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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Mon 7 Jul 10:23
David Hamilton, the Scottish Information Commissioner,was critical of the handling of his request to NHS Fife for details of costs of the suspended nurse Peggie tribunal.
His complaint to NHS management went roond the hooses and various officials were most displeased with his stance and duly recorded their displeasure.
This was duly sent to the mother of patient who had requested details of her son’s medical records..
Meanwhile the Nurse Peggie suspension tribunal resumes next week. Why? She’s already been vindicated by the Supreme Court gender ruling surely?
A mass cull of these NHS eejits is called for?
Post Edited (Mon 07 Jul 10:24)
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Topic Originator: PARrot
Date: Tue 8 Jul 03:47
Quote:
Parboiled, Mon 7 Jul 10:23
David Hamilton, the Scottish Information Commissioner,was critical of the handling of his request to NHS Fife for details of costs of the suspended nurse Peggie tribunal.
His complaint to NHS management went roond the hooses and various officials were most displeased with his stance and duly recorded their displeasure.
This was duly sent to the mother of patient who had requested details of her son’s medical records..
Meanwhile the Nurse Peggie suspension tribunal resumes next week. Why? She’s already been vindicated by the Supreme Court gender ruling surely?
A mass cull of these NHS eejits is called for?
Pfftttt! You`re making that up.
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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Thu 10 Jul 12:13
NHS Fife spent £220,500 according to The Herald. Unless they made it up…
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Topic Originator: Tenruh
Date: Fri 11 Jul 09:19
Quote:
Parboiled, Thu 10 Jul 12:13
NHS Fife spent £220,500 according to The Herald. Unless they made it up…
The bill is in excess of £220K but NHS FIFE are only paying £25K of it.
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Fri 11 Jul 13:43
Quote:
Tenruh, Fri 11 Jul 09:19
Quote:
Parboiled, Thu 10 Jul 12:13
NHS Fife spent £220,500 according to The Herald. Unless they made it up…
The bill is in excess of £220K but NHS FIFE are only paying £25K of it.
Seems a bit excessive, the cost and rigmarole for something that should have really been sorted out in a conversation between the two of them.
"I`m not happy to be changing in front of you/ for you to be changing in front of me"
"Okay, I respect your wishes, I`ll go and find somewhere else to change"
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Topic Originator: Andrew283
Date: Fri 11 Jul 14:24
It`s almost like cubicles would have solved this whole issue...
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 11 Jul 15:15
Quote:
Andrew283, Fri 11 Jul 14:24
It`s almost like cubicles would have solved this whole issue...
I think they might have both cubicles and an open area, which is what caused the problem. Given the Vic is a relatively new building it seems bizarre they didn`t just have it all as cubicles like they have at the Carnegie or Cowdenbeath leisure centre.
Both people in this case have made it very tit for tat. This is literally a case of being offended at being offended.
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Thu 17 Jul 23:30
Quote:
jake89, Fri 11 Jul 15:15
Quote:
Andrew283, Fri 11 Jul 14:24
It`s almost like cubicles would have solved this whole issue...
I think they might have both cubicles and an open area, which is what caused the problem. Given the Vic is a relatively new building it seems bizarre they didn`t just have it all as cubicles like they have at the Carnegie or Cowdenbeath leisure centre.
Both people in this case have made it very tit for tat. This is literally a case of being offended at being offended.
No sure about that. If my wife or any woman in my family had felt uncomfortable about having a male in a female only space, I’d wholly expect their employer to make the specific arrangements. I feel sorry for trans folk but you just can’t get away from the fact that you are born male or female.
COYP
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Fri 18 Jul 06:27
Quote:
NMCmassive, Thu 17 Jul 23:30
Quote:
jake89, Fri 11 Jul 15:15
Quote:
Andrew283, Fri 11 Jul 14:24
It`s almost like cubicles would have solved this whole issue...
I think they might have both cubicles and an open area, which is what caused the problem. Given the Vic is a relatively new building it seems bizarre they didn`t just have it all as cubicles like they have at the Carnegie or Cowdenbeath leisure centre.
Both people in this case have made it very tit for tat. This is literally a case of being offended at being offended.
No sure about that. If my wife or any woman in my family had felt uncomfortable about having a male in a female only space, I’d wholly expect their employer to make the specific arrangements. I feel sorry for trans folk but you just can’t get away from the fact that you are born male or female.
Intersex people exist, the lowest estimates are 1 in 5500 the highest being about 1 in 59.
“Intersex” is an umbrella term used to describe people born with sex traits that do not fit binary medical definitions of male or female sexual or reproductive anatomy. Intersex populations are born with these differences in sex traits or may develop them during childhood. Human sex development is naturally diverse, with many variations possible in genitalia, hormones, internal anatomy, and/or chromosomes. It is estimated that up to 1.7 percent of the population has an intersex trait and that approximately 0.5 percent of people have clinically identifiable sexual or reproductive variations.
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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Fri 18 Jul 07:18
Isla Bumba the NHS diversity and equality lead tells the Peggie tribunal she doesn’t know her own sex but “would hazard a guess” she was female, but would need tested to confirm that as “nobody knows their chromosomes or hormonal composition without medical testing”
How did all us oldies manage to survive decades of employment without this new army of waste of spacers?
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Topic Originator: Dandy Warhol
Date: Fri 18 Jul 07:24
I have had two trans friends for over 25 years, they are appalled at the current fad and the evident attention seeking.
I don`t wanna go down like disco.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 18 Jul 09:40
Quote:
Dandy Warhol, Fri 18 Jul 07:24
I have had two trans friends for over 25 years, they are appalled at the current fad and the evident attention seeking.
But this is the issue. There are two claims here:
A nurse being offended by having a trans woman in the changing room.
A doctor being offended by a nurse being offended by a trans woman in the changing room.
This could have been resolved quickly but we have this ridiculous issue of being scared to offend someone. We`re too scared to raise something with a member of the LGBTQ community or with an ethnic minority in case they get offended so instead pussyfoot around them even though 99.99% of them wouldn`t give a toss!
When I worked in the NHS I had two main dealings with HR. The first related a staff member who had been promoted just before I started and clearly couldn`t cope with the job. It massively affected their mental health and they were regularly absent. HR suggested they had been promoted above their skill level. I asked if I could discuss this with them so we could look at how to support and develop them. HR lost it and said I`d be hauled up if I did such a thing. So I did my best and the person ended up quitting with a massive black mark against their name due to how they quit. The second related to an actual trans issue where a trans person had complained that someone had said they didn`t agree with the term "CIS woman". This issue STILL hasn`t resolved itself long after I`ve left. Again, a case of the NHS refusing to acknowledge that holding different views can and will happen and just because someone is offended by a view doesn`t mean it`s wrong.
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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Fri 18 Jul 10:34
The female nurse didn’t want a biological male see her changing in a female dressing room. This particular male then made allegations regarding her which could have resulted in her losing her job.
Those losing their jobs should be the ones who who dragged her through all this, including the male invader of female space.
Post Edited (Fri 18 Jul 10:37)
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 18 Jul 11:28
Not been keeping up with all the ins and outs of this but Jake you said.
"A doctor being offended by a nurse being offended by a trans woman in the changing room"
Wasn`t the doctor the trans woman?
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 18 Jul 18:39
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Fri 18 Jul 11:28
Not been keeping up with all the ins and outs of this but Jake you said.
"A doctor being offended by a nurse being offended by a trans woman in the changing room"
Wasn`t the doctor the trans woman?
Yes. So the doctor was offended that the nurse was offended by their presence in the women`s changing room. The nurse chose to change elsewhere when they came in and this upset them. The nurse then appears to have said words to the effect of "you make me uncomfortable".
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sat 19 Jul 15:14
She`s now attempting to sue the RCN for lack of support. Have to admit my sympathy reduced somewhat when I read she`s a Trump supporting Rangers fan who is reported to have also complained about the smell of Indian food. Now appears to be going down the classic "where there`s blame, there`s a claim" route.
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Sat 19 Jul 15:57
Quote:
jake89, Sat 19 Jul 15:14
She`s now attempting to sue the RCN for lack of support. Have to admit my sympathy reduced somewhat when I read she`s a Trump supporting Rangers fan who is reported to have also complained about the smell of Indian food. Now appears to be going down the classic "where there`s blame, there`s a claim" route.
The nurse that was suspended or the Trans doctor?
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sat 19 Jul 17:58
The nurse.
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Topic Originator: charlie1
Date: Sat 19 Jul 20:10
Quote:
jake89, Sat 19 Jul 15:14
She`s now attempting to sue the RCN for lack of support. Have to admit my sympathy reduced somewhat when I read she`s a Trump supporting Rangers fan who is reported to have also complained about the smell of Indian food. Now appears to be going down the classic "where there`s blame, there`s a claim" route.
You cannot be more wrong! I know Sandie & she is not like that at all!
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 20 Jul 08:44
Quote:
charlie1, Sat 19 Jul 20:10
Quote:
jake89, Sat 19 Jul 15:14
She`s now attempting to sue the RCN for lack of support. Have to admit my sympathy reduced somewhat when I read she`s a Trump supporting Rangers fan who is reported to have also complained about the smell of Indian food. Now appears to be going down the classic "where there`s blame, there`s a claim" route.
You cannot be more wrong! I know Sandie & she is not like that at all!
"I admire Donald Trump" is a direct quote from court!
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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Sun 20 Jul 12:05
So what?
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 20 Jul 12:38
Quote:
Parboiled, Sun 20 Jul 12:05
So what?
Irrelevant to the case, but she loses some sympathy from me by supporting someone like Trump, particularly as he`s irrelevant to a nurse in Kirkcaldy! However, that`s a whole different topic and it was, in my opinion, the right court outcome and should hopefully result in an investigation into how poor NHS Fife HR is.
Post Edited (Sun 20 Jul 12:39)
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Sun 20 Jul 12:44
Perhaps she has a holiday planned to the US and she wants to keep the border officials sweet?
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Topic Originator: Dandy Warhol
Date: Sun 20 Jul 21:12
Quote:
jake89, Sun 20 Jul 12:38
Quote:
Parboiled, Sun 20 Jul 12:05
So what?
Irrelevant to the case, but she loses some sympathy from me by supporting someone like Trump, particularly as he`s irrelevant to a nurse in Kirkcaldy! However, that`s a whole different topic and it was, in my opinion, the right court outcome and should hopefully result in an investigation into how poor NHS Fife HR is.
She`ll be gutted.
I don`t wanna go down like disco.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Mon 21 Jul 12:01
Quote:
Dandy Warhol, Sun 20 Jul 21:12
Quote:
jake89, Sun 20 Jul 12:38
Quote:
Parboiled, Sun 20 Jul 12:05
So what?
Irrelevant to the case, but she loses some sympathy from me by supporting someone like Trump, particularly as he`s irrelevant to a nurse in Kirkcaldy! However, that`s a whole different topic and it was, in my opinion, the right court outcome and should hopefully result in an investigation into how poor NHS Fife HR is.
She`ll be gutted.
Oh well...
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Wed 23 Jul 19:35
Quote:
sadindiefreak, Fri 18 Jul 06:27
Quote:
NMCmassive, Thu 17 Jul 23:30
Quote:
jake89, Fri 11 Jul 15:15
Quote:
Andrew283, Fri 11 Jul 14:24
It`s almost like cubicles would have solved this whole issue...
I think they might have both cubicles and an open area, which is what caused the problem. Given the Vic is a relatively new building it seems bizarre they didn`t just have it all as cubicles like they have at the Carnegie or Cowdenbeath leisure centre.
Both people in this case have made it very tit for tat. This is literally a case of being offended at being offended.
No sure about that. If my wife or any woman in my family had felt uncomfortable about having a male in a female only space, I’d wholly expect their employer to make the specific arrangements. I feel sorry for trans folk but you just can’t get away from the fact that you are born male or female.
Intersex people exist, the lowest estimates are 1 in 5500 the highest being about 1 in 59.
“Intersex” is an umbrella term used to describe people born with sex traits that do not fit binary medical definitions of male or female sexual or reproductive anatomy. Intersex populations are born with these differences in sex traits or may develop them during childhood. Human sex development is naturally diverse, with many variations possible in genitalia, hormones, internal anatomy, and/or chromosomes. It is estimated that up to 1.7 percent of the population has an intersex trait and that approximately 0.5 percent of people have clinically identifiable sexual or reproductive variations.
Yeah great, you’ve had to jump to the extremes of human mis development to justify why a woman felt uncomfortable trying to deal with an extremely heavy period while a man who self identifies as female was wrong to do so, or any other reason why women might feel uncomfortable and request to have female only spaces.
Here’s a great stat for you… 62% of transgender women jailed in England and Wales were convicted of sexual offences.
2024 Ministry of Justice report
COYP
Post Edited (Wed 23 Jul 19:36)
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Wed 23 Jul 21:23
152 of the 245 trans women in England’s prisons were convicted of sexual offences whilst recognising themselves as men at the time of the offence. So they were imprisoned and convicted as male sex offenders before transitioning.
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Wed 23 Jul 22:11
Quote:
buffy, Wed 23 Jul 21:23
152 of the 245 trans women in England’s prisons were convicted of sexual offences whilst recognising themselves as men at the time of the offence. So they were imprisoned and convicted as male sex offenders before transitioning.
To be honest, if they are convicted as male sexual abusers, then let them transition. Just not in a female prison. Let them live as women in a male prison, give them a taste of their own medicine
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Wed 23 Jul 22:19
They’re not in female prisons.
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Wed 23 Jul 23:45
Where have I tried to justify anything.
All I did was highlight the fact the there are instances where someone can be born something other than male or female.
Intersex people exist.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 24 Jul 07:44
Quote:
buffy, Wed 23 Jul 22:19
They’re not in female prisons.
B-b-but Isla Burton! 🤦♂️
There`s a convicted sex offender in Dundee who was recently released. The crime was raping a wee boy. They now identify as a woman and are out on the streets having served their time. Does them now having long hair make them any less of a threat to local children?
In the case of Peggie her concern, although a bit daft in many people`s eyes, was disregarded and she was suspended. That should never have happened regardless of suspicion she was bullying. All of this should have been handled by the well paid managers and HR professionals. NHS Fife instead did their classic move of pretend it didn`t happen and try to transfer the problem to another department.
I know of a manager in NHS Fife who has caused at least half a dozen people to quit. Rather than take complaints about this person seriously they moved this person into a new role where they wouldn`t have any direct reports. So they got PROMOTED for being an evil ****. I observed them first hand berate someone when they were signed off for mental health reasons. This was reported to NHS Fife HR who suggested moving the complainer to another job (sound familiar?).
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Thu 24 Jul 12:50
Quote:
buffy, Wed 23 Jul 22:19
They’re not in female prisons.
Doesn’t matter though does it? It’s not in female prisons they’ll commit the sexual offence. It’s in the community. Those kinds of cases are already insanely difficult to prosecute as it’s usually her word against his. Now we’re opening up a female only space - what should be a safe space for women, to male sex offenders dressed as women.
COYP
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Thu 24 Jul 13:32
Quote:
NMCmassive, Thu 24 Jul 12:50
Quote:
buffy, Wed 23 Jul 22:19
They’re not in female prisons.
Doesn’t matter though does it? It’s not in female prisons they’ll commit the sexual offence. It’s in the community. Those kinds of cases are already insanely difficult to prosecute as it’s usually her word against his. Now we’re opening up a female only space - what should be a safe space for women, to male sex offenders dressed as women.
Do you only have a problem with trans women committing sexual offences? No outbursts or threads about men doing the same, who by the way, are also in the community and don’t need to be “dressed as women” to carry out these types of crimes.
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 24 Jul 14:06
I don`t mean this to sound disrespectful, but a man doesn`t need to put a dress on to be a sex offender. He also surely makes it EASIER to identify himself if he`s presenting as a woman.
Years ago I worked with a guy who did all the Disclosure checks. What stayed with me was him saying "This just means someone hasn`t been caught, not that they are innocent."
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Thu 24 Jul 14:08
Quote:
buffy, Thu 24 Jul 13:32
Quote:
NMCmassive, Thu 24 Jul 12:50
Quote:
buffy, Wed 23 Jul 22:19
They’re not in female prisons.
Doesn’t matter though does it? It’s not in female prisons they’ll commit the sexual offence. It’s in the community. Those kinds of cases are already insanely difficult to prosecute as it’s usually her word against his. Now we’re opening up a female only space - what should be a safe space for women, to male sex offenders dressed as women.
Do you only have a problem with trans women committing sexual offences? No outbursts or threads about men doing the same, who by the way, are also in the community and don’t need to be “dressed as women” to carry out these types of crimes.
I don’t get your thinking here. I’m too old to be worried about a school level argument of “well you must be X if you think Y”.
The reason for me pointing out the problem with a loose definition of trans and not allowing women to have a defined area for themselves is we will start to see a disproportionate number of trans sexual offenders. Which we’re starting to see…
But, it doesn’t also negate everything else we’re seeing. That nurse had every right to say I don’t feel comfortable with them in here. Same as if you didn’t feel comfortable with an individual in your space who wasn’t born with the innate right to be there, you should have the ability to speak freely.
I’m not anti trans, but I’m also not anti women.
COYP
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Thu 24 Jul 14:19
Quote:
jake89, Thu 24 Jul 14:06
I don`t mean this to sound disrespectful, but a man doesn`t need to put a dress on to be a sex offender. He also surely makes it EASIER to identify himself if he`s presenting as a woman.
Years ago I worked with a guy who did all the Disclosure checks. What stayed with me was him saying "This just means someone hasn`t been caught, not that they are innocent."
☝🏻
He wasn’t wrong.
I worked with a guy who got caught grooming a 14yr old. He certainly wasn’t the “type” you’d have thought, had all his disclosures done, married, kids all grown up and all that. The guy had been through the military.
I was quite shocked when I heard about it years later. Apparently got caught within 6 months of me moving on. He didn’t do a runner (he went through the police/court process etc) but had to kinda mid-night flit his house and all that. Leave his wife to deal with it. Just horrendous for her.
Thing is, he’ll probably say that was the first time… in his 50’s 🤔
COYP
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Topic Originator: Back_oh_the_net
Date: Mon 28 Jul 20:48
So it turns out it’s no just trans people she has issues with at Muslims catholics immigrants and homosexuals to the list if the latest report in the courier is anything think to go by
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Mon 28 Jul 22:37
If the above is true, surely THIS is what she should have been suspended for rather than because she didn`t like changing in front of someone who was born as a male?
All NHS Scotland contracts include a requirement to live by NHS values. Here are the NHS Fife ones:
Care and compassion
Dignity and respect
Openness, honesty and responsibility
Quality and teamwork
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Topic Originator: Andrew283
Date: Mon 28 Jul 23:09
She`s a complete melt and the right wing media are loving this as it allows them to push their anti-trans agenda
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Topic Originator: P
Date: Tue 29 Jul 16:52
Yeah you guys are totally right she should therefore be forced to strip next to someone whose genitalia does not match their own - is that how it works? What about the other people who came forward and said they were not comfortable, what happens if they are not awful and no dirt can be found?
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Tue 29 Jul 17:22
Quote:
P, Tue 29 Jul 16:52
Yeah you guys are totally right she should therefore be forced to strip next to someone whose genitalia does not match their own - is that how it works? What about the other people who came forward and said they were not comfortable, what happens if they are not awful and no dirt can be found?
Two completely different matters.
One relates to the changing room rules, which are daft and Peggie was 100% correct to raise.
The second relates to her behaviour. Much of this seems to be a bit "he said, she said" but doesn`t paint a pretty picture of Peggie`s views. She`s publicly stated she "admires" Trump, which in my eyes makes her a bit of a numpty but that`s up to her. It doesn`t affect her ability to practice. What WOULD affect her NMC registration would be if she was found to be true that she made jokes about Pakistanis and threats of putting bacon through the door of the Kirkcaldy mosque.
But these are two separate matters and it feels like NHS Fife failed on the first claim so now they`re being like "Yeah, so she`s not being transphobic BUT did we mention she hates gay people, Catholics, Muslims and Pakistanis?"
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Topic Originator: Back_oh_the_net
Date: Tue 29 Jul 17:53
Quote:
P, Tue 29 Jul 16:52
Yeah you guys are totally right she should therefore be forced to strip next to someone whose genitalia does not match their own - is that how it works? What about the other people who came forward and said they were not comfortable, what happens if they are not awful and no dirt can be found?
So do we just ignore the fact that it looks as if she’s a racist homophobic sectarian bigot then aye?
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Tue 29 Jul 18:46
Surely if the nurse is post op then their genitalia matches? 🤔
The doctor appears to be a full blown racist, bigot, so got zero sympathy if she loses her job.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Tue 29 Jul 19:02
Quote:
Dave_1885, Tue 29 Jul 18:46
Surely if the nurse is post op then their genitalia matches? 🤔
The doctor appears to be a full blown racist, bigot, so got zero sympathy if she loses her job.
The DOCTOR is trans, the NURSE is the alleged racist.
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Tue 29 Jul 19:06
Even if she wins her case on the changing room thing which she will, I’d say the WhatsApp messages I read a wee while ago are grounds for instant dismissal in themself
If she has racial bias and is a nurse treating people of all races, how can she retain her job?
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
Post Edited (Tue 29 Jul 19:07)
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Tue 29 Jul 19:52
Quote:
jake89, Tue 29 Jul 19:02
Quote:
Dave_1885, Tue 29 Jul 18:46
Surely if the nurse is post op then their genitalia matches? 🤔
The doctor appears to be a full blown racist, bigot, so got zero sympathy if she loses her job.
The DOCTOR is trans, the NURSE is the alleged racist.
Apologies 🤦🏻♂️ knew it was one way round or the other…..least thats the bit I mixed up
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Tue 29 Jul 20:09
Quote:
AdamAntsParsStripe, Tue 29 Jul 19:06
Even if she wins her case on the changing room thing which she will, I’d say the WhatsApp messages I read a wee while ago are grounds for instant dismissal in themself
If she has racial bias and is a nurse treating people of all races, how can she retain her job?
Have actual screenshots been made available? I see she has admitted she did make these comments but is suggesting it was banter to shock people. The classic "I was only kidding" defence.
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Topic Originator: Back_oh_the_net
Date: Tue 29 Jul 21:48
Quote:
charlie1, Sat 19 Jul 20:10
Quote:
jake89, Sat 19 Jul 15:14
She`s now attempting to sue the RCN for lack of support. Have to admit my sympathy reduced somewhat when I read she`s a Trump supporting Rangers fan who is reported to have also complained about the smell of Indian food. Now appears to be going down the classic "where there`s blame, there`s a claim" route.
You cannot be more wrong! I know Sandie & she is not like that at all!
With respect mate clearly you don’t know her as well as you think you do
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Tue 29 Jul 21:53
Quote:
jake89, Tue 29 Jul 20:09
Quote:
AdamAntsParsStripe, Tue 29 Jul 19:06
Even if she wins her case on the changing room thing which she will, I’d say the WhatsApp messages I read a wee while ago are grounds for instant dismissal in themself
If she has racial bias and is a nurse treating people of all races, how can she retain her job?
Have actual screenshots been made available? I see she has admitted she did make these comments but is suggesting it was banter to shock people. The classic "I was only kidding" defence.
Yeah they are real and yeah she has went down the route of saying ‘we all called them Pakis’ back in the day but these jokes she posted on WhatsApp went a bit too far.
There were over a dozen
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 30 Jul 08:17
Quote:
AdamAntsParsStripe, Tue 29 Jul 21:53
Quote:
jake89, Tue 29 Jul 20:09
Quote:
AdamAntsParsStripe, Tue 29 Jul 19:06
Even if she wins her case on the changing room thing which she will, I’d say the WhatsApp messages I read a wee while ago are grounds for instant dismissal in themself
If she has racial bias and is a nurse treating people of all races, how can she retain her job?
Have actual screenshots been made available? I see she has admitted she did make these comments but is suggesting it was banter to shock people. The classic "I was only kidding" defence.
Yeah they are real and yeah she has went down the route of saying ‘we all called them Pakis’ back in the day but these jokes she posted on WhatsApp went a bit too far.
There were over a dozen
It`s okay as she`s said she`s not a racist but is scared of Muslims. So scared she wants to go where they pray and put bacon through the letterbox.
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Topic Originator: Andrew283
Date: Wed 30 Jul 08:37
Notice Parboiled and his right wing buddies have gone awfully quiet...
Post Edited (Wed 30 Jul 08:38)
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Topic Originator: Dandy Warhol
Date: Wed 30 Jul 08:48
She has some unsavoury views it would seem, however, is the core issue not wanting to change in front of a biological male?
The spectre of her personal views seems to have come up after the court ruling?
I don`t wanna go down like disco.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 30 Jul 11:30
Quote:
Dandy Warhol, Wed 30 Jul 08:48
She has some unsavoury views it would seem, however, is the core issue not wanting to change in front of a biological male?
The spectre of her personal views seems to have come up after the court ruling?
Exactly this. My understanding is NHS Fife have failed to evidence their suspension around the Trans issue was correct.
It looks like they are now trying to suggest her demands were because she hates trans people rather than being on genuine safety grounds. It`s fairly tenuous as she was suspended due to a complaint by a trans doctor rather than because she`s made comments that are racist, homophobic and bigoted.
This whole thing has become a circus show. Peggie won`t work again. She`ll make some money in the short term appearing on day time TV and in red tops but then what? I completely disagree with her disgusting views but this is something that should have been a conversation in a 1-1 or a warning at most. I hope she doesn`t need her NMC registration validated anytime soon!
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Wed 30 Jul 13:59
Quote:
Back_oh_the_net, Tue 29 Jul 17:53
Quote:
P, Tue 29 Jul 16:52
Yeah you guys are totally right she should therefore be forced to strip next to someone whose genitalia does not match their own - is that how it works? What about the other people who came forward and said they were not comfortable, what happens if they are not awful and no dirt can be found?
So do we just ignore the fact that it looks as if she’s a racist homophobic sectarian bigot then aye?
Just keep listing the slurs. They mean nothing these days. Everyone who disagrees with anything anybody doesn’t like instantly becomes a long list of different things.
I don’t know whether you’re being facetious or not but either way, reading what you wrote doesn’t make you look good
COYP
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Wed 30 Jul 14:05
Quote:
Andrew283, Wed 30 Jul 08:37
Notice Parboiled and his right wing buddies have gone awfully quiet...
Maybe you’re so far left, everyone else looks right wing from your perspective
COYP
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Topic Originator: Dandy Warhol
Date: Wed 30 Jul 14:15
Quote:
Andrew283, Wed 30 Jul 08:37
Notice Parboiled and his right wing buddies have gone awfully quiet...
Taking your obvious virtue signalling out the way, why is it a right wing issue?
It`s about a woman not comfortable changing in front of a man, the rest was bolted on AFTER the court ruling.
I don`t wanna go down like disco.
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Wed 30 Jul 16:46
It`s not unsurprising that many people keep their opinions about an incident or individuals to themselves until after any court proceedings or appeals are completed.
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Thu 31 Jul 10:18
Imagine having to go on social media to put out a message defending your partners mum because NHS Fife have been trying to assassinate her character so they can win a case. Pretty disgusting from NHS Fife
COYP
Post Edited (Thu 31 Jul 10:20)
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 31 Jul 10:32
Some of what`s been discussed in court shouldn`t really have really been made public. Her questionable views are something that should have been discussed by the board and HR rather than made public in a court. I understand it`s about painting a picture that she`s an idiot who likely did make vile comments about the doctor BUT the case is about her objection to a biological male sharing a changing area with women.
As I`ve said, she`ll likely never work again now whereas this could`ve been handled with a simple warning. As much as I think her comments on Muslims are disgraceful, she`s an experienced nurse and appears to be good at her job. If she can do it without displaying the clear prejudices she has, then carry on.
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Thu 31 Jul 14:05
Quote:
jake89, Thu 31 Jul 10:32
Some of what`s been discussed in court shouldn`t really have really been made public. Her questionable views are something that should have been discussed by the board and HR rather than made public in a court. I understand it`s about painting a picture that she`s an idiot who likely did make vile comments about the doctor BUT the case is about her objection to a biological male sharing a changing area with women.
As I`ve said, she`ll likely never work again now whereas this could`ve been handled with a simple warning. As much as I think her comments on Muslims are disgraceful, she`s an experienced nurse and appears to be good at her job. If she can do it without displaying the clear prejudices she has, then carry on.
Honestly, it’s got absolutely nothing to do with HR either. I really don’t think we should be living somewhere that a companies HR has the right to police people’s personal or political views/opinions. Who’d police the views of the HR department?
COYP
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 31 Jul 14:19
I don`t know where you work NMC, but if you work in the NHS you are required to uphold their values. As much as someone is free to have their own values, an organisation is free to release someone who can`t adhere to their own. It`s part of an HR departments role to ensure staff are meeting expected behaviours. As I said, this should`ve been a quiet word rather than a public mud slinging. I`ve worked with people who have made pretty vile "jokes" and always said to them. Not because I want to be "holier than thou" but because I know everyone says things now and again that they haven`t thought through and I don`t want them to repeat it to someone who WOULD go to HR.
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Thu 31 Jul 14:41
Quote:
NMCmassive, Thu 31 Jul 14:05
Quote:
jake89, Thu 31 Jul 10:32
Some of what`s been discussed in court shouldn`t really have really been made public. Her questionable views are something that should have been discussed by the board and HR rather than made public in a court. I understand it`s about painting a picture that she`s an idiot who likely did make vile comments about the doctor BUT the case is about her objection to a biological male sharing a changing area with women.
As I`ve said, she`ll likely never work again now whereas this could`ve been handled with a simple warning. As much as I think her comments on Muslims are disgraceful, she`s an experienced nurse and appears to be good at her job. If she can do it without displaying the clear prejudices she has, then carry on.
Honestly, it’s got absolutely nothing to do with HR either. I really don’t think we should be living somewhere that a companies HR has the right to police people’s personal or political views/opinions. Who’d police the views of the HR department?
I think in nursing such things as HR are vital actually to police prejudice.
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Thu 31 Jul 23:28
Couldn’t disagree with you more.
Who’s going to police the political views of the HR department?
COYP
Post Edited (Fri 01 Aug 05:37)
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 1 Aug 08:08
Quote:
NMCmassive, Thu 31 Jul 23:28
Couldn’t disagree with you more.
Who’s going to police the political views of the HR department?
I don`t know where you work but anywhere I`ve worked has agreed HR policies. It`s all pretty standard stuff. Usually what normal people consider common courtesy that translates to "don`t be a dick".
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Fri 1 Aug 17:27
Quote:
jake89, Fri 1 Aug 08:08
Quote:
NMCmassive, Thu 31 Jul 23:28
Couldn’t disagree with you more.
Who’s going to police the political views of the HR department?
I don`t know where you work but anywhere I`ve worked has agreed HR policies. It`s all pretty standard stuff. Usually what normal people consider common courtesy that translates to "don`t be a dick".
Great, it still doesn’t answer the question. Who would police the political views of the HR departments that you want to investigate everyone else’s personal and political views and opinions?
COYP
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 1 Aug 18:23
Ok, so I don`t know where you work but let`s say you work for NHS Fife.
When you applied for the job you would have been given the details of what the job entails AND all the details on the organisations values. If you were offered the job you would have received a contract. In this contract are links to all the HR policies.
Normally, these policies are written by the HR teams. In reality, they`ve likely been copied from other organisations. What`s to stop them writing something like "no gingers"? Technically nothing, but then that organisation would get hauled up due to things like the Equalities Act (2010). Also, just general common sense.
These HR policies are no different to the security or IT policies, which are also written by the experts. They go through a lot of steps before sign off, usually involving reviews by senior management and potentially a legal professional.
Now, here`s the important bit - given you have access to all these policies, it`s worth reading them so that 1. You understand the expected behaviour of yourself and 2. So you can decide not to work there if you can`t abide by them.
I don`t have access to NHS Fife`s HR policies but their values are:
Care and compassion
Dignity and respect
Openness, honesty and responsibility
Quality and teamwork
So, if I was Sandie Peggie I`d have failed on at least two of these. Under Care and compassion I`ve failed because I think drowning Pakistanis is funny. Under dignity and respect I fail because I refer to a colleague as "it" and "the weirdo", use terms like "paki" and make jokes about posting bacon into a Mosque.
Should she have been suspended though? Absolutely not. As I say, I`m not familiar with NHS Fife`s policies but when I worked in the NHS this would have been a quiet word, then noted with HR if it happened again and then formal action if the behaviour continued.
However, none of these vile comments were part of her suspension as far as I`m aware. She was suspended because a doctor complained of being excluded by her. This also shouldn`t have led to a suspension, nor should it have mattered. This sounds like a simple case of hurt feelings, which has resulted in a court case costing hundreds of thousands of pounds and resulted in two essential medical professionals being sidelined.
I`m not surprised NHS Fife have cocked it up. My experience of dealing with them is they make it up as they go along. Bullying is rife and doesn`t get properly dealt with. Instead of resolving problems they do stupid things like promote the bullies or move the "problem" to another unit. It`s lazy and doesn`t work. This sort of nonsense has gone on for years in NHS Fife.
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Fri 1 Aug 20:00
Good summary, Jake.
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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Topic Originator: Andrew283
Date: Fri 1 Aug 20:55
If a nurse refused to treat you or posted comments about you being a (Probable) White Male you`d probably kick up a stink. Her views are absolutely not in line with the NHS
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Fri 1 Aug 21:51
Quote:
Andrew283, Fri 1 Aug 20:55
If a nurse refused to treat you or posted comments about you being a (Probable) White Male you`d probably kick up a stink. Her views are absolutely not in line with the NHS
It does seem like a personal battle between the two hence why Peggy isn’t suing the NHS but her adversary.
None of them come out of this in any great light as trans issues aren’t black and white
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 1 Aug 22:09
Quote:
AdamAntsParsStripe, Fri 1 Aug 21:51
Quote:
Andrew283, Fri 1 Aug 20:55
If a nurse refused to treat you or posted comments about you being a (Probable) White Male you`d probably kick up a stink. Her views are absolutely not in line with the NHS
It does seem like a personal battle between the two hence why Peggy isn’t suing the NHS but her adversary.
None of them come out of this in any great light as trans issues aren’t black and white
And this is why it`s a bit of a nonsense this is even in court. You have a nurse who felt uncomfortable changing in front of a biological male who complained about it to colleagues. You then have a doctor who was upset that a nurse felt uncomfortable and spoke out about it. Neither side was right or wrong here. You cannot control how you feel. Surely it wouldn`t have been that hard for NHS Fife managers to speak to them both and reach a compromise? It seems it was suggested that Peggie move to QMH. Couldn`t they have simply adapted shift patterns so they weren`t going to be changing at the same time? Or couldn`t they install cubicles?
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sat 2 Aug 04:55
Aye that’s great Jake. I’m sure you enjoyed researching and writing that answer out.
Still doesn’t answer anything though.
In your wee world where HR departments are allowed to police everyone’s personal and political beliefs, who’s going to police the HR departments?
Also, you should look up the Equality Act of 2010. You can do a nice wee essay on that
COYP
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sat 2 Aug 04:57
Quote:
Andrew283, Fri 1 Aug 20:55
If a nurse refused to treat you or posted comments about you being a (Probable) White Male you`d probably kick up a stink. Her views are absolutely not in line with the NHS
Who didn’t she treat?
COYP
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sat 2 Aug 05:01
Quote:
Andrew283, Mon 28 Jul 23:09
She`s a complete melt and the right wing media are loving this as it allows them to push their anti-trans agenda
I’m wondering if this statement is inline with your employers HR policies? 😂😂😂
COYP
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sat 2 Aug 08:50
NMC, what would your alternative be to HR policies? What field of work are you in? Self employed?
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sat 2 Aug 10:33
Jake, my work has got absolutely nothing to do with you. Thank god!
I really dont understand how you can think HR departments policing political beliefs are a good thing.
Thankfully we’ve got the equality act 2010.
COYP
Post Edited (Sat 02 Aug 10:33)
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sat 2 Aug 11:03
Quote:
NMCmassive, Sat 2 Aug 10:33
Jake, my work has got absolutely nothing to do with you. Thank god!
I really dont understand how you can think HR departments policing political beliefs are a good thing.
Thankfully we’ve got the equality act 2010.
The Equality Act is what a lot of those policies are based off.
Can you explain why you think political beliefs are being policed? Which ones? Unless you work for the civil service you are free to express your political beliefs outside of work as much as you please. Though worth noting that laughing at drowned Pakistanis and saying you want to post bacon through a mosque door isn`t a political belief.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sat 2 Aug 11:05
NCM, the equalities act isn`t going to protect anyone from HR if you make racist comments in the workplace. Jake is saying that Peggie`s, at best offensive comments, are a separate issue and really have nothing to do with the tribunal. I disagree with Jake when he suggests that HR could have taken both parties aside and reached a common sense compromise. I suspect both sides were absolutely convinced by the righteousness of their opinion and weren`t going to retreat even one inch. The whole issue was always going to have to be redressed this way.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sat 2 Aug 11:15
You may well be right, TOWK. I experienced something similar but not as extreme as this and it ended that the two people were able to work in the same team but usually on different things. There was no aim to change either views but they had to work together without being rude or abusive to each other. You`re probably right that in this case they refused to budge an inch.
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Sat 2 Aug 12:22
Anyone that thinks its ok to have a public facing job, paid for by the publics taxes, and says they laugh at drowned Pakistanis and wants to post bacon through the letterbox of a Mosque really needs to give their heads a wobble.
This is what this country is now heading towards, a country where racism and bigotry is allowed to be out in the open with zero consequences.
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Topic Originator: Andrew283
Date: Sat 2 Aug 17:31
Quote:
Dave_1885, Sat 2 Aug 12:22
Anyone that thinks its ok to have a public facing job, paid for by the publics taxes, and says they laugh at drowned Pakistanis and wants to post bacon through the letterbox of a Mosque really needs to give their heads a wobble.
This is what this country is now heading towards, a country where racism and bigotry is allowed to be out in the open with zero consequences.
Great post
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Topic Originator: DBA
Date: Sun 3 Aug 00:11
Quote:
NMCmassive, Sat 2 Aug 10:33
Jake, my work has got absolutely nothing to do with you. Thank god!
I really dont understand how you can think HR departments policing political beliefs are a good thing.
Thankfully we’ve got the equality act 2010.
You`re having a nightmare here. Time to back out as you`re clearly out of your depth.
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Topic Originator: Back_oh_the_net
Date: Sun 3 Aug 00:34
Quote:
NMCmassive, Sat 2 Aug 10:33
Jake, my work has got absolutely nothing to do with you. Thank god!
I really dont understand how you can think HR departments policing political beliefs are a good thing.
Thankfully we’ve got the equality act 2010.
Are you related to sandie peggie? Or is it more a case of you share the same views as her which would in turn make you a racist homophobic bigot as well? Do you honestly think someone with her views is best placed to provide the level of care expected to anyone in the groups she has discriminated against?
Post Edited (Sun 03 Aug 00:35)
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Mon 4 Aug 14:26
I partly take back what I said about NHS Fife. It seems they DID try and keep them apart but it resulted in "chaos".
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Wed 6 Aug 11:31
Quote:
Back_oh_the_net, Sun 3 Aug 00:34
Quote:
NMCmassive, Sat 2 Aug 10:33
Jake, my work has got absolutely nothing to do with you. Thank god!
I really dont understand how you can think HR departments policing political beliefs are a good thing.
Thankfully we’ve got the equality act 2010.
Are you related to sandie peggie? Or is it more a case of you share the same views as her which would in turn make you a racist homophobic bigot as well? Do you honestly think someone with her views is best placed to provide the level of care expected to anyone in the groups she has discriminated against?
Great argument mate. It was never going to be long until someone pulls out the you must be a racist card 😂
I don’t think HR should be involved with someone’s personal or political views for the same reasons I don’t think a government should dictate what people are allowed to say. Having HR police peoples opinions is just another way to be told what to say and how to think.
COYP
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Wed 6 Aug 11:31
Quote:
DBA, Sun 3 Aug 00:11
Quote:
NMCmassive, Sat 2 Aug 10:33
Jake, my work has got absolutely nothing to do with you. Thank god!
I really dont understand how you can think HR departments policing political beliefs are a good thing.
Thankfully we’ve got the equality act 2010.
You`re having a nightmare here. Time to back out as you`re clearly out of your depth.
If you can explain feel free
COYP
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Wed 6 Aug 11:37
Quote:
jake89, Sat 2 Aug 11:03
Quote:
NMCmassive, Sat 2 Aug 10:33
Jake, my work has got absolutely nothing to do with you. Thank god!
I really dont understand how you can think HR departments policing political beliefs are a good thing.
Thankfully we’ve got the equality act 2010.
The Equality Act is what a lot of those policies are based off.
Can you explain why you think political beliefs are being policed? Which ones? Unless you work for the civil service you are free to express your political beliefs outside of work as much as you please. Though worth noting that laughing at drowned Pakistanis and saying you want to post bacon through a mosque door isn`t a political belief.
I’m not saying political beliefs are being policed by HR. I’m saying they shouldn’t be policed by HR.
COYP
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 6 Aug 13:57
Quote:
NMCmassive, Wed 6 Aug 11:37
Quote:
jake89, Sat 2 Aug 11:03
Quote:
NMCmassive, Sat 2 Aug 10:33
Jake, my work has got absolutely nothing to do with you. Thank god!
I really dont understand how you can think HR departments policing political beliefs are a good thing.
Thankfully we’ve got the equality act 2010.
The Equality Act is what a lot of those policies are based off.
Can you explain why you think political beliefs are being policed? Which ones? Unless you work for the civil service you are free to express your political beliefs outside of work as much as you please. Though worth noting that laughing at drowned Pakistanis and saying you want to post bacon through a mosque door isn`t a political belief.
I’m not saying political beliefs are being policed by HR. I’m saying they shouldn’t be policed by HR.
But they`re not so...
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Wed 6 Aug 15:08
Personal beliefs are one thing which you keep to yourself or even trusted friends but when racist jokes or comments are posted online or on group chats, then you are digging your own grave.
She is a nurse let’s not forget that.
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Wed 6 Aug 15:19
Quote:
jake89, Wed 6 Aug 13:57
Quote:
NMCmassive, Wed 6 Aug 11:37
Quote:
jake89, Sat 2 Aug 11:03
Quote:
NMCmassive, Sat 2 Aug 10:33
Jake, my work has got absolutely nothing to do with you. Thank god!
I really dont understand how you can think HR departments policing political beliefs are a good thing.
Thankfully we’ve got the equality act 2010.
The Equality Act is what a lot of those policies are based off.
Can you explain why you think political beliefs are being policed? Which ones? Unless you work for the civil service you are free to express your political beliefs outside of work as much as you please. Though worth noting that laughing at drowned Pakistanis and saying you want to post bacon through a mosque door isn`t a political belief.
I’m not saying political beliefs are being policed by HR. I’m saying they shouldn’t be policed by HR.
But they`re not so...
So why do you and your fellow posters argue that they shouldn’t be?
COYP
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 6 Aug 16:23
No-one argued anything. Your posts appeared to suggest HR policies constitute policing personal belief and opinion. They don`t unless you are very vocal about those beliefs and opinions and they happen to be considered concerning. Of course, whether or not an opinion is of concern is subjective but it`s fair to say making jokes about drowning Pakistanis etc IS of concern, particularly when shared on social media and you work in a customer (patient) facing role in an organisation that has values about respect.
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Wed 6 Aug 17:11
Quote:
jake89, Wed 6 Aug 16:23
No-one argued anything. Your posts appeared to suggest HR policies constitute policing personal belief and opinion. They don`t unless you are very vocal about those beliefs and opinions and they happen to be considered concerning. Of course, whether or not an opinion is of concern is subjective but it`s fair to say making jokes about drowning Pakistanis etc IS of concern, particularly when shared on social media and you work in a customer (patient) facing role in an organisation that has values about respect.
That is the bottom line of it all.
These comments are out there for people to see and I suppose the simplest way to describe it is this.
If you worked in nursing, would YOU type racist jokes in a group chat that could be discovered later on or would you keep them to yourself.
Unlike many other professions nursing is supposed to care for everyone regardless of colour, religion or in times of war ‘the enemy’
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Wed 6 Aug 17:40
But according to certain politicians What`s app messages disappear from phones!🤣🤣🤣
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Wed 6 Aug 20:09
I haven`t seen the messages, I don`t know the context of the messages so can`t make comment on the specifics...
what I will say is that issue a (changing in front of a man) is separate from issue b (questionable tweets) and shouldn`t have any relevance
what I will say is that context and intent is king over the words themselves... I`m sure if you trawled through my WhatsApp, or had taped every conversation I`ve had in over drinks with mates over the last twenty years, you could pull up things I`ve said or laughed at, out of context, that in isolation would paint me in a different light - and I`m sure that is true of everyone reading this.
PS - HR absolutely police thoughts and political views... I`ll give you a quick example - if my hr found out my view on outsourcing technical engineering roles to India, that I don`t believe the quality/quantity of the work that in my experience Indian dev teams produce are worth the (not that big) costs savings (I currently manage two different Indian dev teams BTW and have talked to many others in similar positions) and that I`m not happy we`re sending money over to a country that is in direct opposition to our financial systems (BRICS) and highlight that they are good pals with Russia/China/Iran etc, I would have HR repercussions
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Topic Originator: P
Date: Wed 6 Aug 20:10
Quote:
LochgellyAlbert, Wed 6 Aug 17:40
But according to certain politicians What`s app messages disappear from phones!🤣🤣🤣
I have WhatsApp set up to automatically delete messages that are 7 days old unless they are marked saved as it saves me bothering to clear out threads myself (I had 15GB in WhatsApp alone) so yes they do disappear sometimes - not sure the relevance though 🤷🏻♂️
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 6 Aug 20:52
P, you might want to check it deletes your messages from other people`s phones too.
DBP, report to HR at 9am tomorrow morning. Room 101 for you!
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Topic Originator: Paralex
Date: Thu 7 Aug 15:47
One thing I`ve noticed is that putting the suffix "phobic" after a word seems to be designed to shut down any original thought or rational opinion on a subject. Perhaps the totalitarian state is alive and well in this Great Britain we live in. Alive and well in our national churches too, it seems. I`m so glad we have some more courageous souls than me, willing to rock that particular boat.
Post Edited (Thu 07 Aug 15:50)
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Topic Originator: P
Date: Thu 7 Aug 18:58
Quote:
jake89, Wed 6 Aug 20:52
P, you might want to check it deletes your messages from other people`s phones too.
DBP, report to HR at 9am tomorrow morning. Room 101 for you!
It does, it deletes from both sender and recipient but either party can switch it off obviously.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 7 Aug 19:28
"Phobic" is a weird one, Paralex. It suggests "scared of".
The reality with most "phobias" is there`s a distinction between hating someone because they`re trans/gay/black/brown and hating someone who happens to be trans/gay/black/brown. For example, I`m not a fan of Ian Wright. It`s not because he`s English or black, it`s because his commentary is annoying! It`s all about the context.
It`s just my view, but a minority ruin things for everyone. Most people just want to get on with their lives but some people just want to be offended by everything. The latest is the American Eagle advert where they`re making Nazi claims. It`s absurd. Anyone with half a brain gets the genes/jeans joke.
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Topic Originator: Paralex
Date: Thu 7 Aug 21:48
Yes jake89, the meaning has changed from scared of, to malevolent towards, or even, criminally malevolent towards, and has become a war cry of many who consider their fiercely held opinions, may in fact, not be as universally acceptable as they thought.
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Fri 8 Aug 02:43
Quote:
jake89, Wed 6 Aug 16:23
No-one argued anything. Your posts appeared to suggest HR policies constitute policing personal belief and opinion. They don`t unless you are very vocal about those beliefs and opinions and they happen to be considered concerning. Of course, whether or not an opinion is of concern is subjective but it`s fair to say making jokes about drowning Pakistanis etc IS of concern, particularly when shared on social media and you work in a customer (patient) facing role in an organisation that has values about respect.
I don’t think typing something onto a private group chat with friends is being vocal never mind “very” vocal. I don’t know why you’d portray it like she’s put it out onto an open forum for the world to see? That’s extremely disingenuous of you, almost dishonest. Almost like you’d rather twist things to win an argument rather than be truthful 🤷🏻♂️
All I said was an HR department should have nothing to do with someone’s personal and political beliefs and you’ve went off on one 😂
COYP
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Fri 8 Aug 02:50
And btw, you still haven’t attempted to answer my question about who would police the HR departments.
COYP
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 8 Aug 03:11
Quote:
NMCmassive, Fri 8 Aug 02:50
And btw, you still haven’t attempted to answer my question about who would police the HR departments.
I did. Gov policy like the disability act informs local policy. So policed by government if needed, which is what Peggie is doing.
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Fri 8 Aug 11:10
Quote:
jake89, Fri 8 Aug 03:11
Quote:
NMCmassive, Fri 8 Aug 02:50
And btw, you still haven’t attempted to answer my question about who would police the HR departments.
I did. Gov policy like the disability act informs local policy. So policed by government if needed, which is what Peggie is doing.
I`ve worked with more than one HR MD who has said "there`s always a way around it" when it comes to complying with certain aspects of the law. The sad fact is that the relationship is so imbalanced that the lack of knowledge, cost of dealing with any legal issues and the stress of any David vs Goliath proceedings means that the main tendency will be for individuals to walk away from situations like that given the downside impact of any loss.
And of course, as soon as anything gets to a point where it`s indefensible then an NDA is shoved on any settlement that`s put in place.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 8 Aug 11:58
Almost every position can abuse their power. HR is harder to do but I`ve seen it done...and at NHS Fife! There`s things that have gone in NHS Fife even worse than is being reported in the Peggie case.
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