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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Thu 22 May 11:02
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cql22xwg62vo
If someone could post a working link I`d be obliged.
Anyways, so a review down south has recommended that criminals be released after serving a third of their sentence. Not just burglars and organised shoplifters and fraudsters and other such lovable rogues but violent offenders, including domestic abusers and those who have committed sexual crimes.
The article states that despite the prison population doubling (in England Wales) since the 1990s reoffending rates remain high. The article also states that overall crimes rates have fallen since the 1990s but doesn`t seem to link those two trends.
To me rehabilitation is only part of the reason for getting jail time. A bigger part for me is punishment. If you batter some poor sod for no good reason to within an inch of his life , get sent away for five years, I don`t think you should be getting out after thirty months nevermind twenty. If reoffending rates are too high I don`t see how letting these violent thugs out early is going to help? You just know that there will be a whole slue of cases where one of these people gets out early and murders some innocent bystander, some domestic abuser will go out and murder their ex spouse and some sexual predator will return to molest/assault again. Whatsmore I guarantee the scatter flats and halfway homes these people get housed in won`t be in the leafy upper middle class suburbs of the people that penned this report live.
Edit to add: Thanks BP for doing the link.
Post Edited (Thu 22 May 12:00)
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Thu 22 May 17:08
Would you be so keen on state sanctioned vengeance TOWK if the science suggested that a focus on rehabilitation had better outcomes for both the individual prisoner and, as a result, society as a whole?
`The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.`
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: P
Date: Thu 22 May 18:11
Quote:
Wotsit, Thu 22 May 17:08
Would you be so keen on state sanctioned vengeance TOWK if the science suggested that a focus on rehabilitation had better outcomes for both the individual prisoner and, as a result, society as a whole?
`The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.`
You seem to have omitted the victim from your science? Odd as they should be priority #1 in the list
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Thu 22 May 18:59
I`m a great believer in allowing science to play one of the leading roles when determining public policy, i.e with covid pandemic or the climate action. Science though for me needs to be verifiable and repeatable. Not sure such science can be applied to matters of the human mind and behaviour. You call it state sponsored vengeance but it it isn`t vengeance at all. If anything the state is, quite rightly, telling you to forgo vengeance and allow the courts to deliver justice and a part of justice is a degree of punishment. When that punishment is then diluted after the fact,away from the court, that can`t be of benefit to a good society. Yes I believe in rehabilitation. Yes I believe in prisoners being given the chance for redemption and atonement. I can`t though get behind violent offenders being released after only a third of their sentence, especially when I suspect the driving force behind such releases, is science but it is the science of economics.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par
Date: Thu 22 May 19:31
Got to move out these ex-violent offenders.
Need space to imprison those deadly and dangerous bad-word tweeters.
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Thu 22 May 21:41
You seem to have omitted the victim from your science? Odd as they should be priority #1 in the list
I`m prioritising making fewer future victims.
I agree TOWk that releasing people early is completely different to rehabilitating people, and that the proposal you have linked is wrong-headed for that reason: it is the worst of both worlds in the sense that we are failing to rehabilitate people and are sending them out into society earlier to inflict more harm.
I don`t agree however that there is no way to provide scientific data on the rehabilitation vs punishment since each country has a different approach and each country has a different rate of recidivism so psychologists can, and have, done studies which show convincingly that prison systems that are focused on rehabilitation have much lower rates of reoffending than those whose systems are focused on punishment. If you give people the tools and the confidence to reintegrate into society after prison then they are more likely to do so.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Thu 22 May 22:23
I can`t understand how folk talk like sentencing guidelines are very well thought through but then we now appear to be happy to let them out early. If the guidelines are correct we need an end to end process that works.
It`s not often the case but the Tories make some sense here. I get that it sends a sign to make foreigners serve a sentence then deport them. But I think telling a foreigner to GTF and never darken our door again is preferable to having a UK prisoner released early.
Either way we`re going to have a victim who feels like the state has failed them but that`ll only change when we have enough prisons to store the amount of prisoners we have.
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Topic Originator: Alter Ego
Date: Sat 24 May 22:09
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 25 May 08:13
Quote:
Alter Ego, Sat 24 May 22:09
All sex offenders, rape offenders and child molesters should be sent to their own jail and killed one by one…or put them all in a cell and gas them!
I was discussing this last week. While I would happily see all of the above tortured like thirty victims before death, you would have to be 100% sure. You could imagine the threats of "I`ll tell them you touched me." and the potential convictions of innocent people.
Maybe start with castration of anyone found to be sharing kiddy porn where the victim is obviously a child?
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 6 Jun 12:32
Couple of teens who kicked a 80 year old man to death while he was walking his dog were sentenced through the week there. 3 year rehab order for the 13 year old girl and seven years in custody for the 15 year old boy. While the man was being battered he was also being racially abused. Don`t know the ethnicity of the teens but I`m going to assume they were white so you have got to salute the restraint of the community that this poor man belonged to. Had he been an 80 year old white man who had been battered to death by a couple of teens of Asian decent there would have been riots and people asking for hotel to be burnt down.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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