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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Tue 21 Feb 11:55
George Galloway gave an absolutely stupendous anti-war speech at the Oxford Union this week. You don`t often hear oration of this quality. His lines about Tommy Atkins are simply unforgettable... moved me to tears.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYRy33Yxq3M
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Tue 21 Feb 14:47
When gets it right he`s quite exceptional and when you disagree with him he`s spectacularly wrong but I think a lot of that comes from the powerful language he uses. There`s often very little room for middle ground with him IMO.
If you can be bothered with this he school`s almost all of the Senate team questioning with the arguable exception of one of the more wily elder statesmen.
https://youtu.be/j5u1skEoqLs
It`s 45 minutes but he creams them for most of it.
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Tue 21 Feb 19:00
Yes, I 100% agree with you, Londonparsfan. He is a polarising figure. But his Senate performance a few years ago was impeccable, a joy to behold.
Love him or loathe him, he has been a consistent voice on a range of topics, from Tories and New Labour, Israel, Palestine and the Arab world, through to America, Russia and China.
His podcast, Mother of all Talkshows, offers a counter to the general mainstream view, and while he sometimes makes me grind my teeth, he certainly doesn`t mince words and tells it how he sees it.
Another podcast that has become essential listening for me in the past year or two has been `The Rest is Politics` from Alistair Campbell and Rory Stewart. Less strident than Galloway, it always offers a fair balance of opinion and again, is a good counter to the plodding party lines that are being offered on the mainstream.
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Tue 21 Feb 19:00
He`s a Showman for sure .. But I quite like him
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh
Date: Tue 21 Feb 19:07
Did he also give an anti-war speech or just the one in the link?
The one in the link is against some wars but in favour of the second world war, Spanish civil war, and the Falklands war. It`s almost as though war is OK as long as he gets to decide which ones.
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Topic Originator: pars4life1
Date: Tue 21 Feb 21:41
Galloway is a snake. His came through rightly standing against Iraq but he’s spent the rest of his political career happy to sell himself to whoever, wouldn’t believe he does anything without some sort of private agenda.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Wed 22 Feb 11:10
Did he make that speech without any visual prompts? If so, that was impressive, regardless of what you think of the guy or his views.
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Wed 22 Feb 13:25
The debate was framed around the question of fighting for King and Country. Galloway dismissed the King part in a few sentences, then explained that he would be happy to fight for the people of his country if it were threatened. He made it clear that he was no pacifist but would fight in what he considered a `just` war. This has long been his position on conflict.
Ben Wallace had been expected to attend the debate but was presumably advised it was better he give it a miss given his limited rhetorical skills.
Galloway`s MOATS is on every Wednesday and Sunday evening and required viewing for anyone with an active interest in the present political scene.
sammer
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Wed 22 Feb 14:04
Quote:
OzPar, Tue 21 Feb 11:55
George Galloway gave an absolutely stupendous anti-war speech at the Oxford Union this week. You don`t often hear oration of this quality. His lines about Tommy Atkins are simply unforgettable... moved me to tears.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYRy33Yxq3M
He`s not anti war. He fully supports the ongoing genocide of Ukrainians by Russians at the dequest of fascist Putin.
So his claim he would be happy to go fight fasism is bs as he openly supports genocide being carried out now by fascists.
He has also recently backed the "re-eduction camps" in China for the Uyghars denying there was a genocide happening there.
Galloway is a paid contributor for both Russian and Chinese state media. He is part of their propaganda machines.
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Wed 22 Feb 15:24
Galloway is no friend of the yankee dollar which funds his critics.
A couple of tips on vocabulary.
Genocide is the extermination of a people on account of their race. This is not present Russian policy otherwise every Ukrainian on Russian soil would be liable to execution. However it was a policy conducted by the Azov battalion in areas of Eastern Ukraine, particularly Mariupol. Zelensky recently boasted of his intention to clear the Russians out of Crimea, an area that is 90% Russian. He didn’t explain how this was to be done but it sounded like lebensraum.
Fascism is a form of state power that espouses ultra nationalism and oppresses leftish opposition forces such as Communists, Socialists and Trade Unionists. The Communist Party is the main opposition party in the Russian Federation although it has been banned (along with just about every other opposition party) inside Zelensky’s Ukraine.
sammer
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Wed 22 Feb 15:57
Quote:
sammer, Wed 22 Feb 15:24
Galloway is no friend of the yankee dollar which funds his critics.
A couple of tips on vocabulary.
Genocide is the extermination of a people on account of their race. This is not present Russian policy otherwise every Ukrainian on Russian soil would be liable to execution. However it was a policy conducted by the Azov battalion in areas of Eastern Ukraine, particularly Mariupol. Zelensky recently boasted of his intention to clear the Russians out of Crimea, an area that is 90% Russian. He didn’t explain how this was to be done but it sounded like lebensraum.
Fascism is a form of state power that espouses ultra nationalism and oppresses leftish opposition forces such as Communists, Socialists and Trade Unionists. The Communist Party is the main opposition party in the Russian Federation although it has been banned (along with just about every other opposition party) inside Zelensky’s Ukraine.
Article 2(e) of the Genocide Convention 1948 declares that forcible child transfer committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group as such, amounts to genocide.
Add to that the numerous mass graves found in areas retaken from Russian fascists, where civilians with bound hands have been murdered.
In the Donbass there was no genocide committed by Azov battalion. What had been happen there since 2014 was anyone supporting Ukraine was murdered. Women were raped, a friend of my ex wife`s from Luhansk was raped 6 times by fascist Russians until she eventually fled to Poltava.
I would like to see evidence of Zelenskyy saying he would clear Russians out of Crimea. I`ve only seen him say Ukraine would kick Russia out.
You actually think there is an opposition in Russia, anyone who comes close to gaining any support finds themselves in prison, poisoned or murdered.
The Communist Party and fascist Party of Regions worked hand in hand to undermine Ukraine and were the main sources of corruption in Ukraine. As far as I am aware they were banned for working with the invaders and nothing else.
Multiple times I have asked you to explain Putins close relationship with Alexander Dugin and Alexander Prokhanov. Both untra nationalist neo Nazis. Putin is following Dugins philosophy on geopolitics. Don`t give me a huge spiel packed with lies about my other points. Just answer about Dugin and Prokanhov and how you can claim Putin is not a fascist when he absolutely is.
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Wed 22 Feb 16:33
I agree that I misspoke when in the OP I described it as an anti-war speech; Galloway espouses the "just war" argument, which is a very different proposition to pacifism.
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Wed 22 Feb 17:07
So all of the 14,000 people killed in eastern Ukraine since 2014 were murdered by Russian `fascists?` And the Azov battalion (not heard much about them lately but they are now reformed characters it is claimed) killed no one? They were just keeping order and directing traffic presumably.
Almost 1 million Russian people left the area and sought refuge in Russia after 2014 to escape the tender mercies of the Azov battalion and other ultra nationalist forces. They can match your accounts of rape as an act of war.
The main sources of corruption within Ukraine have been the oligarchs propped up by the USA since the legitimate government was overthrown. Check Zelensky`s bank account and explain where all that loot came from.
I`ve heard of Dugin whose daughter was blown up by a Ukrainian car bomb. Prohkanov I`ll need to check but I doubt he is a politician. Lots of people claim a close relationship with Putin.
As for opposition, try it in Scotland and see how different it ends up. Willie McCrae, Tommy Sheridan, Alex Salmond and even poor Craig Murray have all been disposed of in various ways. It`s the same everywhere, even in Ukraine where a number of mysterious deaths and helicopter crashes have taken place recently. The jails there are full of Zelensky`s opponents.
sammer
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Wed 22 Feb 18:04
Quote:
sammer, Wed 22 Feb 17:07
I`ve heard of Dugin whose daughter was blown up by a Ukrainian car bomb. Prohkanov I`ll need to check but I doubt he is a politician. Lots of people claim a close relationship with Putin.
I said I didn`t want a spiel full of lies but that`s what I got.
There is absolutely no way you live in Russia and don`t know who Prohkanov is and are also not aware of both Nazis personal relationships with Putin.
Dugina was indeed killed in a car bomb, there is no evidence that it was Ukraine responsible though but I hope it was them as she herself was a fascist propagandist for Putler.
We all know that the FSB were caught red handed planting bombs in Russian apartment blocks and blaming Chechens to justify their attacked on Chechnya. So as much chance it was FSB who killed Dugina to boost support for the "special military operation"
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Wed 22 Feb 18:55
Always admired Galloway and his ability to speak truth to power. Who can forget when he stood in the Presidential Palace in Baghdad and fearlessly told Saddam Hussein that "Sir, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability"
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Wed 22 Feb 19:06
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Wed 22 Feb 18:55
Always admired Galloway and his ability to speak truth to power. Who can forget when he stood in the Presidential Palace in Baghdad and fearlessly told Saddam Hussein that "Sir, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability"
He`s always been a fan of murderous dictators.
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Wed 22 Feb 21:26
What comes across from SIF is how he squeals like a stuck pig when someone is killed whom he supports. But when someone he dislikes is murdered then he is exalts in their death. That does not sound a good way to end a conflict. Tribalism never ended a conflict. Schandenfreude is the nadir of human emotion.
SIF wants the war in Ukraine to continue since that might make Ukraine`s position better. I want it to stop right now because the only way it will end, militarily, is in the destruction of Ukraine as an entity. If he loves Ukraine as much as he claims to, then to salvage what remains is all that is all that is left after Zelensky hops off to Miami.
The rest will be silence.
sammer
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Wed 22 Feb 22:02
Quote:
sammer, Wed 22 Feb 21:26
What comes across from SIF is how he squeals like a stuck pig when someone is killed whom he supports. But when someone he dislikes is murdered then he is exalts in their death. That does not sound a good way to end a conflict. Tribalism never ended a conflict. Schandenfreude is the nadir of human emotion.
SIF wants the war in Ukraine to continue since that might make Ukraine`s position better. I want it to stop right now because the only way it will end, militarily, is in the destruction of Ukraine as an entity. If he loves Ukraine as much as he claims to, then to salvage what remains is all that is all that is left after Zelensky hops off to Miami.
The rest will be silence.
My family and friends in Ukraine are from an occupied area.
They don`t know a single person from their town who wants to be part of Russia.
They have described multiple war crimes being committed by Russian and the disappearance of anyone who is even suspected of standing against them.
Why should they lose there homes to fascism?
Of course you are a Putin apologist so want to end the war and steal this territory because you know Russia will be defeated.
Sorry if me being angry at my wife`s friend being raped multiple times and celebrating to death of someone complicit in the genocide of Ukrainians upsets your little Nazi supporting feelings.
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Wed 22 Feb 22:20
Prohkanov is 84 years old. Not quite in his prime. Has he ever met Putin? I doubt it. He is a very well read man and an original thinker, much like Hugh McDiarmid was in Scotland. McDiarmid was kicked out of the SNP for being a communist, and later kicked out of the CP for being a nationalist.
That might sound pathetic, but McDiarmid was an earnest man trying to trying to find a way forward for the country into which he had been born. Anyone who has been a Scot and not considered either nationalism or communism, or even christianity, is probably a failed entity. To be a consumer is mere surrender. I think Prohkanov is of the same calibre.
sammer
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Wed 22 Feb 23:16
Quote:
sammer, Wed 22 Feb 22:20
Prohkanov is 84 years old. Not quite in his prime. Has he ever met Putin? I doubt it. He is a very well read man and an original thinker, much like Hugh McDiarmid was in Scotland. McDiarmid was kicked out of the SNP for being a communist, and later kicked out of the CP for being a nationalist.
That might sound pathetic, but McDiarmid was an earnest man trying to trying to find a way forward for the country into which he had been born. Anyone who has been a Scot and not considered either nationalism or communism, or even christianity, is probably a failed entity. To be a consumer is mere surrender. I think Prohkanov is of the same calibre.
A few hour ago you claimed not to know Prokhanov but now state you doubt he has met Putler.
They are close friends exchanging Christmas and Birthday cards. And Putler publicly praised him on his 80th birthday.
He is a known antisemite blaming Jews for "introducing the ideas that destroyed Russia"
You gladly pronounce a known Nazi as a great thinker.
You are nothing more than a Nazi sympathiser.
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Wed 22 Feb 23:49
Thanks for your warped definition of fascism which would do a teenager proud. According to you the Communists and the Fascists are combing to undermine Ukraine, an unholy alliance rarely seen in politics as we understand it.
I think Hugh McDiarmid remains the best comparison regarding Prohkanov. I couldn`t give a toss if he receives a birthday card or not from Putin. What does that prove? The Jews were some of the greatest thinkers behind the Bolshevik revolution, the greatest in revolution modern history. Their loss to Europe after the Nazi genocide has enfeebled our political thinking. If Lenin hadn`t given eastern Ukraine its autonomy we wouldn`t be able to have this argument.
Your support of Ukrainian nationalism is limited these days, since 10 million Ukrainians have left the country rather than support the Zelensky regime. He was voted in on a 72% majority to fight corruption (don`t laugh) and establish peace with Russia concerning the Donbas. He was a wolf in sheep`s clothing, seen as such by Putin, and by the many Ukrainians who have left. He has danced to the NATO tune, been bolstered by his fascist elements, and will sacrifice even more Ukrainian citizens before he finds refuge in Miami or Israel.
NATO Bombs for peace? Best of luck with that one. But I know you don`t want peace.
sammer
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Topic Originator: Aylesbury_Par
Date: Fri 24 Feb 18:40
Quote:
sammer, Wed 22 Feb 23:49
Your support of Ukrainian nationalism is limited these days, since 10 million Ukrainians have left the country rather than support the Zelensky regime.
Are you seriously claiming that women and children fleeing a country which is being indiscriminately bombed is due to political beliefs?
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Fri 24 Feb 22:29
Are you seriously claiming that many didn’t? And it wasn’t just just women and children who left Ukraine. A quarter of the population has abandoned the country whatever their reasons.
Put yourself in the position of an imaginary Ukraine citizen, perhaps one who voted for Zelensky despite his unsavoury allegiances with ultra-nationalists. You voted for him since he seemed a nice guy, a TV comedian and not part of the political establishment. He’d promised to clamp down on corruption (notorious within Ukraine for many years) and establish peace in the Donbas region. Then he played fast and loose with the Minsk accords that were supposed to hold some balance of forces in the Donbas and far from bringing peace actually brought about war. You could now look forward to military conscription to support a regime which has failed you and also other restrictions such as the banning of all political parties. It’s not very attractive, whether the bombing is indiscriminate, as you claim, or aimed at the military and energy grids within Ukraine. Death becomes an obvious possibility.
I am not aware of any country in history which haemorrhaged 25% of its citizens at the beginning of a conflict and survived.
sammer
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Topic Originator: Milos Drizzle
Date: Sat 25 Feb 00:06
According to the link below, the reduction of the population since gaining independence in 1991 has reduced by 20% (not 25%). About a third of that has been due to immediate impact of the war, a further chunk due to the annex of the Crimea, and the rest due to natural population change through a birth rate less than the death rate. So a somewhat different narrative to that provided by Sammer.
https://www.rsgs.org/blog/the-war-and-the-future-of-ukraines-population
This is my signature
Post Edited (Sat 25 Feb 00:06)
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