.


I agree with you 100%.

That doesnt stop me looking at the prospect she could be a gold digger.
I am only making the point that due to her actions ( I couldnt care if its legal, its still deplorable) she has lost credibility.

I hope the report I saw was false. I would be more than delighted to be wrong in this case. However, the general point I was making stands.

The law must protect the accused as much as the accuser.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 14:14

Mary Magdelene slept with blokes for money and Jesus thought she was great. Not very Christian of you PARrot.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 14:40

Quote:

Grant, Tue 12 Oct 14:14

Mary Magdelene slept with blokes for money and Jesus thought she was great. Not very Christian of you PARrot.


You really didn't put much thought into that.

Classic case of not reading or paying attention to the whole post before responding.

Nothing to do with my judgements. Just a fact that if you get involved in dubious activities you lose credibility in court. Especially if you claim abuse then voluntarily get involved for cash.
That is undeniable.

It doesnt mean I dont have compassion for those who get sucked in.

Although Jesus showed compassion, as he always did, and subsequently forgiveness through repentance, the locals and lawmakers didn't and his association with repentant sinners was a large part of his persecution.

I haven't been able to find the source of my understanding that she got involved in porn, so I am accepting I got that wrong.

My previous posts were based on false information so I apologise and retract them.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 14:52

Quote:

PARrot, Tue 12 Oct 14:40

Quote:

Grant, Tue 12 Oct 14:14

Mary Magdelene slept with blokes for money and Jesus thought she was great. Not very Christian of you PARrot.


You really didn't put much thought into that.

Classic case of not reading or paying attention to the whole post before responding.

Nothing to do with my judgements. Just a fact that if you get involved in dubious activities you lose credibility in court. Especially if you claim abuse then voluntarily get involved for cash.
That is undeniable.

It doesnt mean I dont have compassion for those who get sucked in.

Although Jesus showed compassion, as he always did, and subsequently forgiveness through repentance, the locals and lawmakers didn't and his association with repentant sinners was a large part of his persecution.

I haven't been able to find the source of my understanding that she got involved in porn, so I am accepting I got that wrong.

My previous posts were based on false information so I apologise and retract them.


Bit of light hearted fun.

Fair play for the apology.

FWIW I fully agree with the statement about the law being for the accused, as well as the accuser. We often in this age of the Internet tend to go straight to a guilty vertict and the ramifications of that can be horrendous.

However let's talk hypothetically, if the accuser was involved (perfectly legally) with the adult entertainment industry should she then be looked down upon in the eyes of the law? You reference it as being dubious, but I'm not seing that at all. The law should be capable of looking at the case as it was at the time with the facts they have, what's she has done since then, particularly if it's legal, shouldn't be a factor.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 16:09

Quote:

Grant, Tue 12 Oct 14:52

Quote:

PARrot, Tue 12 Oct 14:40

Quote:

Grant, Tue 12 Oct 14:14

Mary Magdelene slept with blokes for money and Jesus thought she was great. Not very Christian of you PARrot.


You really didn't put much thought into that.

Classic case of not reading or paying attention to the whole post before responding.

Nothing to do with my judgements. Just a fact that if you get involved in dubious activities you lose credibility in court. Especially if you claim abuse then voluntarily get involved for cash.
That is undeniable.

It doesnt mean I dont have compassion for those who get sucked in.

Although Jesus showed compassion, as he always did, and subsequently forgiveness through repentance, the locals and lawmakers didn't and his association with repentant sinners was a large part of his persecution.

I haven't been able to find the source of my understanding that she got involved in porn, so I am accepting I got that wrong.

My previous posts were based on false information so I apologise and retract them.


Bit of light hearted fun.

Fair play for the apology.

FWIW I fully agree with the statement about the law being for the accused, as well as the accuser. We often in this age of the Internet tend to go straight to a guilty vertict and the ramifications of that can be horrendous.

However let's talk hypothetically, if the accuser was involved (perfectly legally) with the adult entertainment industry should she then be looked down upon in the eyes of the law? You reference it as being dubious, but I'm not seing that at all. The law should be capable of looking at the case as it was at the time with the facts they have, what's she has done since then, particularly if it's legal, shouldn't be a factor.


It shouldn't but it would. If facts can be proven it wouldn't but what jury would convict a man for allegedly doing something to someone who then choses to do that very thing for financial reward?

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 16:23

Quote:

PARrot, Tue 12 Oct 16:09

Quote:

Grant, Tue 12 Oct 14:52

Quote:

PARrot, Tue 12 Oct 14:40

Quote:

Grant, Tue 12 Oct 14:14

Mary Magdelene slept with blokes for money and Jesus thought she was great. Not very Christian of you PARrot.


You really didn't put much thought into that.

Classic case of not reading or paying attention to the whole post before responding.

Nothing to do with my judgements. Just a fact that if you get involved in dubious activities you lose credibility in court. Especially if you claim abuse then voluntarily get involved for cash.
That is undeniable.

It doesnt mean I dont have compassion for those who get sucked in.

Although Jesus showed compassion, as he always did, and subsequently forgiveness through repentance, the locals and lawmakers didn't and his association with repentant sinners was a large part of his persecution.

I haven't been able to find the source of my understanding that she got involved in porn, so I am accepting I got that wrong.

My previous posts were based on false information so I apologise and retract them.


Bit of light hearted fun.

Fair play for the apology.

FWIW I fully agree with the statement about the law being for the accused, as well as the accuser. We often in this age of the Internet tend to go straight to a guilty vertict and the ramifications of that can be horrendous.

However let's talk hypothetically, if the accuser was involved (perfectly legally) with the adult entertainment industry should she then be looked down upon in the eyes of the law? You reference it as being dubious, but I'm not seing that at all. The law should be capable of looking at the case as it was at the time with the facts they have, what's she has done since then, particularly if it's legal, shouldn't be a factor.


It shouldn't but it would. If facts can be proven it wouldn't but what jury would convict a man for allegedly doing something to someone who then choses to do that very thing for financial reward?


So it's OK for prostitutes to get raped?
FFS PARrot I know you are Christian but I thought you were one of the ones who actually had a decent moral compass.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 17:01

Quote:

PARrot, Tue 12 Oct 16:09

Quote:

Grant, Tue 12 Oct 14:52

Quote:

PARrot, Tue 12 Oct 14:40

Quote:

Grant, Tue 12 Oct 14:14

Mary Magdelene slept with blokes for money and Jesus thought she was great. Not very Christian of you PARrot.


You really didn't put much thought into that.

Classic case of not reading or paying attention to the whole post before responding.

Nothing to do with my judgements. Just a fact that if you get involved in dubious activities you lose credibility in court. Especially if you claim abuse then voluntarily get involved for cash.
That is undeniable.

It doesnt mean I dont have compassion for those who get sucked in.

Although Jesus showed compassion, as he always did, and subsequently forgiveness through repentance, the locals and lawmakers didn't and his association with repentant sinners was a large part of his persecution.

I haven't been able to find the source of my understanding that she got involved in porn, so I am accepting I got that wrong.

My previous posts were based on false information so I apologise and retract them.


Bit of light hearted fun.

Fair play for the apology.

FWIW I fully agree with the statement about the law being for the accused, as well as the accuser. We often in this age of the Internet tend to go straight to a guilty vertict and the ramifications of that can be horrendous.

However let's talk hypothetically, if the accuser was involved (perfectly legally) with the adult entertainment industry should she then be looked down upon in the eyes of the law? You reference it as being dubious, but I'm not seing that at all. The law should be capable of looking at the case as it was at the time with the facts they have, what's she has done since then, particularly if it's legal, shouldn't be a factor.


It shouldn't but it would. If facts can be proven it wouldn't but what jury would convict a man for allegedly doing something to someone who then choses to do that very thing for financial reward?


So, to convincingly accuse someone of rape you must be celibate?


Nope, not feeling you. What you've said there is very grim.

Post Edited (Tue 12 Oct 17:02)
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 18:15

Quote:

PARrot, Tue 12 Oct 16:09

Quote:

Grant, Tue 12 Oct 14:52

Quote:

PARrot, Tue 12 Oct 14:40

Quote:

Grant, Tue 12 Oct 14:14

Mary Magdelene slept with blokes for money and Jesus thought she was great. Not very Christian of you PARrot.


You really didn't put much thought into that.

Classic case of not reading or paying attention to the whole post before responding.

Nothing to do with my judgements. Just a fact that if you get involved in dubious activities you lose credibility in court. Especially if you claim abuse then voluntarily get involved for cash.
That is undeniable.

It doesnt mean I dont have compassion for those who get sucked in.

Although Jesus showed compassion, as he always did, and subsequently forgiveness through repentance, the locals and lawmakers didn't and his association with repentant sinners was a large part of his persecution.

I haven't been able to find the source of my understanding that she got involved in porn, so I am accepting I got that wrong.

My previous posts were based on false information so I apologise and retract them.


Bit of light hearted fun.

Fair play for the apology.

FWIW I fully agree with the statement about the law being for the accused, as well as the accuser. We often in this age of the Internet tend to go straight to a guilty vertict and the ramifications of that can be horrendous.

However let's talk hypothetically, if the accuser was involved (perfectly legally) with the adult entertainment industry should she then be looked down upon in the eyes of the law? You reference it as being dubious, but I'm not seing that at all. The law should be capable of looking at the case as it was at the time with the facts they have, what's she has done since then, particularly if it's legal, shouldn't be a factor.


It shouldn't but it would. If facts can be proven it wouldn't but what jury would convict a man for allegedly doing something to someone who then choses to do that very thing for financial reward?


That's one of the worst things I've read on here, doesn't matter if someone is a prostitute or porn actress, they still have the right to say no, and it shouldn't matter what their profession is.
On another note it's weird how some of the nastiest people I know are religious
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 19:12

Quote:

PARrot, Tue 12 Oct 16:09

It shouldn't but it would. If facts can be proven it wouldn't but what jury would convict a man for allegedly doing something to someone who then choses to do that very thing for financial reward?


An honest one?
One that follows the judges instructions to ignore that stuff as irrelevant?
One with only a minority of nasty, vindictive people like you on it?

It's pretty easy to see why the sex crime conviction rates are so low with attitudes and prejudices like yours still around.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 19:45

Quote:

sadindiefreak, Tue 12 Oct 16:23

Quote:

PARrot, Tue 12 Oct 16:09

Quote:

Grant, Tue 12 Oct 14:52

Quote:

PARrot, Tue 12 Oct 14:40

Quote:

Grant, Tue 12 Oct 14:14

Mary Magdelene slept with blokes for money and Jesus thought she was great. Not very Christian of you PARrot.


You really didn't put much thought into that.

Classic case of not reading or paying attention to the whole post before responding.

Nothing to do with my judgements. Just a fact that if you get involved in dubious activities you lose credibility in court. Especially if you claim abuse then voluntarily get involved for cash.
That is undeniable.

It doesnt mean I dont have compassion for those who get sucked in.

Although Jesus showed compassion, as he always did, and subsequently forgiveness through repentance, the locals and lawmakers didn't and his association with repentant sinners was a large part of his persecution.

I haven't been able to find the source of my understanding that she got involved in porn, so I am accepting I got that wrong.

My previous posts were based on false information so I apologise and retract them.


Bit of light hearted fun.

Fair play for the apology.

FWIW I fully agree with the statement about the law being for the accused, as well as the accuser. We often in this age of the Internet tend to go straight to a guilty vertict and the ramifications of that can be horrendous.

However let's talk hypothetically, if the accuser was involved (perfectly legally) with the adult entertainment industry should she then be looked down upon in the eyes of the law? You reference it as being dubious, but I'm not seing that at all. The law should be capable of looking at the case as it was at the time with the facts they have, what's she has done since then, particularly if it's legal, shouldn't be a factor.


It shouldn't but it would. If facts can be proven it wouldn't but what jury would convict a man for allegedly doing something to someone who then choses to do that very thing for financial reward?


So it's OK for prostitutes to get raped?
FFS PARrot I know you are Christian but I thought you were one of the ones who actually had a decent moral compass.


Ive no idea how you got that from what I said but im sure you know thats not what I think.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 19:47

Quote:

red-star-par, Tue 12 Oct 18:15

Quote:

PARrot, Tue 12 Oct 16:09

Quote:

Grant, Tue 12 Oct 14:52

Quote:

PARrot, Tue 12 Oct 14:40

Quote:

Grant, Tue 12 Oct 14:14

Mary Magdelene slept with blokes for money and Jesus thought she was great. Not very Christian of you PARrot.


You really didn't put much thought into that.

Classic case of not reading or paying attention to the whole post before responding.

Nothing to do with my judgements. Just a fact that if you get involved in dubious activities you lose credibility in court. Especially if you claim abuse then voluntarily get involved for cash.
That is undeniable.

It doesnt mean I dont have compassion for those who get sucked in.

Although Jesus showed compassion, as he always did, and subsequently forgiveness through repentance, the locals and lawmakers didn't and his association with repentant sinners was a large part of his persecution.

I haven't been able to find the source of my understanding that she got involved in porn, so I am accepting I got that wrong.

My previous posts were based on false information so I apologise and retract them.


Bit of light hearted fun.

Fair play for the apology.

FWIW I fully agree with the statement about the law being for the accused, as well as the accuser. We often in this age of the Internet tend to go straight to a guilty vertict and the ramifications of that can be horrendous.

However let's talk hypothetically, if the accuser was involved (perfectly legally) with the adult entertainment industry should she then be looked down upon in the eyes of the law? You reference it as being dubious, but I'm not seing that at all. The law should be capable of looking at the case as it was at the time with the facts they have, what's she has done since then, particularly if it's legal, shouldn't be a factor.


It shouldn't but it would. If facts can be proven it wouldn't but what jury would convict a man for allegedly doing something to someone who then choses to do that very thing for financial reward?


That's one of the worst things I've read on here, doesn't matter if someone is a prostitute or porn actress, they still have the right to say no, and it shouldn't matter what their profession is.
On another note it's weird how some of the nastiest people I know are religious


You are correct. Nobody said anything to the contrary and I agree with you about nasty religious people too.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 20:02

Quote:

parsfan, Tue 12 Oct 19:12

Quote:

PARrot, Tue 12 Oct 16:09

It shouldn't but it would. If facts can be proven it wouldn't but what jury would convict a man for allegedly doing something to someone who then choses to do that very thing for financial reward?


An honest one?
One that follows the judges instructions to ignore that stuff as irrelevant?
One with only a minority of nasty, vindictive people like you on it?

It's pretty easy to see why the sex crime conviction rates are so low with attitudes and prejudices like yours still around.


You really need to interpret posts more dilligently. Im not giving my opinion on the validity of the testimony or the rights of the accuser. Im pointing out that the accused also has rights.
Also when the accuser does something that brings their credibility into question, it strengthens the defendents case.

I can assure you i have every sympathy for folk who find themselves in such professions through desperation (not through choice) and also agree it does not mean they are to blame for any harm they come to.

Its funny how folk can try to vilify me for criticising the actions of an accuser because of their past proffession or history but have no harm in insisting on someones guilt because of their position or image.

For what its worth I believe he is guilty and should be prosecuted, but he is entitled to the protection of the law as much as the victim is, until it is proven.

Nasty and vindictive eh! Aye that will be me right enough.



Post Edited (Tue 12 Oct 20:05)
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 22:18

Quote:

PARrot, Tue 12 Oct 20:02

Quote:

parsfan, Tue 12 Oct 19:12

Quote:

PARrot, Tue 12 Oct 16:09

It shouldn't but it would. If facts can be proven it wouldn't but what jury would convict a man for allegedly doing something to someone who then choses to do that very thing for financial reward?


An honest one?
One that follows the judges instructions to ignore that stuff as irrelevant?
One with only a minority of nasty, vindictive people like you on it?

It's pretty easy to see why the sex crime conviction rates are so low with attitudes and prejudices like yours still around.


You really need to interpret posts more dilligently. Im not giving my opinion on the validity of the testimony or the rights of the accuser. Im pointing out that the accused also has rights.
Also when the accuser does something that brings their credibility into question, it strengthens the defendents case.
.



People are interpreting your post fine PARrot, it's the bit in bold you seem to be struggling with. It wouldn't have mattered an iota if she was in the adult entertainment industry.

Certainly in the case of rape, it doesn't matter if you then have sex again after it, even for money, it couldn't be less relevant. That's what people are taking issue with, surely you can see that? I don't think your nasty or vindictive, but that was a pretty horrible post.

No one involved in the adult entertainment industry is wanting your sympathy, however.

Quote:

PARrot, Tue 12 Oct 13:04

Quote:

SergioDuarte, Tue 12 Oct 12:27

Quote:

PARrot, Tue 12 Oct 08:52

Quote:

Luxembourg Par, Mon 11 Oct 15:17

Why is it a surprise?

What evidence is there to support charges?

The MSM declared word of a well travelled, well paid, well pumped escort?

Don`t get me wrong, I have no doubt PA is a dirty, sleazy, entitled scumbag, but we are talking criminal charges here, where a burden of proof needs to be established...


Agreed. I dont like himbut I dont believe her.
She is an adult porn star now. That has to cast doubt on her credibility.


Aye and I’m the “d1ck” right enough ?
Disgusting comment .


No. Its a disgusting trade. Anyone involved in it lacks credibility.

.


That just simply isn't correct, if someone is involved in the adult entertainment industry through choice why would they lack credibility? It might not be to your taste, however it's someone's own choice what they do. Evidently there's a market for it.

I just don't get the logic that someone who is in the adult entertainment industry, in your eyes, can't say they've been raped?

Post Edited (Tue 12 Oct 22:24)
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 22:38

........
No. Its a disgusting trade. Anyone involved in it lacks credibility.

.

That just simply isn't correct, if someone is involved in the adult entertainment industry through choice why would they lack credibility? It might not be to your taste, however it's someone's own choice what they do. Evidently there's a market for it.

I just don't get the logic that someone who is in the adult entertainment industry, in your eyes, can't say they've been raped?

I never at any time suggested that.

Rape is the carnal knowledge of a person obtained by another without consent.

Doesnt matter if your marfied, drunk or a porn star, if you say no it is rape.

All i said is it lends credibility to the defense if the accuser is in or joins the sex trade following the incident.
That may not be just but it is true all the same.

Now lets look at the flip side.

Your 17 year old son who is a decent caring young man gets drunk at a party.
He has sex with a girl.
Next day she gets in touch and he says he doesnt want to have a relationship.
She feels rejected and calls rape.

You arent sure. You know your son and you want to believe him but he was drunk. Our characters alter when we are drunk.
You then find out the girl is a porn star. Do you believe your son or the girl?

I think if you say the girl you are lying to yourself.

Could be shes telling the truth and your son went rogue but, you would judge the porn star.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 22:55

Quote:

PARrot, Tue 12 Oct 22:38
.

All i said is it lends credibility to the defense if the accuser is in or joins the sex trade following the incident.
That may not be just but it is true all the same.

.



It's not true though.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Hail2Crail  
Date:   Tue 12 Oct 23:01

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: SergioDuarte  
Date:   Wed 13 Oct 05:20

If you work in adult entertainment you lack credibility?
If you get raped we’ll maybe not believe you .

Very outdated views
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 13 Oct 07:09

This best thing to do here would be to allow the legal process to progress.

I've worked with someone who, on successfully gaining employment elsewhere, raised various grievances about their time in the organisation. These were raised in their last few days. This meant little option to challenge but when it was highlighted that parts were simply not true, they muttered away. If it had followed the grievance process then either action would be taken or this person would have been found out to be a big fibber.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Wed 13 Oct 12:10

Quote:

Grant, Tue 12 Oct 22:55

Quote:

PARrot, Tue 12 Oct 22:38
.

All i said is it lends credibility to the defense if the accuser is in or joins the sex trade following the incident.
That may not be just but it is true all the same.

.



It's not true though.


I’m with Grant on this, where the person works should be irrelevant.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Wed 13 Oct 17:28

Quote:

veteraneastender, Tue 12 Oct 11:21

"So many rape apologists here."

Don`t you think it would be best to wait until the allegations are confirmed before making such comments ?

Your track record on previous allegations against prominent figures is hardly impressive.



I don't know, got Savile right and Cliff ain't dead yet, it'll come.

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 13 Oct 22:22

Savile was first publicly called out as an alleged abuser by Johnny Rotten in 1978, a bit before your time Rasta ?

As for Cliff Richard, please share your credible inside info - nobody else has found an iota of evidence.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 13 Oct 22:56

The issue with false allegations is they damage the real ones. There appears to be no evidence of Cliff Richard being dodgy and all the investigation into him has done is cast doubt on allegations against others.

I suspect the Prince Andrew story is a case of two stories and the truth being somewhere in the middle. Alternatively, better to be assumed to be a rapist than it go to court and be confirmed as one.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Thu 14 Oct 11:10

Hi Parrot.

Virginia Giuffre is not involved in the adult sex industry.

She is, in fact, an activist seeking to protect the rights of people who have been trafficked.

Why would you not double-check something like that before spreading it around?

It`s quite a big difference...

However, even if she were to have become traumatised by her experience as a literal sex slave, then we should probably expect some behaviours which an upstanding Christian businessman such as yourself might not deem appropriate.

This is just a part of how people respond to abuse and the resulting trauma. It doesn`t mean we should discount their experiences.

It`s a matter of record, in fact, that this is a tool used by abusers to gaslight and control their victims; we are forever hearing how an abuser told their victims that there would be no point in reporting their experience to authorities because nobody would believe them.

If you read the report into the Rotherham Child Sex Ring, you will see that there were greater failures around issues of the victims socio economic circumstances ( an eleven year old girl was dismissed as "just a little slag" by police) than the circumstances around the fact that the abusers were of Asian decent as we were being told at the time.

If Giuffre had, as you falsely claimed, become a professional in the adult industry then so what, that doesn`t undermine her claims in any way.

However all of that is completely irrelevant here since your ridiculous attempt at undermining her character wasn`t even true.

You should probably delete the comment, or at least edit it to be honest.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 14 Oct 11:30

I`d rather Parrot didn`t delete his comment as it means the replies won`t necessarily make sense. He made a mistake and anyone reading the thread will be in no doubt of that and to be fair he has apologised for getting it wrong.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Thu 14 Oct 12:00

To be honest I wasn’t really paying an interest into whether she was in the sex industry or not, it was the general opinion that being in the sex industry works against you, which shouldn’t be the case.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Thu 14 Oct 12:41

So now the thread is about whether it`s ok to take off one`s clothes for a camera rather than whether or not a privileged old inbred aristocrat is a sex pest?

Because the first one`s easy, the answer is yes.

The second one is still to be determined, but let`s be honest: he isn`t doing himself any favours by telling obvious bare-faced lies in high profile TV interviews or by hiding from the courts in mummy`s palace.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Thu 14 Oct 16:42

Quote:

Wotsit, Thu 14 Oct 11:10

Hi Parrot.

Virginia Giuffre is not involved in the adult sex industry.

She is, in fact, an activist seeking to protect the rights of people who have been trafficked.

Why would you not double-check something like that before spreading it around?

It`s quite a big difference...

However, even if she were to have become traumatised by her experience as a literal sex slave, then we should probably expect some behaviours which an upstanding Christian businessman such as yourself might not deem appropriate.

This is just a part of how people respond to abuse and the resulting trauma. It doesn`t mean we should discount their experiences.

It`s a matter of record, in fact, that this is a tool used by abusers to gaslight and control their victims; we are forever hearing how an abuser told their victims that there would be no point in reporting their experience to authorities because nobody would believe them.

If you read the report into the Rotherham Child Sex Ring, you will see that there were greater failures around issues of the victims socio economic circumstances ( an eleven year old girl was dismissed as "just a little slag" by police) than the circumstances around the fact that the abusers were of Asian decent as we were being told at the time.

If Giuffre had, as you falsely claimed, become a professional in the adult industry then so what, that doesn`t undermine her claims in any way.

However all of that is completely irrelevant here since your ridiculous attempt at undermining her character wasn`t even true.

You should probably delete the comment, or at least edit it to be honest.


Oh I cant respond in depth to all of that.
Suffice to say in general I agree with you totally.
I was sure I had seen a report that said she had gone into adult films.
I got that wrong and apologised.

The thread did then appear to change to address the issue of credibility.

I think I made it clear I agree that it shouldnt make a difference, but when it comes down to the word of an accuser v an accused in the absense of conclusive evidence, reasonable doubt could be established if the person who claimed sexual abuse for compensation then allowed abuse for profit.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Thu 14 Oct 17:25

Quote:

PARrot, Thu 14 Oct 16:42

Quote:

Wotsit, Thu 14 Oct 11:10

Hi Parrot.

Virginia Giuffre is not involved in the adult sex industry.

She is, in fact, an activist seeking to protect the rights of people who have been trafficked.

Why would you not double-check something like that before spreading it around?

It`s quite a big difference...

However, even if she were to have become traumatised by her experience as a literal sex slave, then we should probably expect some behaviours which an upstanding Christian businessman such as yourself might not deem appropriate.

This is just a part of how people respond to abuse and the resulting trauma. It doesn`t mean we should discount their experiences.

It`s a matter of record, in fact, that this is a tool used by abusers to gaslight and control their victims; we are forever hearing how an abuser told their victims that there would be no point in reporting their experience to authorities because nobody would believe them.

If you read the report into the Rotherham Child Sex Ring, you will see that there were greater failures around issues of the victims socio economic circumstances ( an eleven year old girl was dismissed as "just a little slag" by police) than the circumstances around the fact that the abusers were of Asian decent as we were being told at the time.

If Giuffre had, as you falsely claimed, become a professional in the adult industry then so what, that doesn`t undermine her claims in any way.

However all of that is completely irrelevant here since your ridiculous attempt at undermining her character wasn`t even true.

You should probably delete the comment, or at least edit it to be honest.

, reasonable doubt could be established if the person who claimed sexual abuse for compensation then allowed abuse for profit.


No it couldn't.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 14 Oct 17:57

It maybe could Grant. Not saying it is right but isn`t that why defence lawyers bring up a person`s sexual history?

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Pars Steve  
Date:   Thu 14 Oct 22:01

Long time lurker and VERY infrequent poster - last time was during Jimmy Mac’s reign. Also don’t look at Off-Topic very often, but…. Wow. And I thought that some of the comments on the Football Forum reeked of toxicity and bad taste. The assertions on credibility have left me gobsmacked.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 14 Oct 22:47

It`s an issue that needs addressed as too many sexual assault crimes go unreported as victims think they won`t be believed and/or don`t want their character put through the wringer in court. It is also part of the reason that the conviction rate for rape is pitifully low. Reform obviously needs to happen but how you square those reforms while upholding a defendants right to a fair trial is something I don`t have an answer to.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Thu 14 Oct 22:55

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Thu 14 Oct 22:47

It`s an issue that needs addressed as too many sexual assault crimes go unreported as victims think they won`t be believed and/or don`t want their character put through the wringer in court. It is also part of the reason that the conviction rate for rape is pitifully low. Reform obviously needs to happen but how you square those reforms while upholding a defendants right to a fair trial is something I don`t have an answer to.


The answer is for men to rape fewer women.

For that to happen the society we live in has to change in a fundamental way so that the sexual objectification of women isn't normalised.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par  
Date:   Fri 15 Oct 19:06

Quote:

Wotsit, Thu 14 Oct 22:55

The answer is for men to rape fewer women.


WTAF????

FEWER? So some is ok, just not all of it?
You’re sick!

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 16 Oct 11:29

There`s one aspect of the traffiking claims that doesn`t appear to be consistent with that obnoxious trade.

By its very nature the victims are closely contolled by their minders etc.

In 2002 Maxwell funded Ms.Guiffre, then aged 19, to travel unescorted to Thailand to attended a professional masseuse training course.

Of course it could be viewed as a gross error of judgement by the "Lady Ghaislaine"..... as the subject met her husband to be there - and married him in quick time.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: ParsAreTheLoveOfMyLife  
Date:   Sat 16 Oct 22:14

Interesting view to have, that someone deserves to be raped because of their profession.

Prince Andrew is guilty... Anyone with half a brain can see he's used his status to take advantage of young women. People who defend him are either nonces themselves, union jack shaggers, tories, or all of the above. No exceptions.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Sun 17 Oct 00:00

Interesting point, well made, "Parsaretheloveofmylife"
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sun 17 Oct 06:02

Quote:

ParsAreTheLoveOfMyLife, Sat 16 Oct 22:14

Interesting view to have, that someone deserves to be raped because of their profession.

Prince Andrew is guilty... Anyone with half a brain can see he's used his status to take advantage of young women. People who defend him are either nonces themselves, union jack shaggers, tories, or all of the above. No exceptions.


Who has that view? Nothing ive read on here suggests that.

Forget who the defendant is. The law has to defend all defendants regardless of status, equally as much as victims. Hard to take but neccessary to protect us all from false accusations.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 17 Oct 10:43

Quote:

ParsAreTheLoveOfMyLife, Sat 16 Oct 22:14

Interesting view to have, that someone deserves to be raped because of their profession.

Prince Andrew is guilty... Anyone with half a brain can see he's used his status to take advantage of young women. People who defend him are either nonces themselves, union jack shaggers, tories, or all of the above. No exceptions.


PATLOML - Did you embrace all the allegations made against Leon Brittan, Ted Heath, Granville Janner, Harvey Proctor and Lord Bramall etc. with the same objectivity ?

Post Edited (Sun 17 Oct 10:51)
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Sun 17 Oct 14:39

Zero is fewer Lux.

No need to get in a tizzy.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: dave67  
Date:   Sun 17 Oct 20:55

Please remember we have female members on the forum

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Sun 17 Oct 22:08

Quote:

Wotsit, Sun 17 Oct 14:39

Zero is fewer Lux.

No need to get in a tizzy.


Fewer also indicates more than zero. It is a pretty shocking post to be honest and the response to the challenge isn’t much better.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Milos Drizzle  
Date:   Sun 17 Oct 23:07

Surely Wotsit's comment was just reflecting the fact that realistically it will never be zero (sadly), and the response was aware of that, and was tongue-in-cheek? Storm in a teacup, methinks.

This is my signature
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 17 Oct 23:07

People should just stop raping people fullstop.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Mon 18 Oct 02:54

Quote:

Berry, Sun 17 Oct 22:08

Quote:

Wotsit, Sun 17 Oct 14:39

Zero is fewer Lux.

No need to get in a tizzy.


Fewer also indicates more than zero. It is a pretty shocking post to be honest and the response to the challenge isn’t much better.


You're being silly now, although I'm happy to discuss it anyway just not in a thread whose topic is very serious.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sat 30 Oct 09:46

From Aunty :-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59099346

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Sat 30 Oct 10:45

Could throw some black cards at a couple posters in this thread. Disgusting reading
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 30 Oct 11:05

Quote:

Buspasspar, Sat 30 Oct 09:46

From Aunty :-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59099346


Ref. this - there was a key legal ruling just a few days ago in the US.

A New York District Court judge ruled that details of the 2009 settlement agreement between Giuffre (Roberts as was) and Epstein were to remain closed.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 30 Nov 21:21

Oh Jings :-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59484332

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 2 Dec 09:20

Aircraft passenger manifests will confirm who was onboard in respect of flights using US airspace - mandatory under federal regulations.

I believe these are available in the public domain ?
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Thu 2 Dec 11:12

Aircraft passenger manifests will confirm who was onboard in respect of flights using US airspace - mandatory under federal regulations.

From what I can tell Epstein wasn`t all that bothered about breaking regulations.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 2 Dec 15:55

I would assume the aircraft’s captain is responsible for such legal records.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: parsmad68  
Date:   Thu 2 Dec 16:06

It would be interesting to see the cross examination of the pilot as to how much he knew was going on. Is it possible to imagine he never left the cockpit in all his hours of flying that scumbag Epstein around the globe. Like he never ever needed a pee? I suppose since Prince Andrew doesn’t sweat, it is possible….
I suppose he must say this so not to be held accountable in some way.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Thu 2 Dec 19:22

Quote:

parsmad68, Thu 2 Dec 16:06

It would be interesting to see the cross examination of the pilot as to how much he knew was going on. Is it possible to imagine he never left the cockpit in all his hours of flying that scumbag Epstein around the globe. Like he never ever needed a pee? I suppose since Prince Andrew doesn’t sweat, it is possible….
I suppose he must say this so not to be held accountable in some way.


I`d imagine Epstein would have got the pilot some freebies, which would ensure he kept quiet. The pilot would be unlikely to get the law on his boss if he himself had taken part in sex with someone underage
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Tue 14 Dec 17:23

Oh dear!🤔😷😲😲😲

https://www.newsweek.com/prince-andrew-lawyer-says-accuser-was-above-new-york-age-consent-jeffrey-epstein-virginia-giuffre-1659134
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Tue 14 Dec 17:33

So the new line from his lawyers is that the 41 year old prince maybe had "consensual" sex with a 17 year old trafficked "adult"?



Post Edited (Tue 14 Dec 17:34)
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: dd23  
Date:   Tue 14 Dec 17:38

That was how I read it too, Wotsit.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 14 Dec 18:12

Most in the UK would consider over 16 to be legal so I don`t think that`s what people are outraged about. I think it`s more the old man-young girl thing combined with the small matter of trafficking and being involved with a convicted sex criminal...but, yeah, technically she was "legal" so I`m sure we`ll forget about it.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Tue 14 Dec 18:28

In his TV interview he claimed to have never met her.
Now his lawyers are claiming sex was consensual.
He is now a proven liar. Bet he`s sweating now.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Wed 15 Dec 08:24

Of course, he`ll get away with it, the rules are only for the plebs.
I see the usual sticking up for him, I question their character.

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par  
Date:   Wed 15 Dec 10:32

Not at all - you read what you want to read…

There isn’t even a defence there, it’s an attempt to say there is no case to defend.

He is being accused of having sex with an underage girl (HE is not accused of any trafficking that may have taken place).

The position is simple - IF she was NOT underage, then the question of ‘did he / didn’t he’ is no longer relevant as the charge is incompetent.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Wed 15 Dec 11:12

I don`t think he is accused of that or at least not only that. Isn`t he also accused of having sex with someone who was trafficked over international border for that explicit purpose?

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 15 Dec 12:30

Is anybody clear on why Ms.Guiffre (as was) isn`t testifying in the Ghislaine Maxwell trial ?

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Wed 15 Dec 13:33

The allegation is that Andrew had sex with her without her consent.

If she was underage then she would only have to prove that sex took place since it cannot legally have been consensual, however if she was legally of age then she would also have to prove that she didn`t consent - a much more difficult task


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 15 Dec 16:13

Can see where is defence is going but surely it should be easy enough to defend against something that did not happen...unless it DID happen!

All this suggests is that he did have sex with her, but she was capable of offering consent.

His reputation is toast no matter the outcome. I know a lot of people have a lot of time for the Royals but it`s the 21st century.

Chuck the Royals
Chuck the Lord`s
Review Westminster.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Thu 16 Dec 13:13

Quote:

jake89, Wed 15 Dec 16:13

Can see where is defence is going but surely it should be easy enough to defend against something that did not happen...unless it DID happen!

All this suggests is that he did have sex with her, but she was capable of offering consent.

His reputation is toast no matter the outcome. I know a lot of people have a lot of time for the Royals but it`s the 21st century.

Chuck the Royals
Chuck the Lord`s
Review Westminster.


His reputation was toast before this happened.
I like most of the royals.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Thu 16 Dec 14:40

Her age shouldn`t have any baring in it at all. She was groomed as a child, it shouldn`t really be any defence that she had by then reached the age of 17, so was then old enough for an old man to do what he liked with her. He couldn`t have been that stupid to not know what he was doing was wrong.
The people that are defending him and attacking her.... Imagine he did that to your daughter
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par  
Date:   Thu 16 Dec 16:00

His reputation most definitely IS toast, and irreparable even if he gets out of these allegations…

However - I don’t agree that this is an admission, it’s a lawyer stating that if she was not underage, then there cannot have been sex with a minor, regardless of whether he was a dirty sleazebag with younger (but NOT underage) girls or not.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Thu 16 Dec 17:25

Agree with both red-star and Lux views on it.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 16 Dec 18:28

Agree with you Lux but it`s a case of mud sticks. I doubt anyone is too bothered about her age really. The suggestion is still he`s a dirty old man with a penchant for younger girls.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 17 Dec 11:38

Interesting article.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/virginia-giuffre-ghislaine-maxwell-trial-b1973266.html

A key witness absent from the trial ?

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 29 Dec 22:32

Maxwell found guilty on 5 of the 6 charges.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Thu 30 Dec 07:38

Quote:

veteraneastender, Wed 29 Dec 22:32

Maxwell found guilty on 5 of the 6 charges.


Great to see. So much for all the conspiracy theorists that she would never live to see trial though

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/dec/29/ghislaine-maxwell-sex-trafficking-trial-verdict?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Thu 30 Dec 09:13

From Aunty :-

The most obvious and important thing to bear in mind about Maxwell`s conviction is that it applies only to what she did. Nobody else was on trial.

The Duke of York is not facing a criminal prosecution in the United States. He`s being sued by Virginia Roberts Giuffre, one of Epstein`s victims.

In fact, the trial heard no evidence that Prince Andrew was ever allegedly involved in wrongdoing.

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 30 Dec 17:47

I’m wondering how she was found Not Guilty on that single charge ?
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Thu 30 Dec 18:06

Flummoxed me as well vee

Enticement of an individual under the age of 17 to travel with intent to engage in illegal sexual activity.

Maybe this :-

In their case, the state focused on alleged crimes between 1994 and 2004, during which time Maxwell, according to the indictment, “assisted, facilitated, and contributed to Jeffrey Epstein’s abuse of minor girls by, among other things, helping Epstein to recruit, groom, and ultimately abuse victims known to Maxwell and Epstein to be under the age of 18.”

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Thu 30 Dec 19:03

Maybe the prosecution simply failed to provide evidence relating to the enticement to travel? It is a clear but subtle difference from the other charges which were mostly about conspiracy and direct involvement rather than enticement were they not?


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Thu 30 Dec 19:22



He invited some interesting people to his daughter`s birthday party.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Thu 30 Dec 19:25

Quote:

Wotsit, Thu 30 Dec 19:22



He invited some interesting people to his daughter`s birthday party.


There was almost certainly more than 3 sex offenders there. 🤔
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Thu 30 Dec 19:53

I liked this from one of the survivors, "Even those with great power and privilege will be held accountable when they sexually abuse and exploit the young."

I’m sure there are a few who will be getting in touch with their lawyers soon

Post Edited (Thu 30 Dec 19:54)
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Thu 30 Dec 23:56

... especially if, as rumoured, she spills the beans for a reduced sentence.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference



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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Fri 31 Dec 10:12

Her lawyers have now asked him to provide proof of his inability to sweat. Haha, bet he`s sweating now. I look forward to seeing him in court, on a treadmill proving his point. To be honest his story is littered with what seem to be lies. I`m sure it wouldn`t be too hard to prove he was or wasn`t at Pizza Express as well. Hope Maxwell spills the beans before her impending suicide. Hope they all get what is coming to them.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par  
Date:   Fri 31 Dec 10:39

Quote:

red-star-par, Fri 31 Dec 10:12

Her lawyers have now asked him to provide proof of his inability to sweat. Haha, bet he`s sweating now. I look forward to seeing him in court, on a treadmill proving his point. To be honest his story is littered with what seem to be lies. I`m sure it wouldn`t be too hard to prove he was or wasn`t at Pizza Express as well. Hope Maxwell spills the beans before her impending suicide. Hope they all get what is coming to them.


Has she provided any proof of her allegations?

That would be a rather large ‘nope’.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 31 Dec 11:29

The `Pizza Express` story intrigued me. Was it in Woking? You would have thought if you were in there when PA was allegedly there you wouldn`t forget it and you would think the media, most of which are obsessed by the royals, would be quick to try and trace any witnesses.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Fri 31 Dec 11:45

Quote:

Luxembourg Par, Fri 31 Dec 10:39

Quote:

red-star-par, Fri 31 Dec 10:12

Her lawyers have now asked him to provide proof of his inability to sweat. Haha, bet he`s sweating now. I look forward to seeing him in court, on a treadmill proving his point. To be honest his story is littered with what seem to be lies. I`m sure it wouldn`t be too hard to prove he was or wasn`t at Pizza Express as well. Hope Maxwell spills the beans before her impending suicide. Hope they all get what is coming to them.


Has she provided any proof of her allegations?

That would be a rather large ‘nope’.


Her story holds up to scrutiny, and you can be assured that it has definitely been scrutinised.

His definitely does not, which is why the focus of his case has been the avoidance of scrutiny.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 31 Dec 13:30

"Her story holds up to scrutiny, and you can be assured that it has definitely been scrutinised."

Then why did she not appear as a witness in the Maxwell trial ?

The Netflix documentary is worth watching, I didn`t realise James Patterson was in the production team until he appeared on screen.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Fri 31 Dec 13:42

The prosecution in the Maxwell trial took the decision to focus on Maxwell`s crimes without distracting the jury with other names like Dershowitz or Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. I think that this was wise of them.

She certainly hasn`t made any outlandish claims about never meeting people whom she is photographed with then claiming the photo is fake.

Or that she can`t sweat.

Or that she was elsewhere when there`s clear evidence that it was a lie.

Or uncountable other clear and obvious lies.

Basically, if Virginia had as many holes in her story as Andrew has in his we`d not have any issue because she would very obviously be spouting absolute bullcrap and folk would be decrying her from the rooftops.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 31 Dec 13:55

"The prosecution in the Maxwell trial took the decision to focus on Maxwell`s crimes without distracting the jury with other names like Dershowitz or Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. I think that this was wise of them."

Or maybe they were reluctant to let her face cross examination in case the claimed inconsistencies in her story were brought into focus ?

She was clearly happy to be featured in that Netflix production.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Fri 31 Dec 14:01

Or maybe they were reluctant to let her face cross examination in case the claimed inconsistencies in her story were brought into focus ?

The prosecution in the Maxwell case has been very clear about their strategy. Any other conclusion is speculative at best.

Andrew is probably super keen to tell his story in court though, right? Take the stand and clear his name?


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 31 Dec 15:01

"Any other conclusion is speculative at best."

Of course it`s speculative - that`s why her failure to stand up in court as a witness in a case where she is a major player raise questions.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Fri 31 Dec 18:18

She didn`t "fail" to appear, she wasn`t asked. on that occasion.

Folk don`t just turn up at court and offer themselves, that`s not how it works.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 31 Dec 23:01

OK - how about her abscence as a key witness raise questions ?

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 2 Jan 18:54

I see the Federal judge in the civil suit has recently dismissed PA`s lawyers` attempts to have the case against him dropped on the grounds of Ms.Guiffre`s citizenship/residency status.

Judge Kaplan to rule further in a couple of days.

Did somebody say something about Royal prespiration............ ?

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Sun 2 Jan 19:53

His lawyers say that he can`t provide documents relating to his alleged inability to sweat.

Or any evidence to show that he was at Pizza Express during the day in question.

Guiffre`s lawyers have called six witnesses who they claim will confirm that she and Andrew have indeed met.

I see also that Ms Guiffre is to give a victim statement in the Maxwell trial.

No wonder he is sweating.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Sun 2 Jan 20:05

You would think an innocent man would want nothing more than to get in to court, produce the necessary evidence to clear his name, and then get on with the rest of his life. Instead he seems to want to hide behind Mummy, while instructing his lawyers to find any loophole they can to get him out of this. You would almost think he had something to hide
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par  
Date:   Mon 3 Jan 12:52

Quote:

red-star-par, Sun 02 Jan 20:05

You would think an innocent man would want nothing more than to get in to court, produce the necessary evidence to clear his name, and then get on with the rest of his life. Instead he seems to want to hide behind Mummy, while instructing his lawyers to find any loophole they can to get him out of this. You would almost think he had something to hide


Would want nothing more than to get to an impartial court where there is the slightest chance of a fair trial?
Clearly not the case in this ‘trial by media’ circus.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Mon 3 Jan 14:31

Did Andrew`s interview not get shown on Luxembourg TV?


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: dd23  
Date:   Mon 3 Jan 15:39

Quote:

Wotsit, Mon 03 Jan 14:31

Did Andrew`s interview not get shown on Luxembourg TV?


😂😂😂😂
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Mon 3 Jan 19:05

Apparently, Giuffre settled on 500k from Epstein in 2009 in return for not making any claims against Epstein or anyone concerned ?
Does this mean Andrew is off the hook?




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983


Post Edited (Mon 03 Jan 19:05)
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Mon 3 Jan 19:43

Paying off the victims of crime so they drop their complaint doesn`t sit right with me. Justice needs to be done
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Mon 3 Jan 20:15

Agreed… just feels like yet another abuse of their power
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Mon 3 Jan 22:02

Quote:

Raymie the Legend, Mon 3 Jan 19:05

Apparently, Giuffre settled on 500k from Epstein in 2009 in return for not making any claims against Epstein or anyone concerned ?
Does this mean Andrew is off the hook?


That seems to be his legal team`s position.

Looks like an admission of guilt to me if that`s his defence.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference



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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: DBA  
Date:   Tue 4 Jan 09:04

Quote:

parsfan, Mon 3 Jan 22:02

Quote:

Raymie the Legend, Mon 3 Jan 19:05

Apparently, Giuffre settled on 500k from Epstein in 2009 in return for not making any claims against Epstein or anyone concerned ?
Does this mean Andrew is off the hook?


That seems to be his legal team`s position.

Looks like an admission of guilt to me if that`s his defence.


Not really an admission of guilt - purely a legal mechanism to prevent even having to answer a question on the charges.

Dodgy dealings all over the place. Wouldn`t surprise me if Andrew had a hand in the 2009 payoff.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 4 Jan 09:14

Ach weel .. at least he`ll get to keep all his medals

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 4 Jan 12:06

The 2009 deal was a civil action, so it did not preclude Ms.Guiffre from continuing a campaign to have criminal charges raised.

The state of Florida and the Federal authorities have mismanaged that from what appears to be reported.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Tue 4 Jan 15:56

Judge ain`t having any of his lawyers approach!
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Tue 4 Jan 18:49

Whatever the judge decides, I`m not comfortable with a situation where a victim of sex trafficking is held to a deal with a dead paedophile to not go after said dead paedophile`s fellow paedophiles.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Tue 4 Jan 18:56

Do you mean sexual assault and alleged wotsit?
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Tue 4 Jan 19:13

I`m sure that it is reasonable to assume that Epstein`s circle engaged in underage sex with trafficked girls Ipswich? We just don`t currently know the names of any of the individuals involved in these specific acts, other than Epstein himself.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Thu 6 Jan 10:46

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/prince-andrew-not-ruled-pay-234929228.html

Ah well mummy will pay that, or the tax payer?🤔🤬🤬🤬
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Thu 6 Jan 13:55

I wonder how long it will be until Royal boot-lickers feel comfortable lecturing us again about how the Royals are important role models for the nation?


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Thu 6 Jan 14:09

Perhaps he can sell his £17m chalet in the Alps, or whatever it is.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Thu 6 Jan 16:16

when you want to have an unelected and hereditary monarchy to rule over us… you have to except that some of them will abuse that power and privilege we afford them and not be fit to be a head of state or an honest and fair representative for the country… and there’s nothing you can do about it.

I’m sure the pro monarchists will make excuses, say it’s all hearsay and gloss over the fact that he’s going to potentially pay off someone who it looks more and more like he had sex with when they were essentially a vulnerable child flown over to meet him and they were a powerful/influential/rich middle aged man

I wonder if the thought crossed his mind that what he was doing was wrong during the event or maybe even afterwards?

Post Edited (Thu 06 Jan 16:18)
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 6 Jan 18:03

By law of averages there`s bound to be a few wronguns in the Royal Family. Same with any group/family.

The bigger issue for me is why they still exist. I`ve little issue with them as individuals (I don`t know them to judge) but I disagree with the concept that I am ruled over by someone based on the lineage.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 7 Jan 12:33

"Perhaps he can sell his £17m chalet in the Alps, or whatever it is."

Verbier - Switzerland.

https://metro.co.uk/2022/01/07/prince-andrew-selling-17000000-ski-chalet-as-queen-wont-pay-legal-bills-15879606/

Oh dear, how sad !!!

The Sun now reporting it has been sold - but he still has to settle up with a third party to whom he owes a reported £7 million in connection with the sale in 2014.



Post Edited (Fri 07 Jan 12:40)
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Fri 7 Jan 12:58

Shame.

He won`t even be able to sell it for many times its value in return for favourable treatment in his role as a "business ambassador."

(I put that in scare quotes because the term is apparently a euphemism for arms dealer)


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 9 Jan 11:54

Carolyn Andriano who was a key prosecution witness v Maxwell features in the Daily Mail.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10380313/Victim-waives-claims-Virginia-Giuffre-told-slept-Duke-York-London.html

Now all the other major newspapers have latched on.

Also reports that Maxwell`s defence lawyers may be calling for a retrial due to juror irregularities.

This sordid mess just gets worse.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Wed 12 Jan 14:39

Is he going to pay for her to drop charges I wonder.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Wed 12 Jan 15:33

From Aunty :-

Prince Andrew is to face a civil case in the US over allegations he sexually assaulted a woman when she was 17.

Virginia Giuffre is suing the prince claiming he abused her in 2001.

His lawyers said the case should be thrown out, citing a 2009 deal she signed with convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. But a New York judge ruled that the claim could be heard.

He has consistently denied the claims. Buckingham Palace said it would not comment on an ongoing legal matter.

The motion to dismiss the lawsuit was outlined in a 46-page decision by Judge Lewis A Kaplan of the United States District Court for the Southern District of New York.

It means the case against the Duke of York, 61, could be heard later this year.

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 12 Jan 16:27

Showtime !!!

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Thu 13 Jan 17:38

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59987935
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Thu 13 Jan 17:45

He`ll save a fortune on Duraglit

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: MDCCCLXXXV  
Date:   Thu 13 Jan 18:02

Please change heading to Andrew Admin

East End Park is a symbol of all that is DAFC.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Ghoulz  
Date:   Thu 13 Jan 18:55

LMFAO!

Best post of the year ... albeit only 13 days in ...

Your friendly neighbourhood Ghoulz.


The Whole Story of The Famous Kinema Ballroom
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Thu 13 Jan 19:10

The Andrew Formerly Known as Prince.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Thu 13 Jan 19:27

Superb 1885 :-))

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 13 Jan 19:43

There will be a whean of medals and uniforms on Ebay soon !!!

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Thu 13 Jan 20:44

If Andrew moves to Ibrox, can he keep his titles ?




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 14 Jan 15:16

Quote:

Raymie the Legend, Thu 13 Jan 20:44

If Andrew moves to Ibrox, can he keep his titles ?


Calls now for him to be stripped of his Duke of York title.

Would that mean Fergie being demoted as well ?

She and the two girls are distraught - no more ski chalet jaunts on Daddy’s tab.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Fri 14 Jan 16:12


Would that mean Fergie being demoted as well ?


He`ll still be Sir Alex surely?


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Fri 14 Jan 16:19

:-)) ^^^^^

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 14 Jan 16:50

"He`ll still be Sir Alex surely?"

Not sure Cathy will be want her husband being linked to The Duchess of York !!!

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Fri 14 Jan 17:36

But he has now lost a series of UK military titles:

Colonel of the Grenadier Guards - one of the most senior infantry regiments in the British army. He took this role over from his father Prince Philip in 2017
Honorary air commodore of RAF Lossiemouth
Colonel-in-chief of the Royal Irish Regiment
Colonel-in-chief of the Small Arms School Corps
Colonel-in-chief of The Royal Lancers (Queen Elizabeth`s Own)
Colonel-in-chief of the Yorkshire Regiment
Commodore-in-Chief of the Fleet Air Arm
Royal colonel of the Royal Highland Fusiliers
Royal colonel of the Royal Regiment of Scotland
He has also lost a number of overseas honorary military titles:

Colonel-in-Chief of the Queen`s York Rangers (Canada)
Colonel-in-Chief of the Royal Highland Fusiliers of Canada
Colonel-in-Chief of the Princess Louise Fusiliers (Canada)
Colonel-in-Chief of the Royal New Zealand Army Logistic Regiment

Prince Andrew retains his service role as a Vice-Admiral in the Royal Navy.
His big chance to do a Robert Maxwell

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Fri 14 Jan 19:21

How could anybody without a shiny brass neck go around seriously using titles like that anyway, when they got them off their mum?


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: MDCCCLXXXV  
Date:   Fri 14 Jan 20:54

Jeezo, he`s been stripped of more titles than Italian football clubs

East End Park is a symbol of all that is DAFC.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 14 Jan 23:14

Presumably he`ll get to keep the gongs he actually earned in naval service ?

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sat 15 Jan 08:36

He didn`t `earn` any!

If you or I joined the navy, the amount of time /effort and work we`d have to do to reach vice admiral is ridiculous - and he didn`t event so a minute percentage of that
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 15 Jan 12:47

So he never served in the Falklands as helo jockey or clocked up 22 years in the RN ?
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh  
Date:   Sat 15 Jan 12:59

I doubt he will be stripped of his Duke of York title unless he is convicted of something.

Poor moral judgment isn`t enough to lose that title. One of his predecessors had ten thousand men and he still got to keep it.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sat 15 Jan 13:39

Quote:

veteraneastender, Sat 15 Jan 12:47

So he never served in the Falklands as helo jockey or clocked up 22 years in the RN ?


I am standing by what I said... You or I putting in the same time /effort as he did would not have reached that rank - not even close
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 15 Jan 13:59

"I am standing by what I said... You or I putting in the same time /effort as he did would not have reached that rank - not even close."

Don`t confuse the honorary titles, which are dished out to the royals willy nilly, with any that they have actually achieved by service.

Andrew is an arrogant erse and deserves what is coming down the line - but that apart, he did earn the service and campaign gongs etc.

I doubt if you or I would have gotten our pilots wings, passed the Royal Marines All Arms Commando Training Course, served in a warzone, commanded a RN warship, acted as an instructor in helicopter operations or made the substantive rank he achieved in 22 years.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Sat 15 Jan 14:12

I don`t think it would be churlish of a person to claim that Andrew`s navy career was not uninfluenced by the genitals he emerged from.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 15 Jan 14:31

"I don`t think it would be churlish of a person to claim that Andrew`s navy career was not uninfluenced by the genitals he emerged from."

Like when the Queen interceded in 1982 to "persuade" certain other parties that Andrew was to go to the Falklands on HMS Invincible and take his chances like the other serving RN personnel onboard ?

Thatcher`s cabinet did not want him to go, for obvious reasons.

He went, performed his duties, and that`s why he is entitled to wear the campaign medal.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sat 15 Jan 15:32

Andrew the p*ss artist formerly known as Prince!🤔
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sat 15 Jan 17:24

Gaun yersel Andy .. From Aunty :-

The Duke of York`s lawyers want to question a psychologist who treated the woman accusing him of sexual assault, claiming she may "suffer from false memories".

The legal team argue Ms Giuffre, now 38, "may suffer from false memories", and also want to examine Dr Lightfoot about the "theory of false memories".

A false memory expert, psychologist Dr Elizabeth Loftus, testified at the trial of Epstein`s former girlfriend Ghislaine Maxwell in December, before Maxwell`s conviction on sex-trafficking charges.

She said people continually reconstructed their memories rather than retrieving them as if from a recording device, and they could be subject to "post-event suggestion".

But she conceded while "peripheral memories" of traumatic events may be forgotten, core memories may get stronger.

Meanwhile, court documents show lawyers for Ms Giuffre are seeking testimony from two people in the UK.

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sat 15 Jan 17:33

Who`s talking about a campaign medal?

I`m talking about his rank of vice admiral - not an honouory title, an actual rank he `earned` - anyone trying to suggest that rank had nothing to do with the privelage and patronage we all gave him is deluding themselves
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 15 Jan 19:35

If you read what I said earlier I was quite clear about honorary titles etc.

That includes the Vice Admiral rank, which is honorary.

He did however reach substantive naval rank based on what he achieved in his 22 years service, and not because of who his mother was.

The UK military doesn’t work that way - as Prince Edward can verify.

Post Edited (Sat 15 Jan 19:36)
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Sat 15 Jan 19:38

As if he would have actually done anything to earn those titles. He would have been wrapped in cotton wool the whole time. A disappointing number of the usual suspects leaping to the defence of a alleged sex offender
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 15 Jan 20:14

I wondered how long before the alternative usual suspects would appear and try to zone in on an imagined defence of him.

This is about his right to retain the medals he earned in naval service, nothing to do with his personal life.

He was not excused any of the duties and dangerous operations that other pilots and aircrew participated in 1982.

The CO of 801 Fleet Arm, Sharkey Ward, who flew numerous combat sorties, said that he was a exceptional pilot.

Try joining the dots in a logical order.

Post Edited (Sat 15 Jan 20:16)
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sat 15 Jan 21:14

He`s retaining his rank and role of vice admiral
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 15 Jan 21:18

He should be stripped of all honorary titles and ranks.

Only retain the substantive rank he held when he retired from the service.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Sat 15 Jan 23:35

Quote:

veteraneastender, Sat 15 Jan 21:18

Only retain the substantive rank he held when he retired from the service.


Why?

Not just him, why should/does anyone? If folk you`re pally or served with want to use your former rank like as nickname then fair enough, but I don`t see why it should be any more than that.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference



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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sun 16 Jan 08:55

Think we`re all arguing about different things.

I`m highlighting that he didn`t `earn` the rank of vice admiral in the same way that you or I would have had to had we signed up.
Therefore his elevated position came about as a direct result of the privelage and patronage we all gave him.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 16 Jan 11:11

Yes, two separate discussions.

All these honorary ranks and titles are a nonsense.

Still trying to figure out how he became Colonel of RHF and RRS at the same time, since the former is now part of the latter.

Post Edited (Sun 16 Jan 11:18)
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Sun 16 Jan 12:07

If you were his officer in command and you had the choice of promoting either some dude from Dudley with three teeth and a mum who cleans hospitals, or the dude whose mum is the actual Queen (to whom you swore a personal oath) which would you likely choose, on balance, if you were a career-driven [I] royal navy officer?


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: dd23  
Date:   Sun 16 Jan 12:12

Quote:

Wotsit, Sun 16 Jan 12:07

If you were his officer in command and you had the choice of promoting either some dude from Dudley with three teeth and a mum who cleans hospitals, or the dude whose mum is the actual Queen (to whom you swore a personal oath) which would you likely choose, on balance, if you were a career-driven [I] royal navy officer?


😂😂😂😂
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 16 Jan 13:12

Might be worth checking out the promotion system in the UK military, it doesn’t operate on your imagined grace and favour basis.

For example, promotion is not in the gift of a single senior officer, regardless of the candidate.

I once met a Guards officer who came from a mining village in central Scotland, came up through the ranks. Not your typical Hooray Henry type Rupert.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Sun 16 Jan 13:35

My point is that most promotions wouldn`t have any involvement at all from the family of the prospective promotee. Do you honestly think that the palace had zero influence on his duties?

It doesn`t take a great deal of imagination to realise that Andrew`s navy career was not a typical example.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 16 Jan 14:07

There is a highly structured career path in the military.

You are either fit to be considered for promotion or not, based initially on an annual performance report from your immediate superior.

There is no evidence that he didn’t advance to his substantive rank on merit.

The only time there was “palace influence” in his career was to ensure he went on active service to war zone.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 16 Jan 14:17

So what substantive rank did he finish his career on?

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 16 Jan 14:29

Commander - equivalent to a Lieutenant Colonel in the army, Wing Commander RAF.

Not unexceptional for an officer with 22 years service.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Sun 16 Jan 14:49

The only time there was “palace influence” in his career was to ensure he went on active service to war zone.

Aye right.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 16 Jan 14:58

You’ll know.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Sun 16 Jan 16:24

Bet he went straight in as an officer
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 16 Jan 16:28

I once met a Guards officer who came from a mining village in central Scotland, came up through the ranks. Not your typical Hooray Henry type Rupert.

I wonder if that was my Brother vee ? He ended up a Major in the Scots Guards first battalion .. also My Cousin was regimental Sergeant Major same battalion and World Pace Stick Champion

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 16 Jan 16:36

Came from Fallin.

Was a recruiting officer, captain at that time.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 16 Jan 16:55

No its a different guy vee

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: MDCCCLXXXV  
Date:   Mon 17 Jan 08:55

Quote:

Wotsit, Sun 16 Jan 12:07

If you were his officer in command and you had the choice of promoting either some dude from Dudley with three teeth and a mum who cleans hospitals, or the dude whose mum is the actual Queen (to whom you swore a personal oath) which would you likely choose, on balance, if you were a career-driven [I] royal navy officer?


I`d pick the dood from Dudley, this other guy appears to be a nonce

East End Park is a symbol of all that is DAFC.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 18 Jan 15:49



Except if you come from the West Midlands perhaps ?



Post Edited (Tue 18 Jan 15:49)
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Wed 19 Jan 20:34

Did anyone else notice that interesting titbit from OMQs today?

Basically, Starmer asked a question related to Johnson`s apology to the Queen regarding the party which took place just before Philip`s funeral. However he wasn`t allowed to answer because, it turns out that

"no question can be put which brings the name of the Sovereign or the influence of the Crown directly before Parliament, or which casts reflections on the Crown or the Royal Family."

Democracy in action folks.



Post Edited (Wed 19 Jan 20:37)
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 19 Jan 20:58

Yes, and on the other hand MPs can make outrageous unsubstantiated allegations against others under Parliamentary privilege.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Tue 15 Feb 16:22

Sweep sweep.
As any lawyer would tell you though its better to look suspicious than be found guilty.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Tue 15 Feb 16:27

Why settle when you`re innocent?🤔😷😉😲


https://news.upday.com/uk/prince-andrew-and-virginia-giuffre-settle-out-of-court-over-civil-sex-assault-lawsuit/
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Tue 15 Feb 16:36

Quote:

LochgellyAlbert, Tue 15 Feb 16:27

Why settle when you`re innocent?🤔😷😉😲


https://news.upday.com/uk/prince-andrew-and-virginia-giuffre-settle-out-of-court-over-civil-sex-assault-lawsuit/


Funny how Virginia was saying a few months back it wasn`t about the money, I want my day in court. It`s all about the money.

There are clearly elements Andrew was not wanting in the public domain.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Tue 15 Feb 17:19

Definitely not about the money....
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Tue 15 Feb 17:44

Paying her off shrieks of an admission of guilt to me. I`m not sure I like the idea of the rich being able to cover their crimes by throwing their (or our) money at the victims

Post Edited (Tue 15 Feb 17:45)
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Tue 15 Feb 18:35

Surely the demands for "justice" should outweigh the need for any financial settlement?

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Tue 15 Feb 18:52

Isn`t this how such cases are normally resolved in the USA? Most commentators thought there would be a settlement although maybe not as quickly as has happened here.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Tue 15 Feb 19:24

Mmm. £10m being bandied about as payment.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 15 Feb 19:26

It is without doubt an admission of guilt .. and probably driven by the Royals themselves .. who do not want the Jubbly year compromised

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: MDCCCLXXXV  
Date:   Wed 16 Feb 08:33

Admission?.... yes

Charges will be dropped, does this mean he gets his titles back???

East End Park is a symbol of all that is DAFC.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Wed 16 Feb 09:08

I`ll take that back. It would appear that the majority of the money is likely to go towards a survivor charity. Without knowing the facts it`s best not to comment.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Wed 16 Feb 15:47

Quote:

ipswichpar, Wed 16 Feb 09:08

I`ll take that back. It would appear that the majority of the money is likely to go towards a survivor charity. Without knowing the facts it`s best not to comment.


Think it’s the opposite - reports are £2m to the survivor charity and £10m to Ms Giuffre


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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Wed 16 Feb 19:24

From Aunty :-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60407806

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Rusty Shackleford  
Date:   Wed 16 Feb 22:26

The grand old Duke of York
He had ten million quid
Gave it to someone he never met
For something he never did
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Thu 17 Feb 08:31

And when he was up it was fun
And when he was down he was glum
But when he was only half way up
He took another viagra

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Thu 17 Feb 13:00

Quote:

wee eck, Tue 15 Feb 18:52

Isn`t this how such cases are normally resolved in the USA? Most commentators thought there would be a settlement although maybe not as quickly as has happened here.


95% of this these type of case is settled out of court

Post Edited (Thu 17 Feb 13:01)
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 17 Feb 14:35

The whole thing sucks - he avoids a public court hearing, and she nets a huge nice little earner..............despite being complicit (by her own admission) in helping to procure victims for Epstein........ and no indication of the bigger compensation going to the charity named.

Presumably she adheres to the charity begins at home position ?

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Thu 17 Feb 14:51

"The whole thing sucks - he avoids a public court hearing"

doent need to be a court case, he has settled and in such admitted guilt. How many women have you paid £12million because you didnt sleep with them?

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Thu 17 Feb 16:44

Quote:

Playup_Pompey, Thu 17 Feb 14:51

"The whole thing sucks - he avoids a public court hearing"

doent need to be a court case, he has settled and in such admitted guilt. How many women have you paid £12million because you didnt sleep with them?


Don`t know, the wife has been ripping me off for years!🤔😷😲😉
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: parsmad68  
Date:   Thu 17 Feb 16:59

Quote:

LochgellyAlbert, Thu 17 Feb 16:44

Quote:

Playup_Pompey, Thu 17 Feb 14:51

"The whole thing sucks - he avoids a public court hearing"

doent need to be a court case, he has settled and in such admitted guilt. How many women have you paid £12million because you didnt sleep with them?


Don`t know, the wife has been ripping me off for years!🤔😷😲😉


You can’t say that about your missus.

I have been married for years now too and my wife certainly doesn’t suck!
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sat 19 Feb 17:17

Jings Andy and MI6 are slowly getting rid of them


French modelling agent and a former associate of the late US financier and sex offender Jeffrey Epstein has been found dead in his prison cell in Paris.

Jean-Luc Brunel was found hanged in his cell in La Santé prison on Saturday morning, French media report.

He has been in custody since being placed under formal investigation in 2020, accused of sexual harassment and the rape of minors aged between 15 and 18 in France.

Mr Brunel had denied any wrongdoing.

Police have opened an inquiry into the circumstances of his death.

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Sun 20 Feb 05:00

I feel sick at the notion that money I earned and willingly paid in tax might be being used to pay off an over privileged old man`s rape victim.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sun 20 Feb 07:23

Exactly, even if it’s not directly used, it will be indirectly
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 20 Feb 10:57

Time for the Royals to go.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sun 20 Feb 12:29

Queen down with Covid, going for the sympathy vote?
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Sun 20 Feb 18:17

Quote:

jake89, Sun 20 Feb 10:57

Time for the Royals to go.


One sure way of ridding ourselves of them is if Scotland becomes a Republic
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 20 Feb 19:45

Not quite true. Sturgeon suggested it would need some debate.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sat 2 Apr 10:39

From Aunty :-

A US judge has upheld Ghislaine Maxwell`s sex trafficking conviction, denying her bid for a new trial.

Maxwell, 60, had complained that one of the jurors falsely stated before the trial that he had never been sexually abused.

Her lawyers argued the fact the juror had been abused in the past meant he could not be impartial.

Maxwell was convicted in December last year of trafficking girls for the late American financier Jeffrey Epstein.

She faces up to 65 years in prison, but maintains her innocence. Epstein killed himself in prison in 2019 while awaiting trial on sex trafficking charges.

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 3 Jun 21:36

Didn`t make it to the Thanksgiving service in St Paul`s today as he had Covid.

Did he, aye?



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: twin par  
Date:   Sat 4 Jun 00:31

Thought that as well.How convenient. And who did he get it from,aye right !
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Sat 4 Jun 02:26

Sad that a child predator can basically get away with it. Shame we can`t guillotine the nonce
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sat 4 Jun 06:50

Quote:

jake89, Sun 20 Feb 19:45

Not quite true. Sturgeon suggested it would need some debate.


Remember, sturgeon can put forth her vision of an independent Scotland (and the snp are currently the only credible way of gaining indy)…
But once we are independent there will be elections, where each party (and hopefully not the status quo parties) will put forward their vision and proposals, and for once, we will actually get who we vote for.

So sturgeon can say that from her perspective, but if Another party wins a Scottish general election on a ticket of moving to a republic then that will happen and conversely if we don’t vote for them then we won’t

It will be strange having representation and decisions on all the key issues that actually represent the view of the people of this country!
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 4 Jun 08:04

Of course, but it`s not guaranteed Scotland would or would not keep the queen. Voting for independence relates to the political side only. Any decisions after that would be made by whoever is elected.

I`m all for independence but the SNP are absolutely hopeless IMO. They`ve destroyed Scottish education with CFE and refuse to accept they got it wrong.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Sat 4 Jun 09:45

Alex Salmond believed that the party in government had to show they could successfully govern to achieve independence.

Well the question is are the parties in power since 2014 achieving that now ?

Re the heading , Prince Andrew comes straight in at No1 in the charts ,, still think the Sex Pistols were cheated

Post Edited (Sat 04 Jun 09:45)
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sun 5 Jun 17:52

Quote:

jake89, Sat 4 Jun 08:04

Of course, but it`s not guaranteed Scotland would or would not keep the queen. Voting for independence relates to the political side only. Any decisions after that would be made by whoever is elected.

I`m all for independence but the SNP are absolutely hopeless IMO. They`ve destroyed Scottish education with CFE and refuse to accept they got it wrong.


Can you explain this to me in more detail. My kids left school many moons ago so I have no idea what the problem is.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sun 5 Jun 18:57

Well parrot, mine (x3) have all left state school, inverkeithing high, two have went on to university and now have gone in to get good jobs and my youngest is starting university after the summer

So from my own experiences with kids in high school over the last 12 years, there’s no complaints here
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 5 Jun 19:03

Without sounding cheeky - Google it. It`s been incredibly poorly implemented and thought out. With our primary school aged son he progressed far quicker when he was taught at home using the "old" method.

Standards have dropped and it`s indicated in how Scotland performs on the global stage. I may be wrong, but I believe the Scottish Government withdrew Scotland from that measure a few years back.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Sun 5 Jun 19:48

With the right parents homeschooling is significantly better from my experience from a purely educational perspective so I wouldn`t put it purely down to old methods vs new methods.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Sun 5 Jun 20:01

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jun/21/scottish-education-system-to-be-overhauled-after-damning-oecd-report

Sommerville`s involved got to be a disaster. Failed at everything she getting involved in .

Post Edited (Sun 05 Jun 20:16)
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 5 Jun 20:46

That article`s almost a year old. If anyone can understand the following paragraph could they please enlighten the rest of us? It`s not even a proper sentence!

`Beatriz Pont, from the OECD’s education directorates, said: “The system is really busy, and at risk of policy and institutional overload, and reactive and political approaches to CfE in the absence of an identified cycle of policy review.”`

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 5 Jun 21:06

Quote:

wee eck, Sun 5 Jun 20:46

That article`s almost a year old. If anyone can understand the following paragraph could they please enlighten the rest of us? It`s not even a proper sentence!

`Beatriz Pont, from the OECD’s education directorates, said: “The system is really busy, and at risk of policy and institutional overload, and reactive and political approaches to CfE in the absence of an identified cycle of policy review.”`


I could sum it up in two words - **** show. What he means is that there`s no clear approach and what is there is really messy.

Give S-AS a break, I`m sure it was Swinney who brought it in, and he`s cocked up almost everything he`s ever led on.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Sun 5 Jun 21:17

Quote:

jake89, Sun 5 Jun 21:06

Quote:

wee eck, Sun 5 Jun 20:46

That article`s almost a year old. If anyone can understand the following paragraph could they please enlighten the rest of us? It`s not even a proper sentence!

`Beatriz Pont, from the OECD’s education directorates, said: “The system is really busy, and at risk of policy and institutional overload, and reactive and political approaches to CfE in the absence of an identified cycle of policy review.”`


I could sum it up in two words - **** show. What he means is that there`s no clear approach and what is there is really messy.

Give S-AS a break, I`m sure it was Swinney who brought it in, and he`s cocked up almost everything he`s ever led on.


Give me an example of one of her successes ?

Will conceed re Swinney, the great redactor.
The main reason the nuSNP find theirselfs in coalition with the Green's.

Post Edited (Sun 05 Jun 22:11)
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 5 Jun 21:39

When someone talks gobbledegook you can interpret it any way you like I suppose. The fact the article is almost a year old means that the criticism is hardly relevant now. And why is so much criticism of the SNP on here so personalised?

Maybe the quality of debate on here is proof enough that the standard of education is falling.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 5 Jun 22:16

Quote:

Tenruh, Sun 5 Jun 21:17

Quote:

jake89, Sun 5 Jun 21:06

Quote:

wee eck, Sun 5 Jun 20:46

That article`s almost a year old. If anyone can understand the following paragraph could they please enlighten the rest of us? It`s not even a proper sentence!

`Beatriz Pont, from the OECD’s education directorates, said: “The system is really busy, and at risk of policy and institutional overload, and reactive and political approaches to CfE in the absence of an identified cycle of policy review.”`


I could sum it up in two words - **** show. What he means is that there`s no clear approach and what is there is really messy.

Give S-AS a break, I`m sure it was Swinney who brought it in, and he`s cocked up almost everything he`s ever led on.


Give me an example of one of her successes ?

Will conceed re Swindler, the great redactor.
The reason the nuSNP find theirselfs in coalition with the Green`s.


I can`t say I`ve noticed anything relating to S-AS tbh but my point was that it wasn`t her who brought in CFE despite significant pushback from teaching professionals.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 5 Jun 22:20

Quote:

wee eck, Sun 5 Jun 21:39

When someone talks gobbledegook you can interpret it any way you like I suppose. The fact the article is almost a year old means that the criticism is hardly relevant now. And why is so much criticism of the SNP on here so personalised?

Maybe the quality of debate on here is proof enough that the standard of education is falling.


The OECD person won`t win a plain English award but it does seem clear in the article that there`s been a lack of any strategy. It`s good to see the recommendations have been approved by S-AS. Not sure what difference getting rid of the SQA will make though.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Sun 5 Jun 22:25

Quote:

wee eck, Sun 5 Jun 21:39

When someone talks gobbledegook you can interpret it any way you like I suppose. The fact the article is almost a year old means that the criticism is hardly relevant now. And why is so much criticism of the SNP on here so personalised?

Maybe the quality of debate on here is proof enough that the standard of education is falling.


https://reformscotland.com/2022/04/urgent-need-for-action-in-scottish-schools-carole-ford/[\url]

Just 2 months ago so hardly relevant now ?
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Sun 5 Jun 23:43

Quote:

Tenruh, Sun 5 Jun 22:25

Quote:

wee eck, Sun 5 Jun 21:39

When someone talks gobbledegook you can interpret it any way you like I suppose. The fact the article is almost a year old means that the criticism is hardly relevant now. And why is so much criticism of the SNP on here so personalised?

Maybe the quality of debate on here is proof enough that the standard of education is falling.


https://reformscotland.com/2022/04/urgent-need-for-action-in-scottish-schools-carole-ford/

Just 2 months ago so hardly relevant now ?


Reform Scotland is a Tory run think tank. Hardly a good source for independent analysis.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 5 Jun 23:50

Nice one, sif! One criticism I have of the media is their tendency to quote think-tanks without revealing their underlying philosophy or how they are funded.

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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Mon 6 Jun 01:44

Quote:

wee eck, Sun 5 Jun 23:50

Nice one, sif! One criticism I have of the media is their tendency to quote think-tanks without revealing their underlying philosophy or how they are funded.


https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2022/01/10/examining-education-and-exams-in-pandemic/[\url]

Here`s one funded by the independence movement, just wrote 6 months ago so might not be relevant now.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Mon 6 Jun 01:57

https://www.tes.com/magazine/analysis/general/muir-report-scotland-schools-could-break-mould-scottish-education

Another link critical of the Scottish Education System written by a ex teacher just over 3 months ago, might not be relevant now. Beware it may have been produced by a right wing nutter so there might be plenty of inaccuracies.

Anyway can anyone find an article praising the standard of our current education system.

Post Edited (Mon 06 Jun 02:11)
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Mon 6 Jun 16:18

Quote:

Tenruh, Mon 6 Jun 01:57

https://www.tes.com/magazine/analysis/general/muir-report-scotland-schools-could-break-mould-scottish-education

Another link critical of the Scottish Education System written by a ex teacher just over 3 months ago, might not be relevant now. Beware it may have been produced by a right wing nutter so there might be plenty of inaccuracies.

Anyway can anyone find an article praising the standard of our current education system.


I haven`t looked. However, my 15 year old daughter is currently getting a fabulous education at her school. And she enjoys it most days.
Not from an academic of course but in my opinion more important. And possibly from a future academic by the way she is progressing.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Mon 6 Jun 16:24

My schoolteacher daughter says the behaviour is atrocious up at Queen Anne!
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 6 Jun 17:08

I can`t believe QAHS is allowing hoodies. They tried this back in the early noughties and quickly switched back.

I`ve heard kids take calls from their parents during class. Why are parents even calling them?!

I`m not sure that lack of discipline relates to education policy though. More likely down to kids having 2 years of unusual education.

Education begins at home and it feels like a lot of parents forget that. The curriculum is woeful and that`s why that support is more valuable than ever.
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Mon 6 Jun 17:28

Seems you are all experiencing problems with schools. As I said my daughter is getting a very good education in her school in Aberdeen.

There are disruptive children, some of whom are in her class. However, the head teacher has a handle on it and it doesn`t impact on the good kids as the disruptive kids are dealt with.

I would say that she is about 1 year ahead of where I was at her age when I was at school in Dunfermline in the 70`s.

No complaints from me or her mother thus far.

Oh and the school uniform is polo shirts and jumpers.

Post Edited (Mon 06 Jun 17:29)
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Mon 6 Jun 17:30

3 adults appeared recently to beat up a guidance teacher, one was the mother of the pupil!
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 Re: Prince Andrew
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Mon 6 Jun 23:33

Quote:

LochgellyAlbert, Mon 6 Jun 17:30

3 adults appeared recently to beat up a guidance teacher, one was the mother of the pupil!


I remember at Woodmill in the early 90s, the rumour was that a couple of hard nuts came down to the school to batter a teacher and Larry Hutchinson and Gallagher, the English teachers, leathered them
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