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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Sun 2 Jul 19:31
England captain Ben Stokes says he would not want to win with such a contentious dismissal as Jonny Bairstow`s in the second Ashes Test.
The controversial stumping threatened to overshadow Australia`s 43-run win against the hosts at Lord`s.
Believing the ball to be dead, Bairstow wandered out of his ground as wicketkeeper Alex Carey threw down the stumps and was given out.
Stokes said he would have withdrawn the appeal in that situation.
"Jonny was in his crease, then out of his crease to come down and have the chat," Stokes, who hit an incredible 155 as England threatened an unlikely victory, told Test Match Special.
"I am not disputing the fact it is out because it is out.
"Would I want to win a game in that manner? The answer for me is no."
The answer for me is YES he would .. rules are rules laws are laws .. play to the whistle .. its quick thinking from the Aussies who understood the rules and the Pommie`s did not ..
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: Tad Allagash
Date: Sun 2 Jul 20:25
Bit of an odd one - that dismissal.
It looked to me like Bairstow was in his crease when Carey threw it but went for a wander whilst the ball was in flight and was out his crease by the time it hit the stumps. So I’m not sure if it was quick thinking or a fluke. Or did Carey notice Bairstow doing this at the end of each over?
Great comment on the BBC feed:
“There are members in the Long Room so enraged that they`ve reverted from a Windsor knot into a much more aggressive half Windsor.”
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sun 2 Jul 20:34
Cummins said Bairstow had been doing the same thing to them but presumably he didn`t appeal as no Aussies were dismissed in that fashion?
I must say I went off the Aussies after all that ball-tampering stuff. It`s one thing playing to win but they take it too far.
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Topic Originator: parathletic
Date: Sun 2 Jul 20:48
Quote:
Tad Allagash, Sun 2 Jul 20:25
Bit of an odd one - that dismissal.
It looked to me like Bairstow was in his crease when Carey threw it but went for a wander whilst the ball was in flight and was out his crease by the time it hit the stumps. So I’m not sure if it was quick thinking or a fluke. Or did Carey notice Bairstow doing this at the end of each over?
Great comment on the BBC feed:
“There are members in the Long Room so enraged that they`ve reverted from a Windsor knot into a much more aggressive half Windsor.”
He actually walked out of his crease several times in that over but the keeper offloaded the ball to another fielder on the previous occasions.
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Sun 2 Jul 20:59
What’s the expression, “it’s just not cricket”
Post Edited (Sun 02 Jul 21:30)
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Topic Originator: Socks
Date: Sun 2 Jul 22:13
I like cricket but I`m not immersed in it the way I am with football. It was a really enjoyable test match to follow (just with online updates and the hour highlights each night) and the reaction this one got just seems a bit weird. I see it more from a football perspective, and in football that would have been seen as a great piece of opportunism. If you`re repeatedly out of your ground and eventually the other team pick up on it, why is that so immoral? Maybe you just see it differently if you have a stronger feel for the game.
The very concept of having to appeal for a wicket also seems weird to me and it reminds me of a situation many years ago when Dominic Cork should have been out hit wicket in a test match, no fielder noticed so he just calmly picked up the bails and put them back on. It`s part of the game, but it does seem weird to me when you have officials there to make a decsion.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sun 2 Jul 22:23
What advantage did Bairstow gain by moving away from the crease? It`s not as if he was trying to steal a few yards before setting off for a run.
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Topic Originator: Socks
Date: Sun 2 Jul 22:42
Being out, stumped, rarely comes about because you`re trying to steal a few yards before setting off for a run so I`m not sure that`s a relevant point. There are various ways of getting out without trying to gain any advantage - presumably nobody would have any problem with an appeal if you were to accidentally put your foot on the bottom of your stumps, and you`d be out hit wicket. You try not to do this because you`ll be out despite gaining no advantage. So why does teh same not apply here? Why not try to make sure you`re still in your ground until you know the ball is dead?
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sun 2 Jul 22:58
Players who are out stumped are usually trying to hit the ball! Similarly if they`re out `hit wicket` they`re usually trying to avoid being out. Bairstow was going off to talk to Stokes before the next over.
There`s no doubt he was out under the laws of the game but it was sneaky by the Aussies in my opinion.
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Topic Originator: Socks
Date: Sun 2 Jul 23:25
Yes, but your last point was that there was no attempt to gain an advantage. My point in response was that there are other circumstances in which you can be out without attempting to gain an advantage, and therefore that argument alone does not explain why this was so appallingly wrong and immoral.
Sneaky? Perhaps, but does that make it wrong? At Montrose last season, Rory McAllister hid behind Mehmet in the goal while Mehmet was thinking about clearing it. He came close to getting to the ball when Mehmet put it on the ground, having not noticed he was there. That was sneaky and could have resulted in a goal, yet it was legitimate and in accordance with the laws of the game and had he scored or won a penalty, I doubt anyone would have criticised him for it. I ceertainly wouldn`t. Opportunistic - yes, appallingly immoral - no.
Why would those two incidents be viewed so differently? Yes, different sports, obviously, but why is opportunism accepted in one incident but not the other? Had we lost a goal from that incident, Mehmet would have been criticised and quite justifiably. So why, in today`s indicent, is the player taking advantage being criticsed rather the player who could have avoided it all by simply making sure he was in his ground until the ball was dead? It just doesn`t make sense to me.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Mon 3 Jul 00:53
I think you`re getting this out of all proportion. Where did anyone say it was `immoral` or `appallingly wrong`? The worst I heard was `not in the spirit of the game`. The Mehmet/McAllister incident didn`t actually result in a goal so we`ll never know what the reaction to it would have been.
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Topic Originator: Bandy
Date: Mon 3 Jul 10:58
Stuart Broad said it was `the worst thing he`d seen in cricket`. In a week where cricket has been shown to have structural discrimation throughout the game that`s a weird thing to say.
England`s argument that it`s against the `spirit of the game` doesn`t really hold water given Bairstow tried to stump Labuschagne in exactly the same fashion on the first day of the test. McCullum has plenty of previous in `against the spirit of the game` run outs too (check out what his did to Muralitharan).
The UK media are desperate to paint this as `cheating Aussies not playing fair`. The rest of the world sees it as doziness from bairstow and a fine piece of opportunism and execution from Carey.
The rest of the world are correct - there`s no debate here.
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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Mon 3 Jul 11:25
Rest of the world?
What’s the NY Times take on this I wonder, they think Brit diet is porridge and boiled mutton, Lord knows what they think Aussies munch on. Anything beginning with a K?
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Topic Originator: Tad Allagash
Date: Mon 3 Jul 11:39
No. The Aussie cricket team have a well-deserved reputation as cheats in the rest of the world too. Smith and Warner hatched a plan to cheat the South Africans.
As for the Bairstow stumping, clearly there is a debate - that’s what we’re doing.
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Topic Originator: Bandy
Date: Mon 3 Jul 11:42
My point is there shouldn`t be a debate - it`s doziness from Bairstow, capitalised on by Carey. That`s it.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Mon 3 Jul 11:53
There shouldn`t be a debate? Let`s close down the forum then. Presumably we`ve all got to agree with whatever your opinion is.
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Topic Originator: Bandy
Date: Mon 3 Jul 12:06
That`s quite the leap wee_eck!
Plenty of things are debatable and worthy of nuanced discussion. I just don`t think Carey stumping Bairstow is one of those things!
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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Mon 3 Jul 12:21
What do you expect from the descendants of deported robbers, rioters, and rascals various, noted for fiddling with their balls and whose most subtle chat up line is “ Hey Sheila, fancy a shag?”
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Topic Originator: Bandy
Date: Mon 3 Jul 13:09
Gotta love the casual stereotyping...You realise that not all the Australian team fit into that category right?
Khawaja`s an immigrant, so`s Labuschagne, Boland is aboriginal...
Yup - they`ve been done for ball tampering. It was a disgraceful episode and the perpetrators received lengthy punishments. Cricket Australia handled the situation pretty well I think....
Meanwhile the English game has been found to the institutionally discriminatory..
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Mon 3 Jul 14:08
Struth! It sounds like Parboiled is as mad as a cut snake... crikey!
We love the whinging poms over here...
:)
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Topic Originator: parathletic
Date: Mon 3 Jul 14:21
I`ve never been to the cricket but heading down to Old Trafford for a day at the 4th test.Could be all over by then though.
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Topic Originator: Socks
Date: Mon 3 Jul 15:28
It`s certainly true that there`s a casual stereotyping at play with some of this, though I`d say `casual racism` is a better description.
Must say I find amusing the comment that I`m getting it out of proportion! I`m trying to understand why people were absolutely raging about it, I`m not one of the people who are angry. Don`t really see much different between `against the spirit of the game` and `immoral`, in the sense of it being immoral in terms of the code of the game being played. I saw it described as `egregious` somewhere, which I found amusing.
I know exactly what my reaction would have been had McAllister scored against Mehmet from that incident, and I know exactly what my reaction would be if a Pars player scored from a situation like that. I`d say it was opportunistic, a legitimate goal and that there was no problem with it, other than the keeper being a bit of a fanny for not checking. Maybe that`s a benefit that comes from trying to be consistent in one`s views, rather than applying double standards depending on whether something goes for or against your team.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Mon 3 Jul 16:45
What a pity we can`t all be the paragons of fairness you obviously consider yourself to be!
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Topic Originator: alwaysaPar
Date: Mon 3 Jul 17:31
Quote:
wee eck, Mon 3 Jul 16:45
What a pity we can`t all be the paragons of fairness you obviously consider yourself to be!
Absolutely no need to be condescending when Socks is trying to explain his different opinions .........
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Topic Originator: twofourfour
Date: Mon 3 Jul 18:34
I think the difference between the Bairstow incident and the Mehmet incident is that Mehmet always knew the ball was in play. Bairstow (wrongly) thought that the ball was no longer in play.
To me it`s similar to the Aston Villa v Leeds incident a few years back when all the Villa players stopped as they thought Leeds were going to put the ball for an injury.
You could argue that the villa players should have played to the whistle, but most people at the time thought Leeds were unsporting. So much so that Bielsa told his players to allow Villa to go up the other end and score
F O U R
F O U R
..T. .O..
....W....
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Mon 3 Jul 18:45
Well there ye go .. Its official .. the back stabbing spineless weasel has spoken
Rishi Sunak has accused Australia of breaking the spirit of cricket over the controversial dismissal of England`s Jonny Bairstow on Sunday.
Batsman Bairstow was stumped in the second Ashes Test after walking away from his position in the apparent belief the over had ended.
The contentious wicket has overshadowed Australia`s 43-run win against the hosts at Lord`s.
Australia captain Pat Cummins said it was a fair dismissal within the rules.
But his England counterpart Ben Stokes said although he agreed Bairstow was out, he wouldn`t have wanted to win a game "in that manner".
The incident led to the Marylebone Cricket Club (MCC), which owns Lord`s, suspending three members over confrontations with Australia players.
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Mon 3 Jul 21:05
I don`t think I`m the one who was being condescending...but that`s just my opinion.
Post Edited (Mon 03 Jul 21:06)
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Tue 4 Jul 02:18
The goings-on in the Long Room seem worse than originally reported and put any complaint England fans may have about matters on the field into sharp perspective.
A fresh video circulating in the Australian media has highlighted the extent to which Usman Khawaja was repeatedly singled out for abuse by some MCC members at Lord`s.
To Khawaja`s credit, he immediately pointed out the troublemakers to stewards.
A colourful striped tie and a well-tailored jacket won`t prevent some people from being utter pricks...
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Topic Originator: Bandy
Date: Tue 4 Jul 10:24
I did wonder why Khawaja was singled out for abuse - he had nothing at all to do with the incident in question.
Sunak`s comments can be safely ignored. He`s the definition of someone who blows with the wind. Interesting that he wouldn`t want to win a cricket match through opportunism, but is more than happy to become PM through opportunism, and without a personal mandate.
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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Tue 4 Jul 11:40
You would expect the media in a country whose cricketers sandpaper their balls to produce a fake video…
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Tue 4 Jul 11:48
Yep. It`s official... Parboiled is a TROLL.
:)
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Tue 4 Jul 12:26
Bartholomew Frinton-Smyth
Humphrey Wigbert-Porter
Quinten Breckenridge
Really???
Yes, really...
:)
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Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh
Date: Tue 4 Jul 12:43
No. Not really.
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Topic Originator: Bouncer
Date: Tue 4 Jul 19:41
Heading down to Leeds this week for a couple of days at the next test.
Another wee tick off my sporting bucket list.
Though I am a wee bit more excited about the tour of the West Indies I have booked for December taking in Antigua, Barbados and Grenada.
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Sun 23 Jul 23:49
Australia wins the Ashes again. God bless the English rain...
:)
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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Mon 24 Jul 09:25
Don’t blow your didgeridoo yet cobber, still one to go. Retain does not mean win y’know…
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Topic Originator: parathletic
Date: Mon 24 Jul 10:25
I was down there on Friday.Fortunately, we got almost a full day`s play. It was a good day out with good banter between the fans. Pity the weather spoiled the next 2 days.
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