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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Sun 2 Nov 12:06
As horrific and appalling as these senseless stabbings are, I can not understand the logic of the police in revealing the ethnic origin and skin colour of the two British nationals who carried out this vile attack.
Is this information not likely to increase racial tensions up and down the land and give some individuals the excuse they need to vent their anger on some innocent ethnic minority groups. Surely, the time to make this public is when/if these evil individuals are found guilty in a court of law.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Sun 2 Nov 12:09
It’s all done to rile up hatred GG. Got to keep it going…..
The confusing thing is saying it’s not terror related - if its not terror related then surely they know the motivation already and can release that?
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Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par
Date: Sun 2 Nov 12:40
Yeah....gaslight the public, that will work.
A significant portion of the anger over the Southport slaughter was the whole "Welsh choirboy" narrative.
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Topic Originator: Milos Drizzle
Date: Sun 2 Nov 12:40
Should be consistency across all alleged crimes. Anonymous until proven guilty. Never understood why they come out with things like “57 year old white male has been arrested” etc. Either it’s full identification or none, and the latter feels a better approach to me.
This is my signature
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sun 2 Nov 12:44
Is the police revealing that they are British also not right until the trial?
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Sun 2 Nov 12:49
The funny thing is the racists that jumped on it right away saying “they cane on the boats, they are doctors and carers” etc etc then jump on it going “oh bet they don’t have a british name” - so either way, they will push their narrative to the end to make it all about immigration.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 2 Nov 12:58
There will be race riots soon. I hate to say it, but most people whether they`re white, black or brown just want to get on with their lives. There is a small minority of idiots of ALL skin colours intent on causing bother and inciting hatred.
The government isn`t helping with some of these bonkers decisions around housing asylum seekers too.
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Topic Originator: pars4life1
Date: Sun 2 Nov 13:01
The rapid spread of misinformation contributed to Southport and I think the police felt once the revealed the identity of the attacker that helped quiet things down.
Since then they have typically tried to reveal something to kill off the misinformation at major incidents. I`m not sure that`s the right strategy as it will only take a perpetrator to meet the right profile of whoever the perceived greater enemy is. And if the police don`t reveal a particular person they will be perceived as protecting them.
The police have dug themselves a bit of a hole with this approach IMO and I`m not even sure they are right in the presumption that it helped in Southport, riots have a natural point when they simmer out and I think it was more coincidental that Southport simmered out around the time info was released rather than it being a continuation to it
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Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par
Date: Sun 2 Nov 13:24
They are trying to stop certain elements jumping to conclusions and blaming migrants, Muslims and/or asylum seekers, and pointing to police silence as ‘evidence’.
By giving ‘some’ details, they can hopefully avoid the accusations of protecting/hiding actions of above groups and avoid further riots, whilst not identifying them directly.
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Sun 2 Nov 13:50
I`m sure many of us saw folk on social media inferring that this was due to foreigners.
As other posters have said, this is the new approach due to the previous approach (letting the legal process take the lead) being a key factor in all the troubles following the Southport incident.
I think whatever the powers that be do we`re screwed.... the issue is social media and an abundance of stupid people. If these people wanted to fill a vacuum, I really do wish they spent the time educating themselves and fill the one in their head.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sun 2 Nov 14:03
In the absence of information people will fill the void with their own thoughts. Some will do so knowingly in a malicious manner.
Police saying that there is nothing to suggest it is terrorism related but two evil scumbags (sorry I`m just speculating with that description) teaming up to try and stab to death as many people as they could manage while in an enclosed box can surely only be that. It certainly suggests a degree of forethought but there I am speculating again.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Sun 2 Nov 15:24
Quote:
Luxembourg Par, Sun 2 Nov 13:24
They are trying to stop certain elements jumping to conclusions and blaming migrants, Muslims and/or asylum seekers, and pointing to police silence as ‘evidence’.
By giving ‘some’ details, they can hopefully avoid the accusations of protecting/hiding actions of above groups and avoid further riots, whilst not identifying them directly.
As plausible as your explanation for the police`s strategy is, Lux, the problem is that the "Britain First" brigade regard those from ethnic minorities as foreigners, irrespective of whether they were born in this country or not. Nor are they likely to distinguish between those who are Muslims and those who aren`t by considering whether they`re roots are Asian, African or Caribbean.
I know a well-educated man who voted for Brexit. When I asked him why, he replied that there were too many Muslims here. 🙄
Not your average Sunday League player.
Post Edited (Sun 02 Nov 15:25)
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Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par
Date: Sun 2 Nov 15:37
11 people viciously stabbed and his first go to worry is the "Britain First Brigade" and their possible ethno nationalism.
The first post on here regarding the Southport murders was someone complaining that people were jumping to conclusions about the religion of the perpetrator.
As soon as one of these incidents occur the first reactions of some people and the narrative they wish to espouse is very interesting.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 2 Nov 16:24
It used to be the Irish, then black people and now Muslims. There are bad people in every race and religion. Unfortunately, some are worse than others resulting in tarring of entire communities. If someone does something wrong, it should be dealt with. Equally, those just trying to live their lives should be left to it.
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Sun 2 Nov 16:50
I just watched a news report where the whole thing was centred arount the ethnicity of the perpetrators, with only a pasisng mention of the victims at the end,which sums up how irrational this country`s priorities are right now.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par
Date: Sun 2 Nov 18:28
Quote:
I just watched a news report where the whole thing was centred arount the ethnicity of the perpetrators
Really?
What channel and time?
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Sun 2 Nov 19:17
Quote:
Bletchley_Par, Sun 2 Nov 15:37
11 people viciously stabbed and his first go to worry is the "Britain First Brigade" and their possible ethno nationalism.
The first post on here regarding the Southport murders was someone complaining that people were jumping to conclusions about the religion of the perpetrator.
As soon as one of these incidents occur the first reactions of some people and the narrative they wish to espouse is very interesting.
Perhaps you believe that those responsible for attacking the Muslim community were liberal lefties, Bletchley?
I see that one of the two men arrested has now been released, as the police are satisfied that he was not involved.
I appreciate that the police acted in good faith when they released details relating to the man arrested, but I think it was misguided. Imagine, for the sake of argument, that only one of the men arrested had been black. This could easily have provoked a vigilante reaction against the black community, only for the black man to be subsequently released......
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par
Date: Sun 2 Nov 19:32
Quote:
Topic Originator: GG Riva like
Date: Sun 2 Nov 19:17
Quote:
Bletchley_Par, Sun 2 Nov 15:37
Perhaps you believe that those responsible for attacking the Muslim community were liberal lefties, Bletchley?
What attacks? The 2 recent mosque attacks that disapeered from the news once it was discovered the arsonists were both Asian?
Quote:
I appreciate that the police acted in good faith when they released details relating to the man arrested, but I think it was misguided. Imagine, for the sake of argument, that only one of the men arrested had been black. This could easily have provoked a vigilante reaction against the black community, only for the black man to be subsequently released......
I genuinely don`t know if you are being ridiculous on purpose or not.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sun 2 Nov 19:38
If it is just the one perpetrator then it changes things. Will probably just have to be put down to the actions of deranged lunatic in the same bracket as Thomas Hamilton, Derrick Bird and Michael Ryan.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Sun 2 Nov 20:07
Really?
What channel and time?
Ooft, somebody`s extra rude today. Just barking orders now without so much as an attempt at a please, huh?
I believe it was a Guardian video report on Youtube.
You`re welcome.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: Tad Allagash
Date: Mon 3 Nov 00:30
When a car ploughed into a crowd of Liverpool fans back in May, the ethnicity of the suspect was quickly released. So a precedent has been set.
If a suspect were at large then obviously they would have to release a physical description, but even when the suspect is in custody, they presumably want witnesses to come forward to piece together the movements of the suspect.
Post Edited (Mon 03 Nov 09:41)
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Mon 3 Nov 09:17
Named as Anthony Williams……not quite the name the masses were begging for on socials.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Mon 3 Nov 11:41
Quote:
Dave_1885, Mon 3 Nov 09:17
Named as Anthony Williams……not quite the name the masses were begging for on socials.
Exactly, Dave. And if the police hadn`t disclosed his ethnic roots, people would not have been able to conclude that he is almost certainly black. That should be irrelevant, of course, but sadly, for some of our citizens, it is.
Posters like Bletchley Par, who refuse to accept that shocking incidents like this can lead the hard-of-thinking in our society to take the law into their own hands, are in denial. You only have to seek the views of our Jewish communities. Anti-Semitic behaviour in this country has increased dramatically since the start of the Gaza war. While I understand it, what does that have to do with the peaceful, law abiding Jews living in Britain?
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: Tad Allagash
Date: Mon 3 Nov 12:14
‘And if the police hadn`t disclosed his ethnic roots, people would not have been able to conclude that he is almost certainly black.‘
Well, they might’ve figured that out from the video footage of the suspect at Huntingdon station.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Mon 3 Nov 12:51
Quote:
Tad Allagash, Mon 3 Nov 12:14
‘And if the police hadn`t disclosed his ethnic roots, people would not have been able to conclude that he is almost certainly black.‘
Well, they might’ve figured that out from the video footage of the suspect at Huntingdon station.
I thought he WAS black? Not that it`s really relevant. The guy needs served justice regardless of skin colour.
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Mon 3 Nov 13:21
Quote:
jake89, Mon 3 Nov 12:51
Quote:
Tad Allagash, Mon 3 Nov 12:14
‘And if the police hadn`t disclosed his ethnic roots, people would not have been able to conclude that he is almost certainly black.‘
Well, they might’ve figured that out from the video footage of the suspect at Huntingdon station.
I thought he WAS black? Not that it`s really relevant. The guy needs served justice regardless of skin colour.
I think it likely he still is black Jake.
I can see why they released this info. The London Underground worker who saw a man on the platform who then may have quickly appeared in the car park described him as black. Pictures were shared too.
I`m less bothered about this being shared, I`m more bothered about a situation where it cannot be shared for operational reasons as folk will now have been conditioned into getting this info, and if it`s not provided for good reason then they will fill the void with claiming that it is the deep state in action when it is nothing of the sort.
The Home Secretary (and the previous one) has been quite clear that this is how she wants these matters dealt with. I`m sure it wasn`t a straightforward decision and if it had gone the other way there would have been many dissenting voices in the other direction (and a lot of evidence that it actually caused real world issues).
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Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par
Date: Mon 3 Nov 16:06
Quote:
Topic Originator: GG Riva like
Date: Mon 3 Nov 11:41
Quote:
Dave_1885, Mon 3 Nov 09:17
Named as Anthony Williams……not quite the name the masses were begging for on socials.
Exactly, Dave. And if the police hadn`t disclosed his ethnic roots, people would not have been able to conclude that he is almost certainly black. That should be irrelevant, of course, but sadly, for some of our citizens, it is.
Posters like Bletchley Par, who refuse to accept that shocking incidents like this can lead the hard-of-thinking in our society to take the law into their own hands, are in denial.
Hard of thinking...
Your current stance is the police should not have described the ethnicity in case the other guy who was arrested was white (he was black) and if it was the white guy (who is black) who did it, the black guy (who did do it) getting his ethnicity named might cause black people to be subject to "something" even though the perpetrator was white (he was black).
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Mon 3 Nov 16:32
Ultimately the guy was British and was obviously having a severe psychotic episode. He`ll be spending the next few decades in a secure facility.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Mon 3 Nov 16:35
^^^^ Wow! You haven`t half tied yourself in knots ther, BP. 😁
FWIW, Britain isn`t alone in revealing the ethnicity/nationality of suspected criminals. I follow Italian news on national TV and various channels are quick to find out and inform viewers that the suspects are Albanian, Bulgarian, Romanian etc. If they`re from Northern Africa they`re usually described as "Morrocan" even if they`re Algerian, Tunisian, etc. Those from sub Saharan Africa are "African" or "black." I`ve heard first hand the anger such information arouses among the native population when I`m there on holiday.
Racism is alive and well in Italy, too.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Mon 3 Nov 16:36
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Mon 3 Nov 16:32
Ultimately the guy was British and was obviously having a severe psychotic episode. He`ll be spending the next few decades in a secure facility.
Reports of 2 other attacks before this one the same day. That, again, doesn’t suit the narrative for some people though and his ancestors that crossed on a boat are to blame - supposedly.
Got to feel for the victims in this as well - most will be completely forgotten about by next week, but folk will still talk about the attacker. Fair play to the LNER staff member still in hospital, deserves a bravery medal.
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