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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Tue 14 Dec 08:34
Did I miss the bit when he explained the increases of deaths in 2020 and 2021 vs 2019?
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Tue 14 Dec 09:34
I didn`t have him down as a conspiracy theorist but I enjoyed him giving the Tories a good kicking. 🙂
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Tue 14 Dec 09:38
His own arguments seem a little inconsistent....perhaps these people rocking up in London have already had it and some immunity.
Don`t get me wrong....they have managed this completely inappropriately and many of them, including Johnson should get punted.
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Tue 14 Dec 09:40
Rasta has been telling us this for over a year
Oh aye and watch out for the new Human Rights bill
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Tue 14 Dec 09:56
He seems to be equating the relatively small minority of people who were partying with the whole of the government. I also don`t accept that people will instinctively do what they consider necessary to protect themselves and their families like wear face coverings, wash their hands, socially distance, etc. Some people have to be encouraged and we all need to know what specific measures are likely to be effective.
He also doesn`t answer the overriding question - why do they want to control us? Is it just for the kick of it? All the evidence suggests Boris Johnson would rather let things rip.
Post Edited (Tue 14 Dec 10:10)
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Tue 14 Dec 10:06
Oliver is an idiot. Only a few months ago he came out with the ridiculous statement;
"If my freedom means you might catch Covid from me, then so be it. That`s honestly how I see it.
For the sake of freedom, yours and mine together, I will cheerfully risk catching Covid. That is a chance one among many that I am prepared to take and happily. Life is not safe. Freedom is not safe. For the sake of freedom, yours and mine together all freedoms being of equal value, I will cheerfully risk much else besides."
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Tue 14 Dec 10:17
I was pretty sure this clip would arouse a fair bit of controversy, which is always good for stimulating debate. He does make some valid points about the way the pandemic has been handled (mishandled?) and the relaxed, contradictory attitudes of some of the PM`s close collaborators, but undoes that with some outlandish claims.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Tue 14 Dec 11:34
If I was against receiving the vaccine and/or restrictions, I wouldn`t want Neil Oliver fighting my corner. Anyone who went to GBNews is a joke.
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Tue 14 Dec 11:56
I don`t give a toss about Neil Oliver, don`t listen, never will.
I will however watch us get stripped of rights and sold into medical penury, keep up with the passport or else.
To this day still, unvaccinated friends, I know one that`s caught it, vaccinated, not performing so well.
And this week marks the third person I know who had their good boy/girl stickers on for getting their jabs being admitted to hospital with heart problems (admittedly I know a lot of people...but that works both ways).
You guys keep up hoovering the panic from our ever so honest politicians, I`m getting on with life, I`ll leave you to it.
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Tue 14 Dec 11:58
Quote:
jake89, Tue 14 Dec 11:34
If I was against receiving the vaccine and/or restrictions, I wouldn`t want Neil Oliver fighting my corner. Anyone who went to GBNews is a joke.
The clip was sent to me by a no Vax relative. I`d never heard of GBN until now.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Tue 14 Dec 12:08
Nigel Farage has a show on that channel GG and many of its presenters share the Farage world view. They do have some presenters and reporters who are more respected and considered though. Can`t say I have ever watched it though so I can`t say with any honesty the tone of the station.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Tue 14 Dec 13:57
Nigel Farage, Neil Oliver, that NZ guy who writes for the Daily Mail, Andrew Neil (think he`s now quit)...what a line-up!
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Tue 14 Dec 16:01
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Tue 14 Dec 12:08
Nigel Farage has a show on that channel GG and many of its presenters share the Farage world view. They do have some presenters and reporters who are more respected and considered though. Can`t say I have ever watched it though so I can`t say with any honesty the tone of the station.
Farage - that`s all the information I need to steer well clear of that channel, TOWK. A more odious, unscrupulous and immoral individual living individual I cannot think of. I`d rather cut off my leg without anaesthetic than listen to him.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Tue 14 Dec 16:26
From my point of view Neil Oliver does not keep very good company. He has been on platforms with the likes of Farage and here he is now sitting in a GB News studio. His naivety is what has struck me in the past: he often describes himself as an apolitical man of common sense who is only saying what everyone really thinks, but every right wing bigot in my lifetime has claimed the very same. He gets het up about ‘culture wars’ and indoctrination in schools, forgetting that when he was a pupil at Dumfries Academy that indoctrination took a different form as it did in all Scottish schools. Maybe he just preferred the old religion of Queen, Church and Capitalism over the modern form of Ecology and Diversity.
However, I ‘m afraid to say I agreed with most of what he said in this piece to camera, even if it has been promoted by business interests concerned at their lack of revenue. There has been no left wing case made against the emergency rule by governments across Europe which is why opponents are reduced to scuffling with police spraying water cannons. The Left mostly collapsed in 1914 when it tucked in behind Nationalism instead of holding to its anti-war position. I hope we’re not seeing a similar disaster unfold now.
sammer
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Tue 14 Dec 17:20
Protecting vulnerable people`s wellbeing over protecting economic interests has no left wing case, huh?
Also didn`t the left do rather well in 1917, just three years after it apparently disappeared? Granted, that victory quickly descended into fascist hellscape when the Bolsheviks decided that slaughtering their allies would be expedient to their aims.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Tue 14 Dec 18:09
He`s an idiot.
The rules were put in place to protect the NHS and also the most vulnerable. Just because those making the rules (allegedly) broke then does not mean those rules should be binned. What it means is those alleged rule breakers should be punished.
So, yes, be angry, but don`t decide you suddenly don`t need to follow the rules.
As I said on the other thread, this isn`t about posh people breaking the rules whilst us "plebs" follow them. There are plenty of "plebs" who broke the rules too - the difference is they didn`t write the bloody rules! That is what we should be angry about. The people we elect to guide us are hopeless. My anger is that I didn`t elect them, they have almost no representation in the country I live in, yet I know that they`ll get elected again at the next election.
It`s easy to point and say "stupid English people" but they have no strong alternative now. Labour are still lost at sea, the Lib Dems are unelectable and the Green Party is tiny in England. They have no SNP option.
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Tue 14 Dec 21:15
Protecting against Covid and protecting the well being of the population might overlap but they are not the same thing. There is a trade-off between protection and freedom, especially when laws are being passed on the hoof, and these laws will long outlast any need for protection. We’ll find out what the wellbeing of the population is then.
As Orwell’s character says in 1984: ‘The point of power is power.’ An ambitious politician like Starmer, who although leader of the opposition baled out the government this evening, will hold to that creed. He spent part of his earlier life locking people up and is rather proud of the fact.
A note for Wotsit. Fascism is funded by corporate money in an attempt to save Capitalism. Bolshevism is driven by worker power in an attempt to overthrow Capitalism. 8 out of every 10 Nazi soldiers were killed by the Red Army. Not much in common there, so the terms are not interchangeable.
His last point might be significant. When Ramsay MacDonald and Lenin opposed WW1 they were denounced as traitors for not joining in the hysteria and were considered finished in politics. By 1924 they were running two of the most powerful countries in the world.
sammer
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Tue 14 Dec 22:24
On and on it will go turning people against each other....
The same crooks making the same money with the same tried and trusted techniques.
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Tue 14 Dec 22:40
At the risk of dragging this off topic, the Bolsheviks were funded by the Imperial German Government in a successful attempt to take Russia out of World War I.
The Bolsheviks then slaughtered the real grassroots revolutionaries because they were in favour of stuff like workers` syndicates free of central control. Ideas such as those threaten the power of fascist dictatorships so they had to go.
Like Lenin, Ramsay McDonald was also a traitor to his professed cause when power turned his head. So I suppose you may be correct Sammer, the left did die somewhere around 1914, but only because Lenin psychotically massacred it.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: Berry
Date: Tue 14 Dec 22:57
Never really listened to any of Neil Olivers stuff but hard to disagree with the majority of what he said on this clip.
I don’t think not abiding by the rules because the government didn’t is the right way to go but his point about how government acted were pretty on point and how they are playing on the fear factor.
Omicron from yesterday I believe, only one death in the UK so far and it’s not been confirmed whether that was due to the virus or any other event, could well have been the virus, could equally have been a car accident for all we know at the moment.
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Wed 15 Dec 18:24
Dr Hilary Jones claiming on TV that 90% if new hospitalisation are unvaxxed...3000 complaints to Ofcom later the number is allegedly 30 to 36%.
Unsurprising given his paymasters.
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Wed 15 Dec 18:24
Quote:
Berry, Tue 14 Dec 22:57
Never really listened to any of Neil Olivers stuff but hard to disagree with the majority of what he said on this clip.
I don’t think not abiding by the rules because the government didn’t is the right way to go but his point about how government acted were pretty on point and how they are playing on the fear factor.
Omicron from yesterday I believe, only one death in the UK so far and it’s not been confirmed whether that was due to the virus or any other event, could well have been the virus, could equally have been a car accident for all we know at the moment.
Was the unfortunate chap not in his 90`s?
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Wed 15 Dec 18:32
30 odd percent of hospitalisations are coming from the 10 percent that are unvaccinated! Wow and double wow when you consider that group will include many who aren`t considered to be vulnerable. Sobering.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: P
Date: Wed 15 Dec 18:38
Times reporting Scotland the most vaccinated in the UK with just 8.8% eligible that have not had a single dose. 32% London unvaccinated.
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Wed 15 Dec 18:40
Yes, 36 per cent.
It would be interesting to see how this varies by age. If the elderly are more likely to get their jabs then, by my reckoning, this the difference even more stark.
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Topic Originator: Berry
Date: Wed 15 Dec 19:08
Jethro has passed away after contracting the virus, was double vaccinated and had the booster.
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Wed 15 Dec 19:53
Topic Originator: Berry like
Date: Wed 15 Dec 19:08
Jethro has passed away after contracting the virus, was double vaccinated and had the booster.
He was also battling with Hodgkin Lymphoma Berry and was in remission but maybe the treatment lowered his ability to ward off Covid .. Time will tell
RIP Jethro
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: Jeffery
Date: Wed 15 Dec 20:37
Quote:
Buspasspar, Wed 15 Dec 19:53
Topic Originator: Berry like
Date: Wed 15 Dec 19:08
Jethro has passed away after contracting the virus, was double vaccinated and had the booster.
He was also battling with Hodgkin Lymphoma Berry and was in remission but maybe the treatment lowered his ability to ward off Covid .. Time will tell
RIP Jethro
Exactly why the immunosuppressed were offered a `3rd dose` a few months ago and will receive their boosters soon. It`s an extra dose as their bodies struggle to produce the antibodies to fight it off on their own.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 15 Dec 21:46
Quote:
Jeffery, Wed 15 Dec 20:37
Quote:
Buspasspar, Wed 15 Dec 19:53
Topic Originator: Berry like
Date: Wed 15 Dec 19:08
Jethro has passed away after contracting the virus, was double vaccinated and had the booster.
He was also battling with Hodgkin Lymphoma Berry and was in remission but maybe the treatment lowered his ability to ward off Covid .. Time will tell
RIP Jethro
Exactly why the immunosuppressed were offered a `3rd dose` a few months ago and will receive their boosters soon. It`s an extra dose as their bodies struggle to produce the antibodies to fight it off on their own.
He likely "only" had the three doses. As you suggest, the booster is separate. Unfortunately, we have an idiot leading the nation who doesn`t appear to acknowledge that the booster isn`t the same as a third dose. That third dose is only available to those most at risk. Adults who are most at risk get a booster on top of that third dose too.
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Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par
Date: Thu 16 Dec 10:54
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Wed 15 Dec 18:32
30 odd percent of hospitalisations are coming from the 10 percent that are unvaccinated! Wow and double wow when you consider that group will include many who aren`t considered to be vulnerable. Sobering.
Ouch
Quick look at the maths on this one…
30% of hospitalisations from 10% of population
Let’s call population ‘x’ and hospitalisations ‘y’
30% of y / 10% of x = chance of hospitalisation unvaxxed
70% of y / 90% of x = chance of hospitalisation vaxxed
Unvaxxed / vaxxed = multiple of likelyhood
(30%y / 10%x) / (70%y / 90%x) = rate
=> (30%y / 10%x) * (90%x / 70%y)
the x & y cancel out
Rate = (30%/10%)*(90%/70%)
=> non vaxxed are 3.85 times as likely to be hospitalised…
WITHOUT factoring in that the majority of unvaxxed are younger and non-vulnerable and the majority of older and/or vulnerable people ARE vaxxed.
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Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par
Date: Thu 16 Dec 16:23
Scary - in Lux news today
“ In the week starting 6 December, 16 out of 23 patients in intensive care were unvaccinated, the government said on Wednesday.”
70% of intensive care people are unvaxxed!
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Topic Originator: Berry
Date: Thu 16 Dec 16:56
What about other weeks Lux?
Were all 23 in hospital admitted because of the virus or for another reason. How old were the patients? Is there a breakdown at all?
Not doubting the unvaccinated are a higher risk of getting ill, have always known that and accepted that when I made my decision. 70% is a scary number but that is on a small sample over only a week. If it’s the same percentage over a longer term then yes staggering.
Also what’s the population of Lux these days?
My next door neighbour has just had the booster and she’s very ill at the moment, I have her daughter in my house right now looking after her.
Pretty $h1t time to be living in at the moment.
Post Edited (Thu 16 Dec 17:07)
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Topic Originator: P
Date: Thu 16 Dec 18:46
"Pretty $h1t time to be living in at the moment"
Better than the alternative, besides that probably every single decade prior to the 60`s would have been a significantly worse time to be living than now.
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Topic Originator: Berry
Date: Thu 16 Dec 19:02
I wasn’t drawing comparison in previous years and decades P but take your point.
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Topic Originator: P
Date: Thu 16 Dec 21:17
Quote:
Berry, Thu 16 Dec 19:02
I wasn’t drawing comparison in previous years and decades P but take your point.
Don’t get me wrong, things still suck just now 😀
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Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par
Date: Thu 16 Dec 21:54
Berry
Other weeks? I mentioned what I read today.
Why would any other period detract from a Government statement about the situation now?
It was a Covid-19 pandemic report - sod all about people in hospital for other reasons.
Population of Lux - 630k or thereabouts
No data on the age of hospitalisations, but i read that 11 people died last week with an average age of 84.
People diagnosed with covid-19 during this week have an average age of 33.2
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 16 Dec 22:15
Neil Oliver`s probably got more `views` on here than he gets on GB News.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Fri 17 Dec 07:42
Quote:
wee eck, Thu 16 Dec 22:15
Neil Oliver`s probably got more `views` on here than he gets on GB News.
Mea culpa, mea culpa..... 🙁
I`ve always enjoyed Oliver`s "history" programmes on the BBC and thought he made some good points on the clip, but he undermined his argument somewhat by suggesting it all pointed to a world wide plot.
Not surprisingly, the clip was forwarded to me by a no Vax relative.....
Eta, We've no way of knowing, with any certainty, how many viewers regularly watch GBN. Remember the bookies were offering 8/1 a Brexit victory, the day before the 2016 Referendum took place.
The two are not unconnected.
Not your average Sunday League player.
Post Edited (Fri 17 Dec 07:46)
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 17 Dec 11:36
When it first launched GB News viewing figures were so low they hardly registered on the normal audience measurement monitors. Apparently they got a boost when Nigel Farage joined and seem to hover between 100k and 200k now.
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Sun 19 Dec 21:26
Neil Oliver? I was watching him on TV recently. Someone asked him a question. I put the telly on mute so as to give my wife my best N.O. impersonation :
"Hold on a minute, I`ll just start walking away from you, I like talking to folk over my shoulder."
He`s lookin` a bit rough these days. As a historian and TV presenter he`s not too bad - a bit straight-laced and serious, but I`ve thought for a while he`s getting nuttier. Now, as I`m almost certain to meet him 🙂 - I`ve got my response ready for when he tries to blind me with his oratory - "Awa` an` bile yer heid." 🤓
Post Edited (Sun 19 Dec 21:30)
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Mon 20 Dec 00:51
Ref: The One Who Knocks
Tue 14 Dec 10:06
>>>Only a few months ago he came out with the ridiculous statement;
"If my freedom means you might catch Covid from me, then so be it...
For the sake of freedom, yours and mine..., I will cheerfully risk catching Covid. That is a chance... I am prepared to take and happily. Life is not safe. Freedom is not safe. For the sake of freedom, yours and mine together all freedoms being of equal value, I will cheerfully risk much else besides."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ivor Nellie:
"For the sake of freedom - at least the kind I have in mind for you - I will gladly risk catching Covid and give it to you freely. As we all know, restrictions are not about doing things to reduce infections, hospitalisations and NHS waiting lists, or... well anyway - they are a personal attack on me and my freedom to impose my ideas of freedom on you. I didn`t come up the River Ayr on a banana skin you know."
Post Edited (Mon 20 Dec 01:05)
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Mon 20 Dec 13:30
Quote:
onandupthepars, Mon 20 Dec 00:51
Ref: The One Who Knocks
Tue 14 Dec 10:06
>>>Only a few months ago he came out with the ridiculous statement;
"If my freedom means you might catch Covid from me, then so be it...
For the sake of freedom, yours and mine..., I will cheerfully risk catching Covid. That is a chance... I am prepared to take and happily. Life is not safe. Freedom is not safe. For the sake of freedom, yours and mine together all freedoms being of equal value, I will cheerfully risk much else besides."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ivor Nellie:
"For the sake of freedom - at least the kind I have in mind for you - I will gladly risk catching Covid and give it to you freely. As we all know, restrictions are not about doing things to reduce infections, hospitalisations and NHS waiting lists, or... well anyway - they are a personal attack on me and my freedom to impose my ideas of freedom on you. I didn`t come up the River Ayr on a banana skin you know."
I totally get his argument. There will be plenty of vulnerable people, especially those in the older groups thinking the young and healthy should just go out and get on with it.
However, the issue now isn`t so much protecting people from COVID, it`s protecting people in general. Think about the impact if the bin men all get it, or the medical staff or train/bus drivers etc. Chaos. I don`t know what the answer is, but we need to reach a point where COVID is an accepted risk and people are sensible enough to take precautions where appropriate. We all know that person who used to come into the office despite being ill and would sniff and cough all day long spreading their cold to everyone.
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Mon 20 Dec 20:52
Ref: jake89
Mon 20 Dec 13:30
>>We all know that person who used to come into the office despite being ill and would sniff and cough all day long spreading their cold to everyone.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know him - Neil... Neil somebody, it`ll come to me.
I`ve long thought that folk with colds and flu should be given time off work on full pay (by govt). I wonder if it`d be good for productivity overall. Imagine a world in which that happens - you could go to work feeling that somebody is taking care of your health and well-being and the workplace is not a virus-infested pit where some folk take a delight in making others ill.
Post Edited (Mon 20 Dec 20:54)
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